Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: ~TW~ on May 13, 2016, 05:44:14 PM
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A Christian from the bible stand point is someone who has taken part in the first resurrection
Revelation 20; 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
~TW~
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In practical terms how is this achieved?
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A Christian from the bible stand point is someone who has taken part in the first resurrection
Revelation 20; 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
~TW~
But the first resurrection, of ordinary people, won't happen till Christ returns.
1 Corinthians 15:23
But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
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But the first resurrection, of ordinary people, won't happen till Christ returns.
1 Corinthians 15:23
But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
The first resurrection has already and is now taking place. Read Johns Gospel.
~TW~
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The first resurrection has already and is now taking place. Read Johns Gospel.
~TW~
Which fits exactly with 1 Corinthians. Jesus first and then when he returns again the resurrection of the just will begin.
I assume with regards to John you are talking about.
John 14:1-3.
Well is this a spiritual or physical resurrection? If physical then clearly, according to you, only someone who has physically died can be a Christian. If spiritual how can you tell? How do you know that Christ has not returned to an individual to make them a Christian?
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In practical terms how is this achieved?
Two types of resurrection are spoken of in scripture the Spiritual and the Physical for example the first is the new birth the second is the parousia . Paul was able to say.
Eph 2;1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.---and also Eph 2;4-6 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[d] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
We add Johh 5:24-29 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
And we see regarding resurrection 1 one is present one is future 2 one is spiritual one is physical 3 one is restricted to believers the other includes everyone.
Which is in agreement with Revelation 20; 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
~TW~
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Two types of resurrection are spoken of in scripture the Spiritual and the Physical for example the first is the new birth the second is the parousia . Paul was able to say.
Eph 2;1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.---and also Eph 2;4-6 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[d] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
We add Johh 5:24-29 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
And we see regarding resurrection 1 one is present one is future 2 one is spiritual one is physical 3 one is restricted to believers the other includes everyone.
Which is in agreement with Revelation 20; 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
~TW~
So how do you tell who is a true Christian then?
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So, have all those who say they are Christians (you, Sass, Hope, Alan Burns etc) undergone this first resurrection as part of the definition of being a Christian?
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So how do you tell who is a true Christian then?
Revelation 20:6 Revelation 20; 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Those who have taken part in the first resurrection,now on another thread you stated you do not believe in the tri-omni God which means you are not a Christian and you experience the second death,also that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit as you are still in the flesh Paul says in Romans that this is foolishness for you a non-Spiritual person and difficult for you to understand.
~TW~
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So, have all those who say they are Christians (you, Sass, Hope, Alan Burns etc) undergone this first resurrection as part of the definition of being a Christian?
Only in their heads Gordon, only in their heads.
Curiously, it seems that it's not part of the club's rules not to behave like a total scumbag...
...ah, it's all making sense now ;)
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So, have all those who say they are Christians (you, Sass, Hope, Alan Burns etc) undergone this first resurrection as part of the definition of being a Christian?
John 3: Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]” Which is the first resurrection so the answer is yes.
There is only one way into the Kingdom.
~TW~
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So how do you tell who is a true Christian then?
TW,
Genuinely then how would you tell? If someone had received the first resurrection, could/would they still steal, lie, murder for example?
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What does 'taken part in the first resurrection' actually mean though: you say 'taken part' so is it some kind of event (like a baptism or communion etc)?
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TW,
Genuinely then how would you tell? If someone had received the first resurrection, could/would they still steal, lie, murder for example?
In my walk as a Christian I do not know any one who has murdered,the other questions are difficult to answer unless you are a mind reader.
But I believe once saved always saved.
~TW~
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What does 'taken part in the first resurrection' actually mean though: you say 'taken part' so is it some kind of event (like a baptism or communion etc)?
It means being born again.Being raised to spiritual life.
~TW~
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Also remember if you are not born again/first resurrection you have this great scripture which must be of great encouragement to you.Now you may not understand it but,it is in your favour.
READ IT 20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
~TW~ Must leave you now back later.
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It means being born again.Being raised to spiritual life.
~TW~
So is it more like a personal commitment: the likes of Hope and Sass would say/feel the same?
Luther Wesley Baxter, on the old BBC, used to talk about being born again 'from above' - is this the same thing as the spiritual resurrection you mentioned?
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In my walk as a Christian I do not know any one who has murdered,the other questions are difficult to answer unless you are a mind reader.
But I believe once saved always saved.
~TW~
Well, presumably you can read your own mind. So now you have been born again could/would/have you murdered, lied, stolen?
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Well, presumably you can read your own mind. So now you have been born again could/would/have you murdered, lied, stolen?
A good question I would answer it like this.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us
~TW~
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A good question I would answer it like this.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us
~TW~
So someone might be born again and still lie/steal but if they were truly born again they would confess? Seems to be what you are saying?
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So someone might be born again and still lie/steal but if they were truly born again they would confess? Seems to be what you are saying?
When you are born again each day you are being sanctified and becoming a new creation in Christ it is one day at a time forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,
Must go back later.
~TW~
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When you are born again each day you are being sanctified and becoming a new creation in Christ it is one day at a time forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,
Must go back later.
~TW~
So will you be confessing the lies you told on the other thread then? About nobody answering your question?
Either you are going to confess it or you are not born again, by your own definition.
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So will you be confessing the lies you told on the other thread then? About nobody answering your question?
Either you are going to confess it or you are not born again, by your own definition.
