Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Science and Technology => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on October 14, 2016, 09:19:10 AM
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And even bigger than we thought
http://tinyurl.com/zq96k48
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No wonder god needed to rest on the seventh day! ;D
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And even bigger than we thought
http://tinyurl.com/zq96k48
That is just awesome.
As if what we thought before wasn't awesome anyway.
We cannot conceive of such immensity.
Extrapolating a quick fag packet based on a recent estimate of the incidence of habitable Earth-like planets gives a figure of 800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 life-friendly planets.
I need a lie down just trying to think about it.
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But two entangled particles seem to influence one another instantaneously even across this immense universe!!! Think of that.... ;)
In a simulated universe...space is just an illusion. The zoom-out pictures of the massive universe we see on TV are just bits and bytes on a CD. :) It could be the same of the 'real' universe. Its all probably in the mind.
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But two entangled particles seem to influence one another even across this immense universe!!! Think of that.... ;)
In a simulated universe...space is just an illusion. The zoom-out pictures of the massive universe we see on TV are just bits and bytes on a CD. :) It could be the same of the 'real' universe. Its all probably in the mind.
in a simulated universe, the mind would be a simulation
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in a simulated universe, the mind would be a simulation
True! But that depends on what we mean by the mind. The mind has several levels and some parts are connected to the body. That will be a simulation.
But the 'subject' and its Consciousness could still be an independent observer.
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True! But that depends on what we mean by the mind. The mind has several levels and some parts are connected to the body. That will be a simulation.
But the 'subject' and its Consciousness could still be an independent observer.
but whatever is in the simulation is a simulation. the thing outside, if there is such a thing, is not the thing inside.
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but whatever is in the simulation is a simulation. the thing outside, if there is such a thing, is not the thing inside.
Yes...! But when we remove the headset (leave the body), we remain the subject.... while the world is just an experience and the body/mind is just a means to the experience. Till we leave the body.... we are a part of the experience.
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Yes...! But when we remove the headset (leave the body), we remain the subject.... while the world is just an experience and the body/mind is just a means to the experience. Till we leave the body.... we are a part of the experience.
No, that's assuming that what is in here is somehow represented outside. When I kill something in a computer game, is something outside veunf killed?
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No, that's assuming that what is in here is somehow represented outside. When I kill something in a computer game, is something outside veunf killed?
I am obviously taking my cue from NDE's.
When you kill someone in the game, the person leaves his headset and takes up another to continue the game. You lose points in the bargain.
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I am obviously taking my cue from NDE's.
When you kill someone in the game, the person leaves his headset and takes up another to continue the game. You lose points in the bargain.
As they are internal, they are merely simulation as well
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As they are internal, they are merely simulation as well
What are internal?
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What are internal?
The NDEs
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The NDEs
Why should they be? Only the body/mind is of this world. Outside the body, we are outside the simulation.
We can of course assume that there is a bigger simulation of which the 'other world' is also a part. That leads to infinite regress and we can perhaps go into a pantheist perception of the world. Like the Advaita philosophy, only the universal spirit is real and everything else is maya.
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Because it's internal to the simulation. And the whole justification behind the idea of simulations leads to an infinite regress
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Because it's internal to the simulation. And the whole justification behind the idea of simulations leads to an infinite regress
Yes...I have said that.
But we are assuming that the other world also has to necessarily be a simulation.
If we go only by what we know today....that is... people who have NDE's leave their bodies and see their bodies from the outside. They do not feel any connection with their bodies or the physical world. Based on this, I assume that the physical world is like a simulation such that, once we leave the body we leave behind these experiences, similar to removing the VR headset. That is all it is.
We don't have any information to assume that the other world is also a simulation and that there is something similar to death in that world also. Maybe there isn't.
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No, the reason why there is an infinite regress is the reason for assuming a simulation in the first place.
I don't feel any connection with the physical world when I am dreaming - is that the game downtime?
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No, the reason why there is an infinite regress is the reason for assuming a simulation in the first place.
I don't feel any connection with the physical world when I am dreaming - is that the game downtime?
I am not claiming to have all the answers...but the sleeping and dreaming could be something like a rest time or a rejuvenation. If fact we do know that it is a rest and rejuvenation. Doctors tell us so.
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And even bigger than we thought
http://tinyurl.com/zq96k48
However big it is, it is never going to be as big a Sassy's ego!
;)
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The idea of a simulation, as I understand it, would be closer to things like climate models. The computer is programmed with rules and in the case of reality simulation the rules would be the base laws of physics. Set some initial conditions and let it go. Cosmologists do this already to put constraints on theoretical models of galaxy formation, the idea of virtual reality is taking it further to model in the development of high order sentience. Particles, once instantiated, cluster under primary forces into larger groups to form atoms, molecules, planets, and so on; but all particles are slightly sentient and so minds occur as a temporary nexus of sentience. I don't see how this could mean that the entire simulation cold equate to a mind as evidence from our simulation (if that is what it is) is that minds form as a local temporary nexus of sentience just as planets form as a local temporary nexus of particles.
