Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on September 16, 2016, 03:10:25 PM
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Any opinions? Have to say I haven't seen her speak
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37387162
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...and I haven't heard her ;).
She says all the expected UKIP stuff.
Admires Vladimir Putin for trying to unite his country :o - (well, extreme nationalism is a Russian characteristic, 'Holy Mother Russia' and all that).
Committed to fighting for Brexit, she obviously feels it is still undecided.
A bit bitchy.
She does look very nice indeed, if you were out somewhere and saw her you'd never guess.
I'll be interested to hear how she actually sounds, there are bound to be some interviews.
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I'd put money on Nigel making a comeback before too long.
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I'd put money on Nigel making a comeback before too long.
just after the appearance on I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here
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just after the appearance on I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here
Very likely.
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Very likely.
wherein he is challenged to eat a Luxembourgeiose's anus
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wherein he is challenged to eat a Luxembourgeiose's anus
which for expenses, he does
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He won't notice the taste and defo won't mind anything chewy - a challenge!
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...and I haven't heard her ;).
She says all the expected UKIP stuff.
Admires Vladimir Putin for trying to unite his country :o - (well, extreme nationalism is a Russian characteristic, 'Holy Mother Russia' and all that).
Committed to fighting for Brexit, she obviously feels it is still undecided.
A bit bitchy.
She does look very nice indeed, if you were out somewhere and saw her you'd never guess.
I'll be interested to hear how she actually sounds, there are bound to be some interviews.
I was at the Question Time broadcast from Eastleigh after Chris Huhne's resignation. She just reiterated the usual UKIP rubbish.
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I've seen quite a lot of her on various political programmes, Andrew Neil and the like. She is quite impressive, but a leader? That remains to be seen.
As to the "usual UKIP rubbish": how arrogant and offensive to at least 4,000,000 voter that comment is. I suggest her "rubbish" is no better or worse than that of uncle Jeremy, or the now departed Cameron/Osborne clique.
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I've seen quite a lot of her on various political programmes, Andrew Neil and the like. She is quite impressive, but a leader? That remains to be seen.
As to the "usual UKIP rubbish": how arrogant and offensive to at least 4,000,000 voter that comment is. I suggest her "rubbish" is no better or worse than that of uncle Jeremy, or the now departed Cameron/Osborne clique.
as opposed to saying 16,000,000+ voters are losers? Shiny, shiny mirror?
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as opposed to saying 16,000,000+ voters are losers? Shiny, shiny mirror?
Pardon me! The 16,000.000 in question weren't winners; therefore they were....... finish the sentence yourself.
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Pardon me! The 16,000.000 in question weren't winners; therefore they were....... finish the sentence yourself.
are you honestly saying that you are not aware of the pejorative sense of losers? And if you are then surely the 4,000,000 UKIP voters are then just losers?
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are you honestly saying that you are not aware of the pejorative sense of losers? And if you are then surely the 4,000,000 UKIP voters are then just losers?
They wouldn't have been if we'd had a democratic voting system in the General Election. The Referendum was the very epitome of democracy and fairness. It is the losers there who are to be reprimanded for making feeble attempts to overthrow the will of the majority. Not only losers, but sore losers.
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They wouldn't have been if we'd had a democratic voting system in the General Election. The Referendum was the very epitome of democracy and fairness. It is the losers there who are to be reprimanded for making feeble attempts to overthrow the will of the majority. Not only losers, but sore losers.
they would still be losers, no matter the voting system surely? And then losers that having opposed PR would be hypocritical losers by your approach.
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they would still be losers, no matter the voting system surely? And then losers that having opposed PR would be hypocritical losers by your approach.
I'm not overly bothered about UKIP being losers; I'm just saying that the fact that they got 4,000,000 votes and one MP is a tad unfair, whatever you think of their politics. The Tories are ruling having got 33% of the vote, and only 25% of the votes of those eligible to vote. The Referendum was the largest and fairest democratic vote in our history. Fortunately, the right side won.
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UKIP was always a one man band and now it has totally lost its raison d'être. The new leader is a matter of complete irrelevance.
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I'm not overly bothered about UKIP being losers; I'm just saying that the fact that they got 4,000,000 votes and one MP is a tad unfair, whatever you think of their politics. The Tories are ruling having got 33% of the vote, and only 25% of the votes of those eligible to vote. The Referendum was the largest and fairest democratic vote in our history. Fortunately, the right side won.
I think our current system if voting is unfair, I've spent years campaigning about it. You think UKIP are hypocritical losers
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I think our current system if voting is unfair, I've spent years campaigning about it. You think UKIP are hypocritical losers
The only interest I have in UKIP is that they were the catalyst for the Referendum, and for that I am thankful.
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The only interest I have in UKIP is that they were the catalyst for the Referendum, and for that I am thankful.
And now obviously you think they are hypocritical losers
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I was at the Question Time broadcast from Eastleigh after Chris Huhne's resignation. She just reiterated the usual UKIP rubbish.
As one would expect (I must have missed that episode).
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...and I haven't heard her ;).
She says all the expected UKIP stuff.
Admires Vladimir Putin for trying to unite his country :o - (well, extreme nationalism is a Russian characteristic, 'Holy Mother Russia' and all that).
Committed to fighting for Brexit, she obviously feels it is still undecided.
A bit bitchy.
She does look very nice indeed, if you were out somewhere and saw her you'd never guess.
I'll be interested to hear how she actually sounds, there are bound to be some interviews.
If she took on some of May's dress sense that would be good.
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I'd put money on Nigel making a comeback before too long.
I wouldn't.
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I was at the Question Time broadcast from Eastleigh after Chris Huhne's resignation. She just reiterated the usual UKIP rubbish.
Your lack of fish in your diet has really addled your brain.
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The Referendum was the largest and fairest democratic vote in our history. Fortunately, the right side won.
I don't think that any other democratically-based organisation would have accepted such a small majority as a reason to - to all intents and purpioses - change their constitution. As such, I'd suggest that it was a highly undemocratic vote from the outset, whether one believes the right or wrong side won. At the same time, I'm not convinced that anyone won, because the divisions that have ensued are doing very little to help Britain back onto its feet.
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Brexit seems not too bad as long as we don't trigger article 50
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I don't think that any other democratically-based organisation would have accepted such a small majority as a reason to - to all intents and purpioses - change their constitution. As such, I'd suggest that it was a highly undemocratic vote from the outset, whether one believes the right or wrong side won. At the same time, I'm not convinced that anyone won, because the divisions that have ensued are doing v...
This is a democracy. The winner in a vote is the one who gets most votes, whether that be one vote, or, as in this case, one and a quarter million votes. I don't recollect such comments as yours being expresses before the Referendum. It seems it's the typical and predictable response of the loser, to cry foul! It's over; Brexit won: get over it.
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UKIP is a nasty racist party and I believe the new woman in charge is a Farage clone by all accounts!
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I don't recollect such comments as yours being expresses before the Referendum.
No as I recall it was Mr Farage who did that with him saying that if remain won by 52-48 it would be unfinished business. In other words he wouldn't have accepted the vote.
Sauce for the goose and all that. ::)
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UKIP is a nasty racist party and I believe the new woman in charge is a Farage clone by all accounts!
I expect she's scum, eh?
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A bit strong Anthony. She's just a person like anyone else but one with particularly forceful views which, unlike most, she is prepared to put into action. Don't know how bright she is. I've been reading about her and now I do remember having seen her on TV, on Question Time, a while back but didn't remember her name.
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I caught a speech by her on the TV, it seems UKIP now see themselves as the only viable opposition party.
