Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: jeremyp on March 18, 2016, 09:33:06 PM

Title: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: jeremyp on March 18, 2016, 09:33:06 PM
Iain Duncan Smith resigns

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35848687

Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 18, 2016, 09:53:44 PM
Even a Euro Sceptic will pretend that the policies he has implemented might be something that he can resign in principle if he thinks it will put him in a better place post referendum.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 18, 2016, 10:27:04 PM
If Ian Duncan Smith's resignation helps stop the witless stuff on PIP in the budget, good! But it is a personal calculation by a politician that has happily implemented policies such as the bedroom tax, happily lied about the policies, and is happily lying now about his reasons for resigning, if you don't think so then why did he wait post budget and post indications that the policy was doing badly? This isn't principle it's a piece of autofellation by a spunksock.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 18, 2016, 10:36:20 PM
Not sure I agree with this entirely but the narrative is currently awry


https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/scratch-one-tory-1efdada64080#.7famytu76
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Udayana on March 18, 2016, 11:40:18 PM
If they weren't in the process of wasting £15.8b on an IT system they would have enough to keep the disability payments, with plenty to spare.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/16/universal_credit_internal_reviews_disclosure_order/

Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Gonnagle on March 19, 2016, 09:45:46 AM
Dear Lost in Politics, ( that's me Sane, not you )

Quote
That happened while Thatcherism was in its ascendant. This happens while Cameronism — whatever that actually is — has descended into ideological and governmental disarray.

I have to agree with this Paul Mason guy, Is it just me or do others agree, when other world leaders see Cameron approaching do they snigger, do they think, poor Britain being led by such a weak chinned wonder, is it shallow of me to think that our leader should have some kind of charisma, a back bone.

All this austerity bull shit and we are in it together nonsense, I doubt Cameron will be remembered for anything monumental, he just seems like a puppet, but whose puppet??

Gonnagle.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: ProfessorDavey on March 19, 2016, 10:02:54 AM
I doubt Cameron will be remembered for anything monumental,
Depending on what happens in June he may well be remembered for something monumental - but not positive - the break up of the UK.

If the UK votes for out, Scotland is likely to vote for independence. But it will also destabilise Northern Ireland massively, which could break the peace process or even lead to NI joining with the republic within the EU.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Gordon on March 19, 2016, 10:06:29 AM
The whole thing with the Tories is now shambolic - this would never had happened had Malcolm Tucker been around.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 19, 2016, 10:15:11 AM

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/government-to-struggle-on-without-duncan-smiths-warmth-and-charm-20160319107321

Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Rhiannon on March 19, 2016, 10:44:21 AM
Dear Lost in Politics, ( that's me Sane, not you )

I have to agree with this Paul Mason guy, Is it just me or do others agree, when other world leaders see Cameron approaching do they snigger, do they think, poor Britain being led by such a weak chinned wonder, is it shallow of me to think that our leader should have some kind of charisma, a back bone.

All this austerity bull shit and we are in it together nonsense, I doubt Cameron will be remembered for anything monumental, he just seems like a puppet, but whose puppet??

Gonnagle.

Gonners, I've long thought that Cameron is the face and Osborne the brains.

I agree with PD that Cameron could preside over the disintegration of GB & NI; the seeds of that were sown by previous administrations but he has mishandled it spectacularly.

Something else I agree with - I have no idea what Cameron stands for. The economic policies that drive just about everything are Osborne's; the only thing I can think of that appears to come close to a principled stand on his part was the introduction of marriage equality.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on March 19, 2016, 11:03:29 AM
The whole thing with the Tories is now shambolic - this would never had happened had Malcolm Tucker been around.
Tis true, they have crashed the car.

What happened to days when the budget was just about a bit on fags, a bit off a pint of beer.

Why do Osborne feel driven to budgets which are either Busby fucking Berkeley or Armageddon?
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on March 19, 2016, 11:06:30 AM
Gonners, I've long thought that Cameron is the face and Osborne the brains.

