Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: NicholasMarks on September 23, 2016, 12:45:55 PM
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God is a Spirit and all that worship him must do so in spirit and in truth…(John 4:24)
Doesn’t really make too much sense, does it?? Until we realise that Jesus was also a righteous spirit and he certainly wasn’t going to waste his spiritual nature and so we can learn from him how we can retain this spiritual force within ourselves as well.
By upbuilding our spirit via righteousness means that we are obeying Jesus. We are sticking to truth and honesty, respect for others, and not stealing what belongs to our neighbours…then…providing we get it right…we too will enjoy what Jesus enjoyed.
He was adamant…righteous behaviour delivers resurrection ((those that follow me (Jesus) will never die)) and this will lead us to everlasting life. No need for a difficult, hard to understand science…just faith in the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ…even though there must be a science behind his teaching…because that’s how Almighty God’s universe works.
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I'm not even sure what a 'spirit' is
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Shouldn't this be in the faith sharing section?
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I'm not even sure what a 'spirit' is
I can only describe it in the way I understand it and this is yielded from the Holy Bible.
It is the part of us that, though invisible, is a product of the spiritual nature of the universe. I would go as far as to say that every expression is fired by our nervous/spiritual nature and so...as hysterical behaviour proves...we can waste it wildly.
Our inner nervous/spiritual nature must come from somewhere. Some is delivered by chemical interactions but Jesus, who speaks on behalf of Almighty God, tells us that we can earn it by righteous good behaviour.
If we say that it is part of the nervous/electric behaviour of the replicating living cell then we can see that it is a spiritual representation of our own being and...it seems...if we talk to Jesus Christ's word...it can be the force behind resurrection, behind everlasting life...and the force behind genetic repair in this life. We just have to believe those who love us.
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God is a Spirit and all that worship him must do so in spirit and in truth…(John 4:24)
Doesn’t really make too much sense, does it?? Until we realise that Jesus was also a righteous spirit and he certainly wasn’t going to waste his spiritual nature and so we can learn from him how we can retain this spiritual force within ourselves as well.
By upbuilding our spirit via righteousness means that we are obeying Jesus. We are sticking to truth and honesty, respect for others, and not stealing what belongs to our neighbours…then…providing we get it right…we too will enjoy what Jesus enjoyed.
He was adamant…righteous behaviour delivers resurrection ((those that follow me (Jesus) will never die)) and this will lead us to everlasting life. No need for a difficult, hard to understand science…just faith in the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ…even though there must be a science behind his teaching…because that’s how Almighty God’s universe works.
Still doesn't make much sense.
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Still doesn't make much sense.
That's because you don't read your Holy Bible, Maeght. In there, Jesus tells us of the importance of our spirit to us by showing us the importance of his spirit to him.
Of course it's of no importance what-so-ever if our greatest ambition is just swinging around the universe in a fiery lake of sulphur forever more...but that is a decision only you can make.
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That's because you don't read your Holy Bible, Maeght.
Its not mine. And no I don't as it makes no sense to me. An interesting social history document maybe but otherwise of no interest to me.
In there, Jesus tells us of the importance of our spirit to us by showing us the importance of his spirit to him.
That's nice.
Of course it's of no importance what-so-ever if our greatest ambition is just swinging around the universe in a fiery lake of sulphur forever more...but that is a decision only you can make.
A choice regarding something in which I have no belief .... not really a choice of course.
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Sparky,
That's because you don't read your Holy Bible, Maeght. In there, Jesus tells us of the importance of our spirit to us by showing us the importance of his spirit to him.
Of course it's of no importance what-so-ever if our greatest ambition is just swinging around the universe in a fiery lake of sulphur forever more...but that is a decision only you can make.
Thank you for sharing your personal faith about these claims.
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Shouldn't this be in the faith sharing section?
Surely would fit better in science topic?
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NS,
Surely would fit better in science topic?
Very droll I'm sure. I'm surprised Sparky doesn't insist on it.
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Surely would fit better in science topic?
Everything I write revolves around Jesus Christ, Nearly Sane...but scientists don't like to be reminded of him.
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Sparky,
Everything I write revolves around Jesus Christ, Nearly Sane...but scientists don't like to be reminded of him.
Provided no-one corrupts the term "science" by claiming that Bible stories are scientific I think you'll find that for the most part "scientists" are indifferent to being "reminded of him".
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God is a Spirit and all that worship him must do so in spirit and in truth…(John 4:24)
Doesn’t really make too much sense, does it??
Except that John 4:24 doesn't say that God is 'a Spirit', Sparks. Rather it says 'πνεῦμα ὁ θεός' - 'God is Spirit'. In other words, John is describing the nature of God, not his identity.
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Except that John 4:24 doesn't say that God is 'a Spirit', Sparks. Rather it says 'πνεῦμα ὁ θεός' - 'God is Spirit'. In other words, John is describing the nature of God, not his identity.
Without checking your accuracy Hope, and off the top of my head, I would say that what you say and what I say are both the same thing. You see...if you allow this thread to develop you will find that Almighty God is the omnipotent, spiritual being of all the energy that created the universe. His mighty stance is as the living voice of all that force whilst also being made in our image.
So...we have good reason to follow his and Jesus' accurate word rather than pick up on minor detail...Now...I read that in the Holy Bible somewhere.
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Sparky,
Without checking your accuracy Hope, and off the top of my head, I would say that what you say and what I say are both the same thing. You see...if you allow this thread to develop you will find that Almighty God is the omnipotent, spiritual being of all the energy that created the universe. His mighty stance is as the living voice of all that force whilst also being made in our image.
No, what he'll find is that you will assert all these things to be the case - a very different matter.
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Without checking your accuracy Hope, and off the top of my head, I would say that what you say and what I say are both the same thing.
If I say that 'you are human', Nick, I am saying something different to if I said 'You are a human'. There is no indefinite article present in the Greek.
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Hope,
If I say that 'you are human', Nick, I am saying something different to if I said 'You are a human'. There is no indefinite article present in the Greek.
I went to a Greek restaurant the other night for dinner. The waiter was only four feet six tall so he wore built up shoes. The food was terrible.
Still I should have known better I guess from the old saying...
..."Beware of Greeks wearing lifts."
I'll get me jacket.
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If I say that 'you are human', Nick, I am saying something different to if I said 'You are a human'. There is no indefinite article present in the Greek.
I think you missed the point of my response to yours Hope. If you read the Holy Bible with an honest and open mind...just as it is intended to be read, you get a feel for the message that you are reading, and all are sponsored by righteousness.
God is a Spirit and is Spirit. He is a spirit because he is a solid spiritual being as Jesus became after he ascended and he is also a living limb of the energy that makes stars and atoms. He is this omnipotent being because he broke the hidden code of nature and started a new beginning...In other words he is the alpha and the omega...the beginning and the end...and it is his righteous word (remember...in the beginning was the word) that is important not an intellectual discussion over grammar.
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Sparky,
Provided no-one corrupts the term "science" by claiming that Bible stories are scientific I think you'll find that for the most part "scientists" are indifferent to being "reminded of him".
But then scientists can be indifferent to things can't they Bluebottle.
Robert Oppenheimer was pretty indifferent to the disintegration of thousands and Edvard Teller similarly was indifferent to the destructive power of the H Bomb.
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Vlad,
But then scientists can be indifferent to things can't they Bluebottle.
Robert Oppenheimer was pretty indifferent to the disintegration of thousands and Edvard Teller similarly was indifferent to the destructive power of the H Bomb.
Citations?
Relevance?
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Sparky,
Provided no-one corrupts the term "science" by claiming that Bible stories are scientific I think you'll find that for the most part "scientists" are indifferent to being "reminded of him".
That's not the impression Dawkin, offers, or, indeed, those that follow him. They want to smash the word of righteousness out of existence...but they can't get round one single simple scientific fact...a bit like Wormwood...The evidence is becoming more and more obvious every day...That the universe is made from an invisible, indestructible, superabundant, dynamic energy that has always been and always will be.
All science stems from it but only Almighty God, and his son Jesus Christ, offer us any explanation about it.
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I think you missed the point of my response to yours Hope. If you read the Holy Bible with an honest and open mind...just as it is intended to be read, you get a feel for the message that you are reading, and all are sponsored by righteousness.
Whilst I'd put it all in rather plainer English, Nick, I have to agree with you to a large part. However, because I read the material in the way you outline, I find it necessary to question your rather tortuous, perhaps even tortured reading of it.
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Whilst I'd put it all in rather plainer English, Nick, I have to agree with you to a large part. However, because I read the material in the way you outline, I find it necessary to question your rather tortuous, perhaps even tortured reading of it.
It's all leading to the simple single scientific point that Almighty God is the highest scientist this universe has ever seen or will ever see again...and with his apprentice, Jesus Christ, we have a formidable team who can do everything they say they can do...including, judge everyone for their sins...living or dead...or repentant...The choice is ours.
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God is a Spirit and all that worship him must do so in spirit and in truth…(John 4:24)
Doesn’t really make too much sense, does it?? Until we realise that Jesus was also a righteous spirit and he certainly wasn’t going to waste his spiritual nature and so we can learn from him how we can retain this spiritual force within ourselves as well.
By upbuilding our spirit via righteousness means that we are obeying Jesus. We are sticking to truth and honesty, respect for others, and not stealing what belongs to our neighbours…then…providing we get it right…we too will enjoy what Jesus enjoyed.
