Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Faith Sharing Area => Topic started by: Anchorman on July 05, 2015, 10:46:15 PM
-
I've recently been forced to assess my 'walk' with God.
Several things happened to make me pray very seriously about where God wants me to be, and what He wants me to do - a kind of 'wilderness experience'. if you like' a time out spent in delving into this relationship with God thing.
At the start of the process, I was genuinely unsure about a 'call' to a specific task...now I'm certain that call was genuine.
One of the great things about this kind of journey is that God challenges the traveller, and each challenge strengthens the call.
Obstacles and objections I threw in to put off a decision turned into stepping stones, rather than stumbling blocks.
Just like Isaiah, I answered "Here I am - Send me".
Anyone else felt something similar?
-
I've recently been forced to assess my 'walk' with God.
Several things happened to make me pray very seriously about where God wants me to be, and what He wants me to do - a kind of 'wilderness experience'. if you like' a time out spent in delving into this relationship with God thing.
At the start of the process, I was genuinely unsure about a 'call' to a specific task...now I'm certain that call was genuine.
One of the great things about this kind of journey is that God challenges the traveller, and each challenge strengthens the call.
Obstacles and objections I threw in to put off a decision turned into stepping stones, rather than stumbling blocks.
Just like Isaiah, I answered "Here I am - Send me".
Anyone else felt something similar?
I had an "experience," many years ago, which has had a profound effect on me.
-
I've had a few such encounters over the years, BA several as a result of 'seeking' guidance, others absolutely not - but looking back, they changed or affected choices I needed to make.
Each and every one was a life-affirming, ennervating and itensely moving experience, and strengthened my need to know more about this God I claimed to belong to.
When I started off in my new life, I was a Bible-quoter with the best of 'em...I must have bored the pants off anyone unfortunate enough to listen.
Don't get me wrong here - I still accept Scripture as the bedrock of my faith, and can drop in a verse at any opportunity. But I think I'm with the Psalmists when they said "Wait on the LORD...."
Listen for Him.
Spend time in thinking, praying, walking, talking with Him.
I think those times are as profound as any hermeneutics, systematic theology or exegetical analytics lecture I've been unfortunate to stay awake long enough to listen to.
-
I've had a few such encounters over the years, BA several as a result of 'seeking' guidance, others absolutely not - but looking back, they changed or affected choices I needed to make.
Each and every one was a life-affirming, ennervating and itensely moving experience, and strengthened my need to know more about this God I claimed to belong to.
I experienced, and experience, exactly those sensations.
-
I've recently been forced to assess my 'walk' with God.
Several things happened to make me pray very seriously about where God wants me to be, and what He wants me to do - a kind of 'wilderness experience'. if you like' a time out spent in delving into this relationship with God thing.
At the start of the process, I was genuinely unsure about a 'call' to a specific task...now I'm certain that call was genuine.
One of the great things about this kind of journey is that God challenges the traveller, and each challenge strengthens the call.
Obstacles and objections I threw in to put off a decision turned into stepping stones, rather than stumbling blocks.
Just like Isaiah, I answered "Here I am - Send me".
Anyone else felt something similar?
My walks with God force to assess my daily living...
It forces me to walk in his word rather than in the flesh...
I believe that if we walk by faith then we know God guides our steps as is best for us.
Sometimes you have to watch out in case your assessing is really you becoming complacent in your walk and learning for something new...
40 years he kept their prize away from them in the wilderness because of their disobedience. But today, Jesus Christ has come the relevance of the OT has been made known. Sometimes it is about correcting your walk and making sure it is Gods will you are walking in, and not your own.
-
Dear Jim,
Are you thinking about wearing a dog collar, I know your Church is having a recruitment drive at the moment.
Gonnagle.
-
Dear Jim,
Are you thinking about wearing a dog collar, I know your Church is having a recruitment drive at the moment.
Gonnagle.
He isn't ready for that calling.... because he cannot accept that the truth of God in man is about a change in life and not about knowledge possessed which is not scriptural....
-
Dear Jim,
Are you thinking about wearing a dog collar, I know your Church is having a recruitment drive at the moment.
Gonnagle.
-
Bingo......sort of. Gonners!
As you know, I trained as a reader type in the CofS.
I put my name forward for selection as a candidate for the Ordained Local Ministry - what used to be called Auxilliary ministry; that's a minister who does everything a 'full' minister does without a stipend or the commitment of being a parish minister (besides, I'm now officially too old to train for that...don't say it - I'm past it).
Dunno about the dog collar bit.
If I'm ordained eventually, I'll be able to wear one, I suppose...but that's not me - I don't have fleas!
-
Dear Jim,
Are you thinking about wearing a dog collar, I know your Church is having a recruitment drive at the moment.
Gonnagle.
He isn't ready for that calling.... because he cannot accept that the truth of God in man is about a change in life and not about knowledge possessed which is not scriptural....
-
I was blissfully in ignorance as to your qualifications for assessor, Sass.
Fortunately those who have such qualifications were of a differing opinion, and my studies start in September.
Thanks for the encouragement, though.
-
Dear Jim,
To old!! Anyway old son, Our Lord has chosen wisely, the Church of Scotland is in great hands and be assured I will have a quiet word that he strengthens your Ministry.
Gonnagle.
-
Dear Jim,
Are you thinking about wearing a dog collar, I know your Church is having a recruitment drive at the moment.
Gonnagle.
He isn't ready for that calling.... because he cannot accept that the truth of God in man is about a change in life and not about knowledge possessed which is not scriptural....
-
I was blissfully in ignorance as to your qualifications for assessor, Sass.
Fortunately those who have such qualifications were of a differing opinion, and my studies start in September.
Thanks for the encouragement, though.
I see you rely on men and not God for assessor?
The truth is they don't see your posts here or attacks on others.
Either way... you are not right for the ministry. I have spent my life around people who were and you are not ministry material.
You know what they say... Men may make their decisions but God decides the final outcome....
Serving God or serving man and money? You wait till you find that it isn't all about the stipend or the preaching... I have seen good men of God who have relished in the full work of being a preacher..
The hospital visiting.. the home visiting.. the getting up in the middle of the night to help their parishoners... Believe me.. you haven't thought it through... and it could not happen to a nicer person... Be careful what you seek because it isn't a bed of roses it is really hard work .... as you will find out if you make it...
Good job, I am here to remind you what it really means to Serve God in the community...
-
Dear Sass,
Away and bile yer heid >:(
Gonnagle.
-
Dear Jim,
To old!! Anyway old son, Our Lord has chosen wisely, the Church of Scotland is in great hands and be assured I will have a quiet word that he strengthens your Ministry.
Gonnagle.
_
God's choices are always wise, Gonners....but I suspect that, in calling me, His sense of humour's in overdrive.....
-
Dear Sass,
Away and bile yer heid >:(
Gonnagle.
It isn't bile it is fact...
He is not thinking of the reality of serving God and his people.
It is about the prestige and the other things which go with it.
But the reality is the hard work behind which becomes a 24 hour job and 7 days a week.
Because serving God is about leaving yourself behind.
