Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Theism and Atheism => Topic started by: Bubbles on March 04, 2016, 01:55:49 PM
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I saw people whose hands had been amputated, those with no legs, and others with no heads. I saw everything.
Especially seeing people rolling around and screaming in agony, with no arms, no legs. People died in very bad conditions.
It was as if we were taken over by Satan. We were taken over by Satan. When Satan is using you, you lose your mind. We were not ourselves. Beginning with me, I don't think I was normal.
You wouldn't be normal if you start butchering people for no reason. We had been attacked by the devil.
Even when I dream my body changes in a way I cannot explain. These people were my neighbours. The picture of their deaths may never leave me. Everything else I can get out of my head but that picture never leaves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/3582011.stm
People find many excuses to hurt others and to excuse themselves for having done so.
People seem to do this, whether they are religious or not.
The cause, isn't religion IMO, it's something inside people.
Political ideology, some violent aspect of a religion? It can motivate it, but people choose to join in.
Is it just greed? Jealousy?
What causes someone to go out and butcher a child?
What is it that motivates them?
:-\
So many religions do contain good things, how come they don't reach this part of us.
Humans have been nasty to each other for hundreds of thousands of years.
It's not even lack of education, because some of the worst have been very educated.
???
You would think we would have stopped by now, given how most people know this could be a much nicer world for us all, if it stopped.
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I think it is probably because empathy was fairly late in evolving, and will take quite a time to override other, more basic instincts.
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I think it is probably because empathy was fairly late in evolving, and will take quite a time to override other, more basic instincts.
According to Leakey there is evidence of periods and places of great cooperation that would put us to shame in past history.
Moral progress is an illusion...particularly when you take attitudes to animals and the natural world into account.
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I remember watching the Milgram experiment, which might give a clue. He used actors as subjects but the students didn't know this. Here is an extract from His book ...... "I set up a simple experiment at Yale University to test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist. Stark authority was pitted against the subjects' [participants'] strongest moral imperatives against hurting others, and, with the subjects' [participants'] ears ringing with the screams of the victims, authority won more often than not. The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation.
Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority."
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I remember watching the Milgram experiment, which might give a clue. He used actors as subjects but the students didn't know this. Here is an extract from His book ...... "I set up a simple experiment at Yale University to test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist. Stark authority was pitted against the subjects' [participants'] strongest moral imperatives against hurting others, and, with the subjects' [participants'] ears ringing with the screams of the victims, authority won more often than not. The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation.
Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority."
Thanks for this.
From a religionethics angle people have used the Milgram experiment to flag up the dangers of religious authority but the authority in the experiment is in fact scientific and indeed any authority can elicit the same response.
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According to Leakey there is evidence of periods and places of great cooperation that would put us to shame in past history.
No doubt! Progress is not a step at a time, it is often two steps forward and one step back.
Moral progress is an illusion...particularly when you take attitudes to animals and the natural world into account.
I don't think so. Our moral values are slowly improving, but they, too, can do so by two forward and one backward.
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No doubt! Progress is not a step at a time, it is often two steps forward and one step back.
I don't think so. Our moral values are slowly improving, but they, too, can do so by two forward and one backward.
Like you I believe there is scope for ''moral improvement''.
I do not believe in an overall improvement or that there couldn't be regress at any time in the future, the violation of planet Earth forbids it.
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Whilst there are many good and decent people of faith, it can also bring out the very worst elements of human nature. On this forum there are some decent Christians, who I have time for, even if I don't see it there way, but there are others who bring the faith into disrepute by their self-righteous, ghastly behaviour.
If god exists, why did it pick out quite a number of unpleasant people in the Bible to represent it, like Abraham, for instance?
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The dark side of human nature ? in our civilisedness, maybe we tend to forget that we are animals at base; we have been learning to be civilised for a couple of hundred thousand years, but in evolutionary timescales that is just the peel on the skin of an apple. The animal inside is still there, and emerges on occasions, like in Rwanda, or Srebrenica.
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The dark side of human nature ? in our civilisedness, maybe we tend to forget that we are animals at base; we have been learning to be civilised for a couple of hundred thousand years, but in evolutionary timescales that is just the peel on the skin of an apple. The animal inside is still there, and emerges on occasions, like in Rwanda, or Srebrenica.