He was adamant…righteous behaviour delivers resurrection ((those that follow me (Jesus) will never die)) and this will lead us to everlasting life. No need for a difficult, hard to understand science…just faith in the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ…even though there must be a science behind his teaching…because that’s how Almighty God’s universe works.
God is a Spirit and all that worship him must do so in spirit and in truth…(John 4:24)
Makes perfect sense.
I baptise with water but he comes after me, is greater than I, and he shall baptise with the Holy Spirit.
The words in action:-
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
It is in believing the truth about Jesus Christ that people receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So those who believe the truth and are baptised in the Spirit worship in truth and Spirit.
King James Version
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The only way to live in Spirit and Truth is through Christ.
John 16:13. so worshipping in Spirit and Truth comes through the acceptance of Christ and the baptism of the Spirit.
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God is a Spirit and all that worship him must do so in spirit and in truth…(John 4:24)
Makes perfect sense.
I baptise with water but he comes after me, is greater than I, and he shall baptise with the Holy Spirit.
The words in action:-
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
It is in believing the truth about Jesus Christ that people receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So those who believe the truth and are baptised in the Spirit worship in truth and Spirit.
King James Version
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The only way to live in Spirit and Truth is through Christ.
John 16:13. so worshipping in Spirit and Truth comes through the acceptance of Christ and the baptism of the Spirit.
A heart warming and refreshing change from my normal respondee. Thanks for that Sassy.
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If I say that 'you are human', Nick, I am saying something different to if I said 'You are a human'. There is no indefinite article present in the Greek.
No indefinite article in koine Greek at all. It can be supplied in translation as deemed appropriate - streuth! Sparky could be right for once!
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I can only describe it in the way I understand it and this is yielded from the Holy Bible.
It is the part of us that, though invisible, is a product of the spiritual nature of the universe. I would go as far as to say that every expression is fired by our nervous/spiritual nature and so...as hysterical behaviour proves...we can waste it wildly.
Our inner nervous/spiritual nature must come from somewhere. Some is delivered by chemical interactions but Jesus, who speaks on behalf of Almighty God, tells us that we can earn it by righteous good behaviour.
If we say that it is part of the nervous/electric behaviour of the replicating living cell then we can see that it is a spiritual representation of our own being and...it seems...if we talk to Jesus Christ's word...it can be the force behind resurrection, behind everlasting life...and the force behind genetic repair in this life. We just have to believe those who love us.
Time for this again................
To me, "God" or indeed, gods, are religious concepts used to try and explain or account for imagined qualities and substances that cannot be identified in our world any more than leprechauns.
I see it as a category where the whole idea of the supernatural belongs.
Contrast that with the natural, which I see as covering everything that exists, including what we have yet to discover.
The term "supernatural" gives people a green light to not only make up whatever beings they want but also to endow these beings with self-contradictory and magical abilities. I see it all the time with believers when they refer to their particular choice of deity as being uncreated and somehow living outside of and unaffected by the passage of time. Yet their god still thinks and acts inside and outside of our natural realm.
It's funny but it's often the case that once believers have given their construct a free pass by placing it in the envisioned supernatural realm, they then become quite rigorous about what must be true in the natural world - the only world we know.
From a point of reason, the whole thing comes over to me as a logical nightmare, excused by the one word - "supernatural". It's a fallacy of special pleading whereby whatever the believer places in this supernatural realm gets excused from the scepticism and scrutiny.
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Time for this again................
To me, "God" or indeed, gods, are religious concepts used to try and explain or account for imagined qualities and substances that cannot be identified in our world any more than leprechauns.
I see it as a category where the whole idea of the supernatural belongs.
Contrast that with the natural, which I see as covering everything that exists, including what we have yet to discover.
The term "supernatural" gives people a green light to not only make up whatever beings they want but also to endow these beings with self-contradictory and magical abilities. I see it all the time with believers when they refer to their particular choice of deity as being uncreated and somehow living outside of and unaffected by the passage of time. Yet their god still thinks and acts inside and outside of our natural realm.
It's funny but it's often the case that once believers have given their construct a free pass by placing it in the envisioned supernatural realm, they then become quite rigorous about what must be true in the natural world - the only world we know.
From a point of reason, the whole thing comes over to me as a logical nightmare, excused by the one word - "supernatural". It's a fallacy of special pleading whereby whatever the believer places in this supernatural realm gets excused from the scepticism and scrutiny.
Religion to me Khatru is a general term to describe the antics of pagan priests who saw the benifit of harnessing the minds of many people and without offering them anything at all would utilise the masses by their best endevours and labour to build a utopia for their rulers...who themselves were false but separate part of that Pagan hierarchy.
The same pattern has existed ever since...but I'm afraid we are getting wise to it. It is all done by brain-washing so it is quite refreshing to come up with a teaching that lifts us out of brain-washing and this just happens to be the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ who put a halt to all the savagery of all the others by becoming the last human sacrifice which had been the main feature of many of the other iniquitous religions.
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Religion to me Khatru is a general term to describe the antics of pagan priests who saw the benifit of harnessing the minds of many people and without offering them anything at all would utilise the masses by their best endevours and labour to build a utopia for their rulers...who themselves were false but separate part of that Pagan hierarchy.
The same pattern has existed ever since...but I'm afraid we are getting wise to it. It is all done by brain-washing so it is quite refreshing to come up with a teaching that lifts us out of brain-washing and this just happens to be the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ who put a halt to all the savagery of all the others by becoming the last human sacrifice which had been the main feature of many of the other iniquitous religions.
Except that we're not talking about religion.
We're talking about how you place your god construct outside of our reality and give it free pass that exempts it from the laws of nature while at the same time you are exactingly rigorous about what must be true in our reality.
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Except that we're not talking about religion.
We're talking about how you place your god construct outside of our reality and give it free pass that exempts it from the laws of nature while at the same time you are exactingly rigorous about what must be true in our reality.
I'm under the impression that you brought in all these other religions to support your views, Khatru. I simply pointed out that from the year dot people have worked the scam that getting the multitude to come together and work for nothing requires a little deviousness by getting them to support a god...a religion. I then tried to show you that the Holy Bible is a little different from all the others. Jesus Christ taught something quite special...it certainly appealed to those living under oppression around him...this is because it lifts us out of oppression even when we are living in the midst of it.
I have gone to great lengths here to show there s a science behind his teaching all hinging on the fact that God is a Spirit the owner and chief scientist over all the dynamic energy that created the universe and all ts scientific laws.
I've brought it to atheists first because they need it most.
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I've brought it to atheists first because they need it most.
What if we don't want it and don't think we need it?
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What if we don't want it and don't think we need it?
That's ok...your future is recorded in the Holy Bible...I wont spell it out again other than to say that it all revolves around
Wormwood which appears to be looming large as we speak.
Why you should prefer to reject a Biblical science is beyond me. Jesus Christ lived according to that righteous science and rejecting his teaching is not going to help anyone...not before Wormwood and certainly not afterwards.
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Why you should prefer to reject a Biblical science is beyond me.
I don't see the Bible as science, Nick - just as a collection of ancient middle-eastern religious superstitions with a smattering of folk tales mixed in with some possibly imprecise history. Its significance relates mainly to its socio-political associations over the centuries in the West, though this is declining of late.
I don't even see it as significant in moral terms, since its simplistic homilies are lightweight compared with the work of various moral philosophers, some of whom predate Christianity by centuries.
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I don't see the Bible as science, Nick - just as a collection of ancient middle-eastern religious superstitions with a smattering of folk tales mixed in with some possibly imprecise history. Its significance relates mainly to its socio-political associations over the centuries in the West, though this is declining of late.
I don't even see it as significant in moral terms, since its simplistic homilies are lightweight compared with the work of various moral philosophers, some of whom predate Christianity by centuries.
Well, Gordon, that settles it. 2,000 years of study and analysis; billions of people adhering to it; the most amazing story in history, all dismissed in a paragraph!
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Well, Gordon, that settles it. 2,000 years of study and analysis; billions of people adhering to it; the most amazing story in history, all dismissed in a paragraph!
Yep - Christianity is over-rated, and only 'amazing' to its fans (btw your argument involves an ad populum).
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I don't see the Bible as science, Nick - just as a collection of ancient middle-eastern religious superstitions with a smattering of folk tales mixed in with some possibly imprecise history. Its significance relates mainly to its socio-political associations over the centuries in the West, though this is declining of late.
I don't even see it as significant in moral terms, since its simplistic homilies are lightweight compared with the work of various moral philosophers, some of whom predate Christianity by centuries.
That's because you don't read the Holy Bible and certainly don't try to follow its teaching, Gordon...if you did you would wonder what keeps bolstering your strength, what keeps making you look and think outside of the box...why can you see problems looming that others are oblivious to until they happen...then it occurs to you that righteousness is a repairing science. Then you begin to realise that Jesus is teaching us something that is profound and defys or rather, passes all understanding. On analysis you find that God's electric force is all around us all the time and that we are invited to be partakers of that force...but only if we follow Jesus. As we get better at it more and more knowledge is added until we catch up with modern science and then begin to overtake it...all because we believe implicitly in Jesus Christ. It's sad that others can't find faith in his teaching, but we can only tell them...and let Wormwood do the rest.
