Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: floo on October 11, 2015, 11:54:01 AM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
Belief in spirits, bad or good, is the stuff of fairy tales, swallowed only by the credulous.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
Belief in spirits, bad or good, is the stuff of fairy tales, swallowed only by the credulous.
Which is why we have always looked for a natural explanation when faced with something weird!
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
Belief in spirits, bad or good, is the stuff of fairy tales, swallowed only by the credulous.
Which is why we have always looked for a natural explanation when faced with something weird!
And there will always be one, Roses, no matter how long it takes to surface.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
Belief in spirits, bad or good, is the stuff of fairy tales, swallowed only by the credulous.
Which is why we have always looked for a natural explanation when faced with something weird!
I don't think you have the credibility to say such a thing! ;)
By the way, what is "natural."
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
Belief in spirits, bad or good, is the stuff of fairy tales, swallowed only by the credulous.
Which is why we have always looked for a natural explanation when faced with something weird!
I don't think you have the credibility to say such a thing! ;)
By the way, what is "natural."
It's natural to have a number of people that believe in unfounded nonsense, like you do BA.
ippy
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
Belief in spirits, bad or good, is the stuff of fairy tales, swallowed only by the credulous.
Which is why we have always looked for a natural explanation when faced with something weird!
I don't think you have the credibility to say such a thing! ;)
By the way, what is "natural."
It's natural to have a number of people that believe in unfounded nonsense, like you do BA.
ippy
It's also natural to be surrounded by uninformed semi-literate, or indeed, illiterate people in religious terms, such as you.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
Belief in spirits, bad or good, is the stuff of fairy tales, swallowed only by the credulous.
Which is why we have always looked for a natural explanation when faced with something weird!
And there will always be one, Roses, no matter how long it takes to surface.
I agree. Science will get there in the end. What we take for granted today would have seemed supernatural a few hundred years ago, like electricity for instance.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
Belief in spirits, bad or good, is the stuff of fairy tales, swallowed only by the credulous.
Which is why we have always looked for a natural explanation when faced with something weird!
And there will always be one, Roses, no matter how long it takes to surface.
I agree. Science will get there in the end. What we take for granted today would have seemed supernatural a few hundred years ago, like electricity for instance.
And that applies to all things religious as well; and even to poltergeists!
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I agree. Science will get there in the end. What we take for granted today would have seemed supernatural a few hundred years ago, like electricity for instance.
And that applies to all things religious as well; and even to poltergeists!
Quite! You are surprisingly sensible at times, Tony. ;D
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I agree. Science will get there in the end. What we take for granted today would have seemed supernatural a few hundred years ago, like electricity for instance.
And that applies to all things religious as well; and even to poltergeists!
Quite! You are surprisingly sensible at times, Tony. ;D
Well, how kind - but it's true, though I would suggest, "all the time."
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Well, how kind - but it's true, though I would suggest, "all the time."
Well, that is a tad conceited of you, my boy. Even I can be wrong sometimes! ;)
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Well, how kind - but it's true, though I would suggest, "all the time."
Well, that is a tad conceited of you, my boy. Even I can be wrong sometimes! ;)
Actually, conceit is not really a fault of mine; in fact, I have no faults, except perhaps, modesty. :)
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Actually, conceit is not really a fault of mine; in fact, I have no faults, except perhaps, modesty. :)
Touché!
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
Belief in spirits, bad or good, is the stuff of fairy tales, swallowed only by the credulous.
Which is why we have always looked for a natural explanation when faced with something weird!
I don't think you have the credibility to say such a thing! ;)
By the way, what is "natural."
It's natural to have a number of people that believe in unfounded nonsense, like you do BA.
ippy
It's also natural to be surrounded by uninformed semi-literate, or indeed, illiterate people in religious terms, such as you.
I couldn't help noticing that you held back on the abuse there BA, much appreciated.
I take it by your kind response that you still, as yet, just like Hope haven't managed to find anything that would evidentially support your religious beliefs anymore than these 'Witchcraft' people, are able to evidentially support their nonsense and this made me wonder; have you found any verifiable evidence that might support you religious beliefs yet?
Thing is your evaluation of how to define what is in fact natural and what isn't, would gain some at least some credibility if you were able to verify there is more to your beliefs than you are able quantify at the moment, only at present your handicap is showing you have quite a severe lack of ability in this area.
ippy
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Thing is your evaluation of how to define what is in fact natural and what isn't, would gain some at least some credibility if you were able to verify there is more to your beliefs than you are able quantify at the moment, only at present your handicap is showing you have quite a severe lack of ability in this area.
ippy
You can't get blood from a stone, Ippy.
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What gets me is that people who condemn people playing at being witches, and the subsequent mumbo jumbo which goes with that silliness, can't see that some practices associated with Christianity are equally daft.