Well what ever I do one thing is for sure I am born again and I am miles ahead of you,so get some sleep and rest and try again. :)
~TW~
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TW, I get the impression you'd be gutted if any of us converted and you lost the satisfaction of contemplating our eternal torment.
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Stephen,
I just typed "for sure I am born again" into Google Translate for T(roll)W to English, and it said: "I haven't got a freaking clue about this nonsense, and nor therefore do I have one shred of an iota of an argument to support it. It keeps me warm at night though to believe it to be true, and it arms me with the back up I need to be a thoroughly nasty bit of work whenever anyone has the temerity to ask me why I actually believe this steaming heap of unicorn dung to be true."
Just thought you'd like to know ;)
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TW, I get the impression you'd be gutted if any of us converted and you lost the satisfaction of contemplating our eternal torment.
Well miracles do happen and if the Lord chooses you it will happen.At the moment you are dead but who knows he may have you in mind for the future.
~TW~
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At the moment you are dead
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried (and goodness only knows, you do try).
We are alive. One day we weren't, and on another day we won't be, but for now - we're alive.
Try it. It's a right head rush.
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At the moment you are dead but who knows he may have you in mind for the future.
Impossible to see how this equates to the 'Good News' that we're often told that Christianity is, TW.
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Impossible to see how this equates to the 'Good News' that we're often told that Christianity is, TW.
Well you do not welcome the good news in your state and condition{spiritually dead} you cannot even begin to see any thing.As one preacher once said what can a dead man do.
~TW~
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Well you do not welcome the good news in your state and condition{spiritually dead} you cannot even begin to see any thing.As one preacher once said what can a dead man do.
~TW~
Presumably this is the 'Miserable News' approach: I can't see it catching on!
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Presumably this is the 'Miserable News' approach: I can't see it catching on!
Go back to post 1 of this thread check the scriptures.With your Earth 20 billion years old and not a scrap of proof.How many visitors have found this place in 20 billion years. And what have your Gods found the ones you worship people like you nothing.And we have save this ,save that no sign of any new life evolving even after 20 billion years.You need to reassess your act Gordon.
~TW~
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Go back to post 1 of this thread check the scriptures.With your Earth 20 billion years old
4.5 billion years, actually.
and not a scrap of proof.
Tons of it. Shall we go through radiometric dating step by step, from the basics up, for absolute beginners?
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4.5 billion years, actually.Tons of it. Shall we go through radiometric dating step by step, from the basics up, for absolute beginners?
No we would need to look at the rotation speed of the earth,its position in relation to the moon on your wonky figures and quite a few other bits.Just take on board the figures dont add up.
~TW~
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The figures are fine - only you are wonky.
Excuse the spelling.
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The figures are fine - only you are wonky.
Excuse the spelling.
Well start a new thread and produce your evidence.
~TW~
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I don't think he needs to bother.
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I don't think he needs to bother.
Very true he would hit the fan very quickly. good night.
~TW~
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Impossible to see how this equates to the 'Good News' that we're often told that Christianity is, TW.
Yes, but what is the worse news Gordon? ........that Jesus is knocking on your door............or that by rights your response should be to open the door to him?
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A Christian from the bible stand point is someone who has taken part in the first resurrection
Revelation 20; 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
~TW~
Very meaningful, NOT!
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Moderator:
I've again moved posts (two, one from ippy and the other from TW) that involve comments about others being mentally ill - no more please!
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Moderator:
I've again moved posts (two, one from ippy and the other from TW) that involve comments about others being mentally ill - no more please!
thank you Gordon My faith in you is restored,also is it possible you could try and keep the threads on course please.For example Stephen Taylor ask a lot of not very clever questions which had nothing to do with the thread,I know he still hurts when he failed to answer a question,and had no interest in the thread but was just trying to catch me out, some of your posters can be very irritating for example floo's last post,nothing whatsoever to do with the thread.And also if people are to give it out they should be happy to receive it back.My back is broad.
~TW~
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This thread is called who/what is a Christian you will find my first 6 post provide in general very sound scriptures as to who/what is a Christian.The reason for the thread was some people were asking.
So you now have the answer.should you have any questions relating to the scriptures please ask.
~TW~
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For example Stephen Taylor ask a lot of not very clever questions which had nothing to do with the thread,
Well since this is thread is entitled "What/Who is a Christian", then I fail to see why my questions relating to how do we know if someone is a Christian or not are off topic.
I know he still hurts when he failed to answer a question,
Looks like you will need to seek forgiveness again, or is it that you are not really born again?
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A Christian from the bible stand point is someone who has taken part in the first resurrection
Revelation 20; 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
~TW~
Sorry, I've been away doing the usual unbeliever things.
You know the sort of thing....planning to petrol bomb the local Christian Sunday school outing and other acts of evil.
Anyway, clearly you are a true Christian and all those thousands of other denominations, sects and cults are just deluded.
I have proof of this from the attached diagram which depicts where your particular "truth" is.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/53/12/f7/5312f725c07bd5e3330b2d7345af9f34.jpg
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Which fits exactly with 1 Corinthians. Jesus first and then when he returns again the resurrection of the just will begin.
Jesus wasn't the first person to be resurrected according to the Bible.
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This'll be lost on T(roll)W, but it never tires:
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
Emo Phillips
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Well miracles do happen and if the Lord chooses you it will happen.At the moment you are dead but who knows he may have you in mind for the future.
~TW~
Let's get this straight.
