Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: JP on January 05, 2016, 03:01:58 PM
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So says the BBC banner headline
I am surprised, but then not surprised. When I saw the seemingly endless columns of people walking towards Germany I thought there were a lot of young men amongst them, vastly outnumbering any women, and of those women who did make the journey many were probalby married and had children. I suspect there were few single women amongst the masses. I also thought that because of this, many of these young men would struggle to find a female partner in their new home.
I do not think things like this will sit well with the general German population.
The Cologne police chief called it "a completely new dimension of crime"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046
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Hardly surprising. Such behaviour is normal in the parts of the world these refugees are coming from. Here in Finland there has recently been a spate of rapes by refugees and about 20 are being held on suspiscion at the moment. One more reason not to let them in. According to official police statistics here Middle-Eastern and North African men are almost twenty times more likely to commit rape.
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Hardly surprising. Such behaviour is normal in the parts of the world these refugees are coming from. Here in Finland there has recently been a spate of rapes by refugees and about 20 are being held on suspiscion at the moment. One more reason not to let them in. According to official police statistics here Middle-Eastern and North African men are almost twenty times more likely to commit rape.
Citation?
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Can you read Finnish? Don't worry, even some people who speak Finnish still deny the facts, having some sort of self-interest in mass immigration: potential cheap labour.
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Can you read Finnish? Don't worry, even some people who speak Finnish still deny the facts, having some sort of self-interest in mass immigration: potential cheap labour.
So produce your citation in Finnish - I can always run it through Google Translate.
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So produce your citation in Finnish - I can always run it through Google Translate.
Sod all to do with the OP - thank goodness you're back! :D
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So produce your citation in Finnish - I can always run it through Google Translate.
Here is one article from a national newspaper. It was also reported by the state broadcaster:
http://m.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2015031319350781_uu.shtml
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Fuck me, they love their vowels, don't they?
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Can you read Finnish? Don't worry, even some people who speak Finnish still deny the facts, having some sort of self-interest in mass immigration: potential cheap labour.
Asking for a citation isn't a denial. It's asking for evidence. Stop being defensive for no reason.
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I was going to say you would have thought that they would have been careful so as not to be sent back, or get a criminal record, but once you are drunk all that kind of thinking goes out the window - serves the Krauts right for being so stupid!!!
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Here is one article from a national newspaper. It was also reported by the state broadcaster:
http://m.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2015031319350781_uu.shtml
Ther article makes the point that the danger of rape by African/Arabian men is more of a problem for African/Arabian women.
You quite blatantly omitted that little gem didn't you?
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Sod all to do with the OP - thank goodness you're back! :D
Oh. I've been back a few days now, but I have not posted although I have been reading the posts.
I have not posted as I could not see the point of posting to the normal stream of "prove it/no YOU prove it", the never ending re-statements of pro- and anti- religious bollocks, watching Hope, yet again, stating that he considers that the atheists and pagans start all the unpleasantnesses . . . while I have been away I have been unable to post, but I have been able to read, what I have read has, for the most part, made not being able to post a real god-send!
Hope you had a good Solstice and New Year, Ol' Son! I know I did! My daughter told the landlord of her local that I was coming down and he got Moniak and Lindifarne in for me! What a Diamond Geezer he is!
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Ther article makes the point that the danger of rape by African/Arabian men is more of a problem for African/Arabian women.
You quite blatantly omitted that little gem didn't you?
On the state tv it was north african and middle eastern men in Finland. But don't worry. Just keep burying your head in the sand while they keep on raping our women.
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I see the mayor of Cologne mayor has offered fome advice to women in the city telling them to “keep at an arm’s length” from strangers to avoid sexual harassment.
These women clearly have a problem with being too close to young males, not all women of course but it is time they had a good hard look at themselves, their attitudes and review their inexcusable behavior to stop such things happening. Better still don't go out, stay at home.
Good advice from the Mayor
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On the state tv it was north african and middle eastern men in Finland. But don't worry. Just keep burying your head in the sand while they keep on raping our women.
The article you quoted says that the rise in rapes by north african and middle eastern men in Finland
was greater against north african and middle eastern women.
You just carry on burying your racist Finnish head in the sand.
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Why are some of you determined to make Ad O out to be a liar? A rape culture exists in the Middle East and only fools would believe this magically evaporates, when one holding such a evil mindset, sets foot on European soil.
http://millaproject.org/women-and-sexual-assault-in-the-middle-east-cries-for-help/
http://www.yourmiddleeast.com/features/incest-rapes-in-the-middle-east-spiral-of-silence-on-a-rising-crime_20062
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KP1efVgmYI
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Stop press: barbaric darkies attack pristine white women!
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Stop press: barbaric darkies attack pristine white women!
Wigginhall has gone nuclear.
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It doesn't help when you get self styled Muslim imams declaring its not the mans responsibility for rape, but is the woman's fault.
As this Muslim article points out, too many Muslim men pick up unsavoury ideas.
unfortunately, there are Muslim scholars and governments that will continue to punish women who have suffered rape, and justify the punishment in the name of Islam. To change things, it is important to take the first step – educate yourself and those around you. Do not allow any Muslim to harbor false or harmful misconceptions.
http://muslimgirl.net/6728/do-women-need-to-provide-four-witnesses-to-prove-rape/
It's not acceptable for men to have these ideas, who ever is doing these things should be punished and if they are refugees they should be deported and banned from coming back in, with no hope of claiming asylum.
I've seen to many nutters claiming it's ok to kill non Muslims to think it couldn't happen.
However they need to make sure they are punishing the correct people.