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Thing is your evaluation of how to define what is in fact natural and what isn't, would gain some at least some credibility if you were able to verify there is more to your beliefs than you are able quantify at the moment, only at present your handicap is showing you have quite a severe lack of ability in this area.
ippy
You can't get blood from a stone, Ippy.
I was more thinking of a 25foot crank, if you're with me?
ippy
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What gets me is that people who condemn people playing at being witches, and the subsequent mumbo jumbo which goes with that silliness, can't see that some practices associated with Christianity are equally daft.
The way most Christian leaders dress themselves up for their rituals is quite idiotic ... but they wear some lovely colours! ;D
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraftand should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
Explanation of your basis for the highlighted please.
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I was more thinking of a 25foot crank, if you're with me?
ippy
'Fraid not, Ippy, but I haven't been following the thread much.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34475424
It is so sick that extremist faith merchants accuse people of witchcraft and seek to have them exorcised, which is abusive. I believe that is what happened to that poor little girl, Victoria Climbie, before she was killed by her evil aunt some years ago. Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft and should be totally illegal if kids and the vulnerable are subjected to them.
I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
In what way is thge OP describing a "pagan type practice"?
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
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It's also natural to be surrounded by uninformed semi-literate, or indeed, illiterate people in religious terms, such as you.
Anthony breaks his own rules again.
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
Exactly!
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I was more thinking of a 25foot crank, if you're with me?
ippy
'Fraid not, Ippy, but I haven't been following the thread much.
With a handle/peddle?
ippy
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
Exactly!
Still trying to catch me out, oh sad one. There is a news item this week-end suggesting witch-craft, among the loonies, is increasing.
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
Exactly!
Does it appeal to you then if its for loonies?
Still trying to catch me out, oh sad one. There is a news item this week-end suggesting witch-craft, among the loonies, is increasing.
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
Exactly!
Does it appeal to you then if its for loonies?
Still trying to catch me out, oh sad one. There is a news item this week-end suggesting witch-craft, among the loonies, is increasing.
Ah, what it must be like to be so intellectual!
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
Exactly!
Does it appeal to you then if its for loonies?
Still trying to catch me out, oh sad one. There is a news item this week-end suggesting witch-craft, among the loonies, is increasing.
Ah, what it must be like to be so intellectual!if
Something you will never know!
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
Exactly!
Does it appeal to you then if its for loonies?
Still trying to catch me out, oh sad one. There is a news item this week-end suggesting witch-craft, among the loonies, is increasing.
Ah, what it must be like to be so intellectual!if
Something you will never know!
And something you prove about yourself, on a daily basis - I'm surprised you even post here, highlighting your total ineptitude so often.
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
Exactly!
Does it appeal to you then if its for loonies?
Still trying to catch me out, oh sad one. There is a news item this week-end suggesting witch-craft, among the loonies, is increasing.
Ah, what it must be like to be so intellectual!if
Something you will never know!
And something you prove about yourself, on a daily basis - I'm surprised you even post here, highlighting your total ineptitude so often.
I don't post daily.
I have never actually seen debate just name call.
Are you able to discuss a topic without descending into name calling?
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
Exactly!
Does it appeal to you then if its for loonies?
Still trying to catch me out, oh sad one. There is a news item this week-end suggesting witch-craft, among the loonies, is increasing.
Ah, what it must be like to be so intellectual!if
Something you will never know!
And something you prove about yourself, on a daily basis - I'm surprised you even post here, highlighting your total ineptitude so often.
I don't post daily.
I have never actually seen debate just name call.
Are you able to discuss a topic without descending into name calling?
Look up, "hypocrite." You seem to have come on today to do nothing but snipe. Sad fellow.
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
Exactly!
Does it appeal to you then if its for loonies?
Still trying to catch me out, oh sad one. There is a news item this week-end suggesting witch-craft, among the loonies, is increasing.
Ah, what it must be like to be so intellectual!if
Something you will never know!
And something you prove about yourself, on a daily basis - I'm surprised you even post here, highlighting your total ineptitude so often.
I don't post daily.
I have never actually seen debate just name call.
Are you able to discuss a topic without descending into name calling?
Look up, "hypocrite." You seem to have come on today to do nothing but snipe. Sad fellow.
You seem to use that word a lot, and usually have incorrectly.
Do you know what it means?
You created a thread about poor attitudes and then go on to use poor attitude in your posting.
That makes you a hypocrit.
Do you understand that?
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Another thread which BA turns into an insultfest.
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Mexican witchcraft national geographic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ucyH9_Yf9A
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Floo,
You really think science is going to explain your flowers turning into dying wasps? Science doesn't need to explain that, it's a case of spouting the baloney, a con.
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floo,
You mention equally daft. I don't know if equal is the right word. Too funny you.
Unexplainable.Net Spooks R Us
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
Exactly!
Still trying to catch me out, oh sad one. There is a news item this week-end suggesting witch-craft, among the loonies, is increasing.
To which you have so far failed to provide the requested link!
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Mexican witchcraft national geographic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ucyH9_Yf9A
Mexican. Hmm.