Labour being busy with its own fracas what with Corbyn being asked to step down and the ongoing hoo-haa.
She seems a bit too forceful and dictatorial for my taste, perhaps the word is revolutionary.
What ever it is, she makes me uneasy.
:o
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A bit strong Anthony. She's just a person like anyone else but one with particularly forceful views which, unlike most, she is prepared to put into action. Don't know how bright she is. I've been reading about her and now I do remember having seen her on TV, on Question Time, a while back but didn't remember her name.
I think he is just teasing Floo about her term " evil scum" for people she doesn't like much ;D
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I enjoyed her 'kiss' with Farage. She looked like she was eating a wasp, and swallowing a lemon.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2016/09/look-amazing-and-horrifying-image-nigel-farage-trying-kiss-new-ukip-leader
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I enjoyed her 'kiss' with Farage. She looked like she was eating a wasp, and swallowing a lemon.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2016/09/look-amazing-and-horrifying-image-nigel-farage-trying-kiss-new-ukip-leader
If you scroll down further there are some comparisons that made me smile, Jabba the Hutt and Alien.
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No as I recall it was Mr Farage who did that with him saying that if remain won by 52-48 it would be unfinished business. In other words he wouldn't have accepted the vote.
Sauce for the goose and all that. ::)
All the anti-Farage posters have no hesitation in quoting him when it suits them! It is of no consequence anyway. It is not up to him to decide anything. Once again: the Referendum is over: Brexit won.
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When I saw the word, "Fracas" in one of your previous posts, Rose, on first sight I thought it was something else! Phew, what a relief. (I did get what BA meant about floo and 'scum'.)
Yes she does seem dictatorial.
The kiss with Farage was magical, Wigginhall. I could just imagine Titanic-style romantic music playing ;):D.
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Many Germans thought Hitler was an ok guy, and we know how that turned out. I am of the opinion Farage and those who support UKIP, because of its racist spiel, are in the same mould!
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Many Germans thought Hitler was an ok guy, and we know how that turned out. I am of the opinion Farage and those who support UKIP, because of its racist spiel, are in the same mould!
What a silly comment!
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Sieg Heil!
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Sieg Heil!
So, Now it's clear!! You're Nazi sympathiser are you, eh! And you pretending to be anti-Farage!!!!!!! I am totally shocked!!
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All the anti-Farage posters have no hesitation in quoting him when it suits them! It is of no consequence anyway. It is not up to him to decide anything. Once again: the Referendum is over: Brexit won.
Brexit might have won but Brexiters have lost, just like everybody else.
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Brexit might have won but Brexiters have lost, just like everybody else.
Sure, Brexiters won. and I'm sure UK will prove to be winners in the fullness of time. I am not a pessimist, like you; I talk up our country, and with good justification.
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Brexit might have won but Brexiters have lost, just like everybody else.
Exactly!
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Sure, Brexiters won.
The terms in which you are thinking are too narrow. Yes, they won the vote by a very narrow majority, but actually, they have lost, just like everybody else. They are just too stubborn to see it yet.
and I'm sure UK will prove to be winners in the fullness of time.
In the fullness of time, the UK will be a small unremarkable inward looking country consisting of just England and Wales with no great ambitions.
I am not a pessimist, like you; I talk up our country, and with good justification.
I'd rather not talk up a nation that is turning its back on the wider World.
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This is a democracy. The winner in a vote is the one who gets most votes, whether that be one vote, or, as in this case, one and a quarter million votes. I don't recollect such comments as yours being expresses before the Referendum. It seems it's the typical and predictable response of the loser, to cry foul! It's over; Brexit won: get over it.
Sorry, BA, but if you look at a whole host of organisations, from Trades Unions to big Business, constitutional issues are never decided on a 50%+1 basis. I would have argued the same had the Remain campaign 'won', because I was campaigning for a more definitive 'majority' requirement long before the event.
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Sorry, BA, but if you look at a whole host of organisations, from Trades Unions to big Business, constitutional issues are never decided on a 50%+1 basis. I would have argued the same had the Remain campaign 'won', because I was campaigning for a more definitive 'majority' requirement long before the event.
Hope,
The Referendum was conducted on the understanding that a simple majority would win the day. It's no use complaining now. I was not aware of any significant argument against the method beforehand.
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Sure, Brexiters won. and I'm sure UK will prove to be winners in the fullness of time. I am not a pessimist, like you; I talk up our country, and with good justification.
The problem is that, if things go as it looks they might, we could be a 'winner' in a vastly de-powered world economy. Brexiters said that this coulkd all be sorted in a year or two. Even if Cameron had traiggetred Article 50 on the day after the result, it looks increasingly as if its going to be a long-drawn out process taking us up to and beyond the next General Election in 2020.
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The problem is that, if things go as it looks they might, we could be a 'winner' in a vastly de-powered world economy. Brexiters said that this coulkd all be sorted in a year or two. Even if Cameron had traiggetred Article 50 on the day after the result, it looks increasingly as if its going to be a long-drawn out process taking us up to and beyond the next General Election in 2020.
We don't know. I doubt anyone does. It becomes increasingly pointless to speculate, especially as we aren't privy to what may be in the minds of those at the helm.
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Hope,
The Referendum was conducted on the understanding that a simple majority would win the day. It's no use complaining now. I was not aware of any significant argument against the it. the method beforehand.
Precisely, BA - and it was because of this understanding that I and others campaigned - albeit the campaign got lost in the 'noise' of the rest of the process - that the understanding should be changed. In fact, over the years I and others have spoken to MPs and the Electoral Reform Society about changing the majority required in major votes like this.
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The problem is that, if things go as it looks they might, we could be a 'winner' in a vastly de-powered world economy. Brexiters said that this coulkd all be sorted in a year or two. Even if Cameron had traiggetred Article 50 on the day after the result, it looks increasingly as if its going to be a long-drawn out process taking us up to and beyond the next General Election in 2020.
I haven't followed the thread, as it seems to me to be something of a nerd-fest!
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Precisely, BA - and it was because of this understanding that I and others campaigned - albeit the campaign got lost in the 'noise' of the rest of the process - that the understanding should be changed. In fact, over the years I and others have spoken to MPs and the Electoral Reform Society about changing the majority required in major votes like this.
Well, I fear you have been wasting your time. Nothing is going to change any time soon. On that basis you have to accept that we are working on a simple majority basis, and were in the Referendum. And it's now over and done.
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I'd rather not talk up a nation that is turning its back on the wider World.
But it is precisely the opposite that we are doing. We are extending to the wider world, and at the same time intending to maintain our links with Europe, but not constrained under the aegis of the EU Constitution
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The problem is that, if things go as it looks they might, we could be a 'winner' in a vastly de-powered world economy. Brexiters said that this coulkd all be sorted in a year or two. Even if Cameron had traiggetred Article 50 on the day after the result, it looks increasingly as if its going to be a long-drawn out process taking us up to and beyond the next General Election in 2020.
I think you are right, the Government will be trying to see if there is anything which can be done to mitigate the disaster of Brexit.
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I think you are right, the Government will be trying to see if there is anything which can be done to mitigate the disaster of Brexit.
Name one thing that can be called a disaster. I don't mean what you think might happen, but what has happened so far.
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We don't know. I doubt anyone does.
It's become extremely concerning to me that you voted for a massive change to our position in the World and now you are freely admitting that you don't know what is going to happen.
It becomes increasingly pointless to speculate, especially as we aren't privy to what may be in the minds of those at the helm.