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Stop press: barbaric darkies attack pristine white women!
I think it is disgusting that so many are making this about foreigners rather than women being targeted.
A reason to argue and a reason to make it about race.
Pristine or not, barbaric black or white. IT IS WRONG.
That should have been the centre of the argument. Not a bunch of men turning it in to an racist or even refugee problem.
Men who do such things whatever their colour or country of origin are really just in the face of all descent men. They are saying they can come to your country and treat your women like shit and all the men will be interested in is the colour or their refugee status...
Way to go....
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I have a friend who works in the centre of Cologne and she is now terrified to walk in the streets that felt very safe just a few months ago, but now are infiltrated with Arab and North African migrants. Many incidents have not been reported in the press, and it took three days for this current incident to break into the news.
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So you don't think some men will bring there rape culture with them to Europe Sass? I know they will. There has been honour killings in my country carried out by immigrants. Yes violence against women is home grown as well. And I have had a link to a song about that on each of my posts for some time. You may not like the music but listen to the story, the lyrics.
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Why are some of you determined to make Ad O out to be a liar? A rape culture exists in the Middle East and only fools would believe this magically evaporates, when one holding such a evil mindset, sets foot on European soil.
http://millaproject.org/women-and-sexual-assault-in-the-middle-east-cries-for-help/
http://www.yourmiddleeast.com/features/incest-rapes-in-the-middle-east-spiral-of-silence-on-a-rising-crime_20062
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KP1efVgmYI
Some people just don't like the truth. These same people who are unwilling to admit that these people bring rape culture with them also have a vested interest in seeing Europe become Muslim, which is to see any remnant of a Christian Europe destroyed. Our forefathers must be turning in their graves who fought to keep the Turk out of Europe.
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Some people just don't like the truth. These same people who are unwilling to admit that these people bring rape culture with them also have a vested interest in seeing Europe become Muslim, which is to see any remnant of a Christian Europe destroyed. Our forefathers must be turning in their graves who fought to keep the Turk out of Europe.
Ad_O
I am pagan and I find the form of Islam peddled by the Islamic State and its clones as abhorrent as I find the various forms - Westboro Baptist etc - of fundamentalist Chritianity.
You are beiginning to appear to be of the same ilk as Westboroi.
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Ad_O
I am pagan and I find the form of Islam peddled by the Islamic State and its clones as abhorrent as I find the various forms - Westboro Baptist etc - of fundamentalist Chritianity.
You are beiginning to appear to be of the same ilk as Westboroi.
Eh? What the hell does some hillbilly Billy-Bob's heretical rebaptism sect got to do with any of this?
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Eh? What the hell does some hillbilly Billy-Bob's heretical rebaptism sect got to do with any of this?
Yes, why is he choosing a very small group to represent the whole.......most unscientific.
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On the state tv it was north african and middle eastern men in Finland. But don't worry. Just keep burying your head in the sand while they keep on raping our women.
Your women? You and the other men of Europe own us? Hasn't it occurred to you that this concept of owning women - individually and collectively - is part of the problem?
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Your women? You and the other men of Europe own us? Hasn't it occurred to you that this concept of owning women - individually and collectively - is part of the problem?
Who said anything about ownership? You're deflecting because you don't want to admit the problem.
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Who said anything about ownership? You're deflecting because you don't want to admit the problem.
'Our women', ad-o. Your words.
As it happens I live not that far from Bassingbourn barracks. This is a direct quote from the BBC report on the risk assessment carried out by the MoD into having cadets in the area.
The pre-training security report pointed to "widespread" sexual violence during the period of conflict in Libya, and added there was "some evidence that it is a significant domestic problem which could be reinforced by cultural attitudes and entrenched by a lack of justice for those affected and for perpetrators".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-30622867
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-32687137
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-32781117
But sexual violence doesn't just mean raping women.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-32749555
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The racist tone of tis thread is disgusting! >:(
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The racist tone of tis thread is disgusting! >:(
I never knew facts were racist. Keep on deflecting.
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I never knew facts were racist. Keep on deflecting.
The fact is that most women are raped by someone they know.
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In the context of the post, I would say "our" was more of about association with, not ownership.
I see we are at racist already I was wondering how long it would take.
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The fact is that most women are raped by someone they know.
That may be so but that's not the point. The point is the risk certain groups of people pose. Some pose more of a risk. In this case men from the Middle-East and North Africa are many times more likely to commit rape than Europeans. Do you feel comfortable with that? Now there are women who are scared to walk alone at night, especially if they are near a refugee reception centre. There have already been a number of rapes here committed by refugees in the past few months.
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In the context of the post, I would say "our" was more of about association with, not ownership.
Exactly!
I see we are at racist already I was wondering how long it would take.
Indeed. Heaven forbid that some people from some areas are more likely to commit rape. Let's just deny it instead.
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What are the racist Norwegians thinking of, apparantly (treading on eggshells to try and please everyone) they are running courses for immigrants on "How to treat women"
Let me post a few soundbites
SANDNES, Norway — When he first arrived in Europe, Abdu Osman Kelifa, a Muslim asylum seeker from the Horn of Africa, was shocked to see women in skimpy clothes drinking alcohol and kissing in public. Back home, he said, only prostitutes do that, and in locally made movies couples “only hug but never kiss.”
Confused, Mr. Kelifa volunteered to take part in a pioneering and, in some quarters, controversial program that seeks to prevent sexual and other violence by helping male immigrants from societies that are largely segregated or in which women show neither flesh nor public affection to adapt to more open European societies.
Many refugees “come from cultures that are not gender equal and where women are the property of men,” Mr. Isdal said. “We have to help them adapt to their new culture.”
