Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bluehillside Retd. on July 21, 2016, 05:57:19 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li7wNTkL-dY
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I'm pretty sure that is a spoof. There are other videos in the series like the pizza one where you have to think she is acting. Nobody could be that stupid and still find their way to the polling station.
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Perhaps - seems pretty genuine though.
If it is, worrying innit?
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Perhaps - seems pretty genuine though.
If it is, worrying innit?
Yes. It's a bit like that 'brexit street' item (on PM Radio 4). I turned off as soon as it started yesterday. To hear people talking about their reasons for voting out has dented my incurable optimism!
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Today I listened, because the interviewer was speaking to asylum seekers who are living there. I hope some of the other residents were listening too; they might then perhaps make an effort to get to know for example the young nan from Eritrea who is working hard to improve his English so that he can attend nursing training as soon as his papers are processed.
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Democracy works fine, but only if the government isn't corrupted.
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Democracy works fine, but only if the government isn't corrupted.
No, democracy will get rid of a corrupt government. However, it does need the media to be in a healthy state so that the people are properly informed of the corruption.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li7wNTkL-dY
Weeks behind.... watched it weeks ago.
Deliberate and not really funny. But in her way she was saying she would know where her food came from being able to buy British from our own Farmers. Know the source and know it was good because of our high food quality control standards.
Truth is Britain had to come out to keep in with end time Prophecy. Also the Government oppressed the poor and was highly unlikely to succeed in oppressing them even more by allowing in the influx of greater numbers of people.
We are Britain the UK. We want to remain independent and like the USA able to trade where and to whom we want.
There is no protection being in the EU and there is no way we can be ruled by a power outside that which is within our own borders.
EVEN the Queen was believed to have said: " I see no point in us being in the EU!"
Neither do I, nor many others see the point. Hence they voted out. All the EU has done is make this Countries poor, disabled and elderly worse off.
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I am still very much of the opinion we will be much worse off out of the EU, we need each other.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li7wNTkL-dY
It sounds fairly typical of the people I know who voted LEAVE.
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Truth is Britain had to come out to keep in with end time Prophecy. Also the Government oppressed the poor and was highly unlikely to succeed in oppressing them even more by allowing in the influx of greater numbers of people.
Does your medical advisor know that you are taking these psychoactive substances?
We are Britain the UK. We want to remain independent and like the USA able to trade where and to whom we want.
Never heard of TTIP then?
There is no protection being in the EU and there is no way we can be ruled by a power outside that which is within our own borders.
Delusive nonsense.
EVEN the Queen was believed to have said: " I see no point in us being in the EU!"
There is a difference between "the queen is believed to have said" and "the queen said". What is the origin of your believed statement? What is its veracity?
All the EU has done is make this Countries poor, disabled and elderly worse off.
Objective, documentary, referenced evidence please.
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Truth is Britain had to come out to keep in with end time Prophecy.
How do you make that out?
Please show your working.
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Seb, you would be surprised how many people believe the very same.
Here is a link to a site which explains the theory - especially if you scroll down a bit.
http://www.seekingtruth.co.uk/europe.htm
I can't get my head around it because, for a start, the book of Revelation is so full of symbolism anything can be read into it. People who believe in the above also make connections with Palestine/Israel, the rise of Islam and various other world happenings.
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When I was a kid I remember my Father reading some crazy book, written by an idiot who thought the fantasy book of Revelation predicted all sorts of things relevant to modern times. This guy stated we would never join the EU in the first place!
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Seb, you would be surprised how many people believe the very same.
Here is a link to a site which explains the theory - especially if you scroll down a bit.
http://www.seekingtruth.co.uk/europe.htm
I can't get my head around it because, for a start, the book of Revelation is so full of symbolism anything can be read into it. People who believe in the above also make connections with Palestine/Israel, the rise of Islam and various other world happenings.
I'd have quite a lot of respect if a Christian sect just rejected Revelation as drivel.
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I'd have quite a lot of respect if a Christian sect just rejected Revelation as drivel.
Revelation is believed to have been written by John of Patmos. The Patmos islands are well know for their hallucinogenic mushrooms.
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In the new Testament, it's the equivalent of Jimmy Saville outside a primary school, all sweaty and perverse.
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In the new Testament, it's the equivalent of Jimmy Saville outside a primary school, all sweaty and perverse.
Revelation always reminds me of "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" which is known to have been written by a man on drugs.
e.g.
". . .
The very deep did rot: O Christ!
That ever this should be!
Yea, slimy things did crawl with legs
Upon the slimy sea.
About, about, in reel and rout
The death-fires danced at night;
The water, like a witch's oils,
Burnt green, and blue and white.
