Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: floo on September 15, 2015, 02:14:57 PM
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I wouldn't describe it as burny burny (it is a rather childish description) but me. I believe it.
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I wouldn't describe it as burny burny (it is a rather childish description) but me. I believe it.
Don't you think a deity prepared to send people to burn for all eternity in a lake of fire, for nothing worse than mere unbelief, is an evil psychopath to say the very least?
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I wouldn't describe it as burny burny (it is a rather childish description) but me. I believe it.
Don't you think a deity prepared to send people to burn for all eternity in a lake of fire, for nothing worse than mere unbelief, is an evil psychopath to say the very least?
Ah the old 'God must be evil to send people to hell' chestnut. I do like it when non-Christians try new ways of disproving God but once in a while it is nice to hear the old classics.
Your question is easily answered by the way. As I am a Christian I therefore do not believe God to be evil. Since I already said that I believe non believers go to hell, obviously I don't think he is an evil psycopath.
Remember your original post said nothing about God sending them to hell.
Got anything original to say?
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"the burny-burny place" Sure, go ahead and laugh about it, for now.
"And I say unto you my friends, be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
But I forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell, yea, I say unto you, fear him." Luke 12: 4,5
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Don't you think a deity prepared to send people to burn for all eternity in a lake of fire, for nothing worse than mere unbelief, is an evil psychopath to say the very least?
Floo, do you know where the idea of hellfire comes from? And no, it doesn't start with Dante.
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Like FoJ I don't think I'd quite describe it in the way you have but yes, I do believe that all the unsaved will go to hell where they will suffer torment. The presence of God to the saved is blessed and to the unsaved torment. Moses says that "the sight of the glory of the Lord was like a burning fire" and the Apostle says to the Hebrews "our God is a consuming fire".
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There are 5 passages in the Old Testament that refer to a place called Hinnom (later becoming Gehenna, and translated 'Hell' in English). In each instance, this place was associated with the sacrificing of children by fire in connection with pagan rites - most likely to the Canaanite deity, Molech. Jewish people would have been aware of the connotations associated with that place and would have appreciated the horror of the place. It would probably have been a byword for horror and despicableness and used in an allegorical, pictorial sense by Jesus; after all, a lot of what he said was by the means of allegory and parable.
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I wouldn't describe it as burny burny (it is a rather childish description) but me. I believe it.
Don't you think a deity prepared to send people to burn for all eternity in a lake of fire, for nothing worse than mere unbelief, is an evil psychopath to say the very least?
Ah the old 'God must be evil to send people to hell' chestnut. I do like it when non-Christians try new ways of disproving God but once in a while it is nice to hear the old classics.
Your question is easily answered by the way. As I am a Christian I therefore do not believe God to be evil. Since I already said that I believe non believers go to hell, obviously I don't think he is an evil psycopath.
Remember your original post said nothing about God sending them to hell.
Got anything original to say?
Well of course the deity would be an evil b*stard if it sent people to hell for mere unbelief! Why would you think such a fate was reasonable?
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Well after reading that lot Christianity sounds a whole lot more attractive. ???
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As I am a Christian I therefore do not believe God to be evil. Since I already said that I believe non believers go to hell, obviously I don't think he is an evil psycopath.
I am trying to figure out how you are squaring that particular circle - but no, can't see it.
Do you think Hell is a punishment/bad place/ a place where the unsaved will suffer torment(ad-o's definition), what? A definition would perhaps help.
I can't see how God can simultaneously not be evil - and yet send unsaved souls to torment. That is quite a large chunk of humanity being tormented. You do know how strange all that sounds?
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Well after reading that lot Christianity sounds a whole lot more attractive. ???
Doesn't it just! ::) Although of course most mainstream Christians don't believe in the hell-fire garbage!
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So... God creates a system whereby people are not given proof, but have to rely on faith for a limited period under varying levels of hardship.
If, at the end of that temporary state, in the absence of conclusive evidence, they do not believe, they are condemned to an eternity of torture.
This, in your book, does not qualify as evil. Eternal torture for the crime of not accepting unverifiable assertions does not qualify as evil.
What the fuck does?
O.
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Well of course the deity would be an evil b*stard if it sent people to hell for mere unbelief! Why would you think such a fate was reasonable?