So you blindly followed the leader without understanding what they were going to do. Right. You placed everybody's future in doubt without any understanding of what happens next. You are irresponsible in the extreme.
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But it is precisely the opposite that we are doing.
We have turned our back on the World because of xenophobia.
We are extending to the wider world,
No we aren't. Europe is part of the wider World and we just gave it two fingers.
and at the same time intending to maintain our links with Europe
Why have we just screwed over the EU then?
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We have turned our back on the World because of xenophobia.
No we aren't. Europe is part of the wider World and we just gave it two fingers.
Why have we just screwed over the EU then?
We have left the EU so that we are our own masters and not at the behest of them and their machinations, and dictated to by unelected politicians. As to your earlier comment about my not knowing what would happen, I was referring to how the various deals and negotiations would evolve. I have said I believe we will accomplish a better situation for the UK, but I don't pretend to know how it will all be achieved, and the detail of it: I am not a professional negotiator or politician. I do believe, fervently, that we will be better off for all this.
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We have turned our back on the World because of xenophobia.
No we aren't. Europe is part of the wider World and we just gave it two fingers.
Why have we just screwed over the EU then?
Britain needs the EU we are far too small to stand alone these days. The vociferous Brexiteers fail to comprehend that.
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Britain needs the EU we are far too small to stand alone these days. The vociferous Brexiteers fail to comprehend that.
Too small? Fifth largest economy in the world. A nuclear power. By your thinking there are only four countries fit to stand alone. Nonsense!
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No as I recall it was Mr Farage who did that with him saying that if remain won by 52-48 it would be unfinished business. In other words he wouldn't have accepted the vote.
Sauce for the goose and all that. ::)
That's right twist things to suit your project fear narrative.
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What a silly comment!
Leave Floo alone. When she's frothing at the mouth she can't help it, poor love!
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Brexit might have won but Brexiters have lost, just like everybody else.
The game isn't over yet!
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I'd rather not talk up a nation that is turning its back on the wider World.
You have proof of this, Jeremy?
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Too small? Fifth largest economy in the world. A nuclear power. By your thinking there are only four countries fit to stand alone. Nonsense!
Just quit the grandstanding and try to use your brain. (I know, it's a vain hope ...)
The following numbers are thousand million dollars (in other words you have to imagine there are 9 noughts following the decimal point) and they have come from the United Nations in 2014.
In order of GDP the largest economies in the world are:
1 European Union 18.5
2 USA 17.3
3 China 10.4
4 Japan 4.6
5 Germany 3.9
6 UK 3.0
OK, the EU value includes the UK, but the UK only accounts for 16% of the GDP of the EU. That means that 84% of the EU's GDP is due to its other members. The rest of the EU is five times as large as the UK.
The USA is five times the size of the UK and China three times.
And you think that we are a major player in world terms? No, we are just one of the fattest mackerel being rounded up by the sharks for their dinner.
Name one thing that can be called a disaster.
How about the steel works in South Wales that Tata closed just before the "referendum"? The xenophobic folly of the South Wales voters has totally screwed any chance of a buyer being found. It has also possibly ensured that the UK ceases to be a steel-producing country and will now be subject to the whims of the market - dominated by China.
Oh, freedom from the grip of the EU is so refreshing. We can take our place on the world stage - in the prompt corner.
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We have left the EU so that we are our own masters and not at the behest of them and their machinations, and dictated to by unelected politicians.
A quick question, BA. Since a lot of British government is done by unelected civil servants, not MPs, how does our 'democracy' differ from that of the EU?
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That's right twist things to suit your project fear narrative.
The real Project Fear was the Brexit campaign's - but I didn't think Trent was pro-Brexit.
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Too small? Fifth largest economy in the world. A nuclear power. By your thinking there are only four countries fit to stand alone. Nonsense!
And how much of that 5th position is as a result of trade with the EU?
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And how much of that 5th position is as a result of trade with the EU?
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that we will gain even more when we are our own masters.
Have a good night, I'm going to look at the Paralympics.
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We have left the EU so that we are our own masters and not at the behest of them and their machinations,
You realise "they" were partly chosen by us. We were part of the EU.
and dictated to by unelected politicians.
The European Parliament is elected.
As to your earlier comment about my not knowing what would happen, I was referring to how the various deals and negotiations would evolve.
So was I. Your lot have dumped us out of the EU with no plan and no clue about what happens next.
I have said I believe we will accomplish a better situation for the UK
But you also believe in a God that became his own son and then engineered his own death to save us from a rule he made. What you believe is worth nothing.
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You realise "they" were partly chosen by us. We were part of the EU.
The European Parliament is elected.
So was I. Your lot have dumped us out of the EU with no plan and no clue about what happens next.
But you also believe in a God that became his own son and then engineered his own death to save us from a rule he made. What you believe is worth nothing.
I don't know why I am so surprised at your ignorance of the reality of the situation: perhaps you have been slacking in your googling recently! The real power in the EU is not the Parliament, but the unelected Commission, where the unctuous Jean-Claude Juncker holds sway, and he dislikes the UK. Naïve and uninformed people like you don't realise the power he has over us and our lives. That is what we have shaken off, and it is to the betterment of us all. Certainly "we" voted for these organisations, but that was a long time ago, and we didn't realise what we were letting ourselves in for; and it was before it evolved into the stifling monolith it has become As to the no-plan comment: true, but that is entirely down to Cameron and Osborne, who, in their total failure to appreciate what people were thinking, believed, arrogantly, that it was all plain sailing for them, and no plan was needed. The accusation is not one that should be aimed at Brexiters, but at your lot, complacent Remainers, who so lacked political nous, and were the ones in charge.. So, get your facts right, and blame the right people for the failure to prepare us.
Your comment on my belief in God is irrelevant and silly, just showing how desperate you are, as a loser!
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I don't know why I am so surprised at your ignorance of the reality of the situation: perhaps you have been slacking in your googling recently! The real power in the EU is not the Parliament, but the unelected Commission
The commissioners are chosen by the democratically elected governments of the EU much like or government is chosen by the party that we elected - not by us.
where the unctuous Jean-Claude Juncker holds sway, and he dislikes the UK.
Does he? You know him personally do you?
Naïve and uninformed people like you don't realise the power he has over us and our lives.
At least I know how the EU government is chosen, you don't even seem to know those basics. For instance you claimed that the power lies with the EU Commission. That is false, it lies with the European Council which is made up of the democratically elected heads of state.
we didn't realise what we were letting ourselves in for;
Most of us did. You however have just admitted that you don't know what you have let us all in for now.
Your comment on my belief in God is irrelevant and silly, just showing how desperate you are, as a loser!
I'm just pointing out that your beliefs are worth nothing because it seems you'll believe any old tripe. We need more than beliefs, we need a plan and your lot forgot to make one. We are all going to be losers and the one good thing about the vote is that we can blame you. It's your fault.
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The commissioners are chosen by the democratically elected governments of the EU much like or government is chosen by the party that we elected - not by us.
Does he? You know him personally do you?
At least I know how the EU government is chosen, you don't even seem to know those basics. For instance you claimed that the power lies with the EU Commission. That is false, it lies with the European Council which is made up of the democratically elected heads of state.
Most of us did. You however have just admitted that you don't know what you have let us all in for now.
I'm just pointing out that your beliefs are worth nothing because it seems you'll believe any old tripe. We need more than beliefs, we need a plan and your lot forgot to make one. We are all going to be losers and the one good thing about the vote is that we can blame you. It's your fault.
