Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Theism and Atheism => Topic started by: floo on October 07, 2016, 01:54:48 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-37587290?ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=twitter
Archbishop Desmond Tutu has said he would like to have the right to an assisted death. I think everyone should have that right if they are terminally ill, or at the end of their natural life and wish it.
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I admire Desmond Tutu, always have. What he means by "Assisted Dying" is probably not the same as you mean, floo.
There is nothing wrong with giving a terminally ill patient sufficient medication to eliminate pain and discomfort. Maybe someone who is chronically ill, if they want it. Hospices, the Macmillan team, Marie Curie, etc, do that. The side effect may be that life is shortened - but that isn't the primary purpose. I would want that and if it was not available, which is unlikely, I'd purchase illegal drugs to help me, with no qualms! It's different to deliberately euthanasing someone, knowingly causing their death.
However we have been here before, countless times.
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I admire Desmond Tutu, always have. What he means by "Assisted Dying" is probably not the same as you mean, floo.
There is nothing wrong with giving a terminally ill patient sufficient medication to eliminate pain and discomfort. Maybe someone who is chronically ill, if they want it. Hospices, the Macmillan team, Marie Curie, etc, do that. The side effect may be that life is shortened - but that isn't the primary purpose. I would want that and if it was not available, which is unlikely, I'd purchase illegal drugs to help me, with no qualms! It's different to deliberately euthanasing someone, knowingly causing their death.
However we have been here before, countless times.
I think Tutu knew exactly what he was saying and meant he wanted assistance to die, not just be out of pain.
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I admire Desmond Tutu, always have. What he means by "Assisted Dying" is probably not the same as you mean, floo.
There is nothing wrong with giving a terminally ill patient sufficient medication to eliminate pain and discomfort. Maybe someone who is chronically ill, if they want it. Hospices, the Macmillan team, Marie Curie, etc, do that. The side effect may be that life is shortened - but that isn't the primary purpose. I would want that and if it was not available, which is unlikely, I'd purchase illegal drugs to help me, with no qualms! It's different to deliberately euthanising someone, knowingly causing their death.
However we have been here before, countless times.
Nothing wrong with anyone having that outlook Brownie, all 18% of you; however I do resent the tail wagging the dog, while the 82% of us have to visit Switzerland and only if we can afford it.
ippy
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-37587290?ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=twitter
Archbishop Desmond Tutu has said he would like to have the right to an assisted death. I think everyone should have that right if they are terminally ill, or at the end of their natural life and wish it.
That suggests coercion of medical staff at some point.
It's way to open for abuse by some well healed, well connected eejit with an inflated sense of entitlement to get a doctor or nurse struck of for being a bad doctor because they wouldn't end a life.
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Nothing wrong with anyone having that outlook Brownie, all 18% of you; however I do resent the tail wagging the dog, while the 82% of us have to visit Switzerland and only if we can afford it.
ippy
Why will you have to visit Switzerland when pain relief and proper care of the dying is available here, free of charge? I'd far rather be cared for tenderly by those who are committed to easing the last days of very sick people than go somewhere cold to be exterminated by someone paid to do only that.
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Brownie: Ideally, yes, pain relief should be able to compensate as paliative medicine replaces that designed to 'cure' the sufferer. Ideally. It doesn't always work, though. I know one particular Christian lady who simply wants to die. The medication for Parkinsons' is useless; her mobility, sight, hearing, co-ordination and balance are at a horrific stage; the pain is beyond normal medication to control, and she cannot end her life - as she has expressed the desire to do so - frequently. The medics state that her major organs are still functioning reasonably well, and her prognosis is years, rather than months. Since all pain relief is useless, and she cannot coordinate her limbs in such a way that she could end her life, wouldn't assisted suicide be a practical, Christian alternative, should she request it?
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Nothing wrong with anyone having that outlook Brownie, all 18% of you; however I do resent the tail wagging the dog, while the 82% of us have to visit Switzerland and only if we can afford it.
ippy
82% ?
Don't be silly Ippy!
Where did you get that figure from?
I think you invented it!
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I didn't really understand what he meant either, Rose, even though I replied to him.
82% go to Switzerland, finances permitting, to be put down? It's a new one on me. Or perhaps he meant I am the 18% of the population who might be prepared to buy illegal narcotics if we felt it necessary :D; ippy, I was only talking off the top of my head. I wouldn't know where to go for them, even if I could afford them. It was just a thought.
