Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: Walter on November 18, 2016, 10:09:17 PM
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where is your loving god tonight?
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I've watched some of it and have it on now.
The love in action that some of these children generate in others is something I find extremely moving, quite uplifting really. I see God in that.
I also feel humble when I think of my occasional moans and groans compared to what the kids put up with.
From what I saw, it was a quite a good show and they've raised 46m so far.
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Certainly, Christians should be angry - if we claim to be following Him, that is. Apparently, last night's shindig raised one eighth of the amount it will cost to renovate Elizabeth Windsor's house. Apparently, Royalty in need is more important to the government than children.
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where is your loving god tonight?
Where indeed?
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Our loving God is making sure the 'Children in Need' is a success because mankind allowed the things to happen which caused the need for such Charities.
He left man in charge of the earth...
What a mess man made of it... Now MAN wants to blame God for their mismanagement and mistakes.
God is where he has always been there waiting for the world to turn to him and believe in Christ.
If every man believed there would be no famine or needs. Because everyone would love their neighbour and trust in Gods provision.
EPIC fail on mans part. As with the first man Adam....no change in always blaming someone else and taking no responsibility.
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Look in the mirror, it is because man allowed it to happen that we need the "Children in Need."
I note the title wasn't I am giving to Children in Need. Semantics... you want to blame someone and others want to help instead.
Giving is a private matter regarding amounts but don't pretend that you actually thought of the good that was being done.
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I've watched some of it and have it on now.
The love in action that some of these children generate in others is something I find extremely moving, quite uplifting really. I see God in that.
I also feel humble when I think of my occasional moans and groans compared to what the kids put up with.
From what I saw, it was a quite a good show and they've raised 46m so far.
well thank god for the sick
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Your 'loving god' should have prevented the Children from being in need in the first place, if it exists, and could help!
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Your 'loving god' should have prevented the Children from being in need in the first place, if it exists, and could help!
I just love it when those who condone evil want to paste the results of evil on Almighty God. The system of this world ensures there is never enough caring, wealth or humanity to go around whilst those very traits used in a specialised way is all that is needed to get this world ticking in a wonderful way. God's not arguing with anyone...he has ordained how he will conclude this wicked system in one foul swoop...He will allow a natural disaster which he has forewarned us about and given us a method to save ourselves by, to take away that evil attitude once and for all.
It's his world and he has told us how he expects us live and then there will be no children in need.
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I don't condone wrongdoing that is a LIE NM! :o You obviously haven't read the Bible properly if you think the deeds attributed to god are good, like Noah's flood, and getting an unmarried girl pregnant, for instance!
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I don't condone wrongdoing that is a LIE NM! :o You obviously haven't read the Bible properly if you think the deeds attributed to god are good, like Noah's flood, and getting an unmarried girl pregnant, for instance!
According to the Holy Bible there is righteousness and there is evil...you are either for righteousness or against it. If you condemn righteousness you have set yourself up as being against righteousness...no play on words will alter God's or Jesus' view on the matter...you are therefore condoning evil. That doesn't necessarily mean you are wilfully evil as many are but that you wont be saved because you represent an animosity towards righteousness which will not be tolerated after God's Judgement.
I can only urge you to repent and get you onto the science that will save you...ie...the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.
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According to the Holy Bible there is righteousness and there is evil...you are either for righteousness or against it. If you condemn righteousness you have set yourself up as being against righteousness...no play on words will alter God's or Jesus' view on the matter...you are therefore condoning evil. That doesn't necessarily mean you are wilfully evil as many are but that you wont be saved because you represent an animosity towards righteousness which will not be tolerated after God's Judgement.
I can only urge you to repent and get you onto the science that will save you...ie...the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.
I've been resisting this but I'm going to ask it anyway
how do you know its accurate?
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I've been resisting this but I'm going to ask it anyway
how do you know its accurate?
I wish you would throw something which taxed me or was difficult to answer because these obvious points don't stretch me at all...Walter.
Jesus was very specific in his teaching. He didn't hum and ahhh...he taught us righteousness, and told us it was Almighty God's code of conduct which we must all follow to be saved. This knowledge is contained within every reputable Holy Bible but when you come to compare that accurate teaching with what is being taught by the many authorities who claim to teach about Jesus you find all sorts of unrighteous innuendos...false teachings...even commercial profiteering and we know what Jesus thought of that. This alternative teaching then, is iniquity, whilst reading what Jesus actually said and did and implementing it into our daily lives would be much more accurate...wouldn't you agree??