Animals do not divert billions into nuclear weapon research in order to produce an H Bomb.
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The dark side of human nature ? in our civilisedness, maybe we tend to forget that we are animals at base; we have been learning to be civilised for a couple of hundred thousand years, but in evolutionary timescales that is just the peel on the skin of an apple. The animal inside is still there, and emerges on occasions, like in Rwanda, or Srebrenica.
hmmm ... that seems to slander animal life and our animal past ... no doubt there are situations in which violent animal passions control our behaviour, but genocide is definitely a deliberate, calculated, human activity - performed to demonstrate and exercise power over others.
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Most animals with territorial instincts would use weapons to completely eliminate rival groups if they could; rivalry between baboon or chimp troups is bloodthirsty and uncompromising; no taking prisoners for them. Humans are the apes with brains to make deadly weapons, that makes us so much more dangerous.
Getting along politely with the neighbours is a quite recent phenomenon for us, it only really started when we began living communally in villages at the end of the last ice age 10,000 years ago.
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Well, if the chimps were to build drones to take out entirely harmless villages on the other side of the world, then we would certainly regard them as human rather than animal.
Our (apparantly) peaceful and civilised behaviour is as much "animal" in origin as tribal hostilities and violence. For me our "human" side is the ability to think in abstractions and includes being able to detach ourselves from the destruction we actually perpetrate.
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The dark side of human nature ? in our civilisedness, maybe we tend to forget that we are animals at base; we have been learning to be civilised for a couple of hundred thousand years, but in evolutionary timescales that is just the peel on the skin of an apple. The animal inside is still there, and emerges on occasions, like in Rwanda, or Srebrenica.
We are not animals. Never were, never will be and certainly cannot use any old excuse such as being one to defend what happens in situations as Rose has made us aware about.
The evil in mans nature is what is harnessed and those who follow and condone evil are more likely to commit it.
It starts with just one seed and can lead to evil beyond that we would want to see or accept possible.
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We are not animals. Never were, never will be and certainly cannot use any old excuse such as being one to defend what happens in situations as Rose has made us aware about.
The evil in mans nature is what is harnessed and those who follow and condone evil are more likely to commit it.
It starts with just one seed and can lead to evil beyond that we would want to see or accept possible.
That is all a load of stupid and outdated rot.
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We are not animals. Never were, never will be and certainly cannot use any old excuse such as being one to defend what happens in situations as Rose has made us aware about.
Well we are, of course, at base, animals, we don't need a Phd in biology to recognise that basic fact. Understanding what we are, and where we have come from, I would have thought would be something every person would want to consider sooner or later. To understand our present, we need to know our past.
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We are not animals. Never were, never will be
Another one for FSTDT.
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That is all a load of stupid and outdated rot.
HITLER
One seed that proves my point.
And ignorance like yours which allowed it.... Point proven.
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We are not animals.. We named animals, animals... and we also were the caretakers of what God created.
Only man could believe his own stupid made up reasoning. A reasoning which excludes God.
Even those Christian Scientist do not stoop to such stupidity.
It is as stupid as evolution believes that simple forms of life spontaneously arose from non-life.
God created man in his own image he is not listed in the animals and their kinds.
Man is made in the image of God and is not an animal.
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We are not animals.. We named animals, animals... and we also were the caretakers of what God created.
Only man could believe his own stupid made up reasoning. A reasoning which excludes God.
Even those Christian Scientist do not stoop to such stupidity.
It is as stupid as evolution believes that simple forms of life spontaneously arose from non-life.
God created man in his own image he is not listed in the animals and their kinds.
Man is made in the image of God and is not an animal.
Sassy blindly asserted without the suggestion of a hint of a scintilla of any reasoning or evidence.
What a surprise...
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We are not animals.. We named animals, animals... and we also were the caretakers of what God created.
Only man could believe his own stupid made up reasoning. A reasoning which excludes God.
Even those Christian Scientist do not stoop to such stupidity.
It is as stupid as evolution believes that simple forms of life spontaneously arose from non-life.
God created man in his own image he is not listed in the animals and their kinds.
Man is made in the image of God and is not an animal.
OK, whatever ...
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We are not animals. Never were, never will be and certainly cannot use any old excuse such as being one to defend what happens in situations as Rose has made us aware about.