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That's because you don't read the Holy Bible and certainly don't try to follow its teaching, Gordon
I don't read it much: just for reference purposes in relation to what people say here, and I don't think it 'teaches' anything notable since; a) the divine stuff is indistinguishable from fiction and, b) in terms of moral philosophy there are better options.
...if you did you would wonder what keeps bolstering your strength, what keeps making you look and think outside of the box...why can you see problems looming that others are oblivious to until they happen
I'm getting older, Nick, so strength is slowly ebbing, my ability to think (such as it is) is just my biology doing what is does and beyond lucky guesses or logical conclusions I'm just as surprised by events as anyone else.
then it occurs to you that righteousness is a repairing science.
It doesn't.
Then you begin to realise that Jesus is teaching us something that is profound and defys or rather, passes all understanding. On analysis you find that God's electric force is all around us all the time and that we are invited to be partakers of that force...but only if we follow Jesus. As we get better at it more and more knowledge is added until we catch up with modern science and then begin to overtake it...all because we believe implicitly in Jesus Christ.
I don't see this, Nick: not at all - I suspect you are reading more into Christianity than is there.
It's sad that others can't find faith in his teaching, but we can only tell them...and let Wormwood do the rest.
You can try, Nick - and I know you mean well.
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I don't read it much: just for reference purposes in relation to what people say here, and I don't think it 'teaches' anything notable since; a) the divine stuff is indistinguishable from fiction and, b) in terms of moral philosophy there are better options.
I'm getting older, Nick, so strength is slowly ebbing, my ability to think (such as it is) is just my biology doing what is does and beyond lucky guesses or logical conclusions I'm just as surprised by events as anyone else.
It doesn't.
I don't see this, Nick: not at all - I suspect you are reading more into Christianity than is there.
You can try, Nick - and I know you mean well.
Your first paragraph lets you down Gordon...you don't see anything distinguishable from fiction!!
Many people of the highest integrity tell you a man was crucified then resurrected and you can dismiss ths as indistinguishable from fiction??
I could go into many lines of truth here but I fear they would just be dismissed...so why bother?
I would like to say though that while science is struggling to answer fundamental questions about the universe the clock is ticking. Already we are seeing the strangest things in our skies and there are recurring messsages and reports about ET presence worldwide..This should all tell you that something big is going down soon...but I only have one preparation technique for whatever it is...follow Jesus Christ accurately.
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I'm not even sure what a 'spirit' is
Class of alcoholic beverage.
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and reports about ET presence worldwide..
And do you believe that there is actual ET presence on this planet?
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And do you believe that there is actual ET presence on this planet?
Like the approach of Wormwood and like the mass of evidence in the Holy Bible about Jesus Christ...plus the unification of the fundamental universal field forces outlined on here in my thread about the electric/spiritual universe of Jesus Christ..not forgetting actual witness reports...I think there is a strong possibility that there is something in it.
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Yep - Christianity is over-rated, and only 'amazing' to its fans (btw your argument involves an ad populum).
In what sense is it over-rated?
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All...
God is a Spirit and if we read all the clues about his omnipotent nature we find out so much about the universe.
First clue...he sent Jesus Christ to explain the fundamentals about his 'living water' and this is an amazing proof of how this force can be invited into our own being which can offer us what it offered him...resurrection.
Second clue...That 'God's living water' is all around us all the time. We can't see it or without special consideration even know it's there but it is...and the clues say it it is the only true repairing force in existence.
Clue three...God is made from it, and thereby reaches into every scientific behaviour pattern because this material is at the route of all scientific behaviour.
Clue four...Only a select few even bother with his teaching so that only a select few can benefit from that teaching...unless we seriously take on board the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ...but with all this persuasion don't expect to be a leader in this truth...we will be lucky to hang on by our finger-tips.
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In what sense is it over-rated?
In several senses: that its claims of supernatural divinity are in any sense superior to other religious claims of supernatural divinity, that what it is claimed the Bible 'teaches' regarding morality is superior to other approaches to moral philosophy, and that to date I've yet to see any arguments in support of the divine claims of Christianity that aren't either incoherent or in some way fallacious.
I accept that many Christians regard their religion as personally significant and respect their right to do so provided that they remember that many of the rest of us (including theists of a different stripe) live our lives without involving Christianity, and some of us without reference to any form of theism.
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In several senses: that its claims of supernatural divinity are in any sense superior to other religious claims of supernatural divinity, that what it is claimed the Bible 'teaches' regarding morality is superior to other approaches to moral philosophy, and that to date I've yet to see any arguments in support of the divine claims of Christianity that aren't either incoherent or in some way fallacious.
I accept that many Christians regard their religion as personally significant and respect their right to do so provided that they remember that many of the rest of us (including theists of a different stripe) live our lives without involving Christianity, and some of us without reference to any form of theism.
I think I am getting your message Gordon...You mean like Jesus saying take all your problems to Almighty God and discuss them with him in prayer...can be likened to the false indoctrination by the Catholics in confession which...it seems...is at the root of modern day psycho-analysis...hmmmm...give me Jesus' way...any day...and the scientific evidence shows...it works...especially as there is a wonderful book of righteous knowledge to bounce God's principles off.
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I think I am getting your message Gordon...You mean like Jesus saying take all your problems to Almighty God and discuss them with him in prayer...can be likened to the false indoctrination by the Catholics in confession which...it seems...is at the root of modern day psycho-analysis...hmmmm...give me Jesus' way...any day...and the scientific evidence shows...it works...especially as there is a wonderful book of righteous knowledge to bounce God's principles off.
IIRC the scientific evidence gathered to date does not support the notion of efficacy of prayer, at least not beyond that which would be expected through a placebo effect. This is using the term scientific evidence in the proper, truthful sense.
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I think I am getting your message Gordon...You mean like Jesus saying take all your problems to Almighty God and discuss them with him in prayer...can be likened to the false indoctrination by the Catholics in confession which...it seems...is at the root of modern day psycho-analysis...hmmmm...give me Jesus' way...any day...and the scientific evidence shows...it works...especially as there is a wonderful book of righteous knowledge to bounce God's principles off.
er no: I'm simply saying it is over-rated by its followers, and that as things stand the arguments in support of Christianity to date are either incoherent or fallacious.
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er no: I'm simply saying it is over-rated by its followers, and that as things stand the arguments in support of Christianity to date are either incoherent or fallacious.
I will have to look up 'fallacious' Gordon...but the evidence is overwhelming...through Jesus Christ millions have had access to Almighty God's method of psycho-analysis, for 2000 years plus...this is perhaps why they are prepared to die for him. We get a full, if simple working knowledge of the mechanics of the universe which say resurrection is possible...and of course we are forewarned of God's Judgment and given...just...adequate time to prepare, as long as we can grasp the rudiments of Jesus Christ's teaching.
No contest between Jesus Christ and all the other combined teachings which really amount to atheism...another religious tentacle of the unbelievers...who apparently can't even understand their own science never mind the simplicity of Jesus Christ's wonderful teaching.
We all have an instinct for spiritual knowledge...that is why there are so many spiritual scammers...but Jesus Christ is not one of them.
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In several senses: that its claims of supernatural divinity are in any sense superior to other religious claims of supernatural divinity, that what it is claimed the Bible 'teaches' regarding morality is superior to other approaches to moral philosophy, and that to date I've yet to see any arguments in support of the divine claims of Christianity that aren't either incoherent or in some way fallacious.
I accept that many Christians regard their religion as personally significant and respect their right to do so provided that they remember that many of the rest of us (including theists of a different stripe) live our lives without involving Christianity, and some of us without reference to any form of theism.
Just one comment, Gordon: you say, "many of the rest of us live our lives without involving Christianity." An odd comment, since you involve Christianity in your life every day of your life, as exemplified by your daily input here!
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I will have to look up 'fallacious' Gordon...but the evidence is overwhelming...through Jesus Christ millions have had access to Almighty God's method of psycho-analysis, for 2000 years plus...this is perhaps why they are prepared to die for him. We get a full, if simple working knowledge of the mechanics of the universe which say resurrection is possible...and of course we are forewarned of God's Judgment and given...just...adequate time to prepare, as long as we can grasp the rudiments of Jesus Christ's teaching.
I don't know about 'overwhelming'. If there was overwhelming evidence in favour then we would already be teaching it as fact in schools for instance. Religions by and large aren't based on evidence at all - that would be science. Religions are more based on faith, a different matter altogether.
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Sparky,
I will have to look up 'fallacious' Gordon...
That would be a very good idea.
I'll be interested to see whether you incorporate what you find out into your approach to posting here.
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I don't know about 'overwhelming'. If there was overwhelming evidence in favour then we would already be teaching it as fact in schools for instance. Religions by and large aren't based on evidence at all - that would be science. Religions are more based on faith, a different matter altogether.
That is true with most religions torri...some are copies of other religions but with alterations to suit the false prophets who teach them. Really...it's a nice little earner if you can get people to sign up for your brand of religion...this is where brain-washing comes into the equation. Even thousands of years ago Egyptian leaders were administering their own brain-washing and just look at their achievements.But what we are discussing here is a teaching that pulls people out of brain-washing and in doing so proves that it is brain-washing causing all our health problems.
Nowadays we are in a free-for-all in brain-washing...lots and lots of it through the tele...but many other irresponsible routes.
Almighty God isn't going to argue with anyone. He has told us that a great catastrophe will hit us and this will serve as a refining tool for those who show initiative in reaching out for the repair of his world and those that can't be bothered.