When you try it you find that in fact there is a science supporting his teaching and this should make us want to harness his accurate teaching even more...especially as yours and my repair, resurrection, and everlasting life are involved.
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NM
all you've done there is reiterated that his teachings were accurate , You still haven't said how you know that . Have you got a piece of paper or something with all the teachings written on it so you can test if he got it all correct . Like a prompter who reads all the lines of a play at the foot of the stage incase an actor forgets his lines.
You cant know if his teachings were accurate unless you know beforehand what they were supposed to be.
Do you not see that?
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NM
all you've done there is reiterated that his teachings were accurate , You still haven't said how you know that . Have you got a piece of paper or something with all the teachings written on it so you can test if he got it all correct . Like a prompter who reads all the lines of a play at the foot of the stage incase an actor forgets his lines.
You cant know if his teachings were accurate unless you know beforehand what they were supposed to be.
Do you not see that?
What I see is that evil has had dominance over this planet from the year dot and Jesus came and taught us how to live with evil and not be part of it...and it works. So ok Jesus was crucified by evil but he knew he would be because evil has no compassion and will not allow anyone to breech their oppression...but Almighty God isn't anyone...it served his purpose and those who have sought his help in the way Jesus taught us...accurately...also knows that the only compassion in this world today stems from Jesus' teaching and these will inherit the Earth because evil, now, has just a short time left.
I only tell you because you might want to be saved...but it is a strong righteous principle that no pressure will be brought on anyone who doesn't want to embrace it fully...because after the Judgement there will be no oppression and no compulsion to organise ourselves in any way other than in the way our good health and welfare demands of us...and like the angels we will want to thank our God and his son for ever more for our salvation.
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What I see is that evil has had dominance over this planet from the year dot and Jesus came and taught us how to live with evil and not be part of it...and it works. So ok Jesus was crucified by evil but he knew he would be because evil has no compassion and will not allow anyone to breech their oppression...but Almighty God isn't anyone...it served his purpose and those who have sought his help in the way Jesus taught us...accurately...also knows that the only compassion in this world today stems from Jesus' teaching and these will inherit the Earth because evil, now, has just a short time left.
I only tell you because you might want to be saved...but it is a strong righteous principle that no pressure will be brought on anyone who doesn't want to embrace it fully...because after the Judgement there will be no oppression and no compulsion to organise ourselves in any way other than in the way our good health and welfare demands of us...and like the angels we will want to thank our God and his son for ever more for our salvation.
o kay Nick Ill just leave you to it because you're not making any sense.
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What I see is that evil has had dominance over this planet from the year dot and Jesus came and taught us how to live with evil and not be part of it...and it works. So ok Jesus was crucified by evil but he knew he would be because evil has no compassion and will not allow anyone to breech their oppression...but Almighty God isn't anyone...it served his purpose and those who have sought his help in the way Jesus taught us...accurately...also knows that the only compassion in this world today stems from Jesus' teaching and these will inherit the Earth because evil, now, has just a short time left.
I only tell you because you might want to be saved...but it is a strong righteous principle that no pressure will be brought on anyone who doesn't want to embrace it fully...because after the Judgement there will be no oppression and no compulsion to organise ourselves in any way other than in the way our good health and welfare demands of us...and like the angels we will want to thank our God and his son for ever more for our salvation.
You believe god the 'scientist' created everything, so it must have created evil too. Therefore human wrongdoing is all down to god!
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You believe god the 'scientist' created everything, so it must have created evil too. Therefore human wrongdoing is all down to god!
According to Nick and the like , god made the universe and everything in it, except the things they don't like, of course.
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The love in action that some of these children generate in others is something I find extremely moving, quite uplifting really. I see God in that.
This is classic confirmation bias. It would be just as valid to say you see God in the suffering. After all, he created suffering.
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According to Nick and the like , god made the universe and everything in it, except the things they don't like, of course.
Of course! ::)
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where is your loving god tonight?