“Men have weaknesses and when they see someone smiling it is difficult to control,” Mr. Kelifa said, explaining that in his own country, Eritrea, “if someone wants a lady he can just take her and he will not be punished,” at least not by the police.
And something I agree with
“The biggest danger for everyone is silence,”
http://tinyurl.com/qgu4jkz
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I find the naivety of anyone who thought that there wasn't going to be a cultural problem with regards to alcohol, sex and men from conservative areas of conflict baffling. But before we pat ourselves on the back for our cultural superiority let's not forget that young British people need lessons on what is consent and what isn't in school classrooms because our culture is so rubbish at making that clear.
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What are the racist Norwegians thinking of, apparantly (treading on eggshells to try and please everyone) they are running courses for immigrants on "How to treat women"
Let me post a few soundbites
And something I agree with
http://tinyurl.com/qgu4jkz
Haven't these people got access to the internet, they must know our culture by now?
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Your women? You and the other men of Europe own us? Hasn't it occurred to you that this concept of owning women - individually and collectively - is part of the problem?
Yes, I had to laugh when I read the 'our'. Our pure Aryan women, unsullied by the darkies, and only to be raped by (our) white men!
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We had a similar problem here in Britain with some Libyan guys who were being trained to be part of a Libyan army force. These people are animals and our politicians have been absolute idiots to have allowed them in.
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Yes, I had to laugh when I read the 'our'. Our pure Aryan women, unsullied by the darkies, and only to be raped by (our) white men!
Don't be a dickhead all your life. The point isn't that European men don't rape European women or that it sn't just as serious. The point is which are more likely to commit rape and if such are coming from outside is it wise to let them in in the first place. This is just one reason why we should be halting the flow of Muslims into Europe.
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http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/12/07/finland-rape-epidemic-by-muslim-migrants-is-only-one-reason-why-finns-dont-want-more-muslim-refugees-the-majority-of-whom-are-military-age-men/
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OUR women, OUR men, OUR children! Cry me a river, stop trying to invent an offence where non exists. A few here will try anything to misrepresent another and attempt to create a sexist monster. Pathetic!
https://helpingourwomen.org/
http://our-women.blogspot.ca/
"For our women"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMO2ls3c6yE
"Mind our men"
http://www.mindourmen.ie/
Our daughters
http://savingourdaughters.org/
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So you don't think some men will bring there rape culture with them to Europe Sass? I know they will. There has been honour killings in my country carried out by immigrants. Yes violence against women is home grown as well. And I have had a link to a song about that on each of my posts for some time. You may not like the music but listen to the story, the lyrics.
Where did I say that OMW?
European men won't stand for that type of thing.
Tell me something OMW, what is your country?
Then ask yourself, if you like music and what this tells you?
http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=177.0;topicseen
I know something affects the posts you write. I daresay if you come from a country where there have been honour killings and violence against women then your views originate from horror history witnessed.
I will take a look later at your cited music video. But have to get son to college right now. Take care.
Sass.x
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From Yahoo today:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-report-describes-cologne-attacks-mayhem-004129176.html
I am more inclined to believe this than some report from several hundrerd miles away in Finland.
It is still an horrendous situation that should not be allowed to continue and, I think, Germany is more likely to take a hard line than the U K in the same circunstances.
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"Hundreds of miles away" is an odd reason to doubt. Nevermind. It's attitudes like yours that make it easier for these people to attack women.
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Pretty sure that it's not Owl's attitudes that make violent misogynist dickwads attack wonen.
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I read that a couple of asylum seekers have been arrested in Kalmar for doing what those 18 asylum seekers did in Germany.
Sass,
The two honour killings here, that got the most headlines, involved families from Afghanistan and India.
Be warned, what the father says about the daughters he killed is horrible to the extreme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYBzZ-LRtTA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xELjoT-lf3Y
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Shaker,
You are absolutely correct, Matty doesn't hold that kinda impact.
It sure doesn't help to stop violence against women when there are so many low-informed lefties denying a rape culture coming with some asylum seeking men. There is a problem Shaker. 18 are asylum seekers in the case in Germany. A couple in Kalmar and I think more cases are going to pop up. There is a Middle Eastern rape culture.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13777308
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Pretty sure that it's not Owl's attitudes that make violent misogynist dickwads attack wonen.
No, not "make them" but "make it easier". We are reaping the fruit the multiculturalists have sown. They are creating a Muslim Europe where women are afraid to walk the streets alone.
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So you don't think some men will bring there rape culture with them to Europe Sass? I know they will. There has been honour killings in my country carried out by immigrants. Yes violence against women is home grown as well. And I have had a link to a song about that on each of my posts for some time. You may not like the music but listen to the story, the lyrics.
JC, there have been honour kiilings carried out in the UK, some by immigrants, some by indigenous people. Not sure that there is any more a 'culture' of rape in the Middle East than anywhere else.
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As it happens I live not that far from Bassingbourn barracks. This is a direct quote from the BBC report on the risk assessment carried out by the MoD into having cadets in the area.
The pre-training security report pointed to "widespread" sexual violence during the period of conflict in Libya, and added there was "some evidence that it is a significant domestic problem which could be reinforced by cultural attitudes and entrenched by a lack of justice for those affected and for perpetrators".
Note the context, Rhi - "The pre-training security report pointed to "widespread" sexual violence during the period of conflict in Libya, ..." I think you will find that 'widespread sexual violence' is a marker of war and conflict across the world. It is used as a means of subjugating the defeated people.
