Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: 2Corrie on November 29, 2016, 10:14:10 PM
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If the death of a human can atone for your sins, then why not atone for your own? What need for a saviour?
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As I understand it the Unitarians generally do not believe in the doctrine of Atonement. So, why the question?
http://www.religionresourcesonline.org/religious-beliefs-wiki/Summary_of_Unitarianism
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If the death of a human can atone for your sins, then why not atone for your own? What need for a saviour?
As mere humans, we can never emerge from the punishment.
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If the death of a human can atone for your sins, then why not atone for your own? What need for a saviour?
If we could atone fully for our own sins, Jesus need not have suffered torture and death. We needed a saviour. I do not pretend to know the full reasoning, but trust that this is what was needed, otherwise the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus would be trivialised
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Do we have any Unitarians on forum? I know we have those who profess to be Christian but reject the core Christian doctrine of the Trinity, but are they members of the Unitarian religion?
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As mere humans, we can never emerge from the punishment.
We are the real gods!
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We are the real gods!
Fortunately, the Biblical God has nothing on the unpleasantness of humans.
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If the death of a human can atone for your sins, then why not atone for your own? What need for a saviour?
You may not have noticed 2Corrie...but if you look around yourself, especially at the hypermarket you will see many people who are overweight, many hobbling, many with all sorts of genetic ailments and many who are short tempered, harressed and looking for bargains which often aren't bargains at all just clever marketing...in other words they are being manipulated by devious forces.
The Holy Bible tells us we were genetically perfect when first created and that by our sins we are now much less than perfect...in fact...by our sins death came into the world...but Jesus taught us how to put those sins on hold for a while while we repair from the damage caused by our sins. It means following him accurately.
Following him accurately means changing our attitudes and working with a good attitude towards everything we get involved in. No objections there surely?? If we try to follow Jesus we are following a very advanced science...we are paying back for our sins...we are bringing the same genetic altering force alive which moulded and shaped evolution...and also which hastens cellular repair when living cells get damaged. When we follow Jesus we are doing this genetic alteration purposely in a controlled and responsible way rather than leaving it to accidental nature which has a tendency to corrupt the genetic code causing enormous health problems.
Yet we are ignoring the advice of the most wonderful scientist who has ever lived which is...follow Jesus, and never die.
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Fortunately, the Biblical God has nothing on the unpleasantness of humans.
How can you possibly know this Hope?
ippy
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How can you possibly know this Hope?
ippy
In a number of ways, ippy. As a human being myself, I see the horrendous way in which humans treat each other. By reading the Bible, I see what an incredibly loving being God is, and I have experienced some of that care and love on a number of occasions.
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You may not have noticed 2Corrie ...
Are you a Unitarian, NM? Just wondering, since you have queried a question from 2C to Unitarians.
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Are you a Unitarian, NM? Just wondering, since you have queried a question from 2C to Unitarians.
Up until an hour ago I would have said...'what's one of those' Hope...but, out of courtesy to the theme of this thread I took a quick look on Google which says it is someone who doesn't accept the trinity, in the form that it represents three facets of one being, so, on that basis, I would have to say yes.
My understanding says that Almighty God is the highest authority in the universe...a living representation of all the spiritual laws that express themselves in the highest scientific laws achievable.
Jesus Christ, by virtue of his righteous work here on planet Earth, made himself an equal to Almighty God but declined that status by simply insisting he remained the servant of that one true God. He now sits on the right hand of God just as the Holy Bible tells us. The Holy Spirit is the first primary form of God's spiritual nature...Jesus' spiritual nature and, indeed, our spiritual nature, if we choose to fashion our own spirit on righteousness...if we don't then we cannot be Holy in any shape or form and the Holy Spirit can't possibly guide us in the way righteousness allows.
Remember...all the angels in Heaven are Holy Spirits too and will only follow the dictates of righteousness...God's science of everything.
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In a number of ways, ippy. As a human being myself, I see the horrendous way in which humans treat each other. By reading the Bible, I see what an incredibly loving being God is, and I have experienced some of that care and love on a number of occasions.
I suspect we're back to this thing you really think you can see, never mind, glass half full or half empty; I see plenty of human kindness where most of us struggle to make this world a bit of a better place.
Their's no need to have unsupportable superstitious beliefs to do good deeds.
ippy
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Fortunately, the Biblical God has nothing on the unpleasantness of humans.
You obviously haven't read the Bible, god has all the worst human characteristics and none of the best, it even got a young unmarried girl up the duff! :o
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If the death of a human can atone for your sins, then why not atone for your own? What need for a saviour?
Where does the term 'Unitarian' and 'Trinitarian' originate or come from?
The list of what they believe exists because?
But when we look at the NT and the confirmation of the OT, neither is found in the teachings of the Prophets.
Christians are Jews that believe in the Messiah.
Christ said, " God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish.
Where does the 'Trinitarian' or 'Unitarian' list of beliefs exist in that truth?
Believers belief in God the Father, The Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ.
What they also know is God put his words in Christs mouth.
You Corrie, like many here take something like the lists of beliefs of what a 'Unitarian' and 'Trinitarian' sre and make it part of something which it is not.
Jesus said:- " I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the FATHER but by me."
Not a set of manmade rules and beliefs simply knowing Jesus is the Son of God. What if what you wrote and others keeps people from entering in by the true gate Jesus Christ?
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The bible is clear that as all men are condemned by sin because of the one man, Adam. That is had to be by one man all are saved and not condemned. But as with Adam they have to choose what God says and obey it or ignore and disobey.
Christ was not born of sinful flesh, hence the virgin birth. He was born with a human nature but unlike Adam he chose to obey the words of God not the devil.
One man brought death and so One man brings life. Adam sinned to bring us death. Christ did not sin but paid the penalty of suffering the death in the place of all mankind that Adam brought on us. So the punishment for sins is completely paid in the sacrifice of the body and spilling of the blood of Christ.
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The bible is clear that as all men are condemned by sin because of the one man, Adam. That is had to be by one man all are saved and not condemned. But as with Adam they have to choose what God says and obey it or ignore and disobey.
Christ was not born of sinful flesh, hence the virgin birth. He was born with a human nature but unlike Adam he chose to obey the words of God not the devil.
One man brought death and so One man brings life. Adam sinned to bring us death. Christ did not sin but paid the penalty of suffering the death in the place of all mankind that Adam brought on us. So the punishment for sins is completely paid in the sacrifice of the body and spilling of the blood of Christ.
Lovely Biblical sentiments Sassy in both posts. Not much to say really except that Jesus is always ready to forgive sin for those who repent in a sincere way but he doesn't condone all the evil in the world by forgiving sin for those who flagrantly abuse righteousness...they are falling deeper and deeper into their sins and ultimately will perish just as John says in Revelation 21:8...and time is pressing.
This only makes sense when we realise that even now we each have the ability to be resurrected providing we follow Jesus accurately...as he alone taught us and how we interpret his word ourselves...knowing that even if we get it wrong first time it will steer us to the truth via its many different links in the many different Biblical verses. This is deliberate because it gets us thinking and mental agility is an essential requirement of improving our health and lifting ourselves out of the quagmire of sin.
It is impossible to make a silk purse out of a sows ear and we must bear this in mind when quoting righteousness to those who refuse to listen.
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Where does the term 'Unitarian' and 'Trinitarian' originate or come from? The list of what they believe exists because? But when we look at the NT and the confirmation of the OT, neither is found in the teachings of the Prophets. Christians are Jews that believe in the Messiah. Christ said, " God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish. Where does the 'Trinitarian' or 'Unitarian' list of beliefs exist in that truth? Believers belief in God the Father, The Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ. What they also know is God put his words in Christs mouth. You Corrie, like many here take something like the lists of beliefs of what a 'Unitarian' and 'Trinitarian' sre and make it part of something which it is not. Jesus said:- " I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the FATHER but by me." Not a set of manmade rules and beliefs simply knowing Jesus is the Son of God. What if what you wrote and others keeps people from entering in by the true gate Jesus Christ?
Very, very interesting use of John, there. His frequent use of 'I am' - both when Jesus declares His purpose, as in here, and when He declares His identity - precipitating an attempted punishment for blasphemy by Jews well versed in Scripture - and the proscription on taking part of the Name as one's own. The following link is a bit in depth - I try to avoid being overtly theological; however it's worth a look when exploring 'ego eimi' in Johanine writing - and it also helps us think less in English, and more in the language in which John was written. http://vintage.aomin.org/EGO.html
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The bible is clear that as all men are condemned by sin because of the one man, Adam. That is had to be by one man all are saved and not condemned. But as with Adam they have to choose what God says and obey it or ignore and disobey.
Christ was not born of sinful flesh, hence the virgin birth. He was born with a human nature but unlike Adam he chose to obey the words of God not the devil.
One man brought death and so One man brings life. Adam sinned to bring us death. Christ did not sin but paid the penalty of suffering the death in the place of all mankind that Adam brought on us. So the punishment for sins is completely paid in the sacrifice of the body and spilling of the blood of Christ.
If that was true it proves the god character is a nasty psycho, as it set Adam and Eve up!
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That is a story created to illustrate in a pictorial way (typically Jewish), early man and woman's relationship with God and their decisions, floo!