His judgement of others here show he is not ready for the ministry.
Just as my outspokeness would render me not ready for a ministry and many people who actually know me have suggested it over the years.
It is knowing about what we are good at and where we can best serve God.
Bile has no place in this and I know Anchorman knows this has to be said... Because once in the ministry you cannot say to God... " You never warned me".
Sometimes callings are about doing the things and saying the things no one wants to hear.
They killed the Prophets for speaking Gods truth... They too thought it bile but clearly God is not limited to speaking only the good things men do. He sends people to tell it as it is...
But they judge the person rather than weighing the words for their truth.
God corrects those whom he loves... He does not pretend he tells people. It makes those who tell them unpopular.. And you? Would you hold their coats whilst they stoned me?
-
Dear Jim,
Are you thinking about wearing a dog collar, I know your Church is having a recruitment drive at the moment.
Gonnagle.
He isn't ready for that calling.... because he cannot accept that the truth of God in man is about a change in life and not about knowledge possessed which is not scriptural....
-
I was blissfully in ignorance as to your qualifications for assessor, Sass.
Fortunately those who have such qualifications were of a differing opinion, and my studies start in September.
Thanks for the encouragement, though.
I see you rely on men and not God for assessor?
The truth is they don't see your posts here or attacks on others.
Either way... you are not right for the ministry. I have spent my life around people who were and you are not ministry material.
You know what they say... Men may make their decisions but God decides the final outcome....
Serving God or serving man and money? You wait till you find that it isn't all about the stipend or the preaching... I have seen good men of God who have relished in the full work of being a preacher..
The hospital visiting.. the home visiting.. the getting up in the middle of the night to help their parishoners... Believe me.. you haven't thought it through... and it could not happen to a nicer person... Be careful what you seek because it isn't a bed of roses it is really hard work .... as you will find out if you make it...
Good job, I am here to remind you what it really means to Serve God in the community...
=
Again, Sass, and with respect, I must correct you.
The candidate for any ordained ministry in the CofS undergo rigorous testing of their calling before their names are put before the assessors.
These tests include attending enquirerer's conferences, 1-1 interviews, counselling sessions, reports from various sources within the candidate's own church and Presbytery.
The assesors consist of a professor of New Testament Studies, two parish ministers (one of whom is a past moderator of the General Assembly) and two elders, one of whom is a lecturer in English at Stirling University.
After several sessions with them in which, as a matter of fact, I DID disclose my membership of this forum, they approved my candidacy.
Again, I am amazed that you have hidden your skills as an assessor so well.
-
Dear Jim,
I apologise for my outburst on your thread, some posters on here can drive the patience of a saint.
Gonnagle.
-
Dear Jim,
I apologise for my outburst on your thread, some posters on here can drive the patience of a saint.
Gonnagle.
-
Wot outburst?
As I recall, Jesus wasn't exactly meek and mild, regardless of what that blasted hymn says!
Anyhow, most of His Apostles were a pretty contentious, carnaptious (guid Scots word, that) crew on the whole.
Argumentative, prone to putting their feet in it up to their armpits, getting things wrong...human, in fact - the way Christ chose them, before moulding them, gradually into the men and women they became.
That didn't stop them being a bunch of obdurate twits sometines.
Maybe that's one of the reasons God loves us....
-
Dear Jim,
Are you thinking about wearing a dog collar, I know your Church is having a recruitment drive at the moment.
Gonnagle.
He isn't ready for that calling.... because he cannot accept that the truth of God in man is about a change in life and not about knowledge possessed which is not scriptural....
-
I was blissfully in ignorance as to your qualifications for assessor, Sass.
Fortunately those who have such qualifications were of a differing opinion, and my studies start in September.
Thanks for the encouragement, though.
I see you rely on men and not God for assessor?
The truth is they don't see your posts here or attacks on others.
Either way... you are not right for the ministry. I have spent my life around people who were and you are not ministry material.
You know what they say... Men may make their decisions but God decides the final outcome....
Serving God or serving man and money? You wait till you find that it isn't all about the stipend or the preaching... I have seen good men of God who have relished in the full work of being a preacher..
The hospital visiting.. the home visiting.. the getting up in the middle of the night to help their parishoners... Believe me.. you haven't thought it through... and it could not happen to a nicer person... Be careful what you seek because it isn't a bed of roses it is really hard work .... as you will find out if you make it...
Good job, I am here to remind you what it really means to Serve God in the community...
=
Again, Sass, and with respect, I must correct you.
The candidate for any ordained ministry in the CofS undergo rigorous testing of their calling before their names are put before the assessors.
What rigorous testing? How do you test Gods calling?
These tests include attending enquirerer's conferences, 1-1 interviews, counselling sessions, reports from various sources within the candidate's own church and Presbytery.
You mean your minister has to put you forward and that you then attend the interview for suitability where asked to give an account of why you feel God is calling you to the Ministry?
The assesors consist of a professor of New Testament Studies, two parish ministers (one of whom is a past moderator of the General Assembly) and two elders, one of whom is a lecturer in English at Stirling University.
Were those who attended your assessment for suitability or are you saying there are the only assessors?
After several sessions with them in which, as a matter of fact, I DID disclose my membership of this forum, they approved my candidacy.
Again, I am amazed that you have hidden your skills as an assessor so well.
Again... God knows whom he calls and whom are chosen...
I am amazed you cannot see why God called fishermen and not priests to follow Jesus....
Not of the Old Covenant but the New Covenant...
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
which is most important?
Sanctification of God?
King James Bible
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
or man?
In truth we are already a royal priesthood chosen by God not the order of man.
1 Peter 2:9King James Version (KJV)
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Your answer shows that you think you can justify your position by the way of man and question my own position which God has already justified to you and all men.
A royal priesthood where we are all priests because we have one high priest and so no earthly priests in the worldly sense are required anymore.
If we seek perfection in any person we won't find it. NOT in you and NOT in I... But in Christ alone will we find our acceptance and perfection. It is the humbling of having no self-righteousness that allows us to examine ourselves and to speak as we feel lead by God.
None of us are exempt....
-
Dear Jim,
Are you thinking about wearing a dog collar, I know your Church is having a recruitment drive at the moment.
Gonnagle.
He isn't ready for that calling.... because he cannot accept that the truth of God in man is about a change in life and not about knowledge possessed which is not scriptural....
-
I was blissfully in ignorance as to your qualifications for assessor, Sass.
Fortunately those who have such qualifications were of a differing opinion, and my studies start in September.
Thanks for the encouragement, though.
Congratulations, my friend, and good luck.
-
Again. and with respect, you misunderstand, Sass.
In the CofS, the minister is a 'ruling and teaching elder'; and he/she is only one of the Kirk Session - which he/she moderates.
This consists of elders - the 'ruling and teaching elder', and 'ruling elders'. I was ordained as a ruling elder in 1992, so I think I know a little abouut being an elder and service - though my service is never as good as I want it to be.
No-one 'puts your name forward', as you put it.