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No, not "make them" but "make it easier". We are reaping the fruit the multiculturalists have sown. They are creating a Muslim Europe where women are afraid to walk the streets alone.
I suggest that you ask your mate JC to send his memory back to his comments when I complained about the fact that where I live it is possible to go for days without hearing English spoken.
In his opinion I am an unrepentant racist - as it happens I am one of those who regrets the fact that identifying oneself as "English" is to attract unending abuse from those of Middle Eastern origin who consider that to identify oneself as English is offensive to Islam!
In the area where I am entitled to vote for local councillors there is not one councillor who is of anything but Indian origin.
Take your "multicultural" accusations and shove them where the sun don't shine!
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"Hundreds of miles away" is an odd reason to doubt. Nevermind. It's attitudes like yours that make it easier for these people to attack women.
Whereas men are still turning a blind eye to attacks of women when it comes to government cover ups.
I think the minister has it right. Deport those committing criminal offenses. Especially those which are physical attacks on men, women and children.
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It sounds awful
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12090388/Europe-in-crisis-over-sex-attacks-by-migrants-amid-calls-for-emergency-EU-meeting.html
The danger is that people will attack back, feeling they are being overwhelmed and they will hurt innocent people in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I don't know how they are going to resolve it, because the issue deep down is that there are too many of them and they are having to big an impact on the identity of the people in the areas they have moved into.
If they let it get out of hand it's going to be extremely unpleasant.
We don't want another holocaust.
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The racist tone of tis thread is disgusting! >:(
Yes. But then Eminent antitheists have no problem extrapolating the behaviour of a few Christians to the entirety of Christianity.
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I think the minister has it right. Deport those committing criminal offenses. Especially those which are physical attacks on men, women and children.
Unfortunately, there is a UN directive (is that the right word?) that states that one can'y make someone stateless. Remembering that 'only' "over half" of those involved in the Cologne events where asylum seekers/immigrants, Germany would be breaking this directive if they were to deport their own citizens. Furthermore, by fleeing their own homelands many of the asylum seekers are effectively stateless.
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I see that after sitting on the assaults for a week before it was reported in the media, originally playing it down and taking no action on the night by way of arresting anyone or stopping it before admitting it was much worse than what they iriginally said, the Germans have managed to wheel out lots of police with water cannon and tear gas for protestors.
On the original topic, I am of the opinion the events in Cologne at new year were culturally the norm for these people
Saira Khan.......
Not addressing this profound clash of cultures only promises to make things worse.
Having grown up in an Asian Muslim household and community in Britain, I can recognise the symptoms all too clearly. Along with my female Asian friends, I saw Asian men ‘get away with murder’, while as girls, we were strictly controlled – what we said, who we said it to, where we went, what we wore, who we married. As women, our conduct, behaviour and reputation all had a bearing on the family’s ‘honour’ – and to dishonour the family could mean death.
The Asian culture I grew up in was misogynistic – and it still is.
Here in the West, we need to stop burying our heads in the sand and accept that Asian, Arab and African men grow up in societies where misogyny is the cultural norm. We need to talk about it so we can change it.
http://tinyurl.com/hl9mf5c
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This seems like a good summation of the issues.
http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-1071175.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=
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Good to see the racists and neo-Nazis defending women's rights! Presumably, we will be seeing them on the next march against sexual violence against women in Germany, which is shockingly high. Oh, but hang on, that's violence by white men against white women - sorry, not interested.
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This seems like a good summation of the issues.
http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-1071175.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=
Pretty balanced piece
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Good to see the racists and neo-Nazis defending women's rights! Presumably, we will be seeing them on the next march against sexual violence against women in Germany, which is shockingly high. Oh, but hang on, that's violence by white men against white women - sorry, not interested.
You seem to hold the victims of this in some contempt?
Have you any thoughts on those who believe there is a cultural mis-match.
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You seem to hold the victims of this in some contempt?
Have you any thoughts on those who believe there is a cultural mis-match.
Where in wigginhall's post is there anything to allow the inference that he holds the victims in contempt?
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Obliquely #16 "pristine white women" plus in my opinion it seems for him to be a non crime.
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I see that after sitting on the assaults for a week before it was reported in the media, originally playing it down and taking no action on the night by way of arresting anyone or stopping it before admitting it was much worse than what they iriginally said, the Germans have managed to wheel out lots of police with water cannon and tear gas for protestors.
On the original topic, I am of the opinion the events in Cologne at new year were culturally the norm for these people
Saira Khan.......
http://tinyurl.com/hl9mf5c
Danger of swinging too far the other way. No doubt many men, Asian, Arab, African or not, grow up in misogynistic cultures and adopt unacceptable ways, but many others are perfectly fair and reasonable.
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Obliquely #16 "pristine white women" plus in my opinion it seems for him to be a non crime.
If by obliquely, you mean in no way other than in your feverish imagination, then that would at least be an internally consistent opinion.
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If by obliquely, you mean in no way other than in your feverish imagination, then that would at least be an internally consistent opinion.
Feverish imagination - I like it, I must use that as an alternative to opinion.
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Danger of swinging too far the other way. No doubt many men, Asian, Arab, African or not, grow up in misogynistic cultures and adopt unacceptable ways, but many others are perfectly fair and reasonable.
Although given her background she is well placed to have that opinion, it is probably just her feverish imagination.
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From Sky,
Sexual harassment in Egypt become so widespread that some businesses are finding unique ways to tackle the crisis.
Ninety-nine percent of Egyptian women say they've been harassed, according to a 2013 UN study, and much of this physical and verbal harassment happens on public transport.