You're saying that a person is not a Christian until your invisible sky pixie actually chooses someone.
That means everyone is heading for Hell until your god makes his selections.
So all that stuff you were saying earlier about people sending themselves to Hell is BS given that we have no control over who your god chooses to become Christians.
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Many a true word spoken in jest, bluey.
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Jesus wasn't the first person to be resurrected according to the Bible.
It's great being able to search your past posts...
Yet back in the day, resurrections were no big deal in the ancient Middle East.
The Bible itself tells us how the following individuals all came back to life after they'd died:
1. Widow of Zarephath's son
2. Shunamite's son
3. Man tossed into Elisha's tomb
4. Widow of Nain's son
5. Jairus' daughter
6. Lazarus
7. Tabitha
8. Eutychus
Not forgetting the hundreds (maybe thousands) who zombie-walked their way into Jerusalem.
Of course it wasn't just the Middle East where people came back from the dead but all over the ancient world. Some of these include:
Quetzalcoatl
Ishtar
Osiris
Adonis
Dionysus
Persephone
Tammuz
Baal
Attis
Lemminkainen
Odin
Ganesha
Krishna
So there you have it, returning from the grave used to be much more commonplace than people think.
Strange how all these resurrections, occurred in a time when humans were deeply superstitious and since the advent of science we haven't reliably recorded any instances of people being resurrected after death. This is so much the case that it's only the deeply superstitious who still cling to the ancient myths.
http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=11609.msg592275#msg592275
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Nothing to do with this thread or me.Have you posted the question yet on the Isaiah thread.
~TW~
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Nothing to do with this thread or me.Have you posted the question yet on the Isaiah thread.
~TW~
Any chance of a reply to #42? Or have you gone away to seek forgiveness.
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Any chance of a reply to #42? Or have you gone away to seek forgiveness.
You think his god, Satan, is a bit cross with TW? LOL!
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so no questions on the scriptures ----Good :D
~TW~
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You think his god, Satan, is a bit cross with TW? LOL!
I think that is a bit strong floo.
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I think that is a bit strong floo.
Brownie some folks have suggested you are a Christian,so can you direct me to a post in the last fortnight on here where you have followed the great commission to inform some one of their needs of salvation. Thanks.
~TW~
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I have no gift for evangelism TW but I have given testimony before now and shared my conversion experience. Not in the last fortnight though. I've also spoken and prayed privately with one or two people. I can't help feeling you've got it in for me, there are other Christians on this forum apart from you, me and Sassy so focus on someone else for a change please. No doubt you think I'm not a proper Christian which is fine by me, you can ignore me and I may learn to ignore you.
At times like this an 'ignore' button would be useful. I remember years ago I posted on a forum that had an 'ignore' facility; I was banned more than once but on one occasion it was because I had the mods on 'ignore'. I spoilt it for others because the 'ignore' button was removed. That is all apropos of nothing, just thought I'd share.
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so no questions on the scriptures ----Good :D
~TW~
Evasion noted.
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Brownie,
I think that is a bit strong floo.
Why? As I understand it, christians think "God" to have the characteristics generally thought to be good, while "Satan" gets the bad ones. Now consider T(roll)W's eructations here: abusive, judgmental, dishonest, threatening, indifferent to even the simplest reasoning, arrogant, you name it. If it's a binary choice, floo seems to me to have picked the right one.
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I speak as I find, that was my opinion bluehillside.
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Brownie,
Why? As I understand it, christians think "God" to have the characteristics generally thought to be good, while "Satan" gets the bad ones. Now consider T(roll)W's eructations here: abusive, judgmental, dishonest, threatening, indifferent to even the simplest reasoning, arrogant, you name it. If it's a binary choice, floo seems to me to have picked the right one.
Yes but brownie disagrees with you.So a matter of opinion dear boy.
~TW~
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Brownie,
I speak as I find, that was my opinion bluehillside.
Which is your perfect right of course, but aren't you interested in having it examined - either to reinforce sticking with it, or to persuade you to change your mind? T(roll)W's tool kit consists entirely of behaviours that are closer to those we're told fit "Satan" better than they fit "God" - at least in Christian iconography.
Assuming a binary choice (which I'll grant you is not a given), why then was floo wrong?
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I didn't say she was 'wrong' in the sense of 'morally wrong', just that I felt it was a tad harsh. Floo knows me of old and won't take offence, nor even any notice probably.
By all means examine away but TW is being sarky above and I am trying to ignore him so may we examine it in private? Or just leave it.
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I think that is a bit strong floo.
Considering his posts directed at me I thought it was a fairly mild comment, LOL!
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I think TW, likes to go beyond the teachings of Christ at times. Making himself judge and juror.
We see Christ tell us that he is the way, the truth and the life.
In Acts 10:35-45 we see Peter preach the good news about Jesus Christ and those who believe receive the Holy Spirit.
The resurrection spoken about by TW applies to those who confess Christ and die rather than worship the Beast.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
When Peter spoke of Christ being the truth and the life, he never mentioned any resurrection but that of Christ.
He like the Disciples knew that Christ sent the Holy Spirit to teach us and lead us into all truth. Even tell us of the things to come.
John 4:22-24 tells us true worshippers are born of the Spirit and Truth.
Believing the truth about Jesus Christ causes believers to be baptised in the Holy Spirit.
God putting his truth within mankind in his last covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34.
A believer cannot tell another if they are saved or not. The wheat and tares grow together till Christ comes.
