Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: Bubbles on April 19, 2016, 07:27:48 AM
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Seriously?
Fury as archbishop says domestic violence is caused by women 'not obeying men'
There are times the attitudes in religion are just so....so ...prejudiced, judgemental and basically crappy. :o
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/fury-archbishop-says-domestic-violence-7128881
I'm glad when I read something like this, I don't have an organised religion to follow along with its "issues" and single men who have no experience of family life making daft statements.
It's an arch bishop :o >:(
>:(
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Appalling, Rose. I can't help being glad the Archbishop is from ''abroad'', he wouldn't have the same attitude here (wouldn't dare).
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Seriously?
Fury as archbishop says domestic violence is caused by women 'not obeying men'
There are times the attitudes in religion are just so....so ...prejudiced, judgemental and basically crappy. :o
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/fury-archbishop-says-domestic-violence-7128881
I'm glad when I read something like this, I don't have an organised religion to follow along with its "issues" and single men who have no experience of family life making daft statements.
It's an arch bishop :o >:(
>:(
Let's see what comment, if any, is forthcoming from the Pope.
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Given this happened in January I think we'd know by now if he had anything to say.
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Yes, this is very old news, I didn't notice the date when I first looked.
I don't think the Pope has spoken about this particular outburst from the Spanish Archbish but he has spoken generally against domestic abuse.
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The Pope should kick this nasty dog turd out of the RCC. >:(
Sadly there are still some men, even in the UK, who think their wives should obey them. My husband would be swinging by his dangly bits from the nearest church steeple if he expected me to kowtow to him. We have a relationship of equals.
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The Pope should kick this nasty dog turd out of the RCC. >:(
Sadly there are still some men, even in the UK, who think their wives should obey them. My husband would be swinging by his dangly bits from the nearest church steeple if he expected me to kowtow to him. We have a relationship of equals.
Somehow I had you down as the boss ;)
Probably mostly because in posts I have the impression , you have to support him a fair bit.
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Somehow I had you down as the boss ;)
Probably mostly because in posts I have the impression , you have to support him a fair bit.
Now that is very funny! ;D Even with half a brain my husband is still light years brighter than me. He does his own thing as far as he is able, and it takes a heck of a lot for him to concede that occasionally I know best. ;D
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Certainly sound bad but .... the article says he said 'The majority of cases of domestic violence happen because the woman’s partner does not accept them, or rejects them for not accepting their demands.' so could he just have been, somewhat clumsily perhaps, highlighting the thinking of the people carrying out the domestic violence rather than his own thinking? Did he actually say women should obey their husbands? When very little of what he says is quoted it is hard to tell if a 'spin' has been put on it.
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Seriously?
Fury as archbishop says domestic violence is caused by women 'not obeying men'
What do yu expect from a Roman Catholic Arch-bish? ;) :(
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A lot more Hope, at least I do! It was an extremely clumsy, stupid statement and he should have known better. However Catholics don't generally go around talking about men being the head of the household, that really is old hat.
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A lot more Hope, at least I do! It was an extremely clumsy, stupid statement and he should have known better. However Catholics don't generally go around talking about men being the head of the household, that really is old hat.
Brownie, my comment was spmewhat tongue in cheek - indicated, I hoped, by the emojos I used.
I often wonder whether this kind of comment has more to do with a place's cultural heritage, as opposed to necessarily its religious history. I accept that the two go together, but often cultural influences can, at the very least, bubble away under any religious tradition. After all, it would seem that women had almost as much influence on and responsibility in the early church as men, and it was only after other influences began to have an impact on it that women seem to have lost their roles.
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I wondered the same myself Hope but I don't think Spain is especially patriarchal, women from Spain seem to be as emancipated as us - or maybe I've only known those that are :D. Whatever, the stupid Archbish obviously didn't know what he was talking about and someone in his position should have his ear to the ground, it goes with the job. I realise he could have been misquoted or quoted out of context, in which case he'll learn to be more careful.
Women feel very strongly about statements such as that one.
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Seriously?
Fury as archbishop says domestic violence is caused by women 'not obeying men'
There are times the attitudes in religion are just so....so ...prejudiced, judgemental and basically crappy. :o
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/fury-archbishop-says-domestic-violence-7128881
I'm glad when I read something like this, I don't have an organised religion to follow along with its "issues" and single men who have no experience of family life making daft statements.
It's an arch bishop :o >:(
>:(
Good grief give me strength now Rose takes notice of the Roman Catholic Church and the originators of the man of sin.
When you vote to stay in Europe the RC church WILL BE the official church of Europe trust me it is done and dusted.
~TW~
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Good grief give me strength now Rose takes notice of the Roman Catholic Church and the originators of the man of sin.
When you vote to stay in Europe the RC church WILL BE the official church of Europe trust me it is done and dusted.
~TW~
:-\
Eh?
Originators of the man of sin?
What are you on about ~TW~?
Why would the Catholic Church be the official church?
They might wish it, but there are points of tension
Some of the more recent events in the relationship have been;
A disagreement over whether to include a reference to Europe's Christian heritage in the European Constitution[4]
The European Parliament refused to ratify Rocco Buttiglione as a European Commissioner because he backed the Catholic Church's view on homosexuality[5]
The European Union endorsed the Sandbaek Report, increasing funding for abortion[6]
The funding of stem cell research by the European Union[7]
The European Parliament passed a motion[8] calling for the compulsory recognition of same-sex unions across the whole of the European Union[9]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_See–European_Union_relations
I don't think they would pander to Catholic thought on a lot of issues.
It won't happen IMO.
I also don't think there is the support for the Catholic Church across the whole of Europe.
Do you think that because of some theory based on revelation in the bible about end times etc?
Because I don't see any evidence of the Catholoic church being made the official church of Europe.
Why do I suspect you think the Pope is the anti Christ or something?
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Women feel very strongly about statements such as that one.
I think you'll find quite a few men do too.