I know which side I choose.
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Sparky,
That would be a very good idea.
I'll be interested to see whether you incorporate what you find out into your approach to posting here.
I've looked it up and realise that it is something to do with circular arguments of the nature I witness here bluehillside, often.
There is no truth in the opposing discussion point just belief...I am sure that you will understand that I take care to substantiate most of what I say using both the Holy Bible and modern science...its just that some of you have closed your minds on both counts...but are not hesitant in the least to use dawkinism to bolster your own fallacious remarks.
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Just one comment, Gordon: you say, "many of the rest of us live our lives without involving Christianity." An odd comment, since you involve Christianity in your life every day of your life, as exemplified by your daily input here!
The difference is though is I treat Christianity as a spectator sport without having any desire to join in personally, whilst being perplexed at why anyone would bother to take it seriously: rather like cricket I suppose.
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.but the evidence is overwhelming...through Jesus Christ millions have had access to Almighty God's method of psycho-analysis, for 2000 years plus...this is perhaps why they are prepared to die for him.
The evidence is indeed overwhelming. The perfect book which none can surpass according to Islam, the Quran
Through the prophet Muhammad pbuh millions have had access to Allah's plans for humanity.....this is perhaps why they are prepared to die for him as can be witnessed a regular basis in recent years.
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I will have to look up 'fallacious' Gordon..
Hey Nick, whilst you are at it, would you mind awfully also looking up
Soon
Now
Nearly
Close
Imminant
Do let us know once you have done that, then the next time you post using those words we will all know that you understand their meaning.
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Moderator This topic has had a number of posts removed due to a derail arising from harassment of a poster.
This post will be removed in due course
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Sparky,
I've looked it up and realise that it is something to do with circular arguments of the nature I witness here bluehillside, often.
Oh what a shame - if you had looked it up properly you'd have seen that there are lots of examples of fallacious reasoning, many of which you use here. Circular reasoning is one such, though you'd need to understand what that term means to realise that I don't do it whereas you do - a lot. Look, I'll show you: "God is real because an inerrant book says so; the book is inerrant because god made it that way". It's essentially all you bring to the table, and it's completely circular.
There is no truth in the opposing discussion point just belief...I am sure that you will understand that I take care to substantiate most of what I say using both the Holy Bible and modern science.
No, you either ignore or fundamentally misrepresent what science actually says. Moreover, you cannot "substantiate" something by quoting from the bible without first making a case for why it's correct (and no - "because God made it that way" doesn't work. See above for why not.)
...its just that some of you have closed your minds on both counts...
No, some of us have open minds regarding the findings of science. What we're "closed" to though is your habit of just making things up and claiming them to be "scientific" when they're no such thing. Our minds must be closed too to just accepting whatever the bible happens to say until and unless you finally manage at least to attempt an argument for why you think its claims should be taken seriously.
...but are not hesitant in the least to use dawkinism...
There's no such thing. Please stop lying.
... to bolster your own fallacious remarks.
I'm glad you've found a new word to use. Really, I am. Now though you have to find out what it means. If the you think the arguments used against your claims are fallacious, then you need to explain why you think that. That's why when your posts consist almost entirely of fallacious reasoning some of us take the time to explain those fallacies to you. That you just ignore the explanations and carry on with the fallacies is another matter, but at least some of us try.
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Nicholas Marks in exchange with Bluehillside
Nicholas...but are not hesitant in the least to use dawkinism...
Blue...There's no such thing. Please stop lying.
Vlad...Isn't it a kind of positivism in corduroy trousers?
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Vlad,
Nicholas Marks in exchange with Bluehillside
Nicholas...but are not hesitant in the least to use dawkinism...
Blue...There's no such thing. Please stop lying.
Vlad...Isn't it a kind of positivism in corduroy trousers?
No. It's just a fact.
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Sparky,
Oh what a shame - if you had looked it up properly you'd have seen that there are lots of examples of fallacious reasoning, many of which you use here. Circular reasoning is one such, though you'd need to understand what that term means to realise that I don't do it whereas you do - a lot. Look, I'll show you: "God is real because an inerrant book says so; the book is inerrant because god made it that way". It's essentially all you bring to the table, and it's completely circular.
No, you either ignore or fundamentally misrepresent what science actually says. Moreover, you cannot "substantiate" something by quoting from the bible without first making a case for why it's correct (and no - "because God made it that way" doesn't work. See above for why not.)
No, some of us have open minds regarding the findings of science. What we're "closed" to though is your habit of just making things up and claiming them to be "scientific" when they're no such thing. Our minds must be closed too to just accepting whatever the bible happens to say until and unless you finally manage at least to attempt an argument for why you think its claims should be taken seriously.
There's no such thing. Please stop lying.
I'm glad you've found a new word to use. Really, I am. Now though you have to find out what it means. If the you think the arguments used against your claims are fallacious, then you need to explain why you think that. That's why when your posts consist almost entirely of fallacious reasoning some of us take the time to explain those fallacies to you. That you just ignore the explanations and carry on with the fallacies is another matter, but at least some of us try.
dawkinism...
You know exactly what I mean bluehillside when I use it don't you??...many words come into common use this way so you will just have to accept it means exactly what it implies.
Just to remind you...it is Dicky Dawkin's view that Christianity should be put out of existence. He demands that science has made it obsolete, (my words), He has a better idea...sell as many books as possible...build up a faith surrounding his beliefs and to hell with the more gentle, kindlier, loving, considerate people that Jesus Christ's teaching encourages, (my words).
Now...we have a problem here...if the universe is indeed the product of universal, electric laws, the living-cell is also part of those laws and the many questions that have no answers in biology might just have solid reasoning if we consider those laws accurately. This will of course turn all science on its head because it is looking for nuclear particles when they should be looking for an invisible electric plasma...similar to the stuff defined in the Holy Bible.
Still, there is a lot of mileage in sifting, analyzing,and naming nuclear shrapnel...its just that it will all soon end when they realise they are looking in the wrong direction.
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Sparky,
dawkinism...
You know exactly what I mean bluehillside when I use it don't you??...many words come into common use this way so you will just have to accept it means exactly what it implies.
If you want to invent neologisms of your own then it's for you to tell us what you think they imply.
Just to remind you...it is Dicky Dawkin's view that Christianity should be put out of existence.
It's Richard Dawkins, and just to remind you he actually says precisely the opposite of that. Specifically, he says he wouldn't be without it because of its cultural importance to him
He demands that science has made it obsolete, (my words),...
No he doesn't. What he actually says - rightly as it happens - is that science demonstrably comes up with better answers to scientific questions than does religion.
He has a better idea...sell as many books as possible...build up a faith surrounding his beliefs and to hell with the more gentle, kindlier, loving, considerate people that Jesus Christ's teaching encourages, (my words).
Your words and entirely your invention too. He neither says nor implies any such thing.
Now...we have a problem here...
You have - it's called lying.
...if the universe is indeed the product of universal, electric laws, the living-cell is also part of those laws and the many questions that have no answers in biology might just have solid reasoning if we consider those laws accurately.
It isn't. The electromagnetic force is just one of the four fundamental universal forces. "Living cells" are of course subject to it like anything else, but the phenomenon is well understood and explained already by biology. Quantum biology incidentally is a burgeoning field of study - you should look it up.
This will of course turn all science on its head because it is looking for nuclear particles when they should be looking for an invisible electric plasma...similar to the stuff defined in the Holy Bible.
Your scientifically illiterate fantasies are noted.
Still, there is a lot of mileage in sifting, analyzing,and naming nuclear shrapnel...its just that it will all soon end when they realise they are looking in the wrong direction.
My lunchtime alphabet soup made more sense than that. Do you want to try again using comprehensible language?
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Sparky,
If you want to invent neologisms of your own then it's for you to tell us what you think they imply.
It's Richard Dawkins, and just to remind you he actually says precisely the opposite of that. Specifically, he says he wouldn't be without it because of its cultural importance to him
No he doesn't. What he actually says - rightly as it happens - is that science demonstrably comes up with better answers to scientific questions than does religion.
Your words and entirely your invention too. He neither says nor implies any such thing.
You have - it's called lying.
It isn't. The electromagnetic force is just one of the four fundamental universal forces. "Living cells" are of course subject to it like anything else, but the phenomenon is well understood and explained already by biology. Quantum biology incidentally is a burgeoning field of study - you should look it up.
Your scientifically illiterate fantasies are noted.
My lunchtime alphabet soup made more sense than that. Do you want to try again using comprehensible language?
Ohhhh...The author of 'The God Delusion' now values the teaching of Jesus Christ because it is part of his heritage...it has cultural importance. You see how brain washing works bluehillside. Its a bit like the powers who want to paint Hitler as a good guy who are trying to say it wasn't him that committed all those atrocities. Those who want to portray that view pretend they believe it and ram it down the throats of those who follow them, then, before you know it, it is accepted fact and all those poor people who were hounded and bludgeoned by that regime are forgotten...except by those who refuse to forget them.
Science to you then is a done deal. Everybody knows everything and whilst the working of the living cell is concerned we've got it all sussed...Oh...but what about cancer...and all the other debilitating illnesses in the medical archives that have no answers. Perhaps Dicky has these under his belt as well.