Anchorman, I have the greatest sympathy for the lady you mention. I was closely involved with and helped care for an elderly Christian lady with Parkinsons. Honesty, I believe the degenerative neurological diseases, of which there are many, are the very worst things one can get. There's no easy answer. The lady I knew, very well indeed, was given morphine for the last three weeks of her life, when she was bedridden. Up until then she tried to make the most of her small world, which had gradually decreased, and was very well cared for and loved but at the end she was in distress and ready to go. The medication certainly eased things for her. A horrible illness though, something I fear, and there are other, similar, illnesses which can be even worse.
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There's no easy answer.
Then give a difficult one?
Since all pain relief is useless, and she cannot coordinate her limbs in such a way that she could end her life, wouldn't assisted suicide be a practical, Christian alternative, should she request it?
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Brownie: Ideally, yes, pain relief should be able to compensate as paliative medicine replaces that designed to 'cure' the sufferer. Ideally. It doesn't always work, though. I know one particular Christian lady who simply wants to die. The medication for Parkinsons' is useless; her mobility, sight, hearing, co-ordination and balance are at a horrific stage; the pain is beyond normal medication to control, and she cannot end her life - as she has expressed the desire to do so - frequently. The medics state that her major organs are still functioning reasonably well, and her prognosis is years, rather than months. Since all pain relief is useless, and she cannot coordinate her limbs in such a way that she could end her life, wouldn't assisted suicide be a practical, Christian alternative, should she request it?
Nice to see you back, Anchorman. :) I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments that you expressed above.
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I don't understand why the lady Anchorman is talking about is not given some strong medication, such as morphine, which would help her a great deal. It really does ease the passage from life to death and isn't just used on patients with, eg, cancer.
What I would do, I do not know - except what I said earlier, take advantage of any medication even if it meant I slept most of the time. I wouldn't care about that, quite happy to sleep and love feeling dopey and dreamy.
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In this instance, Brownie, morphine and other opiates apparently react with other medication Mary is taking. Her life is not in any imminent danger of ending. She simply wants to end it at a time of her choosing. I'm not in favour of euthenasia, but in certain specific instances when the prognosis is unending misery, and the patient in full possession of their faculties, I cannot see a problem with assisted dying.
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Nice to see you back, Anchorman. :) I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments that you expressed above.
Cheers, Enki!
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In this instance, Brownie, morphine and other opiates apparently react with other medication
These poor people are often given a lot of unnecessary medication, imho. A lot of it does nothing!
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These poor people are often given a lot of unnecessary medication, imho. A lot of it does nothing!
Possibly so - but some of her medication does mitigate the worst trembling and loss of limb control, incontinence, etc, and offer a little dignity, and that, apparantly, is the very drug whose effects opiates negate.
As a matter of fact, I visited her last week - along with my minister, to administer home communion...it's our communion season at the momment in our congregation. Although her body is shattered,useless and deteriorating, her relationship with God in Christ is not.
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That's lovely Anchorman. It's a very sad business but I am glad the meds do offer her at least some symptomatic relief.
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I didn't really understand what he meant either, Rose, even though I replied to him.
It's pretty bleedin' obvious: Ippy has claimed that 82% of us are in favour of allowing assisted dying.
The figure comes from this story http://www.dignityindying.org.uk/press-release/poll-assisted-dying/
82% go to Switzerland, finances permitting, to be put down?
I think your deliberately pretending to misunderstand.
There's no easy answer.
Yes, there is. Grant these people their wishes and help them to die.
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That's lovely Anchorman. It's a very sad business but I am glad the meds do offer her at least some symptomatic relief.
But you also seem glad that she has to live her life in constant pain.
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It's pretty bleedin' obvious: Ippy has claimed that 82% of us are in favour of allowing assisted dying.
So that's 70% of us who couldn't give a shit and 10% who'd like to bump someone off and get away with it............
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It's pretty bleedin' obvious: Ippy has claimed that 82% of us are in favour of allowing assisted dying.
Him and his blooming argumenta ad populum.
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As I have mentioned before, when my father was terminally ill with prostate cancer in 2005 he was in a lot of pain which the meds weren't relieving. My siblings and I insisted he be giving a very strong dose of morphine, probably an overdose, we knew would end his life, which it did within hours. I supposed that could be described as an assisted death.