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Very, very interesting use of John, there. His frequent use of 'I am' - both when Jesus declares His purpose, as in here, and when He declares His identity - precipitating an attempted punishment for blasphemy by Jews well versed in Scripture - and the proscription on taking part of the Name as one's own. The following link is a bit in depth - I try to avoid being overtly theological; however it's worth a look when exploring 'ego eimi' in Johanine writing - and it also helps us think less in English, and more in the language in which John was written. http://vintage.aomin.org/EGO.html
Thankyou for the link Anchorman. I would have to agree with the author's conclusions.
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Not a set of manmade rules and beliefs simply knowing Jesus is the Son of God. What if what you wrote and others keeps people from entering in by the true gate Jesus Christ?
What if indeed! We will give an account for our answers to the question "who do you say I am".
We both proclaim the Son of God, but what is the nature of the Son of God?
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What if indeed! We will give an account for our answers to the question "who do you say I am".
We both proclaim the Son of God, but what is the nature of the Son of God?
The only authority which answers this question is the Gospels. I, Sassy or you 2Corrie can try and guide another but for accuracy we must take in the truth of the Gospels...There we are told plainly that Jesus Christ is the son of the one, true God and many verses tell us this as well so it is a little unwise to twist that reasoning to make it mean something else. Now...Almighty God has a Living Water that he is going to lead us to in the last days so we should try and understand what that living water is. Jesus Christ's teaching can never be changed so we must expect this invisible source of material to be somehow codified within his accurate righteous teaching...That is my stance anyway and following that reasoning as a part of my Bible Study has led me to some wonderful knowledge that appears to have escaped the machinations of those who profess to be experts in all fields of knowledge...but that isn't my fault.
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That is a story created to illustrate in a pictorial way (typically Jewish), early man and woman's relationship with God and their decisions, floo!
Brownie, I don't mean to be rude but sometimes your posts directed at me are like teaching your granny to suck eggs! I don't believe for one second the story of Adam and Eve is factual, my post is directed at those who believe the Biblical stories to be true in every detail.
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The only authority which answers this question is the Gospels. I, Sassy or you 2Corrie can try and guide another but for accuracy we must take in the truth of the Gospels...There we are told plainly that Jesus Christ is the son of the one, true God and many verses tell us this as well so it is a little unwise to twist that reasoning to make it mean something else. Now...Almighty God has a Living Water that he is going to lead us to in the last days so we should try and understand what that living water is. Jesus Christ's teaching can never be changed so we must expect this invisible source of material to be somehow codified within his accurate righteous teaching...That is my stance anyway and following that reasoning as a part of my Bible Study has led me to some wonderful knowledge that appears to have escaped the machinations of those who profess to be experts in all fields of knowledge...but that isn't my fault.
So how would you explain the 'Ego eimi' statements in John, then, NM?
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So how would you explain the 'Ego eimi' statements in John, then, NM?
I am sorry Anchorman but I don't see what you see in the words of John.
You must remember that Jesus was the exact replica of his father and his work was exclusively to deliver God's word and that word is righteousness. The beauty of this being two separate beings is that each are bearing witness for the other, which means that Almighty God isn't alone in his righteous stance...others are able to grasp the importance of it as well, and Jesus, by being born sinless, retaining his sinlessness and being reborn from crucifixion because of his sinlessness tells us plainly that fleshy beings such as you and I can do something similar too, and earn similar attributes. In fact Jesus says that in death he went down to the place we all go to in death but because of his righteous nature he was able to return...be resurrected...and this tells us we can be reborn as well, but it is in our own hands...we have to follow Jesus accurately and thereby, never see death. Those who don't have any righteous strength won't return via this efficient responsible route and we know that many just get jammed in that place awaiting return prior to God's Judgement...and many of these will go to the fiery lake of sulphur if they ignore their last opportunity for repentance.
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Quote from: Floo on Today at 02:02:41 PM
Brownie, I don't mean to be rude but sometimes your posts directed at me are like teaching your granny to suck eggs! I don't believe for one second the story of Adam and Eve is factual, my post is directed at those who believe the Biblical stories to be true in every detail.
Oh gosh, I honestly didn't mean to come over like that. I am so sorry.
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Anchor, you used the term 'Ego eimi'.
I understood that to mean, "I have been", or "I was before", when strictly translated from Greek. So do we know, precisely, what Jesus meant?
I am more than comfortable to believe in the Blessed Trinity but can see it is a debatable issue, I deliberately won't say, "Controversial", because there is no need for that to be the case.
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Quote from: Floo on Today at 02:02:41 PM
Brownie, I don't mean to be rude but sometimes your posts directed at me are like teaching your granny to suck eggs! I don't believe for one second the story of Adam and Eve is factual, my post is directed at those who believe the Biblical stories to be true in every detail.
Oh gosh, I honestly didn't mean to come over like that. I am so sorry.
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Anchor, you used the term 'Ego eimi'.
I understood that to mean, "I have been", or "I was before", when strictly translated from Greek. So do we know, precisely, what Jesus meant?
I am more than comfortable to believe in the Blessed Trinity but can see it is a debatable issue, I deliberately won't say, "Controversial", because there is no need for that to be the case.
Don't worry if we were perfect we would be very hard to live with. That is one thing I certainly don't need to concern myself with, as perfection and me is an oxymoron! ;D
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Brownie: There are a few possibilities in the 'ego eimi' sayings of Christ in John. When one looks at them, they follow typical Jewish teaching rote modals of the time - Jesus is clearly trying to make His point very firmly in a way that His hearers would not mistake. All the more jarring when He comes out with the "Before Abraham was, I AM" in John 8. There can be no real ambiguity there. He clearly takes upon Himself the Name - the Name that devout jews would not even utter. In taking the Name, He implicitly takes on the full personhood attached to it - in other words, He claims divinity. Since He made it clear that there is only One God; in claiming the divine Name for Himself, he must have believed Himself to be God. OK, atheists and non Christians are very free to dispute His claim; however the claim remains - a core doctrine of the faith.
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I don't see it that way. Jesus saying, "Before Abraham, I am", just says to me that he was planned before Abraham; if Jesus is God's idea of Himself as a human being, it fits that 'the idea' was always with God - but doesn't make 'the idea' God. Jesus was a created being.
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Brownie: There are a few possibilities in the 'ego eimi' sayings of Christ in John. When one looks at them, they follow typical Jewish teaching rote modals of the time - Jesus is clearly trying to make His point very firmly in a way that His hearers would not mistake. All the more jarring when He comes out with the "Before Abraham was, I AM" in John 8. There can be no real ambiguity there. He clearly takes upon Himself the Name - the Name that devout jews would not even utter. In taking the Name, He implicitly takes on the full personhood attached to it - in other words, He claims divinity. Since He made it clear that there is only One God; in claiming the divine Name for Himself, he must have believed Himself to be God. OK, atheists and non Christians are very free to dispute His claim; however the claim remains - a core doctrine of the faith.
Naturally I must take you to task here Anchorman. The key to righteousness is believing in a simplistic way what we are told by those who explicitly teach the truth.
In the beginning was the 'word'. The word is a particular expression...it is a profound understanding which without Jesus would be almost impossible to understand. Jesus was that word made flesh so that Jesus was delivering righteousness exactly as Almighty God had taught his Heavenly subjects of whom Jesus was one.
So you might ask...what is the substance behind Almighty God's word of righteousness??
John tells us...It is the light of the world...or, put another way...total understanding of the entire universe.
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the term 'Ego eimi'.
I understood that to mean, "I have been", or "I was before", when strictly translated from Greek. So do we know, precisely, what Jesus meant?
There are some who believe that the writer of the 4th Gospel was a Hellenist Jew who was steeped in the Logos philosophy and is a possible reason why it doesn't correspond too well with the other three Gospels. I believe that 'Ego eimi' is present tense and means 'I am being'. It could be that 'being' represented the eternal state which is always present and the God as Supreme Being is omnipresent. I doubt whether a Jesus would declare himself to be Supreme. If he did then he must have spent a lot of time talking to himself (like you? ;) ). Are you simply being or are you thinking, emoting, talking, walking etc. etc. which is temporal?
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Smashing, ekim.
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In taking the Name, He implicitly takes on the full personhood attached to it - in other words, He claims divinity. Since He made it clear that there is only One God; in claiming the divine Name for Himself, he must have believed Himself to be God. OK, atheists and non Christians are very free to dispute His claim; however the claim remains - a core doctrine of the faith.
Gor blimey: you of all people taking John's gospel as accurate historical reportage. No doubt that was the message that 'John' himself wished to convey, and therefore made up some poetic speeches for Jesus to say that conveyed this. But even there the author (or authors) of 'John' is (are) not consistent. Doesn't this gospel also have Jesus saying "my Father in heaven is greater than I"?
All a bit of private grief, though.
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There are some who believe that the writer of the 4th Gospel was a Hellenist Jew who was steeped in the Logos philosophy and is a possible reason why it doesn't correspond too well with the other three Gospels. I believe that 'Ego eimi' is present tense and means 'I am being'. It could be that 'being' represented the eternal state which is always present and the God as Supreme Being is omnipresent. I doubt whether a Jesus would declare himself to be Supreme. If he did then he must have spent a lot of time talking to himself (like you? ;) ). Are you simply being or are you thinking, emoting, talking, walking etc. etc. which is temporal?
ekim, there is an alternative explanation for why the 4th Gospel doesn't "... correspond too well with the other three Gospels."