I agree with PD that Cameron could preside over the disintegration of GB & NI; the seeds of that were sown by previous administrations but he has mishandled it spectacularly.

Something else I agree with - I have no idea what Cameron stands for. The economic policies that drive just about everything are Osborne's; the only thing I can think of that appears to come close to a principled stand on his part was the introduction of marriage equality.
You're fooling yourself, that was to get an section of the vote antipathetic to his party to vote for him.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: ProfessorDavey on March 19, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
You're fooling yourself, that was to get an section of the vote antipathetic to his party to vote for him.
I disagree - I think he genuinely believed in it - from a purely political perspective is wasn't a smart electoral move, on the basis that many of those most opposed were his own elderly right wingers - who always vote and were easy targets for UKIP.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Gonnagle on March 19, 2016, 11:36:44 AM
Dear Rhiannon,

Quote
Gonners, I've long thought that Cameron is the face and Osborne the brains.

You may well be right, which answers my question, Cameron is Osborne's puppet, you know!! I really should spend less time on this forum, I was shaving this morning and thought, I wish I could grow a beard like Gordon's and then having my fry up I thought, wonder what Shaker and Rhiannon with their vegetable terrorism think about my two slice of bacon :o :o :o

Gonnagle.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Gonnagle on March 19, 2016, 11:42:46 AM
Dear Profdavey,

I have to agree with Vlad, listening to the man in the House of Commons, watching him in the media, he doesn't come across as a man who is interested in anybodies human rights.

Gonnagle.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: SusanDoris on March 19, 2016, 11:48:39 AM
Dear Profdavey,

I have to agree with Vlad, listening to the man in the House of Commons, watching him in the media, he doesn't come across as a man who is interested in anybodies human rights.

Gonnagle.
If you're referring to David Cameron here, I hope you bear in mind that this is a man who had a disabled child who died.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: L.A. on March 19, 2016, 11:55:40 AM
Iain Duncan Smith resigns

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35848687

I don't think his actions have anything to do with benefits cuts - his actions are those of a suicide bomber attempting to destroy the IN campaign.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: floo on March 19, 2016, 12:32:02 PM
I suspect Cameron might have his arm up his back to resign sooner rather than later. I believe he said at the beginning of this parliament he didn't intend to see it all the way through.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Jack Knave on March 19, 2016, 02:12:09 PM
Dear Lost in Politics, ( that's me Sane, not you )

I have to agree with this Paul Mason guy, Is it just me or do others agree, when other world leaders see Cameron approaching do they snigger, do they think, poor Britain being led by such a weak chinned wonder, is it shallow of me to think that our leader should have some kind of charisma, a back bone.

All this austerity bull shit and we are in it together nonsense, I doubt Cameron will be remembered for anything monumental, he just seems like a puppet, but whose puppet??

Gonnagle.
I think that is true for all Western leaders, they are a farce!
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Jack Knave on March 19, 2016, 02:17:52 PM
Even a Euro Sceptic will pretend that the policies he has implemented might be something that he can resign in principle if he thinks it will put him in a better place post referendum.
And think this is probably it that he sees Osborne's PIP more as a death nail for the Cameron team and that after the referendum he can join the new PM's outfit. It could also be that the venom that has been going on behind closed doors over the years has added to his move.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Hope on March 19, 2016, 04:20:21 PM
I think the thread title is somewhat mistaken.  There would appear to be many more than one Tory who believe this.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Hope on March 19, 2016, 04:26:14 PM
Dear Lost in Politics, ( that's me Sane, not you )

I have to agree with this Paul Mason guy, Is it just me or do others agree, when other world leaders see Cameron approaching do they snigger, do they think, poor Britain being led by such a weak chinned wonder, is it shallow of me to think that our leader should have some kind of charisma, a back bone.
From what I've heard from many world leaders, Cameron is regarded pretty highly. Possibly more so than any of the previous Labour administration's leaders.  As for Scotland, it will be interesting to see what EU and other leaders think of whoever is leader of the SNP if and when Scotland ever decide to become independent.

