Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Theism and Atheism => Topic started by: floo on May 14, 2016, 01:26:52 PM
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http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/mentally-ill-man-attempts-suicide-after-clinic-replaces-his-meds-with-bible-study/
I came across this disgusting story on another forum. The 'Christians' perpetrating this infamy should be hanging their nasty heads in shame.
Sadly this story is not unique. A few years ago a cousin of mine had a visit from a fundie Christian, who suggested his mental illness was caused by a demon, and if he asked god's forgiveness he would be cured. A couple of days later he attempted suicide! He now hides himself away in a room the size of a cupboard!
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It certainly is disturbing floo. I've heard people say that you ''shouldn't'' have a mental illness if you are a Christian. You have to claim healing. Actually that also applies to physical ailments, I can remember my poor mother-in-law (who had Parkinson's, cancer, diabetes, heart failure), being treated to that by a lady from her church. She was really upset after the lady left the house. I told the curate who was a regular visitor and she was going to have a word. It was so wrong, my m-i-l was in her eighties and dying.
Of course I believe in prayer and healing but we all need medical treatment sometimes - and we're all gonna die one day.
You frequent some funny forums floo :-). I didn't think places like that were still in existence.
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It certainly is disturbing floo. I've heard people say that you ''shouldn't'' have a mental illness if you are a Christian. You have to claim healing. Actually that also applies to physical ailments, I can remember my poor mother-in-law (who had Parkinson's, cancer, diabetes, heart failure), being treated to that by a lady from her church. She was really upset after the lady left the house. I told the curate who was a regular visitor and she was going to have a word. It was so wrong, my m-i-l was in her eighties and dying.
Of course I believe in prayer and healing but we all need medical treatment sometimes - and we're all gonna die one day.
You frequent some funny forums floo :-). I didn't think places like that were still in existence.
I got that one on a mainstream debate forum.
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Blimey.
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The worst story I heard was of a woman who had MS. She was prayed for and promised a cure; when it didn't happen she was told it was because she had 'unrepented sin' and she was told to leave the church that she belonged to.
I have Christian friends with severe depression; one self harms. And the vast majority of church leaders are woefully under-equipped to know how to deal with it.
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http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/mentally-ill-man-attempts-suicide-after-clinic-replaces-his-meds-with-bible-study/
I came across this disgusting story on another forum. The 'Christians' perpetrating this infamy should be hanging their nasty heads in shame.
Couldn't agree more, Floo. The same can be said of a variety of sects and cults associated with a variety of philosophies who teach similar things.
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Couldn't agree more, Floo. The same can be said of a variety of sects and cults associated with a variety of philosophies who teach similar things.
Indeed.
This one's about Christians though.
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Thank you for keeping at least some of us focused on the subject at hand without getting bogged down in irrelevant and off-topic digressions, Rhi ;)
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The worst story I heard was of a woman who had MS. She was prayed for and promised a cure; when it didn't happen she was told it was because she had 'unrepented sin' and she was told to leave the church that she belonged to.
I have Christian friends with severe depression; one self harms. And the vast majority of church leaders are woefully under-equipped to know how to deal with it.
Terrible stories Rhiannon. That poor lady with MS, how cruel.
I agree that church leaders are under-equipped to deal with depression but I don't think we should expect them to do any more than be kindly and supportive, they aren't therapists (unless they have trained in that field).
I know about depression, was diagnosed with clinical depression and anxiety several years ago. Well, many years ago now. I have learned to manage it without medication. People who've known me a while, like floo, know about it, it isn't a secret but I don't make a thing out of it. I was a bit too open on forums years ago and quite hurt by some remarks. People don't mean any harm, they just don't understand and it is unrealistic to expect them to unless they have similar experience.
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Been there, done that, Brownie. I have anxiety primarily, depression secondary. I'm reasonably open just because I never know who might need to hear something I have to say. And the more we talk about it the more it becomes a part of life in the same way as any other kind of illness is.
It's not a case of expecting church leaders to also be therapists or counsellors. They should have a basic training in how not to make things worse though.
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Yes you are right about that, Rhi. I think the mainstream churches, clergy and others, are more in tune than the extremists.
Well Rhiannon I would never have guessed about you, bless you for sharing.
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Thank you. There's nothing about me that makes me any different from you, or anyone else with a mental illness. These things can happen to anyone.
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Yes it is but mental illness is definitely the poor relation of the health service.
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Shamefully so.
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Indeed.
This one's about Christians though.
Oddly enough, all we have on this board is 'about Christians, though' as if it didn't happen in any other groups. 'These Christians' are so bad that we must attack them, but ignore any similar situations in any other group.
I'm not suggesting that Christians don't do such things, but the fact that it occurs in other groups - religious and non-religious alike - suggests that the 'Christian' element isn't the key element.