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Well we are already in the EU and so far the only 'official' church we have here is the CofE and that has limited influence. The Spanish have a mixed attitude towards the Catholic church and in many ways were ahead of us regarding attitudes towards gay people (aaargh! The H word again!), having civil partnerships before we did. No this Archbish, if he really meant what he said the way we have taken it, is definitely behind the times. Rhiannon says quite rightly that men generally don't feel that way either so I don't know where he was coming from. Mad person >:(.
(Edited for typos)
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Well not a problem just when you are ready sort out the washing up.
~TW~
ps and put the kettle on oh and a biscuit. :)
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TW: .."put the kettle on"
It wouldn't suit me.
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Evenin' all.
What is the Mirror's source? Was there a Mirror reporter listening to the sermon?
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Appalling, Rose. I can't help being glad the Archbishop is from ''abroad'', he wouldn't have the same attitude here (wouldn't dare).
Does he think that homosexuality can be 'cured' by drinking beetroot juice as well? (Or maybe that was his remedy for aids).
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Well we are already in the EU and so far the only 'official' church we have here is the CofE and that has limited influence. The Spanish have a mixed attitude towards the Catholic church and in many ways were ahead of us regarding attitudes towards gay people (aaargh! The H word again!), having civil partnerships before we did. No this Archbish, if he really meant what he said the way we have taken it, is definitely behind the times. Rhiannon says quite rightly that men generally don't feel that way either so I don't know where he was coming from. Mad person >:(.
(Edited for typos)
You mentioned the "H" word Brownie; who obeys who in a "G" household, shows how silly the women obeying men thingy is.
It seems to me my wife has so much on me, along with the dates plus the time of the offence to the millisecond and the colour of the shirt I had on that day, it's best if I do as I'm told.
ippy
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I wondered the same myself Hope but I don't think Spain is especially patriarchal, women from Spain seem to be as emancipated as us - or maybe I've only known those that are :D. Whatever, the stupid Archbish obviously didn't know what he was talking about and someone in his position should have his ear to the ground, it goes with the job. I realise he could have been misquoted or quoted out of context, in which case he'll learn to be more careful.
Women feel very strongly about statements such as that one.
Oh, I see, he's Spanish. Some very dramatic things have happened in Spanish society since the death of Franco, with a whoosh of liberal values and practices taking the country by storm. I suppose that this may have caused those people (esp. clerics) of a more traditional bent to dig their heels in even more, and to come out with statements which sound positively prehistoric.
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I sincerely hope not Dicks. I suppose we'd have to live there to know if what he said is 'typical'. Cue Leonard!
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I sincerely hope not Dicks. I suppose we'd have to live there to know if what he said is 'typical'. Cue Leonard!
From my experience of the Spanish people (30 years) the change since Franco has been enormous in this respect. However, as in most countries, there are still antiquated ideas in some quarters.
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Certainly sound bad but .... the article says he said 'The majority of cases of domestic violence happen because the woman’s partner does not accept them, or rejects them for not accepting their demands.' so could he just have been, somewhat clumsily perhaps, highlighting the thinking of the people carrying out the domestic violence rather than his own thinking? Did he actually say women should obey their husbands? When very little of what he says is quoted it is hard to tell if a 'spin' has been put on it.
What about domestic violence committed by women against children? Are they not the majority of cases of domestic violence"?
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I found this on the SaveLives site:
Key statistics about domestic abuse in England and Wales
Each year around 2.1m people suffer some form of domestic abuse - 1.4 million women (8.5% of the population) and 700,000 men (4.5% of the population) 2
Each year more than 100,000 people in the UK are at high and imminent risk of being murdered or seriously injured as a result of domestic abuse 3
Women are much more likely than men to be the victims of high risk or severe domestic abuse: 95% of those going to Marac or accessing an Idva service are women 4,
In 2013-14 the police recorded 887,000 domestic abuse incidents in England and Wales 2
Seven women a month are killed by a current or former partner in England and Wales 2
130,000 children live in homes where there is high-risk domestic abuse 3
62% of children living with domestic abuse are directly harmed by the perpetrator of the abuse, in addition to the harm caused by witnessing the abuse of others 1
On average high-risk victims live with domestic abuse for 2.6 years before getting help4
85% of victims sought help five times on average from professionals in the year before they got effective help to stop the abuse
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There is plenty more information. The thing with children is that they often don't report abuse.
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What about domestic violence committed by women against children? Are they not the majority of cases of domestic violence"?
Where do you get the evidence to support that statement?
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I was surprised by that too, floo. I can't imagine women generally being violent to children though the odd case gets into the paper sometimes, usually something really dreadful, but then it is frequently a couple who have abused the child, not a woman on her own.
Still it does happen, there are women in the world who are bitter and cannot control their tempers. However not ''most'' as Humph suggests.
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I was surprised by that too, floo. I can't imagine women generally being violent to children though the odd case gets into the paper sometimes, usually something really dreadful, but then it is frequently a couple who have abused the child, not a woman on her own.
Still it does happen, there are women in the world who are bitter and cannot control their tempers. However not ''most'' as Humph suggests.
Yes women can be violent to kids, but much more often it is the male of the species, imo.
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I agree or else a woman under the influence of a man.
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Provocation by women, when the list of jobs wanting to be done around the house has been completed, why is there allways another one, Aaaaaggggg!!!!
Ippy
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Because there always is another job, ippy, and anyway everything is your fault, is it not? ;)
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Seriously?
Fury as archbishop says domestic violence is caused by women 'not obeying men'
I expect that is true for quite a lot of domestic violence. I don't see how that excuses the violence though.
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Because there always is another job, ippy, and anyway everything is your fault, is it not? ;)
There you are you've just demonstrated my point, I'm begining to think this sort of thing is a cooperative world wide conspiricy by women, the evidence lies in the consistancy of reported cases, you speak to any man, mind you I still try to keep smiling, sombody has to carry on in spite of all the hardship and dedicated time we spend trying to do our best.
Is that enough Brownie?
ippy
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Onwards and upwards ippy.
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Onwards and upwards ippy.
One is allways humble.
ippy
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Evenin' all.
What is the Mirror's source? Was there a Mirror reporter listening to the sermon?
