Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: Sassy on March 07, 2016, 09:36:51 AM
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Seek ye first the Kingdom of God.
Seek whilst it may still be found before it is too late.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
The return of Christ will happen at the appointed time. Believers are told to be ready. People need to be warned that these things will take place. Where will you be? Taken or left behind...
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Another one for proselytising corner then.
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Seek ye first the Kingdom of God.
Seek whilst it may still be found before it is too late.
The return of Christ will happen at the appointed time. Believers are told to be ready. People need to be warned that these things will take place. Where will you be? Taken or left behind...
This nonsense of yours is all assertion and something you can't possibly know, however much you would like to think you do.
ippy
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The return of Christ will happen at the appointed time. Believers are told to be ready. People need to be warned that these things will take place. Where will you be? Taken or left behind...
...or already dead, given that you don't know exactly 'when' this event will happen?
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Left behind's definitely the preferable option.
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Interesting that you use Matt 24 for your spurious claims.
If you read it carefully you will see that Jesus is warning his listener that in their lifetime there will be many calamities culminating in the arrival of the Son of Man: 30 "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." and it will occur whilst they are still alive: 33 "Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
He then goes on to explain he cannot give an exact date or time: 36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." - 44 "So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him." But still implies that the event will still occur in their lifetime.
Why does Jesus keep using the Son of Man reference, both here in Matthew and in the parallel verses in Mark? (Chapters 13 and 14.)
Who does Jesus think this "Son of Man" is?
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Seek ye first the Kingdom of God.
Seek whilst it may still be found before it is too late.
The return of Christ will happen at the appointed time. Believers are told to be ready. People need to be warned that these things will take place. Where will you be? Taken or left behind...
Oh for gawd's sake this nonsense could be spewed out in 2000 years time if some people still believe in the extreme version of Christianity! ::)
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Interesting that you use Matt 24 for your spurious claims.
If you read it carefully you will see that Jesus is warning his listener that in their lifetime there will be many calamities culminating in the arrival of the Son of Man: 30 "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." and it will occur whilst they are still alive: 33 "Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
He then goes on to explain he cannot give an exact date or time: 36 "But about that day or hour no ìone knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." - 44 "So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him." But still implies that the event will still occur in their lifetime.
Why does Jesus keep using the Son of Man reference, both here in Matthew and in the parallel verses in Mark? (Chapters 13 and 14.)
Who does Jesus think this "Son of Man" is?
Does it matter?
Is it worth worrying about?
Is it likely Jesus thought anything of the sort?
Who bloody cares?
ippy
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Who does Jesus think this "Son of Man" is?
There is a good case for thinking that he believed it to be a 'spiritual personage' different from himself (i.e. the figure from the Book of Daniel who appears at the Last Judgment). However, the gospel writers in various places seem to conflate the two. Sometimes the thing gets very confusing, since Jesus is reported as using the phrase "Son of man" to refer to himself, but only in the sense that we might say "Yours truly". However, in the judgmental references towards the end of the synoptic gospels, he seems to be using the phrase to refer to a figure different from himself (i.e. the Daniel character). Since we can hardly trust the gospels as reporting the exact words of Jesus, no one can tell for certain - except that the Son of Man has not shown up as predicted (now there's a surprise).
I wonder if Sassy (or any other 'End-timers') will ever be able to see that claims by Jesus "not knowing the day or the hour" do not preclude his claim to know the short time interval he thought there would be before the Apocalypse?
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THE HOLY and UNHOLY PARROTS
A lady goes to see her priest one day and tells him, “Father, I have a problem. I have two female parrots, but they only know how to say one thing.” “What do they say?” the priest inquired. “They say, 'Hi, we’re hookers! Do you want to have some fun?' Isn't that awful?” the woman laments.
