Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Philosophy, in all its guises. => Topic started by: Bubbles on October 31, 2015, 09:18:57 AM
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Torridon
None of that is really addressing the core dilemma for religions, namely that they largely derive from a set of propositional truth claims about the nature of reality and these truth claims are things which are either correct or they are not. Some of the core beliefs of a muslim flatly contradict the core beliefs of the christian and vice versa and so while the muslim may be happy within his belief world and the christian likewise they are destined to be forever separated, divided by an instinct that elevates loyalty to your personal faith above loyalty to your fellow human beings.
So my question is......
Is loyalty to your personal faith above loyalty to your fellow human beings always wrong?
You can get martyrs in all things, including people who have suffered because they continued in their scientific work.
If your fellow human beings are, in your opinion doing something wrong, should you surrender your own personal take on it?
Where do you draw the line?
For me it would be where you hurt other people, rather than just yourself.
So in that sense I understand how someone could elevate their own personal faith over other human beings if they see something going on they believe is wrong.
I think it shouldn' t hurt others though, however suicide bombers could also argue they are doing exactly the same thing and it's just a matter of degree.
It's about being a martyr to a personal set of beliefs / values.
On one hand I can see that standing up against what you see as an injustice is a good thing on the other, it is a bit subjective and depends sometimes on what side you happen to be on.
Where do you think we should draw the line?
Is it only wrong when religious people do it?
It sounds like one of those things that ought to be common sense, but obviously isn't because so many people take on the trappings of a martyr and stand up for what they see as injustice, by killing lots of innocent people.
In times of war, who we see as a martyr, is part of the propaganda.
Should we ever put our own personal faith or judgement, over ours or others lives?
What do you think?
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For a pantheist there's no dilemma.
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Is loyalty to your personal faith above loyalty to your fellow human beings always wrong?
If my experience of humanity is anything to go by, our beliefs - religious or otherwise - are almost all about loyalty to our fellow human beings, Rose. After all, one's belief-system is usuallymirrored in what you believe to be best for humanity as a whole. I accept that one or two belief-systems are so individual that this may not be the case, but the majority are thus.
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Loyalty to a faith, even when it is very wrong is not good. Similarly loyalty to a relative or friend who has done something criminal is not good either if it prevents you informing the police, for instance.
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Like everything else with mankind its tribal so their loyalty is to their faith and God.
Though I'm not totally sure what you are specifically getting at in your dialogue in the OP; I follow Torridon's bit.
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Certainly in Islam, you HAVE to be totally faithful to your religion.
We've seen what's been happening recently !!!!
Nick
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Is loyalty to your personal faith above loyalty to your fellow human beings
Is loyalty to your personal faith in Unicorns above loyalty to your fellow human beings?
ippy
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Is loyalty to your personal faith above loyalty to your fellow human beings
Is loyalty to your personal faith in Unicorns above loyalty to your fellow human beings?
ippy
If you mean, in my prayers, do I ''grass other people up'' because of their conduct (to put it in your Essex vernacular) then yes but I am usually directed to the plank in my own eye.
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Like everything else with mankind its tribal so their loyalty is to their faith and God.
A god who loves the whole of humanity and instructs his followers to love the whole of humanity. I accept that, in just about every belief-system, there those who choose to put themselves before anyone/anything else, including the principle and/or deity that they claim to follow.
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Is loyalty to your personal faith above loyalty to your fellow human beings
Not sure whether you have seen my first post on this thread, ippy. If not, you will find that, in my understanding of 'belief' in its various forms your question is actually a non-question.
If my experience of humanity is anything to go by, our beliefs - religious or otherwise - are almost all about loyalty to our fellow human beings, Rose. After all, one's belief-system is usually mirrored in what you believe to be best for humanity as a whole. I accept that one or two belief-systems are so individual that this may not be the case, but the majority are thus.
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Like everything else with mankind its tribal so their loyalty is to their faith and God.
A god who loves the whole of humanity and instructs his followers to love the whole of humanity. I accept that, in just about every belief-system, there those who choose to put themselves before anyone/anything else, including the principle and/or deity that they claim to follow.
But sometimes the choice is between two evils or unsavoury options - something like Sophie's choice. Then what?