But we are still left with the problem that the program running the simulation would itself be a nexus of complexity in a simulation in some higher space according to this logic.
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The idea of a simulation, as I understand it, would be closer to things like climate models. The computer is programmed with rules and in the case of reality simulation the rules would be the base laws of physics. Set some initial conditions and let it go. Cosmologists do this already to put constraints on theoretical models of galaxy formation, the idea of virtual reality is taking it further to model in the development of high order sentience. Particles, once instantiated, cluster under primary forces into larger groups to form atoms, molecules, planets, and so on; but all particles are slightly sentient and so minds occur as a temporary nexus of sentience. I don't see how this could mean that the entire simulation cold equate to a mind as evidence from our simulation (if that is what it is) is that minds form as a temporary nexus of sentience just as planets form as a temporary nexus of particles.
But we are still left with the problem that the program running the simulation would itself be a nexus of complexity in a simulation in some higher space according to this logic.
I am not going by any imaginary models or idle musings of what things might be. I am going entirely by NDE's that millions of people have. You might dismiss them as brain generated hallucinations...but I, like many researchers, take them seriously.
So...going entirely by these experiences...we have enough information to say that this physical world is perhaps like a simulation from which we go away when we die.....only to 'play' again in another body. There is no information with us to assume that the simulation extends further into another world beyond that and so on.
Goodnight!
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You might think it's a long way down to the shops, but that's just peanuts compared to space.
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Hi everyone,
OK...let us leave the NDE bit out for some time and focus on the behaviour of entangled elementary particles. They seem to instantaneously influence one another across massive distances. So...what do you think is happening here?
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Hi everyone,
OK...let us leave the NDE bit out for some time and focus on the behaviour of entangled elementary particles. They seem to instantaneously influence one another across massive distances. So...what do you think is happening here?
I would be a follower of the theories of the great Bulgarian physicist, Fuctivanov, on this
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Sriram
Perhaps the entangled particles communicate in a different dimension?
In that case they are never far away from each other and only appear to be in our 4 dimensions?
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Hi everyone,
OK...let us leave the NDE bit out for some time and focus on the behaviour of entangled elementary particles. They seem to instantaneously influence one another across massive distances. So...what do you think is happening here?
Entanglement as a concept happens at all levels in the classical world, however it is quantum entanglement that is giving us headaches trying to figure out the base nature of reality. It is not just confined to elementary particles however, we have managed now to create quantum entangled living things - virus and bacteria, but the bigger the object the harder it is to preserve quantum uncertainty, which is why it is so hard to build working quantum computers. Einstein once joked, mocking the Copenhagen Interpretation, that the Moon is not there when no one is looking at it, but the reason it seems to be there all the time is that it is a really large object, too large to remain isolated for long. We can only glimpse these strange effects experimentally with tiny things that we can isolate from interaction with the rest of the cosmos.
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I would be a follower of the theories of the great Bulgarian physicist, Fuctivanov, on this
It would be helpful if you could briefly outline his ideas.
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Sriram
Perhaps the entangled particles communicate in a different dimension?
In that case they are never far away from each other and only appear to be in our 4 dimensions?
What does that mean? Explaining a bizarre phenomenon with a more bizarre concept does not seem to be helpful.
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Entanglement as a concept happens at all levels in the classical world, however it is quantum entanglement that is giving us headaches trying to figure out the base nature of reality. It is not just confined to elementary particles however, we have managed now to create quantum entangled living things - virus and bacteria, but the bigger the object the harder it is to preserve quantum uncertainty, which is why it is so hard to build working quantum computers. Einstein once joked, mocking the Copenhagen Interpretation, that the Moon is not there when no one is looking at it, but the reason it seems to be there all the time is that it is a really large object, too large to remain isolated for long. We can only glimpse these strange effects experimentally with tiny things that we can isolate from interaction with the rest of the cosmos.
So...you are saying that even large objects like ourselves could get entangled and could influence one another instantaneously across the universe?! Noticing the effect however might be difficult.
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What does that mean? Explaining a bizarre phenomenon with a more bizarre concept does not seem to be helpful.
String theory posits more invisible dimensions.
If there are more dimensions then perhaps in one dimension everything is very close.
Things only appear distant in the dimensions we are aware of.
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String theory posits more invisible dimensions.
If there are more dimensions then perhaps in one dimension everything is very close.
Things only appear distant in the dimensions we are aware of.
Hi BeRational,
Yes...I know of the seven dimensions that are said to be wrapped around the String.