And some in dreams assurèd were
Of the Spirit that plagued us so;
Nine fathom deep he had followed us
From the land of mist and snow.
And every tongue, through utter drought,
Was withered at the root;
We could not speak, no more than if
We had been choked with soot.
Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the Albatross
About my neck was hung.
. . ."
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I'd have quite a lot of respect if a Christian sect just rejected Revelation as drivel.
I was taught that Revelation/Apocalypse was written in code by John, exiled on Patmos, as warning to his fellow Christians who were facing persecution at that time. They, presumably, would have understood what he was talking about.
It was considered to be a dangerous book because of the potential for individual interpretation and there was much debate about whether or not to include it in the Bible. There were other apocalyptic works which were deemed far more dangerous so in the end, Revelation as we know it, was included.
When I was at school way back, in RE we were told not to think too much about Revelation and study the rest of the Bible :D! Not quite in those words of course but we were discouraged from reading it (probably because study of Rev needed a slot to itself and we'd have learned nothing else).
It certainly is a very controversial book open to endless interpretations, many of which I have learned about since posting on Christian forums and which leave me gobsmacked.
LA I lurve 'The Ancient Mariner', it is beautifully, depressingly hope-less. (Also makes me think of John Cleese selling Albatross, with or without wafers, from an ice cream tray during the interval at 'Monty Python Live at Drury Lane'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PJix23IeF8 )
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Does your medical advisor know that you are taking these psychoactive substances?
You mean does the end time prophecies actually come true?
Yep! Micheal Wilkinson told of the uniting of countries and the one monetary union well before the EU existed.
He also foretold Greece going belly up on their loan and the banks closing.
You need to read all material available it helps to be educated in these matters before opening a clanging manhole.
Never heard of TTIP then?
So we cannot control our own food safety and banking safety guards as well as trade?
Remind me again just how Greece was able to find themselves unable to pay their loan and had to close their banks?
It didn't work them and it doesn't work now. All about power and you cannot gain control of the UK if it isn't in.
Delusive nonsense.
Tell Greece that... tell us why they were not safe and why they could not afford to pay their loan and the financial difficulties we had to bail them out from.
LIKE our ex prime-minister you believed we would cut ourselves a better deal when we helped USA to take control when the union failed. WRONG... they would have wanted singular control and we would have handed it to them on plate.
Just as foreign countries now charge us for our own fuel and water. Whose brilliant idea was that to make us pay for our own fuel through the eyes and nose. Keep talking to yourself, but at least try dipping your toe into reality now and again.
There is a difference between "the queen is believed to have said" and "the queen said". What is the origin of your believed statement? What is its veracity?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/queen-asks-guests-to-give-her-3-reasons-why-britain-should-remai/
The Queen was asking her dinner guests for three good reaons why we should remain in europe.
It was during one of these conversations when talking the Queen is believed to have said she could see no reason for us remaining. But you did not even know she had been asking for 3 good reasons to remain.
The remark came from a tv program I was watching and the Queen was believed to have made the comment one week before the vote.
Objective, documentary, referenced evidence please.
It is a little like the religion threads... Asking for what you purposely refuse to look for yourself.
If you were not so narrow minded and only looking for things to support your own ideas and wants. You might actually be able to collect all the information out there and base your decision upon the wider facts available. But you make up your mind without all the facts as your replies clearly show.
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How do you make that out?
Please show your working.
As I just pointed out to HH. If you wanted the facts that is all the facts you would have looked and known about these things yourself and the person/s who revealed the prophecies and the bible references.
King James Bible
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
In every age the truth stands.
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Which Michael Wilkinson, the costume designer, OU lecturer, Telegraph journalist, LSE professor? There are probably more.
There is a David Wilkerson and you may mean him. From the link below it would seem he is the sort of chap to talk about end times, I'd never heard of him before.
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/a-40-year-old-david-wilkerson-prophecy-is-being-fulfilled-right-in-front-of-our-eyes
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Which Michael Wilkinson, the costume designer, OU lecturer, Telegraph journalist, LSE professor? There are probably more.
There is a David Wilkerson and you may mean him. From the link below it would seem he is the sort of chap to talk about end times, I'd never heard of him before.
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/a-40-year-old-david-wilkerson-prophecy-is-being-fulfilled-right-in-front-of-our-eyes
Yes, I thought that Sassy might have had a predictive text issue
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/David_Wilkerson
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Yes, I thought that Sassy might have had a predictive text issue
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/David_Wilkerson
You would have that with his ability for prophecy he would have avoided the car crash that killed him ::)
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Oh poor soul, RIP. Still never heard of him but wouldn't want anyone to have a car accident, the very thought terrifies me.
I didn't know people had predictive text issues on the internet :-[, shows how ignorant I am, thought it was only on text messaging.