I have news for you, bluehillside...the book you condemn, in favour of The God Delusion has more scientific answers than you could possibly imagine. For one very important reason...It tells us that it is an electric/spiritual universe and Almighty God is well worth consulting because...well...he has a science that can resurrect the dead.
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Sparky,
Ohhhh...The author of 'The God Delusion' now values the teaching of Jesus Christ because it is part of his heritage...it has cultural importance.
There's no "now" about it - he's said that consistently. That you misrepresented him (to put it politely) is a problem for you, not him.
You see how brain washing works bluehillside.
You don’t understand the term “brainwashing”, and no in any case – reporting accurately what someone says and correcting you in the process has nothing to do with “brainwashing”.
Its a bit like the powers who want to paint Hitler as a good guy who are trying to say it wasn't him that committed all those atrocities.
So now you’re comparing RD to Hitler are you? Seriously? And in any case, you’re comparing an example of getting something factually right with getting something factually wrong. Big fail.
Those who want to portray that view pretend they believe it and ram it down the throats of those who follow them, then, before you know it, it is accepted fact and all those poor people who were hounded and bludgeoned by that regime are forgotten...except by those who refuse to forget them.
No-one does “portray that view” except for some holocaust denier types like David Irving. His views are widely derided and ignored by the mainstream historic consensus though.
Science to you then is a done deal. Everybody knows everything and whilst the working of the living cell is concerned we've got it all sussed...
If you’d bothered reading about logical fallacies you’d know what a straw man argument is. I told you about the current understanding in biology of the working of “living cells” and it’s a long way ahead of what you suppose it to be.
Oh...but what about cancer...and all the other debilitating illnesses in the medical archives that have no answers.
No-one says that there’s a catch-all cure for cancer, though recovery rates are improving all the time and many researchers are working on the problem. If you think you have a better answer run a clinical trial on it and publish your results. I suggest though that you don’t use the green ink when you apply for a funding grant.
Perhaps Dicky has these under his belt as well.
Richard Dawkins is an evolutionary biologist, not a medical researcher.
I have news for you, bluehillside...
I very much doubt it, but try me…
…the book you condemn,…
Your relentless lying is getting dull now. I don’t “condemn” that book at all. What I actually do is to question the spin you put on it for the good reason that your efforts are logically, scientifically and for that matter linguistically incoherent.
… in favour of The God Delusion…
That’s called a false binary fallacy. You really should try reading up on logical fallacies some time.
… has more scientific answers than you could possibly imagine.
So you assert.
For one very important reason...It tells us that it is an electric/spiritual universe and Almighty God is well worth consulting because...well...he has a science that can resurrect the dead.
So the story goes, and indeed many credulous people think it’s true too. Weird eh?
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Sparky,
There's no "now" about it - he's said that consistently. That you misrepresented him (to put it politely) is a problem for you, not him.
You don’t understand the term “brainwashing”, and no in any case – reporting accurately what someone says and correcting you in the process has nothing to do with “brainwashing”.
So now you’re comparing RD to Hitler are you? Seriously? And in any case, you’re comparing an example of getting something factually right with getting something factually wrong. Big fail.
No-one does “portray that view” except for some holocaust denier types like David Irving. His views are widely derided and ignored by the mainstream historic consensus though.
If you’d bothered reading about logical fallacies you’d know what a straw man argument is. I told you about the current understanding in biology of the working of “living cells” and it’s a long way ahead of what you suppose it to be.
No-one says that there’s a catch-all cure for cancer, though recovery rates are improving all the time and many researchers are working on the problem. If you think you have a better answer run a clinical trial on it and publish your results. I suggest though that you don’t use the green ink when you apply for a funding grant.
Richard Dawkins is an evolutionary biologist, not a medical researcher.
I very much doubt it, but try me…
Your relentless lying is getting dull now. I don’t “condemn” that book at all. What I actually do is to question the spin you put on it for the good reason that your efforts are logically, scientifically and for that matter linguistically incoherent.
That’s called a false binary fallacy. You really should try reading up on logical fallacies some time.
So you assert.
So the story goes, and indeed many credulous people think it’s true too. Weird eh?
It's good to talk to you bluehillside because through you I can make the Biblical truth come alive for all those who might come to this forum with the intention of seeking Jesus and find you instead.
Regardless of what you say you are pushing your own anti-Bible philosophy and potential followers of Jesus' accurate word need to know that you will knock down any righteous discussion point that is put forward.
Even though science cannot argue the point that it is an electric/spiritual universe...you can. Even though it is electric energy that drives all solar activity you can say it is balone and even though Almighty God says the universe is made from this wonderful dynamic energy that made every single star, is the route behind the knowledge of everything...you can shoot it down in flames, it seems, without even opening the Holy Bible.
Nice one bluehillside...I am dying to know what you think about the sciences that will be discovered from these simple facts because the proof is indesputable as far as I am concerned, they just need a little refinement. But that refinement will come as people in dire need start to realise that it is their only hope and not the bombastic denials of disbelievers.
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Moderator Content removed
You would say that about anyone speaking Biblically, bluehillside, so I am in the good company of those who dare to speak out about the wonderful teaching in the Holy Bible...of Jesus Christ, who taught us so much...for so little.
God is a spirit and as soon as you realise this the better.
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Yep - Christianity is over-rated, and only 'amazing' to its fans (btw your argument involves an ad populum).
You have found a way of rating Christianity? :o
As Christianity is based on truth what untruth did you find which would over-rate it?
Truth is the Atheists, avoid the truth of Christianity, they cannot rate it, because if they wanted to rate it, they would have to become seekers of truth and have a love for the truth. You're avoiding the reality of what and who Christ died for. You place lesser importance on the meaning of life and even make your own life of no value outside your own senses.
The power which is Christianity has no rating with you, because you simply don't want it.
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Science to you then is a done deal. Everybody knows everything and whilst the working of the living cell is concerned we've got it all sussed...Oh...but what about cancer...and all the other debilitating illnesses in the medical archives that have no answers. Perhaps Dicky has these under his belt as well.
Tha's another thing you have got plain wrong.
The value of science lies in its understanding that we haven't got everything sussed. That is how science makes progress, by avoiding the certainties and authoritarian nature of 'revealed' religious knowledge, we remain light on our feet, more easily able to recognise when we have gotten things wrong, time for a new theory.
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Tha's another thing you have got plain wrong.
The value of science lies in its understanding that we haven't got everything sussed. That is how science makes progress, by avoiding the certainties and authoritarian nature of 'revealed' religious knowledge, we remain light on our feet, more easily able to recognise when we have gotten things wrong, time for a new theory.
I thought that was the point I was making...against your insistance that Almighty God has got it all wrong.
When you can work out where all this free energy is coming from that all science is getting excited about you will be much more advanced than them...but the line of logic that delivers it is contained in my posts and everything I write is deduced from Biblical instruction.
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I thought that was the point I was making...against your insistance that Almighty God has got it all wrong.
When you can work out where all this free energy is coming from that all science is getting excited about you will be much more advanced than them...but the line of logic that delivers it is contained in my posts and everything I write is deduced from Biblical instruction.
I'm not saying god has got it wrong. I'm pointing out where you have got it wrong.
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torri,
I'm not saying god has got it wrong. I'm pointing out where you have got it wrong.
Sparky does that a lot. If you disagree with him, he'll tell you that you're disagreeing the God/Jesus/the Bible. There's no separation in his mind between his opinions on his sources and the sources themselves.
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torri,
Sparky does that a lot. If you disagree with him, he'll tell you that you're disagreeing the God/Jesus/the Bible. There's no separation in his mind between his opinions on his sources and the sources themselves.
I'm sure there must be a name for that
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torri,
I'm sure there must be a name for that
There is - it begins "Messiah..."
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torri,
There is - it begins "Messiah..."
Thank you for applying a little decorum there bluehillside, not much, but a little.
You both can't see the wonderful science behind the Holy Bible so it is pointless telling you...but on the off chance that someone is tuned in and want to try and understand that teaching I will continue to enlighten you.
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and those that follow him will never die...from this scientific statement we can see that he isn't using common logic to direct his thoughts and actions he is using a method that is common with all man-made methods...they have laws to substantiate them. Jesus' laws are quite easy to understand. There is an indestructable energy that we can harness under the auspices of Almighty God and become the way, the truth, and the life ourselves...with resurrection, repair and everlasting life, all sewn up...just as long as we don't set ourselves up to be oppressive towards that wonderful, righteous teaching.
This is just the starting point.
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Sparky,
esus is the way, the truth and the life and those that follow him will never die...from this scientific...
That's not what "scientific" means. Try again.
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Sparky,
That's not what "scientific" means. Try again.
That is a scientific statement saying watch the things I do...I am showing you a science and these are the key principles of that science...and though you are just children in the world of science I will show you anyway and then at the appropriate time those who want to live by this science will have a distinct advantage over Wormwood.
It will be Jesus' science that, like at the end of all our lives, will transform us to healthy, resurrected life-forms, in a new vessel, and in a new age and in a new heaven and new Earth.
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Nicholas Marks
Just thought you'd like to know that I much appreciate your posts - I don't read them, but they do mean that I have plenty of posts to read from those who respond!! :D
(P.S. I hasten to add that there is no sarcasm in the above.)
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Nicholas Marks
Just thought you'd like to know that I much appreciate your posts - I don't read them, but they do mean that I have plenty of posts to read from those who respond!! :D
(P.S. I hasten to add that there is no sarcasm in the above.)
