Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: Khatru on May 04, 2016, 01:06:57 PM
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Well, according to the Bible, the test of a prophet is clearly set out in Deuteronomy 18:22
"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
In other words if what's been prophesied fails to take place, it leaves us with a false prophet.
So why is it that Jonah is referred to as a prophet?
Jonah prophesied that Nineveh would be overturned in 40 days.
The Ninevites believed this and commenced a fast as well as changing their clothes. Even the king got in on the act by ordering his people to wear sackcloth and not to eat or drink.
"So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?"
Jonah 3:6-9
The people of Nineveh repented and God refrained from visiting destruction on Nineveh.
"And God saw their works that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
Jonah 3:10
So the destruction of Nineveh never came to pass.
Jonah got it wrong - he was no prophet.
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It depends on whether a prophecy is 'set-in-stone' or can be averted, as in THIS case, no ?!!?!?
BTW
Why is Mohammed called a prophet by Muslims as he never- i repeat - NEVER prophecied anything ??
Nick
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I didn't know the answer to that one Trippeymonkey but I googled and found this which is interesting if nothing else. Gives an Islamic perspective:
http://www.thespiritofislam.com/mohammed-jesus/28-was-muhammad-a-true-prophet.html
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Well, I think Jesus is a prophet in Islam, and is even considered to be divinely inspired, as is the Gospel, but of course, he is not divine. In fact, I think Jesus is the penultimate prophet.
There is a pretty Sufi poem about this, 'Abraham is the root, and Moses the stem, and Jesus is the bud on the stem, and the bud opened, and the flower is Mohammed'.
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There is a pretty Sufi poem...
Oh Dear - there's a world of difference between teachings of both persons.
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There is a pretty Sufi poem...
Oh Dear - there's a world of difference between teachings of both persons.
Well, there is a big difference between Judaism, Christianity and Islam, but I think Muslims are required to accept that Jesus is the penultimate prophet, and was divinely inspired. But I'm happy to be contradicted, if this is wrong.
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So why is it that Jonah is referred to as a prophet?
Jonah prophesied that Nineveh would be overturned in 40 days.
Did he say how it would be overturned, Khat? Doesn't its king and its people changing their mindset count as overturning?
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Well, I think Jesus is a prophet in Islam, and is even considered to be divinely inspired, as is the Gospel, but of course, he is not divine. In fact, I think Jesus is the penultimate prophet.
There is a pretty Sufi poem about this, 'Abraham is the root, and Moses the stem, and Jesus is the bud on the stem, and the bud opened, and the flower is Mohammed'.
The problem with this thinking is that Mohammed seems to take things backwards from what Jesus offers. Up until then, prophets seem to have referred to progress forwards.
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One way of looking at it I suppose but a bit negative to only think that way, considering that Mohammed did an awful lot for the society in which he lived. People forget that. He was quite revolutionary.
Yes Wigginhall, Jesus is a prophet in Islam.
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tripster,
Why is Mohammed called a prophet by Muslims as he never- i repeat - NEVER prophecied anything ??
I always look askance too at the BBC referring to "the prophet Mohammed" - it's a tacit endorsement of the claim, and it legitimises conceptually the notion that anyone could prophesise anything. I'd have thought, "so-called prophet" or "religious leader Moslems consider to have been a prophet" or similar would be more appropriate.
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One way of looking at it I suppose but a bit negative to only think that way, considering that Mohammed did an awful lot for the society in which he lived. People forget that. He was quite revolutionary.
Yes Wigginhall, Jesus is a prophet in Islam.
I'm not aying that he wasn't 'quite revolutionary', Brownie - just that in comparison to the massively revolutionary teaching that Jesus brought, Mohammed seemed to lead Islam to return to a more paternalistic and works-based worldview than Jesus had proposed. I appreciate that, since the times of both Jesus and Mohammed, the leaders of their respective followers haven't always stuck all that close to the teachings of their respective founders.
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It depends on whether a prophecy is 'set-in-stone' or can be averted, as in THIS case, no ?!!?!?
BTW
Why is Mohammed called a prophet by Muslims as he never- i repeat - NEVER prophecied anything ??
Nick
My guess is that if you speak to a Muslim you'll get plenty of examples.
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Well, according to the Bible, the test of a prophet is clearly set out in Deuteronomy 18:22
"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
In other words if what's been prophesied fails to take place, it leaves us with a false prophet.
So why is it that Jonah is referred to as a prophet?
Jonah prophesied that Nineveh would be overturned in 40 days.
The Ninevites believed this and commenced a fast as well as changing their clothes. Even the king got in on the act by ordering his people to wear sackcloth and not to eat or drink.
"So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?"
Jonah 3:6-9
The people of Nineveh repented and God refrained from visiting destruction on Nineveh.
"And God saw their works that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
Jonah 3:10
So the destruction of Nineveh never came to pass.
Jonah got it wrong - he was no prophet.
It doesn't fit does it.. Did you conveniently omit:-
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Jonah didn't die so he was telling the truth... but he also knew God would not harm them when they repented.
Do you know your trouble... Cherry picking because you cannot stand the truth that Yahweh chose Isaac as the son of the promise just as Christ is the Prophet.
The difference between true Prophets, is they know their prophecies come from God. They also know that if people repent God is just and will forgive them. But God sends someone to warn people before they are punished.
He has given everyone the chance to repent.
The facts and truth out weigh your serpent tactics. God always shown to be right in the end....
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Did he say how it would be overturned, Khat? Doesn't its king and its people changing their mindset count as overturning?
Sounds like apologetics to me, Hope.
Given the Bible god's record for death, destruction and general smiting, the king and people of Nineveh would, not unreasonably, have feared the worst.
The people of Nineveh repented and God refrained from visiting destruction on Nineveh.
And God saw their works that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Jonah 3:10 KJV
When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.
Jonah 3:10 NIV
Two versions of the same scripture.
One says the prophecy stated that God was going to commit an act of evil the other says it was an act of destruction.
There was no destruction and neither was there an act of evil.
The prophecy never happened - Jonah fails the test.
Here's another line..
And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
Jonah 4:11
Spare them from what? Death and destruction was the OT god's MO. Scripture after scripture shows us that.
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Sounds like apologetics to me, Hope.
And what is wrong with apologetics, Khat? I've heard plenty of sientists using apologetics - even some here on the board.
Given the Bible god's record for death, destruction and general smiting, the king and people of Nineveh would, not unreasonably, have feared the worst.
The people of Nineveh repented and God refrained from visiting destruction on Nineveh.
Jonah 3:10 KJV
Jonah 3:10 NIV
Two versions of the same scripture.
Quoting two versions of the same scripture like this is a bit of a tame effort, Khat. For one thing, the language of one is nigh-on 400 years older than the other, so doesn't necessarily mean the same now as it did then (after all, language changes and develops over time). For another thing most Biblical scholars, be they believers or not, regard the KJV as a poor translation as it's sources are far more modern than thsoe of many of the more recent transaltions -and it was interfered with by the king to strengthen the teaching on the absolute right of monarchs - especially the OT - which doesn't match the original language.
I am aware Americans like the KJV more than other translations - simply because (regardless of all the techical jargon they have come up with) every day American English is closer to Elizabethan/Shakesperean English that modern British English. This is a well-known linguistic phenomenon, where a language that has been transported from its original location (ie English, French, ... in fact many European languages) to new locations away from its homeland has always remained somewhat closer to the original version of the language than its modern day 'homeland' cousin.
One says the prophecy stated that God was going to commit an act of evil the other says it was an act of destruction.
Does the KJV only use the term 'evil' for the worst of actions? If my memory serves me correctly, it uses it as a synonym for 'sin' - so that could include anything from lying, to theft, from physical and mental bullying to murder, ... Does it specify what act of destruction he was going to bring on them? Was it damage to their property, to their persons, to their community?
There was no destruction and neither was there an act of evil.
The prophecy never happened - Jonah fails the test.
So, you think that God's message consisted solely of “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”? If all we had of the Hebrew Scriptures was the book of Jonah, I might accept your premis, but when one looks at the books that surround this one, one sees that his message was basically one of repentance and turning to the God of the Jews. The first part of chapter 4 reinforces this understanding - that God wanted the people of Nineveh to respond and turn to him.
Here's another line..
Jonah 4:11
Spare them from what? Death and destruction was the OT god's MO. Scripture after scripture shows us that.
Context of this single verse?
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It depends on whether a prophecy is 'set-in-stone' or can be averted, as in THIS case, no ?!!?!?
BTW
Why is Mohammed called a prophet by Muslims as he never- i repeat - NEVER prophecied anything ??
Nick
Well the term prophet sounds nice and religious,what you should realise is the God of the Bible is not the God of the Koran so in general take your choice.Now a biblical prophet is someone chosen to bring a message by God /Jehovah and this prophecy must come true.If it does not come to pass the prophet was a false prophet,so you are then told in general take no notice of this person.
~TW~
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I didn't know the answer to that one Trippymonkey but I googled and found this which is interesting if nothing else. Gives an Islamic perspective:
http://www.thespiritofislam.com/mohammed-jesus/28-was-muhammad-a-true-prophet.html
Just had a look at this place - very interesting but states from the POV of themselves being right, Christians, & Islam being wrong. It does, however, hold itself well against the rubbish Muslims say about their own religion being best of all.
Nick
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Wot! No one wants to admit they got it wrong... Never mind.. TRUTH doesn't interest anyone it appears these days.
Quite happy to go on posting about things they do not understand and showing how ignorant most are when it comes to the bible and God. Some of us more than happy to point out how disingenuous some people are when the truth is provided for them to read and they ignore the fact.
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Wot! No one wants to admit they got it wrong... Never mind.. TRUTH doesn't interest anyone it appears these days.
Quite happy to go on posting about things they do not understand and showing how ignorant most are when it comes to the bible and God. Some of us more than happy to point out how disingenuous some people are when the truth is provided for them to read and they ignore the fact.
Dear, dear talking about yourself again Sass! You are funny, even most Christians on this forum don't reckon your posts make much sense, let alone the rest of us!
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Is someone here, regarding whether the Bible is 100% true in its form NOW, expecting us all to bow down???
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Is someone here, regarding whether the Bible is 100% true in its form NOW, expecting us all to bow down???
Not sure. I suppose it depends on whether you are talking about the OT/NT or both. The New Testament epistles continue to be predominantly directed at those within the church, whilst the Gospels continue to be directed at humanity.
I have never really been sure about the viability of Judaism in view of Jesus' opening of the message to those outside Judaism.
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And what is wrong with apologetics, Khat? I've heard plenty of sientists using apologetics - even some here on the board.
Given the Bible god's record for death, destruction and general smiting, the king and people of Nineveh would, not unreasonably, have feared the worst.
Quoting two versions of the same scripture like this is a bit of a tame effort, Khat. For one thing, the language of one is nigh-on 400 years older than the other, so doesn't necessarily mean the same now as it did then (after all, language changes and develops over time). For another thing most Biblical scholars, be they believers or not, regard the KJV as a poor translation as it's sources are far more modern than thsoe of many of the more recent transaltions -and it was interfered with by the king to strengthen the teaching on the absolute right of monarchs - especially the OT - which doesn't match the original language.
I am aware Americans like the KJV more than other translations - simply because (regardless of all the techical jargon they have come up with) every day American English is closer to Elizabethan/Shakesperean English that modern British English. This is a well-known linguistic phenomenon, where a language that has been transported from its original location (ie English, French, ... in fact many European languages) to new locations away from its homeland has always remained somewhat closer to the original version of the language than its modern day 'homeland' cousin.
Does the KJV only use the term 'evil' for the worst of actions? If my memory serves me correctly, it uses it as a synonym for 'sin' - so that could include anything from lying, to theft, from physical and mental bullying to murder, ... Does it specify what act of destruction he was going to bring on them? Was it damage to their property, to their persons, to their community?
So, you think that God's message consisted solely of “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”? If all we had of the Hebrew Scriptures was the book of Jonah, I might accept your premis, but when one looks at the books that surround this one, one sees that his message was basically one of repentance and turning to the God of the Jews. The first part of chapter 4 reinforces this understanding - that God wanted the people of Nineveh to respond and turn to him.
Context of this single verse?
Apologetics uses the uncertainty, mixed messages and lack of clarity in the Bible to further the Christian cause and explain away prophecies that have failed.
I've never heard of "scientific apologetics"
So I googled it and found that it's used by Christians in an attempt to show that their superstitions and science are reconcilable.
In other words, there's nothing scientific about it.
By the way, compared to the way he smites, slaughters and massacres his way through the OT, the god you're describing for Jonah is remarkably restrained. Have you given him a personality transplant?
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What is wrong, Khatru, your cherry picking too embarrassing to answer the points raised.
May be you should stick to what you know and can prove instead of making things up.
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Well, I think Jesus is a prophet in Islam, and is even considered to be divinely inspired, as is the Gospel, but of course, he is not divine.
......
Jesus is not divine? And you know this, wiggs?
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Jesus is not divine? And you know this, wiggs?
Read his comment again - he means not divine from the point of view of Islam.
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Read his comment again - he means not divine from the point of view of Islam.
Ah, yes. It's just me... I'd read it twice and couldn't make out what he was saying.
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Apologetics uses the uncertainty, mixed messages and lack of clarity in the Bible to further the Christian cause and explain away prophecies that have failed.
I've never heard of "scientific apologetics"
So I googled it and found that it's used by Christians in an attempt to show that their superstitions and science are reconcilable.
In other words, there's nothing scientific about it.
By the way, compared to the way he smites, slaughters and massacres his way through the OT, the god you're describing for Jonah is remarkably restrained. Have you given him a personality transplant?
As has been pointed out Khatru, is that the proper definition of apologetics or is it the flip, up yours redefinition redolent of the seriously misnamed "RationalWiki"?
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Jeremiah 18:5-10 should help:
Then the word of the Lord came to me. 6He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. 7If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.
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Jeremiah 18:5-10 should help:
Then the word of the Lord came to me. 6He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. 7If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.
What an unpleasant statement, if it had anything to do with a deity. It gives the impression humans are its toys to do with them as it wishes.
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It doesn't fit does it.. Did you conveniently omit:-
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Jonah didn't die so he was telling the truth... but he also knew God would not harm them when they repented.
Do you know your trouble... Cherry picking because you cannot stand the truth that Yahweh chose Isaac as the son of the promise just as Christ is the Prophet.
The difference between true Prophets, is they know their prophecies come from God. They also know that if people repent God is just and will forgive them. But God sends someone to warn people before they are punished.
He has given everyone the chance to repent.
The facts and truth out weigh your serpent tactics. God always shown to be right in the end....
Ah, there you are.
Will you be hanging around to answer questions this time or will you, like before, be running away unable to cope?
Cherry pick? You mean like you just did?
Let's look at the line you just posted....
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
So when your god says "die" he means that he will smite them there and then for presuming to speak in his name?
Is that what you're saying?
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As has been pointed out Khatru, is that the proper definition of apologetics or is it the flip, up yours redefinition redolent of the seriously misnamed "RationalWiki"?
Lol!
Well, when it comes to proper definitions of words, perhaps believers need to take a look at themselves.
Take the word "love"
Love is a lot of things but it's not building a massive torture chamber, stocking it with demons, holding people there against their will and torturing them for all eternity.
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What an unpleasant statement, if it had anything to do with a deity. It gives the impression humans are its toys to do with them as it wishes.
Unpleasant is right.
But then we are talking about a character who Christians believe indiscriminately kills millions.
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Ah, there you are.
Will you be hanging around to answer questions this time or will you, like before, be running away unable to cope?
Cherry pick? You mean like you just did?
Let's look at the line you just posted....
So when your god says "die" he means that he will smite them there and then for presuming to speak in his name?
Another moving of the goal post... Did Jonah die? No, so not a false prophet then. See how easy it is to stick to the truth and not get drawn in to your games because you cannot admit you got it wrong and deliberately misrepresented what was actually written.
What did I write?
It doesn't fit does it.. Did you conveniently omit:-
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Jonah didn't die so he was telling the truth... but he also knew God would not harm them when they repented.
Do you know your trouble... Cherry picking because you cannot stand the truth that Yahweh chose Isaac as the son of the promise just as Christ is the Prophet.
The difference between true Prophets, is they know their prophecies come from God. They also know that if people repent God is just and will forgive them. But God sends someone to warn people before they are punished.
He has given everyone the chance to repent.
The facts and truth out weigh your serpent tactics. God always shown to be right in the end....
You wrote:
Quote from: Khatru on May 04, 2016, 01:06:57 PM
Well, according to the Bible, the test of a prophet is clearly set out in Deuteronomy 18:22
"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
In other words if what's been prophesied fails to take place, it leaves us with a false prophet.
So why is it that Jonah is referred to as a prophet?
Jonah prophesied that Nineveh would be overturned in 40 days.
The Ninevites believed this and commenced a fast as well as changing their clothes. Even the king got in on the act by ordering his people to wear sackcloth and not to eat or drink.
"So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?"
Jonah 3:6-9
The people of Nineveh repented and God refrained from visiting destruction on Nineveh.
"And God saw their works that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
Jonah 3:10
So the destruction of Nineveh never came to pass.
Jonah got it wrong - he was no prophet.
So Jonah knew as the book shows what I said to be correct.
Your ignorance of the book shows that you were cherry picking and ignoring the facts to try and make a square peg fit in a round hole.
Is that what you're saying?
What I said was clear. You ignored all the truth to cherry pick and make something out to be true which was false.
Now everyone knows how dishonest you are in your material you chose to post and comment on.
You ignore the facts to make the false stick. But as you can see the truth wipes all that away. Including your dishonest cherry picking.
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Lol!
Well, when it comes to proper definitions of words, perhaps believers need to take a look at themselves.
Take the word "love"
Love is a lot of things but it's not building a massive torture chamber, stocking it with demons, holding people there against their will and torturing them for all eternity.
Okay show us where in the bible you got this from...
I bet you can't find it...
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The Jonah and the Whale story is so very credible, NOT, LOL!
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The Jonah and the Whale story is so very credible, NOT, LOL!
It's ametaphor for being in deep do do.
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Lol!
Well, when it comes to proper definitions of words, perhaps believers need to take a look at themselves.
Take the word "love"
Love is a lot of things but it's not building a massive torture chamber, stocking it with demons, holding people there against their will and torturing them for all eternity.