But does the Bible say that he sends anyone anywhere? Doesn't it say that individuals suffer, or enjoy, (depending on how you look at it) the consequences of their own choices? Would an 'evil b*stard' of a God be one who overrode those choices made in life?
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Mr. Out,
And you need to go gutter when asking a question?
I couldn't believe in God if He was subject to your human judgements. God is my judge and there is no higher authority.
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And you need to go gutter when asking a question?
??? You what?
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And THAT answers your quest.... oh sorry it doesn't does it ?????
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Well of course the deity would be an evil b*stard if it sent people to hell for mere unbelief! Why would you think such a fate was reasonable?
But does the Bible say that he sends anyone anywhere? Doesn't it say that individuals suffer, or enjoy, (depending on how you look at it) the consequences of their own choices? Would an 'evil b*stard' of a God be one who overrode those choices made in life?
I wasn't asking what the Bible had to say on the topic, I was asking Christians what they believed, which is often not one and the same!
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Well of course the deity would be an evil b*stard if it sent people to hell for mere unbelief! Why would you think such a fate was reasonable?
But does the Bible say that he sends anyone anywhere? Doesn't it say that individuals suffer, or enjoy, (depending on how you look at it) the consequences of their own choices? Would an 'evil b*stard' of a God be one who overrode those choices made in life?
Didn't that god create us? Didn't that god (presumably) create the place of torment? Didn't that god create the system whereby we end there by default of we don't accept unevidenced claims?
If I drag you to a cliff edge, hang you over the side by a thread and say 'if you struggle you'll fall', it doesn't make it a suicide.
O.
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Hope,
Bless you if you really don't know what I meant by going gutter.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gutter-talk
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The words of a psychopath?
"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the sovereign LORD,
Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? " (from Ezekiel)
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I wouldn't describe it as burny burny (it is a rather childish description) but me. I believe it.
Don't you think a deity prepared to send people to burn for all eternity in a lake of fire, for nothing worse than mere unbelief, is an evil psychopath to say the very least?
So being an unbeliever wipes one's moral slate clean. Isn't that a parody of the Christian Gospel?
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How many Christians on this forum believe that all the 'unsaved' are off to 'the burny-burny place' when they die? (I like that description Rhiannon ;D )
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Oh, look....yet another atheist post wondering aboiut hell......
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a bit of a fixation I would say. why not search the scriptures?
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a bit of a fixation I would say. why not search the scriptures?
For the very good reason that the scriptures, besides giving some good moral advice, contain much mythical nonsense that can mislead the undiscerning.
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How many Christians on this forum believe that all the 'unsaved' are off to 'the burny-burny place' when they die? (I like that description Rhiannon ;D )
Not me! The Bible is full of fantastic pictures that tell a story, conveying a truth. That was how it was done in days gone by, pity some people take it literally.
(As a child I saw a picture in a museum depicting Hell and it scared me for years.)
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And THAT'S the idea.
Gettem while they're young !!!!!
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How many Christians on this forum believe that all the 'unsaved' are off to 'the burny-burny place' when they die? (I like that description Rhiannon ;D )
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Oh, look....yet another atheist post wondering aboiut hell......
Hi Anchorman,
The idea of Hell doesn't concern me at all. So for this atheist it isn't a problem.
But it can be for others. For instance, I know a lady who, in the sixties, became pregnant whilst being an unmarried teenager. In those days that was socially unacceptable, So her only option was a mother and baby home resulting in adoption. The home that was chosen for her was run by a group of Catholic nuns. I won't go into detail about the unpleasantness that she had to put up with or how her baby was taken away from her, except to say that she was constantly reminded that she had no one to blame but herself, and that she had to pray to God for forgiveness or she would go to hell. I have, some time ago on this forum, given an account of her experiences told in her own words. This ended with this sentence.
"The ethos was coldness and punishment with the constant reminder that we were sinners and had to pray daily for Gods forgiveness."
I believe she was damaged by that experience, and I know that for many years she was haunted by the feeling that she had committed some terrible sin for which she had to pray to God to forgive her for, and the terrible emotional spectre of a hell figured strongly in her thoughts.