Anyone?
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What about domestic violence committed by women against children? Are they not the majority of cases of domestic violence"?
No idea. Why was that asked whilst quoting my post?
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Anyone?
How would we know - we weren't there. I did allude to this in my earlier post - could all be spin in the reporting.
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What about domestic violence committed by women against children? Are they not the majority of cases of domestic violence"?
Is that form of abuse deemed 'domestic', Humph? Isn't it termed 'child' abuse? However, I think I know where you're coming from. Is 'child abuse' by family members a subset of 'domestic abuse'?
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Good grief give me strength now Rose takes notice of the Roman Catholic Church and the originators of the man of sin.
When you vote to stay in Europe the RC church WILL BE the official church of Europe trust me it is done and dusted.
~TW~
I had already told people that the RC will be the official church of Europe and it is a done deal.
No one believed me and now you suddenly step up and say the same thing. Can't remember you backing me when I said it.
So the end is coming but who the flippin heck is ready...
Politics & Current Affairs / Re: The news lately...
« by Sassy on September 07, 2015, 12:35:01 PM »
...... everything going on in the world, I believe the european union and the government believe that if they ............ from others they will be able to make all the unions one in government and money system. Making the ............ one union. It is scary when you think that is the perfect ............ Anti-Christ to arise. Religion becoming a thing of the past when voting they get rid of it. Taking ............ Roman Catholic Church in saying they will be the Church of the Union ............ this and regret it later when their own freedom of belief is removed. When you follow the person in ............ and you follow the will only of that person. That person making himself out to be ............ a God by action and prayer. Do you see the signs of the times... King James Bible And he had power ............ give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should ............ cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. Could such a thing ............ choose? To die or to live and worship the image of the beast? I know most do not take anything ............ for it to recover. Quote Currencies yielded European Currency Unit Austrian schilling Belgian franc ............ Spanish peseta Vatican lira Currencies which remain... Quote British pound sterling (incl. ............ leu Swedish krona We make small steps to that union of a money system. But there is only one way to ............ the reality of what is to happen and that is to make Jesus ............ in Jesus will die before accepting the mark of the Beast or worshipping the beast. Read ............ Euro can make life easier if you visit the rest of Europe. It's a pain if you have to keep changing ............ costs, converting it all. No one in Europe is forcing people to give up religion, people have the ......
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I expect that is true for quite a lot of domestic violence. I don't see how that excuses the violence though.
I get your point, Jeremy, but a lot of domestic violence happens in so-called relationships where the victim does anything to keep the perpetrator happy (quite literally does obey), but the abuser just keeps moving the goalposts.
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I had already told people that the RC will be the official church of Europe and it is a done deal.
No one believed me and now you suddenly step up and say the same thing. Can't remember you backing me when I said it.
So the end is coming but who the flippin heck is ready...
What the heck has the RCC got to do with whether we stay in the EU? DUH!
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Good grief give me strength now Rose takes notice of the Roman Catholic Church and the originators of the man of sin.
When you vote to stay in Europe the RC church WILL BE the official church of Europe trust me it is done and dusted.
~TW~
Whether or not we remain in Europe, the C of E will remain the official church.
Well, until it is dis-established by the people of this country.
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Yes I think so too. France and Belgium, though they have more Catholics than over here, are secular governments. I don't follow how the Catholic Church can be the ''official church'' over so many countries where the majority of people don't adhere to it (it is losing membership everywhere anyway, with many churches closing), or any other church for that matter. The EU has to be secular, were it otherwise it would not be truly representative of EU countries. No-one would stand for it, history shows that religion and politics don't mix.
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Whether or not we remain in Europe, the C of E will remain the official church.
Well, until it is dis-established by the people of this country.
So, perhaps its time that people joined with the church to press for that, Khatru. There have been a number of attempts over my lifetime from within the church, especially the clergy, to that end. Whenever it gets beyond an internal discussion, it seemss to become unstuck in secular politrics, in the same way that attempts to update things like the Book of Common Prayer have been turned down by Parliament.
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So, perhaps its time that people joined with the church to press for that, Khatru. There have been a number of attempts over my lifetime from within the church, especially the clergy, to that end. Whenever it gets beyond an internal discussion, it seemss to become unstuck in secular politrics, in the same way that attempts to update things like the Book of Common Prayer have been turned down by Parliament.
Religion and politics are not good bedfellows, imo.
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What the heck has the RCC got to do with whether we stay in the EU? DUH!
Read the flippin post. It is about what the EU really stands for.
Had you known any prophecies from the 7o;s or even 60's you would know the EU and the one currency were foretold.
That you have no idea of a book you have claimed to read is becoming more and more apparent.
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Whether or not we remain in Europe, the C of E will remain the official church.
Well, until it is dis-established by the people of this country.
You have not idea about the difference between the powerful Church/People of God and the establishments...do you?
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Read the flippin post. It is about what the EU really stands for.
Had you known any prophecies from the 7o;s or even 60's you would know the EU and the one currency were foretold.
That you have no idea of a book you have claimed to read is becoming more and more apparent.
That is NOT what the EU stands for. It is you who makes up what is in the Bible, and what it means as you go along.
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There's an EU thread - for/against - in the Politics section. People are divided on the subject, naturally enough. We can only live in hope!
Regarding domestic violence, I certainly believe that women and children have more protection, equality and therefore a bigger voice than used to be the case, due to the ECHR (which is not the EU but never mind, we 'go off' all the time).
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That is NOT what the EU stands for. It is you who makes up what is in the Bible, and what it means as you go along.
Again you haven't a clue I was responding to the post of another,. And as usual you who knows nothing cannot follow the thread because you haven't flippin read it,.