Do you have any idea about politics? Your naivete is staggering. Juncker is the power behind the EU despite what your muddled appreciation may be, and that is common knowledge, except to the politically inept, such as you. Have you never listened to his speeches, read his views, listened to expert analysis of him? Somehow managed to pick up his anti-UK rhetoric? Clearly not; and you don't need to know him personally to gauge all that - another silly comment by you. As to making plans: I repeat: Remainers, Cameron and Osborne, were in charge, were the ones who should have made a plan, they were the Government for goodness' sake! That was a dereliction of duty, and no wonder they skulled off and have been hiding somewhere since. It is Cameron's legacy that he presided over the Referendum, lost it, and left others to pick up the pieces. And as to your absurd and completely irrelevant snipe that I believe any tripe; well, apart from the crass comment that it is, it simply demonstrates the fact that you have no viable argument, that you cannot address the issue maturely and have to resort to insult, and that you are a desperate loser.
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Do you have any idea about politics?
Clearly vastly more than you. You don't even know who runs the EU.
Juncker is the power behind the EU
Rubbish. Juncker has to implement policy in accordance with what the heads of state tell him to do.
Have you never listened to his speeches,
It doesn't matter what he says in his speeches, if he is told by the heads of state to do something (or not do something), he has to do it (or not do it).
There's also the small matter that he was appointed by the heads of state. He is accountable to the democratically elected governments of the EU member states.
Remainers, Cameron and Osborne, were in charge, were the ones who should have made a plan,
Stop blaming others for the mess Brexiters have made.
And as to your absurd and completely irrelevant snipe that I believe any tripe;
You were the one claiming your belief carried some authority. That makes your belief a legitimate target for attack. If you don't like it, you should have backed up your arguments with more than just your belief.
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But you also believe in a God that became his own son ...
And what religion would that be, jeremy?
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And what religion would that be, jeremy?
There's only one religion in which God is his own son. Here's an anagram to help you work it out: Christainity
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There's only one religion in which God is his own son. Here's an anagram to help you work it out: Christainity
Except that God isn't his own son in Christianity - so, try to answer the question again.
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Except that God isn't his own son in Christianity - so, try to answer the question again.
Yes he is. Surely you have heard of the Trinity?
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A quick question, BA. Since a lot of British government is done by unelected civil servants, not MPs, how does our 'democracy' differ from that of the EU?
We don't have a Commission that effectively rules the roost; and now, at least since Cameron's blessed departure, we don't have a Juncker acting as though the EU is his personal property. Here civil servants are just that: they serve the government in power, and provide research, information, etc; but it is the PM and the Cabinet who make decisions.
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We don't have a Commission that effectively rules the roost;
We have a cabinet that performs the same function.
and now, at least since Cameron's blessed departure, we don't have a Juncker acting as though the EU is his personal property.
We have Theresa May. I don't recollect voting for her. Did you?
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Clearly vastly more than you. You don't even know who runs the EU.
Rubbish. Juncker has to implement policy in accordance with what the heads of state tell him to do.
It doesn't matter what he says in his speeches, if he is told by the heads of state to do something (or not do something), he has to do it (or not do it).
There's also the small matter that he was appointed by the heads of state. He is accountable to the democratically elected governments of the EU member states.
Stop blaming others for the mess Brexiters have made.
You were the one claiming your belief carried some authority. That makes your belief a legitimate target for attack. If you don't like it, you should have backed up your arguments with more than just your belief.
Not only are you totally naïve about politics and how they work, you are in denial about the Referendum to an extent that is almost alarming. Here Cameron called the shots, and the Cabinet fell in line, or else. So it is with the appalling Juncker. He calls the shots. Democracy and the EU are contradictions in terms. Really, get wise! Cameron, your hero, got us into the "mess"; left no plan, though he stated before-hand that he would see it through whatever the Referendum result, but lied as usual. It was his duty to provide an exit plan and he failed, and then he cleared off to leave it to others. Half-wits are now busy blaming Brexiters for no plan, but fail to say how they could have developed a plan whilst serving in a Government run by Remainers. And in your case you are trying to evade the points I have just made by bringing in a complete red herring about my religious beliefs - another of your failed obsessions. You really are scraping the barrel, and making yourself look like a prize idiot.
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Not only are you totally naïve about politics and how they work,
Unlike you who doesn't even understand the political structure of the EU.
Cameron, your hero, got us into the "mess";
Actually I think he was a fucking idiot. He gambled away the future of Great Britain for internal party politics.
left no plan
He did have a plan: stay in the EU. It's not his job to think of another one when you reject it.
though he stated before-hand that he would see it through whatever the Referendum result
It seems that you and he were the only people in the country who thought he could keep his job following a positive Brexit vote.
but lied as usual.
The Brexit campaign had a bus with the biggest whopper painted on the outside. Don't talk to me about liars.
And in your case you are trying to evade the points I have just made by bringing in a complete red herring about my religious beliefs - another of your failed obsessions. You really are scraping the barrel, and making yourself look like a prize idiot.
I've already told you once: you invoked your beliefs as an authority for one of your points. That makes them fair game to be shot down.
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Unlike you who doesn't even understand the political structure of the EU.
Actually I think he was a fucking idiot. He gambled away the future of Great Britain for internal party politics.
He did have a plan: stay in the EU. It's not his job to think of another one when you reject it.
It seems that you and he were the only people in the country who thought he could keep his job following a positive Brexit vote.
The Brexit campaign had a bus with the biggest whopper painted on the outside. Don't talk to me about liars.
I've already told you once: you invoked your beliefs as an authority for one of your points. That makes them fair game to be shot down.
I understand perfectly well the structure of the EU, and it's just sad that you try and hide behind that as an argument. The real crux of this discussion is that you simply do not understand the machinations of politics and politicians which was at the heart of the Referendum. And as far as whoppers go, well, according to the Cameron/Osborne loony alliance, Brexit would mean a Third World War, recession, economic collapse, the need for an emergency budget, every family being £4,000 worse off, etc, etc - how's that for lies to begin with! So far, the economy is looking up well. All the Remainers were, and are, a bunch of hysterical scare-mongers. Fortunately, the British public sees through you.
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The real Project Fear was the Brexit campaign's - but I didn't think Trent was pro-Brexit.
The Remainers were project fear!!!
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We have a cabinet that performs the same function.
We have Theresa May. I don't recollect voting for her. Did you?
You are a naïve idiot. We can vote those lot out, we can't vote the commission out if we don't like them, and most are not put in by our government.
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Unlike you who doesn't even understand the political structure of the EU.
Actually I think he was a fucking idiot. He gambled away the future of Great Britain for internal party politics.
He did have a plan: stay in the EU. It's not his job to think of another one when you reject it.
It seems that you and he were the only people in the country who thought he could keep his job following a positive Brexit vote.
The Brexit campaign had a bus with the biggest whopper painted on the outside. Don't talk to me about liars.
I've already told you once: you invoked your beliefs as an authority for one of your points. That makes them fair game to be shot down.
WUM
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Who cares who the leader of UKRAP is? They're all as bonkers as each other.
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Who cares who the leader of UKRAP is? They're all as bonkers as each other.
They may be all as bonkers as each other, but they have shifted the balance of power in a way that has seldom been seen before, with large swathes of what used to be either Tory or Labour strongholds now becoming UKIP ones.
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It would appear that the 'new' leader has resigned after 18 days? The return of Nigel?
http://tinyurl.com/h8ozfjm
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It would appear that the 'new' leader has resigned after 18 days? The return of Nigel?
http://tinyurl.com/h8ozfjm
God NO!
Can't we get that bastard extradited to Brussels?