You really are not informed at all God sends no one to hell.You choose to go there try reading John 3:16 and can we have less of your soppy post.For the benefit of sanity thanks.
~TW~
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So if one of your kids decided to walk out in front of a train with YOU there, you'd just say ' oh well - never mind, they wanted it so....' thus shirking ALL responsibilities to your kids ?!!?!?
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So if one of your kids decided to walk out in front of a train with YOU there, you'd just say ' oh well - never mind, they wanted it so....' thus shirking ALL responsibilities to your kids ?!!?!?
From what I've heard from some posters on this board, they wouldn't consider it to be good parenting to stop a child experiencing the consequences of their actions, Nick.
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Love is a lot of things but it's not building a massive torture chamber, stocking it with demons, holding people there against their will and torturing them for all eternity.
So why spend so much of your time and effort trying to make out that this is what God is like, Khat. For one thing, ancient (and, I believe, modern) Hebrew is a far more imagery-based language and culture than modern English - papables and allegories were far more common in that culture than they are in ours. Secondly, the 'fire and brimstone' that so many people like to talk about dates from the 14th century 'Divine Comedy' by Dante.
Thirdly, someone can come up to you or I and say that they want to go somewhere were there are no bright night lights (so that they can enjoy the night sky, perhaps) and no doubt we could both suggest places and 'send them' on their way. No-one can accuse us of 'holding them there against their will' on the grounds that we sent them there. The same goes with this 'torture chamber' as you call it. At the final judgement - and I'm assuming that, by the concerns you have expressed over the issue as a whole, that you - even if only deep in your being - believe that this will happen, we will be held to account for our actions and choices in life. If, as some here profess, we don't believe in God and all that he claims for himself (used in the gender non-specific way that those pronouns exist in English), then God will point us in the direction of the one place we will be happy for eternity - he will 'send us' on our way. We will be able to take eternal responsibility for the actions and choices we make during our lives. He isn't responsible for our choices and can't be held responsible for their consequences.
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...then God will point us in the direction of the one place we will be happy for eternity - he will 'send us' on our way.
So, we're all going to be happy in hell? Free to change our minds too - otherwise it would be 'holding us there against our will'?
We will be able to take eternal responsibility for the actions and choices we make during our lives.
What does that mean?
He isn't responsible for our choices and can't be held responsible for their consequences.
Yet again the theist absurdity of free will from the point of view of an omnipotent and omniscient god. If god is truly omnipotent, omniscient and created everything, then yes, it would be responsible for all of our decisions (unless it made them truly random, in which case, nobody is responsible)...
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From what I've heard from some posters on this board, they wouldn't consider it to be good parenting to stop a child experiencing the consequences of their actions, Nick.
It is NOT good parenting to kill or torture your kids if they don't obey you as the deity likes to do!
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You ignore the facts to make the false stick. But as you can see the truth wipes all that away. Including your dishonest cherry picking.
Nothing dishonest about it.
You're saying that if Jonah was lying then your god would have killed him. However, because Jonah wasn't killed then that means he was speaking the truth.
Have I got you right there?
Please answer me that before we go any further.
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Okay show us where in the bible you got this from...
I bet you can't find it...
Are you saying your god did not create a place called Hell to torture people in?
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You really are not informed at all God sends no one to hell.You choose to go there try reading John 3:16 and can we have less of your soppy post.For the benefit of sanity thanks.
~TW~
I'm not going to Hell - I refuse to go.
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Did Jonah die? No, so not a false prophet then.
I guess that's clear enough.
The Bible tells us that God said those who lie and claim to speak for him will die. Jonah claimed to speak for God and he did not die so that means he was telling the truth.
Except that this particular fable contradicts another fable.
Check out 1 Kings 13:1-10
Here you can read a myth about a prophet out of Judah speaking for the Bible god.
Carry on reading from 1 Kings 13:11-26
In this part we meet a liar and false prophet from Bethel.
He also claims to speak for the supreme cosmic mega-being but he is lying. However, the prophet from Judah falls for his lies.
Now, using your argument, the liar and false prophet deserves a thorough smiting. After all., no less a person than God himself says......
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
That's your quote, not mine.
So, the Bible god kills the false prophet?
No, he kills the true prophet by siccing a lion on him.
Damn those biblical contradictions!
-
Read it Khatru,
Then come back and see if you actually learned anything...
It will show how dishonest you are in dealings with the bible and will prove you will do anything to twist the truth about being deliberately misleading.
Jonah 1King James Version (KJV)
1 Now the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
2 Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.
3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the Lord, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the Lord.
4 But the Lord sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken.
5 Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep.
6 So the shipmaster came to him, and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not.
7 And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah.
8 Then said they unto him, Tell us, we pray thee, for whose cause this evil is upon us; What is thine occupation? and whence comest thou? what is thy country? and of what people art thou?
9 And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the Lord, the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land.
10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him. Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the Lord, because he had told them.
11 Then said they unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous.
12 And he said unto them, Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.
13 Nevertheless the men rowed hard to bring it to the land; but they could not: for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous against them.
14 Wherefore they cried unto the Lord, and said, We beseech thee, O Lord, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O Lord, hast done as it pleased thee.
15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.
16 Then the men feared the Lord exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the Lord, and made vows.
17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Chapter 2.
Jonah 2King James Version (KJV)
2 Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly,
2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.
7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the Lord: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the Lord.
10 And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.
Chapter 3.
Jonah 3King James Version (KJV)
3 And the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying,
2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Chapter 4.
Jonah 4King James Version (KJV)
4 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
2 And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
3 Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.
4 Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry?
5 So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city.
6 And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.
7 But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.
8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live.
9 And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.
10 Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
There are 4 chapters and in them are the truth of the matter.
Jonah did not want to preach the word sent to him because he knew God is good and if they repented they would not die.
In fact it explains the difference between good Prophets and false Prophets. Jonah was a true Prophet of God and no matter how he tried to get away from God, even in the deep and jaws of death no man comes back from. Even there Gods hand lead him and even there God was right beside him.
It shows that true Prophets knew that God sends warnings. Just as Moses did with Pharaoh. But even having let them go he went after them to kill them. In life God knows all things. The Prophets of GOD, know God.
You deliberately took something out of context of the truth and it made it something it wasn't by the pride of your own thinking.
But the truth before you shows you for what you are. FALSE.
You came here to undermine the Word and the people of God, the Only most High God. You have failed and that is all you can expect to do. Because YHWH is the ONLY God and Isaac is the one true chosen Son of Abraham whom the promise came through. Do not try to do this again.
-
Read it Khatru,
Then come back and see if you actually learned anything...
It will show how dishonest you are in dealings with the bible and will prove you will do anything to twist the truth about being deliberately misleading.
Jonah 1King James Version (KJV)
1 Now the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
2 Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.
3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the Lord, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the Lord.
4 But the Lord sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken.
5 Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep.
6 So the shipmaster came to him, and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not.
7 And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah.
8 Then said they unto him, Tell us, we pray thee, for whose cause this evil is upon us; What is thine occupation? and whence comest thou? what is thy country? and of what people art thou?
9 And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the Lord, the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land.
10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him. Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the Lord, because he had told them.
11 Then said they unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous.
12 And he said unto them, Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.
13 Nevertheless the men rowed hard to bring it to the land; but they could not: for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous against them.
14 Wherefore they cried unto the Lord, and said, We beseech thee, O Lord, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O Lord, hast done as it pleased thee.
15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.
16 Then the men feared the Lord exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the Lord, and made vows.
17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Chapter 2.
Jonah 2King James Version (KJV)
2 Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly,
2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.
7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the Lord: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the Lord.
10 And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.
Chapter 3.
Jonah 3King James Version (KJV)
3 And the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying,
2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Chapter 4.
Jonah 4King James Version (KJV)
4 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
2 And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
3 Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.
4 Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry?
5 So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city.
6 And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.
7 But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.
8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live.
9 And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.
10 Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
There are 4 chapters and in them are the truth of the matter.
Jonah did not want to preach the word sent to him because he knew God is good and if they repented they would not die.
In fact it explains the difference between good Prophets and false Prophets. Jonah was a true Prophet of God and no matter how he tried to get away from God, even in the deep and jaws of death no man comes back from. Even there Gods hand lead him and even there God was right beside him.
It shows that true Prophets knew that God sends warnings. Just as Moses did with Pharaoh. But even having let them go he went after them to kill them. In life God knows all things. The Prophets of GOD, know God.
You deliberately took something out of context of the truth and it made it something it wasn't by the pride of your own thinking.
But the truth before you shows you for what you are. FALSE.
You came here to undermine the Word and the people of God, the Only most High God. You have failed and that is all you can expect to do. Because YHWH is the ONLY God and Isaac is the one true chosen Son of Abraham whom the promise came through. Do not try to do this again.
So Jonah spoke the truth and you know this because the supreme cosmic mega-being did not strike him dead.
For it is told....
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
-
So Jonah spoke the truth and you know this because the supreme cosmic mega-being did not strike him dead.
For it is told....
I see you did not read it... hence you are as ignorant as you were when you originally posted the rubbish that is not from the bible..
Gordon: I think we have a child under the age of 16 posting on this site. Khatru is unable to reason as an adult and is incoherent when it comes to actually taking part in the discussion and heeding information given.
I think you need to check if he is over 16 because of the subjects we sometimes touch upon.
Thanks Sassy.
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I'm not going to Hell - I refuse to go.
Khatru, what makes you think you'd be welcome there anyway ;) ?
It is NOT good parenting to kill or torture your kids if they don't obey you as the deity likes to do!
Since when has the deity liked to obey any of us? News to me, I'll be issuing instructions from now on! ;)
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So why spend so much of your time and effort trying to make out that this is what God is like, Khat. For one thing, ancient (and, I believe, modern) Hebrew is a far more imagery-based language and culture than modern English - papables and allegories were far more common in that culture than they are in ours. Secondly, the 'fire and brimstone' that so many people like to talk about dates from the 14th century 'Divine Comedy' by Dante.
Thirdly, someone can come up to you or I and say that they want to go somewhere were there are no bright night lights (so that they can enjoy the night sky, perhaps) and no doubt we could both suggest places and 'send them' on their way. No-one can accuse us of 'holding them there against their will' on the grounds that we sent them there. The same goes with this 'torture chamber' as you call it. At the final judgement - and I'm assuming that, by the concerns you have expressed over the issue as a whole, that you - even if only deep in your being - believe that this will happen, we will be held to account for our actions and choices in life. If, as some here profess, we don't believe in God and all that he claims for himself (used in the gender non-specific way that those pronouns exist in English), then God will point us in the direction of the one place we will be happy for eternity - he will 'send us' on our way. We will be able to take eternal responsibility for the actions and choices we make during our lives. He isn't responsible for our choices and can't be held responsible for their consequences.
So that place of eternal fire and torture of which so many Christians have told me I'm going to doesn't actually exist?
That's great news but man those Christians sure got that wrong then.
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Khatru, what makes you think you'd be welcome there anyway ;) ?
Since when has the deity liked to obey any of us? News to me, I'll be issuing instructions from now on! ;)
Sorry I didn't phrase that very well!
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I see you did not read it... hence you are as ignorant as you were when you originally posted the rubbish that is not from the bible..
Gordon: I think we have a child under the age of 16 posting on this site. Khatru is unable to reason as an adult and is incoherent when it comes to actually taking part in the discussion and heeding information given.
I think you need to check if he is over 16 because of the subjects we sometimes touch upon.
Thanks Sassy.
Lol
You're running away from me again, Sass.
You did that on the Biblical Translation thread and now you're doing it again in here.
I'm sorry if your faith has left you so unprepared to face up to scrutiny.
Perhaps you should try Islam - you're almost a Muslim anyway.
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Khatru, what makes you think you'd be welcome there anyway ;) ?
It's OK, there is no place of eternal torture anyway!
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It's OK, there is no place of eternal torture anyway!
there is and at the moment you have a place booked. I often tell Sass she is wrong but not this time.
~TW~
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there is and at the moment you have a place booked. I often tell Sass she is wrong but not this time.
~TW~
You see, Hope - this guy says there is a place of eternal torture.
Man, you Christians need to get your story straight.
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there is and at the moment you have a place booked. I often tell Sass she is wrong but not this time.
~TW~
And you know that is a fact because?
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And you know that is a fact because?
I guess TW is happy because us going to eternal torture is exactly what his god wants anyway.
That's why it's his god that sends us to Hell.
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I guess TW is happy because us going to eternal torture is exactly what his god wants anyway.
That's why it's his god that sends us to Hell.
TW certainly seems to get off on the idea of eternal torture for all those who don't see it his way!
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Who is a Prophet?
Sometimes we all are.
Sometimes we all have inner " truths " we would rather not acknowledge, but sometimes things have to be faced.
Sometimes it involves others.
The ability to be a prophet, is in all of us, IMO.
To me a prophet is someone who stands up and speaks an unacknowledged truth.
Not really woo, more inner yoo ....... ;)
:)
Anyway here is an article about your inner Jonah ;D
http://www.reformjudaism.org/sometimes-we-are-jonah
http://youtu.be/HzdjMLKKdgk
By Queen
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Joseph Smith of the LDS is also claimed to be a Prophet.
This is South Park
http://youtu.be/tu4y7x9LRyY
Made me laugh ;D
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TW certainly seems to get off on the idea of eternal torture for all those who don't see it his way!
`
That's right and I get my info from the bible.
~TW~
-
TW,
That's right and I get my info from the bible.
To be fair though, you actually mean here just the bits of the bible that happen to suit you. 1 Corinthians 13:13 for example seems to have passed you by entirely.
-
`
That's right and I get my info from the bible.
~TW~
You aren't in there!
Nothing in there says TW is right, and will be among the saved.
Nothing at all.
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TW,
To be fair though, you actually mean here just the bits of the bible that happen to suit you. 1 Corinthians 13:13 for example seems to have passed you by entirely.
No I mean what I said. 1Cor 13:13 is addressed to believers so no point in going down that road,----what road your post is ;D
~TW~
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You aren't in there!
Nothing in there says TW is right, and will be among the saved.
Nothing at all.
Not you again.
~TW~
-
Not you again.
~TW~
Yes, me again ;)
-
Yes, me again ;)
Jack of all trades and master of none.
~TW~
-
Jack of all trades and master of none.
~TW~
:)
-
TW,
No I mean what I said. 1Cor 13:13 is addressed to believers so no point in going down that road,----what road your post is ;D
Do you not classify yourself as a "believer" then?
-
TW,
Do you not classify yourself as a "believer" then?
I AM.
~TW~
-
I AM.
~TW~
No you are really not ;) there is only one, I am who I am
-
No you are really not ;) there is only one, I am who I am
Rose you need to repent and be baptised and take floo with you.
~TW~
-
`
That's right and I get my info from the bible.
~TW~
And put your own sick interpretation on it!
-
Rose you need to repent and be baptised and take floo with you.
~TW~
I'm not sure I can carry her TW, I can't see her coming voluntarily :-\
Then you have the question of being baptised by whom?
There isn't a universal agreement on which baptism is the right one.
Your scripture doesn't actually say, IMO.
Too many people claim theirs is the right one, while saying others are the wrong one.
:-\
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So that place of eternal fire and torture of which so many Christians have told me I'm going to doesn't actually exist?
That's great news but man those Christians sure got that wrong then.
Christ gave us two commandments and in these two commandments are the whole teachings of the Prophets and the Law.
Luke 16:19-31King James Version (KJV)
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
You are not persuaded by the rising of Christ from the dead.
When Christ died others arose from their graves.
Matthew 27.
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
In truth the teachings about Christ in the NT are so people will Know Jesus is the Son of God and sets us free from sin, the world and the devil.
The things of God are for the children of God. How could you ever understand that how you treat others is the reward you reap.
The rich man should have provided for Dives. Sometimes trust in God is about forsaking all the worldly things and sharing what you have with those without. We see that eventually death and hades (hell) thrown into the Lake of fire after judgment.
That all who are not in Christ face the judgment.
Where do you think you will be on that day? Why not repent of your sins and ask Jesus to be your saviour?
Jesus is Gods son and Gods love was so great for us he sent Jesus that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have eternal life.
You have a choice Khatru...Just as Dives and Lazarus...
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Sass and TW seem to be clones!
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Lol
You're running away from me again, Sass.
You did that on the Biblical Translation thread and now you're doing it again in here.
I'm sorry if your faith has left you so unprepared to face up to scrutiny.
Perhaps you should try Islam - you're almost a Muslim anyway.
Be careful where you tread in blind ignorance.
There is no such thing as Islam it has no God as it has no truth when it comes to YHWH.
YHWH said:
King James Bible
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
But note he never made him the Son of the Promises.
Isaac was the true and promised Son whom God made a great nation more numberous than the grains of sand on the seashore.
You are the person standing still because the truth has never been opened up to you.
You have no truth. Jesus Christ is the Son of God... The Messiah promised to the descendants of Abraham the JEWS.
Why would someone who knows and has the truth. Who believes in the true Prophets and Jesus Christ be running away from someone who has it ALL wrong completely.
Are you delusional, well only someone who is delusioned runs after the wrong god and wrong son.
I know that my redeemer lives but most importantly I know the one true and most high God sent him.
Running towards you and you unable to do anything because you have no truth to defend yourself.
You cannot move the unshakable.
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I guess TW is happy because us going to eternal torture is exactly what his god wants anyway.
That's why it's his god that sends us to Hell.
Do you think it is good for people to go to hell? Well we see from Dives and Lazarus it is about choice.
How many people will you be responsible for not being saved because you told lies about God and his Messiah.
No one sends a person to hell. It is the wages of sin brings death and it is something you earn for yourself.
Something no one wants to do is take responsibility for their actions or words.
If you don't love others here where else can you love them?
Love God and love others... Really important and then no one goes anywhere they have earned for doing wrong unto others.
-
Joseph Smith of the LDS is also claimed to be a Prophet.
Joseph Smith claimed angels brought him Gold Tablets to translate.
As Christ was to bring Gods final truth, why would he or anyone else need new teachings?
This is South Park
http://youtu.be/tu4y7x9LRyY
Made me laugh ;D
We get site cannot be found...
We are to love one another... why is that so hard for some?
-
And your posts convey 'love', do they Sass?
