Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Keith Maitland on October 28, 2015, 02:46:04 AM
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The press are credulously reporting a World Health Organisation report: "Bacon, ham and sausages rank alongside cigarettes as a major cause of cancer, the World Health Organisation has said.”
They add: “"Its report says each 50g of processed meat a day - the equivalent of one sausage, or less than two slices of bacon - increases the chance of developing bowel cancer by 18 per cent.”
An increase of 18% sounds very bad, almost as if your lifespan will be reduced by 18%
I know that sensible people would not touch a WHO report with a very long stick for fear of catching something, but this is very silly, even by their standards. They have ranked bacon sandwiches in that category not on their risk, but on the strength of the evidence that there is a very high probability of there being some risk, even if if it is very slight. That is, if WHO are certain that the risk is trivial, it goes into the top category of evidence based statements!
"Global health experts listed processed meat as a cancer-causing substance - the highest of five possible rankings, shared with alcohol, asbestos, arsenic and cigarettes.”
This is stupid, stupid, stupid.
It is part of a mendacious habit in which charities and health groups propagandise relative risks without mentioning absolute risks.
RTWT here:
http://drjamesthompson.blogspot.com/2015/10/bacon-sandwich-hysteria.html#comment-form
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One hundred per cent behind you Keith, but you are a couple of days late.
Sriram has already put his spin on this topic. Needless to say he is spinning in a different direction from you.
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The press are credulously reporting a World Health Organisation report: "Bacon, ham and sausages rank alongside cigarettes as a major cause of cancer, the World Health Organisation has said.”
They add: “"Its report says each 50g of processed meat a day - the equivalent of one sausage, or less than two slices of bacon - increases the chance of developing bowel cancer by 18 per cent.”
An increase of 18% sounds very bad, almost as if your lifespan will be reduced by 18%
I know that sensible people would not touch a WHO report with a very long stick for fear of catching something, but this is very silly, even by their standards. They have ranked bacon sandwiches in that category not on their risk, but on the strength of the evidence that there is a very high probability of there being some risk, even if if it is very slight. That is, if WHO are certain that the risk is trivial, it goes into the top category of evidence based statements!
"Global health experts listed processed meat as a cancer-causing substance - the highest of five possible rankings, shared with alcohol, asbestos, arsenic and cigarettes.”
This is stupid, stupid, stupid.
It is part of a mendacious habit in which charities and health groups propagandise relative risks without mentioning absolute risks.
RTWT here:
http://drjamesthompson.blogspot.com/2015/10/bacon-sandwich-hysteria.html#comment-form
Totally agree.
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One hundred per cent behind you Keith, but you are a couple of days late.
Sriram has already put his spin on this topic. Needless to say he is spinning in a different direction from you.
Doesn't he always - from everyone esle!
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Agree very much.
Like many women I have regular smear tests. A UK study showed that for every cancer case caught 158 women have unnecessary procedures following 'abnormal' smears. One in twelve women who have smears will get a recall at some point even though only 3,000 cases are detected each year, including women who have had 'normal' test results.
I was discussing this with a friend of mine- as mothers we both feel we have to have smears because of the responsibilities we have, but we could be putting ourselves at risk of having unnecessary medical procedures which themselves carry risks. But doctors and practice nurses make you feel as though you are putting your life at risk if you opt out of testing.
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Agree very much.
Like many women I have regular smear tests. A UK study showed that for every cancer case caught 158 women have unnecessary procedures following 'abnormal' smears. One in twelve women who have smears will get a recall at some point even though only 3,000 cases are detected each year, including women who have had 'normal' test results.
I was discussing this with a friend of mine- as mothers we both feel we have to have smears because of the responsibilities we have, but we could be putting ourselves at risk of having unnecessary medical procedures which themselves carry risks. But doctors and practice nurses make you feel as though you are putting your life at risk if you opt out of testing.
I get great pleasure out of knowing that every couple of years I get to send very real shit through the post to be tested for bowel/intestinal cancer!
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Really, you send it through the mail? What do you pay for postage on your crap? Why not deliver it yourself and leave it on the front steps, in a brown paper bag, lit on fire?
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It's already postage paid iirc. Burnt crap wouldn't be much good.
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Agree very much.