“That’s obscene!” the priest exclaimed. Then he thought for a moment. “You know,” he said, “I may have a solution to your problem. I have two male parrots who talk, and I have taught them to pray and read the Bible. Bring your two parrots over to my house, and we’ll put them in the cage with Francis and Job. My parrots can teach your parrots to praise and worship God, and your parrots are sure to stop saying... that... that indecent phrase...in no time.” “Thank you,” the woman responded, “this may very well be the solution!”
The next day, the woman brought her female parrots to the priest’s house. As he ushered the woman in, she saw that his two male parrots, Francis and Job, were inside their cage, holding rosary beads and actually praying, their pious little faces upturned toward heaven with beaks moving slightly as they prayed intently to the Lord.
Very impressed, the woman walked over and placed her parrots inside the cage with these very devout parrots. After a few minutes, sure enough, the female parrots cried out in unison: “Hi, we’re hookers! Do you want to have some fun?” A long moment of silence ensued. Shocked, one male parrot looked over at the other male parrot and exclaimed, “Put the beads away, Frank. Our prayers have been answered!”
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Does it matter?
Is it worth worrying about?
Is it likely Jesus thought anything of the sort?
Who bloody cares?
ippy
There is a direct relevance for such preoccupations, and that involves the fundamentalist tendencies of the often rich American right-wing. Certain influential nut-jobs out there have often got the ear of presidents, and have used their belief that we are 'living in the Time of the End' as an excuse for not spending too much money on social reform and welfare, since 'Jesus is coming along soon to save his chosen ones'.
To demonstrate that in fact Jesus was completely mistaken has therefore some relevance. And as a historical phenomenon, the 'End-time' fervour of 1st century Jews is often thought worth considering, for those who want to learn something from history.
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I've looked in the cupboard under the stairs and it's not in there.
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Well the truth is that Floo's own children believe in Christ's return. Second fact is there are two blank posts here from ippy and to start a back and forth with him would be like being alone.
Shakin it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtsCA1I3qbk
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Seek ye first the Kingdom of God.
I have sought the Kingdom of God. As a result of my seeking, I am pretty confident it does not exist.
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I've looked in the cupboard under the stairs and it's not in there.
I didn't realise the depths you could go to Kh, I'm impressed.
So what you're saying DU, is we need to know how and where these nutty beliefs guide these people, without necessarily taking their beliefs that seriously?
Ippy
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When the author of Revelation said that Jesus was coming "soon" he really meant "soon". Not, two thousand years later.
He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:20
What's more, no less a person than Paul foretold that the end would come in his lifetime and that he'd be one of those who will fly up to heaven.
According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
Check out the first words of Jesus in the oldest surviving gospel. Very near is not over two thousand years.
The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!
Mark 1:15
Then there's Luke who says that "Even now the axe is lying at the root of the trees". What he failed to mention is that two thousand years later it will still be lying there because his god has failed to pick it up. Of course, Luke wasn't thinking that his god would take that long. eh?
The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
Luke 3:9
When is Jesus coming?
I think it's sometime soon. That's what I hear.
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When the author of Revelation said that Jesus was coming "soon" he really meant "soon". Not, two thousand years later.
Yes, Khatru, the references you give (and there are many others, as Thrud will agree) indicate unequivocally that Jesus believed that the whole of history would be wound up a few decades after he was speaking - not over two thousand years later. On this question, I would say the message is completely clear from the gospels - but as I have pointed out, the Church has had nearly 2000 years of devious, disingenuous 'interpretation' to, first of all, quieten the voices of the confused and illiterate hoi-polloi, and subsequently numb the critical intelligence of those who got converted first and tried to think later.
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So what you're saying DU, is we need to know how and where these nutty beliefs guide these people, without necessarily taking their beliefs that seriously?
Ippy
Just typed a long reply to you, ippy, but the computer I was using refused to allow me to post it, and it was immediately dispatched into the void, and I can't retrieve it.
My answer is basically, yes. I think this is Thrud's approach too.