So, when you make what I consider a rather thoughtless comment like the one above, perhaps you could remember that for some people it can be an emotional scar which is hard to get rid of.
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HELL is not about controlling people. It is about complete and everlasting separation. Shame on people that do use it that way.
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Floo, you seem obsessed with 'hell'.... thread after thread.
Hell is just the grave, sheol.... the silent, dark, unseen resting-place of ALL the sleeping dead, the land of oblivion and forgetfulness -- and not the eternal, flaming torture-chamber of orthodox superstition man-made ideology.
See the meaning of the Hebrew word שְׁאוֹל, Sheol (Strong's 7585) translated Hell the Grave.
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Floo, do you know where the idea of hellfire comes from? .
I do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en1uwIzI3SE
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I believe she was damaged by that experience, and I know that for many years she was haunted by the feeling that she had committed some terrible sin for which she had to pray to God to forgive her for, and the terrible emotional spectre of a hell figured strongly in her thoughts.
So, when you make what I consider a rather thoughtless comment like the one above, perhaps you could remember that for some people it can be an emotional scar which is hard to get rid of.
Also, Google "Jill Mytton," interviewed by Richard Dawkins for the Root of All Evil? programme a few years back, and try and tell the rest of us that hell isn't used as a tool of threat, oppression and control.
You have to be a credulous gimp to believe in this obnoxious and pernicious twaddle in the first place, but to infect a child's mind with it - that's within spitting distance of evil.
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HELL is not about controlling people. It is about complete and everlasting separation.
From what?
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Read the Bible Shaker or try google for the answer. And then you can stand in front of a mirror and argue against it.
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Read the Bible Shaker or try google for the answer. And then you can stand in front of a mirror and argue against it.
Oh, you clearly don't know, then. OK.
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Sure I do and I encourage you to seek the answer in the Bible.
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(As a child I saw a picture in a museum depicting Hell and it scared me for years.)
Dante's Inferno, by any chance? I think I'm right in saying that that was the first pictorial representation of Hell.
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Floo, you seem obsessed with 'hell'.... thread after thread.
Hell is just the grave, sheol.... the silent, dark, unseen resting-place of ALL the sleeping dead, the land of oblivion and forgetfulness -- and not the eternal, flaming torture-chamber of orthodox superstition man-made ideology.
See the meaning of the Hebrew word שְׁאוֹל, Sheol (Strong's 7585) translated Hell the Grave.
I am not obsessed with hell, which I don't believe exists. Your comment about the mythical place is an assertion without the slightest bit of evidence to support it. ::)
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Floo, you seem obsessed with 'hell'.... thread after thread.
Hell is just the grave, sheol.... the silent, dark, unseen resting-place of ALL the sleeping dead, the land of oblivion and forgetfulness -- and not the eternal, flaming torture-chamber of orthodox superstition man-made ideology.
See the meaning of the Hebrew word שְׁאוֹל, Sheol (Strong's 7585) translated Hell the Grave.
That's only a half-truth. It's true that "hell" or "hades" can and does refer to the grave or the abode of the dead (and consciousness exists there too) but then you also have the New Testament to deal with which deals with the fate of the unsaved after the last judgement, that is "Gahenna" and "the lake of fire".
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... but then you also have the New Testament to deal with which deals with the fate of the unsaved after the last judgement, that is "Gahenna" and "the lake of fire".
But then see what 'Gehenna' is actually all about, ad_o. It references an existing Jewish underrstanding of a given place.
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Get your fairy tales straight at least, you two.
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Try this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0o39H1H6F0
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If it is true that we make god in our own image and our beliefs about our gods reflect ourselves, then this thread is quite illuminating.
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I don't believe any loving God would torture people for eternity just because they won't succumb to being manipulated by other people.
Does he? Remember that conversion to or from Christianity is a matter between oneself and God. Others can encourage or even discourage you, but ultimately, it is for you to make the decision. To suggest, as some here do, that I or anyone else here or elsewhere can convert someone to or from the Chritian faith is simply untrue.
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If it is true that we make god in our own image and our beliefs about our gods reflect ourselves, then this thread is quite illuminating.
Illuminating but not exactly new: a long time ago somebody (I forget who, at the moment) said that cruel people tend to believe in a cruel god whereas kindly people tend to believe in a kindly god.
