Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: Ricky Spanish on March 20, 2016, 06:51:31 PM
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Targets the vulnerable:
Pay-to-pray scam finds families caught between faith and desperation.
A Washington judge has ordered the Christian Prayer Center to pay $7m in restitution as attorney general calls for more victims to come forward.
Washington state attorney general’s office to investigate.
The first complaints about the Christian Prayer Center were short and cryptic – but not enough for the Washington state attorney general’s office to investigate. These people bilked me.
But then, a lengthy letter landed, from a family whose members were both heartbroken and furious.
“They had a child with a rare terminal illness,” said assistant attorney general Daniel Davies. “They were looking for hope anywhere they could get it. One of the places they turned to was the Christian Prayer Center.
“When they are going through incredibly difficult situations, often times people turn to prayer,” Davies continued. “They see a website touting that thousands of people will pray for you. They have a pastor, testimonials on the website of people whose prayers were answered.
“The pastor was a sham,” he said. “The testimonials were fictitious as well.”
The child is still dying.
And the family paid and paid. The first $35 they gave to the Christian Prayer Center to help their ailing daughter was one kind of fraud.
No one was praying.
There was no one there to help.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/20/pay-to-pray-scam-washington-christian-prayer-center-online
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Stealing money from simple people is so wicked.
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Targets the vulnerable:
Nothing new there Thrud, the RC's vatican was built on money acquired by another type of fraud just as bad as the fraud you're refering to in your OP.
ippy
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This is a really nasty scam. IMHO it's even worse than the SE Asian favourite of asking for money for medicine for fictional sick children.
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Targets the vulnerable:
Is it the same one that I wrote about here. They get you to write your prayer out and ask how important it is, and unless you give them money your prayer does not get posted or prayed for?
http://www1.cbn.com/prayer
Here is a good prayer line your prayers are free. People pray for you and with you if you want. Doesn't cost you anything to have people pray. Also they have better results.
I have asked them to pray for this little girl and her family and all those who are mislead into thinking you can buy from God through man, what gives freely to all who ask.
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Another example how evil people prey (pun intended) on the gullible! ;D
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Yet another example of mammon taking advantage of people. I'm not sure about the pedigree of the Chritian Prayer Centre - but suspect it's much the same as the peddlars of the Prosperity Gospel - who ask for donations for their TV shows, etc.
I notice that pretty well all the examples of this kind are from America; I suspect that that is because the American state religion - capitalism - has been allowed to adopt Christianity in the same way that occurred when the Roman Empire adopted it.
There are, of course, plenty of other excamples of far better practice - Sojourners, for instance - https://sojo.net/
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I notice that pretty well all the examples of this kind are from America; I suspect that that is because the American state religion - capitalism - has been allowed to adopt Christianity in the same way that occurred when the Roman Empire adopted it.
You have this passage the wrong way round - the American Christian Churches have grabbed hold of the American capitalist dream with both greedy and avariciaous hands, just as the Catholic branch has for centuries - the Catholics are Christian so don't try and differenciate between them and American Protestants. Selling Holy Relics and passing the collection plate to South American peasants who are well below the poverty line and selling Prayers are two sides of the same coin!
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You have this passage the wrong way round - the American Christian Churches have grabbed hold of the American capitalist dream with both greedy and avariciaous hands, just as the Catholic branch has for centuries - the Catholics are Christian so don't try and differenciate between them and American Protestants. Selling Holy Relics and passing the collection plate to South American peasants who are well below the poverty line and selling Prayers are two sides of the same coin!
I suppose it depends on whether you believe that Christianity is synonymous with capitalism, Owl. I can understand your argument if they are synonymous, but I'd suggest that they aren't.
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What I don't understand is why people need someone to pray for them, when if they feel the need, they can offer up a prayer themselves for free?
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I suppose it depends on whether you believe that Christianity is synonymous with capitalism, Owl. I can understand your argument if they are synonymous, but I'd suggest that they aren't.
Don't talk rubbish! The Christian Church, Catholic and C of E, own huge swathes of land and have huge bank balances, effectively they are businesses, yet they still require contributions from parishioners every Sunday!
They are capitialism personified just like all other big businesses.
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Don't talk rubbish! The Christian Church, Catholic and C of E, own huge swathes of land and have huge bank balances, effectively they are businesses, yet they still require contributions from parishioners every Sunday!
They are capitialism personified just like all other big businesses.
By that reckoning so are most trades unions.
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By that reckoning so are most trades unions.
Trades unions don't have a belief system which regards money as inimical to it, though.
There's no part of a trade union charter (that I know of) which says that you can't serve money and the trade union both, or that enjoins its members to sell everything they have and give the proceeds to the poor, for example.
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Don't talk rubbish! The Christian Church, Catholic and C of E, own huge swathes of land and have huge bank balances, effectively they are businesses, yet they still require contributions from parishioners every Sunday!