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Why will you have to visit Switzerland when pain relief and proper care of the dying is available here, free of charge? I'd far rather be cared for tenderly by those who are committed to easing the last days of very sick people than go somewhere cold to be exterminated by someone paid to do only that.
If I'm ever in that unfortunate position I like 82% of the U K population would like to have the choice, which in turn would automatically allow you your choice too, (Several polls came up with a similar figure).
If you don't agree with assisted dying that's fine don't get yourself involved with it.
Pain relief of course for anyone that wants it, I can't think of any reason I would want prevent those that want pain relief from from having it.
This area is one of the main areas where religions seem to think their religious views should over rule the views of any other moral and ethical outlook, well that's fine, stick to those rules if that's what you want, but don't impose them on to the rest of us.
As you must know, unless you're some kind of blind deaf hermit, if you reside here in the U K people that want to have some form of assisted dying, Switzerland is the nearest place for U K citizens with terminal illness or have other reasons to go to if they wish to die, that is only if they can afford it.
There were some polls taken at about the time assisted dying was being discussed in the H O C a while back, the 82% stuck in my mind I remember it clearly and all of the other polls were within three or four percentage points of the 82%.
Don't make yourself worry to much Rose, I'll soon be shot down in flames if I'm wrong about the very high percentage of the U K population that would like to see some form of assisted dying here in the U K, in and on our statute books.
Considering Des is a religionist he still manages to be realistic about the differing ways of dealing with suffering, unlike a lot of the rest.
ippy
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It's pretty bleedin' obvious: Ippy has claimed that 82% of us are in favour of allowing assisted dying.
The figure comes from this story http://www.dignityindying.org.uk/press-release/poll-assisted-dying/
I think your deliberately pretending to misunderstand.
Yes, there is. Grant these people their wishes and help them to die.
Oh jeremy, I wasn't being disingenuous - I would have put a winking smiley had that been the case. I honestly didn't know what he meant never mind having any idea about the figures. Another idea that floated through my head was that I may have inadvertently given ippy the idea that I was more well off than I am, being able to afford to buy non-prescription drugs, and that put me maybe in the top bracket income-wise and the rest in the smaller, tail-wagging group, so I wanted to dispel that just in case.
Of course, now you've explained it, it's obvious.
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Oh jeremy, I wasn't being disingenuous - I would have put a winking smiley had that been the case. I honestly didn't know what he meant never mind having any idea about the figures. Another idea that floated through my head was that I may have inadvertently given ippy the idea that I was more well off than I am, being able to afford to buy non-prescription drugs, and that put me maybe in the top bracket income-wise and the rest in the smaller, tail-wagging group, so I wanted to dispel that just in case.
Of course, now you've explained it, it's obvious.
Brownie, I have no thoughts about how much wealth you have or not, more of your just slightly misunderstanding?
The point is we've not got an option to take assisted dying here in the U K unless you have the financial means, to go somewhere where they do allow assisted dying and pay the fee, somewhere like Switzerland, having paid the fare to go to the Swiss clinic I think their fee is around the £6000 mark, Belgium has just passed something on this enlightened approach to assisted dying I'm not sure exactly what it is, because I only managed to hear the tail end of a report about that.
We should all have easy access assisted dying here in our own country, without involving such a heavy charge for doing so, (Wealthy or not).
If you have religious reasons for not taking the assisted dying option, that's fine too, don't take it, I wouldn't want to impose my point of view about assisted dying on you.
Do try to read thing through properly, we all get the wrong end of the stick from time to time, you seem to be going through a rather bad patch of misunderstandings at the mo.
ippy
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It's pretty bleedin' obvious: Ippy has claimed that 82% of us are in favour of allowing assisted dying.
The figure comes from this story http://www.dignityindying.org.uk/press-release/poll-assisted-dying/
I think your deliberately pretending to misunderstand.
Yes, there is. Grant these people their wishes and help them to die.
Thanks for that J P, I knew I had heard or read it somewhere.
ippy
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Brownie, I have no thoughts about how much wealth you have or not, more of your just slightly misunderstanding?
The point is we've not got an option to take assisted dying here in the U K unless you have the financial means, to go somewhere where they do allow assisted dying and pay the fee, somewhere like Switzerland, having paid the fare to go to the Swiss clinic I think their fee is around the £6000 mark, Belgium has just passed something on this enlightened approach to assisted dying I'm not sure exactly what it is, because I only managed to hear the tail end of a report about that.