We believe Jesus is the Son of God and we are saved through what he did. No man has the right to pronounce Judgment over his fellow man. Because anyone who confesses Christ is Lord is cannot say this unless by the power of the Holy Ghost.
King James Bible
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
I believe sometimes people get ahead of themselves and use methods and beliefs not preached to judge others.
King James Bible
Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
How can Christ not confess anyone whom confesses him to be the Son of God?
Truth is God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have eternal life.
It is sad that people chop and change to make what they want to believe fit in without proper reverance for the words spoken by Gods Son, which incidentally came from God.
God is love he is a God of truth.
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Thanks Sassy, I found that helpful.
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I think TW, likes to go beyond the teachings of Christ at times. Making himself judge and juror.
We see Christ tell us that he is the way, the truth and the life.
In Acts 10:35-45 we see Peter preach the good news about Jesus Christ and those who believe receive the Holy Spirit.
The resurrection spoken about by TW applies to those who confess Christ and die rather than worship the Beast.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
When Peter spoke of Christ being the truth and the life, he never mentioned any resurrection but that of Christ.
He like the Disciples knew that Christ sent the Holy Spirit to teach us and lead us into all truth. Even tell us of the things to come.
John 4:22-24 tells us true worshippers are born of the Spirit and Truth.
Believing the truth about Jesus Christ causes believers to be baptised in the Holy Spirit.
God putting his truth within mankind in his last covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34.
A believer cannot tell another if they are saved or not. The wheat and tares grow together till Christ comes.
We believe Jesus is the Son of God and we are saved through what he did. No man has the right to pronounce Judgment over his fellow man. Because anyone who confesses Christ is Lord is cannot say this unless by the power of the Holy Ghost.
King James Bible
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
I believe sometimes people get ahead of themselves and use methods and beliefs not preached to judge others.
King James Bible
Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
How can Christ not confess anyone whom confesses him to be the Son of God?
Truth is God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have eternal life.
It is sad that people chop and change to make what they want to believe fit in without proper reverance for the words spoken by Gods Son, which incidentally came from God.
God is love he is a God of truth.
Yeh right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I've always thought of religion as something taken up by a bunch of witless nuts, not all, but the really nutty regions of faith are very well represented here on this thread, what a load of drivel.
Well I'm off now I'm meeting up with Elvis a bit later.
ippy.
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A-huh-huh. ;)
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One thing for which I am extremely grateful is that whilst we might go at it hammer and tongs on a forum such as this, in everyday life religion isn't in your face here in the UK, as would appear to be the case in the US. Religion hasn't done that country any favours at all over the years.
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You are right there, though I think there pockets of it. There are plenty of places where the attitude is much the same as here. The USA is so vast, there are bound to be communities unlike here.
My son goes all over the States for work and has very strong opinions about it all but one thing that did surprise me is that there are Catholic communities that are quite evangelical like in the Bible-belts. Certainly nothing like over here. We also don't care or don't want to know about religious beliefs of our politicians but it is all very important in America. Poor Obama even had to justify himself before he was elected, I remember he fell out with the minister at the church he had been a member of but went to another one. He wrote about his beliefs (liberal of course), in 'The Audacity of Hope'. Some of the Bible belters were calling him a Muslim, how stupid. Trump even said he wasn't an American!
Apparently there is a big Bible belt in Australia too.
We are relatively indifferent here, as long as no-one is extreme they're Ok.
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The Australian Anglicans have been very instrumental in the anti-gay movement within the Communion.
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I heard something about that Rhiannon, quite a while ago. How backward can you get. Mind you, many of the African Anglican Churches are even worse (not South Africa I understand).
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When I was active in Anglicanism Peter Jensen was Bishop of Sydney. What a charmer.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Jensen_(bishop)
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I'd never heard of him before. He certainly is very conservative in his views but he's retired now and quite elderly. I'm more concerned about younger ministers who take such a hard line.
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They learned at his knee, Brownie.
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They could change their minds though, Rhiannon, or at least soften their views. It happens.
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You are right there, though I think there pockets of it. There are plenty of places where the attitude is much the same as here. The USA is so vast, there are bound to be communities unlike here.
My son goes all over the States for work and has very strong opinions about it all but one thing that did surprise me is that there are Catholic communities that are quite evangelical like in the Bible-belts. Certainly nothing like over here. We also don't care or don't want to know about religious beliefs of our politicians but it is all very important in America. Poor Obama even had to justify himself before he was elected, I remember he fell out with the minister at the church he had been a member of but went to another one. He wrote about his beliefs (liberal of course), in 'The Audacity of Hope'. Some of the Bible belters were calling him a Muslim, how stupid. Trump even said he wasn't an American!
Apparently there is a big Bible belt in Australia too.
We are relatively indifferent here, as long as no-one is extreme they're Ok.
As long as people practise their faith in a moderate way, and don't try to convert others with threats, I have absolutely no problem with it.
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:) Brownie you write ---We are relatively indifferent here, as long as no-one is extreme they're Ok.
------------------------------
In your own words what does extreme mean.Please give examples.
~TW~
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You are very unpleasantly extreme, TW!
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So brownie does a vanishing act and leaves the puppet to answer.Case closed.
~TW~
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So brownie does a vanishing act and leaves the puppet to answer.Case closed.
~TW~
You make my case so well. Your brand of faith is extremely off putting to say the least.
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You make my case so well. Your brand of faith is extremely off putting to say the least.
Maybe but I don't tell lies like the invisible Brownie who makes a statement and hides very Christian.