NO ONE SAID THAT EU STOOD FOR ANYTHING.... WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE ELSE WROTE AND HOW IT WOULD AFFECT THE EU THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TO BE EXACT. IF YOU ARE NOT BOTHERING TO READ THE POSTS DON'T REPLY BECAUSE EVERYONE IS TOO POLITE TO TELL YOU HOW IGNORANT YOU MAKE YOURSELF LOOK. NOW I AM DEFINITELY GOING TO STOP REPLYING TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT EDUCATED ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY KNOW YOU HAVE TO READ THINGS TO BE ABLE TO FOLLOW THE THREAD. NOW GO READ AND STOP REPLYING HALF INFORMED
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There's an EU thread - for/against - in the Politics section. People are divided on the subject, naturally enough. We can only live in hope!
Regarding domestic violence, I certainly believe that women and children have more protection, equality and therefore a bigger voice than used to be the case, due to the ECHR (which is not the EU but never mind, we 'go off' all the time).
How many women on this thread have suffered domestic violence and how many men on this thread have been the offender when it comes to domestic violence in the home?
It would be interesting to know who are speaking from experience....
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Again you haven't a clue I was responding to the post of another,. And as usual you who knows nothing cannot follow the thread because you haven't flippin read it,.
NO ONE SAID THAT EU STOOD FOR ANYTHING.... WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE ELSE WROTE AND HOW IT WOULD AFFECT THE EU THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TO BE EXACT. IF YOU ARE NOT BOTHERING TO READ THE POSTS DON'T REPLY BECAUSE EVERYONE IS TOO POLITE TO TELL YOU HOW IGNORANT YOU MAKE YOURSELF LOOK. NOW I AM DEFINITELY GOING TO STOP REPLYING TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT EDUCATED ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY KNOW YOU HAVE TO READ THINGS TO BE ABLE TO FOLLOW THE THREAD. NOW GO READ AND STOP REPLYING HALF INFORMED
Oh dear poor Sass, untwist your knickers before you do yourself a mischief, LOL.
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I get your point, Jeremy, but a lot of domestic violence happens in so-called relationships where the victim does anything to keep the perpetrator happy (quite literally does obey), but the abuser just keeps moving the goalposts.
The point I was trying to make (perhaps not very well) is that "not obeying" is not an acceptable excuse for committing violence whatever the circumstances. IT's all very well to say "it was caused by not obeying her husband" and that is technically true, but it is not acceptable. The AB of C was indulging in victim blaming as far as I can see.
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The point I was trying to make (perhaps not very well) is that "not obeying" is not an acceptable excuse for committing violence whatever the circumstances. IT's all very well to say "it was caused by not obeying her husband" and that is technically true, but it is not acceptable. The AB of C was indulging in victim blaming as far as I can see.
No, I did get your point, Jeremy. I think if we try to continue the conversation we'll still be at cross purposes though. Not to worry.
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It's doubtful anyone on here has been the victim of domestic violence or dished it out but if there is someone, they aren't likely to say so on a public forum.
I don't mind saying it hasn't happened to me nor have I committed the offence.
Going back to what Hope said, it probably would be a good idea for more of us to campaign for the disestablishment of the CofE but the way it is now and has been for many years, it doesn't intrude into our lives as it did in days gone by. It's quite a benign establishment and cares for everyone in England, Christian or not, so it doesn't worry most of us. The Anglican church in other countries has more to say - maybe they shouldn't be under the same banner - and we will speak against that, but as it's not here we tend to be a bit lazy when it comes to actually doing anything. I must admit I have nothing against the Cof E in England, it bothers me not a bit and am sure I'd feel the same were I a Hindu.
Does the Church of England state in its rules that a woman must obey a man? I think not though the scriptures seem to indicate that, as Christ is head of the Church, a husband is the head of the household - but who enforces that nowadays?
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It's doubtful anyone on here has been the victim of domestic violence or dished it out but if there is someone, they aren't likely to say so on a public forum.
I don't mind saying it hasn't happened to me nor have I committed the offence.
Going back to what Hope said, it probably would be a good idea for more of us to campaign for the disestablishment of the CofE but the way it is now and has been for many years, it doesn't intrude into our lives as it did in days gone by. It's quite a benign establishment and cares for everyone in England, Christian or not, so it doesn't worry most of us. The Anglican church in other countries has more to say - maybe they shouldn't be under the same banner - and we will speak against that, but as it's not here we tend to be a bit lazy when it comes to actually doing anything. I must admit I have nothing against the Cof E in England, it bothers me not a bit and am sure I'd feel the same were I a Hindu.
Does the Church of England state in its rules that a woman must obey a man? I think not though the scriptures seem to indicate that, as Christ is head of the Church, a husband is the head of the household - but who enforces that nowadays?
I can't think why I would want to bark out orders at my wife, there isn't much of her, she's virtically challenged and when I think of where she would hit me if I did try to give her an order, it wouldn't be a very good idea on my part.
I understand there are violent people about that hit their partners, a bit difficult to understand if you're not inclined that way, I believe steroids are inclined to make those that take them for muscle building a lot more violent than they would normaly be.
Perhaps it could be men that have a naturally large amount of testosterone are a part of the picture.
I don't like to think about the side effects of taking seteroids too much, it sounds both bone cracking and eye watering to me, but then some of us don't necessarily have to go there, far be it for me_____
ippy
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;D You are funny ippy, I always know I will finish reading one of your posts with a smile on my face. Everyone should have an ippy in their life. Your small wife is a lucky woman.
Anabolic steroids, such as those used by body builders, do cause irrational behaviour and outbursts. Pointless, far better to be puny I would have thought.
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How would we know - we weren't there. I did allude to this in my earlier post - could all be spin in the reporting.
Yeh, could be. Funny how some people are happy to get stuck into the bishop chappie without checking that the report is correct (it may be).
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Yeh, could be. Funny how some people are happy to get stuck into the bishop chappie without checking that the report is correct (it may be).
Who would pass up a chance to bash the bishop?
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It's doubtful anyone on here has been the victim of domestic violence or dished it out but if there is someone, they aren't likely to say so on a public forum.
I don't mind saying it hasn't happened to me nor have I committed the offence.