I would not know exactly what Mexican magic or Mexican witchcraft are based upon or what their practices are, but I would venture to suggest that they are about as far removed from European magic and witchcraft as are the Nigerian and other African versions.
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I agree: it is a nasty, pagan-type practice, and should be shunned, along with such things as poltergeist "visions."
You should have read the article. It's about people accusing others of witchcraft, not about witchcraft itself.
Exactly!
Does it appeal to you then if its for loonies?
Still trying to catch me out, oh sad one. There is a news item this week-end suggesting witch-craft, among the loonies, is increasing.
Ah, what it must be like to be so intellectual!if
Something you will never know!
And something you prove about yourself, on a daily basis - I'm surprised you even post here, highlighting your total ineptitude so often.
I don't post daily.
I have never actually seen debate just name call.
Are you able to discuss a topic without descending into name calling?
Look up, "hypocrite." You seem to have come on today to do nothing but snipe. Sad fellow.
You seem to use that word a lot, and usually have incorrectly.
Do you know what it means?
You created a thread about poor attitudes and then go on to use poor attitude in your posting.
That makes you a hypocrit.
Do you understand that?
You spelt "hypocrite" wrongly: do you understand that?
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BA
Do you understand what it means, and why it applies to you?
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BA
Do you understand what it means, and why it applies to you?
Do you understand it when I say you are strange?
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BA
Do you understand what it means, and why it applies to you?
Do you understand it when I say you are strange?
I thought you were very ill?
Why don't you spend more time doing that?
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BA
Do you understand what it means, and why it applies to you?
Do you understand it when I say you are strange?
I thought you were very ill?
Why don't you spend more time doing that?
Goodnight.
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I thought you were very ill?
Whether he is very ill or not doesn't alter the fact that he is hopelessly deluded by that book.
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. . . anymore than these 'Witchcraft' people,
ippy
Which (no pun intended) witchcraft people, please.
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If he finds answers in the bible, good for him.
He will find no answers for his illness, whatever it is, in the Bible. He can only rely on the medical profession.
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I agree. Science will get there in the end. What we take for granted today would have seemed supernatural a few hundred years ago, like electricity for instance.
I thought you disapproved of extremist faith merchants, Floo. ;)
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How incestuous this thread is becoming.
Posts and answers flashing to-and-fro on a thread about (supposedly) witchcraft. The only posts being ignored? Those ,made by the only (I think) bona fide witcg on the Forum!
Incidentally why is it that Christians can describe my beliefs in such a dismissive fashion but have an apoplectic fit or resort to juvenile name-calling if I do the same to them and even more so if I respond in kind; why is it that atheists do the same but usually without the name calling except, usually, for the word 'deluded'?
I therefore leave this thread to those who know absolutely sweet fuck all about the subject of withcraft in the 21qst century as it is practiced in the UK (and most of Europe and, in the more civilised and educated parts of the USA and Canada).
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The subject of this thread is actually about abusive religious extremists accusing people of being witches!
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What gets me is that people who condemn people playing at being witches, and the subsequent mumbo jumbo which goes with that silliness, can't see that some practices associated with Christianity are equally daft.
And who and what would those be, Floo? Remember that many Christians on this board quite happily state that we don't agree with or condone some of the practices performed in the name of Christianity.
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Incidentally why is it that Christians can describe my beliefs in such a dismissive fashion but have an apoplectic fit or resort to juvenile name-calling if I do the same to them and even more so if I respond in kind; why is it that atheists do the same but usually without the name calling except, usually, for the word 'deluded'?
What else would you expect atheists to say to somebody who assigns the word 'god' to perfectly natural phenomena?
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The subject of this thread is actually about abusive religious extremists accusing people of being witches!
Is that why you stated "Science will get there in the end. What we take for granted today would have seemed supernatural a few hundred years ago, like electricity for instance"? The opening statement of that quote is - in view of the ways in which science has failed to answer many questions it has tried to answer over the centuries - an statement of extreme faith.
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Incidentally why is it that Christians can describe my beliefs in such a dismissive fashion but have an apoplectic fit or resort to juvenile name-calling if I do the same to them and even more so if I respond in kind; why is it that atheists do the same but usually without the name calling except, usually, for the word 'deluded'?
I've seen no less abuse from atheists than from Christians regarding your beliefs, Matt.
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The subject of this thread is actually about abusive religious extremists accusing people of being witches!
Oh really?
Exorcisms are daft mumbo jumbo, no different to witchcraft
it is a nasty, pagan-type practice,
the stuff of fairy tales, swallowed only by the credulous.
believe in unfounded nonsense,
people playing at being witches, and the subsequent mumbo jumbo which goes with that silliness
this thread is actually about abusive religious extremists accusing people of being witches
I think not!