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Sassy: "...the Queen was asking her dinner guests for three good reaons why we should remain in europe.
It was during one of these conversations when talking the Queen is believed to have said she could see no reason for us remaining. ...."
I too heard of this. The Queen wanted as much information, and opinion, as possible. She also asked her guests for three good reasons why the UK should leave the EU. She did not give her own opinion, maybe she was like many others and wasn't sure of the implications whichever way the vote went. No doubt she also asked the same questions of her many relatives amongst the crowned and uncrowned heads of Europe. None of it makes much difference though.
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Oh poor soul, RIP. Still never heard of him but wouldn't want anyone to have a car accident, the very thought terrifies me.
I didn't know people had predictive text issues on the internet :-[, shows how ignorant I am, thought it was only on text messaging.
If you post from your smartphone, which I occassionally do, it can throw in the odd mistake.
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As I just pointed out to HH. If you wanted the facts that is all the facts you would have looked and known about these things yourself and the person/s who revealed the prophecies and the bible references.
King James Bible
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
In every age the truth stands.
I asked YOU.
I cannot be expected to have read everything said by each end times prophecy nutter can I?
Who is Michael Wilkinson anyway? I can find a costume designer with that name, is he dressing up his prophecies?
:-\ :-\
Please show your working.
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Understand now. Don't have a smart 'phone, have an old 'phone.
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Oh the profound irony.
You delve into your book of myths and legends and come up with:
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive
and do not realise that it could well be describing your own behaviour on this forum.
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You would have that with his ability for prophecy he would have avoided the car crash that killed him ::)
You really think that is a suitable reply?
What about President Lincoln who saw his own death in a dream and did not avoid it?
Maybe they had somewhere else they preferred to be. Where you going when you die?
It is his prophecies which are coming true...
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I asked YOU.
I cannot be expected to have read everything said by each end times prophecy nutter can I?
Who is Michael Wilkinson anyway? I can find a costume designer with that name, is he dressing up his prophecies?
:-\ :-\
Please show your working.
I did my study of Michael in the 70's you get your own information.
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I did my study of Michael in the 70's you get your own information.
Can we just clarify the correct name of the person to whom you refer.
In order that I can do some research.
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I found this book:
Global Pentecostal Movements: Migration, Mission, and Public Religion, edited by Michael Wilkinson, Leiden and Boston: Brill, 2012, 237 pp., ISBN: 978 900 423546 5,
and this:
Global Pentecostal Movements: Migration, Mission, and Public Religion, edited by Michael Wilkinson, Leiden and Boston: Brill, 2012, 237 pp., ISBN: 978 900 423546 5,
Michael Wilkinson Phd, Professor of Sociology and Religion Ottowa
Maybe that is the Michael Wilkinson discussed here.
He's written quite a lot of books.
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I found this book:
Global Pentecostal Movements: Migration, Mission, and Public Religion, edited by Michael Wilkinson, Leiden and Boston: Brill, 2012, 237 pp., ISBN: 978 900 423546 5,
and this:
Global Pentecostal Movements: Migration, Mission, and Public Religion, edited by Michael Wilkinson, Leiden and Boston: Brill, 2012, 237 pp., ISBN: 978 900 423546 5,
Michael Wilkinson Phd, Professor of Sociology and Religion Ottowa
Maybe that is the Michael Wilkinson discussed here.
He's written quite a lot of books.
Maybe it is but I would rather be sure rather than wasting time looking up the wrong fella!
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Yeah, true :). There isn't much information about him anyway, only about his books. This is him:
http://twu.ca/directory/faculty/michael-wilkinson.html
Maybe Sassy will come back and tell us if it is the same guy.
Thinking about it, this guy is a bit young - Sass said she had researched him in the 1970s (blimey, she was very young then too!), so he probably isn't the right man. Wish I hadn't found him now :-[, but there's no-one else of that name, with the same interests, that I can find on the internet.
The late David Wilkerson, on the other hand, about whom there is abundant information, seems to fit the bill.
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NS,
Yes, I thought that Sassy might have had a predictive text issue
Very, very good ;D
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You really think that is a suitable reply?
What about President Lincoln who saw his own death in a dream and did not avoid it?
Maybe they had somewhere else they preferred to be. Where you going when you die?
It is his prophecies which are coming true...
Yes i think its a suitable reply.
Im not going anywhere when i die. Like tthe rest of us i'll decompose in some fashion. Still an upside of it will be that i'll be free of fuckwits who put any credence in zeeing the future.
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Sassy,
It is his prophecies which are coming true...
How do you know that? What investigation have you done about this chap's "prophesies" that didn't come true in order to decide that the ones that did weren't just dumb luck in the same proportion as you'd expect from any other list of guesses?