Not only was it written later than the Synoptics, it was also written in order to correct a number of misinterpretations and even heresies that had become common. In other words, it had a very different purpose to the Synoptics.
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Gor blimey: you of all people taking John's gospel as accurate historical reportage. No doubt that was the message that 'John' himself wished to convey, and therefore made up some poetic speeches for Jesus to say that conveyed this. But even there the author (or authors) of 'John' is (are) not consistent. Doesn't this gospel also have Jesus saying "my Father in heaven is greater than I"?
But what does he mean when he says 'greater', DU? The Greek word used is μεῖζων.
By the way, he doesn't use the term 'I' but 'all'. Eugene Peterson, in his 'The Message' translates the sentence thus:
The Father who put them under my care is so much greater than the Destroyer and Thief.
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I'd kinda go with Hope here, DU; From what I know of the history of John, and its' universal acceptance by diverse Christian groups throughout the area by the end of the first century, its authorship was accepted, its' content deemed in accordance with the message preached, not only by Paul, but from Jerusalem and later Antioch.
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I'd kinda go with Hope here, DU; From what I know of the history of John, and its' universal acceptance by diverse Christian groups throughout the area by the end of the first century, its authorship was accepted, its' content deemed in accordance with the message preached, not only by Paul, but from Jerusalem and later Antioch.
The best way to interpret the Holy Bible is to interpret its spiritual message first...All through the Bible we hear about righteousness and that sin violates that righteousness. We certainly get the impression that Almighty God and Jesus are delivering a profound message, hard to understand, but by putting into practice what is being said we begin to realise that God is talking to us scientifically.
That one message that is certainly present throughout the Gospels is that we each have the ability to upbuild a righteous spirit as Jesus said and we must use it righteously...like in the Biblical statement...no one can speak to God unless in spirit and in truth.
The books in the Bible then must carry the theme of righteous good order regardless of who wrote them and John certainly has righteous integrity.
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The best way to interpret the Bible is to question everything in it, and to put it to the probability test. If it isn't probable, it is unlikely to have happened as stated.
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The best way to interpret the Holy Bible is to interpret its spiritual message first...All through the Bible we hear about righteousness and that sin violates that righteousness. We certainly get the impression that Almighty God and Jesus are delivering a profound message, hard to understand, but by putting into practice what is being said we begin to realise that God is talking to us scientifically.
That one message that is certainly present throughout the Gospels is that we each have the ability to upbuild a righteous spirit as Jesus said and we must use it righteously...like in the Biblical statement...no one can speak to God unless in spirit and in truth.
The books in the Bible then must carry the theme of righteous good order regardless of who wrote them and John certainly has righteous integrity.
Eh?
What has that got to do with the historicity - or otherwise - of John's Gospel?
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Eh?
What has that got to do with the historicity - or otherwise - of John's Gospel?
Sorry Anchorman...I just noticed that you seemed to be ganging up on John without realising that his word was equally important as the other NT writers.
John said that in the beginning was the 'word' and this is so vitally important in placing the otherwise missing piece in the jig-saw shared between the OT and the NT and is such a vital cog in the wheel of Jesus' teaching that I thought it was worth a mention.
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Anchorman, NM is the authority on all things Biblical. A herd of pigs have just flown passed my window! ;D
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Sorry Anchorman...I just noticed that you seemed to be ganging up on John without realising that his word was equally important as the other NT writers.
John said that in the beginning was the 'word' and this is so vitally important in placing the otherwise missing piece in the jig-saw shared between the OT and the NT and is such a vital cog in the wheel of Jesus' teaching that I thought it was worth a mention.
Eh?
Where have I 'ganged up on John'?
I've never disputed the fourth Gospel as part of the Scriptures - far from it!
Unlike you, for example, I quote the COMPLete verse -
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS god!
(Emphasis mine).
Note that there is no 'a' there, as in the corrupt NWT, NM.
The 'logos' was not 'a god'. 'from god', 'symbolising God', but God.
John, as they say, nails it. Christ Jesus, the 'Logos' - was. and is, God.
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Eh?
Where have I 'ganged up on John'?
I've never disputed the fourth Gospel as part of the Scriptures - far from it!
Unlike you, for example, I quote the COMPLete verse -
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS god!
(Emphasis mine).
Note that there is no 'a' there, as in the corrupt NWT, NM.
The 'logos' was not 'a god'. 'from god', 'symbolising God', but God.
John, as they say, nails it. Christ Jesus, the 'Logos' - was. and is, God.
The ' word' of God is righteousness Anchorman and Jesus was/is that word made flesh. I may have misread the ganging-up on John...but felt there was a valuable point to be made there anyway.
When attacking JWs please note you are having a go at a group that take Jesus' righteous teaching very serioucly indeed. They too might be in error but it is a question of whose is the greatest error??
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In the beginning was the logos, and the logos was toward God, and God was the logos.
It depends upon how logos is translated. It can mean creative principle, divine wisdom, both of which were seen as divine qualities. I should have thought that the God in question would not have had a beginning and that the creative principle initiated the 'beginning'. I have my doubts that Jesus considered himself as God, even if the author of the 4th Gospel thought him so.
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Brownie: There are a few possibilities in the 'ego eimi' sayings of Christ in John. When one looks at them, they follow typical Jewish teaching rote modals of the time - Jesus is clearly trying to make His point very firmly in a way that His hearers would not mistake. All the more jarring when He comes out with the "Before Abraham was, I AM" in John 8. There can be no real ambiguity there.
Says WHO?
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
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Jesus is not saying he is, I AM as in God saying this to Moses. He is clearly telling the Jews who questioned him knowing what Abrahan did, that he was not old enough to have seen Abraham. But he said before Abraham, he was. It would clearly denote capitals if referring to the words God used.
So Jesus is NOT saying he is God or referring to himself as I am but saying he existed before Abraham.
King James Bible
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
He clearly takes upon Himself the Name - the Name that devout jews would not even utter.
No he doesn't he clearly states he existed before Abraham. Not the same thing as you twisting it to mean something it doesn't.
In taking the Name, He implicitly takes on the full personhood attached to it - in other words, He claims divinity.
That which proceeds the verse shows that Jesus in that one sentence does not in anyway claim or make himself to be God.
Since He made it clear that there is only One God; in claiming the divine Name for Himself, he must have believed Himself to be God.
You see where you get it all wrong now. NOWHERE THERE OR ANYWHERE DOES JESUS CLAIM TO BE THE FATHER GOD.
John 17:3.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
So stop repeating false teachings. Christ in that one sentence cannot and does not say what you put into his mouth. He is clear from his teaching that the One True God sent him.
OK, atheists and non Christians are very free to dispute His claim; however the claim remains - a core doctrine of the faith.
Rubbish, there is no truth and no doctrine at all in your claim. Because Christ has made it clear God sent him.
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In the beginning was the logos, and the logos was toward God, and God was the logos.
It depends upon how logos is translated. It can mean creative principle, divine wisdom, both of which were seen as divine qualities. I should have thought that the God in question would not have had a beginning and that the creative principle initiated the 'beginning'. I have my doubts that Jesus considered himself as God, even if the author of the 4th Gospel thought him so.
John didn't think Jesus was God. He did know that Jesus was God-like...so much so that they were virtually identical...but not actually the same being. There is so much to be pulled from this knowledge which contradicts so called experts on righteous teaching who seem to say come to them first and they will show you how Jesus is God full stop...when...if we go to Jesus first we have righteousness from its original source...an everlasting teaching of paramount importance in this day and age.
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Says WHO?
Jesus is not saying he is, I AM as in God saying this to Moses. He is clearly telling the Jews who questioned him knowing what Abrahan did, that he was not old enough to have seen Abraham. But he said before Abraham, he was. It would clearly denote capitals if referring to the words God used.
So Jesus is NOT saying he is God or referring to himself as I am but saying he existed before Abraham.No he doesn't he clearly states he existed before Abraham. Not the same thing as you twisting it to mean something it doesn't.
That which proceeds the verse shows that Jesus in that one sentence does not in anyway claim or make himself to be God.
You see where you get it all wrong now. NOWHERE THERE OR ANYWHERE DOES JESUS CLAIM TO BE THE FATHER GOD.
John 17:3.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
So stop repeating false teachings. Christ in that one sentence cannot and does not say what you put into his mouth. He is clear from his teaching that the One True God sent him.
Rubbish, there is no truth and no doctrine at all in your claim. Because Christ has made it clear God sent him.
Just one point I'd like to make here Sassy...which might clear up one point at least. Jesus lived in Heaven before he was spiritually delivered to Mary. There was no need for him to come here to planet Earth and grow up alongside us but he chose to fulfil one of God's requirements...to deliver righteousness to the inhabitants on the Earth. By doing it so perfectly he made himself God-like...higher than the angels in Heaven...but the Holy Bible tells it best...as long as we read it accurately and not via iniquity which tries to populize the difficult concepts.
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Jesus lived in Heaven before he was spiritually delivered to Mary.
Where in the Bible does it say that?
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Jesus lived in Heaven before he was spiritually delivered to Mary.
Where in the Bible does it say that?
Two or three places...when jesus says...I am not of this world and also when he said...Before Abrahan, I am.
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Aha! The "Ego Eimi" again. Thanks, NM!