If you were really watching 'Children in Need' on Friday, Walter, you would have seen him in the actions of hundreds of thousands of people who give up their time to help others, to raise funds, to care for people. Before you get too complacent, perhaps you can answer this question "Where was your god when the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, releasing lethal does of radiation and heat energy?" Science has managed to resolve some of the issues around nuclear (and not merely weapons), but by no means all - are you going to argue that this had nothing to do with science?
Your 'loving god' should have prevented the Children from being in need in the first place, if it exists, and could help!
So, your previous stance that people should take responsibility for their actions seems to be a bit in tatters, Floo. Some of the folk shown were in the condition they were because of the actions of other people or (iirc, in one case) their own. Most of the others were suffering from conditions that will inevitably exist within a dynamic natural setting - mutations, etc. After all, isn't mutation a core necessity for evolution?, in the same way that earthquakes, floods, etc are often the prerequisite for a dynamic nature?
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like Noah's flood,
A theological story is very good at winding you up, Floo ;)
As for getting a young woman pregnant, what other way could he have become human yet remain divine?
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how do you know its accurate?
Generally, the answer to this kind of question is 'experience, through study, through sharing such knowledge'. Note, that isn't an exhaustive list but covers the main aspects. Talking to scientists, that seems to be a good summary of their understanding as to why science is accurate, as well.
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A theological story is very good at winding you up, Floo ;)
As for getting a young woman pregnant, what other way could he have become human yet remain divine?
Surely omnipotent God could easily have magicked up a divine human.
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well thank god for the sick
Well, thank God for such as you and your wonderfully humorous posts, Walter. Lest you can't or won't understand that, I'm simply pointing out that people of faith don't hold to that kind of thinking, even if you do.
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Certainly, Christians should be angry - if we claim to be following Him, that is. Apparently, last night's shindig raised one eighth of the amount it will cost to renovate Elizabeth Windsor's house. Apparently, Royalty in need is more important to the government than children.
Good post, Jim, though it does earn quite a lot of money for the nation - through tourism. I'd certainly like to see HRH agree to pay at least part of the cost from her own coffers - but the government may not have given her the option.
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You believe god the 'scientist' created everything, so it must have created evil too. Therefore human wrongdoing is all down to god!
Floo, scientifically, things have the potential to go or develop in more than one way. Often, that potential is activated by differing conditions, and result in different outcomes. To take one example, your claim here would seem to suggest scientists who investigated and studied the make-up of the atom and its characteristics are to blame for the atomic bomb and subsequent nuclear weapons.
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Surely omnipotent God could easily have magicked up a divine human.
How? You're making the suggestion - give us some clues (remember that said divine human had to fulfil a number of specific characteristics that could be seen to be the case by the Jews).
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According to Nick and the like , god made the universe and everything in it, except the things they don't like, of course.
Which Nick would that be, Walter? ;)
If anything, God can be found guilty of allowing the potential for evil, by giving humanity freedom of choice; he can't be accused of creating it, though.
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If you were really watching 'Children in Need' on Friday, Walter, you would have seen him in the actions of hundreds of thousands of people who give up their time to help others, to raise funds, to care for people. Before you get too complacent, perhaps you can answer this question "Where was your god when the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, releasing lethal does of radiation and heat energy?" Science has managed to resolve some of the issues around nuclear (and not merely weapons), but by no means all - are you going to argue that this had nothing to do with science?
of course not , it had everything to do with science but it was the government who commissioned it and deployed it.
Besides that what a pathetic comeback, if your god exists why does he allow such suffering .
I would suggest either your god is not there or is sadistic bustard with a sick sense of humour
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Which Nick would that be, Walter? ;)
If anything, God can be found guilty of allowing the potential for evil, by giving humanity freedom of choice; he can't be accused of creating it, though.
doesn't matter how many times you roll out that old chestnut its as wrong this time as the first time some lame brained apologist coined it when Adam was a lad.
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doesn't matter how many times you roll out that old chestnut its as wrong this time as the first time some lame brained apologist coined it when Adam was a lad.
At least its an explanation - never seen anything even approaching an explanation from anyone on your side of the fence. Until you (collectively) can produce an explanation that actually fits the situation logically, I'll reserve judgement.
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of course not , it had everything to do with science but it was the government who commissioned it and deployed it.
So, you have acknowledged the principle I was trying to get at - that the source isn't necessarily the cause.
Besides that what a pathetic comeback, if your god exists why does he allow such suffering .