Beware the Baltimore stock picker!
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/13/how-not-to-be-wrong-hidden-maths-jordan-ellenberg-review
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NS,
Very, very good ;D
Glad someone appreciated it.
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What about President Lincoln who saw his own death in a dream and did not avoid it?
A fable. This is a story that first saw the light of day about twenty years after his death, and is probably an elaboration of several different events. He did not foresee his own death.
He did recall dreams and try to impose some meaning on them - apparently he repeatedly dreamt of sailing at very high speed, sometimes before important events such as battles.
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You really think that is a suitable reply?
It seemed pretty on the point to me.
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Can we just clarify the correct name of the person to whom you refer.
In order that I can do some research.
Nah! It is on the references on the internet.
I have always called him Wilkerson or Wilkinson because I often forget which one it is. But I know if I do internet referral it gives the correct name.
So look up both. :)
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We've done that and it is Mr Wilkerson about whom you are speaking. As you say there's a lot of information about him. Now I can't remember why his name came up :-[, I'll have to read back a bit.
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What has David Wilkerson got to do with Brexit?
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You mean does the end time prophecies actually come true?
Yep! Micheal Wilkinson told of the uniting of countries and the one monetary union well before the EU existed.
He also foretold Greece going belly up on their loan and the banks closing.
You need to read all material available it helps to be educated in these matters before opening a clanging manhole.
So we cannot control our own food safety and banking safety guards as well as trade?
Remind me again just how Greece was able to find themselves unable to pay their loan and had to close their banks?
It didn't work them and it doesn't work now. All about power and you cannot gain control of the UK if it isn't in.
Tell Greece that... tell us why they were not safe and why they could not afford to pay their loan and the financial difficulties we had to bail them out from.
LIKE our ex prime-minister you believed we would cut ourselves a better deal when we helped USA to take control when the union failed. WRONG... they would have wanted singular control and we would have handed it to them on plate.
Just as foreign countries now charge us for our own fuel and water. Whose brilliant idea was that to make us pay for our own fuel through the eyes and nose. Keep talking to yourself, but at least try dipping your toe into reality now and again.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/queen-asks-guests-to-give-her-3-reasons-why-britain-should-remai/
The Queen was asking her dinner guests for three good reaons why we should remain in europe.
It was during one of these conversations when talking the Queen is believed to have said she could see no reason for us remaining. But you did not even know she had been asking for 3 good reasons to remain.
The remark came from a tv program I was watching and the Queen was believed to have made the comment one week before the vote.
It is a little like the religion threads... Asking for what you purposely refuse to look for yourself.
If you were not so narrow minded and only looking for things to support your own ideas and wants. You might actually be able to collect all the information out there and base your decision upon the wider facts available. But you make up your mind without all the facts as your replies clearly show.
This is how he came up, Maeght, though the name was wrong at the start which led to confusion.
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This is how he came up, Maeght, though the name was wrong at the start which led to confusion.
Thanks Brownie, saved a lot of ''searching'. So he predicted Greece (actually 'a European or North African or Eastern nation is going to default on its international loan') followed by Mexico defaulting (or 'probably Argentina or Brazil'). What a wonderfully accurate prophecy and not something anyone else could possibly have thought might happen (Mexico having defaulted before and not being exactly a stable financial country) - of course, it must be divine prophecy. Surely that can't be it can it?
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Nah! It is on the references on the internet.
I have always called him Wilkerson or Wilkinson because I often forget which one it is. But I know if I do internet referral it gives the correct name.
So look up both. :)
I have looked up both and I can find no references to either Michael Wilkinson or Michael Wilkerson in conjunction with prophecy and Greece as described by you.
Yep! Micheal Wilkinson told of the uniting of countries and the one monetary union well before the EU existed.
He also foretold Greece going belly up on their loan and the banks closing.
I did my study of Michael in the 70's you get your own information.
So are you still going to be so uncharitable and not point to something, anything which directly identifies the Michael (Wilkerson/Wilkinson) to whom you refer?
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Seb, look at Maeght's post above yours! She has sussed what Mr Wilkerson was on about.
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Seb, look at Maeght's post above yours! She has sussed what Mr Wilkerson was on about.
Sorry - which post?
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Your post #45, Maeght (I know you were being tongue in cheek).
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Thanks Brownie, saved a lot of ''searching'. So he predicted Greece (actually 'a European or North African or Eastern nation is going to default on its international loan') followed by Mexico defaulting (or 'probably Argentina or Brazil'). What a wonderfully accurate prophecy and not something anyone else could possibly have thought might happen (Mexico having defaulted before and not being exactly a stable financial country) - of course, it must be devine prophecy. Surely that can't be it can it?