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... but then you also have the New Testament to deal with which deals with the fate of the unsaved after the last judgement, that is "Gahenna" and "the lake of fire".
But then see what 'Gehenna' is actually all about, ad_o. It references an existing Jewish underrstanding of a given place.
It may well but that was not my point. My point was that they're not the same thing as Sheol, that is, Hades. The term "hell" as used in everyday English refers to all of those.
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Floo, you seem obsessed with 'hell'.... thread after thread.
Hell is just the grave, sheol.... the silent, dark, unseen resting-place of ALL the sleeping dead, the land of oblivion and forgetfulness -- and not the eternal, flaming torture-chamber of orthodox superstition man-made ideology.
See the meaning of the Hebrew word שְׁאוֹל, Sheol (Strong's 7585) translated Hell the Grave.
I am not obsessed with hell, which I don't believe exists. Your comment about the mythical place is an assertion without the slightest bit of evidence to support it. ::)
Likewise, I do not believe that Hell, Gehenna or Sheol exist. However, SweetPea is quite right about how the ancient Jews regarded Sheol, and there is a very great deal of evidence in the Old Testament itself that SP's description is pretty close to how they envisaged it.
The ideas of places of 'fiery torment' for wrongdoings were all later developments (which you can see appearing in the Apocrypha). But please note: I'm saying these were just different ways the ancients envisaged these things. I don't believe there is any concomitant reality to the beliefs they had.
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How many Christians on this forum believe that all the 'unsaved' are off to 'the burny-burny place' when they die? (I like that description Rhiannon ;D )
You don't die in hell... you exist in the lake of fire for ever separated from God and the rest of the human race.
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AAH SOOO YOU believe there is a limit to God then if we can be seperate from Him, eh ????
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How many Christians on this forum believe that all the 'unsaved' are off to 'the burny-burny place' when they die? (I like that description Rhiannon ;D )
You don't die in hell... you exist in the lake of fire for ever separated from God and the rest of the human race.
Why did God invent that rule?
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Why did God invent that rule?
He invented the rule that those who choose to separate themselves from him during their lifetime get to remain separated from him in the after life in order to honour their freedom of choice.
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AAH SOOO YOU believe there is a limit to God then if we can be seperate from Him, eh ????
Yes, it suggests that there is a reality where God does not exist, or there is a boundary between reality-with-God and reality-without-God. Furthermore, this depends on you. This is quite odd really, as it suggests that the presence/absence of God is controlled by humans. Hmm.
However, I doubt if it's really as thought out as that.
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Why did God invent that rule?
He invented the rule that those who choose to separate themselves from him during their lifetime get to remain separated from him in the after life in order to honour their freedom of choice.
But why make them be separated from him in the afterlife in a lake of fire?
Also, what if they change their minds in the afterlife?
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The 'lake of fire for all eternity' concept is of course totally crazy, fire would burn up a human body pdq!
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By why make them be separated from him in the afterlife in a lake of fire?
I understand that that reflects a Jewish understanding (possibly pictorial/allegorical)
Also, what if they change their minds in the afterlife?
Will they be in a position to do this? Is there any evidence that any belief in an afterlife even allows for a human-esque choice after the end of one's earthly life?
This smacks of people here being insecure over their choice during this life.
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By why make them be separated from him in the afterlife in a lake of fire?
I understand that that reflects a Jewish understanding (possibly pictorial/allegorical)
So you don't think it is literally true? Why does Sassy also a Christian?
Also, what if they change their minds in the afterlife?
Will they be in a position to do this?
Christianity is based on the premise that you can change your mind and God won't hold your earlier decision against you. Why would that stop just because you are dead?
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So you don't think it is literally true? Why does Sassy also a Christian?
For one thing, separation from God doesn't actually need a literal lake of fire; secondly, as a result of reading a number of mainstream commentaries over the years and hearing several sermons on this subject, it would appear to me that the 'lake of fire' idea is one of a number of Jewish literary devices that are often used within allegorical passages in Jewish literature. One has to remember that with Matthew and John, especially, having a high degree of Jewish audience, they can still be categorised in this way.
Christianity is based on the premise that you can change your mind and God won't hold your earlier decision against you. Why would that stop just because you are dead?
