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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: trippymonkey on September 13, 2015, 04:43:19 PM

Title: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 13, 2015, 04:43:19 PM
Might seem a silly question to some BUT...

What exactly IS God's job? What does 'He' do all day ? :o

Wouldn't His power be enough to sustain this universe without Him needing to 'press any buttons' like someone watching over, say, a nuclear plant ???
 
Hasn't He got 'little godletts' around Him as suggested in The Bible & other faiths, like angels, doing odd jobs etc ?? 8) ???

This is a question for ALL of us here & not aimed at any one faith or idea. ;) :D

Nick
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: floo on September 13, 2015, 05:17:48 PM
Might seem a silly question to some BUT...

What exactly IS God's job? What does 'He' do all day ? :o

Wouldn't His power be enough to sustain this universe without Him needing to 'press any buttons' like someone watching over, say, a nuclear plant ???
 
Hasn't He got 'little godletts' around Him as suggested in The Bible & other faiths, like angels, doing odd jobs etc ?? 8) ???

This is a question for ALL of us here & not aimed at any one faith or idea. ;) :D

Nick

I should think the deity spends all day entertained by the antics of the humans it created for its amusement!
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: ekim on September 13, 2015, 05:24:38 PM
If it's the Hindu God then 'play' ....  'Lila' I think it is called.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: 2Corrie on September 13, 2015, 06:50:00 PM
I should imagine He reads the contents of this forum and weeps
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: jeremyp on September 13, 2015, 07:09:41 PM
I should imagine He reads the contents of this forum and weeps
Yes, some of the Christians seem to have very unchristian attitudes.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: 2Corrie on September 13, 2015, 07:24:21 PM
I should imagine He reads the contents of this forum and weeps
Yes, some of the Christians seem to have very unchristian attitudes.

but the angels in heaven rejoice at their repentance and they are not lost.

much more cause to weep over the lost and unrepentant
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Shaker on September 13, 2015, 07:25:44 PM
but the angels in heaven rejoice at their repentance and they are not lost.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Hope on September 13, 2015, 07:29:50 PM
Pics or it didn't happen.
OK, shakes, can you provide any pictures of your conception or birth?  If not, obviously neither happened, and you're just a figment of our imagination.  ;)
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Shaker on September 13, 2015, 07:32:42 PM
OK, shakes, can you provide any pictures of your conception or birth? If not, obviously neither happened, and you're just a figment of our imagination.  ;)
The fact that I exist here and now is a logically inevitable outcome of there having been a conception and a birth - just as it's a logical inevitability that I had ancestors in 1443 though I don't have pictures of them either. If they hadn't existed, neither would I.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Hope on September 13, 2015, 07:41:01 PM
If they hadn't existed, neither would I.
Is that strictly true under evolutionary theory?  ;)

What I was pointing out, humorously I'd hoped, was that the lack of pics isn't proof that something didn't occur - and you've just confirmed that, thus contradicting your previous post.  Thanks.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Shaker on September 13, 2015, 07:42:33 PM
What I was pointing out, humorously I'd hoped
Nah, we've seen your attempts at humour before and they're no laughing matter.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Owlswing on September 13, 2015, 08:37:07 PM
My guess is that they sit all day with wads of cotton wool in their ears trying to ignore the selfish pleadings of millions of their adherents!

With the occasional scream of "Will you ALL please shut the fuck up for five minutes!"
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Rhiannon on September 13, 2015, 08:49:23 PM
I should imagine He reads the contents of this forum and weeps
Yes, some of the Christians seem to have very unchristian attitudes.

but the angels in heaven rejoice at their repentance and they are not lost.

much more cause to weep over the lost and unrepentant

Unless of course it is the unloving Christians who turn non-believers away. Or is belief more important than love?
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: ippy on September 13, 2015, 09:58:07 PM
Might seem a silly question to some BUT...

What exactly IS God's job? What does 'He' do all day ? :o

Wouldn't His power be enough to sustain this universe without Him needing to 'press any buttons' like someone watching over, say, a nuclear plant ???
 
Hasn't He got 'little godletts' around Him as suggested in The Bible & other faiths, like angels, doing odd jobs etc ?? 8) ???