If one thinks that one is called to ministry, one indicates this to kirk Session or to Presbytery, and then voluntarily goes through a process of prayer, meditation and attachment to another congregation to see whether or not that call is still there. I didn't need the last bit - I'm already trained as a reader and authorised to preach.
However, I asked to spend six months with another inister in a nieghbouring town - a minister whose stance was different in many ways to mine, just to see whether or not I'd still be able to 'fit inn'.
Only then did I put my name forward, with the consent of my Kirk Session and Presbytery, to the enquirers conference.
The whole process has taken around two years, in which I have been privilaged to conduct and assist in funerals, work with a part time hospital chaplain, and do prison visiting, as well as worship team duties in my own congregation.
My deccision was not taken lightly - nor should such a choice ever be made lightly.
I can't do this alone - if I could, my choice would have been the wrong one.
Without God's guidance leading, encouraging - sometimes giving me the kick in the backside that I know I'll need, I won't get anywhere with this.
-
Good job, I am here to remind you what it really means to Serve God in the community...
Sorry Sass, but I'm still waiting to see anything remotely resembling serving God in the community from you here.
As someone who has been involved in the selection process from both sides, both in regard to full-time ordained ministry and for work as a missionary overseas, I know what to look out for in a candidate, but I believe that I also know what to listen for in their explanations of call and vision. I see few of those characteristics in you.
-
You don't know what you are talking about Sass. You actually think Anchorman doesn't know what he is taking on? You think he's been living under a rock? From what I've gathered over these few years, Anchorman already does a lot that an ordained minister does. And he is a very mild person compared to you or me. (expect when it's to do with the royals or the UK)
-
Dear Jim,
Post 12, if I could offer a wee bit of advice, never forget that Our Lord has a terrific sense of humour, I am living testament to that, especially when I think I am smarter than he is.
Gonnagle.
-
What rigorous testing? How do you test Gods calling?
If you have to ask this question, what makes you think you have any credentials for questioning Jim's.
These tests include attending enquirerer's conferences, 1-1 interviews, counselling sessions, reports from various sources within the candidate's own church and Presbytery.
You mean your minister has to put you forward and that you then attend the interview for suitability where asked to give an account of why you feel God is calling you to the Ministry?
When I went through the process 30-odd years ago, I was interviewed by members of the PCC - I was attending a CofE church at that stage - who made up a ministerial recognition-type panel, and by two or three other groups within the church. I was then interviewed by the minister, who then discussed me with those who had already interviewed me. That process took 6 or 7 months. Only then was my name put forward to the Diocese, and over the next 18 months I had interviews with the folk from their ministerial-recognition panel, sundry other diocesan officers and eventually the Bishop. Only then was my name sent to central CofE office, Church House, recommending me for what was then called ACCM, and is now called a Bishops Advisory Panel. That was an intense 3-day process in itself. Because of circumstances, I had already been interviewed by 2 Theological colleges, both of which had given me a positive report.
This ain't no slap-dash process, Sass. It can last up to 2 or 3 years even before you start one's traing, and even them one is assessed and re-interviewed during that training - itself a further 2 to 3 years - as to one's suitability and appropriate route once ordained.
I am amazed you cannot see why God called fishermen and not priests to follow Jesus....
Not of the Old Covenant but the New Covenant...
So, is this a rant against the concept of ordination, Sass? Against the concept of training people to serve the Lord (something that Jesus eemed pretty hot on ;))? Remember that even that hallowed document of yours refers to people being called to various roles within the church - administrators, teachers, apostles, etc., etc.
Your answer shows that you think you can justify your position by the way of man and question my own position which God has already justified to you and all men.
And just how has God justified your position, Sass? Perhaps you could elucidate.
A royal priesthood where we are all priests because we have one high priest and so no earthly priests in the worldly sense are required anymore.
If we seek perfection in any person we won't find it. NOT in you and NOT in I... But in Christ alone will we find our acceptance and perfection. It is the humbling of having no self-righteousness that allows us to examine ourselves and to speak as we feel lead by God.
None of us are exempt....
So a couple of references to 'a royal priesthood' trump Jesus' own clear belief that people had to be prepared for leadership of his Church? Remeber that the Old Covenant priests were there to intercede with God for the people of Israel. That role is definitely not necessary, and I doubt whether Jim regards that as a role he would have to undertake. However, people who are going to teach and have a leadership role still need training.
-
Hi Anchorman,
From my point of view, the world sorely needs the input of thoroughly decent, genuine and caring individuals, and, from the evidence of your posts, that's how I see you. As you no doubt realise I am an atheist, but I hope this does not blind me from trying to see the good in each individual. I wish you every success with your calling.
Too old!!! I'm 74, and, at times, I feel as if life has only just begun ;D ;)
-
Hi Anchorman,
From my point of view, the world sorely needs the input of thoroughly decent, genuine and caring individuals, and, from the evidence of your posts, that's how I see you. As you no doubt realise I am an atheist, but I hope this does not blind me from trying to see the good in each individual. I wish you every success with your calling.
Too old!!! I'm 74, and, at times, I feel as if life has only just begun ;D ;)
-
Shucks!
Thanks, Enki.
And, for what it's worth, I appreciate your comments.
And, too old?
Sass will no doubt trundle out a few Scriptures based around Abraham to knock that on the head!
-
You don't know what you are talking about Sass. You actually think Anchorman doesn't know what he is taking on? You think he's been living under a rock? From what I've gathered over these few years, Anchorman already does a lot that an ordained minister does. And he is a very mild person compared to you or me. (expect when it's to do with the royals or the UK)
-
Cheers, JC.
And, of course, party politics should never be spouted from the pulpit.
That shouldn't stop preachers expressing concern for "these, the least of My brothers", though - as long as what that person says can be backed up with Scripture.
If they simply go on a political rant-fest, then it's time to avoid them like the proverbial.
I might come across as mild mannered, but I'm no Clark Kent (nor, thank heaveans, Superman...my underpants are on the inside)
Even though I don't quote Scripture with every post, Scripture remains central to my outlook.
-
Dear Jim,
Post 12, if I could offer a wee bit of advice, never forget that Our Lord has a terrific sense of humour, I am living testament to that, especially when I think I am smarter than he is.
Gonnagle.
-
Yep.
When I was a Sunday School teacher and Boys' Brigade officer, my classes were noted for their hilarity.
Thankfully, the unwritten eleventh commandment of the Kirk - "Thou shalt not laugh" - is consigned to history.
-
Jim, I too would like to wish you all the very best in your new calling. I will remember you in my prayers that you may be guided in Spirit and Truth.
Re your question in the OP..... about 9 months ago I had a radical reawakening. Jesus and the God connection (as it were) had been slowly floating away. But, no longer. With a little help from a friend, I am once more home..... and all is well.
-
Jim, I too would like to wish you all the very best in your new calling. I will remember you in my prayers that you may be guided in Spirit and Truth.
Re your question in the OP..... about 9 months ago I had a radical reawakening. Jesus and the God connection (as it were) had been slowly floating away. But, no longer. With a little help from a friend, I am once more home..... and all is well.
-
Cheers, SweetPea.
