Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Philosophy, in all its guises. => Topic started by: Sriram on February 28, 2016, 09:41:28 AM
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Hi everyone,
If we could globally decide on a set of Commandments (Do's and Don't's) that all humans universally should follow...what do you think they should be?
You could come up with as many Commandments as you want, think outside the box... and not necessarily follow the ancient ones. Cultural differences can be ignored.
One point I want to highlight is that the Commandments should not be merely for maintaining social order. That is not enough. The Commandments should also enable people to develop themselves as individuals, help them become more civilized and evolve mentally and intellectually beyond our present condition. So...there is an element of an ideal here.
I will give my ideas after I have heard from some of you.
Any views?
Sriram
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Hi everyone,
If we could globally decide on a set of Commandments (Do's and Don't's) that all humans universally should follow...what do you think they should be?
You could come up with as many Commandments as you want, think outside the box... and not necessarily follow the ancient ones. Cultural differences can be ignored.
One point I want to highlight is that the Commandments should not be merely for maintaining social order. That is not enough. The Commandments should also enable people to develop themselves as individuals, help them become more civilized and evolve mentally and intellectually beyond our present condition. So...there is an element of an ideal here.
I will give my ideas after I have heard from some of you.
Any views?
Sriram
Yes. This should be on the E & F board.
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Yes. This should be on the E & F board.
Hmmm...I can see that we are unlikely to get very far on this!! :(
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1 - No robot may harm a human or through inaction cause a human to come to harm.
2 - A robot must obey a human unless to do so would violate the first rule.
3 - No robot may harm itself, unless this would contradict either of the first two rules.
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Interesting stuff, this. Wikipedia has an entire page devoted to the subject:
https://goo.gl/bdDJxn
There are several examples there and although I would tweak a couple of points (I'd widen Penn Jillette's "human life" to "sentient life," for example) if I were to try to construct my own set of commandments it would come over merely as a rehash and rip-off of most of these.
Although not 'commandments' as such, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is one of the best templates for human existence that I'm aware of to date.
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Interesting stuff, this. Wikipedia has an entire page devoted to the subject:
https://goo.gl/bdDJxn
There are several examples there and although I would tweak a couple of points (I'd widen Penn Jillette's "human life" to "sentient life," for example) if I were to try to construct my own set of commandments it would come over merely as a rehash and rip-off of most of these.
Although not 'commandments' as such, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is one of the best templates for human existence that I'm aware of to date.
Thanks for that Shaker. I tried your link but couldn't get anything.
I have not read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It is obviously all about liberty and the right of any human to live a free life.
I agree that we today have a nearly universal understanding of Human Rights... and not just countries but even most individuals across the world would subscribe to it.
Your point does answer most of what I wanted to bring out in this thread....but it still leaves out human Duties.
What is it that we can and should expect from every individual (besides abiding by the law)? Is individual liberty everything? Does not liberty, in some cases, kill the human spirit rather than kindle it?
We must remember that we are only half human. We are half animal also. Individual liberty can in many cases encourage the animal in us and kill the human. And the law cannot cover everything.
Some form of social control and discipline is important besides the idea of individual liberty. Also, respecting human liberty by itself does not provide life with a meaning.
Why should anyone respect individual liberty? What happens if an individual takes a gun and shoots down several people....is it just the law of the land that one has to respect? Is there more to a moral code than just obeying the law?
How about our responsibilities towards the elderly and disabled? How about our responsibilities towards our families and children? How about our responsibilities towards our environment? How about our responsibilities to learn and grow...to become less animal and more human?
Just some thoughts.
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We must remember that we are only half human. We are half animal also.
We're not centaurs. We're a species of animal that concocted the term human to try to obscure that inescapable fact.
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Interesting stuff, this. Wikipedia has an entire page devoted to the subject:
https://goo.gl/bdDJxn
There are several examples there and although I would tweak a couple of points (I'd widen Penn Jillette's "human life" to "sentient life," for example)
I am just wondering as to your definition of "sentient life" ?
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I am just wondering as to your definition of "sentient life" ?
Living things that know it.
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Thou shalt treat others with the respect they deserve!
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Thou shalt treat others with the respect they deserve!
I'd disagree massively. We ought to respect others whether they deserve that respect or not.
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Thou shalt treat others with the respect they deserve!
Too wishy washy. How do we know what respect someone deserves? Many 'respected' people turn out to be pedophiles and murderers. Many humble and honorable people do not get the respect they deserve from some quarters on here (Mother Theresa & Gandhi for example).
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Too wishy washy. How do we know what respect someone deserves? Many 'respected' people turn out to be pedophiles and murderers. Many humble and honorable people do not get the respect they deserve from some quarters on here (Mother Theresa & Gandhi for example).
Perhaps some people have different ideas to you as to exactly how humble and honourable the aforementioned individuals were and how much respect they deserve?
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Perhaps some people have different ideas to you as to exactly how humble and honourable the aforementioned individuals were and how much respect they deserve?
Exactly my point!
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I'd disagree massively. We ought to respect others whether they deserve that respect or not.
How silly, would you have respected Hitler? ::)
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How silly, would you have respected Hitler? ::)
One can respect someone like Hitler - or Mugabe, or Stalin, or Churchill - without agreeing with or regarding their actions as acceptable. One respects their humanity - and it is then for them to live up to that respect.
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One can respect someone like Hitler
I'm bloody glad my grandad didn't think like that.
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I'm bloody glad my grandad didn't think like that.
And I suspect that he probably didn't misrepresent people in the way you have here.
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And I suspect that he probably didn't misrepresent people in the way you have here.
Couldn't give two shiny ones whether he did or didn't, although I very much doubt it. He can't have had much respect for Hitler if he spent nearly six miserable years of his life trying to kill him and anybody associated with him.
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One can respect someone like Hitler - or Mugabe, or Stalin, or Churchill - without agreeing with or regarding their actions as acceptable. One respects their humanity - and it is then for them to live up to that respect.
You must be joking! How can you respect people who are evil like Hitler? :o
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We're not centaurs. We're a species of animal that concocted the term human to try to obscure that inescapable fact.
And apparently we were the only species to do that.
Do you think that ability more notable than the ability to invert one's viscera.....or to eat one's offspring when under stress?
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And apparently we were the only species to do that.
Yep, as far as we're aware so far.
Do you think that ability more notable than the ability to invert one's viscera.....or to eat one's offspring when under stress?
Not in the slightest. If I did I'd be an anthropcentric human exceptionalist, and I'm the opposite of that.
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Yep, as far as we're aware so far.
Not in the slightest. If I did I'd be an anthropcentric human exceptionalist, and I'm the opposite of that.
Ah so your ability to be non anthropocentric is superior to being anthropocentric then.......................