The evil in mans nature is what is harnessed and those who follow and condone evil are more likely to commit it.
It starts with just one seed and can lead to evil beyond that we would want to see or accept possible.
Of course we are animals. You don't half talk a load of silly nonsense! ::)
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We are not animals.. We named animals, animals... and we also were the caretakers of what God created.
Only man could believe his own stupid made up reasoning. A reasoning which excludes God.
Even those Christian Scientist do not stoop to such stupidity.
It is as stupid as evolution believes that simple forms of life spontaneously arose from non-life.
God created man in his own image he is not listed in the animals and their kinds.
Man is made in the image of God and is not an animal.
How do you know?
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How do you know?
She doesn't.
It's just the invincibly ignorant human exceptionalism that thrives in a theistic mindset.
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She doesn't.
It's just the invincibly ignorant human exceptionalism that thrives in a theistic mindset.
But to be fair not ALL theists come out with the crazy garbage which Sass does with almost every post.
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But to be fair not ALL theists come out with the crazy garbage which Sass does with almost every post.
No.
It just helps.
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We are not animals.. We named animals, animals... and we also were the caretakers of what God created.
Only man could believe his own stupid made up reasoning. A reasoning which excludes God.
Even those Christian Scientist do not stoop to such stupidity.
It is as stupid as evolution believes that simple forms of life spontaneously arose from non-life.
God created man in his own image he is not listed in the animals and their kinds.
Man is made in the image of God and is not an animal.
Apart from that last line of your post being just another one of your many assertions, that as per usual you are unable to back it up.
What's wrong with being a human animal Sass? A mammal.
ippy
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Of course we are animals. You don't half talk a load of silly nonsense! ::)
Ever seen an animal talking about the weather? Driving a car? Flying a plane?
Because animals do not do those things.
Big clue but no brains to conceive hence the stupidity of mans own nature.
He makes himself lesser because he can't cope with the fact a higher being made him and the man named all the animals.
Animals are animals and humans are humans. Only man could make himself out to be lower than an animal.
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Ever seen an animal talking about the weather? Driving a car? Flying a plane?
Yes.
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Yes.
Love this post of yours SKoS, go on, I can hardly wait for the rest of it, you must have really confused Sassy.
ippy
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http://tinyurl.com/jhq9g24
Moderator: edited with shortened URL.
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http://tinyurl.com/jhq9g24
Love it, have you ever thought how sensible it is for women to have pink cars, no self respecting bloke is going to nick it, ever.
ippy
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It's come out as one heck of a long link, wider than the page.
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It's come out as one heck of a long link, wider than the page.
Try tinyurl
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No NS, I'll let it die now I think, wasn't that funny.
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No NS, I'll let it die now I think, wasn't that funny.
Why aren't you willing to edit your post with tinyurl? How hard is it?
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That is all a load of stupid and outdated rot.
Agreed.
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Why aren't you willing to edit your post with tinyurl? How hard is it?
I was a bit embarrassed by it tbh, wished I hadn't posted something so flippant. I was going to delete had you not replied. Then I came on this morning and thought I would reduce it, however the mods have done it now, thanks.
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I was a bit embarrassed by it tbh, wished I hadn't posted something so flippant. I was going to delete had you not replied. Then I came on this morning and thought I would reduce it, however the mods have done it now, thanks.
No problem, I was being crabbit
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Let's decide this one way or another....
You have a choice between killing an animal or your closest family member.
Don't ever tell me anyone thinks that animals are really equal to humans.
Why do many animals become extinct?
It is a shame we are not honest enough to admit that humans are NOT animals.
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Let's decide this one way or another....
You have a choice between killing an animal or your closest family member.
Don't ever tell me anyone thinks that animals are really equal to humans.
Why do many animals become extinct?
It is a shame we are not honest enough to admit that humans are NOT animals.
Clearly humans are animals, that is just a matter of biological fact. We are primates with particular cognitive specialisations for language and so forth. We might well go extinct, most species do, that is in the nature of things. We like to think we are smart; we might be smart enough to survive climate change, we might be smart enough to survive nuclear war or global pandemics. We probably will not survive the next significant astronomical event though.