~TW~
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Maybe but I don't tell lies like the invisible Brownie who makes a statement and hides very Christian.
~TW~
What lies?
You lie because you state as fact what can only be an assertion!
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What lies?
You lie because you state as fact what can only be an assertion!
I can on here and ask Brownie for an example of her statement and she has fled she claims to be a Christian she says we have extreme christians explain she has fled and YOU back her YOU support her mis-information.
~TW~
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I can on here and ask Brownie for an example of her statement and she has fled she claims to be a Christian she says we have extreme christians explain she has fled and YOU back her YOU support her mis-information.
~TW~
Your faith position is VERY EXTREME, you threatening non believers like myself, with the mythical tortures of hell, which you can't substantiate with any verifiable evidence. What is the aim of your presence on this forum, being a very silly WUM, or trying to bludgeon people into accepting your very sick version of religion?
Brownie is a decent moderate Christian, so are a number of others on this forum, you certainly don't come into that category.
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Your faith position is VERY EXTREME, you threatening non believers like myself, with the mythical tortures of hell, which you can't substantiate with any verifiable evidence. What is the aim of your presence on this forum, be a very silly WUM, or try to bludgeon people into accepting your very sick version of religion?
Brownie is a decent moderate Christian, so are a number of others on this forum, you certainly don't come into that category.
You make things up as you so along .Your view is {with no evidence to support} that Jesus never spoke of hell your words he is an ok guy,but when someone comes along {like me} and says Jesus is Lord and spoke more about hell then anyone else.
You stick both fingers in your ears and shout fundie and stamp your feet. A clear case of self deception. Moderator: content removed.
~TW~
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You make things up as you so along .Your view is {with no evidence to support} that Jesus never spoke of hell your words he is an ok guy,but when someone comes along {like me} and says Jesus is Lord and spoke more about hell then anyone else.
You stick both fingers in your ears and shout fundie and stamp your feet. A clear case of self deception. Moderator: quoted content removed.
~TW~
You don't know what Jesus ever said or did. You rely on other people to have written down accurately these things.
How can you be sure they did not lie, embelish, or make honest mistakes?
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You don't know what Jesus ever said or did. You rely on other people to have written down accurately these things.
How can you be sure they did not lie, embelish, or make honest mistakes?
Same old argument BR you prove he did not say it.Case closed.
~TW~
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Same old argument BR you prove he did not say it.Case closed.
~TW~
Why is it that when Hope isn't around there's always somebody else to take up his favourite fallacy?
Do you accept literally everything as true until and unless there's explicit proof against, ~TW~? Because that's the logical outcome of your illogical stance.
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Why is it that when Hope isn't around there's always somebody else to take up his favourite fallacy?
Do you accept literally everything as true until and unless there's explicit proof against, ~TW~? Because that's the logical outcome of your illogical stance.
At least ~TW~'s got an excuse Shakes, Hope hasn't.
ippy
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You make things up as you so along .Your view is {with no evidence to support} that Jesus never spoke of hell your words he is an ok guy,but when someone comes along {like me} and says Jesus is Lord and spoke more about hell then anyone else.
You stick both fingers in your ears and shout fundie and stamp your feet. A clear case of self deception. Moderator: quoted content removed.
~TW~
Where did I say Jesus never spoke of hell? You have just made that one up! Jesus could have spoken about it all he liked, it still doesn't make it a reality! Moderator: content removed.
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Moderator:
Could we please stop referring to other members in terms that imply mental illness - I'm going to mod a couple of recent posts on this basis.
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ipster,
At least ~TW~'s got an excuse Shakes, Hope hasn't.
Ignorance is no excuse. The point though about T(roll)W, Hope et al is that, however bad their arguments, they just don't care. See, they know - they really, really know at least in their heads, and the fact that any attempt to demonstrate their confidence in that knowledge collapses immediately into logical fallacies matters to them not a jot. They just ignore the problem, divert the conversation away from it and hope no-one notices. Then, when it's all gone quiet for a bit, they sneak back and attempt the same bad thinking that undermined them the last time.
And that's the mistake of the more rational here I think. We assume that, if you explain why 2+2=4 and not 5 using argument, evidence, reason etc then the 2+2=5 claimant will just change his mind. When it comes to religious belief though, he won't. Never ever ever. No matter how bad the arguments for it, it's hard wired and that's all there is to it.
Depressing innit?
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:) Brownie you write ---We are relatively indifferent here, as long as no-one is extreme they're Ok.
------------------------------
In your own words what does extreme mean.Please give examples.
~TW~
You.
ippy
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ipster,
Ignorance is no excuse. The point though about T(roll)W, Hope et al is that, however bad their arguments, they just don't care. See, they know - they really, really know at least in their heads, and the fact that any attempt to demonstrate their confidence in that knowledge collapses immediately into logical fallacies matters to them not a jot. They just ignore the problem, divert the conversation away from it and hope no-one notices. Then, when it's all gone quiet for a bit, they sneak back and attempt the same bad thinking that undermined them the last time.
And that's the mistake of the more rational here I think. We assume that, if you explain why 2+2=4 and not 5 using argument, evidence, reason etc then the 2+2=5 claimant will just change his mind. When it comes to religious belief though, he won't. Never ever ever. No matter how bad the arguments for it, it's hard wired and that's all there is to it.
Depressing innit?
I think it has to be realised that all religions build a wall around their followers Satan has this job to try to undermine the Faith and so all arguments are obviously old Nick doing his dirty work.