-
`
That's right and I get my info from the bible.
~TW~
You take pleasure at the thought of people being tortured for all eternity just because they have a different world view to you?
That's sick.
-
Christ gave us two commandments and in these two commandments are the whole teachings of the Prophets and the Law.
Luke 16:19-31King James Version (KJV)
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
You are not persuaded by the rising of Christ from the dead.
When Christ died others arose from their graves.
Matthew 27.
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
In truth the teachings about Christ in the NT are so people will Know Jesus is the Son of God and sets us free from sin, the world and the devil.
The things of God are for the children of God. How could you ever understand that how you treat others is the reward you reap.
The rich man should have provided for Dives. Sometimes trust in God is about forsaking all the worldly things and sharing what you have with those without. We see that eventually death and hades (hell) thrown into the Lake of fire after judgment.
That all who are not in Christ face the judgment.
Where do you think you will be on that day? Why not repent of your sins and ask Jesus to be your saviour?
Jesus is Gods son and Gods love was so great for us he sent Jesus that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have eternal life.
You have a choice Khatru...Just as Dives and Lazarus...
So, to summarise...
What you and TW are saying is that if I want to be a Christian I need to spend the rest of my life convincing your god not to burn me after I die.
How do I convince him not to burn me?
By telling him that I love him.
-
What a lovely being is the Christian god - only one small step down from that bloody awful horror of Islam ?!?!!??
-
What a lovely being is the Christian god - only one small step down from that bloody awful horror of Islam ?!?!!??
Oh it is on a level with the Islamic one, if not a notch higher up in the nastiness stakes.
-
TW,
I AM.
In that case presumably you think 1 Corinthians 13:13 is aimed at you, yet your posts here are characterised by a malevolent and hateful pleasure at the supposed fate of those who don't think as you do. That is, you pick the bits of the Bible that suit your personality (the nasty bits) and ignore those that don't (the nice bits).
QED
-
And your posts convey 'love', do they Sass?
My post contain truth. Truth about God and Christ. Truth about God loving us and wanting us saved.
All your posts contains is insults and cursing. You show no zeal for truth or the welfare of your fellow man or the fact you could be wrong.
I guess to love someone is to tell them the truth about God and Jesus Christ.
Does it make you happy putting people down all the time and knowing you might cause others to die?
Yours only conveys pride and the need to bring down God and believers.
I believe the way I take is nobler and far more sensible when it comes to loving others.
-
Sassy,
I believe the way I take is nobler and far more sensible when it comes to loving others.
Seriously? I see your posts as full of spite and insult when you don't like the arguments you can't undo, and as the antithesis of "sensible" as they lack any sort of coherent argument of their own to support them.
In the vanishingly unlikely event that there is a Jesus as you think there to be, I'd have thought he'd be thoroughly ashamed of you.
-
So, to summarise...
What you and TW are saying is that if I want to be a Christian I need to spend the rest of my life convincing your god not to burn me after I die.
How do I convince him not to burn me?
By telling him that I love him.
Show us where in the bible or anyones writings you actually got the above from...
Simple truth is nothing of the above came from TW or myself.
As you made it that far ON YOUR OWN, ALL BY YOURSELF, WITHOUT HELP FROM THE BIBLE, GOD, TW OR MYSELF.
WHY ASK US? WE NEVER SAID THAT, THE BIBLE NEVER SAID THAT.... Do you not realise you are your own worst enemy.
You need a love of truth and so far have shown you have no love for anything but yourself.
Which is why you cannot come to understand the truth. You simply do not want it.
You want to tear down and destroy like the devil. But the devil at least knew what was written in the scriptures even if he did not know how to follow them.
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
You cannot even get right what the devil can... But as you see from Christ... Greater is he who is in us, than he who is in the world.
Maybe you should learn the bible before you try approaching those who do.
-
Sassy,
Seriously? I see your posts as full of spite and insult when you don't like the arguments you can't undo, and as the antithesis of "sensible" as they lack any sort of coherent argument of their own to support them.
In the vanishingly unlikely event that there is a Jesus as you think there to be, I'd have thought he'd be thoroughly ashamed of you.
What a load of tosh... How sad is it when you attack with lies and show yourself to be all that you have supposedly embellished about myself.
You see God and Jesus are not man... they don't lie and they certainly don't make things up to hurt others as you do.
No spite or insult and just your pride rebelling because you cannot prove to yourself the things you believe.
We have a relationship with our God. We are here so you cannot deny having been told or knowing the truth.
In spite of all your insults we remain and we just tell the truth as I did here with your reply. For a 17-18 year old you carry a lot of venom. Maybe you should find yourself some friends and go out. Are you always in the house and your bedroom?
I sincerely hope nothing wrong with you that you are unable to go out. :(
-
Sassy,
Maybe you should learn the bible before you try approaching those who do.
And maybe you should learn how to make a coherent argument before engaging with those of us who can.
-
Sassy,
Me:
Seriously? I see your posts as full of spite and insult when you don't like the arguments you can't undo, and as the antithesis of "sensible" as they lack any sort of coherent argument of their own to support them.
In the vanishingly unlikely event that there is a Jesus as you think there to be, I'd have thought he'd be thoroughly ashamed of you.
You:
What a load of tosh... How sad is it when you attack with lies and show yourself to be all that you have supposedly embellished about myself.
You see God and Jesus are not man... they don't lie and they certainly don't make things up to hurt others as you do.
No spite of insult just your pride rebelling because you cannot prove to yourself the things you believe.
We have a relationship with our God. We are here so you cannot deny having been told or knowing the truth.
In spite of all your insults we remain and we just tell the truth as I did here with your reply. For a 17-18 year old you carry a lot of venom. Maybe you should find yourself some friends and go out. Are you always in the house and your bedroom?
I sincerely hope nothing wrong with you that you are unable to go out. :(
Thank you for demonstrating precisely my point: spite and insult all the way masking your total inability to make an argument of any kind.
-
Sassy,
And maybe you should learn how to make a coherent argument before engaging with those of us who can.
I guess you have a long way to go before you can make sense of what others write outside your area of expertise.
Truth is the educated can always make sense of anything written when they know the subject it is in relation to.
Even with words missing we can see what the writer is actually saying.
You cannot even understand the subject being broached let alone make an argument, coherent or otherwise.
Your last reply proved these things.
-
Sassy,
I guess you have a long way to go before you can make sense of what others write outside your area of expertise.
Truth is the educated can always make sense of anything written when they know the subject it is in relation to.
Even with words missing we can see what the writer is actually saying.
You cannot even understand the subject being broached let alone make an argument, coherent or otherwise.
Your last reply proved these things.
Just out of interest, do you even know what the term "argument" means? It doesn't as you seem to think mean just asserting your personal convictions, coupled with insulting the person who's made an argument you don't like. Rather it's a generally a proposition and a conclusion, with some linking logic in between to take your from one to the other.
So here's a challenge for you: why not finally make a post that doesn't consist entirely of the former, and instead try the latter? Baby steps and all that, and there are some here who'll help you along the way if you do want to try it but really you'll feel better about yourself if you can manage it instead of the usual hysterical ranting.
Good luck with it!
-
Too difficult for you isn't Bluehillside. The child who wants to draw posters into his childish playground type of thinking.
This discussion is not about how clever we are. It is about how informed we are on the subject being discussed.
What let's you down every time is the childish way of trying to make it a verbal fight or disrespectful slanging match.
The truth is that I will always know more about God, Christ, the bible and my own faith than you who have none.
These are simple and true facts. Your behaviour is lacking in maturity and respect for anyone with different beliefs to your own.
The fact remains whilst you cannot respectfully converse with others you will always lose in the content of arguments and points raised.
I suggest you grow up quickly and if you cannot address the issues in a mature and adult manner that you do not answer at all.
I am secure in my faith. There is nothing you can teach a Christian and your lack of knowledge will just keep this silly arguments and insults going. So if you want me to answer your posts in the future. Stick to the subject matter and produce posts which are in relation to the discussion. I am not going to waste my time with a child who thinks insulting others is an actual answer.
-
Sassy,
Too difficult for you isn't Bluehillside. The child who wants to draw posters into his childish playground type of thinking.
This discussion is not about how clever we are. It is about how informed we are on the subject being discussed.
What let's you down every time is the childish way of trying to make it a verbal fight or disrespectful slanging match.
The truth is that I will always know more about God, Christ, the bible and my own faith than you who have none.
These are simple and true facts. Your behaviour is lacking in maturity and respect for anyone with different beliefs to your own.
The fact remains whilst you cannot respectfully converse with others you will always lose in the content of arguments and points raised.
I suggest you grow up quickly and if you cannot address the issues in a mature and adult manner that you do not answer at all.
I am secure in my faith. There is nothing you can teach a Christian and your lack of knowledge will just keep this silly arguments and insults going. So if you want me to answer your posts in the future. Stick to the subject matter and produce posts which are in relation to the discussion. I am not going to waste my time with a child who thinks insulting others is an actual answer.
And that'll be a "no" then. Ah well - I tried.
If it's any help, I hear Ryman's have a sale this week on green ink. Better hurry!
-
Too difficult for you isn't Bluehillside. The child who wants to draw posters into his childish playground type of thinking.
This discussion is not about how clever we are. It is about how informed we are on the subject being discussed.
What let's you down every time is the childish way of trying to make it a verbal fight or disrespectful slanging match.
The truth is that I will always know more about God, Christ, the bible and my own faith than you who have none.
These are simple and true facts. Your behaviour is lacking in maturity and respect for anyone with different beliefs to your own.
The fact remains whilst you cannot respectfully converse with others you will always lose in the content of arguments and points raised.
I suggest you grow up quickly and if you cannot address the issues in a mature and adult manner that you do not answer at all.
I am secure in my faith. There is nothing you can teach a Christian and your lack of knowledge will just keep these silly arguments and insults going. So if you want me to answer your posts in the future. Stick to the subject matter and produce posts which are in relation to the discussion. I am not going to waste my time with a child who thinks insulting others is an actual answer.
-
Sassy,
Just fyi, typing a rant in bold font does not turn its unpleasant loopiness into a sound argument.
Do watch out for sharp objects won't you.
-
My post contain truth. Truth about God and Christ. Truth about God loving us and wanting us saved.
All your posts contains is insults and cursing. You show no zeal for truth or the welfare of your fellow man or the fact you could be wrong.
I guess to love someone is to tell them the truth about God and Jesus Christ.
Does it make you happy putting people down all the time and knowing you might cause others to die?
Yours only conveys pride and the need to bring down God and believers.
I believe the way I take is nobler and far more sensible when it comes to loving others.
You want it to be the truth, but you have no evidence it is so.
-
Too difficult for you isn't Bluehillside. The child who wants to draw posters into his childish playground type of thinking.
This discussion is not about how clever we are. It is about how informed we are on the subject being discussed.
What let's you down every time is the childish way of trying to make it a verbal fight or disrespectful slanging match.
The truth is that I will always know more about God, Christ, the bible and my own faith than you who have none.
These are simple and true facts. Your behaviour is lacking in maturity and respect for anyone with different beliefs to your own.
The fact remains whilst you cannot respectfully converse with others you will always lose in the content of arguments and points raised.
I suggest you grow up quickly and if you cannot address the issues in a mature and adult manner that you do not answer at all.
I am secure in my faith. There is nothing you can teach a Christian and your lack of knowledge will just keep these silly arguments and insults going. So if you want me to answer your posts in the future. Stick to the subject matter and produce posts which are in relation to the discussion. I am not going to waste my time with a child who thinks insulting others is an actual answer.
You say you are secure in your faith, but your rants give the opposite impression and you come over as very insecure.
-
[incoherent rant in big letters]
Why do you bother....?
-
Well done Sass stick with it.Like your style. :)
~TW~
-
Is anyone else beginning to suspect that TW and Sassy are the same person?
After all, it's all there: the same foam-flecked, green-inked ranting; the same reliance on abuse and insult in place of argument; the same glee at the prospect of the fiery ends that supposedly await those who don't think as they do; the same failure to grasp even the simplest scientific findings and methods; the same refusal ever, ever, ever to engage sensibly with an argument they can't address so dismiss out of hand instead; the same indifference to bringing their faith into disrepute; the same you name it...
Come on TW/Sassy - the game's up!
-
Is anyone else beginning to suspect that TW and Sassy are the same person?
After all, it's all there: the same foam-flecked, green-inked ranting; the same reliance on abuse and insult in place of argument; the same glee at the prospect of the fiery ends that supposedly await those who don't think as they do; the same failure to grasp even the simplest scientific findings and methods; the same refusal ever, ever, ever to engage sensibly with an argument they can't address so dismiss out of hand instead; the same indifference to bringing their faith into disrepute; the same you name it...
Come on TW/Sassy - the game's up!
I am not ranting,and Sass is a unitarian and I am a trinitarian which shows your observations are crap and we can add also your views.Oh dear what a wally you are .No offence. ;)
~TW~
-
I am not ranting...
That will be apart from this bit:
...which shows your observations are crap and we can add also your views.Oh dear what a wally you are .No offence. ;)
You couldn't make it up!
;D ;D
-
That will be apart from this bit:
You couldn't make it up!
;D ;D
Since when is stating a truth ranting.Get a life .No Offence. :)
~TW~
-
I am not ranting,and Sass is a unitarian and I am a trinitarian which shows your observations are crap and we can add also your views.Oh dear what a wally you are .No offence. ;)
~TW~
Of course you are ranting. You seem insecure in your views like Sass, maybe you think you will get in your version of god's good books if you constantly tell the rest of us we are going to be tortured in hell. If god does exist it might not be so thrilled with you, and you might find yourself roasting alongside people like myself
-
Get a life .No Offence. :)
Rant, rant, rant...
-
Of course you are ranting. You seem insecure in your views like Sass, maybe you think you will get in your version of god's good books if you constantly tell the rest of us we are going to be tortured in hell. If god does exist it might not be so thrilled with you, and you might find yourself roasting alongside people like myself
What I do floo is tell you death gets closer every day and ----2 For God says,
“At just the right time, I heard you.
On the day of salvation, I helped you.”[a]
Indeed, the “right time” is now. Today is the day of salvation.
Floo repent bow the knee----------------------------------the first and second death is getting closer
~TW~
-
What I do floo is tell you death gets closer every day and ----2 For God says,
“At just the right time, I heard you.
On the day of salvation, I helped you.”[a]
Indeed, the “right time” is now. Today is the day of salvation.
Floo repent bow the knee----------------------------------the first and second death is getting closer
~TW~
Have you being drinking or are you on an illegal substance, your posts today are completely off the wall?
-
TW,
I am not ranting,and Sass is a unitarian and I am a trinitarian which shows your observations are crap and we can add also your views.Oh dear what a wally you are .No offence. ;)
And of course each has no sense or irony whatsoever - a common characteristic of the bible literalist I find.
Admittedly TW's latest tactic of saying something offensive and following it with "No offence" is new, but maybe that's just the the single TW/Sassy trying to throw us off the scent.
Hmmm...
-
Be careful where you tread in blind ignorance.
There is no such thing as Islam it has no God as it has no truth when it comes to YHWH.
YHWH said:
King James Bible
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
But note he never made him the Son of the Promises.
Isaac was the true and promised Son whom God made a great nation more numberous than the grains of sand on the seashore.
You are the person standing still because the truth has never been opened up to you.
You have no truth. Jesus Christ is the Son of God... The Messiah promised to the descendants of Abraham the JEWS.
Why would someone who knows and has the truth. Who believes in the true Prophets and Jesus Christ be running away from someone who has it ALL wrong completely.
Are you delusional, well only someone who is delusioned runs after the wrong god and wrong son.
I know that my redeemer lives but most importantly I know the one true and most high God sent him.
Running towards you and you unable to do anything because you have no truth to defend yourself.
You cannot move the unshakable.
Actually, I can.
This is demonstrated by your continuing failure to stand your ground and your inability to answer questions and face up to biblical contradictions.
You need a stronger myth system, then, perhaps, your faith won't fail you.
-
Do you think it is good for people to go to hell? Well we see from Dives and Lazarus it is about choice.
How many people will you be responsible for not being saved because you told lies about God and his Messiah.
No one sends a person to hell. It is the wages of sin brings death and it is something you earn for yourself.
Something no one wants to do is take responsibility for their actions or words.
If you don't love others here where else can you love them?
Love God and love others... Really important and then no one goes anywhere they have earned for doing wrong unto others.
Hell doesn't exist. That's what Hope says.
-
TW,
And of course each has no sense or irony whatsoever - a common characteristic of the bible literalist I find.
Admittedly TW's latest tactic of saying something offensive and following it with "No offence" is new, but maybe that's just the the single TW/Sassy trying to throw us off the scent.
Hmmm...
This is all good stuff,---love it. ;D
~TW~
-
Joseph Smith claimed angels brought him Gold Tablets to translate.
As Christ was to bring Gods final truth, why would he or anyone else need new teachings?
We get site cannot be found...
We are to love one another... why is that so hard for some?
How do you know it's your god's final truth?
For all you know, he could have changed his mind.
-
Show us where in the bible or anyones writings you actually got the above from...
Simple truth is nothing of the above came from TW or myself.
As you made it that far ON YOUR OWN, ALL BY YOURSELF, WITHOUT HELP FROM THE BIBLE, GOD, TW OR MYSELF.
WHY ASK US? WE NEVER SAID THAT, THE BIBLE NEVER SAID THAT.... Do you not realise you are your own worst enemy.
You need a love of truth and so far have shown you have no love for anything but yourself.
Which is why you cannot come to understand the truth. You simply do not want it.
You want to tear down and destroy like the devil. But the devil at least knew what was written in the scriptures even if he did not know how to follow them.
You cannot even get right what the devil can... But as you see from Christ... Greater is he who is in us, than he who is in the world.
Maybe you should learn the bible before you try approaching those who do.
You're saying I've got it wrong and your god won't be burning me if I refuse to love him.
OK - sounds good to me.
-
How do you know it's your god's final truth?
For all you know, he could have changed his mind.
People like TW and Sass believe they know exactly what the sky fairy is thinking on any topic, LOL!
-
Hell doesn't exist. That's what Hope says.