This is a question for ALL of us here & not aimed at any one faith or idea. ;) :D

Nick

Could be keeping Father Christmas company, grooming Unicorns or placing fairies at the bottom of our gardens?

ippy
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 13, 2015, 10:00:40 PM
I'm glad there's been a lighthearted set of responses on this topic but let's keep it, for now, to the idea that God DOES exist.

SOOO What the heck does He do with His time ????
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: 2Corrie on September 13, 2015, 10:37:19 PM
I should imagine He reads the contents of this forum and weeps
Yes, some of the Christians seem to have very unchristian attitudes.

but the angels in heaven rejoice at their repentance and they are not lost.

much more cause to weep over the lost and unrepentant

Unless of course it is the unloving Christians who turn non-believers away. Or is belief more important than love?

Excuses, I think all the unbelievers on here made their minds up long before that. It's Christ people should be looking to not people posting on message boards.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Shaker on September 13, 2015, 10:50:42 PM
I'll stick with the people posting on message boards, swayed as I am by the fact that at least they exist.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Rhiannon on September 14, 2015, 06:28:18 AM
I should imagine He reads the contents of this forum and weeps
Yes, some of the Christians seem to have very unchristian attitudes.

but the angels in heaven rejoice at their repentance and they are not lost.

much more cause to weep over the lost and unrepentant

Unless of course it is the unloving Christians who turn non-believers away. Or is belief more important than love?

Excuses, I think all the unbelievers on here made their minds up long before that. It's Christ people should be looking to not people posting on message boards.

You make both him and his father sound harsh, arrogant and unloving. I wouldn't want to engage with Christianity as you present it.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 07:42:11 AM
My guess is that they sit all day with wads of cotton wool in their ears trying to ignore the selfish pleadings of millions of their adherents!

With the occasional sream of "Will you ALL please shut the fuck up for five minutes!"

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 07:48:07 AM
God doesn't have a job.
Because "God " isn't human.

People want to make "God" responsible for things out of their control or for things they don't want to take responsibility for.

If God created the universe, how we exist in it, is our responsibility.

This is it, it's down to you.

Human beings have potential, it's up to us to use it.

If we don't something else will replace us.

Life will carry on, provided the planet can still support it.

If "God" created the universe, Rose, it is entirely his responsibility, the good and the bad ... love and hate.

Humans can only try to make the best of what they are lumbered with.

Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Owlswing on September 14, 2015, 08:01:06 AM
I should imagine He reads the contents of this forum and weeps
Yes, some of the Christians seem to have very unchristian attitudes.

but the angels in heaven rejoice at their repentance and they are not lost.

much more cause to weep over the lost and unrepentant

Unless of course it is the unloving Christians who turn non-believers away. Or is belief more important than love?

Excuses, I think all the unbelievers on here made their minds up long before that. It's Christ people should be looking to not people posting on message boards.

You make both him and his father sound harsh, arrogant and unloving. I wouldn't want to engage with Christianity as you present it.

Agreed!
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Owlswing on September 14, 2015, 08:03:47 AM
God doesn't have a job.
Because "God " isn't human.

People want to make "God" responsible for things out of their control or for things they don't want to take responsibility for.

If God created the universe, how we exist in it, is our responsibility.

This is it, it's down to you.

Human beings have potential, it's up to us to use it.

If we don't something else will replace us.

Life will carry on, provided the planet can still support it.

If "God" created the universe, Rose, it is entirely his responsibility, the good and the bad ... love and hate.

Humans can only try to make the best of what they are lumbered with.

Again - Agreed!
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 08:20:32 AM

If something created the universe as a working system, it isn't responsible for what we make of it.

Anymore than we are responsible for the bacteria that result from the consquenses of our actions.

Bacteria evolved long before we did.

Quote
I'm alive, what I make of it is up to me.

Precisely, and those of us with any sense do the same.

Quote
Unless someone uses God to avoid all the questions they don't like, or don't want to accept to be responsible for.