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Hi everyone,
Commandments are about what a person should do rather than what he should expect. Its about duties and not about rights.
Some of the commandments that could be beneficial to the individual and to society could be,...
1. Be honest and truthful.
2. Do not harm others by word or deed.
3. Maintain good health and fitness.
4. Do not waste food and other resources.
5. Do not destroy natural resources or upset the ecological balance.
6. Respect your parents and take responsibility for them in their later years.
7. Protect all children and care for their growth... physically, mentally and morally.
8. Respect family values and maintain family harmony.
9. Treat the opposite sex as equal in all respects.
10. Maintain sexual discipline and marital fidelity.
11. Learn as much as you can. Intellectual growth is as important as physical growth.
12. Always maintain emotional control and balance.
13. Respect others, their beliefs and way of life.
14. Love all life forms. Reduce meat intake and increase a vegetarian diet.
15. Do not tolerate cruelty or inhumane attitude from anyone against yourself or anyone else.
16. Do not be a slave to your animal needs and pleasure seeking. Discipline and reduce your needs & desires.
Just some off the cuff comments. Please add or delete what you feel like.
Cheers.
Sriram
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Reword number 6 ... which excludes old people who are childless, but still need taking care of in old age.
Otherwise, total agreement from me.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfbUkRvcNiI
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I should have also added...
1. Maintain utmost cleanliness and hygiene.
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Why the heck would you want silly sets of rules instead of letting people get on with their lives using their own brains?
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You must be joking! How can you respect people who are evil like Hitler? :o
It's why we have things like courts and fair trials.
I don't respect Hitler, but the laws we have in place respect his right to be heard in the same way as someone else. (So judgments are balanced)
The problem in allowing someone the respect they deserve, is its too subjective and open to interpretation.
Saddem Hussein used chemical weapons on the Kurds, he was giving them the respect he thought they deserved.
Hitler dished out the holocaust to the Jews because he thought that was the respect they deserved.
It's all subjective.
We all have the ability to be prejudiced in some way, even if we are not aware of it.
Having courts in place and putting people on trial is supposed to take out some of the subjectiveness.
Therefore putting Hitler on trial or any of the Nazi war criminals was a way of respecting their humanity and rights.
Allowing people the respect you think they deserve, is to reminiscent of what Hitler, Saddam Hussein and quite a few others have already done.
I'm with Hope on this one.
Unless you want to avoid becoming a Hitler in your own right, making subjective guesses about who deserves what respect, its best avoided.
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13. Respect others, their beliefs and way of life.
Why should I respect the beliefs of those who clearly set out to kill other people?
Be it individually or en masse.
This makes no sense.
I do not respect the beliefs of Donald Trump. And no matter what you post I am not going to start.
I might respect their right to hold different beliefs - but that is a different proposition altogether.
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Wot trent sed.
Respect for the right to hold, drop old, adopt new beliefs - that's a given.
Respect for beliefs that I think are inimical to health, happiness and flourishing of life - cancel my subscription.
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It depends by what you mean by taking care of, where parents are concerned. My sisters and I ensured our mother had the best of care homes, but no way in a million years would we have wished to care for her ourselves. I, for one, would have murdered her in five minutes, or I would have ended up in the funny farm if she had lived with us! :o
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1. Treat others as you would wish to be treated
2. Protect the weak and vunerable.
3. Be honest and fair in your dealings with others. Keep your word.
Most come out of the first one.
Keep it simple is best, I think.
I forgot the bit about looking after the planet which is best expressed by this Native American saying
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.” » Native American Proverb
Which can also be merged in with number 1, because we should treat it as we would like them ( future generations) to find and experience it.
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It depends by what you mean by taking care of, where parents are concerned. My sisters and I ensured our mother had the best of care homes, but no way in a million years would we have wished to care for her ourselves. I, for one, would have murdered her in five minutes, or I would have ended up in the funny farm if she had lived with us! :o
No wonder you are a bit of a brat even at this age. :) You never got a chance to change yourself (which is a pity....if you believe in a next birth as I do). You would have to go through similar situations all over again... till you grow.
Also, do your children feel the same way about you...by any chance?
More seriously, you must remember that all these facilities such as Old Age Homes are of very recent origin and even that only in some rich countries. We don't know how long they will last even there.
In earlier times and in most societies even today, its the children who need to personally care for their parents. This is one of the most important Commandments(even in the ancient Moses one).
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1. Treat others as you would wish to be treated
2. Protect the weak and vunerable.
3. Be honest and fair in your dealings with others. Keep your word.
Most come out of the first one.
Keep it simple is best, I think.
Jesus got it right with one. Love your neighbour as yourself.
Sadly he put it second to a superstition.
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Reword number 6 ... which excludes old people who are childless, but still need taking care of in old age.
Otherwise, total agreement from me.
Not bad. You agree with most of what I have written. So...you will appreciate the value of the Ten Commandments written 3000 years ago in a war torn, uneducated, illiterate, emotional, poor, wandering and intolerant society.
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Not bad. You agree with most of what I have written. So...you will appreciate the value of the Ten Commandments written 3000 years ago in a war torn, uneducated, illiterate, emotional, poor, wandering and intolerant society.
I prefer the Jim Jefrries 1 command.
Try not to be a c***
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No wonder you are a bit of a brat even at this age. :) You never got a chance to change yourself (which is a pity....if you believe in a next birth as I do). You would have to go through similar situations all over again... till you grow.
Also, do your children feel the same way about you...by any chance?
More seriously, you must remember that all these facilities such as Old Age Homes are of very recent origin and even that only in some rich countries. We don't know how long they will last even there.
In earlier times and in most societies even today, its the children who need to personally care for their parents. This is one of the most important Commandment (even in the ancient Moses one).
In those days and in some countries they have big families, Sriram.
In the west we only tend to have small families, who often travel away with jobs.
Also our expenses are greater, meaning it is very difficult for one partner to take time off to look after a parent full time.
If you are two married only children it's a bit much to expect someone to be responsible for 4 parents especially if some of them are divorced.
People I know ATM who feel it is their responsibility to care for parents have missed many opportunities also holding back partners job prospects, to live nearby.
Not everyone wants to do that, and not all partners are open to holding themselves back.
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Not bad. You agree with most of what I have written. So...you will appreciate the value of the Ten Commandments written 3000 years ago in a war torn, uneducated, illiterate, emotional, poor, wandering and intolerant society.
All except the silly 'love your god' one.
Most human groups come up with the same basic moral code, which is hardly surprising in a social species.
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Jesus got it right with one. Love your neighbour as yourself.
Sadly he put it second to a superstition.
Yes, I like that one.
Most thinkers got brought up in one superstition or another ;)
Anyway I thought Jesus made that the greatest one, I suspect it's later the rest of it got tagged on.