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Clearly humans are animals, that is just a matter of biological fact. We are primates with particular cognitive specialisations for language and so forth. We might well go extinct, most species do, that is in the nature of things. We like to think we are smart; we might be smart enough to survive climate change, we might be smart enough to survive nuclear war or global pandemics. We probably will not survive the next significant astronomical event though.
Rubbish,
There are NO biological facts that make human animals. Such is the truth we the Human made up the name for the animal kingdom and put them under one heading. Never including ourselves and giving each animal a type.
Are you really so full of pride you allow yourself to become less than you are because God is greater and gives humans a higher place.
You and I both know you would choose your closest person than an animal because we love humans differently to how we love animals. We can make that choice, they cannot.
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Rubbish,
There are NO biological facts that make human animals. Such is the truth we the Human made up the name for the animal kingdom and put them under one heading. Never including ourselves and giving each animal a type.
Are you really so full of pride you allow yourself to become less than you are because God is greater and gives humans a higher place.
You and I both know you would choose your closest person than an animal because we love humans differently to how we love animals. We can make that choice, they cannot.
Oh Sass, of course we are a species of animal, sad you can't see it!
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There are NO biological facts that make human animals.
That Sassy, is called "bearing false witness" - it makes your god all cross, so I've heard.
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There are NO biological facts that make human animals. Such is the truth we the Human made up the name for the animal kingdom and put them under one heading. Never including ourselves and giving each animal a type.
Every aspect of our biology and every aspect of our genetics is consistent with the view that we are animals of primate lineage. Consider what those two milk producing glands that human females sport are. They are what define us as mammals, whether you like it or not. So, do we look reality in the face and try to understand, and come to terms with it; or do we bury our heads in the naïve stories of less educated ancient peoples as some sort of escapist substitute ? Reality has a way of creeping up on us Sass, sooner or later, and the more you invest in fanciful belief systems, the less prepared you will be to make sense of reality when it comes up and bites you from behind ;)
You and I both know you would choose your closest person than an animal because we love humans differently to how we love animals. We can make that choice, they cannot.
That's as maybe. But we still bleed when cut. We still breathe oxygen even though it slowly kills us.
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That Sassy, is called "bearing false witness" - it makes your god all cross, so I've heard.
Says the animal about his creator...
See how stupid your answer really is...
Seems the only thing cross on here is your own inability to separate yourself from that which you are caretaker off, to that which is under the caretaker. Is it any wonder you cannot believe in your creator,
I am dealing with facts... We are not animals we gave the names to all individual species and lumped them altogether under the one title animals. The bible makes the clear distinction between man and animal.
I guess the donkeys only know how to eat their carrots because they cannot plough the fields and sow their own.
Does that make man a different type of ass?
We all see why mankind is mankind and not an animal. Believe what you want because even an animal isn't dumb enough to pretend there is no difference between animals and humans.
Humans are not animals... here endeth the first lesson. :)
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Says the animal about his creator...
See how stupid your answer really is...
Seems the only thing cross on here is your own inability to separate yourself from that which you are caretaker off, to that which is under the caretaker. Is it any wonder you cannot believe in your creator,
I am dealing with facts... We are not animals we gave the names to all individual species and lumped them altogether under the one title animals. The bible makes the clear distinction between man and animal.
I guess the donkeys only know how to eat their carrots because they cannot plough the fields and sow their own.
Does that make man a different type of ass?
We all see why mankind is mankind and not an animal. Believe what you want because even an animal isn't dumb enough to pretend there is no difference between animals and humans.
Humans are not animals... here endeth the first lesson. :)
Yoiu couldn't recognise a fact if it hit you squarely between the eyes!
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[bluster and insult]
I am dealing with facts... We are not animals ...
[more bluster and insult]
Humans are not animals... here endeth the first lesson. :)
Wrong.
http://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Homo_sapiens/classification/
http://www.learner.org/courses/essential/life/session2/closer4.html
http://www.biocab.org/Homo_sapiens_Class.html
http://anthro.palomar.edu/animal/table_humans.htm
http://eol.org/pages/327955/names?all=1
http://www.uniprot.org/taxonomy/9606
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Ever seen an animal talking about the weather? Driving a car? Flying a plane?
La Sass - I've never seen any of those but I have to say, I did once have a cat that did impersonations. No lie.
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La Sass - I've never seen any of those but I have to say, I did once have a cat that did impersonations. No lie.