Mai says she has complained to local police on the street about harassers but rather than help, the officers often mock her.
While some have taken steps to help women get around more safely, the reality is Egypt has a serious problem with sexual harassment, with deep roots in society.
Successive governments have ignored the problem, and it's become unbearably normal here.
For those fighting this societal disease, the only way forward is education and legislation - but it may take generations to fully cure.
I bet if you asked 100 women in a big UK city they had been sexually harrased on public transport, those who said yes would be nowhere near 99%.
Importing this into Europe must have consequences that need to be faced up to, in my opinion (feverish imagination).
http://tinyurl.com/ha5kvzx
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Where in wigginhall's post is there anything to allow the inference that he holds the victims in contempt?
Maybe he does maybe he doesn't but he seems to be in denial concerning refugees' attitudes concerning women, or just because some men of European origin have attacked European women we have no right to be concerned about an influx of people from North Africa and the Middle-East who are many more times likely to attack women. He seems to have fallen into some sort of fallacy and denial. Nevermind! Keep the multicultural dream alive man! ::) Europe is being destroyed bit by bit.
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Europe is being destroyed bit by bit.
And has been being destroyed long before there was ever a migrant issue. That's not to suuggest that there isn't a migrant issue; just that that issue is very recent - whereas the Bader Meinhof Group and others like it go way back.
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And has been being destroyed long before there was ever a migrant issue. That's not to suuggest that there isn't a migrant issue; just that that issue is very recent - whereas the Bader Meinhof Group and others like it go way back.
And that 'destroyed' Europe in what way?
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And has been being destroyed long before there was ever a migrant issue. That's not to suuggest that there isn't a migrant issue; just that that issue is very recent - whereas the Bader Meinhof Group and others like it go way back.
Europe has been going downhill ever since the Reformation but it's gone into overdrive now with the migrant crisis and anti-Christian powers.
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Europe has been going downhill ever since the Reformation but it's gone into overdrive now with the migrant crisis and anti-Christian powers.
Nurse, he's not only out of bed again, he's escaped from the clinic altogether.
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Europe has been going downhill ever since the Reformation but it's gone into overdrive now with the migrant crisis and anti-Christian powers.
This is downhill defined by someone that thinks treating women as property, as was true then, is obviously correct.
Attitudes like your's are what feeds the assaults in Cologne.
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This is downhill defined by someone that thinks treating women as property, as was true then, is obviously correct.
Nope. But let me correct myself. The West started going downhill at or around the time of Charlemagne, who was a dick.
Attitudes like your's are what feeds the assaults in Cologne.
No.
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Yes. And they assuredly feed anti-Semitism and the typical Christian arrogance of thinking that other people already with or without a religion need to be converted so that they believe what you believe.
It's as though in what passes for your mind it's still 1452 - even the idiotic language you use ('The Turk' to mean Muslims) reeks of mediaevalism. It's a wonder we haven't had 'The Jew' by now.
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Nope. But let me correct myself. The West started going downhill at or around the time of Charlemagne, who was a dick.
No.
And at the time of Charlemagne, women were treated as property too. So yes, your idea that your ability to treat women as property or indeed rape them as sanctioned by your god of filth and squalor in the OT, is precisely the sort of attitude about women that leads to the outage in Cologne.
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Obliquely #16 "pristine white women" plus in my opinion it seems for him to be a non crime.
Are you American? I ask only because you seem to be utterly tone-deaf to sarcasm.
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Eh? It really seems to irk you that someone might think you or anyone else needs to convert in order to be saved. Afraid that it might actually happen? Nevermind. Sit back and watch Europe slowly become Muslim. Sit back and watch them behead the infidels and ravage our wives and daughters.
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And at the time of Charlemagne, women were treated as property too. So yes, your idea that your ability to treat women as property or indeed rape them as sanctioned by your god of filth and squalor in the OT, is precisely the sort of attitude about women that leads to the outage in Cologne.
Are you on drugs? Where did I say say women are property? That I believe they are not is precisely why (or rather one of many reasons) I believe we shouldn't be letting in Muslims along with their rape culture into Europe.
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Eh? It really seems to irk you that someone might think you or anyone else needs to convert in order to be saved. Afraid that it might actually happen? Nevermind. Sit back and watch Europe slowly become Muslim. Sit back and watch them behead the infidels and ravage our wives and daughters.
No it irks me that not only do you speak of possession in the term 'our' but that you actually espouse it by harking back to a time when women were posessions as an ideal. It irks me that you tout the same medieval attitude as those you seek to blame. It irks me that your hypocrisy has supported the abuse of women and continues to do so
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Are you on drugs? Where did I say say women are property? That I believe they are not is precisely why (or rather one of many reasons) I believe we shouldn't be letting in Muslims along with their rape culture into Europe.
You are the one lauding times when women were treated as property, in both Pre Reformation and now the times of Charlemagne.
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Eh? It really seems to irk you that someone might think you or anyone else needs to convert in order to be saved. Afraid that it might actually happen?
Not in the slightest - it irks me because it's an ugly, ignorant and arrogant attitude which has caused an incalculable amount of misery and suffering.
Nevermind. Sit back and watch Europe slowly become Muslim. Sit back and watch them behead the infidels and ravage our wives and daughters.
You clearly don't mind coming across as utterly unhinged.
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No it irks me that not only do you speak of possession in the term 'our' but that you actually espouse it by harking back to a time when women were possessions as an ideal. It irks me that you tout the same medieval attitude as those you seek to blame. It irks me that your hypocrisy has supported the abuse of women and continues to do so
My hyprocrisy? Now I really do know that you and Shaker are on drugs. Saying that Europe started going downhill at a certain time doesn't mean I want to go back to that time, only that Europe needs to recover the faith of that time. Two different things. It's people like you who are responsible for the the current crisis.