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Aha! The "Ego Eimi" again. Thanks, NM!
I think you should read the whole of that section of John and try not to avoid the point where Jesus says that he honours his father. It is a little like saying identical twins are just one person and refusing to acknowledge the other.
Now...are you refusing to acknowledge Jesus or Almighty God...in righteous terms this is a very serious point.
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Eh? Christ Jesus - God Incarnate - is Lord of my life.
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Just one point I'd like to make here Sassy...which might clear up one point at least. Jesus lived in Heaven before he was spiritually delivered to Mary. There was no need for him to come here to planet Earth and grow up alongside us but he chose to fulfil one of God's requirements...to deliver righteousness to the inhabitants on the Earth. By doing it so perfectly he made himself God-like...higher than the angels in Heaven...but the Holy Bible tells it best...as long as we read it accurately and not via iniquity which tries to populize the difficult concepts.
Did you miss my earlier post? In it Christ is shown to say:-
King James Bible
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
[/b]
Christ had to be fully human, surely you understood this?
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Eh? Christ Jesus - God Incarnate - is Lord of my life.
No! You have to know both the Only true God and Jesus Christ whom the only true God sent to have eternal life making Christ the Lord and the Father known to you.
You throw words about which are powerless and aimless in the great scheme of Gods truth.
If you were sure you belonged to God you would not have written earlier posts I replied to this evening.
In fact, no one worth his salt would have even wrote, let alone admitted to writing what you wrote.
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No! You have to know both the Only true God and Jesus Christ whom the only true God sent to have eternal life making Christ the Lord and the Father known to you.
You throw words about which are powerless and aimless in the great scheme of Gods truth.
If you were sure you belonged to God you would not have written earlier posts I replied to this evening.
In fact, no one worth his salt would have even wrote, let alone admitted to writing what you wrote.
Were you there on the night of 6 September, 1977, when UI surrendered all that I am to Christ?
Were you there when I invited Him into every part of my being to be my Lord and Saviour?
Were you there when I felt a joy beyond words, and His presence which has never left me to this day?
You must have been a fly on my bedroom wall, then.
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Were you there on the night of 6 September, 1977, when UI surrendered all that I am to Christ?
So now you want to make this a competition about who is who in Christ and our heavenly Father.
Jeremiah 1:5. Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.
That is always how it has been with me. God letting me know about himself and Christ from my earliest abilities.
Were you there when I invited Him into every part of my being to be my Lord and Saviour?
The Lord Jesus was already in my life since childhood well over 10 years earlier than you.
Were you there when I felt a joy beyond words, and His presence which has never left me to this day?
You must have been a fly on my bedroom wall, then.
When I was small, I always knew Jesus was the Son of God. It has kept me through many heartaches but the truth is by that
belief in Jesus, I have always known the presence of God. From my earliest times I have always wanted to do the right thing.
Matthew 5:6. Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled.
I personally, through Christ and God find no competition or no establishing of a level of acceptance by what we say or do.
For Christ is all and in all, is the level of communication is all that is required to understand the way to God.
How anyone comes to God through Christ gives them no standing for the righteousness of God in a believer is bought only through the sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ.
Grand gestures to redeem yourself, as within the post is worth absolutely NOTHING when something is pointed out to you which you were blatantly wrong about.
For me to live is Christ. Sometimes we need to know who we are in Christ through the Father, Gods eyes.
Glory belongs to God and he alone deserves all thanks and praise for sending Jesus Christ.
I have made errors in judgement I think 2010 was the worst year. But just as Christ with Peter, " Before the cock crows tonight you will deny me three times." I didn't deny Christ or God but I knew like Peter something would happen before it did.
It took away any reasoning that an atheist can be honest or really believe that people can be good and treat others properly without being in Christ.
It showed me that nothing can separate us from the Love of God and all the world anchors after is hurting others.
I avoid fairweather friends and people who just want to say the right things but have absolutely no power or convictions of what they are saying. But we are also to love at all times. There is something we have other atheists do not.
When all else fails even us. God will stand us up, dust us down and set us back on our way restored and forgiven.
Whilst atheist remain ever more entrenched in their lack of hope and stuck in their false little triumphs. Failures help show that we are still human but they also ensure we grow stronger in the Lord and are sure of our salvation.
The atheist see the sin but cannot see how God sees us. Loved, restored and forgiven.
How or when we came to God through Christ is not about when but who we know in doing so.
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I do not 'make a competition' of anything, Sass. You questioned MY commitment to Christ - who is God Incarnate - and I simply answered your point. Should you wish to further question my acceptance of Christ as my Lord and my God, please take it up in the faith sharing .....with less Jacobean English bits.
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The best way to interpret the Bible is to question everything in it, and to put it to the probability test. If it isn't probable, it is unlikely to have happened as stated.
Do you have any evidence that this is the best way to interpret the Bible, Floo? After all, many eminent sceintists of bygone centuries would have laughed a lot of what we now know to be true out of the metaphorical court, on the grounds that they were not only improbable, they were probably impossible - eg atom splitting, genetic engineering, large swathes of modern medicine and medical care.
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I do not 'make a competition' of anything, Sass. You questioned MY commitment to Christ - who is God Incarnate - and I simply answered your point. Should you wish to further question my acceptance of Christ as my Lord and my God, please take it up in the faith sharing .....with less Jacobean English bits.
Quote from: Anchorman on December 09, 2016, 06:55:15 PM
Eh? Christ Jesus - God Incarnate - is Lord of my life.
No! You have to know both the Only true God and Jesus Christ whom the only true God sent to have eternal life making Christ the Lord and the Father known to you.
You throw words about which are powerless and aimless in the great scheme of Gods truth.
If you were sure you belonged to God you would not have written earlier posts I replied to this evening.
In fact, no one worth his salt would have even wrote, let alone admitted to writing what you wrote.
I didn't question anything... I simply stated the obvious from the bible and also made a statement about the way you use words and make comments which have absolutely no basis in the Scheme of Gods truth. Again... you appear unable to take in the facts.
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".....unable to take in your version of the facts" There, Sass, I'll agree with your (amended) statement.
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I wonder why one or the other of the mods haven't moved this soppy pointless thread over to faith sharing.
ippy
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I wonder why one or the other of the mods haven't moved this soppy pointless thread over to faith sharing.
ippy
because your post is allowed
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I wonder why one or the other of the mods haven't moved this soppy pointless thread over to faith sharing.
ippy
Probably because it isn't a poster sharing their faith, but asking other people about theirs, ippy. If I was to ask you a question about your 'faith' (aka humanism - or should that be atheism ( :))), would you expect to find it on the faith sharing section?
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This load of old nonsense being discussed on this thread wouldn't look the least bit out of place within its own pointless kind on that other catogory.
Why do you think of things like atheism and humanism as faiths/beliefs; strictly speaking I'm not an atheist Hope, you must know, the same as I'm not a non-stamp collector or a non-unicornist.
Just because you've let yourself be taken in big time by all of this religion/faith stuff doesn't mean we all use the various religions/faiths as datums for the measure of our lives, if that's what you want to do fine but don't assume we all think and wish to act in the same way as you.
Atheism and humanism don't really have much to do with faith, if anything at all.
Ippy
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This load of old nonsense being discussed on this thread wouldn't look the least bit out of place within its own pointless kind on that other catogory.
Why do you think of things like atheism and humanism as faiths/beliefs; strictly speaking I'm not an atheist Hope, you must know, the same as I'm not a non-stamp collector or a non-unicornist.
ippy, if you are not interested in matters religious, why are you a member of a 'religion and ethics' discussion board. Aren't there other boards where you can discuss the pros and cons of ethical issues without having to worry about any religious element.
I, on the other hand, have developed my ethical stance at least in part, (though not exclusively) in the context of my belief system, which happens to be Christianity. As has been pointed out a number of times over the years, language usage often outpaces dictionary definitions so, despite the dictionary definition of the term 'belief' often making reference to a deity or God, modern English will use thew term just as comfortably for a political position and understanding; hence my use of it in reference to humanism and atheism. They are both understandings of the world on which humans base their lives.
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ippy, if you are not interested in matters religious, why are you a member of a 'religion and ethics' discussion board.
I belong to a darts and dominoes club. I have no interest in dominoes whatsoever.
Nobody there questions my membership.
Maybe they are kinder than you?
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if you are not interested in matters religious, why are you a member of a 'religion and ethics' discussion board.
I thought this board was open to all whether believers or not.
Furthermore as far as I can see Ippy never expressed the thought (that is, that he was not interested in matters religious) that you accused him of. He thought this thread was pointless - but that is an entirely different position to the one you attributed to him.
It is not up to you to appoint yourself as some kind of arbiter of who is suitable and who is not.
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I thought this board was open to all whether believers or not.
Furthermore as far as I can see Ippy never expressed the thought (that is, that he was not interested in matters religious) that you accused him of. He thought this thread was pointless - but that is an entirely different position to the one you attributed to him.
It is not up to you to appoint yourself as some kind of arbiter of who is suitable and who is not.
Non believers have just as much right to air their views as believers have. Some theists get very touchy when their views, which they state are factual, are challenged because they can't support their claims with verifiable evidence.
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ippy, if you are not interested in matters religious, why are you a member of a 'religion and ethics' discussion board. Aren't there other boards where you can discuss the pros and cons of ethical issues without having to worry about any religious element.