Err yes, you have. All the talking about the weather, driving cars (other than driverless cars and flying planes you have seen have been done by animals.
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Yes.
Some Kind is a sophisticated Bonobo..........Nice chap but don't get too close when you meet him for the first time.
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Yoiu couldn't recognise a fact if it hit you squarely between the eyes!
I guess I am more honest than you... You have no facts in this argument and have no independent proof of what you claim.
But even a dummy would not put themselves in the same class of the animals when they are caretakers.
Nothing in comparison of life on this planet even suggests we are the same as animals.
We grow our own food and feed the animals. If we were animals we would have died out by now along with the animals.
We have been caretakers of this planet since God created it, and us. The intelligent amongst us, do not need to be educated as to why we are not animals.
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Wrong.
http://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Homo_sapiens/classification/
http://www.learner.org/courses/essential/life/session2/closer4.html
http://www.biocab.org/Homo_sapiens_Class.html
http://anthro.palomar.edu/animal/table_humans.htm
http://eol.org/pages/327955/names?all=1
http://www.uniprot.org/taxonomy/9606
There all OPINIONS but the FACTS show we are not animals.
If animals all would be dead by now. The truth is life of animals did not come from the same place as humans.
God breathed the life into human beings. A big difference. And all the above have absolutely NOTHING that has evidence or proof we are animals. See they are men too. But you claim to be animal because you don't want to admit there is a God.
But clearly we are not animals....
Just in case googled something to show we can find anything we want on the internet.
http://archive.larouchepac.com/node/31972
Truth is, and always will be, Mankind is Mankind and Animals are just Animals.
http://archive.larouchepac.com/node/31972
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La Sass - I've never seen any of those but I have to say, I did once have a cat that did impersonations. No lie.
Did they go to work or did they talk about the future with you?
I would never insult God by calling him a liar or lumping his creation together. Like saying a tree is an animal or venus flytrap.
Doesn't work.
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Sass.
Animals can and do survive in the wild without input from the human animal. In fact there is some sad irony to the fact that the human animal is causing the extinction of other animals.
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There all OPINIONS but the FACTS show we are not animals.
If animals all would be dead by now. The truth is life of animals did not come from the same place as humans.
No evidence for such a claim though, therefore this is just a fantasy belief born of psychological needs rather than epistemic truth. All the evidence suggests we share a common biological ancestry with every other living thing on this planet
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There all OPINIONS but the FACTS show we are not animals.
If animals all would be dead by now. The truth is life of animals did not come from the same place as humans.
God breathed the life into human beings. A big difference. And all the above have absolutely NOTHING that has evidence or proof we are animals. See they are men too. But you claim to be animal because you don't want to admit there is a God.
But clearly we are not animals....
Just in case googled something to show we can find anything we want on the internet.
http://archive.larouchepac.com/node/31972
Truth is, and always will be, Mankind is Mankind and Animals are just Animals.
http://archive.larouchepac.com/node/31972
Clearly to someone like yourself who lives their life according to what the Bible says and sees science as the work of man therefore inferior to the word of God as you consider it, then you won't consider man as animals. There are many intelligent people who do not see it that way however and accept that humans are part of the animal kingdom. Accusing people of ignorance isn't helpful - it is not ignorance but rather that many people do not see the bible as being what you see it to be. Trying to say things like 'if we are animals we'd all be dead by now' makes no sense since many animals exist without human support. Better just to say that the Bible distinguishes between man and animals, I believe the Bible to be totally accurate word of God, so I don't accept that humans are animals.
On a general point it is very difficult for many non-believers to understand the mind set of someone who takes the Bible as being the accurate word of God, and this tends to lead to the often pointless debates on here. I do sometimes see your point Sassy once I try to put myself in to your way of thinking, and can even see why you respond as you do on occasions too. I disagree with you and much of what you post as I have no belief in God and do not take the Bible as my guide - but I do see where you are coming from sometimes.
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I disagree with you and much of what you post as I have no belief in God and do not take the Bible as my guide - but I do see where you are coming from sometimes.
. . . and I sometimes wish she would go back there P D Q!
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Quote from: Brownie on May 24, 2016, 04:26:46 PM
La Sass - I've never seen any of those but I have to say, I did once have a cat that did impersonations. No lie.
Did they go to work or did they talk about the future with you?