;)
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In those days and in some countries they have big families, Sriram.
In the west we only tend to have small families, who often travel away with jobs.
Also our expenses are greater, meaning it is very difficult for one partner to take time off to look after a parent full time.
If you are two married only children it's a bit much to expect someone to be responsible for 4 parents especially if some of them are divorced.
People I know ATM who feel it is their responsibility to care for parents have missed many opportunities also holding back partners job prospects, to live nearby.
Not everyone wants to do that, and not all partners are open to holding themselves back.
Which is why caring adequately for the old should be financed by the state, and shared among all of us by taxes.
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All except the silly 'love your god' one.
Most human groups come up with the same basic moral code, which is hardly surprising in a social species.
It depends on what God means to the individual.
If God encompasses a range of values and behaviours, such as loving your neighbour as yourself, being honest, and protecting the weak and vunerable, then loving noble things isn't so silly really.
It's about loving what's good, IMO.
God can mean = essence of goodness
:)
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It depends on what God means to the individual.
If God encompasses a range of values and behaviours, such as loving your neighbour as yourself, being honest, and protecting the weak and vunerable, then loving noble things isn't so silly really.
It's about loving what's good, IMO.
God can mean = essence of goodness
:)
I was referring to the usually accepted meaning of god, the "supernatural" one. That is nothing more than a superstition.
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Loving God should never be a commandment.
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Why the heck would you want silly sets of rules instead of letting people get on with their lives using their own brains?
This.
If we really need one at all I'll go with BeRat's.
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Loving God should never be a commandment.
Not even if it represents everything that is good honest and honourable?
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Why the heck would you want silly sets of rules instead of letting people get on with their lives using their own brains?
Because we need rules to protect the weak and vunerable in society, it's why you have laws.
The alternative is anarchy, which is fine for the bullies of this world.
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1. Never talk about Fight Club
2. Don't get caught
3. Never have a rule 3
4. Never castle through check
5. A player is in an offside position if he is in the opposing team's half of the field and is also nearer to his opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent. A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is touched or played by a team mate is only committing an offside offence if, in the opinion of the referee, he becomes actively involved in play by: Interfering with play ("playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a team-mate"); interfering with an opponent ("preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or challenging an opponent for the ball") gaining an advantage by being in an offside position ("playing a ball that rebounds or is deflected to him off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent having been in an offside position; or that rebounds, is deflected or is played to him from a deliberate save by an opponent having been in an offside position)
6. Don't let the bastards grind you down.
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Not even if it represents everything that is good honest and honourable?
No.
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Because we need rules to protect the weak and vunerable in society, it's why you have laws.
The alternative is anarchy, which is fine for the bullies of this world.
Who said anything about doing away with laws?
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Loving God should never be a commandment.
It's a literal impossibility more than anything else, I'd have thought. Real love isn't commandable. A semblance or pretence of it is, but not the real thing.
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It's a literal impossibility more than anything else, I'd have thought. Real love isn't commandable. A semblance or pretence of it is, but not the real thing.
Exactly. And even if love were commandable, forcing it is despicable.
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It's a literal impossibility more than anything else, I'd have thought. Real love isn't commandable. A semblance or pretence of it is, but not the real thing.
'Love' in this instance means 'respect'.....I think. That is the Commandment that gives all the other Commandments the much needed authority. Otherwise, why would anyone bother? Would anyone obey... if the UN issues guidelines on these Commandments? I don't think so!
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'Love' in this instance means 'respect'.....I think. That is the Commandment that gives all the other Commandments the much needed authority. Otherwise, why would anyone bother? Would anyone obey... if the UN issues guidelines on these Commandments? I don't think so!
The point still applies. With sufficiently unpleasant penalties for not showing it you can compel an impersonation of respect, but not actual respect. Tyrants and dictators tend to work this way.
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The point still applies. With sufficiently unpleasant penalties for not showing it you can compel an impersonation of respect, but not actual respect. Tyrants and dictators tend to work this way.
It doesn't matter. Obedience of the laws and maintaining social order are important. If that happened...it serves the purpose.
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It doesn't matter. Obedience of the laws and maintaining social order are important. If that happened...it serves the purpose.
But your OP included the lines:
One point I want to highlight is that the Commandments should not be merely for maintaining social order. That is not enough. The Commandments should also enable people to develop themselves as individuals, help them become more civilized and evolve mentally and intellectually beyond our present condition.
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Yes...so how does that change anything? Those who can have genuine respect will grow anyway. Others may obey due to fear...but that will still control their base instincts and thereby help society. It will also help them to grow the way children obey due to fear....but in later years realize the reason for the rules. Either way obeying the Laws is important.
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Yes...so how does that change anything? Those who can have genuine respect will grow anyway. Others may obey due to fear...but that will still control their base instincts and thereby help society. It will also help them to grow the way children obey due to fear....but in later years realize the reason for the rules. Either way obeying the Laws is important.
I appear not to regard keeping people in line by fear as a good thing as you do, or am as hung up on a legalistic system of rules to be obeyed.
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I appear not to regard keeping people in line by fear as a good thing as you do, or am as hung up on a legalistic system of rules to be obeyed.
How do you think the present Police and legal system maintain order....through heartfelt respect for discipline??!! LOL!
For most people its always fear that elicits obedience and discipline. Very few people would be able to maintain order and discipline on their own.
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I appear not to regard keeping people in line by fear as a good thing as you do, or am as hung up on a legalistic system of rules to be obeyed.
At the end of the day, to protect the weak and vunerable, I am not adverse to the use of a bit of fear and force.
If, as has happened before , a gunman opens fire on a school of children or where the public are in danger, I think you have to shoot him or make him fear the consequences of his actions.
If fear deters anyone from harming people, I'm all for it.
Within that narrow band, fear is a useful tool.
Half our problems stem from the fact our criminals have no fear of consequences.
My priority would be protecting the innocent, not about worrying about making them ( criminals) scared.
If it was down to me, a proportion of our society would be very scared!
>:(
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Yes...so how does that change anything? Those who can have genuine respect will grow anyway. Others may obey due to fear...but that will still control their base instincts and thereby help society. It will also help them to grow the way children obey due to fear....but in later years realize the reason for the rules. Either way obeying the Laws is important.
Actually this is rather terrifying. The absolute last thing any parent should want is for their child to obey through fear. I know someone who thought this was this ok because it was how they were taught to think by their father; the pain this has caused others is horrendous and it didn't keep them on the straight and narrow anyway.
If you take that into wider society then you have taught people that fear rules and it is how to get what you want. It is a society where might is right; yes, the mighty may decide to protect the vulnerable but equally they may decide that the vulnerable doesn't need to include the different. And who or what will be considered vulnerable and who the danger? Ultimately a society controlled by fear makes each and every one of its members vulnerable.