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Incidentally why is it that Christians can describe my beliefs in such a dismissive fashion but have an apoplectic fit or resort to juvenile name-calling if I do the same to them and even more so if I respond in kind; why is it that atheists do the same but usually without the name calling except, usually, for the word 'deluded'?
I've seen no less abuse from atheists than from Christians regarding your beliefs, Matt.
READ THE POST QUOTED!
why is it that atheists do the same but usually without the name calling except, usually, for the word 'deluded'?
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He will find no answers for his illness, whatever it is, in the Bible. He can only rely on the medical profession.
Sadly for you, Len, I know of several people who were told in no uncertain terms by the medical profession that they had X months to live, yet continued to live long beyond that timeframe? In some cases, the individual asked Christian friends to pray that they would live beyond the medical professionals' timeframe. In some cases, they didn't. Can we really rely on the medical profession in the way you claim?
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"why is it that atheists do the same but usually without the name calling except, usually, for the word 'deluded'?"
And I pointed out that I have seen no qualitative or quantitative evidence to suggest that Christians abuse you in ANY more unpleasant ways than atheists do.
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He will find no answers for his illness, whatever it is, in the Bible. He can only rely on the medical profession.
Sadly for you, Len, I know of several people who were told in no uncertain terms by the medical profession that they had X months to live, yet continued to live long beyond that timeframe? In some cases, the individual asked Christian friends to pray that they would live beyond the medical professionals' timeframe. In some cases, they didn't. Can we really rely on the medical profession in the way you claim?
Medics can be wrong of course and the human body can defy them. Nothing to do with any prayers unless it acts as a placebo, which I suppose it possible. If the blanky deity is capable of riding to the rescue why the hell don't it instead of playing stupid beggars, as in the case of Alan Burn's friend. I suppose if the poor lady does recover that so and so in the sky will get the praise, even though it should have cured her immediately if it was capable. If the lady doesn't recover, or is left disabled, the deity won't be blamed and excuses will be made! ::)
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Sadly for you, Len, I know of several people who were told in no uncertain terms by the medical profession that they had X months to live, yet continued to live long beyond that timeframe? In some cases, the individual asked Christian friends to pray that they would live beyond the medical professionals' timeframe. In some cases, they didn't. Can we really rely on the medical profession in the way you claim?
The medical profession is not infallible, but it is the only effective recourse we have when we are ill.
Prayers and gods are just placebos.
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Medics can be wrong of course and the human body can defy them. Nothing to do with any prayers unless it acts as a placebo, which I suppose it possible. If the blanky deity is capable of riding to the rescue why the hell don't it instead of playing stupid beggars, as in the case of Alan Burn's friend. I suppose if the poor lady does recover that so and so in the sky will get the praise, even though it should have cured her immediately if it was capable. If the lady doesn't recover, or is left disabled, the deity won't be blamed and excuses will be made! ::)
Spot on, Roses!
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The subject of this thread is actually about abusive religious extremists accusing people of being witches!
Is that why you stated "Science will get there in the end. What we take for granted today would have seemed supernatural a few hundred years ago, like electricity for instance"? The opening statement of that quote is - in view of the ways in which science has failed to answer many questions it has tried to answer over the centuries - an statement of extreme faith.
Whilst I'd agree that this expresses an element of faith in scientific progress that is not immediately justifiable by the available evidence, I'd put it in a different category to religious faith - neither is entirely justified, but science has a proven track-record that religion lacks.
O.
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He will find no answers for his illness, whatever it is, in the Bible. He can only rely on the medical profession.
Sadly for you, Len, I know of several people who were told in no uncertain terms by the medical profession that they had X months to live, yet continued to live long beyond that timeframe? In some cases, the individual asked Christian friends to pray that they would live beyond the medical professionals' timeframe. In some cases, they didn't. Can we really rely on the medical profession in the way you claim?
Almost universally medical professionals are trained to tell people something like 'in situations like these we typically see people live x months'. That people take this as an absolute prediction - or that, under difficult circumstances, medical professionals sometimes don't get the wording exactly right - doesn't turn medical science into a fallacy.
The massive expansion in human population and average lifespans all over the world, the colossal drop in infant mortality and the eradication of several previously endemic diseases is testament to the efficacy of modern medicine.
That we cannot cure everything, yet, that there are still diseases and conditions that we don't know enough about to effectively categorise or treat says more about the diversity and complexity of life than it does about medicines failings.
O.
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Sadly for you, Len, I know of several people who were told in no uncertain terms by the medical profession that they had X months to live, yet continued to live long beyond that timeframe? In some cases, the individual asked Christian friends to pray that they would live beyond the medical professionals' timeframe. In some cases, they didn't. Can we really rely on the medical profession in the way you claim?
So if someone goes to the Doctor asks the question 'What can be done' and the Doctor comes back with 'we'll pray for you' that will be good news.
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Incidentally why is it that Christians can describe my beliefs in such a dismissive fashion but have an apoplectic fit or resort to juvenile name-calling if I do the same to them and even more so if I respond in kind; why is it that atheists do the same but usually without the name calling except, usually, for the word 'deluded'?
