Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Theism and Atheism => Topic started by: Khatru on April 03, 2016, 11:25:22 AM
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We all know the myth of Adam and Eve.
They were told not to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. However, the bible god was fooled by a talking snake who tricked Eve into eating the fruit.
What was the first thing that Adam and Eve realised after eating the fruit? They realised that they were naked and covered themselves up.
Of course this implies that nudity is evil because if it were good they'd have remained naked.
So........
If nudity is evil then the bible god made Adam and Eve that way.
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It would be a crime against humanity if I stripped off in public. ;D
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I think it actually symbolises a loss of innocence. It isn't the nudity that is wrong, but their knowledge of it.
Which leads to a need to explain why a loss of innocence should result in regarding the knowledge of nakedness as shameful in and of itself. And as far as I can see the story doesn't furnish one.
We see modern society get blamed for a screwed up attitude to sex thanks to its dysfunctional mix of prudery and prurience, and yet it's all there in the OT.
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I think it actually symbolises a loss of innocence. It isn't the nudity that is wrong, but their knowledge of it.
Which leads to a need to explain why a loss of innocence should result in regarding the knowledge of nakedness as shameful in and of itself. And as far as I can see the story doesn't furnish one.
We see modern society get blamed for a screwed up attitude to sex thanks to its dysfunctional mix of prudery and prurience, and yet it's all there in the OT.
Most people don't read the OT and so it's the dysfunctional mix of prurience and prudery in modern society.
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I think it actually symbolises a loss of innocence. It isn't the nudity that is wrong, but their knowledge of it.
Which leads to a need to explain why a loss of innocence should result in regarding the knowledge of nakedness as shameful in and of itself. And as far as I can see the story doesn't furnish one.
We see modern society get blamed for a screwed up attitude to sex thanks to its dysfunctional mix of prudery and prurience, and yet it's all there in the OT.
It might be that it needs to be linked to 'eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil'. Eating means taking something into yourself i.e. assuming knowledge of what is good and what is evil and judging accordingly. Amongst many other things, judging nakedness as shameful is a result of this. Only God knows what is good and what is evil, so obey God and 'judge not, lest ye shall also be judged', is my guess.
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Like Rhiannon, I've always thought of the nakedness of Adam and Eve to represent innocence and when they discovered greed, pride, guile, lies etc, their innocence was stripped away. It's an allegorical story of people not being ashamed to hide anything and then uncovering a different side to their nature that they had hitherto been unaware of; for the first time they were ashamed of themselves, and wanted to hide (not boobs and willies!).
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It's bad if there is too much sun or too little ;)
The uk is too cold to be naked too often, and I don't want sunburn on me bits.
It hurts :(
Plus clothes offer some protection from brambles and stinging nettles.
I'm shivering in a field wishing I had worn more tbh, the thought of no clothes doesn't appeal.
:)
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Most people don't read the OT and so it's the dysfunctional mix of prurience and prudery in modern society.
You don't need to read the Bible or even be a Christian to feel the influence of it on our culture. It's been so for centuries.
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Plus it's too cold most of the time in the uk to go without anything.
It's probably come about from that.
Attitudes in warmer climates can be more open minded ( religion aside)
In some countries like Africa women think nothing of having bare boobs.
IMO our ' hang ups' are cultural.
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That's right the manufacturer is responsible for their handy work. Just as VW are!!!
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That's right the manufacturer is responsible for their handy work. Just as VW are!!!
Eh?
Did I miss something?
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Eh?
Did I miss something?
Seems you did!
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We all know the myth of Adam and Eve.
They were told not to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. However, the bible god was fooled by a talking snake who tricked Eve into eating the fruit.
What was the first thing that Adam and Eve realised after eating the fruit? They realised that they were naked and covered themselves up.
Of course this implies that nudity is evil because if it were good they'd have remained naked.
So........
If nudity is evil then the bible god made Adam and Eve that way.
I think it shows what God says to be true. That right and wrong existed before Adam and Eve created.
To remain in their innocent state not knowing right and wrong then they did not have the knowledge which would separate them from God and make them a sinner.
Being naked isn't evil after all we have to be naked for a bath. It is the way man looks upon nakedness.
It is what he perceives in his heart due to it.
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...
It is the way man looks upon nakedness.
It is what he perceives in his heart due to it.
And what is that?
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I think it shows what God says to be true. That right and wrong existed before Adam and Eve created.
To remain in their innocent state not knowing right and wrong then they did not have the knowledge which would separate them from God and make them a sinner.
Being naked isn't evil after all we have to be naked for a bath. It is the way man looks upon nakedness.
It is what he perceives in his heart due to it.
More Sass stupidity!
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Khatru, what was the difference in A & E between before and after their eating the apple?
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More Sass stupidity!
You would be the perfect definition for the dictionary when it comes to stupidity and ignorance combined.
You don't realise people laugh at you because you are unlearned enough to not know when someone is speaking correctly concerning the things of faith and God. However doesn't excuse your bad manners. Was that a lapse in your education or just your willfulness to do and say the wrong things about /and to others?
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You would be the perfect definition for the dictionary when it comes to stupidity and ignorance combined.
You don't realise people laugh at you because you are unlearned enough to not know when someone is speaking correctly concerning the things of faith and God. However doesn't excuse your bad manners. Was that a lapse in your education or just your willfulness to do and say the wrong things about /and to others?
Sass I am not sure if people are laughing at my posts, but I can't hold a candle to you, the forum comic, whose nonsense knows no bounds. ;D ;D ;D
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Sass I am not sure if people are laughing at my posts, but I can't hold a candle to you, the forum comic, whose nonsense knows no bounds. ;D ;D ;D
You think that sensible? Not only do you give definition to ignorance and stupidity combined we can now add deluded too.