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Actually this is rather terrifying. The absolute last thing any parent should want is for their child to obey through fear. I know someone who thought this was this ok because it was how they were taught to think by their father; the pain this has caused others is horrendous and it didn't keep them on the straight and narrow anyway.
If you take that into wider society then you have taught people that fear rules and it is how to get what you want. It is a society where might is right; yes, the mighty may decide to protect the vulnerable but equally they may decide that the vulnerable doesn't need to include the different. And who or what will be considered vulnerable and who the danger? Ultimately a society controlled by fear makes each and every one of its members vulnerable.
And I thought all this was just common sense!!! ::)
I don't think you realize how many laws & social mores YOU would break but for fear of the police and social disapproval. Think about it!
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And I thought all this was just common sense!!! ::)
I don't think you realize how many laws & social mores YOU would break but for fear of the police and social disapproval. Think about it!
Sriram, by now you should know that I of all people really don't give a shit about social disapproval. Otherwise there are some laws I comply with so I don't get fined - I prefer to spend my money on wine and books rather than give it to the government. Aside from that as I have no urge to murder, assault, rob, steal, peddle stolen goods or crash my speeding Yeti the state really doesn't need to frighten me over those.
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Unless you are engaged in active criminality and realise you are running the risk of severe-ish penalties I don't think fear comes into it.
I suspect that most people simply consent to be regulated regarding their routine (non-criminal) activities even if they don't always agree with the regulations or stick to them rigidly, since they recognise that some form of regulation is useful and practical even if not perfect, such as those involving traffic.
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Funny thing is, looking back, the teacher that could always bring his class into order, who no one gave cheek to, was actually the one we all feared a little bit.
Not that he ever did anything much to give us that sense of fear, just his commanding presence.
If he was patrolling the school corridors and you were skiving, he was the one you hid from, and yes feared
But he was also the one you respected.
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Why on earth would anyone admire or respect someone who makes them frightened? Control through fear is abusive and it has no place in education as plenty of children will have to endure control through fear at home.
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Why on earth would anyone admire or respect someone who makes them frightened? Control through fear is abusive and it has no place in education as plenty of children will have to endure control through fear at home.
Its not abusive, he never abused anyone.
Its called leadership.
Its about children not being willing to call him out.
A lost art :(
He had been in the army so I guess he learned to lead and command respect there.
I suppose you could call it " an air of authority".
He set boundaries, every child knew exactly where they stood. He was fair and everyone knew that.
But that little bit of fear/uncertainty was there.
Never saw him hit or abuse any child.
It was easy to spot the teachers who didn't generate a bit of fear, they were the ones getting kicked in the nuts and their classes were like riots.
Did you not have teachers with authority who you were slightly scared of? Whose classes didn't degenerate into chaos ?
Who you thought, " well maybe I better actually do the homework for" instead of thinking "sod it"?
Even when my two boys were at school there were teachers they respected and feared a bit.
And ones they couldn't give a monkeys about.
That little bit of fear and uncertainty, plays a part.
Children don't respect an adult they can walk all over, and try it on with student teachers because they think them easy prey.
It's not abuse, its authority.
It's a quality a person either has or not, you can tell quite quickly if you meet someone like that.
They make good leaders and people happily follow them.
They have a natural authority without being irritating, it's a skill.
No other posters had teachers like that?
🌹
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Leading through fear? Give me a break.
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Leading through fear? Give me a break.
Strays uncomfortably close to slogans like "Work makes free" for my liking ...
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Strays uncomfortably close to slogans like "Work makes free" for my liking ...
And that's straying uncomfortably close to Godwin ;)
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And that's straying uncomfortably close to Godwin ;)
I'll cope :P
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Hi everyone,
If anyone here thinks that they are law abiding not because of fear of the law but from an innate sense of discipline or some thing like that....they are fooling themselves.
Of course, it is possible that a certain type of upbringing and culture over the years could have made discipline and orderliness a habit in many people, such that they don't even realize anymore that they are following social and legal dictates. It is possible that they therefore consider themselves as somehow 'naturally law abiding'. :D
If the entire police and legal system disappeared and children were born and brought up in an environment without fear of the law.....only then will people realize how important fear is in instilling a sense of discipline. There will be anarchy.
Let us not underestimate the power of fear in maintaining social order.
Cheers.
Sriram
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Let us not underestimate the power of fear in maintaining social order.
Yes I believe this was one of the prime motivators in the former USSR.
And of course nowadays such humane groups as IS are using it too.
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To be fair we do keep hearing how much more orderly Iraq was under Saddam Hussein.
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Hi everyone,
If anyone here thinks that they are law abiding not because of fear of the law but from an innate sense of discipline or some thing like that....they are fooling themselves.
Of course, it is possible that a certain type of upbringing and culture over the years could have made discipline and orderliness a habit in many people, such that they don't even realize anymore that they are following social and legal dictates. It is possible that they therefore consider themselves as somehow 'naturally law abiding'. :D
If the entire police and legal system disappeared and children were born and brought up in an environment without fear of the law.....only then will people realize how important fear is in instilling a sense of discipline. There will be anarchy.
Let us not underestimate the power of fear in maintaining social order.
Cheers.
Sriram
They won't get it Sriram.
It's part of the reason we have an issue in the uk, people no longer fear what other people think, because they don't respect other people.
Fear can take lots of forms.
Fear of letting down someone you respect.
Fear of being shown up in front of ones peers.
Unless children are taught that there are unpleasant consequences to an action like stealing, they won't find a reason not to do it in future.
Unfortunately for some, any reprimand is a form of abuse, even telling your child off or making it take back the thing it has stolen back with an apology, is abuse.
They even see that as abuse and say you are being cruel by making the child do it, shaming them,and take it back.
Shaming has also become abuse now.
Absolute rubbish, IMO.
Teachers can't even defend themselves from children now, for fears of being labelled abusive.
Sadly it's the ones that scream abuse, in a passive/aggressive way that are actually the abusers.
They are causing young people untold harm by not giving them boundaries.
Did you know that passive/aggressive attacks of shouting abuse can be used as a manipulative weapon?
It can.
I've noticed it a few times.
I suspect it is used by people who are afraid that they are potential doormats/victims, so they bully others before it can happen.
Anyway what's sad in all this, children are not being set boundaries.
But I actually agree Sriram, I do think you have to respect the values and you are right, when I used the term love a lot of that love involved respect.
Without respect, there is no love.
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Anyway what's sad in all this, children are not being set boundaries.
But I actually agree Sriram, I do think you have to respect the values and you are right, when I used the term love a lot of that love involved respect.
Without respect, there is no love.