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Who said we should ignore it?
Floo provided a story about Christians. Feel free to provide as many as you like about other groups.
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I got that one on a mainstream debate forum.
And, of course, many mainstream forums are populated by doctors, scientists, teachers, nurses, engineers, ...; as well as by farmers, the retired, young people, the unemployed, those with various physical and mental health issues, politicians, ...
Was the example you "got ... on a mainstream debate forum" representative of the whole forum, of one particular individual or of a particular group of posters? After all, I doubt that anyone reading this debate board takes your posts, my posts, Shakes' post or Vlad's posts alone as representative of the board.
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I wonder what the Latin term is for whataboutery? Tu quoque is probably the closest related fallacy.
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I don't get the relevance of where Floo found it at all. Floo and Brownie discussed the fora that Floo uses but there's no relevance to the content of the link itself. It just provides more smoke and mirrors.
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Rhi, if you notice, Floo uses 'Christians' in the OP - not simple Christians. Now, is she questioning whether they really are Christians, is she trying to suggest that all Christians are like this, or what. Even her own story, which refers to a fundie Christian, is somewhat all-embracing. What or who does she mean by the term 'fundie Christian'? Is she referring to evangelicalism, or a group such as Westboro Baptist, or what?
I also believe that we often, perhaps unintentionally, hide reality when we go after a particular group. For instance, for decades it was assumed that domestic abuse was always a male on female issue - thnkfully we now know different, even if the majority are male on female. Similarly, for years it bwas a ssumed that paedophiles had to be men - an understanding that is slowly unravelling. Thirdly, and to repeat something I've already pointed out -
I'm not suggesting that Christians don't do such things, but the fact that it occurs in other groups - religious and non-religious alike - suggests that the 'Christian' element isn't the key element.
Post #15
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Let's not look at these here; what about we look at those over there ...
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I'll try and find something about non-Christian groups.
The Hassidic Jews tend to treat mental health problems in their own way but they are quite exclusive, we don't hear very much about what they do - unless anything goes seriously wrong and it gets into the news.
In the meantime, this old Guardian feature is quite interesting, albeit about evangelical Christians. It's not horrible!
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/22/evangelical-christian-church-mental-illness
This is about Hindus:
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/columns/Harsh_Mander/mental-illness-choice-and-rights/article4009222.ece
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Hindus, as a religious group, have no special views on the mentally ill. Hindus have no problems seeking medical intervention where required (if they can afford it).
Severe psychosis is a matter of taking care of the patient for life. This can be difficult and even impossible for most people at home. Institutional care is the only option, but monetary considerations come in. With millions still in poverty, this is a problem.
In the case of mild or initial mental illness, depression etc. most people will seek medical help but will also adopt religious methods as a complementary treatment. Most mental illnesses that don't have a physiological origin are due to the ego and its maladjustment with the environment. Religion and faith can be of great help in such cases where the ego needs to be brought under control or needs to be bypassed.
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Your posts are always interesting Sririam. I agree with much of what you have said but I wouldn't consider depressive illness to be mild. Obviously it isn't dangerous in the same way as psychosis, it is a totally different illness, but depression can be quite disabling. Some of the medication on offer is not helpful, it doesn't suit everyone.
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Your posts are always interesting Sririam. I agree with much of what you have said but I wouldn't consider depressive illness to be mild. Obviously it isn't dangerous in the same way as psychosis, it is a totally different illness, but depression can be quite disabling. Some of the medication on offer is not helpful, it doesn't suit everyone.
Depression can be due to many causes. If it is physiological in origin, then medical treatment is necessary....but as you say, standard medicine may not be very useful. I know this will create a major ruckus here ;)....but I know that homeopathy can be very useful for depression.
For depression that is due to relationship problems, financial issues, loneliness or other lifestyle issues.....religion (or secular spirituality) can be very useful.
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Definitely, that is reactive depression and it may clear up if the situation improves. Clinical depression is different but often an incident starts it off or it is a condition that has been there to some degree even from childhood, not recognised, and worsens. I'm wary of drugs but I've known some people who have improved greatly on medication so we cannot generalise.
It's a horrible, isolating business and has a knock on effect on physical health if it goes on for long. Naturally if someone has faith it will be a comfort but often patients say they are spiritually dry.
I don't know about homeopathy Sririam, What would be put in the water for depression, to create a 'memory'? Seratonin? Maybe it has a placebo effect.
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Definitely, that is reactive depression and it may clear up if the situation improves. Clinical depression is different but often an incident starts it off or it is a condition that has been there to some degree even from childhood, not recognised, and worsens. I'm wary of drugs but I've known some people who have improved greatly on medication so we cannot generalise.
It's a horrible, isolating business and has a knock on effect on physical health if it goes on for long. Naturally if someone has faith it will be a comfort but often patients say they are spiritually dry.