Interesting you should say that.Had a chap with my minister about Hope only yesterday.I said what would you do with someone like that,he replied kick him out of the church. ::)
~TW~
-
Interesting you should say that.Had a chap with my minister about Hope only yesterday.I said what would you do with someone like that,he replied kick him out of the church. ::)
~TW~
Your minister is obviously crazy too.
-
Floo repent bow the knee----------------------------------the first and second death is getting closer
Not sure which is the more nasty; the message from the parts of the bible you like or your gleeful delivery - as if you take pleasure in the prospect of people suffering for eternity.
Neither is much of an advert for your faith: roll up, roll up - avoid the wrath of a psychopathic god and become almost as nasty as it is...
-
Your minister is obviously crazy too.
Floo the seconds are passing it is getting closer. ::)
~TW~
-
Not sure which is the more nasty; the message from the parts of the bible you like or your gleeful delivery - as if you take pleasure in the prospect of people suffering for eternity.
Neither is much of an advert for your faith: roll up, roll up - avoid the wrath of a psychopathic god and become almost as nasty as it is...
So you found something to write.the message for you is the same as the message for floo,the first and the second death is getting closer. :(
~TW~
-
So you found something to write.the message for you is the same as the message for floo,the first and the second death is getting closer. :(
So scary!
Now, do you have any hint of a scintilla of a smidgen of evidence or the suggestion of a hint of a rational argument to indicate that this "second death" of which you speak is anything more than a sick fantasy...?
-
TW reminds me of my sadistic paternal grandmother who would have got on very well with him, and also the unpleasant hell-fire sermons I endured as a kid. This sick view of religion is abusive, especially as there is no evidence to support it.
My concern is that anyone who is young, vulnerable, or both, reading his posts might be frightened by the very nasty threats he is making if people don't see it his way.
-
Dear TW,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/ks1/literacy/using_punctuation/play/
For your edification ;) ;)
Please note the spacing after the full stop.
Gonnagle.
-
Dear TW,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/ks1/literacy/using_punctuation/play/
For your edification ;) ;)
Please note the spacing after the full stop.
Gonnagle.
gonns you are a dipstick so you want full stops.......have a commer ,, and do your self a favour the bbc are a leftwing junky org leave it alone......
~TW~
-
gonns you are a dipstick so you want full stops.......have a commer ,, and do your self a favour the bbc are a leftwing junky org leave it alone......
~TW~
Maybe you should emigrate to the US and live in a crazy Bible belt state were you would be very much at home with your extreme religious views and right-wing politics.
-
gonns you are a dipstick so you want full stops.......have a commer ,, and do your self a favour the bbc are a leftwing junky org leave it alone......
Do you think your god rewards ignorance? It's just that you seem rather proud of it...
-
Maybe you should emigrate to the US and live in a crazy Bible belt state were you would be very much at home with your extreme religious views and right-wing politics.
Floo the seconds are ticking.
~TW~
-
Dear TW,
and do your self a favour the bbc are a leftwing junky org leave it alone......
But but! auld pal, you were once a member of that left wing junky org :P :P
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbreligion/NF2213235?thread=8213791&post=109108873#p109108873
Happy days ;)
Gonnagle.
-
Dear TW,
But but! auld pal, you were once a member of that left wing junky org :P :P
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbreligion/NF2213235?thread=8213791&post=109108873#p109108873
Happy days ;)
Gonnagle.
No not happy days a voyage of discovery and I found bias and lies and things just simply excepted .
~TW~
-
Does anyone else here feel Sassy's ego is FAR too big for this world ?!!?!?!?
-
Does anyone else here feel Sassy's ego is FAR too big for this world ?!!?!?!?
My bet is it won't be long before she's raptured into the heavens.
We might be able to see it but I fear her dazzling white gown will be painful to our eyes.
-
TW,
I am a trinitarian but not the wrong type. Christ was given the Holy Spirit and God was with him.
The Holy Spirit is the seal of ownership on all who belong to God. All made one with God in the power of the Holy Spirit.
As for the posts from those people like Bluehillside, we can see they really are uneducated in the word of God to be able to give a suitable or intelligible answer when it comes to the bible, Christianity or God.
My advice is to let those who are dumb enough to suggest the things they have be left to bask in their idiocy.
People wonder why this forum is becoming stagnant. Well isn't it obvious with the childish insults and conversations they start.
Play ground tactics are below the level of decent adult communications.
They are ignorant about God, Christ and the Bible. It is so obvious that no Christian need reply to them.
They have nothing worth replying to in such posts.
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BBBBYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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Somebody save that post so that we can remind Sassy of it the next time she posts.
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Floo the seconds are ticking.
~TW~
Looking forward to it?
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Sassy: "People wonder why this forum is becoming stagnant"
Who is wondering? I've not heard it says and there's quite a lot of posts and varied opinions.
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TW,
I am a trinitarian but not the wrong type. Christ was given the Holy Spirit and God was with him.
The Holy Spirit is the seal of ownership on all who belong to God. All made one with God in the power of the Holy Spirit.
As for the posts from those people like Bluehillside, we can see they really are uneducated in the word of God to be able to give a suitable or intelligible answer when it comes to the bible, Christianity or God.
My advice is to let those who are dumb enough to suggest the things they have be left to bask in their idiocy.
People wonder why this forum is becoming stagnant. Well isn't it obvious with the childish insults and conversations they start.
Play ground tactics are below the level of decent adult communications.
They are ignorant about God, Christ and the Bible. It is so obvious that no Christian need reply to them.
They have nothing worth replying to in such posts.
The above was written by someone who sees nothing wrong with killing every single baby in the world.
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TW,
I am a trinitarian but not the wrong type. Christ was given the Holy Spirit and God was with him.
The Holy Spirit is the seal of ownership on all who belong to God. All made one with God in the power of the Holy Spirit.
As for the posts from those people like Bluehillside, we can see they really are uneducated in the word of God to be able to give a suitable or intelligible answer when it comes to the bible, Christianity or God.
My advice is to let those who are dumb enough to suggest the things they have be left to bask in their idiocy.
People wonder why this forum is becoming stagnant. Well isn't it obvious with the childish insults and conversations they start.
Play ground tactics are below the level of decent adult communications.
They are ignorant about God, Christ and the Bible. It is so obvious that no Christian need reply to them.
They have nothing worth replying to in such posts.
So Sass you are the wrong type of trinitarian,----I agree ----the rest of your post I also agree.
~TW~
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Sassy: "People wonder why this forum is becoming stagnant"
Who is wondering? I've not heard it says and there's quite a lot of posts and varied opinions.
The same members the same posts. The threads pruned.. but still the same old same old.
Example:Thread - ' A topic for going off Topic' by Floo. Was originally a thread started by Keturah.
Floo then started a new topic of the same name.
You haven't been her long enough.
If I am right the last new member was: Bramble
April 11, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
The one before was Stephen Taylor.
March 01, 2016, 11:10:19 AM
Before that Laura who posted when her Father passed away.
Date Registered: February 10, 2015, 01:10:13 PM
As I said stagnant....
The same posters the same threads and when pruned the same things all over again.
I have been posting for years and you a few month now. I believe I am correct about being stagnant.
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The above was written by someone who sees nothing wrong with killing every single baby in the world.
What? You believe any person living now would not see anything wrong with killing every single baby in the world?
Would put an end to mankind...
But look how stupid you really look now.
I come from a family of 9 children. I have over forty nephews and nieces. Nearly as many great nephews and neices.
Why on earth would I not see something wrong with killing EVERY SINGLE BABY IN THE WORLD.
You are Joke. Worse still you tell lies about people like myself.
Where have I wrote anything about killing every single baby in the world today.
Resorting to lies now.
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So Sass you are the wrong type of trinitarian,----I agree ----the rest of your post I also agree.
~TW~
The right type of Trinitarian who has all three persons working in their lives.
Think on! Be careful how you answer.
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The right type of Trinitarian who has all three persons working in their lives.
Think on! Be careful how you answer.
Sometimes you mirror br.
~TW~
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Sometimes you mirror br.
Oooh two fruit loops going head to head - should be fun in a depressing sort of way, albeit about as intellectually nourishing as watching two leprechaunists argue about whether leprechauns preferred blue shoes or red ones.
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Why on earth would I not see something wrong with killing EVERY SINGLE BABY IN THE WORLD.
Because that's exactly what the Bible says your god did.
Well, not quite. Not counting Noah and his so-called good stock, your god killed every single baby in the world.
Nice to see you admit that your god got it wrong.
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Sassy,
The same members the same posts. The threads pruned.. but still the same old same old.
Example:Thread - ' A topic for going off Topic' by Floo. Was originally a thread started by Keturah.
Floo then started a new topic of the same name.
You haven't been her long enough.
If I am right the last new member was: Bramble
April 11, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
The one before was Stephen Taylor.
March 01, 2016, 11:10:19 AM
Before that Laura who posted when her Father passed away.
Date Registered: February 10, 2015, 01:10:13 PM
As I said stagnant....
The same posters the same threads and when pruned the same things all over again.
I have been posting for years and you a few month now. I believe I am correct about being stagnant.
You sure are stagnant. To change that, can I suggest that you finally stop cutting and pasting bits from a book in response to every question and instead try posting some thoughts of your own?
You might for example want finally to address the question of how you'd propose to break out of the circular reasoning of, "the bible is correct because god made it so; god exists because the bible says so" rather than resort to your usual diet of petty insult and unargued assertion.
Over to you then...
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Oooh two fruit loops going head to head - should be fun in a depressing sort of way, albeit about as intellectually nourishing as watching two leprechaunists argue about whether leprechauns preferred blue shoes or red ones.
Not BHS rather hills with pot holes ;D
~TW~
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TW,
Not BHS rather hills with pot holes ;D
Each presumably containing a puddle that's marvelling at the unlikelihood of the hole fitting them exactly, so concluding "therefore god"...
...ie, the same bad argument the buffoon in the video you linked to attempted (and you were taken in by).
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Worse still you tell lies about people like myself.
Errm, might be worth getting your own house in order before accusing others.
Brownie: Before you tell me off again, come on, it is outrageous really.
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TW,
Each presumably containing a puddle that's marvelling at the unlikelihood of the hole fitting them exactly, so concluding "therefore god"...
...ie, the same bad argument the buffoon in the video you linked to attempted (and you were taken in by).
Could we have that in english
~TW~
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It already was - that's why you don't understand it.
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Oooh two fruit loops going head to head - should be fun in a depressing sort of way, albeit about as intellectually nourishing as watching two leprechaunists argue about whether leprechauns preferred blue shoes or red ones.
You are more likely to see a Leprachaun than a leprechaunist let alone two Hillside.Stop trying to flog a dead horse.
Anyone knows it's green brogues.
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Could we have that in english
~TW~
Goddidit
That's not really English, it's a special, made-up word.
I'm sure you'll understand.
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TW,
Could we have that in english
Wow! Just wow. TW asking someone else to put something into English?
You tell me which bit you didn't understand and I'll rephrase it from perfectly clear English to a different formulation of perfectly clear English. How's that?
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TW,
I shall be out of the country tomorrow so here's a genuine attempt to explain where the lecturer/preacher went wrong. Could you at least try to read and absorb the argument and respond to that rather than just throw abuse as a response?
Essentially he argues that, if Homo sapiens was the end plan and evolution had tried to reach that goal by a series of trial and error mutations, then the chances of ending up with you and me are fantastically small.
And he’s right about that.
He has though two major problems to address, as follows:
The first is that, even if that was how evolution worked, the huge unlikelihood of an outcome says nothing whatsoever to an alternative explanation – ie, “God”. As there’s no means to assign a probability to this god for comparison purposes, all that could be said would be something like, “wow, that was a long shot wasn’t it?”
That is, he’s attempting an argument from personal incredulity – briefly, “I can’t imagine how such an unllkely outcome could have occurred by natural means, therefore god” - which is always a logically false argument.
Second though – and much more seriously – that’s not how evolution works at all in any case. The process of evolution neither knows nor cares – nor can know or care – where it’ll end up. There is no plan, no blueprint, no end game, no anything – to guide it. Rather there were countless tiny steps of adaptation in response to environmental changes that over huge amounts of time led to speciation – ie, the branching off and development of new species all with common ancestry.
Where your man goes wrong is to start with himself and ask, “what are the chances?” He just assumes that he was the goal, and marvels at the unlikelihood of evolution getting there without a guiding hand. It’s called the reference point error – and doubtless had evolution led to a different but sentient species entirely, its not very bright members would be asking the same question about themselves.
And that’s why I referenced the puddles – it’s a famous example from Douglas Adams when he highlights the mistake of a puddle asking what the chances were of the hole fitting him precisely. The point though is that the puddle fits the hole, just as we fit out planet rather than the other way around in each case.
Now when you have this explained to you you usually go off the rails by ignoring the point and asking, “how did something come from nothing then?”
That may or may not be a legitimate question, but it has nothing whatever to do with evolution. Evolution is concerned only with stuff that exists already – where that stuff came from is a separate line of enquiry and it has no part to play in discussions about evolution.
In other words, you may have questions and challenges about evolution but asking how matter and forces came about to start with is not one of them.
So here’s your choice: you can either throw insult and abuse at this explanation, or you can say something like “OK fine, now I understand it” and we can move on.
Your choice.
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Thanks for giving me a choice which is to fit in with your thoughts which I reject due to a lack of evolution in the known universe, and to the evidence of prophecy coming true today,I would point out it is my belief and understanding that the points I see in scripture you do not see.Plus the witness of creation for me confirms it.
~TW~
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Thanks for giving me a choice which is to fit in with your thoughts which I reject due to a lack of evolution in the known universe, and to the evidence of prophecy coming true today,I would point out it is my belief and understanding that the points I see in scripture you do not see.Plus the witness of creation for me confirms it.
~TW~
Lack of evolution in the universe?
What are you on about.
Your ignorance is shameful.
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TW,
I shall be out of the country tomorrow so here's a genuine attempt to explain where the lecturer/preacher went wrong. Could you at least try to read and absorb the argument and respond to that rather than just throw abuse as a response?
Essentially he argues that, if Homo sapiens was the end plan and evolution had tried to reach that goal by a series of trial and error mutations, then the chances of ending up with you and me are fantastically small.
And he’s right about that.
He has though two major problems to address, as follows:
The first is that, even if that was how evolution worked, the huge unlikelihood of an outcome says nothing whatsoever to an alternative explanation – ie, “God”. As there’s no means to assign a probability to this god for comparison purposes, all that could be said would be something like, “wow, that was a long shot wasn’t it?”
That is, he’s attempting an argument from personal incredulity – briefly, “I can’t imagine how such an unllkely outcome could have occurred by natural means, therefore god” - which is always a logically false argument.
Second though – and much more seriously – that’s not how evolution works at all in any case. The process of evolution neither knows nor cares – nor can know or care – where it’ll end up. There is no plan, no blueprint, no end game, no anything – to guide it. Rather there were countless tiny steps of adaptation in response to environmental changes that over huge amounts of time led to speciation – ie, the branching off and development of new species all with common ancestry.
Where your man goes wrong is to start with himself and ask, “what are the chances?” He just assumes that he was the goal, and marvels at the unlikelihood of evolution getting there without a guiding hand. It’s called the reference point error – and doubtless had evolution led to a different but sentient species entirely, its not very bright members would be asking the same question about themselves.
And that’s why I referenced the puddles – it’s a famous example from Douglas Adams when he highlights the mistake of a puddle asking what the chances were of the hole fitting him precisely. The point though is that the puddle fits the hole, just as we fit out planet rather than the other way around in each case.
Now when you have this explained to you you usually go off the rails by ignoring the point and asking, “how did something come from nothing then?”
That may or may not be a legitimate question, but it has nothing whatever to do with evolution. Evolution is concerned only with stuff that exists already – where that stuff came from is a separate line of enquiry and it has no part to play in discussions about evolution.
In other words, you may have questions and challenges about evolution but asking how matter and forces came about to start with is not one of them.
So here’s your choice: you can either throw insult and abuse at this explanation, or you can say something like “OK fine, now I understand it” and we can move on.
Your choice.
Hi Blue
It's good to see there are still some here with the patience to go over it all yet again, carefully explaining what has been explained a thousand times before.
It's obvious that no one will ever get the TWs and Sassies of this world to see the light, but when an undecided browser reads posts like yours and then reads replies like TW's I know which one will be more convincing.
This is possibly the only way all this religious mumbo jumbo will eventually be relegated to the junk yard with all the other ancient mythical beliefs.
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Hi Blue
It's good to see there are still some here with the patience to go over it all yet again, carefully explaining what has been explained a thousand times before.
It's obvious that no one will ever get the TWs and Sassies of this world to see the light, but when an undecided browser reads posts like yours and then reads replies like TW's I know which one will be more convincing.
This is possibly the only way all this religious mumbo jumbo will eventually be relegated to the junk yard with all the other ancient mythical beliefs.
But what is this so called mum bought jumbo that the high profile atheists on this forum want relegated.
Of course they don't know themselves.
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But what is this so called mum bought jumbo that the high profile atheists on this forum want relegated.
Of course they don't know themselves.
I'm not a 'high profile atheist', (given that we've all known each other for donkeys years and all have equal opportunity to post the notion of anyone being a 'high profile' anything here is nonsensical), but what I want relegated is the idea that your truth has to be my truth. That what you believe your god wants is right for everyone. And that religions have the right to be respected without scrutiny. They don't.
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Some of evolution happens quite quickly, not slowly over time
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150902134937.htm
Documenting the rapid evolution of species in natural settings turns Darwin’s “mystery of mysteries” into a real-time scientific adventure. And while Reznick has succeeded in watching evolution happen, he’s beginning to think his earlier calculations underestimated how quickly species actually adapt in nature. “What’s exciting,” says Reznick, “is that it is now feasible to incorporate evolution into our thinking about how the world is changing.”
http://discovermagazine.com/2015/march/19-life-in-the-fast-lane
Scientists are still finding out about it.
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Lack of evolution in the universe?
What are you on about.
Your ignorance is shameful.
He said the known universe.
Presumably he means life and evolving just appears to exist here, on this planet.
As yet we haven't found something that has evolved to cope with non earth like conditions. ( which might to some, look like this planet needed intervention or planning to be as it is)
Although it is difficult to check, Venus or Titan for example.
Until we do, we are unique. Once we do, ( find life evolving) we won't be quite so unique.
:)
If we could explore 100,000 galaxies and nothing like life was ever found on any planets anywhere, we might have to consider an outside source for ours.