That's ok Susan...I hasten to add that you must read them by default because the responses I get always seem to allude to my points even though often in a negative way...so even you are getting the message.
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Truth is the Atheists, avoid the truth of Christianity, they cannot rate it, because if they wanted to rate it, they would have to become seekers of truth and have a love for the truth. You're avoiding the reality of what and who Christ died for. You place lesser importance on the meaning of life and even make your own life of no value outside your own senses.
That'll be your truth, Sass and not other people's truths?
Using your logic, you are equally unable to rate Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, etc.
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Truth is the Atheists, avoid the truth of Christianity, ..
How can you avoid something which you have no belief in? I was exposed to Christianity as I grew up but I never had any belief in God so there was no avoidance. I know to you Christianity is clearly 'the truth' but it is not top everyone and they aren't avoiding it just have different beliefs or no beliefs.
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How can you avoid something which you have no belief in? I was exposed to Christianity as I grew up but I never had any belief in God so there was no avoidance. I know to you Christianity is clearly 'the truth' but it is not top everyone and they aren't avoiding it just have different beliefs or no beliefs.
That's the point Maeght...you should at least have the interest to explore it to find out why so many want to believe in an all knowing God with a Judgment at the end of his sting.
Perhaps you would then find out...as I did...that what you don't believe in is the iniquity that is being sold as Jesus Christ's word which can be as soft as putty at times when you need to be as hard as nails.
Comparing what is written in the Holy Bible with how it is being taught...using Biblical words but manipulating the message to mean something entirely different...is the test against iniquity...and so you are relieved from your own excuse and can begin exploring the truth instead.
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That's the point Maeght...you should at least have the interest to explore it to find out why so many want to believe in an all knowing God with a Judgment at the end of his sting.
Perhaps you would then find out...as I did...that what you don't believe in is the iniquity that is being sold as Jesus Christ's word which can be as soft as putty at times when you need to be as hard as nails.
Comparing what is written in the Holy Bible with how it is being taught...using Biblical words but manipulating the message to mean something entirely different...is the test against iniquity...and so you are relieved from your own excuse and can begin exploring the truth instead.
Have you explored Islam Nick?
Truthfully and accurately of course?
Have you found out why so many people want to follow an all knowing Allah, where The Prophet Muhammad pbuh has reveled His purpose for mankind?
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Have you explored Islam Nick?
Truthfully and accurately of course?
Have you found out why so many people want to follow an all knowing Allah, where The Prophet Muhammad pbuh has reveled His purpose for mankind?
I'm not going to be drawn into an Islamic debate Seb...I have said all I've got to say on the matter...in fact if you actually read what I said to Maeght, you will have the answer to you own question already.
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I'm not going to be drawn into an Islamic debate Seb...I have said all I've got to say on the matter...in fact if you actually read what I said to Maeght, you will have the answer to you own question already.
All that shows is that you haven't studied Islam accurately Nick. You could be barking at the wrong moon.
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All that shows is that you haven't studied Islam accurately Nick. You could be barking at the wrong moon.
Your turn of phrase wont alter the simple fact that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, and this is an absolute because it represents a science which stems from the foundation of the universe...all hinging on a Biblical statement that says...and I quote...God is a spirit, and all that worship him musr do so in spirit and in truth...end quote...This says so much to the skillful eye but perhaps you aren't atuned to these facts Seb...so are unable to be saved...you make a darned good case for yourself for why you shouldn't be.
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Your turn of phrase wont alter the simple fact that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, and this is an absolute because it represents a science which stems from the foundation of the universe...all hinging on a Biblical statement that says...and I quote...God is a spirit, and all that worship him musr do so in spirit and in truth...end quote...
Unfortunately for you Nick, if you had studied Islam accurately and truthfully then you would realise that the Bible has become corrupted from its original form. All you are doing Nick is believing those brainwashers who have succeeded in your case.
Sorry Nick but thems the facts.
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That'll be your truth, Sass and not other people's truths?
Using your logic, you are equally unable to rate Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, etc.
Having looked into these religions I do rate Judaism. I also believe Hinduism seeks peace on a spiritual level.
But none outside the Jewish faith and Christian show a God active or capable of showing love for humans without
earning it.
My logic is fine because it does not exclude me from seeking truth. I have sought truth in other religions but never found God in them. The beginning of those religions such as Islam and Zoroastrianism have a starting point. The Christian along with the Jewish has it's beginning at the beginning of time.
No God is active in the other faiths. The exceptions being the Christian and Jewish and the Christian is really Jewish.
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How can you avoid something which you have no belief in? I was exposed to Christianity as I grew up but I never had any belief in God so there was no avoidance. I know to you Christianity is clearly 'the truth' but it is not top everyone and they aren't avoiding it just have different beliefs or no beliefs.
And you see a difference do you in those beliefs or do they all come under the same heading?
I see the differences and I also know which contain truth. :)
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My logic is fine because it does not exclude me from seeking truth. I have sought truth in other religions but never found God in them.
Just because you have looked and not found doesn't mean that he is not there.
You could simply be looking in the wrong way or without a truly open heart.
You of course will deny this but the possibility is always there.
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My logic is fine because it does not exclude me from seeking truth. I have sought truth in other religions but never found God in them. The beginning of those religions such as Islam and Zoroastrianism have a starting point. The Christian along with the Jewish has it's beginning at the beginning of time.
No God is active in the other faiths. The exceptions being the Christian and Jewish and the Christian is really Jewish.
As we know, there are many different denominations, sects and cults, all calling themselves Christian and all claiming to know the truth.
You'll probably be the first to say that not all of these groups are Christian. Why? Because in your eyes, they won't know the truth.
How do you know that the reason the truth eluded you in other religions was because you weren't in the right denomination?
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That's the point Maeght...you should at least have the interest to explore it to find out why so many want to believe in an all knowing God with a Judgment at the end of his sting.
Perhaps you would then find out...as I did...that what you don't believe in is the iniquity that is being sold as Jesus Christ's word which can be as soft as putty at times when you need to be as hard as nails.
Comparing what is written in the Holy Bible with how it is being taught...using Biblical words but manipulating the message to mean something entirely different...is the test against iniquity...and so you are relieved from your own excuse and can begin exploring the truth instead.
Not sure how that is 'the point' but anyway .... most atheists have explored Christianity and been exposed to religious teachings but do not believe. That is not avoiding anything as was suggested.
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And you see a difference do you in those beliefs or do they all come under the same heading?
I see the differences and I also know which contain truth. :)
What's that got to do with what I asked which was about how people who have no believe in God can be avoiding the 'truth' of Christianity?
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As we know, there are many different denominations, sects and cults, all calling themselves Christian and all claiming to know the truth.
You'll probably be the first to say that not all of these groups are Christian. Why? Because in your eyes, they won't know the truth.
How do you know that the reason the truth eluded you in other religions was because you weren't in the right denomination?
Here is the difinitive proof Khatru...If we are following the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ we are following the truth...If we are following a garbled truth that mixes up what Jesus says for the benefit of congregation gathering or their masters then we are following iniquity...but if the desire to find the truth is great enough we just have to follow Jesus and in so doing we are automatically following a wonderful righteous science that says resurrection is possible.
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Just because you have looked and not found doesn't mean that he is not there.
You could simply be looking in the wrong way or without a truly open heart.
You of course will deny this but the possibility is always there.
Define what 'TRUTH' I could have possibly have missed?
I am the believer you're the atheist. So when it comes to truth about God/gods in religion how would you know I could have missed something? You cannot see truth in any religion so how would you be able to even suggest someone with faith could miss a truth.
It isn't feasible for you to do let alone you suggest you know what another could miss something.
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As we know, there are many different denominations, sects and cults, all calling themselves Christian and all claiming to know the truth.
The Truth that Jesus died and rose from the dead for sinners is the same in denominations, sects and as you call them cults. Anything outside this is not relevant and yet those sects and cults seem to try and divide as you do.
You'll probably be the first to say that not all of these groups are Christian. Why? Because in your eyes, they won't know the truth.
Christians are those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, died for sins and rose from the dead. So born of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and truth. What else can define a Christian?
If they don't believe these things how can they be Christian, if they do the rest is immaterial.
How do you know that the reason the truth eluded you in other religions was because you weren't in the right denomination?
It is easy, God reveals himself in the Jewish and Christian religion. STILL waiting for him to turn up in the others. :)
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Not sure how that is 'the point' but anyway .... most atheists have explored Christianity and been exposed to religious teachings but do not believe. That is not avoiding anything as was suggested.
It is very difficult to find truth in any religion unless they are following the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ...that means switching off all the paganism that has infiltrated Jesus Christ's teaching and finding out exactly what he says...then...I suspect...your faith will be restored.
Remember...narrow is the gate but few there are that find it. That 's because they listen to Jesus' words with cotton wool in their ears and are guided by the rule that there is no need to change just go to church....I liken this to the old priest who would sell a place in Heaven to the highest bidder.
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It is very difficult to find truth in any religion unless they are following the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ...that means switching off all the paganism that has infiltrated Jesus Christ's teaching and finding out exactly what he says...then...I suspect...your faith will be restored.
I've never had any faith so it can't be restored. If your posts are an example of what you suggest, then you're wrong in what you suspect.