I would never insult God by calling him a liar or lumping his creation together. Like saying a tree is an animal or venus flytrap.
Doesn't work.
Only just seen this. Nope, I can assure you my pets did neither of the things you ask :D.
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Quote from: Brownie on May 24, 2016, 04:26:46 PM
La Sass - I've never seen any of those but I have to say, I did once have a cat that did impersonations. No lie.
Only just seen this. Nope, I can assure you my pets did neither of the things you ask :D.
Well there you have it. Cats have more sense than to go out to work :P
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Most felines live with cat slaves to look after them.
Tbey also happen to be psychopaths who plot our death and consumption daily but who are too small to make much headway. Just saying.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/31/cat-lion-psychological-traits/74941388/
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If that's true I'd say they are perfectly capable of going out to work and earning a crust. Why should we have to keep them?
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If that's true I'd say they are perfectly capable of going out to work and earning a crust. Why should we have to keep them?
Because they don't like bread?
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Clearly to someone like yourself who lives their life according to what the Bible says and sees science as the work of man therefore inferior to the word of God as you consider it, then you won't consider man as animals. There are many intelligent people who do not see it that way however and accept that humans are part of the animal kingdom.
You are wrong on two accounts. Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with seeing ourselves not as an animal. .Nor do I see science as inferior to the word of God because Science is a lot of theory and without any proof in regards to God or the bible. In fact scientist are always correcting themselves. A lot of intelligent and Christian scientist do not accept that humans are animals.
There have always been humans and always been animals. None changing or becoming something else.
Accusing people of ignorance isn't helpful - it is not ignorance but rather that many people do not see the bible as being what you see it to be. Trying to say things like 'if we are animals we'd all be dead by now' makes no sense since many animals exist without human support. Better just to say that the Bible distinguishes between man and animals, I believe the Bible to be totally accurate word of God, so I don't accept that humans are animals.
For man to evolve there would have been a lot of mutations needed and the force required to cause them would have destroyed this planet. Man has cultivated the earth without it animals would not have lived. I know animals cannot and never have done what humans do.
Ignorance and pride makes man make the error in his thinking. What type of idiot makes himself the equal of animals. Animals are not aware of their own mortality we are.
On a general point it is very difficult for many non-believers to understand the mind set of someone who takes the Bible as being the accurate word of God, and this tends to lead to the often pointless debates on here. I do sometimes see your point Sassy once I try to put myself in to your way of thinking, and can even see why you respond as you do on occasions too. I disagree with you and much of what you post as I have no belief in God and do not take the Bible as my guide - but I do see where you are coming from sometimes.
Man hasn't produced any evidence. Without God there is absolutely no evidence as to why we exist.
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You are wrong on two accounts. Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with seeing ourselves not as an animal. .Nor do I see science as inferior to the word of God because Science is a lot of theory and without any proof in regards to God or the bible. In fact scientist are always correcting themselves. A lot of intelligent and Christian scientist do not accept that humans are animals.
There have always been humans and always been animals. None changing or becoming something else.
For man to evolve there would have been a lot of mutations needed and the force required to cause them would have destroyed this planet. Man has cultivated the earth without it animals would not have lived. I know animals cannot and never have done what humans do.
Ignorance and pride makes man make the error in his thinking. What type of idiot makes himself the equal of animals. Animals are not aware of their own mortality we are.
Man hasn't produced any evidence. Without God there is absolutely no evidence as to why we exist.
Sassy, this is probably the daftest and most juvenile rubbish you have ever posted.
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There were animals on the earth before humans. Some became extinct (some humans became extinct later on too, Neanderthals), others flourished and are still with us. They may not have been able to generate electricity, develop medicines or build bridges but they'd have survived quite well, as they did before we came along.
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There were animals on the earth before humans. Some became extinct (some humans became extinct later on too, Neanderthals), others flourished and are still with us. They may not have been able to generate electricity, develop medicines or build bridges but they'd have survived quite well, as they did before we came along.
Not just some, the vast majority of species that have ever lived have since gone extinct. Extinction is very much part of the evolutionary process in an ever changing world.
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True. When will it be our turn I wonder? (Don't answer that!!!)
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Ignorance and pride makes man make the error in his thinking. What type of idiot makes himself the equal of animals.