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My hyprocrisy? Now I really do know that you and Shaker are on drugs. Saying that Europe started going downhill at a certain time doesn't mean I want to go back to that time, only that Europe needs to recover the faith of that time.
Because that has always made things better, hasn't it?
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My hyprocrisy? Now I really do know that you and Shaker are on drugs. Saying that Europe started going downhill at a certain time doesn't mean I want to go back to that time, only that Europe needs to recover the faith of that time. Two different things. It's people like you who are responsible for the the current crisis.
So, it was good apart from the things backed up by being a theocracy that tie in with those who also want a theocracy based on the same teaching (which include in the OT, your god sanctioning rape)?
But it is all us atheists that make you theocracy lot behave badly?
The only drug I have here is logic, I know you thi it is an invention of a demon created by an all powerful, omniscient 'god' but I suggest you try it.
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So, it was good apart from the things backed up by being a theocracy that tie in with those who also want a theocracy based on the same teaching (which include in the OT, your god sanctioning rape)?
But it is all us atheists that make you theocracy lot behave badly?
The only drug I have here is logic, I know you thi it is an invention of a demon created by an all powerful, omniscient 'god' but I suggest you try it.
You do not have logic. If you did then you wouldn't reject your creator. The West, however, isn't a very good example of anything. The Roman Empire in the East was a much better example.
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Are you American? I ask only because you seem to be utterly tone-deaf to sarcasm.
No, I get sarcasm but, oh yes there's a but, but I want to see what opinion people have about this. Just mocking darkies or pristine white women when it has been a seismic incident in Germany doesn't cut it for me, nor does deflecting it onto ancient Christianity or racists, or blaming the women themselves, sarcastically or not.
The Germans described it as "a completely new dimension of crime" and there has been over 500 criminal complaints 40% of which allege sexual assault.
They have also said "The men suspected of attacking women in Cologne on New Year's Eve were "almost exclusively" from a migration background, mainly North African Arab yet people concentrate on whiteys and white people do crime as well.
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No, I get sarcasm but, oh yes there's a but, but I want to see what opinion people have about this. Just mocking darkies or pristine white women when it has been a seismic incident in Germany doesn't cut it for me, nor does deflecting it onto ancient Christianity or racists, or blaming the women themselves, sarcastically or not.
None of those things actually occurred. You don't get sarcasm after all, obviously.
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None of what things?
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You do not have logic. If you did then you wouldn't reject your creator. The West, however, isn't a very good example of anything. The Roman Empire in the East was a much better example.
Indeed it was, though it's sort of like saying the Yorkshire Ripper is better than Harold Shipman. The Byzantine Empire followed some fairly precise views on patrician women's rights that followed from pre Christian Rome. But they focussed on those in patrician positions are not Christian. For those in serf positions any rights were male based, and for those in elite positions the rights were not Christian based.
So tell me, what part of a thousand years or whatever do you want to return to? And how does that with its no democracy, serfdom, no women's rights, oppression of the poor, women, homosexuals, work out as some ideal?
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None of what things?
Wigginhall mocking darkies or pristine white women.
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Sarcasm is a form of mocking or ridiciule
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I see we are on about how bad Christianity is now.
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I see we are on about how bad Christianity is now.
where?
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I might add religion has not been mentioned by me, it has been about cultural differences.
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Sarcasm is a form of mocking or ridiciule
Yes it is - but not necessarily mocking or ridicule of what's contained in the statement, as in this case. Wigginhall wasn't mocking or ridiculing victims of sexual assault; he was mocking and ridiculing the absurdly hysterical reaction of some to these incidents, individuals like ad_o who think that it spells the leading edge of a horde of swarthy ragheads swarming over here to ravish our ladies.
I hope that makes things clearer for you.
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Yes it is - but not necessarily mocking or ridicule of what's contained in the statement, as in this case. Wigginhall wasn't mocking or ridiculing victims of sexual assault; he was mocking and ridiculing the absurdly hysterical reaction of some to these incidents, individuals like ad_o who think that it spells the leading edge of a horde of swarthy ragheads swarming over here to ravish our ladies.
I hope that makes things clearer for you.
They have a strange way of showing their gratitude for being saved from wars and starvation, but most of them come across to me as economic migrants not desperate refugees - they also have the internet so they must have some idea what our norms are!
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I see we are on about how bad Christianity is now.
As NS says, where?
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Reading some of Saira Khan's piece reminded me of an element of the culture that was around when I was growing up - white working class. But an element is what it was - same as for the culture that Khan writes about. Misogyny doesn't recognise cultural or national perimeters.
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where?
Okay, I withdraw that one
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Given that it's mentioned on at least one national newspapers front pages every other day or so, in what way is it taboo?
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:o
And I think it's going to get worse. It's what happens when people feel swamped.
Because it's taboo and almost considered racist to mention it, it's going to get a lot worse.
The trouble is it's what is going to happen when migrants/refugees attack the resident population.
To attack refugee children though, that's even more base and sick.
People can be so horrible sometimes, when they get into mobs both refugees and residents.
This report is just a little skewed in favour of the immigrants.
Another police report shows that the station in question has been "taken over by all-male teenage immigrant gangs" who rob male vistors and grope female ones, any female who protests at this treatment usually winds up getting beating. Virtually no Swede travels via this station anymore, most prferring towalk to the stations either side of this one.
These male teen-age gang members were the "children" mentioned in the report.