I, on the other hand, have developed my ethical stance at least in part, (though not exclusively) in the context of my belief system, which happens to be Christianity. As has been pointed out a number of times over the years, language usage often outpaces dictionary definitions so, despite the dictionary definition of the term 'belief' often making reference to a deity or God, modern English will use thew term just as comfortably for a political position and understanding; hence my use of it in reference to humanism and atheism. They are both understandings of the world on which human base their lives.
Trent has pointed out the more obvious to you Hope and further to that surly establishing that these people really did exist and did in fact have their various viewpoints, with all of the various very questionable supernatural goings on happening in the background, before it's worth spending any effort analising even one word of any it?
Yes I'll go with you on the language altering as time passes, like people had sidebords when I was a youngster, they now have sideburns, cars used to have radios fitted, usually an extra and before stereo broadcasting we didn't refer to them as monos but we now have radios misnamed as stereos, I know I'm just another old git but as you quite rightly say language keeps moving on.
Religious believer, humanist and atheist aren't exactly the correct description of how we are for a lot of us, although I don't mind being referred to as an atheist as a form of shorthand but it does tend to catigorise me as an unbeliever, I'm no more an unbeliever than I'm non-unicornist or a non-stamp collector, I never have and haven't ever seen anything anywhere that would make me think that there is any such thing as a god so as you can see, how can I not believe in something that for me isn't there in the first place to not believe in?
Referring to people as religious believers is only used by me as a general term as in the case of using the general term of atheist, whilst no offence is intended when using the religious believer term and as I'm sure the atheist term in return isn't either but I do feel sorry for the religious believers and again that's another story.
Regards ippy
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I thought this board was open to all whether believers or not.
Furthermore as far as I can see Ippy never expressed the thought (that is, that he was not interested in matters religious) that you accused him of. He thought this thread was pointless - but that is an entirely different position to the one you attributed to him.
It is not up to you to appoint yourself as some kind of arbiter of who is suitable and who is not.
Over the months, Trent, ippy has judged a number of religiously-orientated threads as 'pointless' (either in so many words or by implication), even when they have been started by non-religious people. To me, that is tantamount to his being judgemental of other posters. All I have done is ask why, if he takes this attitude to the issue, he chooses to belong to a board that deals with the issue.
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Non believers have just as much right to air their views as believers have.
I don't disagree, Floo. What ippy appears in a couple of posts on this thread to want to do is to close down any airing of views that are based on religious beliefs. It's not the first time that this has been done nor, I suspect, will it be the last
Some theists get very touchy when their views, which they state are factual, are challenged because they can't support their claims with verifiable evidence.
Whilst some non-theists get very touchy when their views - which they also state are factual - are challenged because they believe that 'verifiable evidence' has to be of the scientific, naturalistic sort; an attitude which seems to misrepresent life as a whole.
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I don't disagree, Floo. What ippy appears in a couple of posts on this thread to want to do is to close down any airing of views that are based on religious beliefs. It's not the first time that this has been done nor, I suspect, will it be the last
Whilst some non-theists get very touchy when their views - which they also state are factual - are challenged because they believe that 'verifiable evidence' has to be of the scientific, naturalistic sort; an attitude which seems to misrepresent life as a whole.
what's it like to see things that aren't there Hope? your life must be proper weird .
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Were you there on the night of 6 September, 1977, when UI surrendered all that I am to Christ?
Were you there when I invited Him into every part of my being to be my Lord and Saviour?
Were you there when I felt a joy beyond words, and His presence which has never left me to this day?
You must have been a fly on my bedroom wall, then.
"Oh, what a night, late September back in '77.
When I surrendered myself to my lord in heaven. What a feeling, what a night!
For I.. invited him with every part of my being.
Yes, I... knew he was there without even believing...
Oh, what a night, the joy I felt I cannot begin to describe. His presence was there, standing right by my side.
What can I say; just what a day."
(Sung to a tune of your choosing)!!
:)
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Yep. It stopped me in my tracks.... And took me away from the atheism I had espoused for a few years as well.
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Yep. It stopped me in my tracks.... And took me away from the atheism I had espoused for a few years as well.
Sad.
ippy
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Yep. It stopped me in my tracks.... And took me away from the atheism I had espoused for a few years as well.
If you had been talking about any other kind of experience, other than religion, in this way it would probably have been treated as a mental illness
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what's it like to see things that aren't there Hope? your life must be proper weird .
I, and others here, don't see things that aren't there, Walter. As such, we are no different to you.
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Sad.
ippy
What; sad that someone found atheism not to be all some claim for it? Jim certainly isn't alone in that experience.
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What; sad that someone found atheism not to be all some claim for it? Jim certainly isn't alone in that experience.
For me it worked the other way round. As a devout believer I came to the conclusion Christianity was not all that was claimed for it.
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I, and others here, don't see things that aren't there, Walter. As such, we are no different to you.
Hope, you are different from me, my mind is not full of mythology and the supernatural. Therefore my critical thinking skills are not clouded.
My life does not revolve around a base that influences how I run my life . When I have difficult decisions to make I don't think 'what would Jesus do' its more a case of what's best for me and mine.
I have no need for any god or any religion I find the whole idea ridiculous to the point of stupidity.
So I would say we are so different that I might be of another species .
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Hope, you are different from me, my mind is not full of mythology and the supernatural. Therefore my critical thinking skills are not clouded.
My life does not revolve around a base that influences how I run my life . When I have difficult decisions to make I don't think 'what would Jesus do' its more a case of what's best for me and mine.
I have no need for any god or any religion I find the whole idea ridiculous to the point of stupidity.
So I would say we are so different that I might be of another species .
It's a shame that everyone doesn't get the same from Biblical study as others undoubtedly do. I get a wonderful sense of purpose, direction, and a state of mind which is light and caring with the realisation that many have chosen not to be saved from every conceivable distress that can be inflicted upon us.
When we also realise that Jesus was teaching us a science carved and hewn out of God's living waters it is doubly beneficial because we know that we are participants in that science...a science that gently snubs those who ridicule its author.
It should be clear by now that there are mechanics behind the known mechanics of our bodies and minds and upbuilding our spiritual nature a way of adding an extra dimension that otherwise suddenly goes missing...ceases to function in a strong, healthy, robust way...this is when Jesus Christ could say...'I told you so'...but what he actually says is repent and learn about the true nature behind all existence...and I (Jesus) will guide you.
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What; sad that someone found atheism not to be all some claim for it? Jim certainly isn't alone in that experience.
No it's not really that Hope, it's always sad to see anyone turning their back on the rational and going back to the big Ju Ju in the sky type beliefs, really sad.
ippy
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No it's not really that Hope, it's always sad to see anyone turning their back on the rational and going back to the big Ju Ju in the sky type beliefs, really sad.
ippy
Sorry, ippy, but not being a believer in a 'big Ju Ju in the sky' I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm talking about real life.
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No it's not really that Hope, it's always sad to see anyone turning their back on the rational and going back to the big Ju Ju in the sky type beliefs, really sad.
ippy
Something we can agree on ippy...at last.
It's always sad, especially in this day and age, and especially with UFOs zig zagging all over our skies, to ignore an intellectual book which tells us plainly that we are part of a universal authority which is going to come and sort us out once and for all. It wont get into any arguments with us it will just let the planet come to a sticky end whereby all will be in jeopardy but this authority has promised to help those who are not totally oppressive, uncaring, without mercy, without the slightest desire to renew a healthy Earthly status, but just want to suck the planet dry.
Like Ju Ju in the sky, these rowdy, couldn't care lessers, think that by screwing the planet to total destruction they are going to have their own way forever more because the kinder, more caring sort of people are defenseless but we have the highest authority in the universe on our side and a faith that will prove to carry us through to the end and into a new heavens and a new Earth...but don't let me hinder your plans.
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Hope, you are different from me, my mind is not full of mythology and the supernatural. Therefore my critical thinking skills are not clouded.
What makes you think that 1) my mind is full of mythology and 2) that your critical thinking skills aren't clouded? After all, for there to be a 'natural' there must be something else to compare and/or contrast with it, likie there has to be white in order for black to exist. In view of that, doesn't it suggest that your crit. thinking skills are somewhat flawed?
My life does not revolve around a base that influences how I run my life . When I have difficult decisions to make I don't think 'what would Jesus do' its more a case of what's best for me and mine.[/quote]In many ways, I'm the same. My first thought isn't 'What would Jesus do', but this is where I do differ from you, as 'its more a case' of what is best for society and humanity as a whole. Perhaps that's what differentiates believers from non-believers?
I have no need for any god or any religion I find the whole idea ridiculous to the point of stupidity.
Yet, I would be very surprised if you don't 'worship' something or someone. It might be the car you own, your job, your partner, a sports team, money, success, .... The list goes on.
So I would say we are so different that I might be of another species .
Well, I know for certain that I'm a human being. What you might be, ... ???
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Sorry, ippy, but not being a believer in a 'big Ju Ju in the sky' I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm talking about real life.
Big Ju Ju in the sky type beliefs.
ippy
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Something we can agree on ippy...at last.