What else would you expect atheists to say to somebody who assigns the word 'god' to perfectly natural phenomena?
I expect atheists to defend their delusions with the same tenacity as Christians do theirs and pagans do theirs - what I object to is the derogatory terms used.
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I expect atheists to defend their delusions with the same tenacity as Christians do theirs and pagans do theirs - what I object to is the derogatory terms used.
Which delusions are they?
O.
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I only object when atheists patronise me and assume I'd be happier if I thought like them.
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I know I have mentioned this on a number of occasions but will do so again. When my husband had his devastating brain haemorrhage in December 2006, a 'born again' friend of ours was very ill too. Many well meaning prayers were said for both of them. My husband recovered, albeit with half his brain trashed, our friend died. Now if my husband had died of course it would have been very sad, but as our children were adults leading independent lives we would have coped. However, in the case of our friend his death caused great distress and trauma to his family who were still young; one of whom was disabled. I raised this question on a forum as to why my husband had lived, and our friend died and got the stock answer from a fundie. The deity allowed my husband to live so he could get 'saved'! This is quite amusing because whilst my husband was in a coma he had some sort of experience, which convinced him beyond all doubt that no deity or afterlife existed!
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I expect atheists to defend their delusions with the same tenacity as Christians do theirs and pagans do theirs - what I object to is the derogatory terms used.
Which delusions are they?
O.
That there are no deities! Of course, what else did you think of?!
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I know I have mentioned this on a number of occasions but will do so again. When my husband had his devastating brain haemorrhage in December 2006, a 'born again' friend of ours was very ill too. Many well meaning prayers were said for both of them. My husband recovered, albeit with half his brain trashed, our friend died. Now if my husband had died of course it would have been very sad, but as our children were adults leading independent lives we would have coped. However, in the case of our friend his death caused great distress and trauma to his family who were still young; one of whom was disabled. I raised this question on a forum as to why my husband had lived, and our friend died and got the stock answer from a fundie. The deity allowed my husband to live so he could get 'saved'! This is quite amusing because whilst my husband was in a coma he had some sort of experience, which convinced him beyond all doubt that no deity or afterlife existed!
Convinced HIM! And I am extremely sorry that he did not have a complete recovery. Sometimes a partial recovery is worse, far worse, than either a complete recovery or a complete failure to recover.
Why his experience should be used, by anyone, in an attempt to convince others is beyond me.
My beliefs, my religion, is personal to me! I expect no-one other than myself to follow my beliefs as they are based upon MY experiences, and, unless someone else has exactly, in every minute detail, the same experiences they cannot possibly understand why I believe what I believe and, as far as I am concerned, that goes for all religious belief or, in the case of atheists, disbelief.
As both Rhi and I have said on many occasions on this Forum, what really pisses me off is when people who have not the vaguest idea of what I believe and why I believe it, or how I practice it, whose only knowledge of my beliefs is gained from others who have a vested interest in dissing what I believe to suit their own purposes of pushing their beliefs onto myself and others, of telling me that what I believe is sinful, wrong, fantasy or anything else negative, I find myself wondering who they are trying to convince of the rightness of what they are pushing, me or themselves.
In most cases I think that it is the latter.
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I expect atheists to defend their delusions with the same tenacity as Christians do theirs and pagans do theirs - what I object to is the derogatory terms used.
Which delusions are they?
O.
That there are no deities! Of course, what else did you think of?!
And your evidence that these are 'delusions' is....?
O.
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I expect atheists to defend their delusions with the same tenacity as Christians do theirs and pagans do theirs - what I object to is the derogatory terms used.
Which delusions are they?
O.
That there are no deities! Of course, what else did you think of?!
And your evidence that these are 'delusions' is....?
O.
Of course there is no evidence that they are delusions anymore than there is any evidence to the contrary.
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I know I have mentioned this on a number of occasions but will do so again. When my husband had his devastating brain haemorrhage in December 2006, a 'born again' friend of ours was very ill too. Many well meaning prayers were said for both of them. My husband recovered, albeit with half his brain trashed, our friend died. Now if my husband had died of course it would have been very sad, but as our children were adults leading independent lives we would have coped. However, in the case of our friend his death caused great distress and trauma to his family who were still young; one of whom was disabled. I raised this question on a forum as to why my husband had lived, and our friend died and got the stock answer from a fundie. The deity allowed my husband to live so he could get 'saved'! This is quite amusing because whilst my husband was in a coma he had some sort of experience, which convinced him beyond all doubt that no deity or afterlife existed!
Convinced HIM! And I am extremely sorry that he did not have a complete recovery. Sometimes a partial recovery is worse, far worse, than either a complete recovery or a complete failure to recover.
Why his experience should be used, by anyone, in an attempt to convince others is beyond me.