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He's riding high in the USofA at the moment, helping his friend Donald.
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He's riding high in the USofA at the moment, helping his friend Donald.
Any chance they'll keep him?
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I hope that nasty party disintegrates!
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"UKIP chairman says 'I wouldn’t call it a farce'"
He's might be right; fiasco?, debacle? . . . probably better words.
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The NEW Leader has quit!
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Any chance they'll keep him?
:) We live in hope, LA but expect he'll be back. I read late last night that he said he wouldn't be leader of UKIP again for 10m or similar figure.
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The horrible Farage is back as leader for the time being, now there's a surprise!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37561065
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It would appear that the 'new' leader has resigned after 18 days? The return of Nigel?
http://tinyurl.com/h8ozfjm
She was offered the job of Guest England Manager for November.
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Are you saying she is an absolute gem of a girl?
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Are you saying she is an absolute gem of a girl?
No. I don't know her. In fact I wouldn't have known the ex-leader of UKIP is a woman but for the article on the radio this morning saying she has resigned.
I was drawing comparison with a similar short-term job i.e. manager of the England football team. In fact, the comparisons don'r end there. Both jobs involve similarly poisoned chalices.
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Yes he is. Surely you have heard of the Trinity?
Yes but yours is a bit of a fundy interpretation............................you'll be handling snakes next.
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Sorry Jeremy, I knew what you meant. I was playing on: General English Manager - G E M.
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The Remainers were project fear!!!
In what way, JK. I studied a lot of documents and speeches from both sides and was struck by the way in which the Leave Campaign developed and then fed on the reaction to their claims that have since been shown to be untrue. That seems to be fostering fear to me.
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Yes he is. Surely you have heard of the Trinity?
Big 'G' the late JC and Spooky - 1970's Glam Rock band weren't they?
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http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukips-steven-woolfe-seriously-ill-in-hospital-after-altercation/ar-BBx4g78?ocid=spartandhp
Good grief!
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http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukips-steven-woolfe-seriously-ill-in-hospital-after-altercation/ar-BBx4g78?ocid=spartandhp
Good grief!
I condemn the act of violence that led to this, but I'm sure many of the other MEPs have wanted to punch UKIP MEPs in the face. The very fact that they are still there with their snouts in the EU trough is pretty disgusting.
It's still wrong to resort to physical violence though, no matter how strong the provocation.
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How deeply sad.
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As I understand the news report it was another Kipper that the altercation occurred with.
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And his assailant is apparently called Mike Hookem. Part of me thinks I should find this funny, too silly for words, but I am in the whole 'I am not angry, just disappointed' place. We had an MP shot this year and while you can put that down to a disturbed person, this is, it seems, two elected members of one party having some form of punch up. What are we doing?
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I condemn the act of violence that led to this, but I'm sure many of the other MEPs have wanted to punch UKIP MEPs in the face. The very fact that they are still there with their snouts in the EU trough is pretty disgusting.
It's still wrong to resort to physical violence though, no matter how strong the provocation.
I think it is entirely understandable that people have strong negative feelings against these UKIP idiots who have caused so much damage to both the EU and UK - but getting into a punch-up with them is not the best solution.
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I think it is entirely understandable that people have strong negative feelings against these UKIP idiots who have caused so much damage to both the EU and UK - but getting into a punch-up with them is not the best solution.
Has anyone suggested it is? Nevermind it appears to have been at a UKIP meeting between UKIP MEPs
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http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukips-steven-woolfe-seriously-ill-in-hospital-after-altercation/ar-BBx4g78?ocid=spartandhp
Good grief!
I agree, it is quite shocking. I saw Steven Woolfe on QT recently.
Quite sincerely I hope he recovers but it would be wonderful if he recovered and had a complete change of heart, which does happen. A man like himself, still just under fifty, would be able to pursue a new career. We live in hope. However I wish him a speedy recovery regardless.
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In what way, JK. I studied a lot of documents and speeches from both sides and was struck by the way in which the Leave Campaign developed and then fed on the reaction to their claims that have since been shown to be untrue. That seems to be fostering fear to me.
You seem to imply that the Leave lot had loads of lies. I would say they had very few. Could you give me a list of the ones you reckon were outright lies?
The Remainers had loads of forecasts that were from lah-lah-land. They all came from the elites who are renown for spin and lies, and these bogus forecasts were all politically motivated.
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As I understand the news report it was another Kipper that the altercation occurred with.
I reckon UKIP are ripe for splitting. This is being brewing for years and the sooner the better.
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I agree, it is quite shocking. I saw Steven Woolfe on QT recently.
Quite sincerely I hope he recovers but it would be wonderful if he recovered and had a complete change of heart, which does happen. A man like himself, still just under fifty, would be able to pursue a new career. We live in hope. However I wish him a speedy recovery regardless.
Yes, his new career will be a new political party.
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http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukips-steven-woolfe-seriously-ill-in-hospital-after-altercation/ar-BBx4g78?ocid=spartandhp
Good grief!
This is deplorable.
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Has anyone suggested it is? Nevermind it appears to have been at a UKIP meeting between UKIP MEPs
When I heard the story, I assumed it was between Steven Woolfe and an MEP from a pro EU party.
I think that, now the UKIP raison d'être is gone, we'll see more internal fighting, although, hopefully no more literal fights.
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I think this might be the just the fellow that UKIP are looking for:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37584407
:)
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And his assailant is apparently called Mike Hookem. Part of me thinks I should find this funny, too silly for words, but I am in the whole 'I am not angry, just disappointed' place. We had an MP shot this year and while you can put that down to a disturbed person, this is, it seems, two elected members of one party having some form of punch up. What are we doing?
I feel like that too. On QT last night he was talked about a bit and it appears he is recovering well so that's good. As the fracas was between two UKIP MPs, I couldn't help feeling that the UKIP label of "A party ofoolfe thugs" was appropriate; probably unfair and as far as we knew UKIP MPs haven't publicly fought amongst themselves before.
Stephen Woolfe is a person of mixed race, I only know that because I looked him up on Wiki after seeing him, and finding him slightly interesting in a sinister sort of way, on Question Time a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't help wondering if he had risen to such prominence in the party (he was a Tory before that, iirc), because of that, so accusations of racism could be shown to be unfounded. That's me being cynical. However it is of note that his black African-American grandfather was not an immigrant. He may well have lived here for a while, we don't know much about him and, indeed, it's not relevant - to me and probably some others- but may be significant to some.
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And now Steven Woolfe leaving as UKIP in a 'death spiral'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37682828
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And now Steven Woolfe leaving as UKIP in a 'death spiral'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37682828
I'm not surprised. UKIP are ripe for splitting.
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You seem to imply that the Leave lot had loads of lies. I would say they had very few. Could you give me a list of the ones you reckon were outright lies?
The sums of money that they said would be able to be put into the NHS and other things (figures that were changed within days of the vote: the suggestion that there woul be no problem gaining an agreement with our EU partners 'that were' that was on a par with the pre-vote one. I never said that they had 'lots of lies' - that's a spin of your own; rather I said that the Leave campaign came up with a handful of ideas, and then reacted to the reactions to these creating fear in the populace as a result. The 'lots of' was the number of articles, news reports, referendum leaflets and the like that I read and found the Leave campaign's arguments pretty shallow and vague.
The Remainers had loads of forecasts that were from lah-lah-land. They all came from the elites who are renown for spin and lies, and these bogus forecasts were all politically motivated.