You can set boundaries without invoking fear.
So to respect values you have to make people fearful?
And then they will feel the love?
Bizarre argument.
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You can set boundaries without invoking fear.
So to respect values you have to make people fearful?
And then they will feel the love?
Bizarre argument.
There are many different types of fear.
One is the fear of friends and family finding out about something we have done wrong, and their disappointment in us.
That's also a fear.
If you take away accountability, and all fear and reasons for not doing something, and the stakes are high enough, then quite a lot of people will go for it.
For example if someone could make £5 million by smuggling in drugs and you took away the fear altogether ( of prison,people finding out, loss of face )then a hell of a lot more people would do it, than already do it.
Therefore the only way to deter someone, is to ensure the consqenses are enough to make them fear it.
It doesn't work on everyone, because if the stakes are high enough you will always get some chancers, but it makes the majority think twice.
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To be fair we do keep hearing how much more orderly Iraq was under Saddam Hussein.
Yes well maybe that's better than just smugly thinking we did them a favour.
Here is one Iraqi opinion.
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-life-in-iraq-was-like-under-saddam-hussein-2014-7?IR=T
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India is a good example. The caste system maintains good order in society even though it is illegal! Everyone knows their place. Social norms ensure that there is no corruption, exploitation or other anti-social activity.
Women are modest and refrain from baring themselves in public thus there is no risk of sexual molestation or rape, even kissing is strongly discouraged. In some cities there are even gangs of the devout roaming around making sure everyone is well behaved. Homosexuality is unmentionable, so doesn't exist. All children are devoted to their studies and never fail in their exams. All old people are well taken care of, so old women don't have to scrounge a living by working as labourers on building sites!
And so on... the wonderful benefits of fear and social disapproval :(
Maybe we should have more fear here, to make sure teenage girls are kept safe off the streets and so on?
Look ...
Idealistic sets of rules which can be interpreted at whim and used to force people to conform to the will of charismatic leaders are no way to run society. What is needed are democratically agreed laws that are enforced fairly and transparently by accountable police and judicial systems
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Sriram, by now you should know that I of all people really don't give a shit about social disapproval. Otherwise there are some laws I comply with so I don't get fined - I prefer to spend my money on wine and books rather than give it to the government. Aside from that as I have no urge to murder, assault, rob, steal, peddle stolen goods or crash my speeding Yeti the state really doesn't need to frighten me over those.
Why on earth would you assume Sriram should and would know this about you?
You actually show in this post that you actually care very much, it comes across as faintly outraged that Sriram didn't know this about you.
But why would he?
He's not psychic.
???
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I don't respect anybody that I fear. People who command respect through fear are bullies. Makes no difference if they are in the side of what you consider to be the good guys or not.
I had a huge amount of respect for some of my teachers at school. The ones who were good at their job, knew how to capture a class' imagination, show empathy and respect for their pupils.
Fear and love do not belong together.
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Why on earth would you assume Sriram should and would know this about you?
You actually show in this post that you actually care very much, it comes across as faintly outraged that Sriram didn't know this about you.
But why would he?
He's not psychic.
???
No, that's what you want to see. I'm assuming everyone on this forum isn't a murderer or mugs old ladies and I think Sriram does the same, not just for me but for everybody else.
Don't stray into attacking the poster not the post, Rose.
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Unless you are engaged in active criminality and realise you are running the risk of severe-ish penalties I don't think fear comes into it.
I suspect that most people simply consent to be regulated regarding their routine (non-criminal) activities even if they don't always agree with the regulations or stick to them rigidly, since they recognise that some form of regulation is useful and practical even if not perfect, such as those involving traffic.
Yes, your post seems the most measured response. But I think fear does come into it.
Different sorts of fear.
I think we are conditioned from birth with a lot of it, some people more than others.
It's like with driving, we all stick to most of the rules of the road,most of the time.
However drink/driving is something they have used fear over.
Think of the awful adverts of car crashes and peoples death and the drunken drivers responsibility..............
That's making us afraid, that if we drink and drive, we will cause that.
It's still fear, and those adverts were horrible.
The other one is the mobile where the person at home talking to the driver suddenly gets cut off because the driver has had a serious accident, another advert where fear is used.
That one plays on the fear of us being instrumental in causing the death of someone we love.
I find that one harrowing.
That's two ways the law puts fear into us, to obey the law.
There are lots more.
Can you see?
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I don't respect anybody that I fear. People who command respect through fear are bullies. Makes no difference if they are in the side of what you consider to be the good guys or not.
I had a huge amount of respect for some of my teachers at school. The ones who were good at their job, knew how to capture a class' imagination, show empathy and respect for their pupils.
Fear and love do not belong together.
You are getting too much into semantics. Fear can obviously be taken to extremes like everything else. But fear is what normally establishes order.
Fear is what makes a toddler drink his milk. Fear is what makes a 5 year old go to bed on time. Fear is what makes a teenager avoid drinking and driving. Fear is what makes a boy avoid forcing himself on his girlfriend. Fear is what makes people drive carefully. Fear is what makes people pay their taxes.
Fear doesn't mean terror... for God's sake! Get real!
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No, don't need a state sponsored advert to make me frightened of killing someone because I'm pissed behind the wheel. I have a ... oh what's the word... oh yes, a conscience for that.
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India is a good example. The caste system maintains good order in society even though it is illegal! Everyone knows their place. Social norms ensure that there is no corruption, exploitation or other anti-social activity.
Women are modest and refrain from baring themselves in public thus there is no risk of sexual molestation or rape, even kissing is strongly discouraged. In some cities there are even gangs of the devout roaming around making sure everyone is well behaved. Homosexuality is unmentionable, so doesn't exist. All children are devoted to their studies and never fail in their exams. All old people are well taken care of, so old women don't have to scrounge a living by working as labourers on building sites!
And so on... the wonderful benefits of fear and social disapproval :(
Maybe we should have more fear here, to make sure teenage girls are kept safe off the streets and so on?
Look ...
Idealistic sets of rules which can be interpreted at whim and used to force people to conform to the will of charismatic leaders are no way to run society. What is needed are democratically agreed laws that are enforced fairly and transparently by accountable police and judicial systems
Nice post, Uday.
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I don't respect anybody that I fear. People who command respect through fear are bullies. Makes no difference if they are in the side of what you consider to be the good guys or not.
I had a huge amount of respect for some of my teachers at school. The ones who were good at their job, knew how to capture a class' imagination, show empathy and respect for their pupils.
Fear and love do not belong together.
I wouldn't agree.
I remember bringing my other half home and making him something on toast, I was so nervous I dropped it on the floor. ( this was when we first got together)
Then I tried to cook him a special meal and was so uptight I burnt the flipping chicken to a crisp.
I couldn't sleep, or eat.