We should all have easy access assisted dying here in our own country, without such without involving such a heavy charge for doing so, (Wealthy or not).
If you have religious reasons for not taking the assisted dying option, that's fine too, don't take it, I wouldn't want to impose my point of view about assisted dying on you.
Do try to read thing through properly, we all get the wrong end of the stick from time to time, you seem to be going through a rather bad patch of misunderstandings at the mo.
ippy
Do I ippy? I didn't realise it was so frequent or noticeable, I've always been someone who doesn't see the obvious but I do read posts. I'm so sorry and embarrassed, perhaps I need a short break and then come back fully charged.
Love xxx
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Do I ippy? I didn't realise it was so frequent or noticeable, I've always been someone who doesn't see the obvious but I do read posts. I'm so sorry and embarrassed, perhaps I need a short break and then come back fully charged.
Love xxx
Brownie your post bears very little relation to my post and the, get away with anything smile approach has never really worked on me.
In this case, conveying similar smile like situation, only with words on paper.
ippy
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Doctors can administer pain relief to dying patients even if it causes the death as long as it is administered purely to ease pain. There are no postmortems for expected deaths.
They can administer whatever is needed to ease pain when dying. :(
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Doctors can administer pain relief to dying patients even if it causes the death as long as it is administered purely to ease pain. There are no postmortems for expected deaths.
They can administer whatever is needed to ease pain when dying. :(
So, what about those with life limiting illness which, whilst progressive, is not terminal?
In the case of Mary - of whom I posted earlier on this thread - the normal paliative pain killers are not recommended - they clash with her existing medication.
Again, as posted earlier, she is in constant, intolerable pain but may well live years rather than months.
She is a committed Christian, totally compus mentis, but wants help to end her life, which is too much of a burden for her?
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So, what about those with life limiting illness which, whilst progressive, is not terminal?
In the case of Mary - of whom I posted earlier on this thread - the normal paliative pain killers are not recommended - they clash with her existing medication.
Again, as posted earlier, she is in constant, intolerable pain but may well live years rather than months.
She is a committed Christian, totally compus mentis, but wants help to end her life, which is too much of a burden for her?
There are two ways I see possible. Mary asks the LORD God to heal or to take her peacefully in her sleep. Do you think the LORD God would ignore her?
I feel that there are only those options or she looks for alternative medicines and pain killers. It is so sad but we cannot make those decisions for others or help them take their own lives. We can trust God to take her or heal her. We can also look for alternative pain killers. :(
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There are two ways I see possible. Mary asks the LORD God to heal or to take her peacefully in her sleep. Do you think the LORD God would ignore her?
I feel that there are only those options or she looks for alternative medicines and pain killers. It is so sad but we cannot make those decisions for others or help them take their own lives. We can trust God to take her or heal her. We can also look for alternative pain killers. :(
If your God had been a decent bloke and not a vindictive sadistic (insert expleteive of your choice) he wouldn't have inflicted the plethora of unpleasant diseases on humanity in the first place.
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There are two ways I see possible. Mary asks the LORD God to heal or to take her peacefully in her sleep. Do you think the LORD God would ignore her?
I feel that there are only those options or she looks for alternative medicines and pain killers. It is so sad but we cannot make those decisions for others or help them take their own lives. We can trust God to take her or heal her. We can also look for alternative pain killers. :(
Maybe you could ask him on her behalf?
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There are two ways I see possible. Mary asks the LORD God to heal or to take her peacefully in her sleep. Do you think the LORD God would ignore her?
I feel that there are only those options or she looks for alternative medicines and pain killers. It is so sad but we cannot make those decisions for others or help them take their own lives. We can trust God to take her or heal her. We can also look for alternative pain killers. :(
What a load of BALONEY, you certainly can't trust god to do anything decent!
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There are two ways I see possible. Mary asks the LORD God to heal or to take her peacefully in her sleep. Do you think the LORD God would ignore her?
I feel that there are only those options or she looks for alternative medicines and pain killers. It is so sad but we cannot make those decisions for others or help them take their own lives. We can trust God to take her or heal her. We can also look for alternative pain killers. :(
That opens the debate.
Did God allow scientists to develop paliative drugs?