You've got that the wrong way round. It is a position of ignorance and pride that elevates Man above other creatures. Conversely, it shows proper humility to be accepting of Man's real place with the broader tree of life, and not as something 'special'.
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You've got that the wrong way round. It is a position of ignorance and pride that elevates Man above other creatures. Conversely, it shows proper humility to be accepting of Man's real place with the broader tree of life, and not as something 'special'.
Fancy that ........a combination of extreme reductionism with natural mystical piety.
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(((((Without God there is absolutely no evidence as to why we exist.)))))
Sass, there is no verifiable evidence god exists.
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You've got that the wrong way round. It is a position of ignorance and pride that elevates Man above other creatures. Conversely, it shows proper humility to be accepting of Man's real place with the broader tree of life, and not as something 'special'.
Fancy that ........a combination of extreme reductionism with natural mystical piety.
I liked it too Vlad, thought it was spot on actually.
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You've got that the wrong way round. It is a position of ignorance and pride that elevates Man above other creatures. Conversely, it shows proper humility to be accepting of Man's real place with the broader tree of life, and not as something 'special'.
Very good. It's hubris, (understandable in a prescientific age), which led humans to see the earth as the centre of the universe, and humans as the natural apex of life. But we have learned differently. Ironically, we have also created a new mass extinction, so poor are we at taking care of life.
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There is one fact that seems to shiow that humanity is not superior to bacteria,
we rely on bacteria in our gut to prevent us falling foul of more than a few diseases, and, as we are finding to our cost, bacteria and similar microscopic organisms can kill humans far more effectively than humans can kill these microscopic orgaisms.
The common cold anf flu viruses, in all their many varieties, have shown that they can evolve to circumvent our efforts to erdicate them, humans have shown, so far, very limited ability to evolve immunity to those micro-organisms.
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The common cold anf flu viruses, in all their many varieties, have shown that they can evolve to circumvent our efforts to erdicate them, humans have shown, so far, very limited ability to evolve immunity to those micro-organisms.
We are evolving all the time, but unfortunately the spineless cold and flu viruses aren't killing off the non-immune fast enough for it to be appreciable!
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There is one fact that seems to shiow that humanity is not superior to bacteria,
we rely on bacteria in our gut to prevent us falling foul of more than a few diseases, and, as we are finding to our cost, bacteria and similar microscopic organisms can kill humans far more effectively than humans can kill these microscopic orgaisms.
The common cold anf flu viruses, in all their many varieties, have shown that they can evolve to circumvent our efforts to erdicate them, humans have shown, so far, very limited ability to evolve immunity to those micro-organisms.
Human evolution is very slow compared to most species; and now that we have universal health care, natural selection pressures are near eliminated. Mind you there is a girl next door with a nice bum, so I guess sexual selection is still as strong as ever. Bacteria evolve far faster than us, by a factor of hundred thousand or so; viruses even faster still. Microbes are consummate evolvers.
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Human evolution is very slow compared to most species;
Although humanity is replete with people who have evolved from Hero to Zero overnight.......or as I prefer
..........from anchor to wa........
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Although humanity is replete with people who have evolved from Hero to Zero overnight.......or as I prefer
..........from anchor to wa........
Of course you prefer that version - you see the evidence of its truth every time you look in a mirror!
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If anything this thread is the perfect example of why man has not progressed. They can't get past the arguments amongst themselves long enough to examine the truth.
They attach themselves to any belief which will support their chosen belief.
Whilst truth seekers only adopt beliefs which are proven to themselves.
Not one of you are showing the intelligence you were born with. God exists and he is still the only evidence which has not been disproved. Scientist make claims and then make new claims. But never make solid claims.
Man is aware of his own mortality and animals are not. A CLEAR distinction as to why we are not animals.
But hey you are quite good at making yourself out to be buffoons and who knows maybe the animals are laughing at you in their own way. Superior in all ways but still trying to pretend you are an animal. Would animals be daft enough?
Truth is they wouldn't blooming care because they are animals they have no understanding of the argument.
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Buffoon and Sass, fit each other like hand in glove! :D
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Buffoon and Sass, fit each other like hand in glove! :D
= from: Floo on Today at 08:49:05 AM
No human terrorist, however bad, is a patch on the Biblical god when it comes to evil deeds.