This is why it's all water off a duck's back to TW, Hope, Alien et al.
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I think it has to be realised that all religions build a wall around their followers Satan has this job to try to undermine the Faith and so all arguments are obviously old Nick doing his dirty work.
This is why it's all water off a duck's back to TW, Hope, Alien et al.
Yes the way I see it in a few years time this country will have an all Muslim Government so all under Sharia law you atheist will suffer badly hands chopped off and so on probably murdered and then hell the Christian Gods hell so give it time remember you were warned.
~TW~
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jj,
I think it has to be realised that all religions build a wall around their followers Satan has this job to try to undermine the Faith and so all arguments are obviously old Nick doing his dirty work.
This is why it's all water off a duck's back to TW, Hope, Alien et al.
Well, maybe Satan is keen for people not to believe in God so he sends these people as his little helpers to make such unwittingly bad arguments that many who would convert are so alienated by them they they won't. Why though wouldn't this God just send a few posters this way who can make logically coherent arguments to redress the balance? Too busy giving brain cancer to babies and wiping out villages with tsunamis I guess.
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jj,
Well, maybe Satan is keen for people not to believe in God so he sends these people as his little helpers to make such unwittingly bad arguments that many who would convert are so alienated by them they they won't. Why though wouldn't this God just send a few posters this way who can make logically coherent arguments to redress the balance? Too busy giving brain cancer to babies or wiping out villages with tsunamis I guess.
Yes the way I see it in a few years time this country will have an all Muslim Government so all under Sharia law you atheist will suffer badly hands chopped off and so on probably murdered and then hell the Christian Gods hell so give it time remember you were warned.
~TW~
Modify message
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Yes the way I see it in a few years time this country will have an all Muslim Government so all under Sharia law you atheist will suffer badly hands chopped off and so on probably murdered and then hell the Christian Gods hell so give it time remember you were warned.
QED
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Same old argument BR you prove he did not say it.Case closed.
~TW~
I don't need to that's just the way it is with logic.
Jesus did and said NOTHING until you provide the evidence that he did.
If you cannot do that, then the default positions stands.
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Yes the way I see it in a few years time this country will have an all Muslim Government so all under Sharia law you atheist will suffer badly hands chopped off and so on probably murdered and then hell the Christian Gods hell so give it time remember you were warned.
~TW~
Thanks, ThreatsrWus
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I don't need to that's just the way it is with logic.
Jesus did and said NOTHING until you provide the evidence that he did.
If you cannot do that, then the default positions stands.
You wish FDS
~TW~
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jj,
Thanks, ThreatsrWus
The irony of T(roll)W's green-inked rantings about muslims is that he's more likely to be an agent of his dystopian vision than rationalists are. By advocating faith as a reliable means of knowing something, he unwittingly validates others who would say the same about their faiths. The point about secularism in particular is that it provides a safe space for faiths of all sorts to operate as private members clubs but it also functions as a bulwark agains any that would overreach into arrogating to themselves rights and privileges beyond that.
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You wish FDS
~TW~
BR is right. That's how logic works. You're committing what's known as the negative proof fallacy, also known as the appeal to ignorance. Hope is usually the great one for this; in his absence evidently you've taken it over.
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You wish FDS
As I said just now, you can point to the fallacious thinking of the T(roll)W's of this world as much as you like (in this case the negative proof fallacy) but they just don't care. Really, they don't - however desperately wrong their attempts at coherent argument, they don't care.
It's weird watching one of Satan's little helpers at work like this, but there it is nonetheless.
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As I said just now, you can point to the fallacious thinking of the T(roll)W's of this world as much as you like (in this case the negative proof fallacy) but they just don't care. Really, they don't - however desperately wrong their attempts at coherent argument, they don't care.
It's weird watching one of Satan's little helpers at work like this, but there it is nonetheless.
Please do the same as toe find something that made itself.
~TW~
ps back later.
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Please do the same as toe find something that made itself.
~TW~
ps back later.
Bawbag. ;D
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You wish FDS
~TW~
Not really, that's just the way it is.
I did not make the rules, that's just the way they are.
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Please do the same as toe find something that made itself.
~TW~
ps back later.
What makes you think something made itself?
Did your god makes itself, or do you not worry about that detail?
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What makes you think something made itself?
Did your god makes itself, or do you not worry about that detail?
I have asked many times who made god, if I get an answer at all, it is that it was always there, which is no answer at all.
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I have asked many times who made god, if I get an answer at all, it is that it was always there, which is no answer at all.
Quite. If god can always have been there, so can a multiverse.
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Well what ever I do one thing is for sure I am born again and I am miles ahead of you,so get some sleep and rest and try again. :)
~TW~
I hope you've seriously considered Matthew 7, 15-23. There is a line towards the end of Bunyan's PP which is worth considering, for those who are so sure....
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Yes the way I see it in a few years time this country will have an all Muslim Government so all under Sharia law you atheist will suffer badly hands chopped off and so on probably murdered and then hell the Christian Gods hell so give it time remember you were warned.
~TW~
Given the rapid and imminent extinction of Christianity in the UK, I can see why you say that.
However, we are a secular nation and having kicked one load of superstitious mumbo jumbo into touch, we're hardly likely to embrace another one.
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Yes the way I see it in a few years time this country will have an all Muslim Government
~TW~
Could you please be more specific regarding 'in a few years time'?