It's always sad, especially in this day and age, and especially with UFOs zig zagging all over our skies, to ignore an intellectual book which tells us plainly that we are part of a universal authority which is going to come and sort us out once and for all. It wont get into any arguments with us it will just let the planet come to a sticky end whereby all will be in jeopardy but this authority has promised to help those who are not totally oppressive, uncaring, without mercy, without the slightest desire to renew a healthy Earthly status, but just want to suck the planet dry.
Like Ju Ju in the sky, these rowdy, couldn't care lessers, think that by screwing the planet to total destruction they are going to have their own way forever more because the kinder, more caring sort of people are defenseless but we have the highest authority in the universe on our side and a faith that will prove to carry us through to the end and into a .new heavens and a new Earth...but don't let me hinder your plans
You're in a class of your own Nick, so the bible proves the bible is right? Keep taking the tablets Nick.
ippy
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You're in a class of your own Nick, so the bible proves the bible is right? Keep taking the tablets Nick.
ippy
Science must take into account every conceivable point of evidence to get to the best truth...The Holy Bible is such a point of evidence which is totally dismissed by most scientists so they are shirking their duties...however a simpleton like me can see clearly that that point of evidence is an indisputable and accurate account of how the entire universe works and why Jesus was resurrected...it was because his electric/spiritual body was indestructible...it had to go somewhere and like the specialist in these matters that he is he went down to the ether where we all go...snatched the keys of life and death out of Satan's hand and with a wonderful battle-cry which passed through the hearing of all the faithful through every generation since, showed us how we can be resurrected as well...stating those that follow me (accurately) will never die.
Of course there is much more to it than this but you aren't listening anyway.
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It's a shame that everyone doesn't get the same from Biblical study as others undoubtedly do. I get a wonderful sense of purpose, direction, and a state of mind which is light and caring with the realisation that many have chosen not to be saved from every conceivable distress that can be inflicted upon us.
When we also realise that Jesus was teaching us a science carved and hewn out of God's living waters it is doubly beneficial because we know that we are participants in that science...a science that gently snubs those who ridicule its author.
It should be clear by now that there are mechanics behind the known mechanics of our bodies and minds and upbuilding our spiritual nature a way of adding an extra dimension that otherwise suddenly goes missing...ceases to function in a strong, healthy, robust way...this is when Jesus Christ could say...'I told you so'...but what he actually says is repent and learn about the true nature behind all existence...and I (Jesus) will guide you.
It might be a good idea Nick to go and have a serious think before you go asserting anything else only in your last post to me you conveyed that the readings in the bible prove the readings in the bible to be true; even you must realise this is absurd thing to try conveying, at any time, to anyone.
Nick, these thoughts of yours at the kindest, can't be seen or taken as straight thinking, you really need to get this sorted out for your own good.
ippy
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It might be a good idea Nick to go and have a serious think before you go asserting anything else only in your last post to me you conveyed that the readings in the bible prove the readings in the bible to be true; even you must realise this is absurd thing to try conveying, at any time, to anyone.
Nick, these thoughts of yours at the kindest, can't be seen or taken as straight thinking, you really ned to get this sorted out for your own good.
ippy
You live your life according to the common sense of flesh and blood ippy...so do many more and it can be a rough, cruel existence, especially if you don't have a lot of money spare. So...ok...you have a compulsion for accidental nature...and all that it implies.
I, on the other hand, have read a compelling book. It tells me that there is a third dimension to each of our existences...it is spiritual and by upbuilding a spiritual dimension within us we have a closer relationship with the highest authority in the universe...and all that it implies.
Now...you can't contradict that book without giving it serious consideration because you will then find that evil has no natural rights over the planet's population...that is held by Almighty God and he isn't too pleased with the management over this joint. So...he will be looking to put things right and that evil management will resist...but we, who read the book, have prior knowledge and a righteous stance which makes us a little different, in that we are promised salvation....Worth considering when you realise this planet is creaking at the seams and can't support this level of greed much longer.
Phewwwww
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Many of us have given the Bible very serious consideration but don't see it your way, not even Christians.
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You live your life according to the common sense of flesh and blood ippy...so do many more and it can be a rough, cruel existence, especially if you don't have a lot of money spare. So...ok...you have a compulsion for accidental nature...and all that it implies.
I, on the other hand, have read a compelling book. It tells me that there is a third dimension to each of our existences...it is spiritual and by upbuilding a spiritual dimension within us we have a closer relationship with the highest authority in the universe...and all that it implies.
Now...you can't contradict that book without giving it serious consideration because you will then find that evil has no natural rights over the planet's population...that is held by Almighty God and he isn't too pleased with the management over this joint. So...he will be looking to put things right and that evil management will resist...but we, who read the book, have prior knowledge and a righteous stance which makes us a little different, in that we are promised salvation....Worth considering when you realise this planet is creaking at the seams and can't support this level of greed much longer.
Phewwwww
This is your trouble Nick, either you can't or are reluctant to see the point, for your sake I hope it's the latter.
This post of yours is 99% irrelevant, your book or any other book like it, where this book, any book, espouses a particular point of view with various stories supposedly in order to back up the veracity of its points of view, it would be necessary to be able to substantiate the points of view it was conveying in the first place before it could be taken seriously; now remember Nick, this would apply to any book of this kind, which would include your bible, since there is no verifiable evidence to be had that backs up the magical, mystical and supernatural parts of your bible; think about it Nick.
Using any book to support the points of view in that same book would be considered to be a form of madness, dipping into serious La La land material, if that were that the case.
If for some reason you can't see this Nick, you're in trouble and should try to get some help.
It's nothing to do with how wonderful you think your Jesus or god happen to be and the only electrics involved are in the running of your PC or Lap top.
ippy
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This is your trouble Nick, either you can't or are reluctant to see the point, for your sake I hope it's the latter.
This post of yours is 99% irrelevant, your book or any other book like it, where this book, any book, espouses a particular point of view with various stories supposedly in order to back up the veracity of its points of view, it would be necessary to be able to substantiate the points of view it was conveying in the first place before it could be taken seriously; now remember Nick, this would apply to any book of this kind, which would include your bible, since there is no verifiable evidence to be had that backs up the magical, mystical and supernatural parts of your bible; think about it Nick.
Using any book to support the points of view in that same book would be considered to be a form of madness, dipping into serious La La land material, if that were that the case.
If for some reason you can't see this Nick, you're in trouble and should try to get some help.
It's nothing to do with how wonderful you think your Jesus or god happen to be and the only electrics involved are in the running of your PC or Lap top.
ippy
Perhaps ippy Almighty God wrote his book this way to appeal to those with the ability to read and extract the wonderful fruits of its instruction thus verifying the book for themselves and leaving those without an inkling to just stand at the door of righteous teaching shouting defamatory things. You can't discredit a serious written work whilst not bothering to read it and as it is a book of instruction giving those instructions a try as well. Then maybe, you will see the invisible force that is ever present in that instruction, and which, by our mishandling is the route cause of all our distress...just as that Holy book tells us.
Every single thing in the universe is electrically powered yet we totally ignore our own electric powers letting it take care of itself or others with no interest in us manipulate it to their own advantage...that's what that book tells me and Jesus tells us how to take control of our own spiritual health at least...with a promise that the science offers much more.
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God didn't write the documents making up the Bible NM, it is a human construction.
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God didn't write the documents making up the Bible NM, it is a human construction.
You keep saying that Floo, but I'm afraid you are wrong. If we take in all the facts that are available to us today it is glaringly obvious that a wonderful force is working in the background and what that force says goes.
The voice of that force has said he created this planet and it is his righteous laws that sustain it. Knowing there will be a day of reckoning he sent Jesus Christ to show us how to be saved and it all revolves around us all following those same laws that Jesus delivered. Failure to do so is at our own peril because not only are those laws the standard we must subsequently live by they are also the science that will save us. It's as simple as that really...no need to bother about what happens in the future other than making sure we are righteously fit for purpose.
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Perhaps ippy Almighty God wrote his book this way to appeal to those with the ability to read and extract the wonderful fruits of its instruction thus verifying the book for themselves and leaving those without an inkling to just stand at the door of righteous teaching shouting defamatory things. You can't discredit a serious written work whilst not bothering to read it and as it is a book of instruction giving those instructions a try as well. Then maybe, you will see the invisible force that is ever present in that instruction, and which, by our mishandling is the route cause of all our distress...just as that Holy book tells us.
Every single thing in the universe is electrically powered yet we totally ignore our own electric powers letting it take care of itself or others with no interest in us manipulate it to their own advantage...that's what that book tells me and Jesus tells us how to take control of our own spiritual health at least...with a promise that the science offers much more.
Nick, while I can appreciate you like to think this, as you say, god of yours wrote this book of yours, the point you are either avoiding or are unable to see, there is now and never has been any evidence that would support, especially the magical, mystical and superstition based parts, the authenticity of this book of yours.
When and if you find verifiable evidence that would support your book, why wouldn't we all become believers?
Whining on about how wonderful the contents of your book are and keeping on about electricity, doesn't amount to verifiable evidence.
Whether I've read your book or not has nothing to do with the aspects of religion based beliefs, I'm trying to discuss with you so passing any kind of sermon in my direction has nothing to do with verifiable evidence, no matter how unlikely it is you have any to put forward that might support your religious belief.