I think it's extremely unlikely though, that there is just us....... On Earth .
But I don't know.
As yet, no one does for sure.
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Thanks for giving me a choice which is to fit in with your thoughts which I reject due to a lack of evolution in the known universe, and to the evidence of prophecy coming true today,I would point out it is my belief and understanding that the points I see in scripture you do not see.Plus the witness of creation for me confirms it.
~TW~
As the Bible is open to so many interpretations, people can apply any scenario to it, however daft. For instance, I was wondering if it was possible Jesus could have had Asperger's syndrome? I have some knowledge of the condition as my eldest grandson (14) definitely has it, and it is more than likely my husband has it too. The gospel stories could possibly point to some signs in Jesus, which one could attribute to a person with Asperger's. Now I am NOT stating as a fact Jesus had it, just an interesting speculation on my part. But as the Bible was written so long ago, it is highly unlikely we will ever know for sure what the characters featured therein were really like.
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Thanks for giving me a choice which is to fit in with your thoughts which I reject due to a lack of evolution in the known universe, and to the evidence of prophecy coming true today,I would point out it is my belief and understanding that the points I see in scripture you do not see.Plus the witness of creation for me confirms it.
So, you deny a demonstrable fact (evolution), make a vague reference to some unspecified "prophecy", assert that you see something others do not, and round it all off with a reference to the "witness of creation".
I assume the last is a reference to the oft repeated theist argument from ignorance fallacy: you can't explain how the universe came to exist, therefore god.
No chance of any thought out arguments or evidence, then...
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He said the known universe.
Presumably he means life and evolving just appears to exist here, on this planet.
Last time I checked, the Earth was part of the known universe. Also, I'm guessing from the links ~TW~ has posted, he is an evolution denier; he doesn't think it happened on Earth.
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It seems very strange to me that some can deny evolution, but state the creation story in the Bible is factual. The theory of evolution might need fine tuning, but it looks like a credible scenario, with evidence to support it, which the creation account certainly doesn't have.
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Last time I checked, the Earth was part of the known universe. Also, I'm guessing from the links ~TW~ has posted, he is an evolution denier; he doesn't think it happened on Earth.
Yesterday was a good day our church had some answers to prayers that were just wonderful.thank you Lord. Shaker indicates the world is about 7000 years old well done Shaker :).BHS indicates order in the universe is in general an accidence probably from the big bang=nothing exploding :o .Also Khatru reads scripture takes it out of context, applies his own interpretation then says this is what you are thinking.
Give it up lads.Take the day off. ;)
~TW~
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Yesterday was a good day our church had some answers to prayers that were just wonderful.thank you Lord. Shaker indicates the world is about 7000 years old well done Shaker :).
A liar as well as stupid; never a good combination.
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Yesterday was a good day our church had some answers to prayers that were just wonderful.thank you Lord. Shaker indicates the world is about 7000 years old well done Shaker :).BHS indicates order in the universe is in general an accidence probably from the big bang=nothing exploding :o .Also Khatru reads scripture takes it out of context, applies his own interpretation then says this is what you are thinking.
Give it up lads.Take the day off. ;)
Falsehoods as well as ignorance.
-sigh-
Still waiting for any glimpse of a scintilla of a morsel of evidence or the merest suggestion of a hint of an argument for your god...
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Falsehoods as well as ignorance.
-sigh-
Still waiting for any glimpse of a scintilla of a morsel of evidence or the merest suggestion of a hint of an argument for your god...
The seconds are ticking away for you as well so you well get all the evidence you need in time.
~TW~
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There's far more evidence for dinosaurs than there's ever been for the Bible. ;)
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There's far more evidence for dinosaurs than there's ever been for the Bible. ;)
Thanks TM what is a dinosaur.
~TW~
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Dear TW,
what is a dinosaur.
YOU!!
Gonnagle.
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Dear TW,
YOU!!
Gonnagle.
Yes birthday this month.Happy Birthday ~TW~ ;)
~TW~
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TW is as high as a kite, by the sound of it!
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TW is as high as a kite, by the sound of it!
Very true 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
~TW~
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The seconds are ticking away for you as well so you well get all the evidence you need in time.
~TW~
So you assert. However, back in the real world, I'm still waiting for any glimpse of a scintilla of a morsel of evidence or the merest suggestion of a hint of an argument for your god...
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So you assert. However, back in the real world, I'm still waiting for any glimpse of a scintilla of a morsel of evidence or the merest suggestion of a hint of an argument for your god...
Find a tree say to the tree I'm thick your thick we are brothers. You are a time waster and the seconds are passing for you don't be floo/fool
~TW~
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Find a tree say to the tree I'm thick your thick we are brothers. You are a time waster and the seconds are passing for you don't be floo/fool
Back to bluster and insult.
Still waiting for any glimpse of a scintilla of a morsel of evidence or the merest suggestion of a hint of an argument for your god...
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Back to bluster and insult.
Still waiting for any glimpse of a scintilla of a morsel of evidence or the merest suggestion of a hint of an argument for your god...
You won't get any that is for sure.
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Also Khatru reads scripture takes it out of context, applies his own interpretation then says this is what you are thinking.
Out of context you say?
That's the fifth and sixth examples on my list of standard Christian cop-outs:
I don't understand because I need to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek
I don't understand because I need to view it from a child's perspective
I don't understand because I'm not a "true Christian"
I don't understand because I'm not a biblical scholar
I don't understand because I took the scripture out of context.
I don't understand because it means something other than what it actually says
I don't understand because it's an allegory
I don't understand because my mind is far too feeble to comprehend your god's truth
I don't understand because I've not been filled with the holy spirit
So what is the context for Psalm 14:1 and how have I changed its meaning?
If anything is taken out of context it's the scriptures you use to portray the Bible god as loving when he really wants to torture us for all eternity.
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Very true 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
~TW~
Colonic squirt of scripture.
Here's some more faecal incontinence from one of the supreme cosmic mega-being's other books...
"Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind). "If the sea were ink for (writing) the Words of my Lord, surely, the sea would be exhausted before the Words of my Lord would be finished, even if we brought (another sea) like it for its aid."
[#Quran 18:109]
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Colonic squirt of scripture.
Here's some more faecal incontinence from one of the supreme cosmic mega-being's other books...
"Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind). "If the sea were ink for (writing) the Words of my Lord, surely, the sea would be exhausted before the Words of my Lord would be finished, even if we brought (another sea) like it for its aid."
[#Quran 18:109]
False writings give them a miss.
~TW~
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False writings give them a miss.
~TW~
Not false.
They were written at the command of the supreme cosmic mega-being and dictated to Mohammed by none other than the Angel Gabriel himself.
It's true because it says so in the Quran.
Ps. Couldn't help but notice you didn't respond to my preceding post to you.
I'll take that as your tacit acceptance that what I say is correct.
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Not false.
They were written at the command of the supreme cosmic mega-being and dictated to Mohammed by none other than the Angel Gabriel himself.
It's true because it says so in the Quran.
Ps. Couldn't help but notice you didn't respond to my preceding post to you.
I'll take that as your tacit acceptance that what I say is correct.
Stil force the God of the Bible and the god of the koran contradict each other so hardly the same.You must do more research.
~TW~
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Stil force the God of the Bible and the god of the koran contradict each other so hardly the same.You must do more research.
~TW~
So they contradict.
So what.
How do you determine which, if any is true?
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Stil force the God of the Bible and the god of the koran contradict each other so hardly the same.You must do more research.
~TW~
The Qur'an and Bible are the same, they had human authors and no input from any god, imo.
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The Qur'an and Bible are the same, they had human authors and no input from any god, imo.
Floo you are now a few more hours nearer.
~TW@
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Stil force the God of the Bible and the god of the koran contradict each other so hardly the same.You must do more research.
~TW~
What do you expect when the supreme cosmic mega-being has a hand in at least two and probably more books?
You're practically a Muslim anyway.
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What do you expect when the supreme cosmic mega-being has a hand in at least two and probably more books?
You're practically a Muslim anyway.
So Mr brain box you fail to answer on the Isaiah thread so it seems you make it up as you go along.A reminder So why not ask the question and display the prophecy's you seem to make hard work of every thing do you have trouble getting dressed in the morning. ;D
~TW~
ps Ialso notice barmy toe is out and about.
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ps Ialso notice barmy toe is out and about.
Does your nurse know that you have access to a PC? ;D :-\
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So Mr brain box you fail to answer on the Isaiah thread so it seems you make it up as you go along.A reminder So why not ask the question and display the prophecy's you seem to make hard work of every thing do you have trouble getting dressed in the morning. ;D
~TW~
ps Ialso notice barmy toe is out and about.
Oh, don't worry.
I'll answer alright.
Then you can worry.
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Oh, don't worry.
I'll answer alright.
Then you can worry.
When Christmas.
~TW~
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When Christmas.
~TW~
25 December! ::)
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Floo you are now a few more hours nearer.
~TW@
What a thoroughly unpleasant person you are.
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Because that's exactly what the Bible says your god did.
Well, not quite. Not counting Noah and his so-called good stock, your god killed every single baby in the world.
Nice to see you admit that your god got it wrong.
1056 year gap between Adam and Noah. Not many babies in the world then?
As Adam over 900 years when he died... I cannot see there would be many babies can you given it started from a population of 2...
Go back to sleep till you can think of something sensible to say...
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Yes TW and why bring people's names into things, such as I quoted below? It is totally lacking in etiquette. We could all do that, if I scratched around no doubt I could find another poster who was like you; barely comprehensible and rude.
Find a tree say to the tree I'm thick your thick we are brothers. You are a time waster and the seconds are passing for you don't be floo/fool
~TW~
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TW has come to shed love and light and sunshine upon us all, just as the petals of the cherry blossom fall gently to earth. How lucky we are!
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I have come to the conclusion that 99.9% of you on this forum are completely mad,no wonder it is nearly dead.Thank God for facebook.
~TW~
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Forums are generally on the decline TW but this one is thriving. Every day there is something new, so I don't know what you mean.
Facebook and the like, where there is no lively debate, cannot replace forums.
It's good here, on the whole. Were that not the case we wouldn't be posting, would we?
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1056 year gap between Adam and Noah. Not many babies in the world then?
As Adam over 900 years when he died... I cannot see there would be many babies can you given it started from a population of 2...
Go back to sleep till you can think of something sensible to say...
So very credible, NOT!
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Forums are generally on the decline TW but this one is thriving. Every day there is something new, so I don't know what you mean.
Facebook and the like, where there is no lively debate, cannot replace forums.
It's good here, on the whole. Were that not the case we wouldn't be posting, would we?
Well intelligent life is not found here,except me
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TW has come to shed love and light and sunshine upon us all, just as the petals of the cherry blossom fall gently to earth. How lucky we are!
I believe that in Japan the phrase "the cherry blossoms are falling" is a sensitive euphemism to indicate that a student has failed his exams. I can certainly think of someone who is likely to have failed his exams....
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I have come to the conclusion that 99.9% of you on this forum are completely mad,no wonder it is nearly dead.Thank God for facebook.
~TW~
Cheerio then. ;D
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1056 year gap between Adam and Noah. Not many babies in the world then?
As Adam over 900 years when he died... I cannot see there would be many babies can you given it started from a population of 2...
Go back to sleep till you can think of something sensible to say...
What does the number of babies have to do with it?
I've seen how upset and mad you Christians get at the idea of terminating one single foetus let alone a living, breathing, human baby.
You worship a god who kills babies.
-
Well intelligent life is not found here,except me
You keep telling yourself that dear, LOL!
-
What does the number of babies have to do with it?
I've seen how upset and mad you Christians get at the idea of terminating one single foetus let alone a living, breathing, human baby.
You worship a god who kills babies.
I think what Sass means is you should read this http://www.ukapologetics.net/12/mcmurtry.htm
~TW~
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I think what Sass means is you should read this http://www.ukapologetics.net/12/mcmurtry.htm
If we were to conservatively say that a generation passed once every 25 years (and when was the last time a generation was 25 years long?), then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000 generations would occur. If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000 at any one time in the past, then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth. This is an astronomical number.
When people are buried, whether or not their bodies are preserved, there are the artifacts left in the graves which identify them as human. Even if the body decomposes completely their jewelry, tools and vessels placed in the grave with them will survive.
Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation. To date, however, even with all the money thrown into the search for them, we have only found about 300 'Neanderthal' skeletons. They have been found in caves from Spain to Syria to Israel.
ROTFLOL!
Thanks ~TW~, this guy is totally Upminster. Have you got any more joke pages like this?
-
If we were to conservatively say that a generation passed once every 25 years (and when was the last time a generation was 25 years long?), then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000 generations would occur. If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000 at any one time in the past, then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth. This is an astronomical number.
When people are buried, whether or not their bodies are preserved, there are the artifacts left in the graves which identify them as human. Even if the body decomposes completely their jewelry, tools and vessels placed in the grave with them will survive.
Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation. To date, however, even with all the money thrown into the search for them, we have only found about 300 'Neanderthal' skeletons. They have been found in caves from Spain to Syria to Israel.
ROTFLOL!
Thanks ~TW~, this guy is totally Upminster. Have you got any more joke pages like this?
Some of TW's posts are quite amusing as they are so very silly, maybe he is favouring a career as a stand up comic, LOL!
-
If we were to conservatively say that a generation passed once every 25 years (and when was the last time a generation was 25 years long?), then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000 generations would occur. If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000 at any one time in the past, then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth. This is an astronomical number.
When people are buried, whether or not their bodies are preserved, there are the artifacts left in the graves which identify them as human. Even if the body decomposes completely their jewelry, tools and vessels placed in the grave with them will survive.
Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation. To date, however, even with all the money thrown into the search for them, we have only found about 300 'Neanderthal' skeletons. They have been found in caves from Spain to Syria to Israel.
ROTFLOL!
Thanks ~TW~, this guy is totally Upminster. Have you got any more joke pages like this?
Lots so bad news for you. ::)
~TW~
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Lots so bad news for you. ::)
Why would it be bad news? Do share, I like a laugh.
Seriously though; surely nobody is actually stupid enough to swallow 'arguments' like this. I mean, really...?
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Why would it be bad news? Do share, I like a laugh.
Seriously though; surely nobody is actually stupid enough to swallow 'arguments' like this. I mean, really...?
Some extremely gullible people are taken in by the nonsense spouted by TW and his ilk, which is extremely sad.
-
Arguments like what so far all we had from you is waffle.
Its wrong waffle waffle and more waffle. ;D
~TW~
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Arguments like what[?] [S]o far all we had from you is waffle.
Do you seriously not see the problems with "Dr." McMurtry's "argument"?
Please give an example of the "waffle", of which you speak, and I will endeavour to clarify...
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Do you seriously not see the problems with "Dr." McMurtry's "argument"?
Please give an example of the "waffle", of which you speak, and I will endeavour to clarify...
To clarify is the waffle the one thing you have not done is clarify just----------------------------------waffle.
~TW~
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To clarify is the waffle the one thing you have not done is clarify just----------------------------------waffle.
Hello! Do you speak English?
I asked for an example, so I could clarify it for you.
-
To clarify is the waffle the one thing you have not done is clarify just----------------------------------waffle.
And you didn't answer this question: do you seriously not see the problems with "Dr." McMurtry's "argument"?
-
Arguments like what so far all we had from you is waffle.
Its wrong waffle waffle and more waffle. ;D
~TW~
Well you should know dear as the waffle maker in chief, LOL!
-
Some,
And you didn't answer this question: do you seriously not see the problems with "Dr." McMurtry's "argument"?
As T(roll)W didn't see the problem with the video he linked to of the buffoon who got evolution completely backwards, probably not.
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Some,
As T(roll)W didn't see the problem with the video he linked to of the buffoon who got evolution completely backwards, probably not.
So nothing from you bookends except it is wrong.Well the big bang is wrong so.
~TW~
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So nothing from you bookends except it is wrong.Well the big bang is wrong so.
Well, faced with such an erudite and rational argument, backed up with all that evidence...
Oh no, hang on, :-\ it was just baseless assertion, as usual...
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Some,
Well, faced with such an erudite and rational argument, backed up with all that evidence...
Oh no, hang on, :- it was just baseless assertion, as usual...
Actually it was just another of T(roll)W's flat out lies - I posted quite a long explanation of why the "preacher" got it wrong back when he linked to the video.
-
If we were to conservatively say that a generation passed once every 25 years (and when was the last time a generation was 25 years long?), then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000 generations would occur. If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000 at any one time in the past, then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth. This is an astronomical number.
When people are buried, whether or not their bodies are preserved, there are the artifacts left in the graves which identify them as human. Even if the body decomposes completely their jewelry, tools and vessels placed in the grave with them will survive.
Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation. To date, however, even with all the money thrown into the search for them, we have only found about 300 'Neanderthal' skeletons. They have been found in caves from Spain to Syria to Israel.
ROTFLOL!
Thanks ~TW~, this guy is totally Upminster. Have you got any more joke pages like this?
Yes this joke page is good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6ElA0--JNg
~TW~
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Yes this joke page is good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6ElA0--JNg
~TW~
It makes a change to agree with a creationist for once in my life. I'm in full agreement with you on this one, TW, this guy is a real joker!
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Yes this joke page is good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6ElA0--JNg
Before we move on to the next joker, perhaps you would acknowledge that the previous article (that I quoted) was clearly written by somebody dishonest, stupid or both?
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Before we move on to the next joker, perhaps you would acknowledge that the previous article (that I quoted) was clearly written by somebody dishonest, stupid or both?
My answer is all of you so far have said these people are a joke,but none of you have offered in anyway a counter claim so here is another joke for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJoOhbf3_Ts Try not to say joke back your reply with facts do something different.
~TW~
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Some,
Before we move on to the next joker, perhaps you would acknowledge that the previous article (that I quoted) was clearly written by somebody dishonest, stupid or both?
And for that matter that the preacher in the video he linked to got it flat out ass backwards re evolution, for reasons I explained at some length at the time.
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Some,
And for that matter that the preacher in the video he linked to got it flat out ass backwards re evolution, for reasons I explained at some length at the time.
Did you explain it, and your word is final. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LTaPIK7maY
~TW~
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My answer is all of you so far have said these people are a joke,but none of you have offered in anyway a counter claim
Sorry, I thought it would be blindingly obvious, even to you!