I'll name a few names which are relevant to my point. Ronald Reagan (and his wife Nancy), George Bush and the Reverend Ted Haggard, Sarah Palin (God forbid!) and the relationship between our own Tony Blair and Bush, with our former holy PM "feeling the Hand of History on his shoulder")
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Interesting that you use Matt 24 for your spurious claims.
If you read it carefully you will see that Jesus is warning his listener that in their lifetime there will be many calamities culminating in the arrival of the Son of Man: 30 "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." and it will occur whilst they are still alive: 33 "Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Christ clearly stating that the signs that will come before that generation has passed but that it is not the end is not yet.
He clearly goes on to say:-
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
He then goes on to explain he cannot give an exact date or time: 36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." - 44 "So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him." But still implies that the event will still occur in their lifetime.
Why does Jesus keep using the Son of Man reference, both here in Matthew and in the parallel verses in Mark? (Chapters 13 and 14.)
Who does Jesus think this "Son of Man" is?
The parable of the fig tree explains that the things which will come to pass before their generation passes are that which is before the coming of Christ. But that the end is not yet come.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
So the things that pass are the warning signs the beginning of the end. When things are near.
It is amazing how many do not understand what is being said.
But you forget that for some that generation did not pass away. Jesus Christ is from that generation and is still living.
He has not passed away and has established the Kingdom before that generation passed.
What is it you really want from this passage.
It clearly shows that Christ did not say he would return before that generation passed away. But he did return from the dead before that generation passed away and was seen to ascend on the clouds and said he would return that way.
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What is it you really want from this passage.
That's the question you need to ask yourself.
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That's the question you need to ask yourself.
Sass never questions herself, she is always right.
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That's the question you need to ask yourself.
Well let's see you substantiate that... I bet you can't on what is written.
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Well let's see you substantiate that... I bet you can't on what is written.
Ignore her, Dicky! Let her bleat away on her own.
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Sass never questions herself, she is always right.
She believes she is right, so do many of us, including yourself Len.
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She believes she is right, so do many of us, including yourself Len.
Indeed - people aren't given to holding beliefs that they think are wrong.
But then there are beliefs which are internally consistent and can be backed up by evidence, and then there are beliefs that ... well, aren't and can't ;)
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Sass never questions herself, she is always right.
Well let's see you substantiate that... I bet you can't on what is written.
I managed to mangle these two posts together and was just thinking 'Yeah Len! I bet you can't....', when I realised what I'd done.
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She believes she is right, so do many of us, including yourself Len.
Shakes has already explained the difference, so I won't bother.
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Shakes has already explained the difference, so I won't bother.
Sass, I hope the second coming doesn't happen untill after the England v Wales rugby this afternoon.
ippy
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Sass, I hope the second coming doesn't happen untill after the England v Wales rugby this afternoon.
ippy
OH MEGA YAWN, I hope the second coming occurs before that boredom begins! ;D ;D ;D
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Pitiful excuses and cover ups. What is it, the atheists do best when they cannot answer what was asked...
That's right they insult and move the goal posts. What you have proven is that everything said about yourselves is correct.
When you are on the ropes you cannot produce arguments to defend yourselves.
You cannot hold onto the ropes till the bell goes.
Typical how it takes so many of you to gang up and say absolutely NOTHING useful or in line with the issues raised.
What epic failures we have witnessed when it comes to actually verifying your own claims and accusations...
Thanks Brownie, they have to be smarting at such an epic dismal failure by a gang of atheists.
Numbers do not make something right and they certainly don't hide the epic failing as being unable to justify the claims they make.. We have to smile and yet cannot pretend they don't see it.. The atheists are in the altogether, their altogether naked as the day they were born...
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Sass, if the day ever come when you say something meaningful, instead of your usual crazy garbage, then maybe us terrible godless folk might take notice! ;D
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OH MEGA YAWN, I hope the second coming occurs before that boredom begins! ;D ;D ;D
I've now ordered even more rain Floo, to your already rain sodden homeland especially to the most northerly parts.