As far as I am aware, choices need a mind to make and action them. As far as I am aware, it is our soul or spirit that lives for ever, not our bodies and minds.
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By why make them be separated from him in the afterlife in a lake of fire?
I understand that that reflects a Jewish understanding (possibly pictorial/allegorical)
So you don't think it is literally true? Why does Sassy also a Christian?
Also, what if they change their minds in the afterlife?
Will they be in a position to do this?
Christianity is based on the premise that you can change your mind and God won't hold your earlier decision against you. Why would that stop just because you are dead?
Because that would deprive the various churches of power. They want to blackmail you into thinking that you have one chance in this life, and if you don't take that, you have blown it, since you can't change your mind after death. It gives them power over you - if you have an infinite amount of time to change your mind, they have none.
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As far as I am aware, it is our soul or spirit that lives for ever, not our bodies and minds.
That's an interesting idea that I've not heard before. If our minds die when we die, in what sense can eternal life be considered life?
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The extreme fundamentalist Christians dine out on their faith being a fire insurance policy. ;D Get 'saved' and you don't burn in hell!
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As far as I am aware, it is our soul or spirit that lives for ever, not our bodies and minds.
Except of course that you're not aware of this in any way whatsoever. It may well, for reasons best known to yourself, be a belief that you hold; doubtless it is. But any awareness is simply awareness of the fact that this is a belief that you hold, not of the truth of the content of that belief.
So the phrase "as far as I am aware" was used quite incorrectly, where "I believe that ..." or "I think that ..." or "It's my opinion that ..." would have been accurate.
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Except of course that you're not aware of this in any way whatsoever. It may well, for reasons best known to yourself, be a belief that you hold; doubtless it is. But any awareness is simply awareness of the fact that this is a belief that you hold, not of the truth of the content of that belief.
I realise that you don't regard the Bible as evidence for much, but it can be used as internal context for what other parts of the Bible teach. As such, there are a number of passages that suggest that the body and mind will be replaced with a new one, or that it is the sould that lives on into eternity. So, no, I am not "not aware of this in any way whatsoever". Rather, I am using my mental abilities to discern what the Bible as a whoe say about this and other topics.
Using one's mental abilities in this way doesn't necessitate believing what the Bible says; its simply a form of literary criticism - something that you may or may not really understand.
So the phrase "as far as I am aware" was used quite incorrectly, where "I believe that ..." or "I think that ..." or "It's my opinion that ..." would have been accurate.
That might be your opinion, but it also suggests that you haven't done that much critical study of the Biblical material.
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I realise that you don't regard the Bible as evidence for much
Correct. I don't; as I am an evidentialist and you are not, the discussion can stop right there. I really don't give two shiny shites about "context", the perennial refuge of the invariably religious defenders of the indefensible. I care about what we can know to be true, and as usual you're coming woefully - often amusingly but never less than pathetically - short. The rest of your pompous bloviating waffle was, as ever, a waste of time to write and a waste of time to read.
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That might be your opinion, but it also suggests that you haven't done that much critical study of the Biblical material.
I don't think you have done any critical study of the Bible.
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AAH SOOO YOU believe there is a limit to God then if we can be seperate from Him, eh ????
I've always said, and this is what we believe in the East, that hell is not seperation from God. Even those in hell are in God's presence for nothing can exist apart from God.
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So you don't think it is literally true? Why does Sassy also a Christian?
For one thing, separation from God doesn't actually need a literal lake of fire; secondly, as a result of reading a number of mainstream commentaries over the years and hearing several sermons on this subject, it would appear to me that the 'lake of fire' idea is one of a number of Jewish literary devices that are often used within allegorical passages in Jewish literature. One has to remember that with Matthew and John, especially, having a high degree of Jewish audience, they can still be categorised in this way.
Christianity is based on the premise that you can change your mind and God won't hold your earlier decision against you. Why would that stop just because you are dead?
As far as I am aware, choices need a mind to make and action them. As far as I am aware, it is our soul or spirit that lives for ever, not our bodies and minds.
What about the resurrection.
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As far as I am aware, choices need a mind to make and action them. As far as I am aware, it is our soul or spirit that lives for ever, not our bodies and minds.