Quote
All this austerity bull shit and we are in it together nonsense, I doubt Cameron will be remembered for anything monumental, he just seems like a puppet, but whose puppet??
The Tory Party's?
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: jakswan on March 20, 2016, 11:25:03 AM
I know many of you are hard lefties and can only demonise the Tories but IDS has dealt labour a pack of top trumps, you ought to be celebrating.

Perhaps now we'll get some proper opposition.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Hope on March 20, 2016, 01:22:32 PM
Perhaps now we'll get some proper opposition.
The SNP aren't strong enough on their own, jaks  ;)
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: wigginhall on March 20, 2016, 02:49:22 PM
It is quite comical to see IDS complaining that the govt have been hurting the poor and the vulnerable.   Well, yes, you could say that.   It makes me think that there is more going on than disability benefits - well, obviously.   A power struggle, I suppose.   

If Remain win the referendum, then IDS was probably for the chop in any case, so he has jumped before being pushed.  If Leave win, presumably, IDS will be a top man. 
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Jack Knave on March 20, 2016, 04:56:07 PM
It is quite comical to see IDS complaining that the govt have been hurting the poor and the vulnerable.   Well, yes, you could say that.   It makes me think that there is more going on than disability benefits - well, obviously.   A power struggle, I suppose.   

If Remain win the referendum, then IDS was probably for the chop in any case, so he has jumped before being pushed.  If Leave win, presumably, IDS will be a top man.
I saw IDS on the Marr show and I believed what he said, that he resigned because of what Osborne has been doing at No. 11, which has derailed his departments efforts to reorganise the welfare state.

What is also obvious to me is that IDS is a victim of his own myopic, one-track-mind pet project carried out to an analistical degree. A project devoid of any connection with reality of today's circumstances. His demeanour came across to me as being similar to the manic ideological Leftie keeno's implementation of socialist's projects where they have lost touch with what is actually going on at ground level.

And I would have a similar analysis of Osborne too. Two deluded keenos with projects that jar against each other have finally moved the inner tensions to the outside world.

As someone has said the title of this thread is wrong, it is many Tories who disagree with the budget, and don't like Osborne, and with the tensions of the referendum the Tories look likely to a full blown civil war.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Hope on March 20, 2016, 05:20:52 PM
If Remain win the referendum, then IDS was probably for the chop in any case, so he has jumped before being pushed.  If Leave win, presumably, IDS will be a top man.
I'd disagree, wiggs; I think that if Remain win, Cameron would be wanting to populate any post-referendum cabinet with a wide selection of Tories, so as to help keep the party together.  In fact, several commentators seemed to be saying this on Radio 5's Piennar's Politics this morning (or at least the 20 minute segment I heard).
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Jack Knave on March 20, 2016, 05:29:32 PM
I'd disagree, wiggs; I think that if Remain win, Cameron would be wanting to populate any post-referendum cabinet with a wide selection of Tories, so as to help keep the party together.  In fact, several commentators seemed to be saying this on Radio 5's Piennar's Politics this morning (or at least the 20 minute segment I heard).
I think it depends on the margin of the win. Even with a slight win I think Cameron is out or at least a battle for domination will take place. I forget how many Tory MPs are required for a leadership contest but with around 140 Outers there are plenty to choose from.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: jeremyp on March 20, 2016, 06:01:39 PM
If Leave win, presumably, IDS will be a top man.

Who can forget the last time he was top man? Well, practically everybody, which was the whole problem.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Jack Knave on March 21, 2016, 08:00:37 PM
Listening to all the talk about this issue in the media it could be that IDS actually planned this whole adventure before the budget. There have been rumours that he had thought about resigning about a year ago, so the dislike of Osborne has at least been brewing from then, or reached near breaking point. Also it is thought that his pet project was pretty much over and he could get the chop after the referendum, especially if the Inners win.