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You think that sensible? Not only do you give definition to ignorance and stupidity combined we can now add deluded too.
My dear I am an infant compared to you where ignorance and stupidity are concerned, you must have higher degrees in those 'virtues'. ;D ;D ;D
Anyway getting back to the topic, if I was naked the population of earth would be heading off to Mars in a great hurry, the sight being too appalling. ;D
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Being naked isn't evil after all we have to be naked for a bath. It is the way man looks upon nakedness.
It is what he perceives in his heart due to it.
I don't think it's just his heart that's affected... ;)
ht
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I don't think it's just his heart that's affected... ;)
ht
Would a fig leaf just above cover the effect? :o ;D
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Would a fig leaf just above cover the effect? :o ;D
It would have to be a *large* fig leaf ;)
ht
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It would have to be a *large* fig leaf ;)
ht
I wondered how long it would be before someone of the male gender made that comment! ;D ;D ;D
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I wondered how long it would be before someone of the male gender made that comment! ;D ;D ;D
I can only speak for myself, of course...
ht
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My dear I am an infant compared to you where ignorance and stupidity are concerned, you must have higher degrees in those 'virtues'. ;D ;D ;D
How stupid can you get... higher degrees and calling them virtues all that you write just keeps proving my point... :o
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How stupid can you get... higher degrees and calling them virtues all that you write just keeps proving my point... :o
;D ;D ;D
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I suppose the problem is the context of such nudity. For instance, is it sensible (even if not 'wrong') to send pictures of intimate parts of one's body to other people? Just think of the damage to people we regularly hear about that such action can create.
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Khatru, what was the difference in A & E between before and after their eating the apple?
They gained knowledge of what was good/evil?
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Hi everyone,
We have evolved beyond the animal stage and developed attributes of higher thinking, sense of universality, humanitarian aspects, altruism, orderliness, love of beauty...and so on.
We have also developed some other traits that take us further away from the animal mind. We have a sense of disgust and revulsion which other animals don't have. Our revulsion at our own naked body, our own excreta, blood, saliva, urine, body hair and so on. Our disgust at any dead body.
All these are traits that subconsciously make us aware of the mundane and gross nature of the body and the need to move beyond it. Its a natural mindset that automatically surfaces to pull us towards higher characteristics.
IMO, its all part of spiritual evolution and the natural thrust to move away from animal traits.
Cheers.
Sriram
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Our revulsion at our own naked body......
Really? You find your own body revolting?
Don't have such a downer on yourself. Give yourself a big hug.
Take care,
Stephen
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Really? You find your own body revolting?
Don't have such a downer on yourself. Give yourself a big hug.
Take care,
Stephen
Believe me...I do! Only that I don't think of myself as the body. I love my body the same way I love my car....I take good care of it....but I am not that!
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They gained knowledge of what was good/evil?
Partly, but they also became self-aware. Whilst self-awareness isn't bad in and of itself, it can sometimes lead to some pretty horrendous outcomes - for instance, individuals starving and harming themselves because of perceived flaws in themselves and other body-image issues.
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You would be the perfect definition for the dictionary when it comes to stupidity and ignorance combined.
You don't realise people laugh at you because you are unlearned enough to not know when someone is speaking correctly concerning the things of faith and God. However doesn't excuse your bad manners. Was that a lapse in your education or just your willfulness to do and say the wrong things about /and to others?
So you insult Floo and then you accuse her of bad manners. I think you really need to examine your attitude.
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We have evolved beyond the animal stage and developed attributes of higher thinking, sense of universality, humanitarian aspects, altruism, orderliness, love of beauty...and so on.
At least you didn't include humility in this list.
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Partly, but they also became self-aware. Whilst self-awareness isn't bad in and of itself, it can sometimes lead to some pretty horrendous outcomes - for instance, individuals starving and harming themselves because of perceived flaws in themselves and other body-image issues.
So they became aware of their nakedness and decided it best to cover up. Seems to me it was a bad thing to be naked.
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So they became aware of their nakedness and decided it best to cover up. Seems to me it was a bad thing to be naked.
All part of the campaign by the Abrahamic sects to use sexuality as source of guilt and shame and hence exercise control over their adherents.
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I suppose the problem is the context of such nudity. For instance, is it sensible (even if not 'wrong') to send pictures of intimate parts of one's body to other people? Just think of the damage to people we regularly hear about that such action can create.
That is true. I heard a few months ago about a 14 year old boy who texted a picture of his bits to his girlfriend: she then put the picture on youtube and the upshot is he is now on the Sex Offenders' Register! I think that is quite unjust but goes to show what damage can be done by such stupid actions.
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hmm ... stupid actions .. or stupid laws?
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It's the histrionic paedo-paranoia behind the laws that's at fault there, not the action, which is something that youngsters have been doing directly without a phone involved since the year dot.
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I suppose the problem is the context of such nudity. For instance, is it sensible (even if not 'wrong') to send pictures of intimate parts of one's body to other people? Just think of the damage to people we regularly hear about that such action can create.
The problem is social media. It used to be far harder to send everyone on your friend list a collection of mucky Polaroids.
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hmm ... stupid actions .. or stupid laws?
Both in the case I mentioned but the boy is only 14 and putting him on the Sex Offenders' Register after doing something so stupid is far too strong a punishment in my view. I don't know whether he will come off it after a while, I hope so. The girl was wrong too, putting the picture on youtube but a strong rap over the knuckles and some community service would have been a more appropriate punishment.