I don't know about homeopathy Sririam, What would be put in the water for depression, to create a 'memory'? Seratonin? Maybe it has a placebo effect.
Oh...I could go on about homeopathy. Here is an article I have written about it....
https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2013/02/04/alternative-medicines-1/
I have more than 30 years with homeopathy and find it extremely useful....and know something about it....(I am not a qualified homeopath or anything).
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If people are ill, physically or mentally they should always seek medical help first, imo. It is dangerous to listen to siren voices saying they will be cured if they put their faith in a religion or philosophy instead.
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If people are ill, physically or mentally they should always seek medical help first, imo. It is dangerous to listen to siren voices saying they will be cured if they put their faith in a religion or philosophy instead.
Yes..I agree. But some complementary treatments and religious practices can be surprisingly effective.
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Yes..I agree. But some complementary treatments and religious practices can be surprisingly effective.
As a placebo, possibly.
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If people are ill, physically or mentally they should always seek medical help first, imo. It is dangerous to listen to siren voices saying they will be cured if they put their faith in a religion or philosophy instead.
Sririam wasn't saying that, floo, he was saying that some complementary therapies are helpful and he particularly favours homeopathy. The whole person has to be treated, not just the bit that is ill. I'm sure we'd all agree with that unless we've got something like a cut finger.
I read the article Sririam and will read it again. I do know something about Ayurvedic medicine but, though I understand like can heal like, it seems to me that the dilution in homeopathy is so great as to be just taking water. However it seems to have worked for you (it is possible that the condition for which you nearly had a diagnostic lumbar puncture could just have cleared up on its own, it does happen). I have no objection at all to placebos.
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If people are ill, physically or mentally they should always seek medical help first, imo. It is dangerous to listen to siren voices saying they will be cured if they put their faith in a religion or philosophy instead.
Not sure of your own experience, but I've never actually heard or read any Christian teacher/preacher suggest otherwise, Floo. I've heard several second- and even further-handed stories, such as the one's we've had here, but never had first-hand experience of such things.
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I will share something, I have felt absolutely dreadful for a few days, what my old mum would have called ''bilious'', with a thumping headache. I vomited a couple of times. One of those things that isn't serious but is flipping horrible, could have been some sort of bug I suppose. I drank loads of water but not eaten until this morning. I haven't slept for a couple of nights either, couldn't with my head and nausea. Thank God I feel much better today, it's almost gone. I could do with a bit of sleep though. Oh blessed healing sleep!
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Sririam wasn't saying that, floo, he was saying that some complementary therapies are helpful and he particularly favours homeopathy. The whole person has to be treated, not just the bit that is ill. I'm sure we'd all agree with that unless we've got something like a cut finger.
I read the article Sririam and will read it again. I do know something about Ayurvedic medicine but, though I understand like can heal like, it seems to me that the dilution in homeopathy is so great as to be just taking water. However it seems to have worked for you (it is possible that the condition for which you nearly had a diagnostic lumbar puncture could just have cleared up on its own, it does happen). I have no objection at all to placebos.
A lumbar puncture for what condition, I have no recollection of that?
A member of my family is into homeopathy in a big way for her ailments. I am very concerned it is doing her much more harm than good.
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Sririam didn't say what the condition was floo but anyway he didn't have the lumbar puncture. He said he'd had a CT and presumably the LP was the next step in diagnosis.
I don't see how homeopathy can do harm unless your relly overdoses on it 100 times, it is mainly water after all. I'm a bit scared of it actually which I suppose is silly. Sririam really believes it works and his article is excellent. Still don't know what homeopathic treatment would be available for depression.
There used to be a Royal Homeopathic Hospital in Bloomsbury, it is now called something else (Alternative medicine hospital or similar). They had proper medical doctors there! The canteen was excellent, we who worked at GOS or NHNNS were allowed to go there and a few of us did occasionally. That's the nearest I've got to homeopathy.
Edit: Apparently this is recommended by homeopaths: Arsenicum album
I found a long article by a doctor from the British Homeopathy Association called ''Beating the blues'', which detailed the use of Arsenicum album. I found it very frightening, don't think I'll bother.
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I wonder what the Latin term is for whataboutery? Tu quoque is probably the closest related fallacy.
I take your point about tu quote, but the concern is that this forum is primarily seen as for the argument that Christianity is evil.I need we know this is the agenda of antitheists from their beloved question of Christianity and other religions " The root of all evil?
Anyone who subscribes to the positive answer to that .................
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I take your point about tu quote, but the concern is that this forum is primarily seen as for the argument that Christianity is evil.