Going back to what Hope said, it probably would be a good idea for more of us to campaign for the disestablishment of the CofE but the way it is now and has been for many years, it doesn't intrude into our lives as it did in days gone by. It's quite a benign establishment and cares for everyone in England, Christian or not, so it doesn't worry most of us. The Anglican church in other countries has more to say - maybe they shouldn't be under the same banner - and we will speak against that, but as it's not here we tend to be a bit lazy when it comes to actually doing anything. I must admit I have nothing against the Cof E in England, it bothers me not a bit and am sure I'd feel the same were I a Hindu.
Does the Church of England state in its rules that a woman must obey a man? I think not though the scriptures seem to indicate that, as Christ is head of the Church, a husband is the head of the household - but who enforces that nowadays?
How quick you forget...
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Please tell me what I have forgotten Sassy? I am not CofE but have not known of any Anglicans who believe a woman should obey a man. I have known Christians, who are not Anglican, who believe a man is head of the household and some do defer to their husbands. With other couples, they defer to eachother as different situations arise.
When I married, we both promised to love, honour and cherish.
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Going back to what Hope said, it probably would be a good idea for more of us to campaign for the disestablishment of the CofE but the way it is now and has been for many years, it doesn't intrude into our lives as it did in days gone by. It's quite a benign establishment and cares for everyone in England, Christian or not, so it doesn't worry most of us. The Anglican church in other countries has more to say - maybe they shouldn't be under the same banner - and we will speak against that, but as it's not here we tend to be a bit lazy when it comes to actually doing anything. I must admit I have nothing against the Cof E in England, it bothers me not a bit and am sure I'd feel the same were I a Hindu.
Does the Church of England state in its rules that a woman must obey a man? I think not though the scriptures seem to indicate that, as Christ is head of the Church, a husband is the head of the household - but who enforces that nowadays?
How quick you forget...
Belief in the literal truth of the Bible is responsible for much evil, in the past and even to the present day. Treating women as underlings is crazy, and most Christians wouldn't subscribe to that garbage, but of course there are always some saddos who would.
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;D You are funny ippy, I always know I will finish reading one of your posts with a smile on my face. Everyone should have an ippy in their life. Your small wife is a lucky woman.
Anabolic steroids, such as those used by body builders, do cause irrational behaviour and outbursts. Pointless, far better to be puny I would have thought.
You know Brownie, that's what I keep telling her, through the letter box and with my running shoes on.
ippy
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I'm not surprised you are running from her ippy if you console her that it's OK to be puny ;) :D.
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Please tell me what I have forgotten Sassy? I am not CofE but have not known of any Anglicans who believe a woman should obey a man. I have known Christians, who are not Anglican, who believe a man is head of the household and some do defer to their husbands. With other couples, they defer to eachother as different situations arise.
When I married, we both promised to love, honour and cherish.
It's doubtful anyone on here has been the victim of domestic violence or dished it out but if there is someone, they aren't likely to say so on a public forum.
I don't mind saying it hasn't happened to me nor have I committed the offence.
How quickly you forget...
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I wish you'd tell me what I've forgotten Sass.
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Seriously?
Fury as archbishop says domestic violence is caused by women 'not obeying men'
There are times the attitudes in religion are just so....so ...prejudiced, judgemental and basically crappy. :o
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/fury-archbishop-says-domestic-violence-7128881
I'm glad when I read something like this, I don't have an organised religion to follow along with its "issues" and single men who have no experience of family life making daft statements.
It's an arch bishop :o >:(
>:(
Domestic violence is no different from any other type of bullying.
It could be either partner who is attacking the good order and good health of the other. It's just an unpleasent fact of life that one partner wants to dominate the other. It starts with attacking the emotional strength of the other without being too honest about it. Winding them up and forcing aggression down the others throat until they are worn out emotionally and can put up no resistance. It's easy to work this out when you have seen bullying up close and personal.
The bit that intrigues me is that it appears to be the same mechanics we inflict on our own genetics. We clean the car on a Sunday...make sure it is serviced regularly, we paint our homes and fill them with fine adornments but we ignore the good order of our own inner being. When our genetics have had enough, may I suggest, they too start going wild and uncontrollable, malfunctioning in absurd ways and pass on this genetic pattern to other tired body cells...just a thought.
I can offer a cure all in both instances but I'm afraid Jesus Christ is involved as well.
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Seriously?
Fury as archbishop says domestic violence is caused by women 'not obeying men'
There are times the attitudes in religion are just so....so ...prejudiced, judgemental and basically crappy. :o
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/fury-archbishop-says-domestic-violence-7128881
I'm glad when I read something like this, I don't have an organised religion to follow along with its "issues" and single men who have no experience of family life making daft statements.
It's an arch bishop :o >:(
>:(
Is this bloke still alive?
ippy
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Domestic violence is no different from any other type of bullying.
It could be either partner who is attacking the good order and good health of the other. It's just an unpleasent fact of life that one partner wants to dominate the other. It starts with attacking the emotional strength of the other without being too honest about it. Winding them up and forcing aggression down the others throat until they are worn out emotionally and can put up no resistance. It's easy to work this out when you have seen bullying up close and personal.
The bit that intrigues me is that it appears to be the same mechanics we inflict on our own genetics. We clean the car on a Sunday...make sure it is serviced regularly, we paint our homes and fill them with fine adornments but we ignore the good order of our own inner being. When our genetics have had enough, may I suggest, they too start going wild and uncontrollable, malfunctioning in absurd ways and pass on this genetic pattern to other tired body cells...just a thought.
I can offer a cure all in both instances but I'm afraid Jesus Christ is involved as well.
If Jesus Christ is the cure he's a bit (insert expletive of your choice) late - a cure has been needed for centuries and he has been sittting on his hands on the right hand of God and neither of them has lifted finger! Your answer above is about as patronising of the victims of domestic violence as it is possible to imagine!
Tell any victim of domestic violence, female or male, that Jesus Christ is the answer and you are likely to get, at the very least, the tongue lashing that you so richly deserve.
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If Jesus Christ is the cure he's a bit (insert expletive of your choice) late - a cure has been needed for centuries and he has been sittting on his hands on the right hand of God and neither of them has lifted finger! Your answer above is about as patronising of the victims of domestic violence as it is possible to imagine!