I was so self concious and wanted to impress, I even managed to accidentally spray a can of beer all over him. ( must have shook it by mistake)
Until I was married my husband thought I couldn't cook, I could, but was so nervous when he was about, I was a disaster.
It was a sort of fear, that early love.
It's the sort of fear that makes you look like a total dipstick :(
None of it was his fault.
It wasn't something he did.
I'm not alone, I have friends who have related their tales of woe about visiting potential inlaws for the first time, one unfortunate even fell downstairs.
:)
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Fear is what makes a toddler drink his milk.
Here in Britain we call it hunger.
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...
Fear is what makes a toddler drink his milk. Fear is what makes a 5 year old go to bed on time. Fear is what makes a teenager avoid drinking and driving. Fear is what makes a boy avoid forcing himself on his girlfriend. Fear is what makes people drive carefully. Fear is what makes people pay their taxes.
...
Really? ... I don't know what planet you are living on Sriram.
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No, don't need a state sponsored advert to make me frightened of killing someone because I'm pissed behind the wheel. I have a ... oh what's the word... oh yes, a conscience for that.
You missed the point!
The advert is using fear to get its message across.
It plays on your conscience to do so.
Once it was socially acceptable to drink and drive, people still had consciences.
It just didn't occur to them it was a problem.
seat belts is another one that didn't occur to people until the state used adverts to prick their conscience.
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Truly amazing......but you people seem to be frightened of being frightened!! You are in denial! LOL!
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Truly amazing......but you people seem to be frightened of being frightened!! You are in denial! LOL!
I'm amazed some of them can't see the manipulation of their minds by media and adverts.
Especially when done so obviously with mobiles etc. It's not exactly subliminal.
They are steered into what ought to prick their concious and they think they got there on their own.
:o
Amazing!
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Sriram this is the advert I mean
http://youtu.be/3iqCcMDByLA
Most definately uses fear to enforce the law. What say you?
It scares me just looking at it, harrowing.
Rhiannon
That's using fear to control your behaviour.
It doesn't matter how nicely you wrap it, convince yourself you would have got there on your own.
Would you change a cd? Drink? Eat? Look at a map? While driving?
It's fear....... They just haven't got round to the others yet!
Psychology, the psychology of fear and controlling behaviour in the population.
It works!
Especially when they are in denial ::)
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You missed the point!
The advert is using fear to get its message across.
It plays on your conscience to do so.
Once it was socially acceptable to drink and drive, people still had consciences.
It just didn't occur to them it was a problem.
seat belts is another one that didn't occur to people until the state used adverts to prick their conscience.
Right. So without these adverts we'd all drink drive and not wear seat belts. We are clearly a nation of ignorant arseholes who don't have the intelligence to progress from the 1960s.
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sriram this is the advert I mean
http://youtu.be/3iqCcMDByLA
Most definately uses fear to enforce the law. What say you?
It scares me just looking at it, harrowing.
Rhiannon
That's using fear to control your behaviour.
It doesn't matter how nicely you wrap it, convince yourself you would have got there on your own.
Would you change a cd? Drink? Eat? Look at a map? While driving?
It's fear....... They just haven't got round to the others yet!
Rose,
That's you talking bullshit.
I know I can't control my car properly if I'm farting about with music or sweets. So I don't do it. End of.
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I wouldn't agree.
I remember bringing my other half home and making him something on toast, I was so nervous I dropped it on the floor. ( this was when we first got together)
Then I tried to cook him a special meal and was so uptight I burnt the flipping chicken to a crisp.
I couldn't sleep, or eat.
I was so self concious and wanted to impress, I even managed to accidentally spray a can of beer all over him. ( must have shook it by mistake)
Until I was married my husband thought I couldn't cook, I could, but was so nervous when he was about, I was a disaster.
It was a sort of fear, that early love.
It's the sort of fear that makes you look like a total dipstick :(
None of it was his fault.
It wasn't something he did.
I'm not alone, I have friends who have related their tales of woe about visiting potential inlaws for the first time, one unfortunate even fell downstairs.
:)
I shall refrain from saying what's going through my mind right now. :-X
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I bet it's the same as I was thinking though ... :-X
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Right. So without these adverts we'd all drink drive and not wear seat belts. We are clearly a nation of ignorant arseholes who don't have the intelligence to progress from the 1960s.
Probably.
We still change CDs eat drink I've even seen someone apply lipstick while driving.
The government uses adverts to push us in the direction it wants us to go, for our own safety maybe.
But if the government hadn't brought up the topic and insisted we wear seat belts, we still wouldn't have had them now.
To do this, it used a fair amount of fear to get its message across.
Same with mobile phones.
Other countries are still using them while driving.
An American in some states doesn't have to wear one
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_legislation_in_the_United_States
Does that make them all ignorant arseholes who don't have the intelligence to progress from the 1960s?
Some places are more strict than others about drink driving as well.
It doesn't change the fact that these laws have been reinforced by adverts creating fear to control our actions.
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I shall refrain from saying what's going through my mind right now. :-X
Probably just as well, because I think you see everything as a form of abuse.
You haven't fallen in love with someone and felt how nervous that feeling can be?
Initially anyway, until it deepens.
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I bet it's the same as I was thinking though ... :-X
Hopefully not.
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Rose,
That's you talking bullshit.
I know I can't control my car properly if I'm farting about with music or sweets. So I don't do it. End of.
You can't see the play on fear in the mobile advert?
Have another look at it?
Seriously?
You can call it bullshit all you like, but the fear is there.
For some reason, I think it scares you, to admit you see it.
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Probably just as well, because I think you see everything as a form of abuse.
You haven't fallen in love with someone and felt how nervous that feeling can be?
Initially anyway, until it deepens.
You really are a piece of work.
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Looking back ... I can see she lives in fear of vegetarians ... so that might explain it!
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The trouble is no one else will now be prepared to look at the mobile advert and post if they thought there was an element of fear in it, for fear of the usual bullying, that goes on when certain members with their politically correct ideas don't get agreed with.
Never mind I know some people do see it , cos they let me know :)
I'll take some advice and bow out now ;)
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You are so frightened of thinking about lives that might take you out of your bubble that it makes you a bully, Rose.
Imagine this...hearing the key of the person who says he loves you in your own front door after a night in the pub and it scares the shit out of you...dreading what's coming..fear and love go together? Really?
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You are so frightened of thinking about lives that might take you out of your bubble that it makes you a bully, Rose.
Imagine this...hearing the key of the person who says he loves you in your own front door after a night in the pub and it scares the shit out of you...dreading what's coming..fear and love go together? Really?
It's not me that's being the bully here.
I post my own experiences of first love, you basically disrespect and trash it. Because you can't understand it or what you do understand is twisted.