Who is concerned about that? Nobody that I'm aware of. This forum is a debating chamber where some very smart people (and good writers) knock down the would-be arguments put forward for the truth of Christianity by others. Nobody is saying that Christianity is evil (despite the fact that the behaviour of innumerable people who style themselves thus certainly has been), although certainly many aspects of it strike many people as morally wrong. Somebody makes a silly, baseless claim or commits some elementary logical error, others point it out. That's all.
I need we know this is the agenda of antitheists from their beloved question of Christianity and other religions " The root of all evil?
Anyone who subscribes to the positive answer to that .................
I don't know of anyone who does. Do you?
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Who is concerned about that? Nobody that I'm aware of. This forum is a debating chamber where some very smart people (and good writers) knock down the would-be arguments put forward for the truth of Christianity by others.
I'd certainly like to see such a site........can you give us the web address?
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I'd certainly like to see such a site........can you give us the web address?
There are many, but I was referring to the one you're on now.
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There are many, but I was referring to the one you're on now.
No, I'm on the one where the floundering antitheists are.
The best the guys here can come up with is we don't know but we know it isn't God.
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No, I'm on the one where the floundering antitheists are.
I don't see anybody floundering here save those who make outlandish claims about the nature of reality with nary a scrap of evidence in their support or even an appropriate methodology for anyone to evaluate their claims, yet continue to peddle their wares nonetheless. That's floundering.
The best the guys here can come up with is we don't know but we know it isn't God.
Which, as you've been told many a time before, given that the concept lacks a consistent definition and its believers can't muster a methodology for evaluating claims of it, is a perfectly respectable position to hold.
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No, I'm on the one where the floundering antitheists are.
The best the guys here can come up with is we don't know but we know it isn't God.
It's a more honest position than 'we don't know so we'll fit God in that hole'. Although actually what people here generally claim is 'we don't know but we can't think it's god until there's evidence to the contrary.'
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I don't see anybody floundering here save those who make outlandish claims about the nature of reality with nary a scrap of evidence in their support or even an appropriate methodology for anyone to evaluate their claims, yet continue to peddle their wares nonetheless. That's floundering.
Which, as you've been told many a time before, given that the concept lacks a consistent definition and its believers can't muster a methodology for evaluating claims of it, is a perfectly respectable position to hold.
I'm sorry the scientism of this forum will not cut it since it is philosophy dressed up as methodology.
Science helps scientism as much as it helps any other philosophical position. I.e. Not at all.
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Uh oh, we're back on the -isms again ::)
Here's a little something I found earlier that reminded me exactly of you, Vlad: https://goo.gl/8DmYXJ
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Yes..I agree. But some complementary treatments and religious practices can be surprisingly effective.
And some incredibly damaging. Do you know which is which?
For example, religious ritual can be dangerous for people with OCD and Shaker alerted us to research showing that mindfulness can be dangerous for people with a tendency to bipolar and PTSD.
In terms of complementary therapies replacing medication with homeopathy is known to be dangerous. Herbal medicine can be effective but the interactions aren't always understood. The same applies to aromatherapy.
That's not to say medical science offers things that are universally safe. I've had some horrific experiences taking prescription medication, including feeling suicidal.
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Uh oh, we're back on the -isms again ::)
I suppose the ologies are OK then.
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Yeah, the -ologies are OK - they have the tools in place to be able to sift claims and sort out the most probably true from the most probably false, etc.
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I don't believe mindfulness is dangerous, I remember when we discussed that before.
Herbal remedies can be dangerous and some alternative medication - St John's Wort, 5-HTTP can make people feel very ill. I find it all a bit scary but I think all Sririam was saying was that some complementary therapies and religious practices are good, not all. Much depends on the individual.
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I don't believe mindfulness is dangerous, I remember when we discussed that before.
There's quite a lot of evidence that it can be bad (as in extremely psychologically disturbing) for a small number of people.
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I had a really horrible experience once when first trying mindfulness meditation, I started to get flashbacks to a past trauma and had a bad anxiety attack that stayed with me for days. I'm ok with it now though for some reason.
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It's a pretty significant psychological adjustment for most - it takes some getting used to. I'm a little surprised that more people don't experience problems than actually do.
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Yeah, the -ologies are OK - they have the tools in place to be able to sift claims and sort out the most probably true from the most probably false, etc.
Go on then.........oh and this time show your working out.
Yours not holding his breath Vlad.
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It's a pretty significant psychological adjustment for most - it takes some getting used to. I'm a little surprised that more people don't experience problems than actually do.
I'm not sure that everyone really does it - I think for a lot of people it's thinking nice thoughts.
Something else that isn't good in the mix is when a spiritual element gets thrown in - that God will speak through the silence. That can be very disturbing.
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Go on then.........oh and this time show your working out.
Go on then what?
Yours not holding his breath Vlad.
Oh, can't you try?
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Go on then what?