Sometimes Jesus meets us at times and in situations we wouldn't choose, and just when we thought we had consigned the faith thing to a filing cabinet, He brings in a friend, or puts us in a situation, where we have to confront His claim on us all over again.
It's almost worth the backsliding to experience His pulling us back to where He wants us to be, isn't it?
-
Jim, I too would like to wish you all the very best in your new calling. I will remember you in my prayers that you may be guided in Spirit and Truth.
Re your question in the OP..... about 9 months ago I had a radical reawakening. Jesus and the God connection (as it were) had been slowly floating away. But, no longer. With a little help from a friend, I am once more home..... and all is well.
-
Cheers, SweetPea.
Sometimes Jesus meets us at times and in situations we wouldn't choose, and just when we thought we had consigned the faith thing to a filing cabinet, He brings in a friend, or puts us in a situation, where we have to confront His claim on us all over again.
It's almost worth the backsliding to experience His pulling us back to where He wants us to be, isn't it?
Most certainly, Jim. Lucifer is sooo clever, he masquerades as an angel of light.... but it is a counterfeit light and causes deception through hypnosis. My sight and hearing has been restored like never before.... and there's a renewed strength. God Bless you, brother.
-
Dear Sass,
Away and bile yer heid >:(
Gonnagle.
It isn't bile it is fact...
...
Bile has no place in this ...
Er, Gonners was talking foreign (nearly).
-
...
Oh good grief, Sassy. Calm down. Jim sounds a very good candidate to me. He knows his Scriptures, loves his Lord, has lots of relevant experience and seems to have been led by God down this track.
Glad to hear of this, Jim.
Alan.
-
Dear Alan,
Correct, I speak perfect weggie but the written word leaves something to be desired.
Gonnagle.
-
So Peeps here, at what times does Jesus pop round for a brew & a creamy bun?
Whatcha mean, that's NOT how it works.
You all talk as if Jesus calls knocking like your pal from round the corner .......?!?!!?!?!
-
So Peeps here, at what times does Jesus pop round for a brew & a creamy bun?
Whatcha mean, that's NOT how it works.
You all talk as if Jesus calls knocking like your pal from round the corner .......?!?!!?!?!
-
Where have we all said this, please?
-
Dear Jim,
Are you thinking about wearing a dog collar, I know your Church is having a recruitment drive at the moment.
Gonnagle.
He isn't ready for that calling.... because he cannot accept that the truth of God in man is about a change in life and not about knowledge possessed which is not scriptural....
-
I was blissfully in ignorance as to your qualifications for assessor, Sass.
Fortunately those who have such qualifications were of a differing opinion, and my studies start in September.
Thanks for the encouragement, though.
I see you rely on men and not God for assessor?
The truth is they don't see your posts here or attacks on others.
Either way... you are not right for the ministry. I have spent my life around people who were and you are not ministry material.
You know what they say... Men may make their decisions but God decides the final outcome....
Serving God or serving man and money? You wait till you find that it isn't all about the stipend or the preaching... I have seen good men of God who have relished in the full work of being a preacher..
The hospital visiting.. the home visiting.. the getting up in the middle of the night to help their parishoners... Believe me.. you haven't thought it through... and it could not happen to a nicer person... Be careful what you seek because it isn't a bed of roses it is really hard work ....
------
- Er....whp mentioned money or a stipend, Sass?
The OLM is unpaid.
Travelling expenses can be claimed, but, since I qualify for free bus and rail travel all over Scotland, that doesn't apply either.
And as an elder, I've been hospital visiting for twenty three years...sometines at the end of life.
As a reader, I've been immensely privilaged to be involved with families as they plan the funeral of a loved one - and conducted that funeral as well.
Again, many thanks for your encouraging words.
-
He speaks through Scripture, Nick.
Sometimes a verse you've read umpteen times leaps out and grabs you by the throat.
Or in times of prayer, sometimes that feeling of presence is there, seeping into your being.
Or through the words and actions of a friend.
Very occasionally if you stay awake long enough, you might even be made to listen to an otherwise boring sermon and something sticks in your mind, and you know it's from God - if you know the God it's from, that is.
And occasionally - very occasionally, that "Still, small voice" Elijah spoke about comes when you're not looking for it.
It's happened a few times with me...and that's a voice you can't ignore.
-
So very true, Jim. Scripture is blindingly clear to me at the moment, whereas for years the text seemed to be just 'words'.... it's resounding in my ears. I'm not entirely sure what's happening. All I know is it's time to 'listen'..... just let go, open your heart and listen.
-
Good job, I am here to remind you what it really means to Serve God in the community...
Sorry Sass, but I'm still waiting to see anything remotely resembling serving God in the community from you here.
You have to remove the bias and prejudice out of your eye to see the truth. You only have your own truth and that is why you cannot tell the difference.
As someone who has been involved in the selection process from both sides, both in regard to full-time ordained ministry and for work as a missionary overseas, I know what to look out for in a candidate, but I believe that I also know what to listen for in their explanations of call and vision. I see few of those characteristics in you.
Where... where were you an ordained minister... Where did you take part in the selection process... and why do you think the above makes you qualified over God and His Holy Spirit?
You see you are worldly not Godly.
Had you read the post you would know that priests are not needed now as we are all part of a heavenly priesthood. That there are only those who worship in Spirit and Truth who belong to God and Christ.
May be your arrogance is your downfall... You place yourself and mans ways above Gods... And we see that the Jews were no better they killed the Prophets because they never appeared to say what they wanted or expected to hear....
You cannot walk the walk, you cannot talk the talk and you certainly have no authority over the children of God or any authority to judge who belongs to God and who doesn't.
May be a dose of humbleness and a reality check before God might help you.... Sometimes people suffer because of their beliefs...
As Christ said:
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
So you are liked by people calling themselves Christians and Atheists alike.. Not a shining example is it?
I know what God teaches and there is no other way but Christ...
Glad you feel so high up in your world of faith and beliefs in this world.
As Christ said:
"My kingdom is not of this world." Men do not requre to be ordained if they have Gods Spirit for unless they have Gods Spirit they do not belong to God....
-
You don't know what you are talking about Sass. You actually think Anchorman doesn't know what he is taking on? You think he's been living under a rock? From what I've gathered over these few years, Anchorman already does a lot that an ordained minister does. And he is a very mild person compared to you or me. (expect when it's to do with the royals or the UK)
You mean his epic failure to obey God...
King James 2000 Bible
Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
We are to honor the King or the Queen as both are the same in Gods eyes.
-
What rigorous testing? How do you test Gods calling?
If you have to ask this question, what makes you think you have any credentials for questioning Jim's.
Answered in last post to you. I go by Gods teachings not mans.
A higher credential there isn't.
These tests include attending enquirerer's conferences, 1-1 interviews, counselling sessions, reports from various sources within the candidate's own church and Presbytery.
You mean your minister has to put you forward and that you then attend the interview for suitability where asked to give an account of why you feel God is calling you to the Ministry?