My beliefs, my religion, is personal to me! I expect no-one other than myself to follow my beliefs as they are based upon MY experiences, and, unless someone else has exactly, in every minute detail, the same experiences they cannot possibly understand why I believe what I believe and, as far as I am concerned, that goes for all religious belief or, in the case of atheists, disbelief.
As both Rhi and I have said on many occasions on this Forum, what really pisses me off is when people who have not the vaguest idea of what I believe and why I believe it, whose only knowledge of my beliefs is gained from others who have a vested ineterst in dissing what I believe to suit thei own purposes of pushing their beliefs onto myself and others, of telling me that what |I believe is sinfulk, wrong, fantasy or anything else negative, I find myself wondering who they are trying to convince of the ritghtness of what they are poushing, me or themselves.
In most cases I think that it is the latter.
I don't believe that whatever experience my husband claimed to have had, has anymore credence than those claiming the deity/Jesus is communing with them.
As for his partial recovery, I sometimes think it would be kinder if he hadn't survived as he is unable to do anything of an academic nature now, which was always his greatest love. However, even with half a functioning brain he is still light years more intelligent than the family thicko, little me, which wouldn't be difficult!
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Well floo, it's all out in the public domain about how seriously we should take those experiences you claim going on in your home. (Brother Doli Tom Ruffles)
Some sort of experience that you won't tell us about? How very convenient for you. If your hubby won't tell you about this experience he had, perhaps you should shut up about it.
So I am curious about who this Lord is that you prayed to and asked for help and forgiveness from when you wrote this masterpiece.
"Lord,
Thank goodness you know me,
because I don't always know myself!
I suppose there is a purpose to the MENOPAUSE,
forgive me when I fail to see it!"
OH MY WORLD!! Too funny you!!
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Well floo, it's all out in the public domain about how seriously we should take those experiences you claim going on in your home. (Brother Doli Tom Ruffles)
Some sort of experience that you won't tell us about? How very convenient for you. If your hubby won't tell you about this experience he had, perhaps you should shut up about it.
So I am curious about who this Lord is that you prayed to and asked for help and forgiveness from when you wrote this masterpiece.
"Lord,
Thank goodness you know me,
because I don't always know myself!
I suppose there is a purpose to the MENOPAUSE,
forgive me when I fail to see it!"
OH MY WORLD!! Too funny you!!
Floo
Ignore JC's post - it is posted purely as a WIND-UP - he is, as usual, trying to make you angry so that you post something that he can make fun of.
If it is nothing to do with the thread, and the above is not, treat it as if it did not exist!
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Well floo, it's all out in the public domain about how seriously we should take those experiences you claim going on in your home. (Brother Doli Tom Ruffles)
Some sort of experience that you won't tell us about? How very convenient for you. If your hubby won't tell you about this experience he had, perhaps you should shut up about it.
So I am curious about who this Lord is that you prayed to and asked for help and forgiveness from when you wrote this masterpiece.
"Lord,
Thank goodness you know me,
because I don't always know myself!
I suppose there is a purpose to the MENOPAUSE,
forgive me when I fail to see it!"
OH MY WORLD!! Too funny you!!
Floo
Ignore JC's post - it is posted purely as a WIND-UP - he is, as usual, trying to make you angry so that you post something that he can make fun of.
If it is nothing to do with the thread, and the above is not, treat it as if it did not exist!
Everyone, ignore that last post, until the poster has recovered control - that may be some time! :D
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Floo mentioned experiences in her home so it is relative Matty. Stop playing post police and practice what you preach.
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Floo mentioned experiences in her home so it is relative Matty. Stop playing post police and practice what you preach.
Post police - if you were not doing what I said you were doing I would not have to be.
I am merely trying to show Floo the lesson that it took me far too long to learn, i e you are not worth the effort of replying to, which is why I ignore your more provocative and insulting and ignorant posts and will continue to do so in the future.
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How incestuous this thread is becoming.
Posts and answers flashing to-and-fro on a thread about (supposedly) witchcraft. The only posts being ignored? Those ,made by the only (I think) bona fide witcg on the Forum!
If you read the link in the OP, you'll find it's not about actual witchcraft but about the abuse being inflicted on children accused of a pejorative stereotype of witchcraft (wrongly).
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How incestuous this thread is becoming.
Posts and answers flashing to-and-fro on a thread about (supposedly) witchcraft. The only posts being ignored? Those ,made by the only (I think) bona fide witch on the Forum!
If you read the link in the OP, you'll find it's not about actual witchcraft but about the abuse being inflicted on children accused of a pejorative stereotype of witchcraft (wrongly).
Strange though it may be for this forum, I did actually read the OP and did understand the content.
The post on which you are commenting is Reply #51 - in responce to #1, #21, #27, #36, #39, #40 and #48.
These have no connection to the OP either!
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He will find no answers for his illness, whatever it is, in the Bible. He can only rely on the medical profession.