People who believe in "God" have to sort that one out for themselves. I don't have the problem.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: floo on September 14, 2015, 08:22:24 AM
I should imagine He reads the contents of this forum and weeps

Yeh right! ;D
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: floo on September 14, 2015, 08:23:38 AM
I should imagine He reads the contents of this forum and weeps
Yes, some of the Christians seem to have very unchristian attitudes.

but the angels in heaven rejoice at their repentance and they are not lost.

much more cause to weep over the lost and unrepentant

Unless of course it is the unloving Christians who turn non-believers away. Or is belief more important than love?

Excuses, I think all the unbelievers on here made their minds up long before that. It's Christ people should be looking to not people posting on message boards.

That guy was human and not perfect either!
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Rhiannon on September 14, 2015, 08:25:14 AM
Didn't we evolve from bacteria?
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 08:27:37 AM

We are not " lumbered " with life, we are given a life and it's up to us to find its potential.

"Given a life" is a rather loaded way of saying that we are part of the evolutionary process which is life.

Quote
No one owes us a bed of roses.

Like the sone by Lynn Anderson " I never promised you a rose garden"

We expect to much.

Speak for yourself. I don't expect anything ... I make the best of what genes I inherited.

Quote
A creator, is just that, a creator.

I take it you are referring to the cause of the universe.

Quote
You get what you get, sometimes through no fault of your own it goes wrong.

You get cancer, that is not a creators "fault"  that is just life.

As I have already pointed out, I am aware of that. It is the "God" believers that have to deal with the problem.

Quote
There are so many other things to be grateful for.

The obsession religions give to the avoidance of death and the daft twistings of reality to support it, can only be described as sad.

I would use the adjective "idiotic". :)
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 08:31:48 AM
Didn't we evolve from bacteria?

Bacteria are part of the same evolutionary tree if life.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 14, 2015, 08:33:37 AM
SO Rose...
What you're saying is.... YOUR God is NOT the ultimate being EVER ?!?!? It must be if you're saying He's not ultimately responsible for everything.
So a scientist is NOT responsible if he inadvertantly creates a virus that wipes out humanity ????

We're 'talking' about GOD here not some backstreet monkey in a third rate lab !!!
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Rhiannon on September 14, 2015, 08:36:43 AM
Can't speak for Rose, Trippy, but in order for God to be to blame for something he/she/it would have to be consciously creating, judging and destroying. That's not how I see God at all.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 14, 2015, 08:40:36 AM
OK But is He not, though ?!?!!?
I know there's certain trains of thought that believe God creates & then just sits back....

Maybe it's not how YOU see God but doesn't mean what you say isn't true, does it?

Again I ask.... Is God not supporting & sustaining ALL things???
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Rhiannon on September 14, 2015, 08:43:29 AM
To me God is all things. So death and decay is a part of god, just as birth and life are. God doesn't create, god is creation.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 14, 2015, 08:47:44 AM
MMMM !!! Interesting?!?!
Could you elaborate, please?

N
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Hope on September 14, 2015, 08:50:26 AM
To me God is all things. So death and decay is a part of god, just as birth and life are. God doesn't create, god is creation.
So what initiated creation, Rhi?  Or is this simply another way of referring to a sentient being from which everything came into being?
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Sassy on September 14, 2015, 08:53:15 AM
Might seem a silly question to some BUT...

What exactly IS God's job? What does 'He' do all day ? :o

Wouldn't His power be enough to sustain this universe without Him needing to 'press any buttons' like someone watching over, say, a nuclear plant ???

Why Trippy?

Why the questions?

You ask what God does then imply you believe he sustains the Universe by pressing buttons. I am not sure you or I could understand fully the power of God.
He isn't like a man with man built nuclear power plants.
Man creates these power plants and harnesses power. God is the power which created us.  So Gods complete knowledge and care of us is secured by himself.

 
Quote
Hasn't He got 'little godletts' around Him as suggested in The Bible & other faiths, like angels, doing odd jobs etc ?? 8) ???

Is that the angels who interact the messengers?
Those angels who save and tend to mans needs...
Why do they need to be involved with the Universe itself? God has that in hand.
Quote
This is a question for ALL of us here & not aimed at any one faith or idea. ;) :D

Nick

I am more interested in your purpose. If you know God has angels and what the bible tells us about them. Why the   questions?
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Sassy on September 14, 2015, 08:58:28 AM
I should imagine He reads the contents of this forum and weeps

Nah! This is God we are talking about...