I'm not sure that I'd use the terms "renown(ed) for spin and lies" for groups such as the IMF and the OECD, Jack. Ironically, after a quiet summer, sterling has suffered the drop that was forecast. No doubt it will recover, but whilst the discussions are on-going (and 2 years in the minimum period for this) - and other financial assitance that had been arranged with the EU as far ahead as 2020 is untangled, sterling will remain unsteady.
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You seem to imply that the Leave lot had loads of lies. I would say they had very few. Could you give me a list of the ones you reckon were outright lies?
1. That we 'send' £350m a week to the EU
2. That if we left we could put an extra £350m into the NHS
3. That it is possible to leave the EU, have full control over immigration and remain in the single market.
4. That leaving the EU wouldn't have a detrimental effect on a) the pound, b) UK growth, c) our credit rating etc
5. That Turkey were about to join the EU
6. That we'll be able to sort out preferential trade deals with everyone in no time
etc, etc.
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1. That we 'send' £350m a week to the EU
2. That if we left we could put an extra £350m into the NHS
3. That it is possible to leave the EU, have full control over immigration and remain in the single market.
4. That leaving the EU wouldn't have a detrimental effect on a) the pound, b) UK growth, c) our credit rating etc
5. That Turkey were about to join the EU
6. That we'll be able to sort out preferential trade deals with everyone in no time
etc, etc.
Those seem like pretty big whoppers to me! >:(
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I note from BBC Scotland that Coburn's thinking of putting his name forward. Surely not even UKIP would be daft enough to vote for him?
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I note from BBC Scotland that Coburn's thinking of putting his name forward. Surely not even UKIP would be daft enough to vote for him?
Who knows, we could well end up with a plethora of parties of one member
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Hopefully Ukip will implode & their votes will go back to Lib Dems, or Greens.
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Hopefully Ukip will implode & their votes will go back to Lib Dems, or Greens.
back? I wouldn't have thought that's where their main amount of votes have come from.
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Hopefully Ukip will implode & their votes will go back to Lib Dems, or Greens.
I think that most of UKIP's vote came from uneducated, elderly Conservatives and tribal "working class" Labour voters.
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Hopefully Ukip will implode & their votes will go back to Lib Dems, or Greens.
"back to" ? ? ? ? They never came from them in the first place.
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Hopefully Ukip will implode & their votes will go back to Lib Dems, or Greens.
I think the very last places that UKIP voters would likely have transferred their allegiance from would be either LibDem or Green.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37744003
Farage says he won't give his support to the woman candidate!
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I think the very last places that UKIP voters would likely have transferred their allegiance from would be either LibDem or Green.
UKIP has lost it's raison d'etre. Some of it's less looney supporters will return to the Tories while the less savoury elements will crawl back into the woodwork, only to be seen occasionally in dark corners of pubs making racist remarks.
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UKIP has lost it's raison d'etre. Some of it's less looney supporters will return to the Tories while the less savoury elements will crawl back into the woodwork, only to be seen occasionally in dark corners of pubs making racist remarks.
You could be right, one hopes it will disappear down the sewer from whence it emerged. >:(
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37744003
Farage says he won't give his support to the woman candidate!
Perhaps he thinks she's unsuitable, rather than just her being a woman.
He did support the woman who stepped down.
It doesn't matter who's in charge IMO, because I don't consider voting for them an option.
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Request to moderators:
Perhaps we should consider pinning this thread. The UKIP leadership question seems to come up very frequently.
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Some of it's less looney supporters will return to the Tories ...
In view of the number of previous Labour voters it's attracted, I suspect that some of its less looney supporters will potentially return thence.
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Request to moderators:
Perhaps we should consider pinning this thread. The UKIP leadership question seems to come up very frequently.
That's a good idea, the odds are there'll be another leadership election early next year!!!
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37744003
Farage says he won't give his support to the woman candidate!
It is not because she is a woman, as you seem to be implying, but because they have been not on good terms for awhile now.
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That's a good idea, the odds are there'll be another leadership election early next year!!!
Though by that stage we may have to split the thread for different parties
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Though by that stage we may have to split the thread for different parties
I was only talking about UKIP; unless you were implying that they would have split by then - which is a strong probability.
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I was only talking about UKIP; unless you were implying that they would have split by then - which is a strong probability.
yes, that was my implication
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yes, that was my implication
I predict that UKIp will split into about the same number of parties as it has members now.
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I predict that UKIp will split into about the same number of parties as it has members now.
People's front of the UK etc...
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Perhaps he thinks she's unsuitable, rather than just her being a woman.
He did support the woman who stepped down.
It doesn't matter who's in charge IMO, because I don't consider voting for them an option.
I just stated he wasn't giving his support to the woman candidate, I DIDN'T say it was because she was female!
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And now the old leader has gone from the party entirely
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38057251
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And now the old leader has gone from the party entirely
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38057251
Weird!
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Weird!
Or sensible.
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Or sensible.
No. If she came across as being mentally sure of herself then possibly yes, but she has seemed out of sorts for a while now this just sums up her recent disposition.
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No. If she came across as being mentally sure of herself then possibly yes, but she has seemed out of sorts for a while now this just sums up her recent disposition.
was Stephen Woolfe suffering from this too in your 'expert' opinion?
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was Stephen Woolfe suffering from this too in your 'expert' opinion?
He seemed to be. I think it is all due to the pressure that the issue that was binding the UKIPpers together is fading away. They were seeing the various factions within it coming out in force and seeing that their position/jobs in UKIP slipping away. This would have been obvious to many before this but now the swords are drawn and some have only daggers.
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He seemed to be. I think it is all due to the pressure that the issue that was binding the UKIPpers together is fading away. They were seeing the various factions within it coming out in force and seeing that their position/jobs in UKIP slipping away. This would have been obvious to many before this but now the swords are drawn and some have only daggers.
So surely then the problem is with the party and in that sense it is sensible to get out?
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So surely then the problem is with the party and in that sense it is sensible to get out?
But they fell apart, they didn't keep their composure and integrity. That is what my comment of 'weird' was addressing. If they had been clear headed then they would have seen that they needed to leave and just go. Instead, one became leader! first and the other got into a fight or collapsed from mental fatigue after a confrontation.
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But they fell apart, they didn't keep their composure and integrity. That is what my comment of 'weird' was addressing. If they had been clear headed then they would have seen that they needed to leave and just go. Instead, one became leader! first and the other got into a fight or collapsed from mental fatigue after a confrontation.
But if the party is this dysfunctional that people fall apart then it's the problem. If you are continually trying to avoid daggers, it is sensible to leave.
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And I note that of the 40 different UKIP MEPs since 1999, 13 have either been suspended or resigned.
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But if the party is this dysfunctional that people fall apart then it's the problem. If you are continually trying to avoid daggers, it is sensible to leave.
But they must have known this long before they eventually left, so why did they stay to the point that they engaged in 'weird' mentally dysfunctional activities. It is as if they didn't see the warning signs and this is often due to some mental blockage or blind spot due to a weak or flawed character trait. A kid of fit or neurotic tantrum that are unconsciously motivated.
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But they must have known this long before they eventually left, so why did they stay to the point that they engaged in 'weird' mentally dysfunctional activities. It is as if they didn't see the warning signs and this is often due to some mental blockage or blind spot due to a weak or flawed character trait. A kid of fit or neurotic tantrum that are unconsciously motivated.
It is good to have the 'expert' advice from such a 'experienced' mental health professional on here.
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It is good to have the 'expert' advice from such a 'experienced' mental health professional on here.
Well, trying to explain these things to a layperson isn't easy, who wouldn't know an expert even if they saw one.