Tell any victim of domestic violence, female or male, that Jesus Christ is the answer and you are likely to get, at the very least, the tongue lashing that you so richly deserve.
Which bit don't you like Owlswing...is it the bit where a perfectly logical explanation is attributed to a nasty and serious condition that displays itself in two branches of human failing or is it that Jesus Christ died and was resurrected 2000 years ago to teach you about oppression and you didn't give a damn.
Upbuilding an electric resistance is a very serious business but you have a greater voice in condemning it than you do about exploring its scientific nature just as your best scientists ignore it.
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Which bit don't you like Owlswing...is it the bit where a perfectly logical explanation is attributed to a nasty and serious condition that displays itself in two branches of human failing or is it that Jesus Christ died and was resurrected 2000 years ago to teach you about oppression and you didn't give a damn.
Jesus Christ is a Johnny-come-lately in the deity stakes - mine pre-date him and his father by as much as 25,000 years.
You said that Jesus Christ was part of your answer to domestic violence.
This thread is about a Bishop of your Christian church who stated that women are subjected to domestic violence for "not obeying men", and you are saying that the eponymous leader of your church has sat around for 2,000 years allowing women to be subjected to domestic violence because they did "not obey men" and still claim the he is the cure.
If he was the cure he would never have allowed one of his bishops to make a statement like the one he did, except for the well-known misogyny of the clergy of the Christian church - the woman shall keep silent in church I think the words are.
Domestic violence is another indictment of your God's and his son's indifference to the suffering of those he would have get on their knees and thank him for his love them. You have to be the basest of submissives to love that kind of sadist.
Upbuilding an electric resistance is a very serious business but you have a greater voice in condemning it than you do about exploring its scientific nature just as your best scientists ignore it.
Do what?
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Jesus Christ is a Johnny-come-lately in the deity stakes - mine pre-date him and his father by as much as 25,000 years.
You said that Jesus Christ was part of your answer to domestic violence.
This thread is about a Bishop of your Christian church who stated that women are subjected to domestic violence for "not obeying men", and you are saying that the eponymous leader of your church has sat around for 2,000 years allowing women to be subjected to domestic violence because they did "not obey men" and still claim the he is the cure.
If he was the cure he would never have allowed one of his bishops to make a statement like the one he did, except for the well-known misogyny of the clergy of the Christian church - the woman shall keep silent in church I think the words are.
Domestic violence is another indictment of your God's and his son's indifference to the suffering of those he would have get on their knees and thank him for his love them. You have to be the basest of submissives to love that kind of sadist.
Do what?
Iniquity isn't the work of Jesus Christ it is the work of 1st century scammers who wanted a share of the booty they could gain including the machinations of a power hungry emperor. As for your gods having a longer history I suggest that eternity is a little longer.
Bishops making remarks that go against the spirit of Jesus' teaching identify them as rather fraudulent doesn't it.
If I have breathed new life in an old thread I am sorry..but resurrection is a bit like that.
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Domestic violence is no different from any other type of bullying.
It could be either partner who is attacking the good order and good health of the other. It's just an unpleasent fact of life that one partner wants to dominate the other. It starts with attacking the emotional strength of the other without being too honest about it. Winding them up and forcing aggression down the others throat until they are worn out emotionally and can put up no resistance. It's easy to work this out when you have seen bullying up close and personal.
The bit that intrigues me is that it appears to be the same mechanics we inflict on our own genetics. We clean the car on a Sunday...make sure it is serviced regularly, we paint our homes and fill them with fine adornments but we ignore the good order of our own inner being. When our genetics have had enough, may I suggest, they too start going wild and uncontrollable, malfunctioning in absurd ways and pass on this genetic pattern to other tired body cells...just a thought.
I can offer a cure all in both instances but I'm afraid Jesus Christ is involved as well.
People who follow Jesus perpetrate domestic violence too!
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People who follow Jesus perpetrate domestic violence too!
. . . and by attitudes like the Bishop's perpertuate it!
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People who follow Jesus perpetrate domestic violence too!
Not normally those who try to follow Jesus' accurate teaching because it breeds love, caring, understanding, patience and a desire for peace. Iniquity, on the other hand, doesn't.
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Not normally those who try to follow Jesus' accurate teaching because it breeds love, caring, understanding, patience and a desire for peace. Iniquity, on the other hand, doesn't.
Some of the behaviour attributed to Jesus in the gospels didn't display those virtues!
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Some of the behaviour attributed to Jesus in the gospels didn't display those virtues!
Jesus displayed righteousness throughout...the problem with righteousness is that it is perceived as hostile to those who refuse to be guided by it. They prefer an unstructured teaching which says do as you please and just like domestic violence it usually means dominating the hell out of others.
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Jesus displayed righteousness throughout...the problem with righteousness is that it is perceived as hostile to those who refuse to be guided by it. They prefer an unstructured teaching which says do as you please and just like domestic violence it usually means dominating the hell out of others.
Nicholas Marks - living, breathing proof of the maxim that "there are none so blind as those who will not see!" and that childhood indoctrination works.
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People who follow Jesus perpetrate domestic violence too!
Jeremiah 5:21...see Owlswing even you are quoting the Holy Bible at me now.
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Iniquity isn't the work of Jesus Christ
Iniquity was created by the Bible god.
He created perfect angels to be with him in heaven yet he found iniquity in Satan. It is said that the Bible god created everything so this would include the iniquity he put into Satan.
If I have breathed new life in an old thread I am sorry..but resurrection is a bit like that.
As we know, when it comes to being resurrected, Jesus Christ hold no monopoly and there are many more people who have come back from the dead.
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Jeremiah 5:21...see Owlswing even you are quoting the Holy Bible at me now.
Moderator: content removed. - I have posted before that I was brought up a Christian - Moderator: content removed - like you that made me give it up!
And remember - the Devil can quote scripture to his purpose! If he can I'm bloody sure that I can!
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Iniquity was created by the Bible god.