King James Bible
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Gods complete knowledge and care of all he has made assures us that he does not read this forum and weep.
King James Bible
For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.


God knows everything and he has all things in his hands and all things in his own time... :)
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Sassy on September 14, 2015, 09:05:06 AM
There has been a few messages judging God without any real grounds or evidence.
Gods proof he loves us, is he hasn't destroyed us for our sinful nature but provided a way back to him.

Gods love is such he never turns anyone away. But you all have a choice to know God and you throw it back in his face. Love is a two way street and there is very little love shown by atheist on this board to believers. Yet they think they deserve it to be shown to them. It is weird how they want something they themselves are not willing to give. Perhaps the answer lies with themselves. You cannot expect to receive from other humans what you are not prepared to give yourselves.

God loved the world he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth shall not perish but have eternal life. Yes he knew some would fall away and others would insult Christ but he loved us enough to let him die for the ungodly. It is your choice to accept or refuse. You love your own life more than the truth.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Sassy on September 14, 2015, 09:08:45 AM
Didn't we evolve from bacteria?

So where did the bacteria evolve from and why are things still not evolving from bacteria. Where did the light and oxygen come from as well as the water?

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


The people of God had the answers long before the scientist used his words as a basis for teaching.

God made us and nowhere can a science book tell you how creation could come from a bacteria and stop so no more evolved. It didn't happen God created us.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: floo on September 14, 2015, 09:28:21 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Shaker on September 14, 2015, 10:15:24 AM
Love is a two way street and there is very little love shown by atheist on this board to believers.
There are reasons for that.
Quote
Yet they think they deserve it to be shown to them.
Do they? Who does? Specifically.
Quote
It is weird how they want something they themselves are not willing to give.

For love I have family and friends. As for plenty here, I can do without their "love"; I'd sooner have some signs of a spark of intelligence.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: floo on September 14, 2015, 10:27:32 AM
I reckon we can do without the deity's brand of 'love'!
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Andy on September 14, 2015, 10:28:59 AM
Which god are we talking about, or can I make one up?
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 10:29:49 AM
No bacteria are evolving all the time.

Recently I came across this which I thought was very interesting

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/13/health/microbe-genes-human-dna-evolution/

Some of our genes are  thought to be a result of horizontal transference, blood groups for example.

The point is that they are as evolving as bacteria ... nothing more, like all other species they adapt to their environment. But the evolutionary path taken by all the rest of the life forms was much more radical, and for all we know will continue beyond homo sapiens.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Shaker on September 14, 2015, 10:30:10 AM
Which god are we talking about, or can I make one up?
Why not? Everybody else does.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 10:33:29 AM
There has been a few messages judging God without any real grounds or evidence.
Gods proof he loves us, is he hasn't destroyed us for our sinful nature but provided a way back to him.

Gods love is such he never turns anyone away. But you all have a choice to know God and you throw it back in his face. Love is a two way street and there is very little love shown by atheist on this board to believers. Yet they think they deserve it to be shown to them. It is weird how they want something they themselves are not willing to give. Perhaps the answer lies with themselves. You cannot expect to receive from other humans what you are not prepared to give yourselves.

God loved the world he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth shall not perish but have eternal life. Yes he knew some would fall away and others would insult Christ but he loved us enough to let him die for the ungodly. It is your choice to accept or refuse. You love your own life more than the truth.

Yes, Sassy, we know that is what your "holy" book proclaims, but sadly it is only the wishful thinking of a bygone people, and bears no resemblance to the real world.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: floo on September 14, 2015, 10:33:51 AM
Which god are we talking about, or can I make one up?

I have created my own god, easy peasy,it answers to me, and me only! ;D ALL gods are human creations, imo.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 10:34:46 AM
Which god are we talking about, or can I make one up?

Go for it!

What does your God do?

What on earth makes you think there are any gods at all, let alone what they do?
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 10:46:54 AM
Which god are we talking about, or can I make one up?

Go for it!

What does your God do?

What on earth makes you think there are any gods at all, let alone what they do?