Sadly for you, Len, I know of several people who were told in no uncertain terms by the medical profession that they had X months to live, yet continued to live long beyond that timeframe? In some cases, the individual asked Christian friends to pray that they would live beyond the medical professionals' timeframe. In some cases, they didn't. Can we really rely on the medical profession in the way you claim?
So what do you think is more likely: a mistaken prognosis or the creator of the Universe intervenes because some people prayed to him?
I can't believe that , in the 21st century you have so much faith in a practice that is closer to the witch doctors of yore than evidence based medicine.
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I can't believe that in the 21st century you have so much faith in a practice that is closer to the witch doctors of yore than evidence based medicine.
It is odd that you say that, Jeremy, because seeing dressed up Christian leaders chanting their chants and performing their rituals often reminds me of dressed up primitive witch doctors dancing round there fires in the jungle and calling on their "spirits" to help or save them.
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I can't believe that in the 21st century you have so much faith in a practice that is closer to the witch doctors of yore than evidence based medicine.
It is odd that you say that, Jeremy, because seeing dressed up Christian leaders chanting their chants and performing their rituals often reminds me of dressed up primitive witch doctors dancing round there fires in the jungle and calling on their "spirits" to help or save them.
The latter now call themselves pagans, and are currently practising dressing up and chanting for Halloween. ;)
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I can't believe that in the 21st century you have so much faith in a practice that is closer to the witch doctors of yore than evidence based medicine.
It is odd that you say that, Jeremy, because seeing dressed up Christian leaders chanting their chants and performing their rituals often reminds me of dressed up primitive witch doctors dancing round there fires in the jungle and calling on their "spirits" to help or save them.
The latter now call themselves pagans, and are currently practising dressing up and chanting for Halloween. ;)
Actually, you again publish your total ignorance of things Pagan!
Chanting - yes
Dressing up - Some, yes, some others, no.
For Hallowe'en - never in a million years; For Samhain (pronounced Sah-wane) yes, definitely.
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Or not. I'm not chanting, not dressing up. Well, maybe for the ghost train ride with the kids.
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Or not. I'm not chanting, not dressing up. Well, maybe for the ghost train ride with the kids.
I posted for myself - different pagans have different ways of celebrating our Pagan festivals.
Whichever way you choose to celebrate Lady Rhi, I wish you and yours a blessed Samhain.
Bright Blessings, Love and Light, and may the Old Ones watch over you and yours always.
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Or not. I'm not chanting, not dressing up. Well, maybe for the ghost train ride with the kids.
I posted for myself - different pagans have different ways of celebrating our Pagan festivals.
Whichever way you choose to celebrate Lady Rhi, I wish you and yours a blessed Samhain.
Bright Blessings, Love and Light, and may the Old Ones watch over you and yours always.
And to you. Blessed be. :)
<hug>
Indeed, we do have many ways. I've found overly formal ritual not to be my thing. I tend to meditate, mostly, along with stuff like going for long walks with the dog, planting trees, and feeding birds, and of course feasting and cakes and ale. :)
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
I've never seen a pagan on here denigrate Christian practice.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
I've never seen a pagan on here denigrate Christian practice.
I have. Try trawling through some of CMG KCMG GCMG's stuff.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
I am not denigrating Christianity, just Christians.
. . . if anybody could be bothered!
You are bothered to on every possible occasion.
I recommend to your investigation the Roman god Janus!
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
I am not denigrating Christianity, just Christians.
. . . if anybody could be bothered!
You are bothered to on every possible occasion.
I recommend to your investigation the Roman god Janus!
Christians are defined by their religion: denigrate the one, and you denigrate both.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
Are they? You are a member of a group that partakes of symbolic/magical cannibalism, I can't see much in any form of paganism that isn't eminently more sensible than that.
O.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
I am not denigrating Christianity, just Christians.
. . . if anybody could be bothered!
You are bothered to on every possible occasion.
I recommend to your investigation the Roman god Janus!
Christians are defined by their religion: denigrate the one, and you denigrate both.
Moderator: content removed.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
I've never seen a pagan on here denigrate Christian practice.
I have. Try trawling through some of CMG KCMG GCMG's stuff.
As Matt says, both he and I have criticised Christians, or more specifically those Christian ideas and attitudes that lead to discrimination, emotional pain and spiritual abuse. Neither of us find fault with Christian practices, nor the majority of Christians who tend to be easy-going and tolerant.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
Oh I don't know, BA, I find that Christianity is especially open to ridicule, and in particular when encountering those Christians (but not all Christians, I hasten to add) who are precious about their faith and who would seemingly prefer it if the rest of us took their faith as seriously as they do themselves.
In contrast, I've always found Pagans to be far less precious, and much less 'up themselves', than a good number of you Christian guys.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
Are they? You are a member of a group that partakes of symbolic/magical cannibalism, I can't see much in any form of paganism that isn't eminently more sensible than that.
O.
Symbolic/magical cannibalism . . . what they call transubstantiation . . . I never thought of it quite like that before . . . that would also mean that they are into symbolic/magical vampirism, wouldn't it?