Remember...narrow is the gate but few there are that find it. That 's because they listen to Jesus' words with cotton wool in their ears and are guided by the rule that there is no need to change just go to church....I liken this to the old priest who would sell a place in Heaven to the highest bidder.
No idea what that's supposed to mean.
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I've never had any faith so it can't be restored. If your posts are an example of what you suggest, then you're wrong in what you suspect.
No idea what that's supposed to mean.
I wont believe you are a lost cause Maeght...not until that last trumpet. But if righteousness...or as I like to call it...the cure all of all ills...doesn't catch your imagination, well...maybe I should bear it in mind.
The Holy Bible is a good reference point for Biblical things you don't understand.
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I wont believe you are a lost cause Maeght...not until that last trumpet. But if righteousness...or as I like to call it...the cure all of all ills...doesn't catch your imagination, well...maybe I should bear it in mind.
The Holy Bible is a good reference point for Biblical things you don't understand.
Its not that I don't understand the 'Biblical things', I just don't believe in them. You sound a bit like certain political parties who think the reason they don't get elected is because of how they have communicated their message rather than the message itself. There is nothing in the Bible which effects my status of having no belief in the existence of God or gods.
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Its not that I don't understand the 'Biblical things', I just don't believe in them. You sound a bit like certain political parties who think the reason they don't get elected is because of how they have communicated their message rather than the message itself. There is nothing in the Bible which effects my status of having no belief in the existence of God or gods.
That's ok then Maeght...it begs the question of why you want to explore what others are saying about Almighty God...but we will let that one pass.
From the very first period in time people have been drawn to a concept of a god. There spiritual nature was only too willing to accept the notion of gods...easy pickings for the first scammers.
In Jesus we have our first notion of a righteous God...an advanced God from another world. That God had already drawn together a people from the depths of oppression but now wanted to get down to the serious stuff of showing that the raw material that makes stars could help the oppressed in every generation.
Not for youMaeght well your no God philosophy is not for me either
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That's ok then Maeght...it begs the question of why you want to explore what others are saying about Almighty God....
This shouldn't be hard to understand. Atheists are those people (more or less) who are permanently baffled by theist claims. Wouldn't you want to ask - why ???
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And you see a difference do you in those beliefs or do they all come under the same heading?
I see the differences and I also know which contain truth. :)
You don't KNOW for a FACT, it is a matter of belief!
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That's ok then Maeght...it begs the question of why you want to explore what others are saying about Almighty God...but we will let that one pass.
From the very first period in time people have been drawn to a concept of a god. There spiritual nature was only too willing to accept the notion of gods...easy pickings for the first scammers.
In Jesus we have our first notion of a righteous God...an advanced God from another world. That God had already drawn together a people from the depths of oppression but now wanted to get down to the serious stuff of showing that the raw material that makes stars could help the oppressed in every generation.
Not for youMaeght well your no God philosophy is not for me either
I began visiting forums like this to understand more about what and why people believe because, as torridon suggests, I was a bit baffled by religious belief to be honest. I've learnt more about what but not really about why. I also am keen to highlight misunderstandings about science and about what atheism means. I have no issue with people believing stuff so long as accept that it is a belief and not a fact and accept that not everyone believes in what they do.
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Define what 'TRUTH' I could have possibly have missed?
I am the believer you're the atheist.
Am I?
What makes you think that?
If you cant get that truth correct, what else have you got wrong? ::)
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Define what 'TRUTH' I could have possibly have missed?
The TRUTH that God is in fact within another religion, just that you have missed it by not looking correctly or with all your heart.
That TRUTH.
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So when it comes to truth about God/gods in religion how would you know I could have missed something?
I never said I knew, I said it was a possibility.
Did you read my post?
Here it is here again. I've highlighted the relevant part for the hard of reasoning.
Just because you have looked and not found doesn't mean that he is not there.
You could simply be looking in the wrong way or without a truly open heart.
You of course will deny this but the possibility is always there.
As you can see I NEVER claimed that I 'knew' about any such thing.
I merely pointed out that there was chance that you had missed something and reasons as to why that might be.
You cannot prove that you haven't.
You can huff and puff and bluster and put things in really big type and throw in a few quotes from the bible and tell me how wrong I am, but you cannot prove 100% that you haven't missed something.
PS
got any further in deciding if the witnesses to the moon landings, ie the guys who actually walked on the moon, took communion on the moon, some used their experiences on the moon to witness for Jesus, are telling the truth or not?
Are they liars?
Sassy?
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I never said I knew, I said it was a possibility.
Did you read my post?
Here it is here again. I've highlighted the relevant part for the hard of reasoning.
As you can see I NEVER claimed that I 'knew' about any such thing.
I merely pointed out that there was chance that you had missed something and reasons as to why that might be.
You cannot prove that you haven't.
You can huff and puff and bluster and put things in really big type and throw in a few quotes from the bible and tell me how wrong I am, but you cannot prove 100% that you haven't missed something.
PS
got any further in deciding if the witnesses to the moon landings, ie the guys who actually walked on the moon, took communion on the moon, some used their experiences on the moon to witness for Jesus, are telling the truth or not?
Are they liars?
Sassy?
The disbeliever cannot deny that the universe exists and somewhere in the humongus depths of it all lives someone who knows more about it scientifically than anyone else. It can't be anyone on this planet because we can't hop around space as spectacularly as many eye-witness accounts testify that others do. So perhaps this Spiritual being who resides in Heaven is just such a person and can do all the wonderful things he says he can do...and...if we can believe the science that he sends his subjects all around the universe by it gives us the clue that perhaps we should listen a little more carefully to what he has to say about righteousness and about those who seriously offend righteousness.
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The disbeliever cannot deny that the universe exists and somewhere in the humongus depths of it all lives someone who knows more about it scientifically than anyone else.
Oh yes they can deny it. Just ask any on this board. See if you are right?
My guess is that you are not.
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Oh yes they can deny it. Just ask any on this board. See if you are right?
My guess is that you are not.
When you start denying something the evidence implicitly supports you are certainly burying your head in a black-hole...Seb.
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When you start denying something the evidence implicitly supports you are certainly burying your head in a black-hole...Seb.
You stated that they would not deny it.
They will.
You were wrong.
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You stated that they would not deny it.
They will.
You were wrong.
Are you denying the universe exists or that there must be higher intelligence in the universe because the evidence of space-vehicles turning up all over the place??
In my scientific notes that means that someone, somewhere, knows a lot more about this universe than anyone on planet Earth.
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Are you denying the universe exists or that there must be higher intelligence in the universe because the evidence of space-vehicles turning up all over the place??
In my scientific notes that means that someone, somewhere, knows a lot more about this universe than anyone on planet Earth.
Could you elaborate on the space vehicles,
please, Nick.
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Could you elaborate on the space vehicles,
please, Nick.
Put Ufo's or Nick Pope into your search engine on YouTube and you will get quite a response Gordon.
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Are you denying the universe exists or that there must be higher intelligence in the universe because the evidence of space-vehicles turning up all over the place??
You said
The disbeliever cannot deny that the universe exists and somewhere in the humongus depths of it all lives someone who knows more about it scientifically than anyone else.
I said that can and will be denied.
Note that you put an 'and' in your statement.
Are you now shifting the goalposts again Nick?
The sign of a slippery salesman rearing it's ugly head again Nick.
Unless of course you are murdering the English language yet again and in that Sparktionary 'and' actually means 'or'?
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You said
I said that can and will be denied.
Note that you put an 'and' in your statement.
Are you now shifting the goalposts again Nick?
The sign of a slippery salesman rearing it's ugly head again Nick.
Unless of course you are murdering the English language yet again and in that Sparktionary 'and' actually means 'or'?
Both sentences say the same thing as far as I'm conerned Seb. I suspect you want to deny the existance of space-travellers but that is now beyond dispute. The Holy Bible is full of examples too. You just have to accept that we are dealing with a much more advanced people than us. That shouldn't be too hard.
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Both sentences say the same thing as far as I'm conerned Seb. I suspect you want to deny the existance of space-travellers but that is now beyond dispute.
Show me an undisputable piece of evidence for them then.
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Both sentences say the same thing as far as I'm conerned Seb. I suspect you want to deny the existance of space-travellers but that is now beyond dispute. The Holy Bible is full of examples too. You just have to accept that we are dealing with a much more advanced people than us. That shouldn't be too hard.
Where in the Bible does it mention space travellers, I must have missed that one?
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Where in the Bible does it mention space travellers, I must have missed that one?
You didn't read John 18:36 then or wonder why all the angels disappeared after Jesus left...or wonder how Almighty God could be the owner of the entire universe that he couldn't have access to. Reading the Holy Bible begins to make a lot more sense when we see Almighty God as a Spirit with access to the whole universe both physically and spiritually...and if we put his science to the test much more is revealed according to our own life experiences...but it has to be the accurate science not iniquities..
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You didn't read John 18:36
Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish authorities. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here.”
John 18:36
Nope, can't see any reference to space travellers there.
0/10
Please try better.
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John 18:36
Nope, can't see any reference to space travellers there.
0/10
Please try better.
You are burying your head in that proverbial black hole now Khatru. You have to come to terms with the fact that the Holy Bible is true in an absolute righteous sense and that sense yields a wonderful xcience...a science is only beneficial if we take it on board and many do this by faith so what chance have the unfaithful got.