I was just giving Andy the opportunity to put his tuppence in  :D

My experiences in life makes me think there is "something " to it or at least something more than we know about.

What they do, is purely speculation, something I am not adverse to  :P

I am well aware that there is an enormous amount of stuff that we know nothing about, but nothing in my life indicates the existence of any sort of "God".

If you enjoy that sort of guessing game, fine, Rose, but when the know alls here try to convince us that it is anything more than guesswork, they must accept challenge.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Andy on September 14, 2015, 10:53:23 AM
Which god are we talking about, or can I make one up?

Go for it!

What does your God do?

Hmm, perhaps the atheist god - a steady deist god who sits outside the universe without foreknowledge or ever being able to interfere with it, but watches on with a metaphysical face palm as humanity makes a complete bollocks of figuring him out by making up any old tosh about him. He doesn't want to spend eternity with gullible people who believe things on faith. He wants sceptics, critical thinkers - people who don't just blindingly follow the dictates of false god characters by surrendering their moral agency.

Still, he's a bit of a bell end all the same for offering infinite rewards for finite deeds, but even he isn't perfect.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: ippy on September 14, 2015, 10:59:09 AM
I'm glad there's been a lighthearted set of responses on this topic but let's keep it, for now, to the idea that God DOES exist.

SOOO What the heck does He do with His time ????

It's as near to zero likelihood that there's anything there that could be doing anything, well there's no evidence that says otherwise.

Bit of a pointless question?

ippy
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Outrider on September 14, 2015, 11:49:36 AM
I'm glad there's been a lighthearted set of responses on this topic but let's keep it, for now, to the idea that God DOES exist.

SOOO What the heck does He do with His time ????

What time? I'm not up on Hindu theology, or much animism, but I'm presuming the question is primarily concerning the Abrahamic deity anyway so...

If God exists outside of the universe, time as we experience isn't something that happens. God is aware of the entire timespan of the universe, because time is simply another dimension that already exists in its entirety. We experience time from our limited view of that one dimension as we move along it, inside the universe.

Outside the universe, our time isn't there, it's a facet of the universe we exist in, that God - already extant - created.

Obviously, not my personal view, just the conclusions of Christian theology, so far as I've managed to understand it.

O.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 12:36:01 PM


Outside the universe, our time isn't there, it's a facet of the universe we exist in, that God - already extant - created.


O.

Using the word "already" in this phrase suggests there was a time before the universe was created, when "God" was extant but the universe wasn't.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Outrider on September 14, 2015, 12:45:53 PM


Outside the universe, our time isn't there, it's a facet of the universe we exist in, that God - already extant - created.


O.

Using the word "already" in this phrase suggests there was a time before the universe was created, when "God" was extant but the universe wasn't.

From inside, where time exists, it occured before that time, so therefore God 'already' existed - from God's point of view God still existed - our language and cognitive structure don't deal well with extra-temporal concepts, it's outside of the framework in which we develop our cognitive mechanisms.

O.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 12:50:33 PM

From inside, where time exists, it occured before that time, so therefore God 'already' existed - from God's point of view God still existed - our language and cognitive structure don't deal well with extra-temporal concepts, it's outside of the framework in which we develop our cognitive mechanisms.

O.

So "God" and the universe have always existed. If that is the case how can "God" have created it, if it was co-existent with him?
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 14, 2015, 12:55:12 PM
At times when we end up in the talk of not living in the same dimensions, I am reminded of the novella described in the link below. And yet notionally in that, it seems the more dimensions one is 'in' then the more complex one's knowledge is. As Outrider says, I think once we talk about concepts such as existence, which are definitionally time infused, being outside time we have fallen into a linguistic black hole of self referential meaninglessness

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 14, 2015, 01:04:01 PM
At times when we end up in the talk of not living in the same dimensions, I am reminded of the novella described in the link below. And yet notionally in that, it seems the more dimensions one is 'in' then the more complex one's knowledge is. As Outrider says, I think once we talk about concepts such as existence, which are definitionally time infused, being outside time we have fallen into a linguistic black hole of self referential meaninglessness


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I am not quite sure what that means exactly, but it certainly seems meaningless to me! :)
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Outrider on September 14, 2015, 01:06:54 PM
At times when we end up in the talk of not living in the same dimensions, I am reminded of the novella described in the link below. And yet notionally in that, it seems the more dimensions one is 'in' then the more complex one's knowledge is. As Outrider says, I think once we talk about concepts such as existence, which are definitionally time infused, being outside time we have fallen into a linguistic black hole of self referential meaninglessness

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

Great book, one of the first I bought on my Kindle.