Did He endorse the work of Christian medics who were developing medication which, if administered, would be not only life limiting, but life ending?
And what if a deeply committed Christian who has no quality of life, repeatedly asks God to end it - but she remains enduring agony of body and soul?
With respect, Sass, your answer is trite under the circumstances.
If (and when, though that situation may be decades in the future) my situation deteriorates to an extent that my quality of life is non existant, I may very well face the same dilemma as Mary.
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Maybe you could ask him on her behalf?
No! Let her ask herself or those friends like Anchorman.
I watched my grandmother die from cancer and she never moaned, complained or wish herself dead. Like my cousin who died aged 33 from cancer they faced it and they embraced the suffering without complaint and died very bravely and without wishing themselves dead.
My grandmother refused food towards the end she starved herself practically. Only took morphine in her last 48 hours.
My sister died at 13 and my nephew was murdered. My nephew suffered cruel beatings.
My cousins children have cystic fibrosis. You think they are not suffering?
Sorry! I don't believe you or anyone have the right to ask me to pray for death for someone.
We have children with heart disease a genetic heart disease.
Whilst I feel for everyone suffering from pain and sickness. You have no right to ask me to pray for their death. I pray for cures to be found and healing.
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That opens the debate.
Did God allow scientists to develop paliative drugs?
Did He endorse the work of Christian medics who were developing medication which, if administered, would be not only life limiting, but life ending?
And what if a deeply committed Christian who has no quality of life, repeatedly asks God to end it - but she remains enduring agony of body and soul?
With respect, Sass, your answer is trite under the circumstances.
If (and when, though that situation may be decades in the future) my situation deteriorates to an extent that my quality of life is non existant, I may very well face the same dilemma as Mary.
How long would Mary live without her medication?
God has provided everything good for man including the science of medication.
There is no debate about medication and as for being trite I have seen suffering amongst my own as the earlier post showed. You said that the pain killers would interfere with her medication she is now on. Why, if she seeks to die and be pain free now is she taking medication besides her pain killers?
So you have the same illness as Mary?
I am not sure but it appears from the above you are saying you have the same condition?
When you see Christ on the cross, and his suffering do you believe if you were the only sinner he would have died for you, alone? Then why don't you believe what is written?
By his stripes were are healed.
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Why not ask your saviour to do as it is written. With his stripes we are healed. No, if's, but's or maybe. You sound as if you question the truth rather than approach God and our Lord Jesus with it.
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No! Let her ask herself or those friends like Anchorman.
I watched my grandmother die from cancer and she never moaned, complained or wish herself dead. Like my cousin who died aged 33 from cancer they faced it and they embraced the suffering without complaint and died very bravely and without wishing themselves dead.
My grandmother refused food towards the end she starved herself practically. Only took morphine in her last 48 hours.
My sister died at 13 and my nephew was murdered. My nephew suffered cruel beatings.
My cousins children have cystic fibrosis. You think they are not suffering?
Sorry! I don't believe you or anyone have the right to ask me to pray for death for someone.
We have children with heart disease a genetic heart disease.
Whilst I feel for everyone suffering from pain and sickness. You have no right to ask me to pray for their death. I pray for cures to be found and healing.
I never asked you to.
You gave two alternatives.
There are two ways I see possible. Mary asks the LORD God to heal or to take her peacefully in her sleep. Do you think the LORD God would ignore her?
You could of course choose the first one. But for some reason you chose to ignore that one in order to get a cheap shot in.
So why don't you,
ask the LORD God to heal her.
Do you think the LORD God would ignore you?
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No! Let her ask herself or those friends like Anchorman.
I watched my grandmother die from cancer and she never moaned, complained or wish herself dead. Like my cousin who died aged 33 from cancer they faced it and they embraced the suffering without complaint and died very bravely and without wishing themselves dead.
My grandmother refused food towards the end she starved herself practically. Only took morphine in her last 48 hours.
My sister died at 13 and my nephew was murdered. My nephew suffered cruel beatings.
My cousins children have cystic fibrosis. You think they are not suffering?
Sorry! I don't believe you or anyone have the right to ask me to pray for death for someone.
We have children with heart disease a genetic heart disease.
Whilst I feel for everyone suffering from pain and sickness. You have no right to ask me to pray for their death. I pray for cures to be found and healing.