When I went through the process 30-odd years ago, I was interviewed by members of the PCC - I was attending a CofE church at that stage - who made up a ministerial recognition-type panel, and by two or three other groups within the church. I was then interviewed by the minister, who then discussed me with those who had already interviewed me. That process took 6 or 7 months. Only then was my name put forward to the Diocese, and over the next 18 months I had interviews with the folk from their ministerial-recognition panel, sundry other diocesan officers and eventually the Bishop. Only then was my name sent to central CofE office, Church House, recommending me for what was then called ACCM, and is now called a Bishops Advisory Panel. That was an intense 3-day process in itself. Because of circumstances, I had already been interviewed by 2 Theological colleges, both of which had given me a positive report.
This ain't no slap-dash process, Sass. It can last up to 2 or 3 years even before you start one's traing, and even them one is assessed and re-interviewed during that training - itself a further 2 to 3 years - as to one's suitability and appropriate route once ordained.
I am amazed you cannot see why God called fishermen and not priests to follow Jesus....
Not of the Old Covenant but the New Covenant...
So, is this a rant against the concept of ordination, Sass? Against the concept of training people to serve the Lord (something that Jesus eemed pretty hot on ;))? Remember that even that hallowed document of yours refers to people being called to various roles within the church - administrators, teachers, apostles, etc., etc.
Your answer shows that you think you can justify your position by the way of man and question my own position which God has already justified to you and all men.
And just how has God justified your position, Sass? Perhaps you could elucidate.
A royal priesthood where we are all priests because we have one high priest and so no earthly priests in the worldly sense are required anymore.
If we seek perfection in any person we won't find it. NOT in you and NOT in I... But in Christ alone will we find our acceptance and perfection. It is the humbling of having no self-righteousness that allows us to examine ourselves and to speak as we feel lead by God.
None of us are exempt....
So a couple of references to 'a royal priesthood' trump Jesus' own clear belief that people had to be prepared for leadership of his Church? Remeber that the Old Covenant priests were there to intercede with God for the people of Israel. That role is definitely not necessary, and I doubt whether Jim regards that as a role he would have to undertake. However, people who are going to teach and have a leadership role still need training.
[/quote]
"My God shall supply ALL YOUR NEEDS ACCORDING TO HIS RICHES IN GLORY THROUGH CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD..."
John 16:13.
John 16:13King James Version (KJV)
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jeremiah 31:33-34King James Version (KJV)
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Where did Christ train? Where did John train? Where did the Apostles train? Where did Paul train? You see the truth of God does not need educated men or trained men.
The fact is the Churches are so dead today because they went their own way instead of Gods way....
You obey God when you believe his words and that comes with actions of obedience and expectation.
King James Bible
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Distinct isn't it...
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
No, no mention of theological college or human teachers..
Because Holy men of God NEVER SPOKE of themselves or what man gave them... they spoke the word of God as the Holy Spirit moved them.....
If God was close and felt close to you... you would know God warns those he loves... What next? You going to tell us God is wrong?
-
...
Where did Christ train?
See Luke 2:46.Where did John train? Where did the Apostles train?
They went on a 3 year intensive course with the best teacher ever who took them through the Scriptures and showed them how to pray, heal, cast out demons and so on.Where did Paul train?
See Acts 22:3. He also went off to Arabia after his conversion. What do you think he did there? You see the truth of God does not need educated men or trained men.
We Christians all have different roles and gifts. If Jesus had to study and ask people questions, then I am sure I need to too.
The fact is the Churches are so dead today because they went their own way instead of Gods way....
Some churches are dead... What about the one you are part of? Is that dead?You obey God when you believe his words and that comes with actions of obedience and expectation.
Yes.
King James Bible
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Distinct isn't it...
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
No, no mention of theological college or human teachers..
Not here, since there were no theological colleges, but as we see from Luke 3:46 Jesus asked human teachers and if it is good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for me. Is it good enough for you too?Because Holy men of God NEVER SPOKE of themselves or what man gave them... they spoke the word of God as the Holy Spirit moved them.....
Actually, it would be good to quote the exact words and see the context. The words are:
"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
If God was close and felt close to you... you would know God warns those he loves... What next? You going to tell us God is wrong?
What has that got to do with the above?
-
Where did Christ train? Where did John train? Where did the Apostles train? Where did Paul train? You see the truth of God does not need educated men or trained men.
If he does not need educated men, why use the highly-educated Paul, Sass? Why did Jesus spent three years training his disciples? Why did the disciples put so much store by teaching the new disciples?
No, no mention of theological college or human teachers..
Because Holy men of God NEVER SPOKE of themselves or what man gave them... they spoke the word of God as the Holy Spirit moved them.....
If God was close and felt close to you... you would know God warns those he loves... What next? You going to tell us God is wrong?
As above, plenty of mention of teaching - and by humans.
-
Er......If God did not need highly educated, trained people to serve Him, Sass, you'd be quoting Scripture in Hebrew, Armaic and Koine Greek, rather than your beloved KJV, 2000 or otherwise....or did you think it came to the printers on golden plates?
(sorry, wrong religion....)
-
Where did Christ train? Where did John train? Where did the Apostles train? Where did Paul train? You see the truth of God does not need educated men or trained men.
If he does not need educated men, why use the highly-educated Paul, Sass? Why did Jesus spent three years training his disciples? Why did the disciples put so much store by teaching the new disciples?
No, no mention of theological college or human teachers..
Because Holy men of God NEVER SPOKE of themselves or what man gave them... they spoke the word of God as the Holy Spirit moved them.....
If God was close and felt close to you... you would know God warns those he loves... What next? You going to tell us God is wrong?
As above, plenty of mention of teaching - and by humans.
Wot Hope said.
Mt 5:2 Jesus taught people.
Mt 11:1 Jesus taught people.
Mt 22:16 Jesus taught people.
Mk 1:21 Jesus taught people.
Mk 2:13 Jesus taught people.
Mk 4:1 Jesus taught people.
Mk 6:2 Jesus taught people.
Mk 8:31 Jesus taught people.
Mk 12:14 Jesus taught people.
Lk 11:1 Jesus taught people.
Lk 20:21 Jesus taught people.
Jn 7:14 Jesus taught people.
Jn 8:2 Jesus taught people.
Acts 1:1 Jesus taught people.
Acts 4:18 The apostles taught people.
Acts 5:21/28 The apostles taught people.
Romans 12:7 Christians taught people.
1 Cor 4:17 Paul taught people.
Col 3:16 Christians taught each other.
1 Tim 3:2 Overseers/bishops taught people.
1 Tim 4:1 Timothy taught people.
1 Tim 6:2 Timothy taught people.
2 Tim 2:2 Christians taught each other.
2 Tim 2:24 Christians taught each other.
Titus 2:1,2,3, 9, 15 Titus taught people.
Jas 3:1 Christians taught each other.
Jesus told us to teach people Mt 28:20
And so on and so forth.
-
...
Where did Christ train?
See Luke 2:46.
How did they train him to speak the words from God?
How did they teach him to heal the sick, give sight to the blind and feed the poor with a few loaves and fishes?
Christ heard what every Jew heard... But the Prophets and Christ received their teachings and words from the Holy Spirit. Why give an answer the bible shows to be wrong? Christ was not taught by man and neither are Christians. Do you not know the New Covenant is not like the OLD...