This is one of the areas where theology starts to approach literal meaningless - the ignostic arguments start to have more of a bearing the deeper into the concept of gods you get.

O.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Andy on September 14, 2015, 01:10:24 PM
At times when we end up in the talk of not living in the same dimensions, I am reminded of the novella described in the link below. And yet notionally in that, it seems the more dimensions one is 'in' then the more complex one's knowledge is. As Outrider says, I think once we talk about concepts such as existence, which are definitionally time infused, being outside time we have fallen into a linguistic black hole of self referential meaninglessness

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

Great book, one of the first I bought on my Kindle.

This is one of the areas where theology starts to approach literal meaningless - the ignostic arguments start to have more of a bearing the deeper into the concept of gods you get.

O.

It's when the use of logic even breaks down, not so that things become illogical, but alogical.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 14, 2015, 01:13:57 PM
To be fair, it's not just theology but science and philosophy which break down, because of it being viewed by our time bound physical views, as already pointed out by Outrider.


If we are talking about intention or action or existence and remove the time dimension, we are creating mere gibberish.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 14, 2015, 01:17:40 PM
Of course, there is the theological approach to this that because it is absurd or alogical it should be believed, but that as be the ultimate deepity
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Sebastian Toe on September 14, 2015, 01:19:08 PM
At times when we end up in the talk of not living in the same dimensions, I am reminded of the novella described in the link below. And yet notionally in that, it seems the more dimensions one is 'in' then the more complex one's knowledge is. As Outrider says, I think once we talk about concepts such as existence, which are definitionally time infused, being outside time we have fallen into a linguistic black hole of self referential meaninglessness

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

or watch the film ......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyuNrm4VK2w
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Outrider on September 14, 2015, 01:21:00 PM
To be fair, it's not just theology but science and philosophy which break down, because of it being viewed by our time bound physical views, as already pointed out by Outrider.

Science starts to get around the linguistic limitations by resorting to maths, but Theology doesn't seem to have a corollary for that.

O.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 14, 2015, 01:33:33 PM
My maths is not good enough to comment on whether it can be used.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Outrider on September 14, 2015, 01:37:33 PM
My maths is not good enough to comment on whether it can be used.

Nor mine, but I'm assured it can be used - part of the problem comes if you try to then translate your conclusions back into language :)

In a similar manner to the confusion that comes when pre-existing terms (like 'spin') are used in quantum matters, where the behaviours aren't directly analogous to macroscopic phenomena, the potential for confusion seems obvious, but in fact that's understating it.

When the phenomena you are describing aren't even analogous to real-life phenomena - can't even be considered phenomena, because phenomena requires time, for instance - then not just our language but the structure of our understanding that we try to represent with language is insufficient.

O.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Rhiannon on September 14, 2015, 08:47:22 PM
MMMM !!! Interesting?!?!
Could you elaborate, please?

N

I'm a pantheist, so to me the way the natural world operates is a part of divinity.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 15, 2015, 03:42:45 PM
I'm glad there's been a lighthearted set of responses on this topic but let's keep it, for now, to the idea that God DOES exist.

SOOO What the heck does He do with His time ????

It's as near to zero likelihood that there's anything there that could be doing anything, well there's no evidence that says otherwise.

Bit of a pointless question?

ippy

Only for YOU. ;) BYEEEEEE
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 15, 2015, 07:28:08 PM
I'm glad there's been a lighthearted set of responses on this topic but let's keep it, for now, to the idea that God DOES exist.

SOOO What the heck does He do with His time ????

It's as near to zero likelihood that there's anything there that could be doing anything, well there's no evidence that says otherwise.