Like many women I have regular smear tests. A UK study showed that for every cancer case caught 158 women have unnecessary procedures following 'abnormal' smears. One in twelve women who have smears will get a recall at some point even though only 3,000 cases are detected each year, including women who have had 'normal' test results.
I was discussing this with a friend of mine- as mothers we both feel we have to have smears because of the responsibilities we have, but we could be putting ourselves at risk of having unnecessary medical procedures which themselves carry risks. But doctors and practice nurses make you feel as though you are putting your life at risk if you opt out of testing.
I get great pleasure out of knowing that every couple of years I get to send very real shit through the post to be tested for bowel/intestinal cancer!
We receive ours every three years, it seems well worth doing.
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It's already postage paid iirc. Burnt crap wouldn't be much good.
Udayana
Quite correct - but, being on the wrong side of the pond, he hasn't got a clue what I was talking about but just HAD to have a shot at me!
I post crap to the laboratory - he posts it on here.
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Agree very much.
Like many women I have regular smear tests. A UK study showed that for every cancer case caught 158 women have unnecessary procedures following 'abnormal' smears. One in twelve women who have smears will get a recall at some point even though only 3,000 cases are detected each year, including women who have had 'normal' test results.
I was discussing this with a friend of mine- as mothers we both feel we have to have smears because of the responsibilities we have, but we could be putting ourselves at risk of having unnecessary medical procedures which themselves carry risks. But doctors and practice nurses make you feel as though you are putting your life at risk if you opt out of testing.
I get great pleasure out of knowing that every couple of years I get to send very real shit through the post to be tested for bowel/intestinal cancer!
We receive ours every three years, it seems well worth doing.
Considering what the possible result of NOT doing so is - I agree.
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Matty, the truth is that you don't send your crap through the mail. That is done for you. Another one of your over the top fibs. And that is why I took a shot at your stupid attempt at being funny. Get real, if you Brits have to actually collect and mail your own poop, then your nation needs help.
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Agree very much.
Like many women I have regular smear tests. A UK study showed that for every cancer case caught 158 women have unnecessary procedures following 'abnormal' smears. One in twelve women who have smears will get a recall at some point even though only 3,000 cases are detected each year, including women who have had 'normal' test results.
I was discussing this with a friend of mine- as mothers we both feel we have to have smears because of the responsibilities we have, but we could be putting ourselves at risk of having unnecessary medical procedures which themselves carry risks. But doctors and practice nurses make you feel as though you are putting your life at risk if you opt out of testing.
I get great pleasure out of knowing that every couple of years I get to send very real shit through the post to be tested for bowel/intestinal cancer!
We receive ours every three years, it seems well worth doing.
Considering what the possible result of NOT doing so is - I agree.
My husband's test kit came by post the other day. It is so simple to do and then post back in the prepaid envelope.
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Matty, the truth is that you don't send your crap through the mail. That is done for you. Another one of your over the top fibs. And that is why I took a shot at your stupid attempt at being funny. Get real, if you Brits have to actually collect and mail your own poop, then your nation needs help.
Yep It needs help from a nation which junked the right wing.
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Matty, the truth is that you don't send your crap through the mail. That is done for you. Another one of your over the top fibs. And that is why I took a shot at your stupid attempt at being funny. Get real, if you Brits have to actually collect and mail your own poop, then your nation needs help.
Yes we do that because it's more cost effective, and less embarassing than taking a tube of poop into a surgery or going to a surgery to take a dump.
For more details here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Cancer-of-the-colon-rectum-or-bowel/Pages/Screeningforbowelcancer.aspx
On a further trawl of t'internet the UK is not alone in adopting this method - as France, Austria and Germany amongst others use it.
In Austria, where 61% of all those studied reported having undertaken a FOBT, deaths from CRC dropped by 39% for men and 47% for women during the period
CRC = Colorectal Cancer
FOBT = Faecal Occult* Blood Test
* in this instance (for clarification before some wit starts on about witches, etc) = medicine
(of a disease or process) not accompanied by readily discernible signs or symptoms.
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Matty, the truth is that you don't send your crap through the mail. That is done for you. Another one of your over the top fibs. And that is why I took a shot at your stupid attempt at being funny. Get real, if you Brits have to actually collect and mail your own poop, then your nation needs help.
Yes we do that because it's more cost effective, and less embarassing than taking a tube of poop into a surgery or going to a surgery to take a dump.