You wouldn't want people thinking that you are just talking from your bahookie now would you? :o
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Could you please be more specific regarding 'in a few years time'?
You wouldn't want people thinking that you are just talking from your bahookie now would you? :o
Bahookie - great word!
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You wouldn't want people thinking that you are just talking from your bahookie now would you? :o
It's never bothered him before...
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ipster,
Ignorance is no excuse. The point though about T(roll)W, Hope et al is that, however bad their arguments, they just don't care. See, they know - they really, really know at least in their heads, and the fact that any attempt to demonstrate their confidence in that knowledge collapses immediately into logical fallacies matters to them not a jot. They just ignore the problem, divert the conversation away from it and hope no-one notices. Then, when it's all gone quiet for a bit, they sneak back and attempt the same bad thinking that undermined them the last time.
Interestingly, bh, I made exactly the same point about some of your fellow-travellers' argumentation skills a couple of weeks back.
And that's the mistake of the more rational here I think. We assume that, if you explain why 2+2=4 and not 5 using argument, evidence, reason etc then the 2+2=5 claimant will just change his mind. When it comes to religious belief though, he won't. Never ever ever. No matter how bad the arguments for it, it's hard wired and that's all there is to it.
I think a better analogy is when those on this side of the debate suggest that 2+2=10 - an analogy I have used before, but can't remember whether it was on this site or another one.
Depressing innit?
Couldn't agree more, blue. It depends on whether one is tuned into a single way of looking at reality, or whether (as with the 2+2=10 concept) one is willing to look at other ways as well.
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Interestingly, bh, I made exactly the same point about some of your fellow-travellers' argumentation skills a couple of weeks back.
Such as? Take a few prime examples from yourself:
You: Actually a naturalistic outcome can be ruled out (or words to that effect).
Me et al. : How can you know that?
You: silence:
+++++++++++++++++=
You: Unless you are suggesting that God can sin:
Me: How have you exclude the possibility that God can commit/order genocide. Couldn't these other possibilities have cured the issue.
You: You want God to make robots! (something irrelevant anyway).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
Me, et al. Where is the evidence for non naturalistic evidence and how do you know they are non naturalists
you: Claims about a resurrection with no means of showing how they demonstrate an actual resurrection.
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Interestingly, bh, I made exactly the same point about some of your fellow-travellers' argumentation skills a couple of weeks back.
So you put the negative proof fallacy on hold in order to indulge in a spot of tu quoque.
I think a better analogy is when those on this side of the debate suggest that 2+2=10 - an analogy I have used before, but can't remember whether it was on this site or another one.
A score says it was somewhere else.
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As long as people practise their faith in a moderate way, and don't try to convert others with threats, I have absolutely no problem with it.
I'm still waiting to meet a Christian who does this, Floo.
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So you put the negative proof fallacy on hold in order to indulge in a spot of tu quoque.
No, just pointing out that, perhaps unintentionally (?) you have indulged in the latter.
A score says it was somewhere else.
Think I've used the concept before here, but not that particular one.
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Such as? Take a few prime examples from yourself:
You: Actually a naturalistic outcome can be ruled out (or words to that effect).
Me et al. : How can you know that?
You: silence:
I did respond to that, Stephen, but some days later, as work had made my use of the forum pretty limited - and still does.
You: Unless you are suggesting that God can sin:
Me: How have you exclude the possibility that God can commit/order genocide. Couldn't these other possibilities have cured the issue.
You: You want God to make robots! (something irrelevant anyway).
Have a vague memory of this exchange, but seem to remember that that second comment of mine came several exchanges later - not immediately, as you imply here.
Me, et al. Where is the evidence for non naturalistic evidence and how do you know they are non naturalists
you: Claims about a resurrection with no means of showing how they demonstrate an actual resurrection.
Don't recall that first statement of 'yours et al'.
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Given the rapid and imminent extinction of Christianity in the UK, I can see why you say that.
Whilst it may be losing numbers, do you have any evidence that it's extinction is either rapid, imminent or even likely? For instance, I know of several churches that are currently growing as people who have never had a faith are beginning to find one.
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Quote from: ~TW~ on May 16, 2016, 11:15:52 AM
Yes the way I see it in a few years time this country will have an all Muslim Government so all under Sharia law you atheist will suffer badly hands chopped off and so on probably murdered and then hell the Christian Gods hell so give it time remember you were warned.
~TW~
Given the rapid and imminent extinction of Christianity in the UK, I can see why you say that.
However, we are a secular nation and having kicked one load of superstitious mumbo jumbo into touch, we're hardly likely to embrace another one.
Despite the media coverage which gives the impression practically every other person is a Muslim, the percentage of Muslims in this country is very small indeed. Growing for sure, atm, but not at such a rate that we will end up having an all-Muslim government. No-one would want that so we won't have it, it wouldn't be representative of this country.
We do now have a Muslim mayor though - whoo hoo! A true Londoner too.
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Whilst it may be losing numbers, do you have any evidence that it's extinction is either rapid, imminent or even likely?
I originally posted this link in the 'downward trend continues thread' but it applies here: in this neck of the woods your religion is on the decline, Hope, whether you like it or not.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35953639
For instance, I know of several churches that are currently growing as people who have never had a faith are beginning to find one.
Anecdotal, and even if there are such instances the wider picture (as noted in the link above) tells a different story.
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No, just pointing out that, perhaps unintentionally (?) you have indulged in the latter.
Feel free to point out where, won't you.