They are capitialism personified just like all other big businesses.
Owl, may I suggest that you take the 'Christian Church' out of the equation, and simply highlight the wealth of the RC and CofE/Anglican churches (at least here in the UK). Many Baptist/Methodist/other non-conformist groups own buildings but as I'm sure you'll agree owning property doesn't always equate with a healthy cash-flow. Those buildings have to be maintained and it is often difficult to find funders who will help with thius kind of funding.
Take our church, for instance; a large Baptist chapel some 150 years old. Everything we do - be that working with the poor, those in need of food parcels, children, elderly, ... has to be paid for by the collection that we take on a week by week basis. OK, we get donations of food for the food-bank, from other churches and one of the local supermarkets; we get a reasonable sum for our annual Gift Day collection, which will be used alternatively between supporting activities abroad (3 years ago we collected about £2000 for the 'Against Malaria Foundation' and at home - this year's appeal is for the completion of our specialist homelessness/food-bank/debt-advice/JobClub/emergency housing project (we bought the building a year ago and are in the process of renovating and rearranging it to our needs)
Go beyond the UK, and in some places, the state pays to maintain (some) churches - in France for instance, because the buildings belong to the state.
Go beyond the West and the Christian Church is often to all intents and purposes penniless.
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What I don't understand is why people need someone to pray for them, when if they feel the need, they can offer up a prayer themselves for free?
Loads of reasons. Some believe in the power of numbers - a bit like extra wattage. For some it's simply sharing a burden. Some don't have the time to pray, and others believe prayer is extra special if carried out by someone in holy orders.
FWIW in case anyone feels the need it's possible to post prayer requests in person at most cathedrals, or via the websites of various holy orders, or on the re:Jesus website.
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Loads of reasons. Some believe in the power of numbers - a bit like extra wattage. For some it's simply sharing a burden. Some don't have the time to pray, and others believe prayer is extra special if carried out by someone in holy orders.
FWIW in case anyone feels the need it's possible to post prayer requests in person at most cathedrals, or via the websites of various holy orders, or on the re:Jesus website.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Bearing in mind you asked why people ask others to pray for them, Floo. Paying for it is never necessary.
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Bearing in mind you asked why people ask others to pray for them, Floo. Paying for it is never necessary.
I wonder if god is expecting a cut of the profits from those making money out of prayer? ;D
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I wonder if god is expecting a cut of the profits from those making money out of prayer? ;D
Oh, are there shops in heaven then? ::)
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Oh, are there shops in heaven then? ::)
I bet they're only open 10-4 with half an hour's browsing time beforehand.
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Oh, are there shops in heaven then? ::)
Probably. ;D
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Leo,
It is wicked to steal money from the simple, but every government does anyways.
Luci,
Something special for ya. Hope it makes you laugh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r0Fvbi70mg
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Bearing in mind you asked why people ask others to pray for them, Floo. Paying for it is never necessary.
I agree. You do not need to pay for genuine prayers.
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I agree Rhi. You do a lot of praying do ya?
But theys got to have money so, give em all yo money!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmmlRu6R-cg
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Leo,
It is wicked to steal money from the simple, but every government does anyways.
Too true! Fortunately the internet is making it more difficult for them to get away with it ... as the current political crisis in Spain is showing.
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Sometimes it is a simple case of the person asking does not feel they have enough faith.
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.
28 And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
In the world people become distraught and frightened when their child becomes so seriously ill. When it concerns children they mistake their worry for lack of faith and they also do not feel their faith adequate.
In reality God knows our needs and he knows what we should do. I reported this very thing on here some months back about how people write their prayer out and if you cannot sow a seed for as little as 9 dollars the prayer is not sent because there are many who need the prayers who will pay.
What this site did was blatantly wrong. It lost it's power and momentum because they thought they could sell the good things from God.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
I am sure most just paid the money never thought or knew what happened to those who didn't. Some would have prayed with good hearts for those who had asked for prayer on the site.
When Christ returns many will say they did miracles in his name, but he will say that he never knew them.
The pray can work even if just two to three persons are genuine who pray. But it is not the money and the money has no part in getting the prayer answered.
God gives us all things freely. Christ never asked for money to help others. God only ever asks for our thanks for all he gives us. The real sacrifice to God is thanks.
We have to trust in the LORD. The church should encourage believers and constantly remind them they cannot buy that which comes from God. Even Peter said "Silver and God have I none, but such as I have give I thee. In the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk"
Jesus tells people to seek the kingdom of God first and everything will be added unto them.
Hope anyone who reads this thread see the truth and does not go to try and buy what God gives freely to all. Even those who really do not know Christ.
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Sass and the 'truth', well it is good for a 'larf', I suppose. ;D ;D ;D
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Sass and the 'truth', well it is good for a 'larf', I suppose. ;D ;D ;D
Tinged with pity, though. :(