I only need to look as though I'm going in a easterly direction, to make all of the taps turn themselves on.
ippy
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I've now ordered even more rain Floo, to your already rain sodden homeland especially to the most northerly parts.
I only need to look as though I'm going in a easterly direction, to make all of the taps turn themselves on.
ippy
Our bit isn't sodden at all, in fact we have had less rain this winter than usual!
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Our bit isn't sodden at all, in fact we have had less rain this winter than usual!
Yeaaa but we've had three times less rain than whatever you say you've had.
Now get out of that if you can.
Regards ippy
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Seek ye first the Kingdom of god.
Now how about that for a really long job.
Sass you can live a perfectly good life without all of that fictious nonsense you keep coming out with and do something more usefull as well with all of the time you'll save yourself.
ippy
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Seek ye first the Kingdom of god.
Now how about that for a really long job.
Sass you can live a perfectly good life without all of that fictious nonsense you keep coming out with and do something more usefull as well with all of the time you'll save yourself.
ippy
Good... give your definition of a perfectly good life. Does your life match up to Mother Theresa and her life?
Given your own life and definition of good where does your selflessness match hers?
MT did good by being selfless are you planning to go and live where she lived and do good for selfless reasons?
There is good and their is goodness. But your good has no place in the form of true goodness. Where it is done for benefit of others at the cost of yourself.
Christ... a perfect example of selflessness.. dying for you and for many for their sins. Giving up his life without sin for you.
I think your understanding of living a good life is not the same as the believers living a selfless life for the good of others.
You are comfortable and you need not do anything but for yourself. God is selfless and so is Christ doing good to us even when we do not deserve it.
May be one day you will see that your good is based on things being good for you. The conditions MT lived in and the things she saw was not about herself but about the love and care for others.
You know nothing of the selfless goodness for the benefit of others.
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Sass, you know nothing of Ippy's life or that of any of the other people you enjoy attacking here. Fuck knows what you get out of it but your endless bile makes this forum an impossible place to be at times.
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Sass, you know nothing of Ippy's life or that of any of the other people you enjoy attacking here. Fuck knows what you get out of it but your endless bile makes this forum an impossible place to be at times.
I know you and he are not doing what MT did. Do you have a point or are you just here to try and carry on your pointless attack. That which you blame everyone else but yourself for.
No bile in my post just false accusations by yourself. Are you proud of yourself writing such posts to people who have done you no harm?
My post to Ippy is clear it contains the difference between selfless goodness and the other good where everything is fine as long self is ok.
You have no basis and right to make the false claims you just did. That is the truth.
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Good... give your definition of a perfectly good life. Does your life match up to Mother Theresa and her life?
Given your own life and definition of good where does your selflessness match hers?
MT did good by being selfless are you planning to go and live where she lived and do good for selfless reasons?
It's by now widely acknowledged that the nun of that name had a very far from selfless life. She had a distinctly worrying predilection, for instance, for cosying up to some of the most brutal tyrants and dictators of the day (the Duvalier dynasty and Enver Hoxha amongst them). She enjoyed all the blandishments that the high life could offer. She was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize despite having done nothing discernible for the cause of world peace and used her acceptance speech as a platform for one of her tedious diatribes about abortion. She offered the most meagre of care to the truly suffering and needy - her theology ensured that she was a friend of poverty, not of the poor.
That might be your idea of a selfless hero, but it's not mine.
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Sass, you know nothing of Ippy's life or that of any of the other people you enjoy attacking here. Fuck knows what you get out of it but your endless bile makes this forum an impossible place to be at times.
Cheers Rhi, Sass is OK, I think I'm making some progress with, her winding up, her overdone belief syndrome.
Sass you can't get away from Medicene Without Frontiers doing their work in an as near as you can get to pure altrustic reasons, where as M T, was doing her works with the brownie points waiting there in the wings and in the back of her mind, carrot/stick/religion never apart from each other.