Oh, can't you try?
No it might be fatal to me .........but not to someone who talks out their arse......eh, Shaker ;)
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I'm not sure that everyone really does it - I think for a lot of people it's thinking nice thoughts.
Something else that isn't good in the mix is when a spiritual element gets thrown in - that God will speak through the silence. That can be very disturbing.
I've not heard of that Rhiannon though I imagine some types of meditation do entail listening to your unconscious. Mindfulness is quite gentle though - I don't do it, I'm not actually very good at that sort of thing, but I have a couple of books about it which I find interesting, and a colouring book. I would like to do it but my mind wanders all the time, I get no further than the breathing. Pity it is fashionable atm, I must admit I didn't know that when I first read about it but I'm never very up to date.
Anything that requires some psychological discipline could be problematic for some but they can always stop doing it if it doesn't suit them, like any exercise. People have different limits. If a person practices this religiously, ie they feel they have to do certain mental exercises every day, maybe at certain times or in a particular order, that's not what it's about. It's a chore rather than something done freely.
Sass, your post was very interesting and quite moving. I didn't know all that, thanks for sharing it. What you said about doctors is quite true, there is certainly no one rule for all. So I guess you would not be keen on homeopathy which Sririam wrote about, but it works for him. I wouldn't fancy it for depression frankly.
I have to say, when I read the BHA article about depression, it described some digestive and other physical symptoms which were almost exactly what I have had over the past few days. Spooky or what? I've felt quite depressed since reading that :D, if I could sleep I'd be happier but I'm glad not to have headache, diarrhoea and nausea any more.
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I rarely take medication of any sort, including painkillers, most don't agree with me. I had to come off statins after they did my liver no favours.
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And some incredibly damaging. Do you know which is which?
For example, religious ritual can be dangerous for people with OCD and Shaker alerted us to research showing that mindfulness can be dangerous for people with a tendency to bipolar and PTSD.
In terms of complementary therapies replacing medication with homeopathy is known to be dangerous. Herbal medicine can be effective but the interactions aren't always understood. The same applies to aromatherapy.
That's not to say medical science offers things that are universally safe. I've had some horrific experiences taking prescription medication, including feeling suicidal.
There is very little point in highlighting all the exceptions. Yes...all alternative medicines don't work equally well.....just as all modern medicines don''t work equally well. Some of them produce ill effects in some people. Statins, antibiotics...even paracetamol and aspirin create problems sometimes.
Mindful meditation creates problems for some people, religious practices create problems for some people, Yoga creates problems for some people....and so on.
Even normal food items create problems in some people. Peanuts don't agree with some people, wheat does not agree with some people, almonds do not agree with some people. and even many fruits and vegetables don't agree with some people. Some people are allergic to light!
We could go on........
The point is that there are many people with mental illnesses for whom alternative medicines and religious/spiritual practices help a lot.
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I agree, Sriram. It's a very individual thing. I was poorly throughout my teens with manic depression and latterly hospitalised for two years. My faith and talking to God/Jesus was an absolute saving grace.
One of my lads was treated very successfully by homeopathy for eczema. In answer to your question, Brownie, as to how does it work... all that is required is the energy pattern of the substance being used. That is why so little water is required to carry the transfer.
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One of my children had severe eczema as a baby and toddler. One day it just went away.
A miracle? Or just the fact that many small children outgrow eczema as they get older?
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One of my children had severe eczema as a baby and toddler. One day it just went away.
A miracle? Or just the fact that many small children outgrow eczema as they get older?
Why do you want to pass a judgement on SweetPea's experience? I have more than 30 years experience with homeopathy and I can vouch for its efficacy in certain areas. I am sure SweetPea's case was cured due to homeopathy.
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One of my children had severe eczema as a baby and toddler. One day it just went away.
A miracle? Or just the fact that many small children outgrow eczema as they get older?
This wasn't childhood eczema, though, my son was seventeen. The steroid creams make the eczema disappear but when you stop using them eventually the eczema returns. We noticed a difference in my son's condition almost over night. It's about treating the cause and not just the symptom.
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One of my children had severe eczema as a baby and toddler. One day it just went away.
A miracle? Or just the fact that many small children outgrow eczema as they get older?
Sadly my youngest daughter didn't!
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That was adult eczema SP. I don't normally pass on tips but this is something that really works, not just for eczema but for any type of skin rash (even psoriasis), as long as the skin isn't broken. Oil of evening Primrose applied to the affected area. It really does clear things up quickly and is far better than any steroid cream.
Anyway, that's my bit on skin.
I still don't know what homeopathic thing I'd use for depression SP. I mentioned the Arsenic stuff that I read about on the BHA site but it all sounds a bit vague and even dangerous. I don't doubt your son's eczema cleared up with homeopathy though - well, it obviously did. Marvellous!