Jeremiah 31:31-34. John 4:21-26.
He also said:- " My words are Spirit and they are life."
So no one taught Christ or the Prophets...
2 Peter 1:21King James Version (KJV)
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Where did John train? Where did the Apostles train?
They went on a 3 year intensive course with the best teacher ever who took them through the Scriptures and showed them how to pray, heal, cast out demons and so on.
King James Bible
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
The Kingdom of God is within you....
Because Christ brought the baptism of the Holy Spirit...
The Disciples did not and could not start their missions till they received the Holy Spirit too.
John 16:13
The Holy Spirit is the true teacher who lead them into all truths and showed them the things to come..
Where did Paul train?
See Acts 22:3. He also went off to Arabia after his conversion. What do you think he did there?
22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
Acts 21:4 (KJV)
4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.
As you can see they spoke according to the Spirit.
You see the truth of God does not need educated men or trained men.
We Christians all have different roles and gifts. If Jesus had to study and ask people questions, then I am sure I need to too.
Jesus taught them....
47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
Ye need not any man teach you...
1 John 2:27King James Version (KJV)
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
The fact is the Churches are so dead today because they went their own way instead of Gods way....
Some churches are dead... What about the one you are part of? Is that dead?
The true Church of Christ are those born of the Spirit and Truth.
That Church is NEVER dead for the gates of hell cannot prevail against it because it is taught by the Spirit not men...
You obey God when you believe his words and that comes with actions of obedience and expectation.
Yes.King James Bible
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Distinct isn't it...
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
No, no mention of theological college or human teachers..
Not here, since there were no theological colleges, but as we see from Luke 3:46 Jesus asked human teachers and if it is good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for me. Is it good enough for you too?
Only you got it wrong... Jesus like all Jews had to learn the scriptures off by heart.
It was those who heard Jesus who were astonished at his understanding and answers.
47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
Because Holy men of God NEVER SPOKE of themselves or what man gave them... they spoke the word of God as the Holy Spirit moved them.....
Actually, it would be good to quote the exact words and see the context. The words are:
"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
Best for actual originals...
2 Peter 1:21King James Version (KJV)
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
1 John 2:27King James Version (KJV)
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
If God was close and felt close to you... you would know God warns those he loves... What next? You going to tell us God is wrong?
What has that got to do with the above?
Like the true Church it is about Spirit and Truth. The bible is clear the New Covenant and those who belong to God do not need any man to teach them.
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
It isn't a competition but every man needs the Spirit to be their teacher because they have to have their own oil. The parable of the wise and foolish virgins....
-
Where did Christ train? Where did John train? Where did the Apostles train? Where did Paul train? You see the truth of God does not need educated men or trained men.
If he does not need educated men, why use the highly-educated Paul, Sass? Why did Jesus spent three years training his disciples? Why did the disciples put so much store by teaching the new disciples?
No, no mention of theological college or human teachers..
Because Holy men of God NEVER SPOKE of themselves or what man gave them... they spoke the word of God as the Holy Spirit moved them.....
If God was close and felt close to you... you would know God warns those he loves... What next? You going to tell us God is wrong?
As above, plenty of mention of teaching - and by humans.
Wot Hope said.
Mt 5:2 Jesus taught people.
Mt 11:1 Jesus taught people.
Mt 22:16 Jesus taught people.
Mk 1:21 Jesus taught people.
Mk 2:13 Jesus taught people.
Mk 4:1 Jesus taught people.
Mk 6:2 Jesus taught people.
Mk 8:31 Jesus taught people.
Mk 12:14 Jesus taught people.
Lk 11:1 Jesus taught people.
Lk 20:21 Jesus taught people.
Jn 7:14 Jesus taught people.
Jn 8:2 Jesus taught people.
Acts 1:1 Jesus taught people.
Acts 4:18 The apostles taught people.
Acts 5:21/28 The apostles taught people.
Romans 12:7 Christians taught people.
1 Cor 4:17 Paul taught people.
Col 3:16 Christians taught each other.
1 Tim 3:2 Overseers/bishops taught people.
1 Tim 4:1 Timothy taught people.
1 Tim 6:2 Timothy taught people.
2 Tim 2:2 Christians taught each other.
2 Tim 2:24 Christians taught each other.
Titus 2:1,2,3, 9, 15 Titus taught people.
Jas 3:1 Christians taught each other.
Jesus told us to teach people Mt 28:20
And so on and so forth.
What Jesus taught them:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Christ was to bring them the final truth from God... The correct teachings which would decide what beliefs were true.
As John said.. " I baptise with water but he comes after me is greater than I, he brings the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
No man needs another man to teach him who is born of the Holy Spirit...
-
Christ was to bring them the final truth from God... The correct teachings which would decide what beliefs were true.
I'm glad that you agree that teaching is important. Christ had to teach his disciples as those dsciples had to teach others.
-
Dear Jim,
Are you thinking about wearing a dog collar, I know your Church is having a recruitment drive at the moment.
Gonnagle.
-
Bingo......sort of. Gonners!
As you know, I trained as a reader type in the CofS.
I put my name forward for selection as a candidate for the Ordained Local Ministry - what used to be called Auxilliary ministry; that's a minister who does everything a 'full' minister does without a stipend or the commitment of being a parish minister (besides, I'm now officially too old to train for that...don't say it - I'm past it).
Dunno about the dog collar bit.
If I'm ordained eventually, I'll be able to wear one, I suppose...but that's not me - I don't have fleas!
I have a friend who does that, and wears all the robes 😉
I tease her sometimes and call her "the vicar of dibley" in a jesting kind of way. 😉
She cares about people and gets involved in helping others, she felt she was called to it too.
I think you should follow your heart Anchorman, ignore your critics.
All the best and hope you succeed, I don't know you, but from what I have seen you would be a good one.
-
Cheers, Julie - and thanks.
-
...
It isn't a competition but every man needs the Spirit to be their teacher because they have to have their own oil. The parable of the wise and foolish virgins....
Yes, the Holy Spirit does need to be our teacher, but he often uses people to teach other people. That is what you yourself are trying to do after all. Should I ignore you, because it is not the Holy Spirit speaking to me directly.
You haven't addressed:
Mt 5:2 Jesus taught people.
Mt 11:1 Jesus taught people.
Mt 22:16 Jesus taught people.
Mk 1:21 Jesus taught people.
Mk 2:13 Jesus taught people.
Mk 4:1 Jesus taught people.
Mk 6:2 Jesus taught people.
Mk 8:31 Jesus taught people.
Mk 12:14 Jesus taught people.
Lk 11:1 Jesus taught people.
Lk 20:21 Jesus taught people.
Jn 7:14 Jesus taught people.
Jn 8:2 Jesus taught people.
Acts 1:1 Jesus taught people.
Acts 4:18 The apostles taught people.
Acts 5:21/28 The apostles taught people.
Romans 12:7 Christians taught people.
1 Cor 4:17 Paul taught people.
Col 3:16 Christians taught each other.