A typical religious scammer.
He identified about a third of the planet. And the deluded and the credulous just lapped it up.
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It's a sad business. I'd never heard of him before this thread but there are many others like him, they have a target audience that they exploit but I am not going to go on about it any more because we are all vulnerable at times. Makes me want to weep.
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Your post #45, Maeght (I know you were being tongue in cheek).
Ooops sorry - I read it that I should read Seb's post above mine, rather than the other way around - been a long day!
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Seb, look at Maeght's post above yours! She has sussed what Mr Wilkerson was on about.
Nope, that can't be the correct person.
Sassy has explained that he got the surname confused,which given the similarities is quite understandable. However she has explicitly used the Christian name Michael, twice. As we know, Sassy couldn't possibly get that wrong, (twice) given the level of accuracy that she consistently provides here.
Michael, David. David, Michael, not possible surely!
Not from little miss perfect.
So I will await her response if you don't mind. ::)
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Sassy Quote: From other thread
It is David Wilkerson just wondered how long you will go on not seeing what is in front of you.
All of you knew but none wanted to speak the truth.
When I first searched for MICHAEL Wilkerson then David came up.
It was left in but none of you admitted to the deliberate error because you would have had to admit that he really did prophecy somethings going back 20 years or more.
It shows how far each will allow something to go on because they know to reveal the truth makes them answerable to his preaching and prophecies.
WHY couldn't you admit to finding the real name when you first googled?
I found it when I first googled but so did you. Yet none of us said anything did we>?
Bah!
A number of people posted that it was David Wilkerson, including me. Spotting that 'deliberate error' doesn't mean people accept that he did prophesies anything.
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Nope, that can't be the correct person.
Sassy has explained that he got the surname confused,which given the similarities is quite understandable. However she has explicitly used the Christian name Michael, twice. As we know, Sassy couldn't possibly get that wrong, (twice) given the level of accuracy that she consistently provides here.
Michael, David. David, Michael, not possible surely!
Not from little miss perfect.
So I will await her response if you don't mind. ::)
In the years past the real Brownie has been involved in discussions and even knows the book he is most famous for. The cross and the switchblade.
Funny how someone claiming only to have read very little
condemns a Christian who was responsible for Nicky Cruz the leader of the gang called 'The Mau Maus' ... coming to Christ.
He wrote the book The cross and the Switchblade,
He was the founder of the addiction recovery program Teen Challenge, and founding pastor of the non-denominational Times Square
Church in New York.
Wilkerson's widely distributed sermons, such as "A Call to Anguish", are known for being direct and frank against apostasy
and serious about making the commitment to obey Jesus' teachings. He emphasized such Christian beliefs as God's holiness
and righteousness, God's love toward humans and especially Christian views of Jesus.
Wilkerson tried to avoid categorizing Christians
into distinct groups according to the denomination to which they belong.
The Brownie I knew had indeed heard of the author David Wilkerson.
I wasn't really paying much attention to her posts. Now I won't even be reading them I had to make sure and test the truth. David Wilkerson was no conman he really followed Jesus Christ and he has saved many young persons life from drugs and gang related activities.
A man who put his own life at risk to save young children on the street and the lives they would have taken had they remained there. What makes me weep is when people make false accusations against a man who only did good to others.
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In the years past the real Brownie has been involved in discussions and even knows the book he is most famous for. The cross and the switchblade.
Funny how someone claiming only to have read very little
condemns a Christian who was responsible for Nicky Cruz the leader of the gang called 'The Mau Maus' ... coming to Christ.
He wrote the book The cross and the Switchblade,
The Brownie I knew had indeed heard of the author David Wilkerson.
I wasn't really paying much attention to her posts. Now I won't even be reading them I had to make sure and test the truth. David Wilkerson was no conman he really followed Jesus Christ and he has saved many young persons life from drugs and gang related activities.
A man who put his own life at risk to save young children on the street and the lives they would have taken had they remained there. What makes me weep is when people make false accusations against a man who only did good to others.
The Real Sassy knew he was called David Wilkerson, not Michael Wilkinson, so who are you?
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In the years past the real Brownie has been involved in discussions and even knows the book he is most famous for. The cross and the switchblade.
Funny how someone claiming only to have read very little
condemns a Christian who was responsible for Nicky Cruz the leader of the gang called 'The Mau Maus' ... coming to Christ.
He wrote the book The cross and the Switchblade,
The Brownie I knew had indeed heard of the author David Wilkerson.
I wasn't really paying much attention to her posts. Now I won't even be reading them I had to make sure and test the truth. David Wilkerson was no conman he really followed Jesus Christ and he has saved many young persons life from drugs and gang related activities.
Pardon?!