He created perfect angels to be with him in heaven yet he found iniquity in Satan. It is said that the Bible god created everything so this would include the iniquity he put into Satan.
As we know, when it comes to being resurrected, Jesus Christ hold no monopoly and there are many more people who have come back from the dead.
The politics in Heaven aren't our greatest concern at the moment...we have Satan down here to deal with and it appears he has quite a following. Our future revolves around the teaching in the Holy Bible...its not pretty for any of us but, we are assured that those who follow Jesus will have the only chance available for survival. If I'm wrong, and I'm not, then what has anyone lost other than gained a piece of Jesus' peace, with a strong chance of resurrection.
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Jesus displayed righteousness throughout...the problem with righteousness is that it is perceived as hostile to those who refuse to be guided by it. They prefer an unstructured teaching which says do as you please and just like domestic violence it usually means dominating the hell out of others.
Having temper tantrums where the fig tree and Temple were concerned, and playing silly exorcism hocus pocus resulting in the death of a lot of pigs, is righteousness is it?
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Depends how you do it.
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Having temper tantrums where the fig tree and Temple were concerned, and playing silly exorcism hocus pocus resulting in the death of a lot of pigs, is righteousness is it?
There are deeper spiritual points being made here...but you aren't able to cope with them...Floo.
If you have a spiritual existence then others do and before Jesus these could cause enormous problems...they still do in fact but righteousness can keep them at bay...providing we believe in Jesus as the exposer of things we are still unable to understand.
Those involved in domestic violence or any bullying will tell you that the bully acts as one possessed...and that is bad spiritual energy expressing itself.
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with a strong chance of resurrection.
So your god will slaughter every man, woman, child, baby and animal on this planet.
Lots of love there, eh?
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There are deeper spiritual points being made here...but you aren't able to cope with them...Floo.
If you have a spiritual existence then others do and before Jesus these could cause enormous problems...they still do in fact but righteousness can keep them at bay...providing we believe in Jesus as the exposer of things we are still unable to understand.
Those involved in domestic violence or any bullying will tell you that the bully acts as one possessed...and that is bad spiritual energy expressing itself.
Jesus had a temper, cursing a fig tree because he couldn't get any fruit of it out of season was just plain silly. Trashing the Temple was vandalism, the tax collectors were permitted to use the place. If he didn't like it, he should have complained to the Temple authorities. As for the incident with the pigs that was animal cruelty and inexcusable, especially as there is no evidence Jesus compensated the farmer for their loss. If you think any of that was righteous anger, it is an excuse for bad behaviour, imo.
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So your god will slaughter every man, woman, child, baby and animal on this planet.
Lots of love there, eh?
Without knowing your Holy Bible Khatru you are feeling your way in the dark. Certainly some will be saved and will form the righteous government so that there is no vacuum afterwards...but those that do read the Holy Bible know that inevitable death can also offer resurrection...providing we get Jesus' righteous teaching right.
If Almighty God had deliberately pointed Wormwood at us you might have a grievance but he didn't...it is simply an astronomical fact that he has warned those that can listen, obey, and follow Jesus Christ...about.
Matthew 24:21 says it best.
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we have Satan down here to deal with
What's he up to right now then Nick?
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What's he up to right now then Nick?
If you took instruction from the Holy Bible Seb you wouldn't need to ask that question. Wherever he is he is wheeling and dealing in evil and the black-hole from which he operates will be whirling and swirling pulling in all corruption and deceit so that the innocent and the righteous have no chance unless they are devout in their undertaking to resist him.
I have to tell you these things Seb because soon there will be no second chances...Soon, here, means no one knows the hour or the day, not even the son of man, only the father who is in Heaven.
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If you took instruction from the Holy Bible Seb you wouldn't need to ask that question. Wherever he is he is wheeling and dealing in evil and the black-hole from which he operates will be whirling and swirling pulling in all corruption and deceit so that the innocent and the righteous have no chance unless they are devout in their undertaking to resist him.
I have to tell you these things Seb because soon there will be no second chances...Soon, here, means no one knows the hour or the day, not even the son of man, only the father who is in Heaven.
So your God, loving Father to everyone on Earth, is going to sit on his Heavenly throne looking down at us pathetic humans gloating that we, poor idiots that we are, know what he has planned for us, as we have been told for centuries that the Devil operates on Earth only with God's permission as God is all powerful and therefore can stop Satan anytime he wishes. but we just don't know when and when he does unleash his Holocaust of Satanic Hell upon us, he is going to be laughing his sadistic socks off, gloating that "I told you so!!"
Some loving God! NOT!
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So your God, loving Father to everyone on Earth, is going to sit on his Heavenly throne looking down at us pathetic humans gloating that we, poor idiots that we are, know what he has planned for us, as we have been told for centuries that the Devil operates on Earth only with God's permission as God is all powerful and therefore can stop Satan anytime he wishes. but we just don't know when and when he does unleash his Holocaust of Satanic Hell upon us, he is going to be laughing his sadistic socks off, gloating that "I told you so!!"
Some loving God! NOT!
Everyone will have the same chance Owlswing...a natural great tribulation will hit planet Earth and you along with everyone else have been given exactly the same information to protect themselves by. We have had 2000 years to prepare. Some have, some haven't, bothered. Even now some will argue the toss whilst others will just comply...those that comply will have lost nothing...they already want peace, harmony, truth, honesty, good will, good order in their lives and, quite frankly, is only on offer via the Holy Bible. Other man-made groups use similar words but usually offer deceit, corruption and more of the same.
Now that is truly a loving God because he hasn't ignored our fate...he's just put strict conditions on it.
A loving God who taught us that those who bully others out of their emotional strength will be totally barred.
(for Maeght)
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Somewhat off topic I think.
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Now that is truly a loving God because he hasn't ignored our fate...he's just put strict conditions on it.
That just adds dictator to all his other faults.
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That just adds dictator to all his other faults.
Almighty God has never denied that he is a loving dictator. Iniquity has made him a soft, ineffective, non-existent push-over.