So will your soul/spirit be robot-like, unable to choose its actions?
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AAH SOOO YOU believe there is a limit to God then if we can be seperate from Him, eh ????
I've always said, and this is what we believe in the East, that hell is not seperation from God. Even those in hell are in God's presence for nothing can exist apart from God.
EXACTLY. I'm a bit of a Hindu myself so I'm well aware of eastern thought which, in many way, to me anyway, seems a bit more honest.
Nick
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How many Christians on this forum believe that all the 'unsaved' are off to 'the burny-burny place' when they die? (I like that description Rhiannon ;D )
You don't die in hell... you exist in the lake of fire for ever separated from God and the rest of the human race.
I couldn't be in heaven if there was one person in a lake of fire.
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a bit of a fixation I would say. why not search the scriptures?
Its not a fixation of hell its fixation that people actually believe justice is done by infinite punishment, it brings about more suffering than Hitler, Islamic State, etc.
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WELL EXACTLY.
How could you ??? Even a so-called enemy !!!
God is supposed to be BETTER than us & yet certain religions make God the worst horrendous bastard that ever existed. :o
Who would want to 'live' forever with THAT, eh ?!!?!?!? ??? :o
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AAH SOOO YOU believe there is a limit to God then if we can be seperate from Him, eh ????
We live now in the presence of God and we can call on him to help us.
He has warned us of the things to come but do you outside faith know Gods presence. There is a difference between being able to find him and never being able to find him because you chose to lock him out of your world and life.
So God is not limited.... Death has come to those who do not obey him or accept his free gift of forgiveness and eternal life with him.
Now you can seek him whilst he can be found. Once in hell or in the lake of fire he will not be found by those there. Yes he will still be everywhere but those in that place are there for eternity.
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Correct. I don't; as I am an evidentialist and you are not, the discussion can stop right there. I really don't give two shiny shites about "context", the perennial refuge of the invariably religious defenders of the indefensible.
Good to know that you dismiss what even scientists rely on; the context within which an experiment occurs is very important in terms of repeatability, and validity. As such its the perennial refuge of all studies, research and - effectively, life.
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We live now in the presence of God and we can call on him to help us.
He has warned us of the things to come but do you outside faith know Gods presence. There is a difference between being able to find him and never being able to find him because you chose to lock him out of your world and life.
So God is not limited.... Death has come to those who do not obey him or accept his free gift of forgiveness and eternal life with him.
Now you can seek him whilst he can be found. Once in hell or in the lake of fire he will not be found by those there. Yes he will still be everywhere but those in that place are there for eternity.
What a contradiction. He is everywhere but not for certain others.
FREE GIFT ?!?!? Are you serious ?????
I'm not an 'outside faith' BTW It's soooo obvious ONLY Christians matter to you, maybe only CERTAIN brands of Christians too, eh ???
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So will your soul/spirit be robot-like, unable to choose its actions?
No Len, it won't be. It will have made that decision/choice whilst here on earth.
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Hope
Why are you scaremongering when you have no real knowledge of what's to happen after you 'die'.??? ??? ::)
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Hope's in charge of the Assertatron today ;)
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Hope
Why are you scaremongering when you have no real knowledge of what's to happen after you 'die'.??? ??? ::)
Are you worried that, perhaps your choices here on earth aren't going to turn out as you hope, and want the option of a second bite of the cherry once after the death of your earthly body?
I am, and have often been struck by the fact that it seems to be the non-believers here who seem to want to hedge their 'eternity' bets by challenging the idea that one's choices here on earth impact on how one's life after death works out.
As I'm said before, that smacks of insecurity in making choices.
I do not believe that a loving God would even consider overruling a choice made by an individual whilst here on earth.
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So will your soul/spirit be robot-like, unable to choose its actions?
No Len, it won't be. It will have made that decision/choice whilst here on earth.
But you said "As far as I am aware, choices need a mind to make and action them. As far as I am aware, it is our soul or spirit that lives for ever, not our bodies and minds."
So if minds die with bodies, the soul loses the ability to make choices.
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...have often been struck by the fact that it seems to be the non-believers here who seem to want to hedge their 'eternity' bets by challenging the idea that one's choices here on earth impact on how one's life after death works out.