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Given that it's mentioned on at least one national newspapers front pages every other day or so, in what way is it taboo?
The papers can get away with it - the public usually will not.
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The papers can get away with it - the public usually will not.
Apart from being pish, see your posts, a definition of taboo that means four or five front pages a week on national papers is beyond luducrous.
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It's a taboo in the sense you are regarded almost as an outcast for saying so, and the papers that do reflect the veiw seem to be being dismissed as hysterical.
1.
prohibited or restricted by social custom.
it's our social custom to protect those in danger that come in asylum seekers for example.
Some really obnoxious people have used that to protect them being deported for crimes they have committed elsewhere.
But we have often made sure they are represented and their case heard fairly, even to paying for it at great expense in legal aid.
I seem to see very little restriction and given that it is on the front pages of national newspapers, it obviously isn't prohibited.
You aren't being restricted on here either.
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Well, comments columns after online articles are often full of white racists, who don't seem inhibited at all. I suppose they are not yet saying, bring back concentration camps, and yellow stars for refugees, but they are not far off. Does this show a taboo?
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No, you aren't branded as anything as soon as you try and discuss it. There are some who might discuss it who are racist though, surely?
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Rose, you got the wrong end of the stick there. I'm not saying that anyone who criticizes immigration is a white racist. But comments columns are full of white racist comments, that is, a kind of herrenvolk approach.
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Was interested to see, (in this morning's newspaper review on BBC Breakfast ?), one of the MPs from Birmingham saying that it seemed no worse that what happens there of a Saturday night.
Is this naivity, truth, or what?
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Was interested to see, (in this morning's newspaper review on BBC Breakfast ?), one of the MPs from Birmingham saying that it seemed no worse that what happens there of a Saturday night.
Is this naivity, truth, or what?
Some Germans are saying that about the Oktoberfest, I mean, in terms of frequent sexual assaults on women. I have no idea if this is remotely true, and it's very difficult to get any information. I saw a bar-maid quoted, who said the worst culprits are Brits and Italians, but this is anecdata.
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Nothing to see here folks, move along.
It is clearly just a bunch of white racists stirring it all up, after all the same thing as happened in Cologne happens in Birmingham every Saturday night.
The rabid left tell us so. These same people also blamed the thousands of victims in the recent grooming scandals that the same rabid left did their very best to bury and keep secret.
White people are the problem here, white slags and white male supremacists.
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Yes of course.
But we do need to do something.
It's just what.
It's like I say, if you push people past their tolerance levels it gets nasty and the racists win.
That attack on women was really bad news, you would have thought they had more sense.
The racists will win if morons continue to behave like that.
And other morons respond by attacking anyone who doesn't look Swedish or who are refugee children. ( even if they were teenagers)
These things escalate.
Can I suggest then that saying you cannot discuss without being branded a racist is both incorrect and inflammatory itself? It's like those who talk about having homosexuality stuffed down their throat and it cuts off discussion itself, as it immediately implies a problem with one position.
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Some Germans are saying that about the Oktoberfest, I mean, in terms of frequent sexual assaults on women. I have no idea if this is remotely true, and it's very difficult to get any information. I saw a bar-maid quoted, who said the worst culprits are Brits and Italians, but this is anecdata.
Yes, I was reading about the problem of women being assaulted at gigs. The problem doesn't lie solely within one religion or culture.
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Birmingham, it happens in Birmingham every weekend and if it happens there, then I think we can safely assume it happens in all big cities, gigs and gatherings. Surely this has happened in Cologne before? Can someone please tell the German minister who called a “completely new dimension of crime” that they are incorrect. Oganised and co-ordinated sexual assault, pah, you could tell him it happens in Birmingham every week.
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Yes, there are certain things society has decided are to be frowned upon, that doesn't make a case that anything you happen to suggest is taboo, is actually taboo and when it is voiced by establishment areas, such as newspapers, MPs, political parties, then rhat's not one of those areas.
We have restrictions on this board, should we just remove them is it OK if I were to refer to Jewish people as cockrriaxhes, or call for homosexuality to be banned because all gay people sexuality assault babies?
Do we need to look at free speech, absolutely, now and in the future but it's never been a completely free right. We have exceptionally strong libel laws and that protects the establishment.
Do we have to talk about immigration without people being called racist or rabid, absolutely. Are some who talk about immigration racist or rabid, absolutely. But there is a strong part of the establishment ready willing and able to talk about immigration in terms that certainly do not seem as if it's taboo.
There is too much of tendency from many sides to immediately jump in and ask for people to be fired for comments. At the same time I think that some people deserved to be fired e.g. when a colleague was told that they deserved raping repeatedly by a senior manager.
There is a tendency to use the numpties on one side. stating that they are trying to shut down debate, to in turn deflect from numpties on one's own side. This we had the narrative of the cybernats during the referendum, which used the idiots twittering about traitors and other pish to try and portray one side as trying to shout the other down, whilst ignoring the equally ludicrous shite on the no side, or claiming that was different.
In these days of social media where any twat can twitter, and moron message board, it is always easy to find loons on any side. There are a whole bucket of them who regard any criticism of Islam as some piece of colonialism, and they deserve to ge called out. To argue though that some ding bat students union is creating a taboo when major newspapers tout the other view is just a nonsense.
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Yes, I was reading about the problem of women being assaulted at gigs. The problem doesn't lie solely within one religion or culture.
No it doesn't but there is a bit nos quoque here. That this is not a perfect society for women and that some will be assaulted on a Saturday night in Birmingham, does not mean that what happened in Cologne can just be dealt with as if by the comment it happens all the time. There was obviously a specific problem and we need to look how to deal with that. That doesn't stop us having to deal with women being treated badly elsewhere.