Let's look again at the piece I quoted:
If we were to conservatively say that a generation passed once every 25 years (and when was the last time a generation was 25 years long?), then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000 generations would occur. If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000 at any one time in the past, then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth. This is an astronomical number.
When people are buried, whether or not their bodies are preserved, there are the artifacts left in the graves which identify them as human. Even if the body decomposes completely their jewelry, tools and vessels placed in the grave with them will survive.
Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation. To date, however, even with all the money thrown into the search for them, we have only found about 300 'Neanderthal' skeletons. They have been found in caves from Spain to Syria to Israel.
Without even beginning to analyse how realistic, or otherwise, his assumptions are, we can see immediately that he can't translate them into numbers properly and then can't interpret his (faulty) calculations properly either.
First he says: "If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000". Then he concludes that "a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth". What he's actually done is multiply his maximum population estimate with the number of generations - the figure is the number of people who would have lived if the population had remained static at exactly 1,000,000.
He then goes on to say what a big number this is - even though it is somewhat less than the current living population of the world (over 7,000,000,000). This might give you a clue as the how accurate his conclusion is. He says "Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation". Really? Let's see. The land area of the Earth is about 500,000,000 km2, that's 5x1014 m2. Now, assuming everyone since the dawn of humanity was buried and a grave is about 2m2 (using his assumptions) 4,000,000,000 graves would take up a staggering 0.0016% of said area.
As I said, this is without even questioning his own, rather bizarre, assumptions.
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Sorry, I thought it would be blindingly obvious, even to you!
Let's look again at the piece I quoted:
If we were to conservatively say that a generation passed once every 25 years (and when was the last time a generation was 25 years long?), then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000 generations would occur. If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000 at any one time in the past, then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth. This is an astronomical number.
When people are buried, whether or not their bodies are preserved, there are the artifacts left in the graves which identify them as human. Even if the body decomposes completely their jewelry, tools and vessels placed in the grave with them will survive.
Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation. To date, however, even with all the money thrown into the search for them, we have only found about 300 'Neanderthal' skeletons. They have been found in caves from Spain to Syria to Israel.
Without even beginning to analyse how realistic, or otherwise, his assumptions are, we can see immediately that he can't translate them into numbers properly and then can't interpret his (faulty) calculations properly either.
First he says: "If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000". Then he concludes that "a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth". What he's actually done is multiply his maximum population estimate with the number of generations - the figure is the number of people who would have lived if the population had remained static at exactly 1,000,000.
He then goes on to say what a big number this is - even though it is somewhat less than the current living population of the world (over 7,000,000,000). This might give you a clue as the how accurate his conclusion is. He says "Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation". Really? Let's see. The land area of the Earth is about 500,000,000 km2, that's 5x1014 m2. Now, assuming everyone since the dawn of humanity was buried and a grave is about 2m2 (using his assumptions) 4,000,000,000 graves would take up a staggering 0.0016% of said area.
As I said, this is without even questioning his own, rather bizarre, assumptions.
well challenge him you can always send him an email.Then he will explain why you are wrong.
~TW~
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Some,
Sorry, I thought it would be blindingly obvious, even to you!
Let's look again at the piece I quoted:
If we were to conservatively say that a generation passed once every 25 years (and when was the last time a generation was 25 years long?), then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000 generations would occur. If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000 at any one time in the past, then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth. This is an astronomical number.
When people are buried, whether or not their bodies are preserved, there are the artifacts left in the graves which identify them as human. Even if the body decomposes completely their jewelry, tools and vessels placed in the grave with them will survive.
Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation. To date, however, even with all the money thrown into the search for them, we have only found about 300 'Neanderthal' skeletons. They have been found in caves from Spain to Syria to Israel.
Without even beginning to analyse how realistic, or otherwise, his assumptions are, we can see immediately that he can't translate them into numbers properly and then can't interpret his (faulty) calculations properly either.
First he says: "If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000". Then he concludes that "a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth". What he's actually done is multiply his maximum population estimate with the number of generations - the figure is the number of people who would have lived if the population had remained static at exactly 1,000,000.
He then goes on to say what a big number this is - even though it is somewhat less than the current living population of the world (over 7,000,000,000). This might give you a clue as the how accurate his conclusion is. He says "Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation". Really? Let's see. The land area of the Earth is about 500,000,000 km2, that's 5x1014 m2. Now, assuming everyone since the dawn of humanity was buried and a grave is about 2m2 (using his assumptions) 4,000,000,000 graves would take up a staggering 0.0016% of said area.
As I said, this is without even questioning his own, rather bizarre, assumptions.
Quite so. Just to another nail in the coffin of this bozo, he assumes too an even distribution of his claimed population number whereas populations tend to congregate in cities and similar. And funnily enough, you'll often find human remains when you dig in those areas as the frequency of finds when putting up office blocks in the City of London shows.
What does T(roll)W's repeated reliance on idiots for validation tell us I wonder?
-
well challenge him you can always send him an email.Then he will explain why you are wrong.
~TW~
Why don't YOU explain why you think he is right?
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well challenge him you can always send him an email.Then he will explain why you are wrong.
Why should I bother? If you think he's right (and you're not just blindly accepting what he says) then you tell me why I'm wrong and he's right.
I suspect you won't because you are too afraid to think about it, in case you realize that you've been misled...
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Why should I bother? If you think he's right (and you're not just blindly accepting what he says) then you tell me why I'm wrong and he's right.
I suspect you won't because you are too afraid to think about it, in case you realize that you've been misled...
No never-----I think he is right not in everything he says but a good guide.Also I do not rely on him solely and I like to feel that I check all things as best as possible,so until you can find something in the room where you are sitting that made itself.I have all the evidence I need. :)
~TW~
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No never-----I think he is right not in everything he says but a good guide.Also I do not rely on him solely and I like to feel that I check all things as best as possible,so until you can find something in the room where you are sitting that made itself.I have all the evidence I need.
So, you're easily led and you don't mind that people publish blatantly wrong arguments, as long as they support your views?
How about we follow up this silly argument of yours, then? Care to go through the reasoning about things making themselves? Or can't you even back up your own argument...?
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No never-----I think he is right not in everything he says but a good guide.Also I do not rely on him solely and I like to feel that I check all things as best as possible,so until you can find something in the room where you are sitting that made itself.I have all the evidence I need. :)
~TW~
Is that another way of saying ' nothing went bang' - inside your head! ::)
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Is that another way of saying ' nothing went bang' - inside your head! ::)
No but you are a pratt.
~TW~
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No but you are a pratt.
~TW~
I think spelling prat incorrectly shows who is a prat!
-
I think spelling prat incorrectly shows who is a prat!
... all the more so when you've made the same error before, have been told about it, and then do it again anyway.
As bluey has just said on another thread, there are some hardcore cases who simply don't care that they're wrong and are immune to criticism, ploughing on as wrongly as ever regardless.
-
... all the more so when you've made the same error before, have been told about it, and then do it again anyway.
As bluey has just said on another thread, there are some hardcore cases who simply don't care that they're wrong and are immune to criticism, ploughing on as wrongly as ever regardless.
Perhaps we should all stop feeding the troll?
-
Perhaps we should all stop feeding the troll?
Like dieting, it's simple and straightforward to know what you have to do; actually putting it into practice is far harder.
-
BR,
Perhaps we should all stop feeding the troll?
Yup. Be nice if we had a troll corner for them to play in too perhaps, but not feeding term at all is a start.
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Talking about being led is good, and pratt with two t's is good,very good, you on here I lead I can say that we are now in the 1000 years of Christ reign and Satan is bound and no christian can say sorry TW you are wrong,because we have no christians on here apart from me,{I refer to regular posters}, and tell me why I am wrong and you atheist are dead everywhere.
So a good position to be in a sort of TRUMP position.
~TW~
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Talking about being led is good, and pratt with two t's is good,very good, you on here I lead I can say that we are now in the 1000 years of Christ reign and Satan is bound and no christian can say sorry TW you are wrong,because we have no christians on here apart from me,{I refer to regular posters}, and tell me why I am wrong and you atheist are dead everywhere.
So a good position to be in a sort of TRUMP position.
So, you are arrogant as hell, daft as a brush, believe obviously wrong arguments, have no reasoning or evidence, and won't even attempt to back up anything of what you say. You'd have thought a god would be able to find someone who was a little more convincing...
::)
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Some,
So, you are arrogant as hell, daft as a brush, believe obviously wrong arguments, have no reasoning or evidence, and won't even attempt to back up anything of what you say. You'd have thought a god would be able to find someone who was a little more convincing...
You would wouldn't you, but a "Satan" wouldn't.
Maybe T(roll)W is like one of those characters in a John le Carré spy novel who thinks he's been leaking secrets to a friendly government but it turns out unwittingly he's actually been passing them to the bad guys instead.
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No but you are a pratt.
~TW~
A pratt as in
Buttocks
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/pratt
or
a type of truss consisting of both vertical and diagonal elements, the latter (except for those at either end) all slanting downward towards the centre of the truss.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/pratt
or slang, as in
A person that chatters or utters childishly or foolishly. British slang, derived from the word prattle.
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/pratt
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You would wouldn't you, but a "Satan" wouldn't.
Well, I guess if he's Satan's attempt at making Christianity look utterly stupid and nasty to boot, he's actually doing really, really well.
Then again, maybe it's all made up and he's just very gullible... :o :)
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A pratt as in
Buttocks
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/pratt
or
a type of truss consisting of both vertical and diagonal elements, the latter (except for those at either end) all slanting downward towards the centre of the truss.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/pratt
or slang, as in
A person that chatters or utters childishly or foolishly. British slang, derived from the word prattle.
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/pratt
Toe you know I am right have a look in your room and find something that made itself. My TRUMP position.A stronghold that cannot be broken.
~TW~
ps I will look in later.
-
My TRUMP position
So that's where the hot air is coming from.
-
So that's where the hot air is coming from.
Trump could launch thousands of hot balloons with the garbage he spouts, and so could TW, LOL!
-
What does the number of babies have to do with it?
I've seen how upset and mad you Christians get at the idea of terminating one single foetus let alone a living, breathing, human baby.
You worship a god who kills babies.
In the Kingdom of God no babies would be terminated.
You refer to the God of the Jews under a different covenant at a time when people were simply not civil or caring to one another.
You make up such silly statements as above and forget as many others do today that the Kingdom of God is not about the world.
Jesus said:-
King James Bible
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
Abortion and all the other subjects are matters for the world. They are not things of the Kingdom of God.
We simply would not get pregnant unless the baby wanted. We would not be so immature as to not take protection and have an unwanted pregnancy.
The Kingdom of God is about loving God and doing that which is right in the sight of God.
It is for Gods Children and we are not here to judge the world for what they do.
We love others regardless of what they are doing whilst we are living in the world and living as Gods people.
There is no us and them. The world and everything in it, belongs to God. So there is you and me but in my case there is God and I.
You go one from one failure of argument to another subject and failure of argument.
We, that is you and I, will never think the same unless you come to know the God who made you.
I have a relationship with God which is probably more important than any relationship I have ever had in my life.
It connects me to all that is in my life and every person I have ever known.
Why would God who loves me so much want me to treat others badly or think badly about them because they do
things I don't?
You live with whatever gets you through. But if you believe bad things about others without foundation do you really have anything that is real and good in your life?
Personally, every morning I have been thanking God for my healing, my family and all we have from him.
I see no reason to condemn or judge others for choosing how they want to live their lives.
In the Church of Gods people then we are responsible to support each other.
We cannot stop you believing what you do or stop you from tarring everyone with the same brush.
In reality, if you could have the same relationship with God, you would know the difference.
-
Some,
Well, I guess if he's Satan's attempt at making Christianity look utterly stupid and nasty to boot, he's actually doing really, really well.
I hear that Satan's offered him a pay rise for doing such a good job on his cloven-footed behalf...
Then again, maybe it's all made up and he's just very gullible... :o :)
Aw, say it ain't so my friend, say it ain't so!
-
...have a look in your room and find something that made itself...
You keep chanting this daft mantra but you won't actually reveal whatever bizarre "thought" process lies behind it.
Come on, I could do with a laugh, how about you outline the "reasoning" that takes this premise and then leads you to your conclusion (presumably goddidit 'cos he's magic)?
-
Before we move on to the next joker, perhaps you would acknowledge that the previous article (that I quoted) was clearly written by somebody dishonest, stupid or both?
I am unsure why TW or yourself introduced the Dr so I have looked up and found:-
Speaker's Background
B S, University of Tennessee, Institute of Agriculture - 1968
M S, State University of New York, College of Environmental Science - 1972
D D, School of Theology, Columbus, Georgia - 1996
D Litt, Mid-Continent University, Mayfield, Kentucky - 2011
Past Regent of the School of Theology, Columbus, Georgia
Adjunct Professor, School of Theology, Columbus, Georgia
Florida Christian College, Guest Lecturer
10 Years a Teacher of Evolution
1 1/2 Years a Theistic Evolutionist
40 Years a Biblical Scientific Creationist
Ordained Minister
Church Elder
Expert School Board Witness
Memberships
Creation Research Society (USA) - Life Member
Creation Research Society (Russia) - Member
Mensa - Life Member
Intertel - Life Member
Phi Kappa Phi - Life Member
Creation Studies Institute
Creation Science Association for Mid-America
Citizens for Science Integrity
Liberty Counsel (Past Chairman of the Board)
Publications
Creation: Our Foundation
Creation: Our Worldview
The World View
The Rock Newspaper
American Mensa Bulletin
The Forerunner
The Creationist
Predvestnik (Ukraine and Russia)
Today Magazine (South Africa)
Christian News (Christians for Truth-South Africa)
JOY! Magazine (South Africa)
The Christian Observer
- See more at: https://www.creationworldview.org/about-us/#sthash.MONPqe9l.dpuf
This is a Professional man of science and a doctor too. Good qualifications and a life time member of Mensa.
So guys having dissed this man maybe anyone who joined in will now give their university qualifications including life time member of mensa details and tell us why they think they know better than him to be able ridicule him?
ETA!!!!!
-
Toe you know I am right have a look in your room and find something that made itself. My TRUMP position.A stronghold that cannot be broken.
~TW~
ps I will look in later.
Can't see anything that made itself in my room. Do you know of anything that made itself, anywhere?
Do you know of anyone on this forum who has claimed that anything made itself? Please give references otherwise shut up.
Ps, you are a dunderhied. :)
-
Some,
I hear that Satan's offered him a pay rise for doing such a good job on his cloven-footed behalf...
Aw, say it ain't so my friend, say it ain't so!
Satan does not need to make anything look nasty.
Anyone who is not part of the Kingdom already a member of his.
Think about that... your sin keeps you with him. He is unlike you because he knows God exists.
The temptation of Christ shows even knows the OT scripture. But he cannot make someone who is known to the LORD God
fall through tempting them to sin.
Christ has made secure for all time the believer who believes he is the Son of God.
But the way you think shows that you mistake the simple facts. Satan does not have to make you do anything to keep you.
You do it for yourself by your own rejection of Christ and the truth about Gods word.
See how wrong your own thinking really is?
-
Satan does not need to make anything look nasty.
Anyone who is not part of the Kingdom already a member of his.
Think about that... your sin keeps you with him. He is unlike you because he knows God exists.
The temptation of Christ shows even knows the OT scripture. But he cannot make someone who is known to the LORD God
fall through tempting them to sin.
Christ has made secure for all time the believer who believes he is the Son of God.
But the way you think shows that you mistake the simple facts. Satan does not have to make you do anything to keep you.
You do it for yourself by your own rejection of Christ and the truth about Gods word.
See how wrong your own thinking really is?
Have you any idea how closed your thinking is?
-
This is a Professional man of science and a doctor too.
No Sassy, he isn't a "man of science" (professional or otherwise). His degree is in agriculture and his "doctorate" (in theology) is from a non-accredited collage.
He also makes absurd arguments and can't do his sums right, as I pointed out in #229.
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No Sassy, he isn't a "man of science" (professional or otherwise). His degree in agriculture and his "doctorate" (in theology) is from a non-accredited collage.
He also makes absurd arguments and can't do his sums right, as I pointed out in #229.
Spot on!
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Can't see anything that made itself in my room. Do you know of anything that made itself, anywhere?
Do you know of anyone on this forum who has claimed that anything made itself? Please give references otherwise shut up.
Ps, you are a dunderhied. :)
Learn to spell toe I think you were trying to write dunder-head.Now I am going to take a break from here. Sassy I do wish you well dear. I will look back but you do need to all sharpen up a bit,for your own sakes.
;D~TW~
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Now I am going to take a break from here.
Running away from backing up this daft "made itself" crap, then...
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Learn to spell toe I think you were trying to write dunder-head.
Nope, it is as it should be,
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dunderheid
maybe you need to learn to spell? ::)
Now I am going to take a break from here.
Well that's both a good and a bad thing.
Good in that the IQ average of the forum will increase somewhat.
Bad in that the sheer stupid comment level will decrease. (unless Sassy will increase her output to make up for your absence?)
Have fun with your sandwich board outings in the meanwhile!
http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2014/04/repent-the-end-is-nigh-ye-must-be-cleansed.png
..is that you on the right?
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I can say that we are now in the 1000 years of Christ reign
Which year are we in, within that 1000 years?
Can you say or are you not smart enough to figure it out?
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Has anyone here actually MET Satan ???
-
Has anyone here actually MET Satan ???
Or god?
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No Sassy, he isn't a "man of science" (professional or otherwise). His degree is in agriculture and his "doctorate" (in theology) is from a non-accredited collage.
He also makes absurd arguments and can't do his sums right, as I pointed out in #229.
AS you have never sat and listened to any of his lectures... only an idiot would dismiss him.
You do not have his qualifications or experience and education in the field as he has.
In 229 you pointed NOTHING out about his sums that actually proved any point.
Had you listened to his lectures and had his knowledge you might have learned something.
Now stop making comments you cannot and are not educated enough to justify. You are simply not in his league and have never heard him speak. You would probably skulk off into the corner because of your ignorance had you ever opened your eyes and mind long enough to listen to what he has to say. Try to educate yourself on what he teaches before dismissing him on the basis of your own ignorance and putting fingers in ears and closing your eyes because it does not suit you to listen and learn.