Nope - nothing to 'hedge' against.
As I'm said before, that smacks of insecurity in making choices.
Now you are being silly - dead is dead: no other 'choices' are available.
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Have just discovered something called "hell houses" it's a form of evangelism often practiced on children.
It a bit wooden to start with, but stick with it till the end for maximum effect.
http://youtu.be/ZDWdbrk96_U
How awful is that?
I hate that sort of thing especially if it's aimed at children.
I have heard of that ghastly nonsense before, it is evil. I am sure my sadistic paternal grandmother would have loved to have sent all her kids and grandchildren to one of those!
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Hope
Why are you scaremongering when you have no real knowledge of what's to happen after you 'die'.??? ??? ::)
Are you worried that, perhaps your choices here on earth aren't going to turn out as you hope, and want the option of a second bite of the cherry once after the death of your earthly body?
I am, and have often been struck by the fact that it seems to be the non-believers here who seem to want to hedge their 'eternity' bets by challenging the idea that one's choices here on earth impact on how one's life after death works out.
As I'm said before, that smacks of insecurity in making choices.
I do not believe that a loving God would even consider overruling a choice made by an individual whilst here on earth.
You need to send me £500 because after your dead the bogeyman gets you, tell your pals. :)
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Where is love and forgiveness in this?
http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/Homophobia_Hell_House.pdf
I hate to say it, but these extremist people are mentally deranged. They should be restrained and given corrective treatment.
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This stuff is seriously sick
"youre not familiar, Hell House is a Christian alternative to the standard haunted house. Instead of Freddy Krueger, these costumed evangelists scare the holy Jesus into you, literally.
In this house of horrors, being gay results in dying of AIDS and premarital sex can lead the homecoming queen down a slippery slope of prostitution. Youth groups visit and are led through a series of "real life" horrific scenes designed to create terror and revulsion. Hell House outreach manuals include astute tips on creating authentic abortion room scenes, such as: "Purchase a meat product that closely resembles pieces of a baby to be placed in a glass bowl."
In the end, Hell House patrons are asked to participate in a goofy ceremony and accept salvation by repenting their sins and trusting Jesus Christ or face eternity in hell."
Same link.
And they let small children in.
small child bolts from one of the Hell House scene rooms and vomits. His mother is close behind. Throughout the night, other frightened children will also throw up."
That's awful.
I hope the police and social services would be involved if there were these hell houses in the UK!
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Where is love and forgiveness in this?
http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/Homophobia_Hell_House.pdf
I hate to say it, but these extremist people are mentally deranged. They should be restrained and given corrective treatment.
The people who threaten others with hell-fire certainly have a few screws loose! >:(
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We live now in the presence of God and we can call on him to help us.
He has warned us of the things to come but do you outside faith know Gods presence. There is a difference between being able to find him and never being able to find him because you chose to lock him out of your world and life.
So God is not limited.... Death has come to those who do not obey him or accept his free gift of forgiveness and eternal life with him.
Now you can seek him whilst he can be found. Once in hell or in the lake of fire he will not be found by those there. Yes he will still be everywhere but those in that place are there for eternity.
What a contradiction. He is everywhere but not for certain others.
FREE GIFT ?!?!? Are you serious ?????
I'm not an 'outside faith' BTW It's soooo obvious ONLY Christians matter to you, maybe only CERTAIN brands of Christians too, eh ???
Of course God is everywhere but you choose even now whether he will be part of your life and effective in your existence or not.
People matter to me Christian is a name given as an insult to believers. No Jew or Gentile in Christ we are all one. Your false indignation and false insult and accusation does you no favours and does not make the fact you are looking for fight with your insults.
Whatever your faith is immaterial because TRUTH is what Christ came to bring.
How do you choose your truth when it comes to faith?
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Hope
Why are you scaremongering when you have no real knowledge of what's to happen after you 'die'.??? ??? ::)
Are you sh*t stirring because your faith gives you no Hope after you die?
You looking for a fight Trippy because no one here is interested in fighting over religion.
Your religion has nothing to support it, does it? Whilst the Christian and Jewish religion has a belief that comes from the beginning and the one true God YHWH. God is not answerable to man and never has been. He does not need manmade ways to protect his truth.