Considering the amount of pain, suffering, and death that your God has inflicted upon members of your family and your circle of friends, I am amazed that you continue to hold him in the awe and respect that you do! I truly cannot understand how or why you can do so. How any intelligent and caring person can still consider your God to be worthy of your continued love and grovelling obedience is totally beyond my comprehension.
If you can accept these happenings as a "test of your faith", calls me to seriously question your entire personality.
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I never asked you to.
Clearly you did...
Check the post, I suggest asking God for healing or to take her.
The second suggestion was that WE search/look for an alternative pain killers.
You gave two alternatives.You could of course choose the first one. But for some reason you chose to ignore that one in order to get a cheap shot in.
So why don't you,
That is wrong because the first one alone was about asking God. The second referred to "we" looking for an alternative pain killers. So there was NO way you could be referring to the second choice be about asking God, only the first.
ask the LORD God to heal her.
Do you think the LORD God would ignore you?
Again you clearly show you were referring to the first choice of her dying or being healed.
And you omitted what was written.
Sassy on October 09, 2016, 11:14:28 PM
There are two ways I see possible. Mary asks the LORD God to heal or to take her peacefully in her sleep. Do you think the LORD God would ignore her?
I feel that there are only those options or she looks for alternative medicines and pain killers. It is so sad but we cannot make those decisions for others or help them take their own lives. We can trust God to take her or heal her. We can also look for alternative pain killers. :(
Maybe you could ask him on her behalf?
It is clear the option was for Mary to ask God to heal her or taker her. One option the second was WE can look for alternative pain killers. So the only thing you could ask me to ask God for was the single option of healing or death. As I said Mary and Anchorman etc can do that.
I made clear in my post to you...
You have no right to ask me to pray for their death. I pray for cures to be found and healing.
At not time did you suggest you were asking for only healing. It is settled you were the one taking the cheap shot.
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My father died 11 years today. I am so very grateful the high dose of painkillers he was given at our insistence, ended his suffering and life within hours.
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How long would Mary live without her medication? God has provided everything good for man including the science of medication. There is no debate about medication and as for being trite I have seen suffering amongst my own as the earlier post showed. You said that the pain killers would interfere with her medication she is now on. Why, if she seeks to die and be pain free now is she taking medication besides her pain killers? So you have the same illness as Mary?[/ I am not sure but it appears from the above you are saying you have the same condition? When you see Christ on the cross, and his suffering do you believe if you were the only sinner he would have died for you, alone? Then why don't you believe what is written? By his stripes were are healed. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Why not ask your saviour to do as it is written. With his stripes we are healed. No, if's, but's or maybe. You sound as if you question the truth rather than approach God and our Lord Jesus with it.
How long would Mary live without her medication? God has provided everything good for man including the science of medication. There is no debate about medication and as for being trite I have seen suffering amongst my own as the earlier post showed. You said that the pain killers would interfere with her medication she is now on. Why, if she seeks to die and be pain free now is she taking medication besides her pain killers? Because she is in Pain? That might be a reason for doctors prescribing pain killers. - So you have the same illness as Mary? - Where did I say that I have the same condition as Mary? This is not the case. My condition is nevertheless beyond medics to deal with and will be progressive. - I am not sure but it appears from the above you are saying you have the same condition? When you see Christ on the cross, and his suffering do you believe if you were the only sinner he would have died for you, alone? Then why don't you believe what is written? By his stripes were are healed. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Why not ask your saviour to do as it is written. With his stripes we are healed. No, if's, but's or maybe. You sound as if you question the truth rather than approach God and our Lord Jesus with it.
Thanks for yet more Jacobean English. Are you saying that we should put up with all suffering and pain even though there is no quality of life because it's a test of faith? Really? Yes, I agree, many believers down through the ages have had suffering - from Paul onwards - and they have been used despite - rather than because of - any disabilities they had. However, God has given us minds , and many Christians through the ages have used those minds to develop medication which can improve quality of life - or eas suffering - and in the latter case, that medication can end it. Why, Sass, would God allow this medication to exist? To tempt those who He considers His children to test their faith by choosing a long agonised existance with no hope in this world of healing when all the prayers have been prayed and the answer 'No' given? That's not the God I know - thankfully. As I posted earlier; involuntary euthanasia - without the express consent of the sufferer - is wrong. Assisted dying, when after independent medical assesment by two separate specialists, the suffer is adamant, cannot be ruled out - in the name of compassion and love.