I'm glad your faith was of such help to you with your manic depression SP. It must have been horrible to be hospitalised, that's quite unusual nowadays (I wouldn't mind if I had own en suite room, TV, wifi and nice food :D. I am jesting, I know it is a serious subject), and it sounds like you were away for a long time. Presumably you were being given medication and other treatment during your stay.
floo, I'm glad you stopped taking statins. They are quite lethal, can also make joints ache a lot so I'm told. I wouldn't touch them. Milk thistle, plant sterols and Resveratrol work better without side effects. Goodness I am dishing out stuff today, I don't make a habit of it but I know these things don't harm.
Just seen your post about your youngest daughter's eczema, sorry about that. I hope it doesn't weep, floo, and only flares up occasionally. I still get it sometimes at 66 but only small bits, as I said the Evening Primrose oil works wonders.
I said I was feeling better and nearly fell asleep a little while ago but the doorbell woke me; I didn't answer it, probably someone selling. I actually had something to eat, first thing since Friday! It was cottage pie that John made yesterday, very nice, I put a small portion in the microwave. It was really a small portion and I couldn't eat any more, I don't want to make myself sick and I do now feel a bit bloated (almost wish I hadn't eaten anything) - but I'll be OK. I must have a shower but can't bring myself to move just yet! I'm home alone, John is out car rallying, so I can please myself.
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Glad you are feeling better, Brownie, sounds as though you have had a bout of something very unpleasant.
I won't go into my illness again.... I spoke about it here in some detail a while back. Just to say, I was poorly in the '60s initially before the dawn of (the wonderful) Lithium Carbonate. But, oh gosh, mine was rather a 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' experience, with a Nurse Ratched thrown in, too.... the ward sister was quite a sergeant major.
I wouldn't like to comment on what homeopathic remedy could be used for depression.... perhaps Sriram has some ideas.
Btw: just to say, my two sons are in their mid-thirties but I still refer to them as my lads!
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That was adult eczema SP. I don't normally pass on tips but this is something that really works, not just for eczema but for any type of skin rash (even psoriasis), as long as the skin isn't broken. Oil of evening Primrose applied to the affected area. It really does clear things up quickly and is far better than any steroid cream.
Anyway, that's my bit on skin.
I still don't know what homeopathic thing I'd use for depression SP. I mentioned the Arsenic stuff that I read about on the BHA site but it all sounds a bit vague and even dangerous. I don't doubt your son's eczema cleared up with homeopathy though - well, it obviously did. Marvellous!
I'm glad your faith was of such help to you with your manic depression SP. It must have been horrible to be hospitalised, that's quite unusual nowadays (I wouldn't mind if I had own en suite room, TV, wifi and nice food :D. I am jesting, I know it is a serious subject), and it sounds like you were away for a long time. Presumably you were being given medication and other treatment during your stay.
floo, I'm glad you stopped taking statins. They are quite lethal, can also make joints ache a lot so I'm told. I wouldn't touch them. Milk thistle, plant sterols and Resveratrol work better without side effects. Goodness I am dishing out stuff today, I don't make a habit of it but I know these things don't harm.
Just seen your post about your youngest daughter's eczema, sorry about that. I hope it doesn't weep, floo, and only flares up occasionally. I still get it sometimes at 66 but only small bits, as I said the Evening Primrose oil works wonders.
I said I was feeling better and nearly fell asleep a little while ago but the doorbell woke me; I didn't answer it, probably someone selling. I actually had something to eat, first thing since Friday! It was cottage pie that John made yesterday, very nice, I put a small portion in the microwave. It was really a small portion and I couldn't eat any more, I don't want to make myself sick and I do now feel a bit bloated (almost wish I hadn't eaten anything) - but I'll be OK. I must have a shower but can't bring myself to move just yet! I'm home alone, John is out car rallying, so I can please myself.
Brownie,
If you still have a problem with depression please consult a qualified homeopath. I am sure it'll help significantly. Don't take any drugs on your own.
I do self medicate....but very carefully and after many years of study and experimentation with the drugs. I do visit a qualified homeopath whenever I need to....besides normal mainstream doctors, of course.
Don't worry about how it works. We may find out some time in the future. The point is that it works for certain illnesses almost miraculously.
And don't go for the 'placebo' explanation....because no one really knows what a placebo actually is. Its just a word people throw about to explain away anything they don't understand.
Cheers.
Sriram
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Sadly my youngest daughter didn't!
Has she had patch testing done? Best way to control dermatitis in adulthood is to find out which allergen is triggering it. If it's more chronic dry skin then coconut oil is good. You can buy big pots of it in supermarkets.
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Thanks Sririam. I certainly won't self medicate (been there and done that), I'll consider consulting a qualified homeopath.