What the fuck are you on about?
Either you got the name wrong and didn't have the good grace to admit it.
Or
... you lied (aka 'tested the truth' 'deliberate error').
If you are really that anally retentive that you cannot , ever admit to being wrong, then you need pity, lots of it. :(
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The Real Sassy knew he was called David Wilkerson, not Michael Wilkinson, so who are you?
I explained about the surname issue. And I have been honest about the first name issue.
Never denied knowing about him. Nor have I done anything to get someone banned deliberately.
I was being honest and upfront. I guess it was the fact everyone using Michael.
I am very tired a lot. My own health issues and my daughters give me cause for forgetting things or not realising something I wrote is not quite right.
In the last year or so two people left the forum abruptly without any explanation and as if something about to come out.
Given this mans true history and track record of helping addicts, homeless kids and gang members escape becoming murderers and addicts tell me why someone would character assassinate him who says they believe in Christ and love God?
I think the reality is something you need to question not cast dispersions.
I was concentrating more on the surname got caught up but also seeing what God was doing and showing me behind the scenes took a lot of my attention.
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I explained about the surname issue. And I have been honest about the first name issue.
Never denied knowing about him. Nor have I done anything to get someone banned deliberately.
I was being honest and upfront. I guess it was the fact everyone using Michael.
I am very tired a lot. My own health issues and my daughters give me cause for forgetting things or not realising something I wrote is not quite right.
In the last year or so two people left the forum abruptly without any explanation and as if something about to come out.
Given this mans true history and track record of helping addicts, homeless kids and gang members escape becoming murderers and addicts tell me why someone would character assassinate him who says they believe in Christ and love God?
I think the reality is something you need to question not cast dispersions.
I was concentrating more on the surname got caught up but also seeing what God was doing and showing me behind the scenes took a lot of my attention.
You were arguing that people should investigate someone whose name you got wrong. You are telling people off for being wrong for not understanding whom you meant. I am not casting 'dispersions. You did.
Michael was used because you used it, nothing else.
I have no problem with people making mistakes, I make them all time. But you spent some time on this thread berating people for not being able to do research on someone whose first and second names you got wrong. If you want the courtesy extended to you for being wrong, then you owe them an apology.
Oh and BTW there is no comment in my post about you trying to get anyone banned. Please retract .
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Sassy,
Given this mans true history and track record of helping addicts, homeless kids and gang members escape becoming murderers and addicts tell me why someone would character assassinate him who says they believe in Christ and love God?
No-one has "character assassinated" him. I've no idea whether or not he did these things, but I have no reason to doubt that he did. Your claim though was that he was able accurately to prophesise future events - something that's almost certainly not the case. If you have evidence to contrary though, why not produce it?
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I don't know the 'Sword and the Switchblade' though the name sounds familiar - but I do remember having read 'Run, Baby Run' by Nicky Cruz. He probably mentioned Wilkerson, I can't remember the details of the book now having read so many over the years. I completely gave up reading any books of a religious nature a very long time ago because I'd overdosed on them, after a time they all ran into eachother and my head was buzzing. That's something I've stated many, many times on forums! Much prefer a novel.
Anyway I am not doubting what Sassy says, she tells the truth but, honestly, David Wilkerson's name and story did not ring any bells with me. There are countless stories of evangelistic preachers with tales of saving people from lives of sin, and healings, in print and on the internet & honestly I can't be bothered with them. Earlier on I said it all made me very sad and that I wasn't going to revisit the subject, I wish I had stuck to that but I will now. Nothing new for me to say in any case.
I need calm in my life and am quite happy with my relationship with God without the help of televangelists. Neither do I care if Sassy reads my posts or not, past caring frankly.
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You were arguing that people should investigate someone whose name you got wrong. You are telling people off for being wrong for not understanding whom you meant. I am not casting 'dispersions. You did.
Michael was used because you used it, nothing else.
I have no problem with people making mistakes, I make them all time. But you spent some time on this thread berating people for not being able to do research on someone whose first and second names you got wrong. If you want the courtesy extended to you for being wrong, then you owe them an apology.
Don't you find that a little two faced?
Brownie
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Re: Brexit: maybe democracy isn't such a good idea after all...?
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2016, 04:42:02 PM »
Quote
Yeah, true :). There isn't much information about him anyway, only about his books. This is him:
http://twu.ca/directory/faculty/michael-wilkinson.html
Maybe Sassy will come back and tell us if it is the same guy.
Thinking about it, this guy is a bit young - Sass said she had researched him in the 1970s (blimey, she was very young then too!), so he probably isn't the right man. Wish I hadn't found him now :-[, but there's no-one else of that name, with the same interests, that I can find on the internet.