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You are burying your head in that proverbial black hole now Khatru. You have to come to terms with the fact that the Holy Bible is true in an absolute righteous sense and that sense yields a wonderful xcience...a science is only beneficial if we take it on board and many do this by faith so what chance have the unfaithful got.
NM it isn't a fact at all, just the way you see it and what you read into it. How do you view yourself, a prophet sent by your version of god to show us the error of our ways?
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You are burying your head in that proverbial black hole now Khatru. You have to come to terms with the fact that the Holy Bible is true in an absolute righteous sense and that sense yields a wonderful xcience...a science is only beneficial if we take it on board and many do this by faith so what chance have the unfaithful got.
You were asked to show where in the Bible it mentions space travellers.
You pointed to a particular scripture that makes no mention of them - you failed.
I suppose if I looked hard enough, I could find a scripture that refers to Elvis Presley.
Wouldn't you agree?
Both Jesus and Elvis' fathers were carpenters - a clear prophecy of the coming of Elvis.
Jesus was taken to Memphis. Elvis was also taken to Memphis
More than a coincidence - it's another Elvis prophecy.
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You were asked to show where in the Bible it mentions space travellers.
You pointed to a particular scripture that makes no mention of them - you failed.
I suppose if I looked hard enough, I could find a scripture that refers to Elvis Presley.
Wouldn't you agree?
Both Jesus and Elvis' fathers were carpenters - a clear prophecy of the coming of Elvis.
Jesus was taken to Memphis. Elvis was also taken to Memphis
More than a coincidence - it's another Elvis prophecy.
There is one distinct difference between these two you make comparison with Khatru...One taught us a science which soothes and calms our inner electric being, for the purpose of health and resurrection whilst the other drove us to the hysterical limit of our endurance, using the same electric property but with much more dire consequences.
He (Elvis) built up a machine of like minded people all for the same purpose of squeezing the electric life-blood out of the young, the impreshionable, and the sons and daughters of those who were relying on the young generation to grow up and be responssible in a world that was fast abandoning all responsibility. Hence the world we live in today.
That might be fine for you Khatru but some of us hope for better...and we put our faith where our mouth is.
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Blimey NM, even for you that explanation is as clear as mud!
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NM, John Lennon said that before Elvis, there was nothing. Don't diss the King! He did more for people, young and old, and for music, than practically anyone before or since. He was also, by all accounts, a decent man and quite a positive role model in his day. Bless.
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Blimey NM, even for you that explanation is as clear as mud!
Perhaps you missed the title of this thread Floo...God is a Spirit...and all who worship him must do so in spirit and in truth...but what if someone else stumbles upon the hysterical tactics of draining our electric/spiritual nature...so that they become rich and we become spiritually exhausted...who will worship God then. Frankly we will all be suffering from a spiritual exhaustion, which means we grow very old before our time...no wonder our health is teetering on the cusp of incurable illnesses.
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NM, John Lennon said that before Elvis, there was nothing. Don't diss the King! He did more for people, young and old, and for music, than practically anyone before or since. He was also, by all accounts, a decent man and quite a positive role model in his day. Bless.
Really? I thought he was ghastly, but there you go!
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Oh floo, that is not the point of what I said, don't be so literal.
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Oh floo, that is not the point of what I said, don't be so literal.
What was the point then?
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Really? I thought he was ghastly, but there you go!
What we are establishing here is that beneath our cloak of flesh and blood is a spiritual nature that can be creamed off by those who trick the innocence of the healthy, so that these unscrupulous people become electric leaders, or charasmatics, and we become spaced out, with little integrity.
Jesus can save us from this viral infection but only if we believe.
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What we are establishing here is that beneath our cloak of flesh and blood is a spiritual nature that can be creamed off by those who trick the innocence of the healthy, so that these unscrupulous people become electric leaders, or charasmatics, and we become spaced out, with little integrity.
Jesus can save us from this viral infection but only if we believe.
I think antibiotics would be more effective, even though they are not brilliant where virus infections are concerned!!
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What we are establishing here is that beneath our cloak of flesh and blood is a spiritual nature that can be creamed off by those who trick the innocence of the healthy, so that these unscrupulous people become electric leaders, or charasmatics, and we become spaced out, with little integrity.
Jesus can save us from this viral infection but only if we believe.
I do actually agree with you there NS but you were naming names (or a name), and it seems to me to be grossly unjust to name a person, a human being with flaws like ourselves, who did more good than harm and was generally highly regarded as a person, never mind his talent, when he was alive.
If you must name names in that context, please pick on someone who whipped up hysteria en masse and went on to commit atrocities.
Please note, I have no personal bias here with regard to the person you mentioned.
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There is one distinct difference between these two you make comparison with Khatru...One taught us a science which soothes and calms our inner electric being, for the purpose of health and resurrection whilst the other drove us to the hysterical limit of our endurance, using the same electric property but with much more dire consequences.
He (Elvis) built up a machine of like minded people all for the same purpose of squeezing the electric life-blood out of the young, the impreshionable, and the sons and daughters of those who were relying on the young generation to grow up and be responssible in a world that was fast abandoning all responsibility. Hence the world we live in today.
That might be fine for you Khatru but some of us hope for better...and we put our faith where our mouth is.
So you agree that Elvis is foretold in the Bible.
I knew you'd find the evidence overwhelming..
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The book of Revelation is a gift to people like our NM! It is so daft you can interpret it any way you want. If that awful man, Trump, is elected president, I am sure someone will find a verse which they will claim refers to it! :D
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I do actually agree with you there NS but you were naming names (or a name), and it seems to me to be grossly unjust to name a person, a human being with flaws like ourselves, who did more good than harm and was generally highly regarded as a person, never mind his talent, when he was alive.
If you must name names in that context, please pick on someone who whipped up hysteria en masse and went on to commit atrocities.
Please note, I have no personal bias here with regard to the person you mentioned.
I understand your concern Brownie and Elvis was brought into the discussion by someone else and has stayed with us.
Even you can see the point I'm making even though it appears to irritate your Achille's heel...but you can substitue any other charasmatic you like...they are all feeding off the energy of their audience and for the purpose of the conservation of energy...what one person gains another looses in the extreme...and in this case it includes our moral fibre.
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He did more for people, young and old, and for music, than practically anyone before or since.
Really, I mean really?
He did more for music than Beethoven?
As far as I recall - he didn't even write music. He sang it - and then he borrowed a style already established by black people and used it for commercial purposes.
Don't get me wrong - a decent enough entertainer - but more for music than practically anyone before or since?
Nah. I can think of handful of people since that have done more, and before him, a much larger group of people.
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The book of Revelation is a gift to people like our NM! It is so daft you can interpret it any way you want. If that awful man, Trump, is elected president, I am sure someone will find a verse which they will claim refers to it! :D
You could be right about Trump Floo...I can already see him in Revelation in many different guises. But don't get too concerned because Jesus' voice is louder, more convincing and holds real promises that Trump would be well advised to listen to...but like so many others, Floo...I'm afraid he wont.
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Really, I mean really?
He did more for music than Beethoven?
As far as I recall - he didn't even write music. He sang it - and then he borrowed a style already established by black people and used it for commercial purposes.
Don't get me wrong - a decent enough entertainer - but more for music than practically anyone before or since?
Nah. I can think of handful of people since that have done more, and before him, a much larger group of people.
Alright Trent. You don't get my point. However I will modify what I said, he did a lot for music. Writing your own stuff isn't everything anyway, music students have to perfect other people's stuff, and add their own interpretation, all the time! However that wasn't quite what i was getting at.
NS, don't say things about touching my Achilles' heel, it's far too personal. I would say the same had you mentioned other well liked/loved famous people.
I think you are wrong in your assessment but you are entitled to your opinion.
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Alright Trent. You don't get my point. However I will modify what I said, he did a lot for music. Writing your own stuff isn't everything anyway, music students have to perfect other people's stuff, and add their own interpretation, all the time! However that wasn't quite what i was getting at.
NS, don't say things about touching my Achilles' heel, it's far too personal. I would say the same had you mentioned other well liked/loved famous people.
I think you are wrong in your assessment but you are entitled to your opinion.
you mean NM
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Alright Trent. You don't get my point. However I will modify what I said, he did a lot for music. Writing your own stuff isn't everything anyway, music students have to perfect other people's stuff, and add their own interpretation, all the time! However that wasn't quite what i was getting at.
NS, don't say things about touching my Achilles' heel, it's far too personal. I would say the same had you mentioned other well liked/loved famous people.
I think you are wrong in your assessment but you are entitled to your opinion.
The difference here Brownie is that Jesus taught us to upbuild a righteous spirit...and he showed us how to do it, whilst the mechanics of the world insist that we waste it, by walking and sometimes even racing hysterically, in the opposite direction. Now...if anyone can associate that waste as being the prime bender and destroyer of our good health then surely they are worth listening to.
Jesus Christ made this connection when he said...'I (Jesus Christ) am the way, the truth and the life.'
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You could be right about Trump Floo...I can already see him in Revelation in many different guises. But don't get too concerned because Jesus' voice is louder, more convincing and holds real promises that Trump would be well advised to listen to...but like so many others, Floo...I'm afraid he wont.
You are having a 'larf' aren't you?
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You are having a 'larf' aren't you?
I wish I were.
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I wish I were.
Oh NM you are something else you really are! :D
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Sorry NS, I did mean NM.
I don't go along with what he said but it's an interesting point of view.