He knew that Ossy was using the Welfare budget as a cash cow and could have offered him these latest plans as bait; knowing that he couldn't resist such an offer and that after the tax credit farce this would heap even more disgrace on the guy. As Cameron is tied in with Osborne and are both Remainers he could, by this move, try to kill two birds with one stone - stab Ossy in the back and get him to lose all credibility, and to stain the two big voices of the Remain campaign by showing them to be heartless to the poor and vulnerable, thereby, making people react against them and the EU when ever they speak on the subject.

A third possible bonus would be that if the Leavers win then he could get back into the cabinet and power. Of course this would mean Cameron would have to stand down early.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: wigginhall on March 21, 2016, 09:16:47 PM
There is an obvious solution to funding people with disability, and this is to simplify life.  For example, those in wheelchairs could be given chairs with just one wheel.   Just think, they would learn new skills in balancing, and we would end up with a brilliant Paralympic team.

Similarly, those who need help with washing and toilet could also simplify.   For example, washing once every two days is perfectly adequate, and going to the toilet, well, once a day should be OK.

Just think of the money saved!  We could reward all those hard-working bankers and other executives, so they could enjoy their holidays in the sun, well, they need it after working hard for Britain. 
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: jakswan on March 22, 2016, 11:39:29 AM
There is an obvious solution to funding people with disability, and this is to simplify life.  For example, those in wheelchairs could be given chairs with just one wheel.   Just think, they would learn new skills in balancing, and we would end up with a brilliant Paralympic team.

Similarly, those who need help with washing and toilet could also simplify.   For example, washing once every two days is perfectly adequate, and going to the toilet, well, once a day should be OK.

Just think of the money saved!  We could reward all those hard-working bankers and other executives, so they could enjoy their holidays in the sun, well, they need it after working hard for Britain.

Yep those on the right all think that, I'm in the middle so not a good guy either. I should listen to the hard left and cuddle the terrorists, lets sit around the campfire and sing kum ba yah in between we can demonise those that disagree with us and all agree that mother love and apple pie are the way to go.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: SqueakyVoice on March 22, 2016, 12:51:11 PM
Yep those on the right all think that, I'm in the middle so not a good guy either. I should listen to the hard left and cuddle the terrorists, lets sit around the campfire and sing kum ba yah in between we can demonise those that disagree with us and all agree that mother love and apple pie are the way to go.

Wow! From "cuddle the terrorists" to "demonise those that disagree with us" in under one sentence.
That's the sort of cognitive dissonance that would make most YECs heads spin.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: jakswan on March 22, 2016, 01:18:26 PM
Wow! From "cuddle the terrorists" to "demonise those that disagree with us" in under one sentence.
That's the sort of cognitive dissonance that would make most YECs heads spin.

That's the hard left for you.
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Jack Knave on March 22, 2016, 04:27:41 PM
There is an obvious solution to funding people with disability, and this is to simplify life.  For example, those in wheelchairs could be given chairs with just one wheel.   Just think, they would learn new skills in balancing, and we would end up with a brilliant Paralympic team.

Similarly, those who need help with washing and toilet could also simplify.   For example, washing once every two days is perfectly adequate, and going to the toilet, well, once a day should be OK.

Just think of the money saved!  We could reward all those hard-working bankers and other executives, so they could enjoy their holidays in the sun, well, they need it after working hard for Britain.
I think the Tories have a job for you at No.11. I hear the present guy there is on the way out. Not Leftfield but great Rightfield thinking, Wiggy! I could go for PM!  ;D We'd make a great team, Knave and Wiggy.....wat da ya fink?
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Jack Knave on March 22, 2016, 04:37:08 PM
Yep those on the right all think that, I'm in the middle so not a good guy either. I should listen to the hard left and cuddle the terrorists, lets sit around the campfire and sing kum ba yah in between we can demonise those that disagree with us and all agree that mother love and apple pie are the way to go.
Are you running for the White House? President Jaks...has a certain ring to it, don't you think?
Title: Re: Even a Tory thinks the Tories are going too far
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 22, 2016, 10:55:33 PM
And his replacement thinks homosexuality can be 'cured'