For more details here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Cancer-of-the-colon-rectum-or-bowel/Pages/Screeningforbowelcancer.aspx
On a further trawl of t'internet the UK is not alone in adopting this method - as France, Austria and Germany amongst others use it.
In Austria, where 61% of all those studied reported having undertaken a FOBT, deaths from CRC dropped by 39% for men and 47% for women during the period
CRC = Colorectal Cancer
FOBT = Faecal Occult* Blood Test
* in this instance (for clarification before some wit starts on about witches, etc) = medicine
(of a disease or process) not accompanied by readily discernible signs or symptoms.
Thanks Trent - saved me from another savaging (I'm so scared) by the ignorant unbelieveing Canadian.
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Seems ironic considering heme iron is one of the components of red meat implicated in causing cancer:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/wellbeing/health-advice/meat-health-truth-science-food-nutrition-vegetarian/
Though the most interesting finding is immune response related:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11316316/Red-meat-triggers-toxic-immune-reaction-which-causes-cancer-scientists-find.html
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What I don't understand is that cancer seems more common these days, yet red meat has always been a staple of the diet, possibly more so than today.
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What I don't understand is that cancer seems more common these days, yet red meat has always been a staple of the diet, possibly more so than today.
Re red meat - is it not possible that the attack of red-meat is because the higher echelons the nutritionist world has been subtly taken over by the Militant Veggie Mafia?
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Not sure it really is more common - just that people used to die of other things earlier - cancer usually takes longer to kill you, and we are better at detecting it. Also whatever we ate, we eat a lot more of it now.
In any case, we have more exposure to various chemicals and additives we didn't used to. Then there is skin cancer, holes in the ozone layer, increased radiation due to technology, particulates from diesel etc etc.
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What I don't understand is that cancer seems more common these days, yet red meat has always been a staple of the diet, possibly more so than today.
Re red meat - is it not possible that the attack of red-meat is because the higher echelons the nutritionist world has been subtly taken over by the Militant Veggie Mafia?
You mean ..maybe the illuminati have gone veg in a last ditch attempt to save the world?
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Not sure it really is more common - just that people used to die of other things earlier - cancer usually takes longer to kill you, and we are better at detecting it. Also whatever we do ate, we eat a lot more of it now.
In any case, we have more exposure to various chemicals and additives we didn't used to. Then there is skin cancer, holes in the ozone layer, increased radiation due to technology, particulates from diesel etc etc.
One of the greatest discussions about humanity has yet to be inaugurated - just how long is the world going to be able to continue to support humanity at the rate that, currently, humanity is destroying it?
50 years? 100 years? 1,000 years?
Or, it is I think possble, someone is going to come up with a idea that will result in a catastrophic natural event that will wipe out humanity next year.
We, humanity, are stupid enough for it to happen.
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What I don't understand is that cancer seems more common these days, yet red meat has always been a staple of the diet, possibly more so than today.
Re red meat - is it not possible that the attack of red-meat is because the higher echelons the nutritionist world has been subtly taken over by the Militant Veggie Mafia?
You mean ..maybe the illuminati have gone veg in a last ditch attempt to save the world?
Them or some other bunch of extremists of one form or another! Extremists and extremisms seem to be breeding faster than flies these days.
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I agree. This is just scare tactics to get us to become more veggified.
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Has anybody noticed that when one eats Bacon or sausage it comes out as a poo.....but the reverse is never observed.
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Not sure it really is more common - just that people used to die of other things earlier - cancer usually takes longer to kill you, and we are better at detecting it. Also whatever we do ate, we eat a lot more of it now.
In any case, we have more exposure to various chemicals and additives we didn't used to. Then there is skin cancer, holes in the ozone layer, increased radiation due to technology, particulates from diesel etc etc.
One of the greatest discussions about humanity has yet to be inaugurated - just how long is the world going to be able to continue to support humanity at the rate that, currently, humanity is destroying it?
50 years? 100 years? 1,000 years?
Or, it is I think possble, someone is going to come up with a idea that will result in a catastrophic natural event that will wipe out humanity next year.
We, humanity, are stupid enough for it to happen.
Yes, mankind is stupid and something has to snap and pretty soon........and no doubt it will be the perfect storm...
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They add: “"Its report says each 50g of processed meat a day - the equivalent of one sausage, or less than two slices of bacon - increases the chance of developing bowel cancer by 18 per cent.”