You always go jumping in to cases of domestic abuse or something else like that, it's you that's the bully Rhiannon, because you can't bear someone else to have a different experience to yourself.
It's really sad that you have to twist someone else's wonderful experience of first love into something about something nasty.
I'm sorry you don't understand what I was expressing, and the fact I don't see it in the same way you do.
Do you normally go through life trashing things for other people when they describe their own feelings?
Sometimes when people fall in love they are almost afraid to talk to each other.
Just because it isn't something you felt, doesn't mean you should trash it and drag it in the gutter for everyone else.
I'm sure a number of people have felt those butterflies when you fall in love, most people would understand. It is a kind of fear.
But not you.
You have to make it something really nasty.
Says a lot about you.
If you don't mind, I'll back off now because you obviously are intent on your horror stories..(... Imagine this.....)
I don't want my relationships brought down to your level.
Subject closed!
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Like I said. Piece of work.
It's because your 'first love' wasn't fear based -social anxiety based, yes - that it wasn't abusive. But you are too blinkered and ignorant to think anything else other than that I was 'trashing' your story.
Funny how you can watch people dying in a tv ad yet you can't bring yourself to imagine the reality of domestic violence.
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Like I said. Piece of work.
It's because your 'first love' wasn't fear based -social anxiety based, yes - that it wasn't abusive. But you are too blinkered and ignorant to think anything else other than that I was 'trashing' your story.
Funny how you can watch people dying in a tv ad yet you can't bring yourself to imagine the reality of domestic violence.
I don't need to imagine the reality of domestic violence.
It isn't me that's ignorant, I'm not accusing people of living in bubbles and degrading their first love experience and comparing it to domestic violence.
I wasn't discussing domestic violence until you brought it up( I wonder why, it was irrelevant !)
If you have finished using the topic of domestic violence to bully and victimise me now, perhaps we can move on.
You have no idea what things I have come across in my life, and I have no intention of sharing with you thanks.
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Nowhere did I compare your experience to dv. My post (6.48) made it clear that it wasn't and it was you that said I saw abuse in all situations (your post made at 4.49) What I didn't say but should have is that in describing social anxiety as fear you were wrong, but more importantly denigrating those situations where love and fear really are mixed up.
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Hi everyone,
Fear is not a bad word. It is a very important and natural emotion that serves to motivate us (albeit perceived as negative) in certain directions. Fear is a natural means of control and caution. Fear is what often helps organisms to survive. Fear of the law, social disapproval and even sometimes the displeasure of others..... lends caution and thoughtfulness to our actions.
Fear does not mean terror or horror. And fear is not necessarily indicative of something wrong or abnormal or criminal. Fear and respect often go hand in hand.
People here seem to be averse to fear as a natural emotion. I can understand why.
The need to be self willed, aversion to fear and discipline are all part of the adolescent stage of growth. They go hand in hand with skepticism, cynicism and rebellion. All part of the same second stage mindset. This also shows itself as anti religion because religion is about controls and discipline (individual and social). So..the fact that many people here show such aversion to fear is not unexpected.
But this does not mean all these persons are themselves free of fear or that their day to day behavior is entirely self willed and born of some innate wisdom and goodness. They will be as much governed by fear as anyone else...just that they don't want to admit it because of their adolescent sense of pride and self image. They like to perceive their behavior as their own chosen way of life rather than as forced by social controls. This is just being in denial of a natural emotion and nothing more.
Just some thoughts.
Cheers.
Sriram
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There is a difference between feeling fear and imposing fear onto someone or something else.
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India is a good example. The caste system maintains good order in society even though it is illegal! Everyone knows their place. Social norms ensure that there is no corruption, exploitation or other anti-social activity.
Women are modest and refrain from baring themselves in public thus there is no risk of sexual molestation or rape, even kissing is strongly discouraged. In some cities there are even gangs of the devout roaming around making sure everyone is well behaved. Homosexuality is unmentionable, so doesn't exist. All children are devoted to their studies and never fail in their exams. All old people are well taken care of, so old women don't have to scrounge a living by working as labourers on building sites!
And so on... the wonderful benefits of fear and social disapproval :(
Maybe we should have more fear here, to make sure teenage girls are kept safe off the streets and so on?
Look ...
Idealistic sets of rules which can be interpreted at whim and used to force people to conform to the will of charismatic leaders are no way to run society. What is needed are democratically agreed laws that are enforced fairly and transparently by accountable police and judicial systems
Uday,
LOL! Your attitude in fact shows a fear of being identified with India. You try to distance yourself every opportunity you can....however irrelevant to the subject of the thread.
It is a pre-independence mindset wherein some Indians preferred to identify and align themselves with the British masters and not with India and Indians.
Typically they chose to think and live like Britishers and mocked at everything Indian (sometimes living in Britain and sometimes living in India itself). A nice attitude....I think not!
Most Indians don't have any quarrel with Britishers but we do loathe such 'Britishers' as yourself. No offence!
Well....India is now doing very well, no thanks to people like you....who can never be true Indians or true Britishers or true anything else for that matter. ::)
Cheers.
Sriram
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lol, Sriram, now trying to intimidate me? To what end ...?
As a Hindu you should study your own religion to understand how fears are born out of superstition and ignorance.
http://www.gitananda.org/fearlessness/index.php
"There is built-in fear in sexual and other enjoyments.
There is fear of downfall in taking pride in one's family name and fame.
There is fear of King's or Government's taking away our accumulated (stolen) wealth.
There is fear of infamy in seeking honor in the society.
There is fear of enemies in our pride of strength whether individual or national.
There is fear of loosing beauty due to approaching old-age.
There is fear of others outsmarting us by logic and arguments, if we think of ourselves as experts.
There is fear of downfall if we constantly think of our virtues and merits.
There is built-in fear of death of this body, processes and any other worldly objects.
Truly, there is built-in fear in everything on this earth for human beings.
Renunciation alone is fearlessness."
Follow the example of Ashoka, renouncing violence to try and spread harmony, or the mythological heroes, who face and battle evils and monsters, following duty often at enormous cost, not cower before them, as our ancestors did before the Moslem invaders and British thieves - and, as your recent governments have, before the gangsters that drain the country of strength.
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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/hindu2/2014/09/swami-vivekananda-quotes-thoughts/
"Swami Vivekananda Quotes About Fear
Fear is death, fear is sin, fear is hell, fear is unrighteousness, and fear is wrong life. All the negative thoughts and ideas that are in the world have proceeded from this evil spirit of fear.
If there is one word that you find coming out like a bomb from the Upanishads, bursting like a bombshell upon masses of ignorance, it is the word “fearlessness.”
First, believe in the world—that there is meaning behind everything.