Where's your verifiable evidence Nick? Don't do the stupid the bible is evidence for the bible one again, that's absolutely potty by any standard.
ippy
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Nick, while I can appreciate you like to think this, as you say, god of yours wrote this book of yours, the point you are either avoiding or are unable to see, there is now and never has been any evidence that would support, especially the magical, mystical and superstition based parts, the authenticity of this book of yours.
When and if you find verifiable evidence that would support your book, why wouldn't we all become believers?
Whining on about how wonderful the contents of your book are and keeping on about electricity, doesn't amount to verifiable evidence.
Whether I've read your book or not has nothing to do with the aspects of religion based beliefs, I'm trying to discuss with you so passing any kind of sermon in my direction has nothing to do with verifiable evidence, no matter how unlikely it is you have any to put forward that might support your religious belief.
Where's your verifiable evidence Nick? Don't do the stupid the bible is evidence for the bible one again, that's absolutely potty by any standard.
ippy
Millions will disagree with you on that last point of yours ippy...and my scientific reasoning which states positively that the raw material behind all the mass contained within the entire universe has to be a pure, gentle, invisible, superabundant material, much like dark matter but with a much bigger bite, sort of doubles for God's Living Waters and by realising that this is the code behind all Biblical teaching as well as behind all science gives every supporter of Jesus Christ an extra dimension by which to validate Jesus' word from.
What this means of course is that when you come to realise that Jesus was showing you how you can be resurrected as well then you will get a little more serious about things you currently want to take exception to.
Everyone else has to start by faith so that must be your starting point as well, ippy...good luck.
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You keep saying that Floo, but I'm afraid you are wrong. If we take in all the facts that are available to us today it is glaringly obvious that a wonderful force is working in the background and what that force says goes.
The voice of that force has said he created this planet and it is his righteous laws that sustain it. Knowing there will be a day of reckoning he sent Jesus Christ to show us how to be saved and it all revolves around us all following those same laws that Jesus delivered. Failure to do so is at our own peril because not only are those laws the standard we must subsequently live by they are also the science that will save us. It's as simple as that really...no need to bother about what happens in the future other than making sure we are righteously fit for purpose.
Billions of people will disagree with you on those points Nick!
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You keep saying that Floo, but I'm afraid you are wrong. If we take in all the facts that are available to us today it is glaringly obvious that a wonderful force is working in the background and what that force says goes.
The voice of that force has said he created this planet and it is his righteous laws that sustain it. Knowing there will be a day of reckoning he sent Jesus Christ to show us how to be saved and it all revolves around us all following those same laws that Jesus delivered. Failure to do so is at our own peril because not only are those laws the standard we must subsequently live by they are also the science that will save us. It's as simple as that really...no need to bother about what happens in the future other than making sure we are righteously fit for purpose.
You have not one shred of evidence to prove a god exists, let alone it wrote the Bible as you claim!
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You have not one shred of evidence to prove a god exists, let alone it wrote the Bible as you claim!
You will dispute anything I say Floo...but you don't come close to displacing the wonderful knowledge that I have gleaned from the Holy Bible...that is stenciled into every word and lightens up every page and it is this...that the entire visible universe is the heavier form of an indestructible energy owned by God and is in fact the spiritual flesh and blood of God, who, by his full scientific insight, has total authority over the whole universe...and who sent Jesus Christ to explain that authority and bring those who want what our Deity want, ie...peace, happiness, good will, good health, good order and a world full of righteous integrity, to salvation for once and for all time, forever, for all eternity...so you must see why the Final Judgement is so important...wouldn't want any unrepentant law-breakers in there, would we. You are also welcome, I believe, as long as you can repent...as well.
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Nicholas, I asked you a question a couple of weeks ago and you didn't reply; you probably didn't see it buried under other posts. So I'll ask you again.
Do you pray for people, Nicholas? For example, if you came across someone in any sort of difficulty, in need of help, would you ask God to help them, give them strength (as well as helping them yourself, where possible)? I'm sure you do but never seen you write that you do.
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Nicholas, I asked you a question a couple of weeks ago and you didn't reply; you probably didn't see it buried under other posts. So I'll ask you again.
Do you pray for people, Nicholas? For example, if you came across someone in any sort of difficulty, in need of help, would you ask God to help them, give them strength (as well as helping them yourself, where possible)? I'm sure you do but never seen you write that you do.
I have an open heart for people who are in trouble Brownie...that is why I'm not easily discouraged in my postings. I see us all as having to help ourselves Jesus Christ's way and try to ensure I leave this message behind me. In many ways I have been called to service because an extreme wrong has occurred and a calming influence often helps far more because the more natural attitude can be so destructive. I live in my environment as if God put me there as a silent partner in his plans and still get time to enjoy family pursuits.
I'm also very aware that evil is dictating many hardships on those who are unprepared and am ready to serve where and when I can...but I'm not sure if that answers your question.
It is also important that we strive with Jesus to regain our own health because it is in being stronger that evil will fall flat on its face in all its manifestations.
ps I thought you asked that question from another whilst in dialogue with us both...Khatru rings a bell.
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I'm also very aware that evil is dictating many hardships on those who are unprepared
How exactly does evil dictate hardships Nick?
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You will dispute anything I say Floo...but you don't come close to displacing the wonderful knowledge that I have gleaned from the Holy Bible...that is stenciled into every word and lightens up every page and it is this...that the entire visible universe is the heavier form of an indestructible energy owned by God and is in fact the spiritual flesh and blood of God, who, by his full scientific insight, has total authority over the whole universe...and who sent Jesus Christ to explain that authority and bring those who want what our Deity want, ie...peace, happiness, good will, good health, good order and a world full of righteous integrity, to salvation for once and for all time, forever, for all eternity...so you must see why the Final Judgement is so important...wouldn't want any unrepentant law-breakers in there, would we. You are also welcome, I believe, as long as you can repent...as well.
Of course I will dispute what you say when you state as fact something which is only a belief, and for which you cannot provide verifiable evidence. This post of your is assertion, not fact!
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No, Nicholas, I was asking you that question but no matter, it may have looked different.
Thanks for your answer. What I wonder is, if someone asked you to pray for them, for something specific, would you do so?
Glad you enjoy life, Nicholas.
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No, Nicholas, I was asking you that question but no matter, it may have looked different.
Thanks for your answer. What I wonder is, if someone asked you to pray for them, for something specific, would you do so?
Glad you enjoy life, Nicholas.
My prayers are somewhat personal Brownie but I do know that harmonizing with Jesus' style of prayer...being...humble, respectful, meek, kind, thoughtful and submissive to our creator yields a return of strength which I identify as God's Living Waters and so I see this as a very important element in Jesus' accurate teaching.
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How exactly does evil dictate hardships Nick?
You shouldn't need to ask that one Seb. Evil, as far as I'm aware, has never gone round doing good works. The problem is that it often inveigles itself into the workings of good works and seeks to put difficulties and obstacles in its path. The net result is the world we live in today and thankfully, a world which will soon become a righteous one because the science of righteousness is indestructible...it just needs understanding...and there is only Jesus Christ fully qualified.
He has already laid down Almighty God's terms and conditions.
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You shouldn't need to ask that one Seb. Evil, as far as I'm aware, has never gone round doing good works. The problem is that it often inveigles itself into the workings of good works and seeks to put difficulties and obstacles in its path. The net result is the world we live in today and thankfully, a world which will soon become a righteous one because the science of righteousness is indestructible...it just needs understanding...and there is only Jesus Christ fully qualified.
He has already laid down Almighty God's terms and conditions.
Nick, this reply is full of things you believe, none of it can be supported by any verifiable evidence.
It doesn't matter how much you keep preaching on about what you believe, none of it amounts to being facts.
You can't be locked up for believing in anything, quite rightly so, but believing in things alone isn't sufficient to make them true beliefs, that is without verifiable evidence to back them up.
I have to tell you Nick, you haven't got any verifiable evidence that the bible is the true word of your god and it's madness, no less, to say the bible is sufficient verifiable evidence to support the words of the bible, no one is that stupid to even think it does, Nick, you can't be that thick, surly no reasonably functioning human being is that thick?
Ippy
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Nick, this reply is full of things you believe, none of it can be supported by any verifiable evidence.
It doesn't matter how much you keep preaching on about what you believe, none of it amounts to being facts.
You can't be locked up for believing in anything, quite rightly so, but believing in things alone isn't sufficient to make them true beliefs, that is without verifiable evidence to back them up.
I have to tell you Nick, you haven't got any verifiable evidence that the bible is the true word of your god and it's madness, no less, to say the bible is sufficient verifiable evidence to support the words of the bible, no one is that stupid to even think it does, Nick, you can't be that thick, surly no reasonably functioning human being is that thick?
Ippy
You just keep saying the same thing ippy. You refuse to read a book full of faith, hope and charity and disregard it for the sake of your own argument...because you say it cannot be scientifically proven to be correct...but you are so wrong...and I keep telling you so because others might be able to grasp that point better than you.
The universe exists and is full of electric energy. Science seeks to unify all that energy but can't...but the Holy Bible leaps thousands of years ahead of us and gives us all the key points to enable that understanding...and it all hinges upon Jesus Christ.
Jesus taught us how to harness that same force...for health, repair and resurrection.
Millions have put it to the test and found great value in its teaching.
Tyrants have had to bring that teaching under their own banner to secure the support of those who believe.
Scientists have followed strict practices and codes under the banner of Jesus Christ in colleges supported by finances provided by believers.