An increase of 18% sounds very bad, almost as if your lifespan will be reduced by 18%
No it doesn't sound anything like your life span will be reduced by 18%.
What does it actually mean? Well, in 2011 75 men in every 100,000 were diagnosed with bowel cancer. Let's assume they all exceeded the sausage limit. Had there been no sausages or bacon, only 64 men in every 100k would have been diagnosed with bowel cancer.
All this means that my chance of avoiding bowel cancer next year is 99.925% whereas, if I give up bacon sandwiches et al, my chance of avoiding bowel cancer rises to 99.937%.
I'll take my chances, crispy please.
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What I don't understand is that cancer seems more common these days, yet red meat has always been a staple of the diet, possibly more so than today.
Re red meat - is it not possible that the attack of red-meat is because the higher echelons the nutritionist world has been subtly taken over by the Militant Veggie Mafia?
These things are always cultural. Follow the Zeitgeist.
Cereals will be the next target I think. There's more logic in that - homo erectus cooked meat, but grain crops are a much more recent invention, which we can't be biologically adapted to.
The meat industry needs to get its act together. The fat scare is promoted by the corn syrup industry, which has done very well out of it. Only recently I was looking at a reduced-fat product which had 50% more calories than the plain version.
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Matty, the truth is that you don't send your crap through the mail. That is done for you. Another one of your over the top fibs. And that is why I took a shot at your stupid attempt at being funny. Get real, if you Brits have to actually collect and mail your own poop, then your nation needs help.
Yes we do that because it's more cost effective, and less embarassing than taking a tube of poop into a surgery or going to a surgery to take a dump.
But over there they don't take dumps, they have colonic irrigation instead.
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Not sure it really is more common - just that people used to die of other things earlier - cancer usually takes longer to kill you
If they found a cure for heart disease, think how much cancer that would cause.
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What I don't understand is that cancer seems more common these days, yet red meat has always been a staple of the diet, possibly more so than today.
Cancers are essentially (though not exclusively) a disease of old age. They occur because errors occur in dna replication, the longer one lives the more times our cells replicate and the greater the likelihood that replication errors occur.
So, one reason for a perceived increase in the incidence of cancer is that we are living longer. Related to this is the fact that it is now generally easier to identify causes of death and also to diagnose cancers than used to be the case. In many cases a specific cause of death can only be identified as a result of post mortem investigation - in times gone by such investigation may not have been as common or as rigorous as today.
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Richard Carrier has a very good article on the assessment of the bacon risk
http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/8809
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Richard Carrier has a very good article on the assessment of the bacon risk
http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/8809
Mmmmm He's good on bacon.....that must mean he must be authorative on theology.
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Seriously trent? You fish your poop out of your toilet and mail it to your doctor? How do you package that. Cost effective? How is sending your poop through the mail cost effective? You are going to the doctor anyways, bring it with you. Yikes, I wouldn't care to be a postal worker and having to handle your crap. But I've never had a surgery nor have I ever had a doctor ask me to poop. And nobody I know or known has ever mentioned sending poop through Canada Post.
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Seriously trent? You fish your poop out of your toilet and mail it to your doctor? How do you package that. Cost effective? How is sending your poop through the mail cost effective? You are going to the doctor anyways, bring it with you. Yikes, I wouldn't care to be a postal worker and having to handle your crap. But I've never had a surgery nor have I ever had a doctor ask me to poop. And nobody I know or known has ever mentioned sending poop through Canada Post.
The Canadian Partnership Against Cancer
Home testing instructions for colon cancer;
SAMPLE 3
Repeat steps 1 to 10 above using the third flap.
Put the test card in the foil envelope and seal the envelope tightly.
Put the foil envelope and the completed form in the postage-paid envelope.
Mail it or drop it off at a community laboratory collection centre.
http://tinyurl.com/nkg385u
edited to replace long URL
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Richard Carrier has a very good article on the assessment of the bacon risk
http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/8809
Mmmmm He's good on bacon.....that must mean he must be authorative on theology.
So are you deliberately trying to drive a thread about cancer risk from processed meat off topic? Why would you want to be such an arsehole?
Hmm, may be arsehole isn't a good insult on a thread about bowel cancer... Why are you trying to be such a fuckwit?