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I'm still waiting to meet a Christian who does this, Floo.
So because you haven't met one, then they don't exist?
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/car.muslims.forced.to.convert.to.christianity/60693.htm
...is this where you play the, they are not Christians card? ::)
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So because you haven't met one, then they don't exist?
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/car.muslims.forced.to.convert.to.christianity/60693.htm
...is this where you play the, they are not Christians card? ::)
If they misunderstand the nature of Christian conversion then can they be sure that their own conversions are genuine?
Are they forcing people to have a loving relationship with God (can it be love if it is forced) or are they forcing people into a mere verbal formula?
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If they misunderstand the nature of Christian conversion then can they be sure that their own conversions are genuine?
Are they forcing people to have a loving relationship with God (can it be love if it is forced) or are they forcing people into a mere verbal formula?
Are they forcing people to do something that they don't want to do?
Are you the arbiter of who is a Christian or not?
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Are they forcing people to do something that they don't want to do?
Are you the arbiter of who is a Christian or not?
But you can stretch definitions so far that the definition of Christian would cover even hard arsed atheists.
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But you can stretch definitions so far that the definition of Christian would cover even hard arsed atheists.
Are you saying that those mentioned in the article are not Christians?
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Are you saying that those mentioned in the article are not Christians?
They may be as Christian as you.
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They may be as Christian as you.
Are you saying that those mentioned in the article are not Christians?
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So because you haven't met one, then they don't exist?
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/car.muslims.forced.to.convert.to.christianity/60693.htm
...is this where you play the, they are not Christians card? ::)
I read the article Seb and found it quite shocking; churches in Africa are so very different to those in the 'Western' world. When you think of how the Anglican Church behaves in regard to homosexuals in some African countries, it is hardly surprising but I still found it shocking.
What I, and Hope, meant is that we - and floo - are hardly likely to come across anyone forcing Christianity onto us. The majority of Christians here are liberal minded and we have a culture that discourages aggressive evangelism. We really have to seek it out to experience it. The law prohibits it, eg at work. Quite right too, I witnessed something like that at work once and it was unpleasant to say the least (a Christian woman telling it to an Israeli).
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I don't agree that the majority of Christians here are liberal. A lot are, but Evangelicalism is on the rise and liberalism waning. The last I knew a third of Anglican clergy were Evangelical. Catholicism is rising too due to the influx of Catholics from Eastern Europe.
And it isn't true that you need to seek it out either. Not if you are a school pupil at any rate.
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A Christian from the bible stand point is someone who has taken part in the first resurrection
Revelation 20; 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
~TW~
A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus.
Jesus never said anyone had to follow any of the existing sects or denominations existing today.
The bible, if it hints at anything, seems to make the point that ultimately it would be Jesus who decides who has been a "true" Christian or not, not a bunch of judgmental people.
Therefore who is a Christian isn't who other people says it is, but who Jesus says it is.
Problem sorted.
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A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus.
Jesus never said anyone had to follow any of the existing sects or denominations existing today.
The bible, if it hints at anything, seems to make the point that ultimately it would be Jesus who decides who has been a "true" Christian or not, not a bunch of judgmental people.
Therefore who is a Christian isn't who other people says it is, but who Jesus says it is.
Problem sorted.
What Jesus actually said, and what he is quoted as saying, might not be one and the same thing.
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Therefore who is a Christian isn't who other people says it is, but who Jesus says it is.
Problem sorted.
Err... he's not been very talkative, these last 2000 years or so, being a bit dead an' all...
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What Jesus actually said, and what he is quoted as saying, might not be one and the same thing.
True.
But even going on what he reportedly said and the sort of people he spoke to.
He never insisted any Roman soldier, convict (of dubious religion) or Samaritan become something else.
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Err... he's not been very talkative, these last 2000 years or so, being a bit dead an' all...
You have to use your imagination ;)
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I originally posted this link in the 'downward trend continues thread' but it applies here: in this neck of the woods your religion is on the decline, Hope, whether you like it or not.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35953639
Anecdotal, and even if there are such instances the wider picture (as noted in the link above) tells a different story.
We know that research covers a small proportion/number of people who are asked. Take a 100 people and ask them if they are religious, then take another 100 different people and ask them the same question.
One will be higher or lower than the other but none will represent the true number who are religious.
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You have to use your imagination ;)
Which bring us right back to people's opinions...
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Which bring us right back to people's opinions...
Can you not read the bible and create a counter argument, about what something could mean?
Without judging.
I can do the same with the Quran, if I was talking to a Muslim.
I would use it (Bible/Quran) to support a kinder version of Christianity or Islam.
People can share values even if they have different religions.
Or different sects of religion.
I just don't get hung up on twiddly bits ;D
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We know that research covers a small proportion/number of people who are asked. Take a 100 people and ask them if they are religious, then take another 100 different people and ask them the same question.
One will be higher or lower than the other but none will represent the true number who are religious.
Which is why there are various sampling methods available to bona-fide researchers, so that their results can be used to generalise with some confidence. The results of this study show that more than half of people in Scotland (52%) now say they have no religion compared with 40% in 1999, which is evidence of a decline.
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It's interesting what Rhiannon said about not having to seek it out, ie evangelism from Christians, especially in school. I understood that there was no proselytising in schools now, only the teaching of religion and ethics. Some private schools may still do it but not state. I'm not sure how state faith schools manage - actually I will ask someone I shall see on Monday who has two children in a Catholic state comprehensive.