“Face the brutes.” That is a lesson for all life—face the terrible, face it boldly. Like the monkeys, the hardships of life fall back when we cease to flee before them.
As long as we believe ourselves to be even the least different from God, fear remains with us; but when we know ourselves to be the One, fear goes; of what can we be afraid?
Desire, ignorance, and inequality—this is the trinity of bondage.
Great work requires great and persistent effort for a long time. … Character has to be established through a thousand stumbles.
Learning and wisdom are superfluities, the surface glitter merely, but it is the heart that is the seat of all power.
This is the great lesson that we are here to learn through myriads of births and heavens and hells—that there is nothing to be asked for, desired for, beyond one’s spiritual Self (atman).
Stand as a rock; you are indestructible. You are the Self (atman), the God of the universe.
If superstition enters, the brain is gone."
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Very interesting stuff, Udayana, thank you.
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Uday,
You probably don't realize what you have written.
You have written exactly what I have said. Fear is a natural emotion and nothing to be denied. It is everywhere and in every experience. Being rid of fear is an ultimate inner condition....an innate awareness and freedom that is not ordinary.
Fear is inevitable as long as we have needs and desires. They are two sides of the same coin. If you have needs and desires of any kind....there will be a fear associated with it. It is natural.
Only if one eliminates all needs and desires can one be free from fear. That is the aim and goal of spirituality....and 'fearlessness' is one definition of Mukti or Final Liberation.
So...unless you are claiming that all of you here are Self Realized sages who have eliminated their natural needs....you cannot help feeling fear. So stop denying it!
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Sriram, I don't think that anyone here has denied that they have fears. Personally I have many - but none of them involves or requires the following or breaking of any laws reasonably arrived at.
As Rhi said:
There is a difference between feeling fear and imposing fear onto someone or something else.
All people have fears, it does not mean that you should use them to impose your desires on them or control them using social disapproval or punishment.
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Sriram, I don't think that anyone here has denied that they have fears. Personally I have many - but none of them involves or requires the following or breaking of any laws reasonably arrived at.
As Rhi said:
All people have fears, it does not mean that you should use them to impose your desires on them or control them using social disapproval or punishment.
What are you talking about? You are still thinking of Hitler and Saddam Hussain I suppose! ::)
Fear is a natural emotion and we cannot escape it. It is not some monstrous abnormality or aberration as some on here seem to think. Almost all our day to day activities will involve fear or anxiety or apprehension of some kind....which is a form of negative motivation.
One does not have to impose it. Where ever discipline or self control or adhering to someone else's wishes is called for....fear and apprehension is automatically there. Being in denial of it is ridiculous!
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What I'm talking about is your assertion that more arbitrary sets of rules and fear of punishment is what is needed to keep a well ordered and harmonious society. And I have suggested plenty of examples in your own society, where this idea is clearly not working.
How do you think the present Police and legal system maintain order....through heartfelt respect for discipline??!! LOL!
For most people its always fear that elicits obedience and discipline. Very few people would be able to maintain order and discipline on their own.
You are getting too much into semantics. Fear can obviously be taken to extremes like everything else. But fear is what normally establishes order.
Fear is what makes a toddler drink his milk. Fear is what makes a 5 year old go to bed on time. Fear is what makes a teenager avoid drinking and driving. Fear is what makes a boy avoid forcing himself on his girlfriend. Fear is what makes people drive carefully. Fear is what makes people pay their taxes.
...
It's rational and fair legal systems that keep society working, and gangsters and rapists that use blackmail and violence or threats of violence, exploiting peoples natural fears, to undermine it.
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? ? ? ? ?
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https://home.isi.org/what-role-fear-law
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Well there has been an advertisement running here for a while about getting the shingles vaccination. Let me tell you Rhi and Shaker, the ads are pretty intense and I betcha after watching those commercials many have gone and got the shot. Before that ad ran, who would have been afraid of the shingles, and known to get the shot, not a lot. I didn't, and I had no Idea that there was a shot I could get. So I went and came down with the shingles and it was all through my scalp and one side of my face and I lost the use of one eye for a couple of weeks. I can provide you a picture of my monster face. So here is the ads and they do put fear in people to go out and take the shot. Rose is quite correct, fear ads can make us think and act. I really don't know why you two fear the fear ads. Believe me if fear ads didn't work, money wouldn't be spent on making them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hny4VnIEmjM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS24xTvc-Nw
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I reject the positive spin on India's caste system.
In this weeks Economist Mag.
http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21693613-higher-castes-demanding-lower-status-make-mockery-positive-discrimination-backward-ho
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I can provide you a picture of my monster face.
No it's OK - nobody would be able to tell the difference between before and after anyway.
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No it's OK - nobody would be able to tell the difference between before and after anyway.
Oy!
That's not nice >:(
Shingles is nasty, it can cause blindness
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My sister had shingles in the early part of last year, and the sight in one of her eyes is still very dodgy! It looks as if it might be permanently impaired :(
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Doubt there is much of an issue with using shocking images or similsr methods in order to ensure people understand facts about the risks they need to make decisions on.
However this is different to raising the fear level in order to push people to choose one way or the otherlon political issues.. as we have been seeing on EU membership, responses to immigation and so on. Or even intimidation or socisl disapproval to force people to vacinate "for the common good" rather than their own, or not to vacinate for political/religious reasons.
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Looking at some of the replies in this thread I can see why some humans abandon their children and partners.
It is because they have no natural empathy and ability to love someone and understand what love really is.
Agape love is a love not earned and freely given. Whether our life partner or our children. A natural love which we nurture and we don't require telling to do. But for some it appears they think their children have to earn the love from their parent. God is our parent he created us. He created all the good things we have.
It is stupid and ignorant to think that a person cannot love God naturally when everything we have he has given us, even our earthly parents and our own children.
I suppose awkward children who rebel and go there own way cannot relate to the harm or hurt they do unto others.
Why should it be any different on this thread for adult children still doing it.
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Boundaries and fear.
We warn our children of dangers the reality of life. We teach them how and where to cross a road.
We set boundaries and sometimes they carry a fear, a fear of what can happen if they cross those boundaries.
We do not create the things to be afraid about. Roads are useful and transport necessary. Not evil of themselves but deadly if people drink drive and do not obey light systems etc.
So whilst we can try and drive perfectly there are many reasons accidents can occur.
God teaches us to fear the things that will be and those that can be now without him.
He tells us the truth of that which is and that which will be.
No threat, a warning.... we are not scaremongering when we warn our children about real dangers and neither is God.
But we can be two-faced and double standards. By saying our way as parents is because we care but not allow God the same understanding and reality.
At the end of the day is deliberate misrepresentation about of God for the ignorant selfish purpose of humans who cannot bear to admit that they believe they care more for their Children than God cares for his.