It may be a pathetic comeback in your eyes, but again you haven't dealt with the freedom of choice issue. I'm sure that he could have stopped all suffering but, as I've pointed out on a number of occasions - for instance in response to similar comments from Floo - he is a God who has given freedom of choice and isn't going to overrule this at every turn. Either you have your 'sadistic bustard', who heals, saves, protects secures some but not all, or you have a system whereby every mistake we make has a damaging effect on the people amongst whom we live and work, and (in effect) they share the punishment.
Note that I'm not remotely suggesting that the division is anything to do with belief or otherwise, as both believers and non-believers get rained on, shined on, bullied, treated unfairly, wrongly accused, mistreated, ....
I would suggest either your god is not there or is sadistic bustard with a sick sense of humour
In my view, he is both 'here', and an amazingly loving and caring being with a truly wicked sense of humour. ('Wicked' used in the modern sense)
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So, you have acknowledged the principle I was trying to get at - that the source isn't necessarily the cause.
It may be a pathetic comeback in your eyes, but again you haven't dealt with the freedom of choice issue. I'm sure that he could have stopped all suffering but, as I've pointed out on a number of occasions - for instance in response to similar comments from Floo - he is a God who has given freedom of choice and isn't going to overrule this at every turn. Either you have your 'sadistic bustard', who heals, saves, protects secures some but not all, or you have a system whereby every mistake we make has a damaging effect on the people amongst whom we live and work, and (in effect) they share the punishment.
Note that I'm not remotely suggesting that the division is anything to do with belief or otherwise, as both believers and non-believers get rained on, shined on, bullied, treated unfairly, wrongly accused, mistreated, ....
In my view, he is both 'here', and an amazingly loving and caring being with a truly wicked sense of humour. ('Wicked' used in the modern sense)
Hope there is no point in me arguing with you ,its pointless. Your delusion has blinded you and I find it very sad . Your judgment is permanently flawed to the extent that your view of reality is so skewed that you make a ridiculous defence for your god to the extent that it appears to have the logic of a child to someone like me.
I wish you well.
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How?
He allegedly created the Universe, a mere human being should not be beyond his power.
You're making the suggestion - give us some clues (remember that said divine human had to fulfil a number of specific characteristics that could be seen to be the case by the Jews).
Jesus fails to meet the specific characteristics of the Messiah. Doing away with a human mother as well as a human father wouldn't alter Jesus' qualifications significantly.
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He allegedly created the Universe, a mere human being should not be beyond his power.
Jesus fails to meet the specific characteristics of the Messiah. Doing away with a human mother as well as a human father wouldn't alter Jesus' qualifications significantly.
Jesus never failed to meet the CHARACTERISTICS he was without sin. Got proof he wasn't?
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Jesus never failed to meet the CHARACTERISTICS he was without sin. Got proof he wasn't?
dum-de-dum-de-dum
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Jesus never failed to meet the CHARACTERISTICS he was without sin. Got proof he wasn't?
We are all without sin. For sin to exist, God would have to exist. Got any proof that he does?
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Jesus never failed to meet the CHARACTERISTICS he was without sin. Got proof he wasn't?
The Bible gives the impression he was just human like the rest of us, and far from perfect!
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We are all without sin. For sin to exist, God would have to exist. Got any proof that he does?
You mean you never have done anything you consider to be wrong?
Do you need proof of God to know you have done wrong?
So you really haven't a argument? You see sin is committing adultery etc are you saying it isn't wrong to do this or steal, lie and cheat?
We are on the same page now...
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Hope there is no point in me arguing with you ,its pointless. Your delusion has blinded you and I find it very sad . Your judgment is permanently flawed to the extent that your view of reality is so skewed that you make a ridiculous defence for your god to the extent that it appears to have the logic of a child to someone like me.
I wish you well.
Sorry to hear that you can't cope with my arguments, Walter; mind you, if all you can do is put the problem down to 'delusion' it suggests that there are a number of deluded scientists, mathematicians, historians, academics, handymen and women, lawyers, sailors, sports people, etc., etc.
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Sorry to hear that you can't cope with my arguments, Walter; mind you, if all you can do is put the problem down to 'delusion' it suggests that there are a number of deluded scientists, mathematicians, historians, academics, handymen and women, lawyers, sailors, sports people, etc., etc.
Hope
you are right, there's millions of em everywhere.
and therein lies the problem