Bit of a pointless question?

ippy

Only for YOU. ;) BYEEEEEE

No, it is pointless for me too, and I'm sure for many other people.  :)
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 15, 2015, 08:22:00 PM
That's OK !!!
At least I won't condemn you for it ?!?!?!?  ;) 8)
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 15, 2015, 08:25:14 PM
MMMM !!! Interesting?!?!
Could you elaborate, please?

N

I'm a pantheist, so to me the way the natural world operates is a part of divinity.

I lean heavily towards Hinduism which I think is pretty compatible with pantheism, no???
How can anything exist outside God? God is like some divine gardener that goes home for His tea & comes back when it's light & He can see ?!?!?!?!??

Doesn't make an ounce of sense to me, THAT kind of God. ???

Nick
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Leonard James on September 15, 2015, 09:06:24 PM

Doesn't make an ounce of sense to me, THAT kind of God. ???

Nick

I don't think "God" makes sense to anybody, but for many he is a sort of friend and big daddy they can rely on.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Hope on September 16, 2015, 07:19:30 PM
He doesn't want to spend eternity with gullible people who believe things on faith. He wants sceptics, critical thinkers - people who don't just blindingly follow the dictates of false god characters by surrendering their moral agency.
That might well explain why some here, religious  and atheist alike, could well struggle to enter their respective heavens as a result of gullibly accepting explanations from websites as diverse as answersingenesis and whyevolutionistrue
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Shaker on September 16, 2015, 07:38:54 PM
He doesn't want to spend eternity with gullible people who believe things on faith. He wants sceptics, critical thinkers - people who don't just blindingly follow the dictates of false god characters by surrendering their moral agency.
That might well explain why some here, religious  and atheist alike, could well struggle to enter their respective heavens as a result of gullibly accepting explanations from websites as diverse as answersingenesis and whyevolutionistrue
Websites consisting of hard scientific evidence like WEIT (created and maintained by an eminent geneticist and speciation expert) as compared to toytown la-la land nonsense such as AIG - where's the comparison here? Why are they mentioned in the same sentence?
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Andy on September 16, 2015, 08:14:53 PM
He doesn't want to spend eternity with gullible people who believe things on faith. He wants sceptics, critical thinkers - people who don't just blindingly follow the dictates of false god characters by surrendering their moral agency.
That might well explain why some here, religious  and atheist alike, could well struggle to enter their respective heavens as a result of gullibly accepting explanations from websites as diverse as answersingenesis and whyevolutionistrue

 ::)
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: ippy on September 17, 2015, 12:02:52 AM
I'm glad there's been a lighthearted set of responses on this topic but let's keep it, for now, to the idea that God DOES exist.

SOOO What the heck does He do with His time ????

It's as near to zero likelihood that there's anything there that could be doing anything, well there's no evidence that says otherwise.

Bit of a pointless question?

ippy

Only for YOU. ;) BYEEEEEE

How come you let yourself become so indoctrinated with that religion nonsense, Trip,  monkey.

ippy
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 17, 2015, 06:46:33 AM
LOL I'm NOT indoctrinated or I'd be going WIBBLE WIBBLE all over the place like certain here do regularly. Telling everyone what to do & anything THEY think or believe is WRONG WRONG WRONG cos it's not what I believe ?!!??!??!!?!??

 ;) ::) ::) ::) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: jeremyp on September 17, 2015, 08:43:34 AM
That might well explain why some here, religious  and atheist alike, could well struggle to enter their respective heavens as a result of gullibly accepting explanations from websites as diverse as answersingenesis and whyevolutionistrue

You haven't read any of WEIT, I take it. It couldn't be more of a contrast to AiG if it tried.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: ippy on September 17, 2015, 03:36:55 PM
LOL I'm NOT indoctrinated or I'd be going WIBBLE WIBBLE all over the place like certain here do regularly. Telling everyone what to do & anything THEY think or believe is WRONG WRONG WRONG cos it's not what I believe ?!!??!??!!?!??