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Hope
Why are you scaremongering when you have no real knowledge of what's to happen after you 'die'.??? ??? ::)
Are you worried that, perhaps your choices here on earth aren't going to turn out as you hope, and want the option of a second bite of the cherry once after the death of your earthly body?
I am, and have often been struck by the fact that it seems to be the non-believers here who seem to want to hedge their 'eternity' bets by challenging the idea that one's choices here on earth impact on how one's life after death works out.
As I'm said before, that smacks of insecurity in making choices.
I do not believe that a loving God would even consider overruling a choice made by an individual whilst here on earth.
You need to send me £500 because after your dead the bogeyman gets you, tell your pals. :)
Wouldn't send you 500 pence let alone 500 pounds lol..
Made me smile this morning. Thanks Jak... :)
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Of course God is everywhere but you choose even now whether he will be part of your life and effective in your existence or not.
HOUSE!!! Oh, wait, sorry... this isn't 'Assertion Bingo'?
People matter to me
Thank you, Sass. I disagree with pretty much everything you claim about gods and Jesus and the like, but on this I believe you. You come here, at least in part, because you want to help - thank you.
Christian is a name given as an insult to believers.
Sometimes, I suspect. Sometimes it's claimed as some sort of badge of honour (especially in the 'true' Christian claims). Mainly, though, it's used as a descriptor.
O.
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Where is love and forgiveness in this?
http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/Homophobia_Hell_House.pdf
Rose, Give us a reason why you posted this and whose love and forgiveness you are referring to.
Don't confuse or identify the love of and forgiven of eros human with the agape love and forgiveness of God. They are not the same thing.
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Hope
Why are you scaremongering when you have no real knowledge of what's to happen after you 'die'.??? ??? ::)
Are you worried that, perhaps your choices here on earth aren't going to turn out as you hope, and want the option of a second bite of the cherry once after the death of your earthly body?
I am, and have often been struck by the fact that it seems to be the non-believers here who seem to want to hedge their 'eternity' bets by challenging the idea that one's choices here on earth impact on how one's life after death works out.
As I'm said before, that smacks of insecurity in making choices.
I do not believe that a loving God would even consider overruling a choice made by an individual whilst here on earth.
You need to send me £500 because after your dead the bogeyman gets you, tell your pals. :)
Wouldn't send you 500 pence let alone 500 pounds lol..
Made me smile this morning. Thanks Jak... :)
Your choice may the bogeyman have mercy on your soul. :)
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Where is love and forgiveness in this?
http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/Homophobia_Hell_House.pdf
Rose, Give us a reason why you posted this and whose love and forgiveness you are referring to.
Don't confuse or identify the love of and forgiven of eros human with the agape love and forgiveness of God. They are not the same thing.
No they certainly aren't, human love and forgiveness is nothing like that of the deity, which doesn't know the meaning of those two words if the deeds attributed to it in the Bible had any veracity!
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Don't confuse or identify the love of and forgiven of eros human with the agape love and forgiveness of God. They are not the same thing.
Indeed they're not! Humans can love and forgive unconditionally, "God" will only do it if you love him back.
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It's horrible!
Can you not see it Sassy?
Of course she can, but she'll find a way to wriggle out of it. :)
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It was kind of you to go to the trouble to explain that, Rose, but if it isn't obvious to someone why the stuff in your link is unloving then no amount of explanation will get them there.
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Hope
Why are you scaremongering when you have no real knowledge of what's to happen after you 'die'.??? ??? ::)
Are you worried that, perhaps your choices here on earth aren't going to turn out as you hope, and want the option of a second bite of the cherry once after the death of your earthly body?
I am, and have often been struck by the fact that it seems to be the non-believers here who seem to want to hedge their 'eternity' bets by challenging the idea that one's choices here on earth impact on how one's life after death works out.
As I'm said before, that smacks of insecurity in making choices.
I do not believe that a loving God would even consider overruling a choice made by an individual whilst here on earth.
You need to send me £500 because after your dead the bogeyman gets you, tell your pals. :)
Wouldn't send you 500 pence let alone 500 pounds lol..
Made me smile this morning. Thanks Jak... :)
Your choice may the bogeyman have mercy on your soul sole. :)
That's better...lol :)