Says it all Sass.
ippy
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There was nothing loving about the way MT withheld pain relief because suffering was good for the 'soul', the evil b*tch! >:( I have that on good authority from someone I met who had worked with the woman!
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I heard that too floo though she started off well enough. I was very impressed many, many years ago after reading Malcolm Muggeridge's 'Something Beautiful for God' (I must have been about 20 then), but her ethos seemed to change.
It's evident that, if people have power for too long, they believe they can walk on water. is a good example of that and there are many others. They seem to lose sight of their original ideals. The Mother Theresa organisation was/is huge and, frankly, those who worked for it could have put checks in place - maybe they did.
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Good... give your definition of a perfectly good life. Does your life match up to Mother Theresa and her life?
Given your own life and definition of good where does your selflessness match hers?
MT did good by being selfless are you planning to go and live where she lived and do good for selfless reasons?
There is good and their is goodness. But your good has no place in the form of true goodness. Where it is done for benefit of others at the cost of yourself.
Christ... a perfect example of selflessness.. dying for you and for many for their sins. Giving up his life without sin for you.
I think your understanding of living a good life is not the same as the believers living a selfless life for the good of others.
You are comfortable and you need not do anything but for yourself. God is selfless and so is Christ doing good to us even when we do not deserve it.
May be one day you will see that your good is based on things being good for you. The conditions MT lived in and the things she saw was not about herself but about the love and care for others.
You know nothing of the selfless goodness for the benefit of others.
Sass it's a posibility there was a Jesus bloke, nothing solid that would nail his existance at 100%.
The magic mystical and supernatural parts of the workshop manual, well that' about all they are, not much is it Sass, why do you allow yourself to be so taken in with this stuff?
Look at what Richard Dawkins is doing for the world, waking up all of those dulleyed religionists to the wonders of the world with all of the rationality of how these beautifull things have developed, into the present day and the money from his book sales going into this selfless foundation of his, how about that for doing good Sass?
His foundations are in the U S and for us here in the U K and there's a lot of selfless work involved with him devoting a lot of his time to do the necessary travelling, it's a good job there's people like him about.
ippy
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It's by now widely acknowledged that the nun of that name had a very far from selfless life. She had a distinctly worrying predilection, for instance, for cosying up to some of the most brutal tyrants and dictators of the day (the Duvalier dynasty and Enver Hoxha amongst them). She enjoyed all the blandishments that the high life could offer. She was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize despite having done nothing discernible for the cause of world peace and used her acceptance speech as a platform for one of her tedious diatribes about abortion. She offered the most meagre of care to the truly suffering and needy - her tehology ensured that she was a friend of poverty, not of the poor.
That might be your idea of a selfless hero, but it's not mine.
A few hours a few words. But who did she really look after the rest of those days, weeks, months, years and decades?
Jesus Christ was known to have associated with thieves and adulterers. What did that make him guilty of?
10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
We don't know her purpose of her reasoning... But it does not lessen her service to the poor for many years.
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There was nothing loving about the way MT withheld pain relief because suffering was good for the 'soul', the evil b*tch! >:( I have that on good authority from someone I met who had worked with the woman!
Someone who also withheld pain relief?
Good authority.... what authority has hearsay?
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Good authority.... what authority has hearsay?
You live your life by it, so you evidently accord it great authority.
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Cheers Rhi, Sass is OK, I think I'm making some progress with, her winding up, her overdone belief syndrome.
Sass you can't get away from Medicene Without Frontiers doing their work in an as near as you can get to pure altrustic reasons, where as M T, was doing her works with the brownie points waiting there in the wings and in the back of her mind, carrot/stick/religion never apart from each other.
Says it all Sass.
ippy
The first healing from herbs and medicinal purpose was also in the bible.
MT got no Brownie points... unless of course you believe her life to be an example of proof that God exists and so she lived accordingly.