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Well, trying to explain these things to a layperson isn't easy, who wouldn't know an expert even if they saw one.
You do know that attempts at patronising are only successful from a position of strength?
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But they must have known this long before they eventually left, so why did they stay to the point that they engaged in 'weird' mentally dysfunctional activities. It is as if they didn't see the warning signs and this is often due to some mental blockage or blind spot due to a weak or flawed character trait. A kid of fit or neurotic tantrum that are unconsciously motivated.
It is far more likely that they felt sufficiently buoyed up to believe they could effectively do the job and then found there was more to it than anticipated. Imagine how demoralising that must be, especially surrounded by 'colleagues' who have even less of a clue, little integrity and give zilch support.
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It is far more likely that they felt sufficiently buoyed up to believe they could effectively do the job and then found there was more to it than anticipated. Imagine how demoralising that must be, especially surrounded by 'colleagues' who have even less of a clue, little integrity and give zilch support.
If we are talking about Diane James, I would suggest that she found out, when she became leader, that the people she had to work with had no intention of respecting her authority as leader and therefore she couldn't do her job. It must have left a very bitter taste in her mouth and leaving the party became inevitable.
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Definitely.
What a shower.
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You do know that attempts at patronising are only successful from a position of strength?
Then I accept my success in this argument!!! ;D
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Then I accept my success in this argument!!! ;D
I believe 1/20 are able to auto fellate. Enjoy the warm salty goodness!
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It is far more likely that they felt sufficiently buoyed up to believe they could effectively do the job and then found there was more to it than anticipated. Imagine how demoralising that must be, especially surrounded by 'colleagues' who have even less of a clue, little integrity and give zilch support.
If they were in a position to run for the leadership and be strong contenders then they would have been at the core of UKIP for some time and would be well aware of the tensions and acrimonious power plays going on inside said party. So for them to be naïve enough to not be able to see this or to put it another way be in a state of denial (which is a form of neurosis) just shows what their psychological state is/was - especially applicable to James, who was leader for 18 days and left UKIP not long afterwards. They both showed signs of shock which is a phenomena of not being inwardly in control of oneself.
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I believe 1/20 are able to auto fellate. Enjoy the warm salty goodness!
Considering the context that is an irrelevant and irrational outburst. But I do wonder why you know that fact. Did you have some need to investigate such matters? ;D
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Considering the context that is an irrelevant and irrational outburst. But I do wonder why you know that fact. Did you have some need to investigate such matters? ;D
Apart from loving the sound of breaking glass, it appeared in the book Boys and Sex by Wardell B Pomeroy given to me by my parents to avoid the 'conversation'. At the time of reading at the age of 10 didn't really understand, so did a bit of further reading. Not surprisingly the number stuck in my mind.
Anyway how's the patting yourself on the back going?
Next link NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsnNHAZ3HWc
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Apart from loving the sound of breaking glass, it appeared in the book Boys and Sex by Wardell B Pomeroy given to me by my parents to avoid the 'conversation'. At the time of reading at the age of 10 didn't really understand, so did a bit of further reading. Not surprisingly the number stuck in my mind.
Anyway how's the patting yourself on the back going?
Did anything stick in your mouth?
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Did anything stick in your mouth?
Soor plooms
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Totally gobsmacking!
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Totally gobsmacking!
I would put that in the Forum's Best bits but outside context it would mean nothing. Have a soor ploom!
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Apart from loving the sound of breaking glass, it appeared in the book Boys and Sex by Wardell B Pomeroy given to me by my parents to avoid the 'conversation'. At the time of reading at the age of 10 didn't really understand, so did a bit of further reading. Not surprisingly the number stuck in my mind.
Anyway how's the patting yourself on the back going?
Next link NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsnNHAZ3HWc
It was my school that told me about the birds and the bees, but in more stark colourful language. Your school wasn't so progressive?, though 10 years of age seemed a little premature for such adult material.
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I would put that in the Forum's Best bits but outside context it would mean nothing. Have a soor ploom!
A rambutan would be more appropriate.
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Heereeerrrrrre's Paul...
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/11/28/the-extreme-right-wing-views-of-new-ukip-leader-paul-nuttall
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He would gave got on well with Hitler! :o
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He would gave got on well with Hitler! :o
That's just pointless hyperbole.
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Heereeerrrrrre's Paul...
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/11/28/the-extreme-right-wing-views-of-new-ukip-leader-paul-nuttall
to be fair, I don't think these are extreme right wing views (though in the main I disagree with them), but it was the best summary of his positions I found.
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He is making a bid for the tribal working class. He has clearly studied the result of the last election ...
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He is making a bid for the tribal working class. He has clearly studied the result of the last election ...
To be fair to him, I don't think this is a triangulation, they appear to be pretty much what he believes.
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His views are pandering to those who are unpleasant bigots.
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His views are pandering to those who are unpleasant bigots.
Well yes and no. I don't think it is useful to brand a whole bunch of voters as unpleasant bigots. I know someone who votes for UKIP who is in many ways the nicest guy you could meet - he votes for them on what he sees happening in his local neighbourhood where a large number of Eastern Europeans have moved in and have disrupted the local community in negative ways. That this is down to the failure of government at various levels leads to dissatisfaction with politics as usual and allows UKIP to gain credibility.
My friend is neither racist nor prejudiced in any other way as far as I can see - he is fed up with a system which appears to him to disregard his and his families well being. I could list the issues that affect him, which in themselves are relatively minor, but it is the build up of resentment that is causing the problem and a lot of mainstream politicians are either unwilling or unable to acknowledge it.
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Why would anyone who isn't prejudiced in some way vote for UKIP?
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Why would anyone who isn't prejudiced in some way vote for UKIP?
For the reasons given above. They see their area decline in all sorts of different ways due to a sudden influx of people from elsewhere.
An example - my friends mother is an amputee and he needs access for his car to get her out and about to Drs, shopping, visiting family - you know ordinary life activities, and he frequently has problems with a white van left parked outside his house which is used to ferry workers to a well known Sports clothing discounter in our area. No matter what he has tried - council, police, putting his own fake bollards up nothing stops this van. Now it is not racist or bigoted to want access in this case, the fact that he has been let down by various areas of civic responsibility makes him listen to people who offer an alternative and he maybe screens out the racist stuff or disregards it in some way. But you have to understand that some people are not served by the current system and they will turn to others who seem to offer solutions. That they don't is kind of beside the point because my friend is already at the end of his tether - so much so that he is thinking of indulging in a bit of petty criminal activity just so that he can ensure that he can get his mother out of the house.
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For the reasons given above. They see their area decline in all sorts of different ways due to a sudden influx of people from elsewhere.
An example - my friends mother is an amputee and he needs access for his car to get her out and about to Drs, shopping, visiting family - you know ordinary life activities, and he frequently has problems with a white van left parked outside his house which is used to ferry workers to a well known Sports clothing discounter in our area. No matter what he has tried - council, police, putting his own fake bollards up nothing stops this van. Now it is not racist or bigoted to want access in this case, the fact that he has been let down by various areas of civic responsibility makes him listen to people who offer an alternative and he maybe screens out the racist stuff or disregards it in some way. But you have to understand that some people are not served by the current system and they will turn to others who seem to offer solutions. That they don't is kind of beside the point because my friend is already at the end of his tether - so much so that he is thinking of indulging in a bit of petty criminal activity just so that he can ensure that he can get his mother out of the house.
Can't your friend apply for a disability parking space to be placed outside his mothers house?
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Can't your friend apply for a disability parking space to be placed outside his mothers house?