1 Tim 3:2 Overseers/bishops taught people.
1 Tim 4:1 Timothy taught people.
1 Tim 6:2 Timothy taught people.
2 Tim 2:2 Christians taught each other.
2 Tim 2:24 Christians taught each other.
Titus 2:1,2,3, 9, 15 Titus taught people.
Jas 3:1 Christians taught each other.
Jesus told us to teach people Mt 28:20
Alan
-
Where did Christ train? Where did John train? Where did the Apostles train? Where did Paul train? You see the truth of God does not need educated men or trained men.
If he does not need educated men, why use the highly-educated Paul, Sass? Why did Jesus spent three years training his disciples? Why did the disciples put so much store by teaching the new disciples?
No, no mention of theological college or human teachers..
Because Holy men of God NEVER SPOKE of themselves or what man gave them... they spoke the word of God as the Holy Spirit moved them.....
If God was close and felt close to you... you would know God warns those he loves... What next? You going to tell us God is wrong?
As above, plenty of mention of teaching - and by humans.
Wot Hope said.
Mt 5:2 Jesus taught people.
Mt 11:1 Jesus taught people.
Mt 22:16 Jesus taught people.
Mk 1:21 Jesus taught people.
Mk 2:13 Jesus taught people.
Mk 4:1 Jesus taught people.
Mk 6:2 Jesus taught people.
Mk 8:31 Jesus taught people.
Mk 12:14 Jesus taught people.
Lk 11:1 Jesus taught people.
Lk 20:21 Jesus taught people.
Jn 7:14 Jesus taught people.
Jn 8:2 Jesus taught people.
Acts 1:1 Jesus taught people.
Acts 4:18 The apostles taught people.
Acts 5:21/28 The apostles taught people.
Romans 12:7 Christians taught people.
1 Cor 4:17 Paul taught people.
Col 3:16 Christians taught each other.
1 Tim 3:2 Overseers/bishops taught people.
1 Tim 4:1 Timothy taught people.
1 Tim 6:2 Timothy taught people.
2 Tim 2:2 Christians taught each other.
2 Tim 2:24 Christians taught each other.
Titus 2:1,2,3, 9, 15 Titus taught people.
Jas 3:1 Christians taught each other.
Jesus told us to teach people Mt 28:20
And so on and so forth.
...
No man needs another man to teach him who is born of the Holy Spirit...
So Jesus was wrong in Matthew 28:19-20 then?
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you
-
You'd hae thocht 'Sassernach' micht hae guessed that, though......
-
Wishing you many blessings on your journey, Anchorman. :)
-
Wishing you many blessings on your journey, Anchorman. :)
- Cheers, Rhi!
-
Christ was to bring them the final truth from God... The correct teachings which would decide what beliefs were true.
I'm glad that you agree that teaching is important. Christ had to teach his disciples as those dsciples had to teach others.
Hope the teaching Christ brought was this:-
John the baptist taught:
" I baptise with water but he comes after me, is greater than I and he will baptise with the Holy Spirit."
John 16:
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Why no man need be taught by another... When they are taught by the Spirit they need no other teacher...
King James Bible
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Rabbi means teacher...None are to be called teachers...
King James Bible
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
You need to be taught by God through the Spirit.
-
Dear Jim,
Are you thinking about wearing a dog collar, I know your Church is having a recruitment drive at the moment.
Gonnagle.
He isn't ready for that calling.... because he cannot accept that the truth of God in man is about a change in life and not about knowledge possessed which is not scriptural....
You always think you know better than God, don't you Sassy?
Why... where has God spoken on here to justify your statement?
The truth is I know the word of God and you cannot show by the word that I am wrong. Nor can they... So NO! this is not between God and I. It is about Gods teachings verses mans. And I am on the side of Gods teachings.
Those teachings show that with the Spirit all are priests of the most high God.
King James Bible
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
If Christians and they belief they are part of the Royal priesthood what other ordination do they require? The priesthood the Royal priesthood are born of the one teacher the Holy Spirit. If someone is in the Spirit they do not require a teacher. It is milk and solids and only those in the Spirit taught those not yet in the Spirit.
Acts 10 shows Peter teaching the gentiles who having believed in Christ received the Holy Spirit.
Christianity is about living in the truth and power of Gods words.
-
Christ was to bring them the final truth from God... The correct teachings which would decide what beliefs were true.
I'm glad that you agree that teaching is important. Christ had to teach his disciples as those dsciples had to teach others.
Hope the teaching Christ brought was this:-
John the baptist taught:
" I baptise with water but he comes after me, is greater than I and he will baptise with the Holy Spirit."
John 16:
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Why no man need be taught by another... When they are taught by the Spirit they need no other teacher...
King James Bible
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Rabbi means teacher...None are to be called teachers...
King James Bible
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
You need to be taught by God through the Spirit.
Why do you always quote in Jacobean English, Sassy?
-
Christ was to bring them the final truth from God... The correct teachings which would decide what beliefs were true.
I'm glad that you agree that teaching is important. Christ had to teach his disciples as those dsciples had to teach others.
Hope the teaching Christ brought was this:-
John the baptist taught:
" I baptise with water but he comes after me, is greater than I and he will baptise with the Holy Spirit."
John 16:
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Why no man need be taught by another... When they are taught by the Spirit they need no other teacher...
King James Bible
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Rabbi means teacher...None are to be called teachers...
King James Bible
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
You need to be taught by God through the Spirit.
Why do you always quote in Jacobean English, Sassy?
Why don't you reply to the content instead of asking questions that are immaterial. Can you not understand what is said without a modern day version?
-
Christ was to bring them the final truth from God... The correct teachings which would decide what beliefs were true.
I'm glad that you agree that teaching is important. Christ had to teach his disciples as those dsciples had to teach others.
Hope the teaching Christ brought was this:-
John the baptist taught:
" I baptise with water but he comes after me, is greater than I and he will baptise with the Holy Spirit."
John 16:
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Why no man need be taught by another... When they are taught by the Spirit they need no other teacher...
King James Bible
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Rabbi means teacher...None are to be called teachers...
King James Bible
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
You need to be taught by God through the Spirit.
Why do you always quote in Jacobean English, Sassy?
Why don't you reply to the content instead of asking questions that are immaterial.
Because you were discussing with Hope and I was interested in why you don't use normal English.Can you not understand what is said without a modern day version?
Yes, by looking up the same verses in a bible using normal English, but I rather we all spoke normal English on here
So why do you always quote in Jacobean English, Sassy?
-
Gordon Bennett, Alan....you're REALLY stirring it....! :D
-
Can you not understand what is said without a modern day version?
Sass, do you speak modern British English or Jacobean British English? The meanings of words change over time and many of the words used in the King James Bible have done just this. It is for a very similar reason that the King James Bible was created in the first place - to allow the ordinary people to read the Scriptures.
-
Christ was to bring them the final truth from God... The correct teachings which would decide what beliefs were true.
I'm glad that you agree that teaching is important. Christ had to teach his disciples as those dsciples had to teach others.
Hope the teaching Christ brought was this:-
John the baptist taught:
" I baptise with water but he comes after me, is greater than I and he will baptise with the Holy Spirit."