Your ignorance or opinion is unsustainable in the lack of your knowledge on what he actually teaches.
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No Sassy, he isn't a "man of science" (professional or otherwise). His degree is in agriculture and his "doctorate" (in theology) is from a non-accredited collage.
He also makes absurd arguments and can't do his sums right, as I pointed out in #229.
So collages are giving out doctorates... must leave the college feeling rather redundant....
A mere picture arrangement of it's former self...
::) ;D
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AS you have never sat and listened to any of his lectures... only an idiot would dismiss him.
You do not have his qualifications or experience and education in the field as he has.
In 229 you pointed NOTHING out about his sums that actually proved any point.
Had you listened to his lectures and had his knowledge you might have learned something.
Now stop making comments you cannot and are not educated enough to justify. You are simply not in his league and have never heard him speak. You would probably skulk off into the corner because of your ignorance had you ever opened your eyes and mind long enough to listen to what he has to say. Try to educate yourself on what he teaches before dismissing him on the basis of your own ignorance and putting fingers in ears and closing your eyes because it does not suit you to listen and learn.
Your ignorance or opinion is unsustainable in the lack of your knowledge on what he actually teaches.
Sassy
Reading through your last 20 posts a very consistent pattern emerges. Everyone other than TW are ignorant liars - and even TW isn't the right type of Christian.
Have you ever even once considered that perhaps it isn't that everyone other than you are wrong, but that it's you who needs to reassess your beliefs.
Don't bother replying to this, I know the answer.
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So collages are giving out doctorates... must leave the college feeling rather redundant....
A mere picture arrangement of it's former self...
::) ;D
Hartman’s Law "Any article or statement about correct grammar, punctuation, or spelling is bound to contain at least one error.”
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You do not have his qualifications or experience and education in the field as he has.
No, you are right (for once), I don't have a degree in agriculture nor a dodgy doctorate in theology.
However, neither are relevant to the absurd and error-ridden passage I was criticising.
In 229 you pointed NOTHING out about his sums that actually proved any point.
In that case, you will be able to point out, in detail, my mistakes and how "Dr" McMurtry's calculations and conclusions could be, in any way, justified.
I'll not hold my breath...
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Sassy
Reading through your last 20 posts a very consistent pattern emerges. Everyone other than TW are ignorant liars - and even TW isn't the right type of Christian.
Have you ever even once considered that perhaps it isn't that everyone other than you are wrong, but that it's you who needs to reassess your beliefs.
Don't bother replying to this, I know the answer.
Obviously you don't even tell the truth in your summary. I have shown out of the last 22 posts that 5 show no truth in calling anyone a liar which proves immediately that you never got what you stated from reading my last 20 posts.
What it really shows is you being less than truthful.
Printed the posts and proved what you said to be false.
Isaiah 54:17 King James Bible
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
The last 22 posts show that you did not find in 20 posts me calling them liars.
I have proved what you said false. So why state something NOT TRUE.
Quote from: Sassy on Today at 08:51:27 AM
AS you have never sat and listened to any of his lectures... only an idiot would dismiss him.
You do not have his qualifications or experience and education in the field as he has.
In 229 you pointed NOTHING out about his sums that actually proved any point.
Had you listened to his lectures and had his knowledge you might have learned something.
Now stop making comments you cannot and are not educated enough to justify. You are simply not in his league and have never heard him speak. You would probably skulk off into the corner because of your ignorance had you ever opened your eyes and mind long enough to listen to what he has to say. Try to educate yourself on what he teaches before dismissing him on the basis of your own ignorance and putting fingers in ears and closing your eyes because it does not suit you to listen and learn.
Your ignorance or opinion is unsustainable in the lack of your knowledge on what he actually teaches.
[/b]
No mention of calling anyone a liar in that last of the 20 posts...
I guess if you have to resort to false accusations you really are clutching at straws...
Here are the last 22. Two after my post above:-
[1] 2 3 ... 82
1
Prayers, Thoughts and Announcements / Re: Urgent prayers for my friend Becky Laird
« on: Today at 09:00:36 AM »
Romans 8:28
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
<>< LOVE ><>
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Never called anyone a liar there.
2
Christian Topic / Re: Who is a prophet?
« on: Today at 08:56:04 AM »
Quote from: Some Kind of Stranger on May 16, 2016, 01:13:36 PM
No Sassy, he isn't a "man of science" (professional or otherwise). His degree is in agriculture and his "doctorate" (in theology) is from a non-accredited collage.
He also makes absurd arguments and can't do his sums right, as I pointed out in #229.
So collages are giving out doctorates... must leave the college feeling rather redundant....
A mere picture arrangement of it's former self...
::) ;D
ReplyQuoteNotify
Never called anyone a liar there.
3
Christian Topic / Re: Who is a prophet?
« on: Today at 08:51:27 AM »
Quote from: Some Kind of Stranger on May 16, 2016, 01:13:36 PM
No Sassy, he isn't a "man of science" (professional or otherwise). His degree is in agriculture and his "doctorate" (in theology) is from a non-accredited collage.
He also makes absurd arguments and can't do his sums right, as I pointed out in #229.
AS you have never sat and listened to any of his lectures... only an idiot would dismiss him.
You do not have his qualifications or experience and education in the field as he has.
In 229 you pointed NOTHING out about his sums that actually proved any point.
Had you listened to his lectures and had his knowledge you might have learned something.
Now stop making comments you cannot and are not educated enough to justify. You are simply not in his league and have never heard him speak. You would probably skulk off into the corner because of your ignorance had you ever opened your eyes and mind long enough to listen to what he has to say. Try to educate yourself on what he teaches before dismissing him on the basis of your own ignorance and putting fingers in ears and closing your eyes because it does not suit you to listen and learn.
Your ignorance or opinion is unsustainable in the lack of your knowledge on what he actually teaches.
ReplyQuoteNotify
Never called anyone a liar there.
4
Christian Topic / Re: Jesus is the Son of God...
« on: Today at 07:59:53 AM »
Quote from: Maeght on Today at 07:56:36 AM
Its a genuine question. I didn't express a view. What was the purpose of the post?
In that case remove your posts from the thread they are not relevant to it.
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Never called anyone a liar there.
5
Christian Topic / Re: Jesus is the Son of God...
« on: Today at 07:57:29 AM »
Quote from: Thrud the Barbarian on May 16, 2016, 05:02:54 PM
Now this is exactly what the gospel writers did, scoured the Septuagint looking for any verses to plunder as "as it says in the scripture".
This is NOT a messianic passage, but someone assuring his nation, his race that their god has not forgotten them.
Always makes me laugh when evil genitals try to shoehorn these sort of passages up Jesus' passage!!
However you phrase your reply it won't change the fact that the writings are the PROMISE of a new Covenant.
God is not a liar and I have never seen such a reply which denies the passage which clearly confirms a new covenant.
As the Jews knew the Messiah would bring Gods final truth we see that covenant clearly taught by Christ.
You can wriggle all you want but the new covenant came in through Christ and the Messiah. What proves it clearly is that Gods people always have had a covenant with him. Abraham having the first covenant.
Quote
Nice little story, but that is all it is. Written by some anonymous blokes decades after "Jesus'" execution by the Romans.
The proof of the passage is clearly in doing what they did upon hearing about Christ.
So again your answer is a little bit like bad eggs.
Quote
Again, a lovely little story. Written by someone who had never met Jesus, but had heard enough about him to believe he could give more flesh to the character than was being peddled at the time.
It has been determined that John was written by a highly educated Greek aristocrat in the late 1st century. ( 90-120 C.E. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/john.html ) at the very least some 60 years after the execution of "Jesus". So not really an "eyewitness" account now is it?
Once again you need to read the bible and realise that believers now as in Jeremiah 31:31-34 do not any longer rely on a written word or covenant. They rely on the truth of that covenant.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Sin blocked the way for man to know God. Christ removed that veil. As the Prophets and Christ before them, the believers now are taught by God himself by the presence of Gods Spirit within them.
So not like the old covenant by the obeying of the words but by the change within being taught by the giver of the words to men the Holy Spirit.
Christ told us... " My words are Spirit and they are life." It was the anointing of the Spirit, even with the disciples in acts 2 that made them the children of God and able to perform all the miracles they did.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
John 16:13... You can really see the reality in the bible by the actual truths that happen within the pages.
Belief in Christ and the receiving of the Holy Spirit are what make the children of God part of the Covenant of Christ.
The reason Christ tells us if we obey his words we will KNOW (experience) the truth and it will set us free.
King James Bible
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
Spirit and Truth are the main vein of truth throughout the bible. OT and NT....
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Never called anyone a liar there.
6
Christian Topic / Re: Jesus is the Son of God...
« on: Today at 07:43:10 AM »
Quote from: Maeght on May 13, 2016, 08:13:01 AM
Good morning Sassy,
I have a genuine question as to your purpose for posting that. It mostly seems like a genuine expression of your beliefs posted on a Christian topic section which is all fine but amongst it you make a comment about atheists which is bound to provoke comments back and set off another thread where people snipe at each other and get sarcsatic. It will be pointed out that this is 'just your beliefs' and there won't be any real discussion so I just wondered what the purpose of the post was.
Stirring the pot again. Isn't that what the genuine not question about?
Your view is incorrect also prejudicial and without foundation. Seems you atheist cannot take your own credit and responsibility for stirring.
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Never called anyone a liar there.
7
Christian Topic / Re: Mary Magdalene.
« on: May 16, 2016, 01:41:29 PM »
Quote from: ippy on May 11, 2016, 10:56:54 AM
Sass do you ever think to yourself something like; those blasted non-believers have actually got something, but sod em, fingers in the ears close the eyes la la la la la la la la?
I say the above because I find it difficult to believe that anyone can so readly and almost willingly defy reason and logic on such a large scale, you don't even seem to be able to understand when Blue reminds you about your circular argument, you have never shown in any way that you can even understand exactly what it is Blue is saying.
Surly you're not that thick Sass?
ippy
You defy logic everyday with your astounding ignorance in the face of creation itself.
You have no logical reason in the face of science for why you or here exists.
The truth is there is no reason or logic for a person not to believe in God/creator.
Hence your post shows you deceive yourself and have no real educated reason for making such a statement.
I guess I am on the winning side when it comes to logic and what we have around us...
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Never called anyone a liar there.
8
Christian Topic / Re: Isaiah 52:13-53: whatever..
« on: May 16, 2016, 01:36:57 PM »
Quote from: Floo on May 16, 2016, 01:31:21 PM
Hitler committed suicide, nothing to do with any deity.
Read two posts before yours...
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9
Christian Topic / Re: Isaiah 52:13-53: whatever..
« on: May 16, 2016, 01:35:33 PM »
Quote from: jjohnjil on May 16, 2016, 01:28:01 PM
You tell us it isn't the doctors and surgeons who cure people of life threatening diseases, it's God.
God made the way for surgery known and possible. In Genesis 2 :21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
God performed the first surgery and gave the idea man could be put to sleep and not feel the pain.
As he created doctors and gave the first idea for healing medicines through the bible. He gets my vote.
Opps forgot he created mans body and the men who operate.
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When a paramedic pulls someone out of an accident and gives them heart massage to save their life, it's Goddidit.
God created a heart that could massaged. Mouth to mouth resusitation came from the bible too.
It was these verses that made the person who thought of mouth to mouth resusitation think of the possibility.
34 And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm.
35 Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes.
Quote
But when Hitler ordered 7 million murders, there's no Goddidit involved! It was all Hitler's fault, only he was responsible for his evil.
Weird!
What you compare murder to saving life?
Grow up and don't make yourself look so stupid.
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Never called anyone a liar there.
10
Christian Topic / Re: Isaiah 52:13-53: whatever..
« on: May 16, 2016, 01:28:44 PM »
Quote from: Sebastian Toe on May 16, 2016, 01:19:16 PM
Hitler was executed?
As it says
Quote
Hitler was not just brought down or executed
He shot himself in a bunker.
Why? Because he was utterly defeated with no where to run.
So Hitler not just brought down or executed. He was driven and his plans completely destroyed till he had to take his own life.
To bring him down or just execute him would have made him a martyr to some. His cause would never have ran full circle and his evil would never have been fully realised. However, it run it's course and it brought about his own destruction and disgrace in failure.
A permanent reminder and warning to anyone who believes they can actually get away with such evil that they cannot.
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11
Christian Topic / Re: Isaiah 52:13-53: whatever..
« on: May 16, 2016, 01:14:47 PM »
In Psalm 139
13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Every persons days are in a book before they begin.
Hitler was not just brought down or executed so that his beliefs could be continued by someone else.
God not only defeated his armies and his plans he completely destroyed Hitler. Destroyed him in such a way he would never
rise again. It is a message to all who would dominate the world and society with evil and lies.
In the end God has the final say to mans plans.
Hitler was responsible for his own evil.
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12
Christian Topic / Re: Who is a prophet?
« on: May 16, 2016, 01:05:16 PM »
Quote from: bluehillside on May 16, 2016, 12:43:23 PM
Some,
I hear that Satan's offered him a pay rise for doing such a good job on his cloven-footed behalf...
Aw, say it ain't so my friend, say it ain't so!
Satan does not need to make anything look nasty.
Anyone who is not part of the Kingdom already a member of his.
Think about that... your sin keeps you with him. He is unlike you because he knows God exists.
The temptation of Christ shows even knows the OT scripture. But he cannot make someone who is known to the LORD God
fall through tempting them to sin.
Christ has made secure for all time the believer who believes he is the Son of God.
But the way you think shows that you mistake the simple facts. Satan does not have to make you do anything to keep you.
You do it for yourself by your own rejection of Christ and the truth about Gods word.
See how wrong your own thinking really is?
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13
Christian Topic / Re: Who is a prophet?
« on: May 16, 2016, 12:58:53 PM »
Quote from: Some Kind of Stranger on May 16, 2016, 08:39:31 AM
Before we move on to the next joker, perhaps you would acknowledge that the previous article (that I quoted) was clearly written by somebody dishonest, stupid or both?
I am unsure why TW or yourself introduced the Dr so I have looked up and found:-
Quote
Speaker's Background
B S, University of Tennessee, Institute of Agriculture - 1968
M S, State University of New York, College of Environmental Science - 1972
D D, School of Theology, Columbus, Georgia - 1996
D Litt, Mid-Continent University, Mayfield, Kentucky - 2011
Past Regent of the School of Theology, Columbus, Georgia
Adjunct Professor, School of Theology, Columbus, Georgia
Florida Christian College, Guest Lecturer
10 Years a Teacher of Evolution
1 1/2 Years a Theistic Evolutionist
40 Years a Biblical Scientific Creationist
Ordained Minister
Church Elder
Expert School Board Witness
Memberships
Creation Research Society (USA) - Life Member
Creation Research Society (Russia) - Member
Mensa - Life Member
Intertel - Life Member
Phi Kappa Phi - Life Member
Creation Studies Institute
Creation Science Association for Mid-America
Citizens for Science Integrity
Liberty Counsel (Past Chairman of the Board)
Publications
Creation: Our Foundation
Creation: Our Worldview
The World View
The Rock Newspaper
American Mensa Bulletin
The Forerunner
The Creationist
Predvestnik (Ukraine and Russia)
Today Magazine (South Africa)
Christian News (Christians for Truth-South Africa)
JOY! Magazine (South Africa)
The Christian Observer
- See more at: https://www.creationworldview.org/about-us/#sthash.MONPqe9l.dpuf
This is a Professional man of science and a doctor too. Good qualifications and a life time member of Mensa.
So guys having dissed this man maybe anyone who joined in will now give their university qualifications including life time member of mensa details and tell us why they think they know better than him to be able ridicule him?
ETA!!!!!
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14
Christian Topic / Re: Who is a prophet?
« on: May 16, 2016, 12:40:28 PM »
Quote from: Khatru on May 14, 2016, 11:10:06 AM
What does the number of babies have to do with it?
I've seen how upset and mad you Christians get at the idea of terminating one single foetus let alone a living, breathing, human baby.
You worship a god who kills babies.
In the Kingdom of God no babies would be terminated.
You refer to the God of the Jews under a different covenant at a time when people were simply not civil or caring to one another.
You make up such silly statements as above and forget as many others do today that the Kingdom of God is not about the world.
Jesus said:-
King James Bible
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
Abortion and all the other subjects are matters for the world. They are not things of the Kingdom of God.
We simply would not get pregnant unless the baby wanted. We would not be so immature as to not take protection and have an unwanted pregnancy.
The Kingdom of God is about loving God and doing that which is right in the sight of God.
It is for Gods Children and we are not here to judge the world for what they do.
We love others regardless of what they are doing whilst we are living in the world and living as Gods people.
There is no us and them. The world and everything in it, belongs to God. So there is you and me but in my case there is God and I.
You go one from one failure of argument to another subject and failure of argument.
We, that is you and I, will never think the same unless you come to know the God who made you.
I have a relationship with God which is probably more important than any relationship I have ever had in my life.
It connects me to all that is in my life and every person I have ever known.
Why would God who loves me so much want me to treat others badly or think badly about them because they do
things I don't?
You live with whatever gets you through. But if you believe bad things about others without foundation do you really have anything that is real and good in your life?
Personally, every morning I have been thanking God for my healing, my family and all we have from him.
I see no reason to condemn or judge others for choosing how they want to live their lives.
In the Church of Gods people then we are responsible to support each other.
We cannot stop you believing what you do or stop you from tarring everyone with the same brush.
In reality, if you could have the same relationship with God, you would know the difference.
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15
Literature, Music, Art & Entertainment / Re: Music was my first love...
« on: May 16, 2016, 07:59:51 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkI-B2JWSZI
Somewhere out there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN4AGVq1XG0
Jesu joy of mans desiring. Bach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6XUFbkTQNM
Ode to joy. Beethoven
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16
Literature, Music, Art & Entertainment / Re: Music was my first love...
« on: May 16, 2016, 07:26:02 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP5TiEGSRog
Dirty dancing mix.
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17
Christian Topic / Re: What/Who is a Christian
« on: May 15, 2016, 11:44:53 AM »
I think TW, likes to go beyond the teachings of Christ at times. Making himself judge and juror.
We see Christ tell us that he is the way, the truth and the life.
In Acts 10:35-45 we see Peter preach the good news about Jesus Christ and those who believe receive the Holy Spirit.