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I think the women attacked had a pretty good idea of the people who attacked them.
But of course it's politically incorrect to point the finger and identify them.
The women can't possibly know the ethnic group their attackers belong too, they must be wrong and it must be a mixture of ethnic groups.
Seriously?
::)
Apparently " victim blaming" is only allowed if the ethnic group of the attackers is a sensitive one.
All reports of rape tend to be anecdotal, because you don't normally have an audience.
The women victims can't be dismissed so easily.
Who is dismissing the victims?
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I think the women attacked had a pretty good idea of the people who attacked them.
But of course it's politically incorrect to point the finger and identify them.
The women can't possibly know the ethnic group their attackers belong too, they must be wrong and it must be a mixture of ethnic groups.
Seriously?
::)
Apparently " victim blaming" is only allowed if the ethnic group of the attackers is a sensitive one.
All reports of rape tend to be anecdotal, because you don't normally have an audience.
The women victims can't be dismissed so easily.
Who on here has suggested the above?
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No it doesn't but there is a bit nos quoque here. That this is not a perfect society for women and that some will be assaulted on a Saturday night in Birmingham, does not mean that what happened in Cologne can just be dealt with as if by the comment it happens all the time. There was obviously a specific problem and we need to look how to deal with that. That doesn't stop us having to deal with women being treated badly elsewhere.
The solutions may be different and responses framed according to each individual situation. But happens all the time? Yes it does. I grew up with it and it's really no different for my daughters' generation.
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The solutions may be different and responses framed according to each individual situation. But happens all the time? Yes it does. I grew up with it and it's really no different for my daughters' generation.
Sex harassment indeed happens all the time, but that would mean that because murders happen all the time we shouldn't look on terrorism as anything different.
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Sex harassment indeed happens all the time, but that would mean that because murders happen all the time we shouldn't look on terrorism as anything different.
Why? Terrorism and murder are different things. Harassment and rape are harassment and rape.
As I said before clearly there needs to be a specific response to the problems experienced in Cologne. But I'd like to see the same level of outrage and a need to 'do something' about the harassment that women face all the time when socialising.
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Why? Terrorism and murder are different things. Harassment and rape are harassment and rape.
As I said before clearly there needs to be a specific response to the problems experienced in Cologne. But I'd like to see the same level of outrage and a need to 'do something' about the harassment that women face all the time when socialising.
If people are killed in terrorism, seems like murder to me.
As for the outrage thing, that's another tu quoque and one touted from the other side as well.
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If people are killed in terrorism, seems like murder to me.
As for the outrage thing, that's another tu quoque and one touted from the other side as well.
Yes and no. I agree that terrorists are murders. But the motives are different as is the journey to get to committing terrorist atrocities. Treating them the same isn't going to work. I'm not sure how we prevent individuals from murdering; there's a discussion to be had on preventing terrorism though.
Well, I'm seeing plenty of outrage on this thread. They're raping our women, remember.
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Really?
I can't say I've noticed.
It happens occasionally, but on the whole, doesn't. In my world it's rare, happens to a minority.
I think " all the time, when socialising " might be a bit of an exaggeration.
It's true I greet both men and women with a kiss in my social group, but I quite enjoy that.
;)
Then you are lucky. But then from your comment I guess you largely socialise in mixed gender groups, probably with spouses. Kissing friends isn't harassment.
Where I won't disagree is that it is far worse for women younger than you or I.
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Really?
I can't say I've noticed.
It happens occasionally, but on the whole, doesn't. In my world it's rare, happens to a minority.
I think " all the time, when socialising " might be a bit of an exaggeration.
It's true I greet both men and women with a kiss in my social group, but I quite enjoy that. ( and everyone does it, as normal).
It's the only way I get to kiss 10 - 15 blokes on one night :-*. ( even if it's a peck on the cheek )
;)
'bit of exaggeration', I thought you didn't I want victim blaming?
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Yes, when you are younger and are going through the " night club " stage it can be a bit of a pain. I do remember that.
But I'm totally out of that scene now and perhaps I don't get the same feedback having two boys.
You having daughters would probably get a very different feed back.
:)
The harassment they get off classmates is enough to be going on with.
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Yes a friend of mine who went into teaching, had a boy in her class, threaten to rape her daughter. (Also at the same school)
It's a sort of bullying.
No, that's a criminal offence.
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I'm not, I just suspect Rhiannon has a different perspective at least where young women are concerned.
In my world (RL) , men harassing women is pretty rare.
Perhaps because I'm older, and have boys not girls, they are going to give me a different feedback to a daughter.
A daughter is going to share that sort of thing with her mum.
But what if someone were to say to someone who was a relative of someone attacked in Cologne that perhaps there was a 'bit of an exaggeration' in t account?
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A false and made up rape accusation.
http://us.cnn.com/2016/02/01/europe/germany-teen-migrant-rape-false/index.html
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Your link doesn't lead to anything.
Are you implying because one teenager jumped on the bandwagon, that all the other women are lying?
Link works for me
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Ther article makes the point that the danger of rape by African/Arabian men is more of a problem for African/Arabian women.
You quite blatantly omitted that little gem didn't you?
Ahh So there are different levels of rape. Race on race rape is acceptable in your book.
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Ahh So there are different levels of rape. Race on race rape is acceptable in your book.
Don't talk bollocks!
My point was that coments on this thread stuck to the premise that it was non-African/Arabian women whowere in danger from African/Arabian men.