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Almighty God has never denied that he is a loving dictator. Iniquity has made him a soft, ineffective, non-existent push-over.
End of story. Iniquity has won!
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you along with everyone else have been given exactly the same information to protect themselves by.
Except for all those poor unfortunates who have not been given the information, who have not heard of Jesus. Did they slip your mind?
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Seb/Owlswing...
Afraid not...Almighty God is working to a plan. Why bother interfering in this chaos when Jesus already laid down the terms and conditions...Put on righteousness else don't expect to be saved. Remember...resurrection is in the mix...we just need faith...All those who have shown faith will enter into a new heavens and a new Earth whilst those that have no faith wont...that isn't Almighty God's or Jesus' fault, it is the fault of those that prefer to blaspheme righteousness instead of learning the righteous ways that will save them.
It has been shown how some have an obsession to dominate others...whether by individual bullying, or mass oppression, it is all the same to Almighty God...it is stealing the emotional strength of another, usually an innocent party, but when others get scientifically wise to that fact and the terrible impact it has on the good health of the people and their communities
everyone will know who to point the finger at, and clumsy lies and deceit will be no defence.
Its a bit like how Almighty God will view His Judgement...those that bully and oppress will have no excuse and Wormwood will be their future spiritual home.
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Moderator: content removed. - I have posted before that I was brought up a Christian - Moderator: content removed - like you that made me give it up!
And remember - the Devil can quote scripture to his purpose! If he can I'm bloody sure that I can!
Christians and Satan quote with understanding but Satan and you quote it to serve your own purposes and not the purpose of truth.
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So your god will slaughter every man, woman, child, baby and animal on this planet.
Lots of love there, eh?
God can bring back to life and give them life that never ends with no more suffering.
What can man do for those men, women and children, babies and animals they slaughtered on the planet?
You see Khartru, man is far more the aggressor and evil persons ever created because they can kill without any second thought that they cannot change what they destroy. Man acts without good reason but God never did.
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Moderator given the number of different derails on this thread, we will monitor it, and should it not return to the subject close the thread.
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The Archers storyline (BBC Radio 4) about a woman completely controlled by her psycho of a husband until she stabs him, unfortunately not fatally, with the knife he gave her to kill herself, has brought in much needed donations for women's refuges.
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. . . those who are feeling emotional oppression from any source should see their oppressor/s as evil and reach out for Jesus' accurate teaching.
I wonder just how many who have been, or are, feeling emotional oppression from any source have screamed out "JESUS CHRIST MAKE THIS STOP!"
How many have had this plea answered?
My bet is on a nice round figure - the second figure in the number 10!
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I wonder just how many who have been, or are, feeling emotional oppression from any source have screamed out "JESUS CHRIST MAKE THIS STOP!"
How many have had this plea answered?
My bet is on a nice round figure - the second figure in the number 10!
You just don't get it Owlswing...do you??
People get themselves into all sorts of messes because they ignore the first laws of caution. If you walk into a drugs den even without realising it evil influences aren't far away and you could be scarred for life. The bully has no fear for God, or Jesus, he just wants his/her own gratification...and in this setting the husband or wife just wants to create emotional turmoil for the other partner regardless of truth, honesty, respect, children, or good order. They are devoid of their own emotional strength and find it only too easy to drive their partner into the depths of despair to steal theirs.
All bullying works the same way...whether it is against a spouse, a child, administered by a school bully or a tyrant.
It is the emotional mechanics of a person when they have become cancerous in their emotions.
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You just don't get it Owlswing...do you??
People get themselves into all sorts of messes because they ignore the first laws of caution. If you walk into a drugs den even without realising it evil influences aren't far away and you could be scarred for life. The bully has no fear for God, or Jesus, he just wants his/her own gratification...and in this setting the husband or wife just wants to create emotional turmoil for the other partner regardless of truth, honesty, respect, children, or good order. They are devoid of their own emotional strength and find it only too easy to drive their partner into the depths of despair to steal theirs.
All bullying works the same way...whether it is against a spouse, a child, administered by a school bully or a tyrant.
It is the emotional mechanics of a person when they have become cancerous in their emotions.
You really are beyond belief!
So it is the woman's fault for marrying or being in a relationship with a vicious and dominating man.
The depth of your inhumanity truly astonishes me. Your views on this subject are contemptible.
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Moderator a number of posts have been split from this as being off topic, arguably a number more should have been. Please try and keep on topic
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You really are beyond belief!
So it is the qoman's fault for marrying or being in a relationship with a vicious and dominating man.
The depth of your inhumanity truly astonishes me. Your views on this subject are contemptible.
I don't think that's what I said Owlswing. What I was saying is that people find themselves in these situations because they ignore certain early symptoms like lies and deceit, aggression and arguing over nothing, being wound up until the victim is exhausted and unable to put up any resistance...at all.
Jesus Christ, who your bishop should be supporting, tells us something quite different to this...He says the wife should honour the husband and the husband honour the wife. If the wife was a Bible student she would know that kindness and harmony is well worth working towards and may even subconsciously be offering it but the bully isn't...they have a one track mind...they want to cause as much distress as possible.
Now we know what to look for in these bullying situations we can see the aggressor clearer and what their intentions really are...and not allowing ourselves to get so wound-up is the best action possible to offset the damage that is being inflicted in these situations...and I suggest that this is best achieved by following Jesus Christ.
I now realise a forum isn't the best place to put these ideas forward because, well, who wants to find a remedy for any type of bullying...so I will retire from this thread.
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Re: domestic violence is caused by women 'not obeying men
In reality a man has never needed a reason to beat his wife. For some reason most men think marrying a woman makes them their property.
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In reality a man has never needed a reason to beat his wife. For some reason most men think marrying a woman makes them their property.
Does your man see you this way?
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For some reason most men think marrying a woman makes them their property.
Most?
You have proof?
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Most?
You have proof?
see #115
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In reality a man has never needed a reason to beat his wife. For some reason most men think marrying a woman makes them their property.
I don't think most men see it that way, but certainly some do.
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Moderator further off topic posts have been removed