Bless you SP, I won't pry any more. Glad the Lithium worked for you - there's a song called 'Lithium' by Nirvana. Isn't good for everyone but every patient is different, it must be marvellous to find something that is effective.
I have one child 36, a smashing lad!
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Just saw your post Rhiannon. I really don't want to contradict you because of course you are right about an allergen but the problem is, there is often more than one allergen and often nothing can be isolated (I've had all that). Just to add, I am allergic to coconut oil and cocoa butter ;D. We can't win can we?
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Why do you want to pass a judgement on SweetPea's experience? I have more than 30 years experience with homeopathy and I can vouch for its efficacy in certain areas. I am sure SweetPea's case was cured due to homeopathy.
I was offering my own experience which could be easily given a woo explanation. It's easy to attribute a cure to prayer, or homeopathy, or consulting star charts, when actually it is a part of a natural healing process. What else could have happened when SP's son got better? A placebo effect? A stress reduction? Changing washing powders or clothing fabrics? A change in toiletries?
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Just saw your post Rhiannon. I really don't want to contradict you because of course you are right about an allergen but the problem is, there is often more than one allergen and often nothing can be isolated (I've had all that). Just to add, I am allergic to coconut oil and cocoa butter ;D. We can't win can we?
Were you diagnosed in a hospital or a complementary clinic? I only ask because I have friends who use the latter and end up 'allergic' to so many things based on hair analysis or kinesiology.
I was patch tested in hospital and my consultant dermatologist said that creams and moisturisers are management strategies until testing can be carried out and allergens eliminated. It turned out that I'm allergic to formaldehyde - Google it to see what I need to avoid - although mine is at the milder end of what can be the most horrific allergy to have. It never goes away and I have to be vigilant all the time. But it is what it is.
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NHS clinic. I have ideas about what I am allergic to, I have had a couple of very bad allergic skin reactions, each lasting approximately 3.5 months. Very decorative I was! It was painful too. It certainly has a stress/emotional component. I know how to head it off now.
Eczema I get occasionally, had it as a baby. It went and then came back but only little bits. Fingers, legs, back of ears once - but it isn't bad like when I was little. I haven't had it for a long time.
Sririam, I looked up a qualified homeopath on the BHA site and, lo and behold, there is one down the road and I know him slightly. He works at a clinic and is a podiatrist, he does my old man's feet!
Mr Anthony Saunders BSc(Hons)Pod.Studies D.Pod.M LFHom(Pod)
Chislehurst Clinic Ltd
69 High Street
Chislehurst
Kent
BR7 5AG
Distance: < 1 mile
Registration: Faculty of Homeopathy
t: 020 8467 1910
e: chislehurstclinic.co.uk
I was wondering if he only does homeopathy on feet in view of this: LFHom(Pod). I can only ask.
He also does Morris dancing apparently, well it figures. Used to go to festivals in a VW camper. I know all this because he chats to John as he chops and files away, they talk about cars.
I might give the clinic a ring tomorrow.
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Hi Brownie,
Its nice that you found a homeopath very near your home. You could ask him about your depression and allergies. I am sure it'll help.
You must remember that in homeopathy....you often need to try different drugs before hitting on the right one. It depends on how closely your symptoms match the drug selected. So...you may have to continue seeing the practitioner again and again if your problem persists or gets aggravated or some other symptom arises. The drug or the potency may have to be changed.
Go through my article in detail for further info.
Good luck and Good night!
Sriram
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Thanks, I'll let you know if I pursue it.
Later: Don't think Mr Saunders will do, he is a corn, bunion and heel pain man! http://www.chislehurst-clinic.co.uk/news/team/tony-saunders
I'll look around for someone else.
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NHS clinic. I have ideas about what I am allergic to, I have had a couple of very bad allergic skin reactions, each lasting approximately 3.5 months. Very decorative I was! It was painful too. It certainly has a stress/emotional component. I know how to head it off now.
Eczema I get occasionally, had it as a baby. It went and then came back but only little bits. Fingers, legs, back of ears once - but it isn't bad like when I was little. I haven't had it for a long time.
Sririam, I looked up a qualified homeopath on the BHA site and, lo and behold, there is one down the road and I know him slightly. He works at a clinic and is a podiatrist, he does my old man's feet!
Mr Anthony Saunders BSc(Hons)Pod.Studies D.Pod.M LFHom(Pod)
Chislehurst Clinic Ltd
69 High Street
Chislehurst
Kent
BR7 5AG
Distance: < 1 mile
Registration: Faculty of Homeopathy
t: 020 8467 1910
e: chislehurstclinic.co.uk
I was wondering if he only does homoeopathy on feet in view of this: LFHom(Pod). I can only ask.