But IMO a dimension need not be in terms of space and distances only. Just as Time is said to be the fourth dimension, other dimensions could be other aspects of reality that we normally observe but do not realize as being in another dimension. For example, our mind itself could be a fifth dimension and maybe the unconscious mind is the sixth dimension.
Life is a mystery and we are getting habituated to 'understanding' it. This is because of our Need to Understand. We have begun to think that by giving in to this need we are doing something exceptional and wonderful. At one stage of development this may be right, but at later stages it may become a hindrance.
If we controlled the Need to Understand just as we control our other needs, we might observe Reality more vividly.
Just some thoughts.
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Hi BeRational,
Yes...I know of the seven dimensions that are said to be wrapped around the String.
But IMO a dimension need not be in terms of space and distances only. Just as Time is said to be the fourth dimension, other dimensions could be other aspects of reality that we normally observe but do not realize as being in another dimension. For example, our mind itself could be a fifth dimension and maybe the unconscious mind is the sixth dimension.
Life is a mystery and we are getting habituated to 'understanding' it. This is because of our Need to Understand. We have begun to think that by giving in to this need we are doing something exceptional and wonderful. At one stage of development this may be right, but at later stages it may become a hindrance.
If we controlled the Need to Understand just as we control our other needs, we might observe Reality more vividly.
Just some thoughts.
just guessing about stuff is a good start. But, you need to move from a guess to gather evidence to support the guess.
I posited the 7th dimension as a guess to being a dimension that has zero spacial size but is everywhere in our 4 dimensions.
This is great as it can then answer why particles seemingly far apart are actually not far apart at all.
Great, I have made up and answer and made it fit what we see happen. So what?
We can all do that, jut make up stuff.
What we do NOT do, is accept these made up answers. We need to find out first of all if there are hidden dimensions and how they work. I think some string theories (as there are a few) have more dimensions than others.
You seem to like just being in the made up part.
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just guessing about stuff is a good start. But, you need to move from a guess to gather evidence to support the guess.
I posited the 7th dimension as a guess to being a dimension that has zero spacial size but is everywhere in our 4 dimensions.
This is great as it can then answer why particles seemingly far apart are actually not far apart at all.
Great, I have made up and answer and made it fit what we see happen. So what?
We can all do that, jut make up stuff.
What we do NOT do, is accept these made up answers. We need to find out first of all if there are hidden dimensions and how they work. I think some string theories (as there are a few) have more dimensions than others.
You seem to like just being in the made up part.
And you really think all these many dimensions and Strings are actually going to be proved some day?!
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And you really think all these many dimensions and Strings are actually going to be proved some day?!
No idea.
I just used them to make up an answer that fitted a problem of entangled particles to show that making stuff up is not enough.
Evidence that supports your position is what is needed.
You seem happy with just making stuff up and forget about the evidence is the point I am making.
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No idea.
I just used them to make up an answer that fitted a problem of entangled particles to show that making stuff up is not enough.
Evidence that supports your position is what is needed.
You seem happy with just making stuff up and forget about the evidence is the point I am making.
What stuff have I made up about entangled particles influencing one another?!
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What stuff have I made up about entangled particles influencing one another?!
NDE stuff is just made up to explain something you find interesting.
It is not currently known how entangled particles influence each other.
So the honest answer is "we do not know". If you say more than that without evidence, then you are just making stuff up.
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NDE stuff is just made up to explain something you find interesting.
It is not currently known how entangled particles influence each other.
So the honest answer is "we do not know". If you say more than that without evidence, then you are just making stuff up.
What have NDE's got to do with entanglement and elementary particles? I was referring to NDE's in a different context related to simulation and virtual reality.
At any rate, there is more evidence for the 'other world' through NDE's than for seven dimensions wrapped around a String.
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What have NDE's got to do with entanglement and elementary particles? I was referring to NDE's in a different context related to simulation and virtual reality.
At any rate, there is more evidence for the 'other world' through NDE's than for seven dimensions wrapped around a String.
No there is not.
There is no evidence for NDE that is not rebutted by what we know about brain function.
You are just making stuff up
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No there is not.
There is no evidence for NDE that is not rebutted by what we know about brain function.
You are just making stuff up
I am not making up anything. NDE's actually happen. I am just not accepting the hallucinations hypothesis to explain these experiences, that is all.
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I am not making up anything. NDE's actually happen. I am just not accepting the hallucinations hypothesis to explain these experiences, that is all.
NDE do NOT point to anything other than brain function.
If you say it does then you need evidence, otherwise you are just accepting assertions.
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NDE do NOT point to anything other than brain function.
If you say it does then you need evidence, otherwise you are just accepting assertions.
Ok...thanks!
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Ok...thanks!
You're welcome.