The resurrection spoken about by TW applies to those who confess Christ and die rather than worship the Beast.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
When Peter spoke of Christ being the truth and the life, he never mentioned any resurrection but that of Christ.
He like the Disciples knew that Christ sent the Holy Spirit to teach us and lead us into all truth. Even tell us of the things to come.
John 4:22-24 tells us true worshippers are born of the Spirit and Truth.
Believing the truth about Jesus Christ causes believers to be baptised in the Holy Spirit.
God putting his truth within mankind in his last covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34.
A believer cannot tell another if they are saved or not. The wheat and tares grow together till Christ comes.
We believe Jesus is the Son of God and we are saved through what he did. No man has the right to pronounce Judgment over his fellow man. Because anyone who confesses Christ is Lord is cannot say this unless by the power of the Holy Ghost.
King James Bible
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
I believe sometimes people get ahead of themselves and use methods and beliefs not preached to judge others.
King James Bible
Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
How can Christ not confess anyone whom confesses him to be the Son of God?
Truth is God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have eternal life.
It is sad that people chop and change to make what they want to believe fit in without proper reverance for the words spoken by Gods Son, which incidentally came from God.
God is love he is a God of truth.
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18
Science and Technology / Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« on: May 15, 2016, 11:20:19 AM »
If using the same faked sites then they can show what they want...
Why did the real footage and most of the photographs and of course the moon rock disappear in the 1980's.
We know that no COUNTRY who had all that important documentation would lose it... Would they?
The USA government cannot keep their most precious information safe...
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19
Science and Technology / Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« on: May 15, 2016, 10:31:18 AM »
Watch this:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lltT1wPZDkc
The maker of the film gagged why if nothing to hide.
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20
Science and Technology / Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« on: May 15, 2016, 10:11:29 AM »
Quote from: ProfessorDavey on March 30, 2016, 12:21:23 PM
Why don't you try to learn something rather than spout conspiracy theorist drivel.
You might want to start here:
http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/VABraddose.htm
In this article the author carefully assesses theoretical radiation levels (which are likely to be of little consequence during the rapid transit through the Van Allen belt during a lunar mission, within the command module with its extensive shielding. He also helpfully gives the actual readings for all the Apollo missions - guess what - they actually measured it for the astronauts.
He also debunks the notion that Van Allen himself claimed a lunar mission would be lethal - he didn't. He suggested the radiation received by satellites that spent two years continually bombarded by the radiation and without shielding would be lethal. That isn't the same thing whatsoever.
The first lunar model and suits had no protecting against the Van Allen belt.
The truth is that it would NOT KILL INSTANTLY but the overall affect means they would die some time after returning.
The problem is that there are many physicist today who believe that man never went to the moon and all equally qualified as those at Nasa.
Again we have to decided on evidence as a whole. How did the moon rocks come to have numbers on them?
How did Neil Armstrongs boots leave a different footprint to the boot he actually wore?
Today, I would have no problem believing they landed on the moon. But in 1969 I do not believe they could have done.
Nor do I believe they had the protection necessary to do it safely.
It was in Nixon's presidency and we all know what a liar and cheat he turned out to be.
What is clear they somehow lost precious footage and pictures including the moon rock in the 80's. Who puts material like that in a place it can be wiped or stolen?
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21
Science and Technology / Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« on: May 15, 2016, 10:00:57 AM »
Quote from: Gordon on March 30, 2016, 12:12:55 PM
References please.
Oh Please is that the reaction of a truly open mind.
If one thing the atheist are good at, it is claiming an open mind. If you have never read the works of a physicist who claimed
the moon landing to be fake then you have never really studied the evidence or writing about it.
So get your own references as open minded people like myself already did.
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My Husband Directed The Fake Moon Landing Says Stanley Kubrick's Widow.
Without the scientist there are obvious proofs.
Was she a liar? Stanley Kubrick directed from his home and he later borrowed stuff from the USA to use in a film he made.
An honest man whose life was shattered by the secret.
Who is telling the truth?
Why is the boot Neil Armstrong wore different tread to picture of the boot picture taken on the moon?
The suits weren't even the same. The one he was pictured in was not the same as the one on show which was suppose to be his. Good film makers need continuity.
DiD YOU know they lost the original footage and the moon rock they bought back in the 80's and only have the bad footage shown on the night all grainy.
If reading with an open mind you would not need me to tell you the name of the scientist.
You would know them already.
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General Discussion / Re: Should women be forced to wear high heels at work?
« on: May 14, 2016, 09:56:00 AM »
Quote from: Rose on May 12, 2016, 08:09:24 AM
If you didn't like them you could make it stilettos and stamp hard. ;)
;D
Do blokes really say that to women?
I'm not sure a bloke would survive if I walked up his back in a pair of high heels. He'd never walk again, probably.
He'd get laughed at by his mates as they carried him off, for being so daft :o
I guess some men think some women like that type of thing being said to them.
I personally would find it insulting and disrespectful. It means they are not seeing the person themselves or seeing them as decent and I would probably give him a slap for insulting me.
And Rose, you made me laugh.. you mean you would walk all over his back for his mates to see...
I rather took that to mean you would do it there and then to show how ill thought his comment was... ;D :D ;D :)
Gets my vote girl... you trample him under foot for being so insulting and forward.. LOL.. ;D ;D
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Sass your posts are ridiculously long. There is a separate topic to discuss moon landings on the science board!
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I think what Sass means is you should read this http://www.ukapologetics.net/12/mcmurtry.htm
~TW~
"Evolutionary assumptions"?
Lol! How did you find this guy? Did you work your way through 99% of scientists, discarding their views until you found this one guy whose views match your superstitious mumbo jumbo?
The field of evolutionary studies provides the best explanations we have for how we got to where we are now.
There's just no getting away from the fact that science has boxed creationism into a corner. This leaves creationists with very few options open to them save for coming up with increasingly ludicrous flights of fancy. Why? Because there's no other way they can fit the increasing number of facts into their ju-ju.
I know it's upsetting for you but it's plain to see that you would love to have the same amount of supporting evidence for your ju-ju as evolution has. Unfortunately for you, that's just not happening.
Want to disprove evolution? There are millions, probably billions of pieces of data we now have. You'd better get busy.
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"Evolutionary assumptions"?
Lol! How did you find this guy? Did you work your way through 99% of scientists, discarding their views until you found this one guy whose views match your superstitious mumbo jumbo?
The field of evolutionary studies provides the best explanations we have for how we got to where we are now.
There's just no getting away from the fact that science has boxed creationism into a corner. This leaves creationists with very few options open to them save for coming up with increasingly ludicrous flights of fancy. Why? Because there's no other way they can fit the increasing number of facts into their ju-ju.
I know it's upsetting for you but it's plain to see that you would love to have the same amount of supporting evidence for your ju-ju as evolution has. Unfortunately for you, that's just not happening.
Want to disprove evolution? There are millions, probably billions of pieces of data we now have. You'd better get busy.
He gave lectures on the television. You must have missed them.
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In the Kingdom of God no babies would be terminated.
You refer to the God of the Jews under a different covenant at a time when people were simply not civil or caring to one another.
You make up such silly statements as above and forget as many others do today that the Kingdom of God is not about the world.
Jesus said:-
King James Bible
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
Abortion and all the other subjects are matters for the world. They are not things of the Kingdom of God.
We simply would not get pregnant unless the baby wanted. We would not be so immature as to not take protection and have an unwanted pregnancy.
The Kingdom of God is about loving God and doing that which is right in the sight of God.
It is for Gods Children and we are not here to judge the world for what they do.
We love others regardless of what they are doing whilst we are living in the world and living as Gods people.
There is no us and them. The world and everything in it, belongs to God. So there is you and me but in my case there is God and I.
You go one from one failure of argument to another subject and failure of argument.
We, that is you and I, will never think the same unless you come to know the God who made you.
I have a relationship with God which is probably more important than any relationship I have ever had in my life.
It connects me to all that is in my life and every person I have ever known.
Why would God who loves me so much want me to treat others badly or think badly about them because they do
things I don't?
You live with whatever gets you through. But if you believe bad things about others without foundation do you really have anything that is real and good in your life?
Personally, every morning I have been thanking God for my healing, my family and all we have from him.
I see no reason to condemn or judge others for choosing how they want to live their lives.
In the Church of Gods people then we are responsible to support each other.
We cannot stop you believing what you do or stop you from tarring everyone with the same brush.
In reality, if you could have the same relationship with God, you would know the difference.
I get it.
You're saying that your god was once a baby killer but everything is alright now because he's changed his mind.
Are you sure about all this?
Not only does your god kill babies but he even has instructions on how to carry out abortions written into the Bible.
Perhaps you should read Numbers 5:11-31
Abortion is approved by the god of the Bible
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I am unsure why TW or yourself introduced the Dr so I have looked up and found:-
This is a Professional man of science and a doctor too. Good qualifications and a life time member of Mensa.
So guys having dissed this man maybe anyone who joined in will now give their university qualifications including life time member of mensa details and tell us why they think they know better than him to be able ridicule him?
ETA!!!!!
Don't see much science in that list at all.
Plenty of superstition and mumbo jumbo though!
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I get it.
You're saying that your god was once a baby killer but everything is alright now because he's changed his mind.
Are you sure about all this?
Not only does your god kill babies but he even has instructions on how to carry out abortions written into the Bible.
Perhaps you should read Numbers 5:11-31
Abortion is approved by the god of the Bible
The above has nothing to do with what I wrote.
NEXT!
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The above has nothing to do with what I wrote.
NEXT!
Attagirl, Sass!
Just sweep the baby killing deeds of your god under the carpet.
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Attagirl, Sass!
Just sweep the baby killing deeds of your god under the carpet.
Everything god does is right, however wrong!
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He gave lectures on the television. You must have missed them.
And...?
I've seen an awful lot of drivel on television, haven't you?
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And...?
I've seen an awful lot of drivel on television, haven't you?
I have seen his 'lectures' and it makes you want to throw something at the screen!
I am no expert, but I understand evolution far better than he does, or certainly more than he demonstrates.
His lectures are intended for the clueless and gullible. Anyone who knows anything is shouting at the screen about his mistakes.
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Sassy
Please don't pollute the thread with all your posts again but would you like to estimate how many posters you've called ignorant ... and when you tell someone they 'really know' - in my book that's calling them a liar.
And have you ever once considered that it my be you whose mistaken and not every other poster?
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Sassy, like several others here, isn't the type to entertain the possibility that she may be mistaken.
I find such people, paradoxically, simultaneously radically uninteresting and faintly chilling.
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Sassy, like several others here, isn't the type to entertain the possibility that she may be mistaken.
I find such people, paradoxically, simultaneously radically uninteresting and faintly chilling.
I just wonder if they would rely on a 2000 year old medical book if they caught something nasty.
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And...?
I've seen an awful lot of drivel on television, haven't you?
More so from people on forums like yourself, who select what they deem drivel due to being uneducated in both the fields of religion and science.
It would be foolish to call anything this man says drivel without hearing his reasons and looking at his evidence.
Do you do this a lot? I examine both scientific evidence and Gods word..
It isn't hard to see whether what I am looking at and hearing have any real basis when I ask the relevant questions.
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More so from people on forums like yourself, who select what they deem drivel due to being uneducated in both the fields of religion and science.
It would be foolish to call anything this man says drivel without hearing his reasons and looking at his evidence.
Do you do this a lot? I examine both scientific evidence and Gods word..
It isn't hard to see whether what I am looking at and hearing have any real basis when I ask the relevant questions.
Sass your posts, which are often overlong and don't make much sense, don't give the impression you really understand what you are on about.
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No never-----I think he is right not in everything he says but a good guide.Also I do not rely on him solely and I like to feel that I check all things as best as possible,so until you can find something in the room where you are sitting that made itself.I have all the evidence I need. :)
~TW~
In my room I have a collection of rock samples all labelled.
The forces/elements/conditions on earth made those rocks.
I'm sat in my chair and exactly the same things acting on the rocks, created and acted on life and after billions of years here I am.
:D
My latest addition is a lump of Bismuth, grown from crystals. ( wonderful looking stuff, formed by crystals. Have a look, looks like someone made it that way on purpose)
Look at some of the beautiful patterns in natural granite
http://www.123rf.com/photo_19138267_granite-samples-collection.html?fromid=RFR6TmhrcG1yM1VacE5hVWJyaGxBdz09
Some of it looks like it was manufactured so regular is the pattern.
It seems unbelievable sometimes that it is purely natural.
All man does is polish it to bring out the natural beauty.
Life was formed from the same things that acted on those rocks, our unique intelligence gave us the polish, and here we are now pondering on how something as intricate as us could have evolved.
Look at the beauty of those rocks, think about what formed them.
We are like the polished granite.
This is my evidence.
:)
Now it could be something put all this in place, don't know, but it is beautiful anyway, without adding God.
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More so from people on forums like yourself, who select what they deem drivel due to being uneducated in both the fields of religion and science.
It would be foolish to call anything this man says drivel without hearing his reasons and looking at his evidence.
I'll direct you again to #229 and again challenge to go through the "argument" from "Dr" McMurtry and my response, in detail, and show me my mistakes and how "Dr" McMurtry is not being stupid, dishonest or both.
Again, I'll not hold my breath, because all you seem capable of of is ranting, bluster, and insult.
I examine both scientific evidence and Gods word..
While you are forever quoting from what you seem to think is "god's word", I have seen no evidence that you have ever considered science at all - or even know what it is, for that matter.
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Are some here actually bothered about the 'TRUTH' or just looking for something that coincides with what they already THINK is the truth ????
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Sassy,
I examine both scientific...
Clearly not true. If you knew the first thing about science you would not for example make bizarre statements about only some planets having gravity.
...evidence and Gods word.
But we know that, despite countless times of being asked, you have no argument if any kind to demonstrate that it is "God's word" rather than just some words in a book.
Rather than respond with your usual abuse and irrelevance, why not now take the time to withdraw the planet/gravity nonsense and to explain how you'd break the circularity of "god is real because a book says so/the book is correct because a god made it so"?
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I'll direct you again to #229 and again challenge to go through the "argument" from "Dr" McMurtry and my response, in detail, and show me my mistakes and how "Dr" McMurtry is not being stupid, dishonest or both.
Again, I'll not hold my breath, because all you seem capable of of is ranting, bluster, and insult.
While you are forever quoting from what you seem to think is "god's word", I have seen no evidence that you have ever considered science at all - or even know what it is, for that matter.
You haven't challenged him yet.
Bring the arguments and the proof of the statement and accusation you make.
You have not done either yet. He has nothing to worry about because we both know if face to face you would die of embarrassment as he showed you have no information just your opinion.
He also uses the findings of other scientist and papers published by scientist in the magazines for scientist.
Guess how I know. I have noted the published articles with past thread discussions and posts.
Where do you believe TW thought up his little scrap to throw amongst you?
You are desperate and it shows... You cannot even produce an argument to prove him wrong.
WHY? Because you are frightened someone may have published something since showing you wrong.
Look no matter just back out now and no more said unless you really want to go down that road.
In which case we wait proof.
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You haven't challenged him yet.
[blah, blah, blah]
I'll take that as an admission that you can't see what is wrong with my post and how "Dr" McMurtry can be right. How and why should I challenge him? He's clearly a fool or dishonest.
You cannot even produce an argument to prove him wrong.
This is a blatant lie.
My detailed argument is in #229; try reading it. Even ~TW~ gave up on defending this numpty's argument.
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I'll take that as an admission that you can't see what is wrong with my post and how "Dr" McMurtry can be right. How and why should I challenge him? He's clearly a fool or dishonest.
This is a blatant lie.
My detailed argument is in #229; try reading it. Even ~TW~ gave up on defending this numpty's argument.
That post is to TW and has NO EVIDENCE OR EVEN ARGUMENTS USING SCIENCE ON YOUR BEHALF.
Sorry, I thought it would be blindingly obvious, even to you!
Let's look again at the piece I quoted:
If we were to conservatively say that a generation passed once every 25 years (and when was the last time a generation was 25 years long?), then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000 generations would occur. If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000 at any one time in the past, then in 100,000 years a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth. This is an astronomical number.
When people are buried, whether or not their bodies are preserved, there are the artifacts left in the graves which identify them as human. Even if the body decomposes completely their jewelry, tools and vessels placed in the grave with them will survive.
Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation. To date, however, even with all the money thrown into the search for them, we have only found about 300 'Neanderthal' skeletons. They have been found in caves from Spain to Syria to Israel.
Without even beginning to analyse how realistic, or otherwise, his assumptions are, we can see immediately that he can't translate them into numbers properly and then can't interpret his (faulty) calculations properly either.
First he says: "If the number of people on earth never exceeded 1,000,000". Then he concludes that "a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth". What he's actually done is multiply his maximum population estimate with the number of generations - the figure is the number of people who would have lived if the population had remained static at exactly 1,000,000.
He then goes on to say what a big number this is - even though it is somewhat less than the current living population of the world (over 7,000,000,000). This might give you a clue as the how accurate his conclusion is. He says "Based upon evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation". Really? Let's see. The land area of the Earth is about 500,000,000 km2, that's 5x1014 m2. Now, assuming everyone since the dawn of humanity was buried and a grave is about 2m2 (using his assumptions) 4,000,000,000 graves would take up a staggering 0.0016% of said area.
As I said, this is without even questioning his own, rather bizarre, assumptions.
GIVE ALL THE EVIDENCE HE HAS USED AND THEN COUNTER ACT THAT EVIDENCE WITH YOUR OWN.
Until you can produce and show all evidence he has used then you cannot say he is wrong nor can you dismiss his arguments.
So go on get to it... :)
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That post is to TW and has NO EVIDENCE OR EVEN ARGUMENTS USING SCIENCE ON YOUR BEHALF.
It points out exactly where he has gone wrong.
GIVE ALL THE EVIDENCE HE HAS USED AND THEN COUNTER ACT THAT EVIDENCE WITH YOUR OWN.
That's exactly what I've done. If you think I've made a mistake, point it out.
Just yelling that I'm wrong, makes you look stupid.
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Just yelling that I'm wrong, makes you look stupid.
But that tactic is from the Sassy book of debating, paragraph 2 subsection 1.
;D
Just wait till you get a scriptural text, quoted in bold, thrown at you, then you will know that you are really, really, really wrong! ::)