He also does Morris dancing apparently, well it figures. Used to go to festivals in a VW camper. I know all this because he chats to John as he chops and files away, they talk about cars.
I might give the clinic a ring tomorrow.
The key word in those addresses 'chisle', think you may have missed it Brownie.
ippy
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What, like, ''Chisle my Nizzle'', ippy? (Urban)
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Thanks Sririam. I certainly won't self medicate (been there and done that), I'll consider consulting a qualified homeopath.
Self medication is definitely not recommended, but homoeopathic "remedies" don't actually contain any medicine, so you could self-"medicate" all you want. Indeed, people have taken mass "overdoses" in protest at pharmacies selling these sugar pills as if they worked (any better than a placebo).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8489019.stm
Don't waste your money.
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Self medication is definitely not recommended, but homoeopathic "remedies" don't actually contain any medicine, so you could self-"medicate" all you want.
Not necessarily ... https://goo.gl/Ht6KsY
:D
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If anyone wants a decent complementary therapy for depression or feeling out of sorts go for a massage. Not everyone likes touch but there's a good one with hot stones that's great for releasing tension.
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Not necessarily ... https://goo.gl/Ht6KsY
:D
;D ;D ;D
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If anyone wants a decent complementary therapy for depression or feeling out of sorts go for a massage. Not everyone likes touch but there's a good one with hot stones that's great for releasing tension.
A long time ago now but I had a shiatsu session once that left me glowing like the Ready Brek kid. (Showing my age there ::) ).
Such research as there has been implies that it's ineffective with regard to things like cancer symptoms, but I didn't have cancer and so wasn't looking for any kind of 'cure' for anything - it was simply an exceptionally pleasant bit of massage and joint manipulation that left me feeling incredibly deeply relaxed. (I'm told that you're advised not to drive or do anything strenuous or indeed anything much immediately after a shiatsu session). Like 10mg of diazepam on an empty stomach or a joint of really good weed or a few glasses of an especially fine single malt, anything that makes you feel that good 'works' as far as I'm concerned insofar as 'working' refers to making you feel all-over good in a superb way. I don't claim that my single and entirely anecdotal case points to anything above, beyond or outside of itself so I'm not making claims for shiatsu in terms of the relief of symptoms of serious illness - it feels amazing, and if that's not an expression of health and well-being, what the hell else is. In such cases it's a supportive treatment, I'd have thought.
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Sounds lovely, I thought shiatsu was a canine breed, d'oh.
Anything that makes you feel better and does no harm, is excellent.
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What, like, ''Chisle my Nizzle'', ippy? (Urban)
No, more Chislee Weasel.
ippy
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Pretty little mammals found in woodland areas with hedgehogs, hares, foxes and unusual bird colonies.
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Pretty little mammals found in woodland areas with hedgehogs, hares, foxes and unusual bird colonies.
Weasels pretty little predators that are well known for wriggling their way out of things and places.
Chisel as in chiselling,(slang), confidence trickster.
I'm sure you already knew that these were the type of people I was referring to.
The placebo effect does work to an extent, but isn't a sufficient excuse for trying these religious ideas, that wouldn't amount to much more for these seriously ill people than a placebo.
Where do these peoples brains go when they start going on about demons and devils, maybe I'm mistaken, but I did think I'm living in the 21st century, mind, this was in America where they do seem to have a lot more than their fair share of way out religious nutters.
I think it's going to be a lot longer before there is any kind of general and realistic understanding of mental incapacity, it's difficult enough understanding a lot of it even when you have sympathetic thoughts towards those afflicted.
ippy
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Yes I did know ipster. I've met a few but can't think of anyone in my acquaintance who fits the bill now.
I can honestly say I've never known anyone who goes on about devils/demons and the like, when I was younger I was easily spooked and if I had encountered such a person I'd have run a mile. It's not likely to happen now. I used to read about that stuff though and scared myself silly, not surprising because I was actually frightened by Christopher Lee as Dracula when I watched old Hammer films on the telly! Low tolerance level.
Without wishing to generalise, charismatic/pentecostalists go in for praying in the spirit, healing and casting out of evil spirits. We have fringe churches in this country who do that, you mentioned the USA where it is more widespread but it's bound to be as it's a bigger country. I've not witnessed it personally but read about it and there has been the occasional news item or documentary.
I do believe we can be oppressed, whether it be by negative thoughts, guilt, past bad experiences, fears or even other people we know, and to lift that is very releasing. Secular counselling and psychotherapy can be helpful. The CofE and the Catholic Church both do a quiet form of praying with those oppressed who are also believers, but don't make a big thing out of it.
The Prince of Peace Community is something that charismatic Catholics interested in renewal may be involved in, they have healing services and run seminars but you wouldn't be interested. I believe Alan B has done a course with them, 'Life in the Spirit'. I also did that course in the early 1990s.