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
Are they? You are a member of a group that partakes of symbolic/magical cannibalism, I can't see much in any form of paganism that isn't eminently more sensible than that.
O.
Symbolic/magical cannibalism . . . what they call transubstantiation . . . I never thought of it quite like that before . . . that would also mean that they are into symbolic/magical vampirism, wouldn't it?
Vampirism's just emo cannibalism, isn't it? :)
Whether it's symbolic or magical depends on whether the particular sect you follow believes in transubstantiation as per Catholic doctrine (i.e. the wine and wafer actually become Jesus' blood and flesh) or the less bat-shit crazy variant where it only 'spiritually' changes.
O.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
Oh I don't know, BA, I find that Christianity is especially open to ridicule, and in particular when encountering those Christians (but not all Christians, I hasten to add) who are precious about their faith and who would seemingly prefer it if the rest of us took their faith as seriously as they do themselves.
In contrast, I've always found Pagans to be far less precious, and much less 'up themselves', than a good number of you Christian guys.
Anything is open to ridicule if you set your mind to it, and most non-Christians on here seem to have set their minds to it.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
Are they? You are a member of a group that partakes of symbolic/magical cannibalism, I can't see much in any form of paganism that isn't eminently more sensible than that.
O.
Symbolic/magical cannibalism . . . what they call transubstantiation . . . I never thought of it quite like that before . . . that would also mean that they are into symbolic/magical vampirism, wouldn't it?
Idiot!
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
Are they? You are a member of a group that partakes of symbolic/magical cannibalism, I can't see much in any form of paganism that isn't eminently more sensible than that.
O.
Symbolic/magical cannibalism . . . what they call transubstantiation . . . I never thought of it quite like that before . . . that would also mean that they are into symbolic/magical vampirism, wouldn't it?
Idiot!
Sorry, is that 'idiot' because he didn't realise that vampires are just cannibals with dress sense and a diet, or 'idiot' because you don't like the characterisation but can't actually find anything to suggest that it's wrong, or just an out and out ad hominem because it's your inclination?
O.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
Oh I don't know, BA, I find that Christianity is especially open to ridicule, and in particular when encountering those Christians (but not all Christians, I hasten to add) who are precious about their faith and who would seemingly prefer it if the rest of us took their faith as seriously as they do themselves.
In contrast, I've always found Pagans to be far less precious, and much less 'up themselves', than a good number of you Christian guys.
Anything is open to ridicule if you set your mind to it, and most non-Christians on here seem to have set their minds to it.
Enough is enough and, put bluntly your entertainament value has diminished to the poiint where I, for one am no longer interested in proving you with straight lines for what you rather lamely thisnk is humour.
I have set for myself a set of conditions which, in future, your posts must fulfil before I will respond to them. Until you fulfil them I would like to wish you well . . . I would like to but cannot with a straight face.
Until the time when you do fulfil my requirements - and in tune with the foregoing exchange of insults - May your earholes turn to arseholes and shit all over your shoulders.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
Are they? You are a member of a group that partakes of symbolic/magical cannibalism, I can't see much in any form of paganism that isn't eminently more sensible than that.
O.
Symbolic/magical cannibalism . . . what they call transubstantiation . . . I never thought of it quite like that before . . . that would also mean that they are into symbolic/magical vampirism, wouldn't it?
Idiot!
Sorry, is that 'idiot' because he didn't realise that vampires are just cannibals with dress sense and a diet, or 'idiot' because you don't like the characterisation but can't actually find anything to suggest that it's wrong, or just an out and out ad hominem because it's your inclination?
O.
It's idiot because: " A person who is considered foolish or stupid." That's all.
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I must say, I find it rather amusing that some pagans are happy to denigrate Christianity, and other religions, when their own practices are far more open to ridicule, if anybody could be bothered!
Are they? You are a member of a group that partakes of symbolic/magical cannibalism, I can't see much in any form of paganism that isn't eminently more sensible than that.
O.
Symbolic/magical cannibalism . . . what they call transubstantiation . . . I never thought of it quite like that before . . . that would also mean that they are into symbolic/magical vampirism, wouldn't it?
Idiot!
Sorry, is that 'idiot' because he didn't realise that vampires are just cannibals with dress sense and a diet, or 'idiot' because you don't like the characterisation but can't actually find anything to suggest that it's wrong, or just an out and out ad hominem because it's your inclination?
O.
. . . or all of the above?
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It's idiot because: " A person who is considered foolish or stupid." That's all.
When it comes to value judgments I find it's always useful to look from where they originate...
If you find an argument, feel free to bring it with you next time.
O.
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It's idiot because: " A person who is considered foolish or stupid." That's all.
When it comes to value judgments I find it's always useful to look from where they originate...
If you find an argument, feel free to bring it with you next time.
O.
I'll do just as I wish, and not at your invitation.