Is there no end to your ignorance or no length you will not go to to make unfounded lies against God?
God only punished evil. Tell me what evil terrorist are punishing?
Now may God make all who know you come to know the truth ....that you speak without thinking to the ends of your own heart.
Putting evil for good and good for evil.
King James Bible
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
You see every true thinking and intelligent mind knows that terrorist do not act against people doing wrong.
The 9/11 show that terrorist hit out at innocent people and cause pain and suffering without just cause or reason.
By your words you have lied about God and worse still have made terrorist out to be not evil.
May Almighty God make it known what you have done.
I believe you are the perfect set and match for your own remark.
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I got in first! :D
Sass I don't think there are too many folk on this forum who give your posts much credence, but they can be a source of amusement from time to time.
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I think we have a new species here --- homo nonsapiens -- commonly known as a buffoon. It is a creature which thinks it is an animal and is incapable of using the intelligence it is born with. It is believed to be the product of a buffalo mating with a baboon.
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Not one of you are showing the intelligence you were born with. God exists and he is still the only evidence which has not been disproved. Scientist make claims and then make new claims. But never make solid claims.
Man is aware of his own mortality and animals are not. A CLEAR distinction as to why we are not animals.
There isn't any evidence of God to disprove. If there were any, then all these arguments would be over in a flash.
The fact that science keeps making new 'claims' and avoiding 'solid claims' is in fact its strength. It is by avoiding talking in certainties, by humbly accepting that all knowledge is provisional, that science remains light on its feet, not emotionally wedded to particular ideas.
The fact that we are aware of our mortality does not render us as some magic beings completely separate from other creatures. We still bleed when cut, we breathe oxygen like all other animals, we reproduce sexually and suckle our young like all other mammals. The fact that we are animals is simply an incontrovertible fact and a matter of definition.
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Will keep an eye out for sensible posts. :)
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Will keep an eye out for sensible posts. :)
Oh the irony! :D
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Most humans recognise their mortality. The sensible ones accept it, the daft ones pretend they have a formula that overcomes it, and that they go to live with their "God" for ever and ever amen!
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Most humans recognise their mortality. The sensible ones accept it, the daft ones pretend they have a formula that overcomes it, and that they go to live with their "God" for ever and ever amen!
So, Leonard, don't you believe that people could believe just because it is the truth?
I see as humans that a quick fixs would not be really adequate to remove any real fear of a persons mortality. Just as atheists probably take solace in that they may believe that when they die they know nothing just cease to exist. Why would that not be okay for everyone.
If death was like that what would there be to fear?
Why would Christ do all those wonderful things if there is nothing after this life.
Could someone really do that?
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Whilst there are many good and decent people of faith, it can also bring out the very worst elements of human nature.
As can politics, science and just about every other aspect of human life, Floo.
If god exists, why did it pick out quite a number of unpleasant people in the Bible to represent it, like Abraham, for instance?
Could it be that we are all unpleasant in our own ways, Floo, and therefore God has to use flawed and 'unpleasant' people to represent him? After all, I can think of some pretty unpleasant people who have represented science, politics, humanity, etc.
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As can politics, science and just about every other aspect of human life, Floo.
Could it be that we are all unpleasant in our own ways, Floo, and therefore God has to use flawed and 'unpleasant' people to represent him? After all, I can think of some pretty unpleasant people who have represented science, politics, humanity, etc.
Just to note that as per the notice in Banned Posters, Floo is currently banned for 3 days
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Just to note that as per the notice in Banned Posters, Floo is currently banned for 3 days
I'm aware of that (albeit 'after the fact' of my post you have quoted). However, a 3 day suspension allows her to catch up in a way that some of the longer suspensions don't. As I was responding to a 'Floo' post, I referenced her.
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I'm aware of that (albeit 'after the fact' of my post you have quoted). However, a 3 day suspension allows her to catch up in a way that some of the longer suspensions don't. As I was responding to a 'Floo' post, I referenced her.
I was merely informing of something you admit you didn't know.
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I didn't know either.
However, the point Hope makes about God possibly using some unpleasant people is an interesting one - because everyone has some unpleasant characteristics whether they admit it or not. God would have quite a task looking for a perfect person to represent him. We only have to look at the big characters in the Bible, some of whom had enormous character flaws, to illustrate the fact that there is no such perfect person!