The late David Wilkerson, on the other hand, about whom there is abundant information, seems to fit the bill.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 06:37:49 PM by Brownie »
AT ANY TIME YOU COULD HAVE POINTED THIS POST OUT, AS INDEED ANY ONE OF YOU COULD HAVE DONE. Hence I was correct in your deliberately ignoring the truth in the thread posts.
So at any time any of you could have asked me if it I meant David Wilkerson.
Why didn't you?
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Sassy,
No-one has "character assassinated" him. I've no idea whether or not he did these things, but I have no reason to doubt that he did. Your claim though was that he was able accurately to prophesise future events - something that's almost certainly not the case. If you have evidence to contrary though, why not produce it?
Brownie
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2016, 05:16:02 PM »
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It's a sad business. I'd never heard of him before this thread but there are many others like him, they have a target audience that they exploit but I am not going to go on about it any more because we are all vulnerable at times. Makes me want to weep.
He exploited no one....
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Don't you find that a little two faced?
AT ANY TIME YOU COULD HAVE POINTED THIS POST OUT, AS INDEED ANY ONE OF YOU COULD HAVE DONE. Hence I was correct in your deliberately ignoring the truth in the thread posts.
So at any time any of you could have asked me if it I meant David Wilkerson.
Why didn't you?
No, I don't see reply 22 from me.
You have told others on this thread for not doing research on someone whose name you got wrong. So why don't you owe them an apology? If you should be forgiven for making mistakes, then when people like Seb Toe are not sure who you jean because you got it wrong, and the possibility you got it wrong was coveted in reply 21 and 22, from Brownie and me, surely you owe them an apology for not being sure whom you meant when you got it wrong?
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No, I don't see reply 22 from me.
You have told others on this thread for not doing research on someone whose name you got wrong. So why don't you owe them an apology? If you should be forgiven for making mistakes, then when people like Seb Toe are not sure who you jean because you got it wrong, and the possibility you got it wrong was coveted in reply 21 and 22, from Brownie and me, surely you owe them an apology for not being sure whom you meant when you got it wrong?
I think your dreaming then you fall face down in your breakfast.
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I think your dreaming then you fall face down in your breakfast.
I forgive you
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Sassy,
He exploited no one....
First, perhaps you didn't read that post properly. Here's the relevant part again:
"...but there are many others like him, they have a target audience that they exploit..."
I've put the key words on bold so you don't miss them this time.
Second, again your claim was that he prophesised stuff. As you've just ignored that most relevant part, have you changed your mind about that?
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I forgive you
Ha Ha ;D
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Sassy,
First, perhaps you didn't read that post properly. Here's the relevant part again:
"...but there are many others like him, they have a target audience that they exploit..."
I've put the key words on bold so you don't miss them this time.
Second, again your claim was that he prophesised stuff. As you've just ignored that most relevant part, have you changed your mind about that?
Past your bedtime Blue. Now be a good boy and go straight back to sleep. :)
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Ha Ha ;D
I don't understand why you laugh at forgiveness?
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Sassy,
Past your bedtime Blue. Now be a good boy and go straight back to sleep. :)
I forgive you too.
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I think your dreaming then you fall face down in your breakfast.
Pathetic. :(
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Ha Ha ;D
Moderator
Insult removed, can we try and avoid comments that are merely insults
edit
no worries
then how about...
Pathetic.
??
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So at any time any of you could have asked me if it I meant David Wilkerson.
Why didn't you?
Do you mean like this........?
The late David Wilkerson, on the other hand, about whom there is abundant information, seems to fit the bill.
Don't you find that a little two faced?
:-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
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I don't understand why you laugh at forgiveness?
May be the same reason you believe you don't require it, yet offer it to others.
It isn't difficult to work out. :)
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May be the same reason you believe you don't require it, yet offer it to others.
It isn't difficult to work out. :)
I have often asked for forgiveness. So please do not misrepresent me.
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I have often asked for forgiveness. So please do not misrepresent me.
You have asked God for forgiveness?
You know what I was referring to. I did not misrepresent you or anything you said.
I just assumed you knew what you were talking about. Only God can forgive sins.
As I have not sinned against you what other reason could you be offering forgiveness for?
I believe I have shown you had no reason for this last comment.
God forbid you must think anyone thinks you can have a normal conversation with a Christian
without appearing to remain civil.
I have no such hang ups it isn't a game for me being a believer. I really do have a relationship with God and I have nothing to prove about my faith to others.
Nothing to sustain because it is real to me. I am sad you could not maintain a civil and polite conversation. If you must falsely accuse me, there is nothing that can be said to change your mind and your intent to bring it to an unfruitful end. Good night.
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You have asked God for forgiveness?
You think that NS believes in your God?