 ;) ::) ::) ::) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

I see, emphasis on the Trip.

ippy
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 18, 2015, 12:16:06 AM
MMMM Has a certain J C's retort been removed by anyone OR himself? I had a reply sent to my email but it's not here.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: OH MY WORLD! on September 18, 2015, 12:20:23 AM
Mr. monkey,
You don't mean a retort from me do you?
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 18, 2015, 12:21:48 AM
Yeah It says you made a post but it's not here,between my previous & the one before ?!!?!?
What happened ???
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: OH MY WORLD! on September 18, 2015, 12:24:13 AM
Oh, I get it. Ya, it was meant for matty's thread on food for thought. I put it here by accident and caught it before anybody saw it. Sorry
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Owlswing on September 18, 2015, 12:49:28 AM
Yeah It says you made a post but it's not here,between my previous & the one before ?!!?!?
What happened ???

Believe me you did not miss anything worth seeing!
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: trippymonkey on September 18, 2015, 08:10:17 AM
OOH Children Children !!! LOL  ;D ;D
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: jakswan on September 18, 2015, 08:17:07 AM
He doesn't want to spend eternity with gullible people who believe things on faith. He wants sceptics, critical thinkers - people who don't just blindingly follow the dictates of false god characters by surrendering their moral agency.
That might well explain why some here, religious  and atheist alike, could well struggle to enter their respective heavens as a result of gullibly accepting explanations from websites as diverse as answersingenesis and whyevolutionistrue
Websites consisting of hard scientific evidence like WEIT (created and maintained by an eminent geneticist and speciation expert) as compared to toytown la-la land nonsense such as AIG - where's the comparison here? Why are they mentioned in the same sentence?

Yes but if you showed those sites to a six year old they would think of them as comparable. ....
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Sassy on October 21, 2015, 05:26:00 PM
No bacteria are evolving all the time.

Recently I came across this which I thought was very interesting

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/13/health/microbe-genes-human-dna-evolution/

Some of our genes are  thought to be a result of horizontal transference, blood groups for example.

Forgive me Rose,

I mean no offence when I say this... The idea is that Humans etc evolved from bacteria. Hence no new species coming from bacteria. And we might find strains of bacteria not discovered till now, But who is to say they were not always there.

The earth is not old enough according to science for man to have evolved from bacteria.

 :)
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Hope on October 21, 2015, 09:13:53 PM
Websites consisting of hard scientific evidence like WEIT (created and maintained by an eminent geneticist and speciation expert) as compared to toytown la-la land nonsense such as AIG - where's the comparison here? Why are they mentioned in the same sentence?
Shakes, they're mentioned in the same sentence because the 'hard scientific evidence' is still man-generated.  It is no less confirmation-bias than something like AiG because we are only able to see it from our own perspective. 
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Hope on October 21, 2015, 09:19:23 PM
You haven't read any of WEIT, I take it. It couldn't be more of a contrast to AiG if it tried.
I've read more of WEIT than I have of AiG, jeremy.  In fact I steer clear of AiG, and the only stuff I've read of it is stuff that has been quoted on threads like this, by people using it to prove whatever position they want to take.  So, I have to admit that I'm basing my opinion on the AiG material I've seen quoted over the years they've both existed. 
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Owlswing on October 21, 2015, 09:20:51 PM


The earth is not old enough according to science for man to have evolved from bacteria.

 :)

Over 100 million years not enough?
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Hope on October 21, 2015, 09:21:50 PM
Yes but if you showed those sites to a six year old they would think of them as comparable. ....
jakswan, they are very much comparable: contributors and those who run them both regard their particular position as the only valid understanding of 'life, the universe and everything'.
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Hope on October 21, 2015, 09:23:37 PM
Over 100 million years not enough?
Is there any evidence that that period has been long enough?  For instance, how long did it take for multicelled bacteria to even come into existence?
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Owlswing on October 21, 2015, 09:50:41 PM
Over 100 million years not enough?
Is there any evidence that that period has been long enough?  For instance, how long did it take for multicelled bacteria to even come into existence?

Ask a scientist or Google it!
Title: Re: God's Job ?!?!?!
Post by: Andy on October 21, 2015, 09:57:10 PM
Over 100 million years not enough?
Is there any evidence that that period has been long enough?  For instance, how long did it take for multicelled bacteria to even come into existence?

Ask a scientist or Google it!
Doesn't need to. "If God, why not?"