John 16:
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Why no man need be taught by another... When they are taught by the Spirit they need no other teacher...
King James Bible
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Rabbi means teacher...None are to be called teachers...
King James Bible
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
You need to be taught by God through the Spirit.
Why do you always quote in Jacobean English, Sassy?
Why don't you reply to the content instead of asking questions that are immaterial.
Because you were discussing with Hope and I was interested in why you don't use normal English.Can you not understand what is said without a modern day version?
Yes, by looking up the same verses in a bible using normal English, but I rather we all spoke normal English on here
So why do you always quote in Jacobean English, Sassy?
Do you not see the difference... The disciples knew the word of God the scriptures off by heart. The same way today people are taught by God.
Maybe the answer you have given says more about what you lack...
-
Gordon Bennett, Alan....you're REALLY stirring it....! :D
Just being Anglican, my wee friend. Article of the 39 articles says, "It is a thing plainly repugnant to the Word of God and the custom primitive Church to have public prayer in the Church, or to minister the Sacraments, in a tongue not understanded of the people." It is similar with the Scriptures. At the Reformation there was a great emphasis on the Scriptures with the various translations into people's own languages. The point was to help people understand what the Scriptures say. That's why using the KJV is such an anachronism. It was published to help people understand the Word of God in English yet now it is difficult to understand. It did its job and we should be thankful for it, but not faff around still using it.
If people (mistakenly) want to use a translation based on the Majority Text/Textus Receptus, use the NKJV.
-
Can you not understand what is said without a modern day version?
Sass, do you speak modern British English or Jacobean British English? The meanings of words change over time and many of the words used in the King James Bible have done just this. It is for a very similar reason that the King James Bible was created in the first place - to allow the ordinary people to read the Scriptures.
Given the truth of Scriptures in the OT and the teachings how does the WORDS of God remains secure today?
Spirit and Truth....
-
...
So why do you always quote in Jacobean English, Sassy?
Do you not see the difference... The disciples knew the word of God the scriptures off by heart. The same way today people are taught by God.
Maybe the answer you have given says more about what you lack...
Yes, learning Scripture off by heart is great.
So, for the third time, why do you always quote in Jacobean English, Sassy?
-
Gordon Bennett, Alan....you're REALLY stirring it....! :D
Just being Anglican, my wee friend. Article of the 39 articles says, "It is a thing plainly repugnant to the Word of God and the custom primitive Church to have public prayer in the Church, or to minister the Sacraments, in a tongue not understanded of the people." It is similar with the Scriptures. At the Reformation there was a great emphasis on the Scriptures with the various translations into people's own languages. The point was to help people understand what the Scriptures say. That's why using the KJV is such an anachronism. It was published to help people understand the Word of God in English yet now it is difficult to understand. It did its job and we should be thankful for it, but not faff around still using it.
If people (mistakenly) want to use a translation based on the Majority Text/Textus Receptus, use the NKJV.
I suppose you could say you ignore the contents of the OT in favour of the teachings of man.
The Jews learn their scripture off by heart. Hence proved by the fact they did not have personal Torahs. The truth is as Christ spoke the disciples recalled what was written in the scriptures. But more importantly Christ taught that the Spirit would lead and teach them in all truth. The disciples acknowledge that the words of God came to man by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit lives in the true believer and talks to them, teaches them and guides them in the way of The One True God.
As Jesus said:
John 4:24King James Version (KJV)
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The Gentiles did not know the Jewish teachings but upon hearing Peter speak the truth they believed and received Gods Holy Spirit. It was the power of Gods Holy Spirit which allowed them live in the truth of Gods teachings.
The Spirit the one and only true teacher..." My words are Spirit and they are life"
Now Gods home is with man and his Kingdom is within us.
It could be you never read the OT and did not know the promises.
As Christ said:
Matthew 5:17-20King James Version (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
If in Christ and the Spirit, you do not come under the Law. Why do you think that is so?
-
Given the truth of Scriptures in the OT and the teachings how does the WORDS of God remains secure today?
Spirit and Truth....
OK, so you're Islamic in outlook are you? The way to read and understand the Scriptures is to use those texts that are in their original languages? Perhaps you would rather use the oldest English translations, like Wyclif's, Tyndale's, Coverdale's, etc., on which the King James Bible was based?
So, in addition to Alan's third asking of the question, here's my 4th or 5th asking of it - why do you only quote from the 1611 King James Version?
-
The Jews learn their scripture off by heart. Hence proved by the fact they did not have personal Torahs.
How many Jews also read the Torah? Historically, how many Jews were able to read?
The truth is as Christ spoke the disciples recalled what was written in the scriptures. But more importantly Christ taught that the Spirit would lead and teach them in all truth. The disciples acknowledge that the words of God came to man by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit lives in the true believer and talks to them, teaches them and guides them in the way of The One True God.
I would not disagree, Sass, but where does it say that the Holy Spirit won't use a written text, in the believer's own language, to lead and teach them in all truth?
-
Gordon Bennett, Alan....you're REALLY stirring it....! :D
Just being Anglican, my wee friend. Article of the 39 articles says, "It is a thing plainly repugnant to the Word of God and the custom primitive Church to have public prayer in the Church, or to minister the Sacraments, in a tongue not understanded of the people." It is similar with the Scriptures. At the Reformation there was a great emphasis on the Scriptures with the various translations into people's own languages. The point was to help people understand what the Scriptures say. That's why using the KJV is such an anachronism. It was published to help people understand the Word of God in English yet now it is difficult to understand. It did its job and we should be thankful for it, but not faff around still using it.
If people (mistakenly) want to use a translation based on the Majority Text/Textus Receptus, use the NKJV.
I suppose you could say you ignore the contents of the OT in favour of the teachings of man.
The Jews learn their scripture off by heart. Hence proved by the fact they did not have personal Torahs. The truth is as Christ spoke the disciples recalled what was written in the scriptures. But more importantly Christ taught that the Spirit would lead and teach them in all truth. The disciples acknowledge that the words of God came to man by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit lives in the true believer and talks to them, teaches them and guides them in the way of The One True God.
As Jesus said:
John 4:24King James Version (KJV)
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The Gentiles did not know the Jewish teachings but upon hearing Peter speak the truth they believed and received Gods Holy Spirit. It was the power of Gods Holy Spirit which allowed them live in the truth of Gods teachings.
The Spirit the one and only true teacher..." My words are Spirit and they are life"
Now Gods home is with man and his Kingdom is within us.
It could be you never read the OT and did not know the promises.
As Christ said:
Matthew 5:17-20King James Version (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
If in Christ and the Spirit, you do not come under the Law. Why do you think that is so?
OK, but, for the fourth time, why do you only quote the Scriptures in Jacobean English?
-
Maybe there is a text in the KJV I've missed somewhere....
"Veriliy, thou must learn and understand the foibles and mistranslations contained within the KJV, for it is the language unto which only those who are righteous shall cleave. And, having perceived the meaning within, shalt thou therefore pray to Me only in this tongue, for without it, thou are condemned."