If not then your point is utterly meaningless. ::)
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You have asked God for forgiveness?
You know what I was referring to. I did not misrepresent you or anything you said.
I just assumed you knew what you were talking about. Only God can forgive sins.
As I have not sinned against you what other reason could you be offering forgiveness for?
I believe I have shown you had no reason for this last comment.
God forbid you must think anyone thinks you can have a normal conversation with a Christian
without appearing to remain civil.
I have no such hang ups it isn't a game for me being a believer. I really do have a relationship with God and I have nothing to prove about my faith to others.
Nothing to sustain because it is real to me. I am sad you could not maintain a civil and polite conversation. If you must falsely accuse me, there is nothing that can be said to change your mind and your intent to bring it to an unfruitful end. Good night.
You didn't mention god, you talked about never asking for forgiveness. I have done often so you misrepresent me. I have remained entirely civil here. Again please do not mispresent me. I feel deeply for you situation and forgive you for you doing this. I can only hope your life get's better.
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You didn't mention god, you talked about never asking for forgiveness. I have done often so you misrepresent me. I have remained entirely civil here. Again please do not mispresent me. I feel deeply for you situation and forgive you for you doing this. I can only hope your life get's better.
^^^^
A good example of remaining cool and civilised when dealing with a difficult 'customer'!
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I read the Cross and the Switchblade years ago, I didn't like it. Wilkerson was just another of those extremist Christians who fill their sycophants with a load of unsupportable garbage!
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I've met Nicky Cruz (briefly after attending a talk he gave).
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I've met Nicky Cruz (briefly after attending a talk he gave).
Another extremist evangelist the world could do without!
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As I couldn't sleep last night I spent some time reading up on David Wilkerson and was not unimpressed with his early work with members of violent street gangs. He certainly wasn't a 'big name' then, starting in 1958, just an ordinary guy who, with his wife, gave up a relatively secure and comfortable life to work helping violent young men. He was prompted to do this after reading about a particularly violent murder committed by two boys who were gaoled for life. As he came from an extremely humble background himself he felt some affinity with these young men.
Nicky Cruz who wrote 'Run Baby Run' was someone on whom he had a great influence, helping him to change his life. One may dislike Nicky Cruz's ethos in many respects but he was certainly better for leaving gang life behind.
I make no mention of Wilkerson's faith, prophecies (one of which was there will be big earthquakes in Japan ::)), evangelism, or the business with his son about which I found no more than we have already discussed; only the work he chose to do which struck me as commendable. He's not the only one of course and no-one needs a religious faith to feel strongly about helping others, however religious faith takes nothing away from what he did early on in his career.
Reminds me somewhat of Jackie Pullinger whose work with drug addicts has been truly remarkable.
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You think that NS believes in your God?
If not then your point is utterly meaningless. ::)
Get a grip of yourself, man. :D
You cannot have it both ways. Decide now. You are educated enough to know what the course of the discussion was in the light of Christianity or you will remain uneducated and asking meaningless questions which won't be answered because quite frankly you haven't the ability to learn when explained.
Which is it? I am all ears or should that be eyes to see if you can sincerely and honestly answer the above.
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You didn't mention god, you talked about never asking for forgiveness. I have done often so you misrepresent me. I have remained entirely civil here. Again please do not mispresent me. I feel deeply for you situation and forgive you for you doing this. I can only hope your life get's better.
What were you forgiving me for?
Well, you see you have to show something done wrong and why it is wrong if you were really not using those words with anything to do with religion and don't use a law or religion to accuse of wrong not even a moral one because we all know the laws are based and were based on the bible teachings of right and wrong. Floor is yours.
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Sass if you really believe in your version of god, maybe you should be asking its forgiveness for making the faith look stupid, which many of your posts do. You give the impression you are always right and the rest of us, including some Christians, are wrong. No one is perfect, we are all humans and make mistakes, I make plenty! If I was a Catholic I would be spending 99.9% of my time in confession! :D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li7wNTkL-dY
This is typical of all sorts of interview type programs where the person making the interview has a bias, hang on to any inarticulate people that phone in that oppose the views of show host and drop the articulate ones that oppose the hosts P O V like hot bricks.
The BBC interviewers are instructed about this technique within their basic training.
ippy
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Get a grip of yourself, man. :D
You cannot have it both ways. Decide now. You are educated enough to know what the course of the discussion was in the light of Christianity or you will remain uneducated and asking meaningless questions which won't be answered because quite frankly you haven't the ability to learn when explained.
Which is it? I am all ears or should that be eyes to see if you can sincerely and honestly answer the above.
I am educated to know that you are talking bullocks.
You are so far up your own backside that you can't see the wood for the entire fecking amazon forest.