Sorry Ippy has nothing to do with the being able to live a perfectly good life. As I said, "
Good... give your definition of a perfectly good life." You have not done what I asked. :)
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The first healing from herbs and medicinal purpose was also in the bible.
MT got no Brownie points... unless of course you believe her life to be an example of proof that God exists and so she lived accordingly.
Sorry Ippy has nothing to do with the being able to live a perfectly good life. As I said, "
Good... give your definition of a perfectly good life." You have not done what I asked. :)
Sass I think you must have missed the underlined part of my previous post:
"Sass you can't get away from Medicine Without Frontiers doing their work in an as near as you can get to pure altruistic reasons, where as M T, was doing her works with the brownie points waiting there in the wings and in the back of her mind, carrot/stick/religion never apart from each other".
We all do it Sass, you just missed it.
It's well known that herbs can be a help with all sorts of ailments, no need for any mysticism there.
Isn't M S F isn't a good example of living a good life? A lot of people you refer to as atheists on this forum all trying to help you with your misplaced loyalties and apart from the odd murder or two, I haven't got a police record yet, they haven't caught me, I live a reasonable life much like most decent non-believers, you seem to need a book to tell you how to be good, I behave myself mostly without even thinking I need some kind of text book, or do in fact need one, to tell me how, you're the sad one Sass.
ippy
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It's by now widely acknowledged that the nun of that name had a very far from selfless life. She had a distinctly worrying predilection, for instance, for cosying up to some of the most brutal tyrants and dictators of the day (the Duvalier dynasty and Enver Hoxha amongst them). She enjoyed all the blandishments that the high life could offer. She was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize despite having done nothing discernible for the cause of world peace and used her acceptance speech as a platform for one of her tedious diatribes about abortion. She offered the most meagre of care to the truly suffering and needy - her theology ensured that she was a friend of poverty, not of the poor.
That might be your idea of a selfless hero, but it's not mine.
As I understand it, Shaker, all that is too true. Providing a rubber mat for an extremely ill person to die on may be marginally better than allowing the suffering to die in the street, but hardly counts as compassionate medical care. In fact she appears to have actively opposed the provision of certain readily available drugs which could have cured and controlled a number of the diseases which her 'patients' presented.
As for that old mountebank Malcolm Muggeridge's apologias - he may have been a witty political commentator, but on any other subject he seems to have been a complete ignoramus (didn't even believe in evolution). As for his Christian 'conversion' - it seems to have come along just as his insatiable sexual appetite was beginning to wane. Definitely a case of "oh Lord, make chaste, but not yet".
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Sass I think you must have missed the underlined part of my previous post:
"Sass you can't get away from Medicine Without Frontiers doing their work in an as near as you can get to pure altruistic reasons, where as M T, was doing her works with the brownie points waiting there in the wings and in the back of her mind, carrot/stick/religion never apart from each other".
I think it was you who didn't get it...
You cannot have a carrot/stick/religion unless you believe/know it is true.
So my point was that she was an example that her faith was that God was real. There were some writings she asked to be destroyed after her death. Which some people disregarded and published some of them. (Only an atheist money grabbing person could do that) What I asked you for was VERY CLEAR and you did not supply the answer.
It was clearly YOU who never did as asked.
We all do it Sass, you just missed it.
It's well known that herbs can be a help with all sorts of ailments, no need for any mysticism there.
Isn't M S F isn't a good example of living a good life? A lot of people you refer to as atheists on this forum all trying to help you with your misplaced loyalties and apart from the odd murder or two, I haven't got a police record yet, they haven't caught me, I live a reasonable life much like most decent non-believers, you seem to need a book to tell you how to be good, I behave myself mostly without even thinking I need some kind of text book, or do in fact need one, to tell me how, you're the sad one Sass.
ippy
No, I didn't miss anything... You moved the goal post. Try to bring something else into it. Like here now. the above
I did not ask you about your life. I asked you....
As I said, "
Good... give your definition of a perfectly good life." You have not done what I asked.
So using your own words. Please do as I asked.