Declined as he has a drive. It is the driveway that is blocked frequently. And (as I do go down this road on my way to another friends house) - it is often difficult to find a parking space anywhere on the road.
Anyway we digress, my basic contention, rather as with Mr Trump' supporters, you cannot dismiss a whole swathe of voters as racist or whatever.
It may give certain people a glow of self-righteousness to proclaim their moral superiority but it doesn't help defeat the malign forces at work. In my opinion it helps them rather than suppresses them. Once you've come out and said you are racist it's a sort of full stop. It ends any meaningful discussion which may lead to a person thinking more deeply about the issues. It leads to more of an "OK you think that about me why should I pay any further attention to your comments" reaction.
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I guess UKIP voters don't mind the NHS being dismantled, advocated by the new leader. Ah well, we'll be white, poor and ill.
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Heereeerrrrrre's Paul...
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/11/28/the-extreme-right-wing-views-of-new-ukip-leader-paul-nuttall
It is interesting how the article suggests that he will attract Labour supporters. Certainly here in Wales, it seems to have been the Welsh Labour support who migrated to UKIP in recent elections, as opposed to the Tory support.
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Why would anyone who isn't prejudiced in some way vote for UKIP?
For much the reasons that Trent outlines. Large chunks of the electorate feel that both the Labour and Tory parties have abandoned them (especially true in the South Wales Valleys where staunch Labour supporters are asking when the Labour-led government in Cardiff are actually going to do anything to improve their - often - sorry conditions).
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It is interesting how the article suggests that he will attract Labour supporters. Certainly here in Wales, it seems to have been the Welsh Labour support who migrated to UKIP in recent elections, as opposed to the Tory support.
The article says that us what he is aiming for not that he will actually attract them.
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Trent, I wonder if your friend has actually asked the driver/users of the white van to park somewhere else and given his reasons? It's amazing how effective a simple request can be. The sports clothing workers are human beings too and would probably want to oblige.
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Anyway we digress, my basic contention, rather as with Mr Trump' supporters, you cannot dismiss a whole swathe of voters as racist or whatever.
Actually, you can. You can dismiss them as racist - or more accurately as enabling racism - but that is a strategy that only entrenches their opinions. The ultimate objective is to persuade them to vote for more rational choices and you aren't going to do that by insulting them or trying to shut them up.
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jeremyp: The ultimate objective is to persuade them to vote for more rational choices and you aren't going to do that by insulting them or trying to shut them up.
That is sound.
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Apparently, the latest UKIP numpty in chief is as barking as his predecessors.... (According to the Daily Diana, anyway.....) http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/736427/Paul-Nuttall-UKIP-demands-scottish-parliament-out-house-of-commons-nicola-sturgeon
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Actually, you can. You can dismiss them as racist - or more accurately as enabling racism - but that is a strategy that only entrenches their opinions. The ultimate objective is to persuade them to vote for more rational choices and you aren't going to do that by insulting them or trying to shut them up.
no, you aren't but you are wrong if you think they are all racist, and if you are merely lying to them but think they are racist, it is unlikely to work.
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Apparently, the latest UKIP numpty in chief is as barking as his predecessors.... (According to the Daily Diana, anyway.....) http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/736427/Paul-Nuttall-UKIP-demands-scottish-parliament-out-house-of-commons-nicola-sturgeon
Actually, ignoring the rhetoric of the Express, the idea sounds like a reasonably serious suggestion.
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no, you aren't but you are wrong if you think they are all racist,
That's why I wrote "more accurately, enabling racism".
and if you are merely lying to them but think they are racist, it is unlikely to work.
If somebody is racist, you can either try to shut them down completely or try to persuade them that their views are wrong. I would suggest that, in the run up to Brexit and the US Presidential election, too much of the former was done snd not enough off the latter.
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Actually, ignoring the rhetoric of the Express, the idea sounds like a reasonably serious suggestion.
Nut tall should have the balls to name his party what it is ...the English Independence Party.
All warmed up EVEL served up as innovation.
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Actually, ignoring the rhetoric of the Express, the idea sounds like a reasonably serious suggestion.
Sorry, Jeremyp;
It may well - on the surface - sound like a reasonable suggestion (reasonable? UKIP? er.......)
However the UKIP 'policy' on devolution is even more elusive than the rest of their mouthings.
In the past five years they've changed it so often that even their sole rep in Scotland - the completely pathetic Coburn - is lost.
As late as lAast week he was advocating the dissolution of ALL devolved authorities in the so-called UK, and all power being returned to Westminster, the regions (in which this so-called 'Scot' included Scotland, by the way) would be governed by secretaries of state appointed by Westminster....as it was (supposed) to be before 1999.
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Sorry, Jeremyp;
It may well - on the surface - sound like a reasonable suggestion (reasonable? UKIP? er.......)
However the UKIP 'policy' on devolution is even more elusive than the rest of their mouthings.
In the past five years they've changed it so often that even their sole rep in Scotland - the completely pathetic Coburn - is lost.
As late as lAast week he was advocating the dissolution of ALL devolved authorities in the so-called UK, and all power being returned to Westminster, the regions (in which this so-called 'Scot' included Scotland, by the way) would be governed by secretaries of state appointed by Westminster....as it was (supposed) to be before 1999.
That UKIP are inconsistent on thus doesn't mean that Nuttall's suggestion does not have merits. It would create some consistency at least in approach and gets rids of the HoL.
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Oh, I agree it has some merit, NS. And it may well be UKIP policy for ten minutes - until they change it - again. A fully federal 'UK' is the only real alternative to the present situation, if Westminster wants to avoid the increasing mess in which they find themselves. To ignore this possibility plays into the hands of those advocating the break up of what they/we see as an increasingly moribund union; whether that break up is swift or long and drawn out is the only question.
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Now led by Dick Braine
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Is that a name or a characterisation?
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Is that a name or a characterisation?
Both imo! ;D
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Both imo! ;D
What were his parents thinking?
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What were his parents thinking?
It could be worse - they could have named him 'Lame'.
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What were his parents thinking?
George Osborne obviously wondered that too :-).
I wonder how long he will last.
A lot of UKIP supporters liked and admired of Nigel Farage, I expect they will now defect to the Brexit party.
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George Osborne obviously wondered that too :-).
I wonder how long he will last.
A lot of UKIP supporters liked and admired of Nigel Farage, I expect they will now defect to the Brexit party.
One's brain has to be impaired to like and admire that ghastly man, imo. :o
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It seems to be part of most people's human nature to admire and make icons out of people. I couldn't see myself doing it but when I was young I did idolise some public figures and would have been terribly disappointed to find out negative things about them. My 'idols' were on the left or involved in the Peace Movement or maybe somebody working for the Iona community about which Anchorman has started a thread.
It doesn't last, all people have feet of clay and we really know that.
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I am glad to say I have never had any idols, not even in my youth.
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Dick Braine pulls out
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/30/richard-braine-quits-ukip-leader-after-less-than-three-months?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
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Dick Braine pulls out
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/30/richard-braine-quits-ukip-leader-after-less-than-three-months?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
The sooner that nasty party disappears into the mists of time the better.
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The leaders certainly don't last long in UKIP.
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The sooner that nasty party disappears into the mists of time the better.
Effectively they are just a side show now. The question is what other parties do to attract their voters.
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Dick Braine pulls out
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/30/richard-braine-quits-ukip-leader-after-less-than-three-months?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
Blast.
Just when we were looking forward to not wanting to know him.
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Hopefully, they'll continue the run of risible names by replacing him with Hugh Jarse or R. Sole.