The Jews and the Catholics have global empires built from Biblical knowledge.
Now it seems that the Earth is shaking, wobbling, erupting, flooding and wildly changing in climate and magnetic stability which would make even the most skeptic wonder about what is written in Revelation.
And me...who says that the evidence of ufos and the length and depth in space and time of all existence makes Almighty God a reality and, according to the Holy Bible, the highest authority over all members of that universal community.
Jesus Christ visited this planet and made righteousness a necessity for all those who might want to survive the final tribulation but if you aren't bothered enough to prepare in accordance with our savior...tough.
I feel duty bound to tell you these things because I know that there will be an insignificant replica of you left over after the last trumpet and the Bible description of what will happen to it isn't very nice...so...really...I'm trying to save you from yourself...but...resistance to salvation means that you wouldn't fit in anyway.
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You shouldn't need to ask that one Seb. Evil, as far as I'm aware, has never gone round doing good works. The problem is that it often inveigles itself into the workings of good works and seeks to put difficulties and obstacles in its path. The net result is the world we live in today and thankfully, a world which will soon become a righteous one because the science of righteousness is indestructible...it just needs understanding...and there is only Jesus Christ fully qualified.
He has already laid down Almighty God's terms and conditions.
The problem there Nick is that again you have not accurately answered my query. I asked 'how' . You replied to a 'what'.
Would you like to try again? Please.
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My prayers are somewhat personal Brownie but I do know that harmonizing with Jesus' style of prayer...being...humble, respectful, meek, kind, thoughtful and submissive to our creator yields a return of strength which I identify as God's Living Waters and so I see this as a very important element in Jesus' accurate teaching.
That doesn't really answer my question, Nicholas, but no matter.
I didn't want you to go into personal stuff but what I meant when I asked was, if someone told you they were in any type of serious difficulty, would you lift them up to the Lord in prayer, simply asking Him to help and comfort them. Most of us do that. There is a section of this forum where people start threads asking others to pray for and with them about various issues. It's a kindly place.
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That doesn't really answer my question, Nicholas, but no matter.
I didn't want you to go into personal stuff but what I meant when I asked was, if someone told you they were in any type of serious difficulty, would you lift them up to the Lord in prayer, simply asking Him to help and comfort them. Most of us do that. There is a section of this forum where people start threads asking others to pray for and with them about various issues. It's a kindly place.
My own prayers have been answered Brownie...I asked, what on earth is going wrong with the world and much of what I received by way of response I include in my posts. Evil is a spiteful enemy and we all fall foul of its tentacles. It injures our healtth...our genetics...it separates families...it ensures the weak are left destitute...it alters our thinking...it leads to war...death and destruction...it weakens our immune systems...it frightens us unmercilessly and it works in exactly the same way cancer works...surely by exposing these crimes I am praying for all the oppressed in a meaningful way...over and above all objecters of Jesus Christ.
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NM what do you mean by 'what I received in response', how did you receive it?
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You just keep saying the same thing ippy. You refuse to read a book full of faith, hope and charity and disregard it for the sake of your own argument...because you say it cannot be scientifically proven to be correct...but you are so wrong...and I keep telling you so because others might be able to grasp that point better than you.
The universe exists and is full of electric energy. Science seeks to unify all that energy but can't...but the Holy Bible leaps thousands of years ahead of us and gives us all the key points to enable that understanding...and it all hinges upon Jesus Christ.
Jesus taught us how to harness that same force...for health, repair and resurrection.
Millions have put it to the test and found great value in its teaching.
Tyrants have had to bring that teaching under their own banner to secure the support of those who believe.
Scientists have followed strict practices and codes under the banner of Jesus Christ in colleges supported by finances provided by believers.
The Jews and the Catholics have global empires built from Biblical knowledge.
Now it seems that the Earth is shaking, wobbling, erupting, flooding and wildly changing in climate and magnetic stability which would make even the most skeptic wonder about what is written in Revelation.
And me...who says that the evidence of ufos and the length and depth in space and time of all existence makes Almighty God a reality and, according to the Holy Bible, the highest authority over all members of that universal community.
Jesus Christ visited this planet and made righteousness a necessity for all those who might want to survive the final tribulation but if you aren't bothered enough to prepare in accordance with our savior...tough.
I feel duty bound to tell you these things because I know that there will be an insignificant replica of you left over after the last trumpet and the Bible description of what will happen to it isn't very nice...so...really...I'm trying to save you from yourself...but...resistance to salvation means that you wouldn't fit in anyway.
Nick I'll keep it simple for you, it obviously has to be simple more simple than I realised, in that last post of yours to me you wrote the following:
"Jesus taught us how to harness that same force...for health, repair and resurrection".
Well that's fine that you have chosen to believe this, what I would like to know is how you would go about substantiating that this Jesus chap of yours actually did say this, only I would say that nobody knows that he said any such thing and there is no evidence to be had that proves that he did.
You only need to explain where you have acquired this verifiable evidence and demonstrate how it does verify these were his words; now you should be able to answer this without an accompanying sermon, or anything sermon like either.
I now look forward to a concise answer without the addition of another crappy sermon, a straight answer would be much appreciated.
ippy
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I get it now NM, thank you for your answer, and it was what I thought you'd say but vaguely hoped might be different.
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I get it now NM, thank you for your answer, and it was what I thought you'd say but vaguely hoped might be different.
Sorry to disappoint Brownie...my understanding is that this planet is reaching a point where God's Judgement will be issued on each and everyone of us. The time is coming when God will say...just carry on as you are, the time for repentence is spent...The great tribulations will intensify culminating into one, short, sharp shock and that will be it. The fiery lake of sulphur will have passed and a new heavens and a new Earth will spring into existence...and all those who followed Jesus Christ's teaching accurately will be part of it and the science of righteousness will begin work imediatley...repairing those who are genetically flawed which will be each and every one of us...it is then when all our prior sufferings will pay dividends because it wont be an easy ride but operating from God's Living Waters isn't the same as relying upon man made hit and miss practices developed for the few instead of for all.
Everlasting life...here we come.
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NM you keep making statements with no evidence to support any of them! ::)
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NM you keep making statements with no evidence to support any of them! ::)
I've got the Holy Bible Floo...it's all in there and much more besides. What you have to start realising is that Almighty God is a Universal God who has every science under his belt and Jesus Christ...is that science made flesh.
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I've got the Holy Bible Floo...it's all in there and much more besides. What you have to start realising is that Almighty God is a Universal God who has every science under his belt and Jesus Christ...is that science made flesh.
The Bible is no more reliable than the Harry Potter books when it comes to credibility!
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I've got the Holy Bible Floo...it's all in there and much more besides. What you have to start realising is that Almighty God is a Universal God who has every science under his belt and Jesus Christ...is that science made flesh.
Right you've got the holy bible, where's the evidence that would support it if you have any?
ippy
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It doesn't matter about me being disappointed, Nicholas, and I'm not really, but I was thinking that we encounter people all the time who have difficulties of one sort or another and what they need is a bit of kindness from us in the here and now.
If you look at the prayer forum here and on St Thad's, people ask for prayers for those they care about, sometimes for themselves; they want to feel that others are walking alongside them (as Jesus does), and caring. Preaching at that time would not be helpful, quite the opposite actually.
Hypothetical scenarios : wife/husband injured in car accident/roof caved in and insurance won't pay out/lost job;
do we respond with loving sympathy on a personal level or do we tell them to repent before it's too late so that they have no such problems in the next world?
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Right you've got the holy bible, where's the evidence that would support it if you have any?
ippy
don't feed the pigeons, they're a bloody nuisance.
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It doesn't matter about me being disappointed, Nicholas, and I'm not really, but I was thinking that we encounter people all the time who have difficulties of one sort or another and what they need is a bit of kindness from us in the here and now.
If you look at the prayer forum here and on St Thad's, people ask for prayers for those they care about, sometimes for themselves; they want to feel that others are walking alongside them (as Jesus does), and caring. Preaching at that time would not be helpful, quite the opposite actually.
Hypothetical scenarios : wife/husband injured in car accident/roof caved in and insurance won't pay out/lost job;
do we respond with loving sympathy on a personal level or do we tell them to repent before it's too late so that they have no such problems in the next world?
I thought I'd covered that in an earlier post Brownie...but this is the point I am making now...that we each have the ability to pray for ourselves and we each have the ability to reach out for God's living waters and we each have the ability to begin a repair programme from any starting point. Where we go wrong is in thinking that a multitude of prayers can do better than we ourselves, as individuals can. Jesus says of prayer...find a quiet place, out of earshot of others and make your needs known to God who will reward you and restoring our righteous strength in a way which gives more righteous clout is the best reward ever. When people are unable to pray for themselves and it affects us deeply then our needs might include such a person but God's plan is paramount in these last days...there is too much blood passed under the bridge.
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I understand that Nicholas but there are times when we, as human beings, cannot get our heads together and a bit of unconditional help from another person, whether practical, prayerful or just kind words, is greatly comforting and calming. Maybe you have grown beyond that sort of need but we are all different.
Jesus didn't hesitate to walk alongside others in their hour of need, seeing them as individuals, and I honestly believe that we must strive to do the same, quietly if possible.
We'll have to agree to differ on this one.
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I understand that Nicholas but there are times when we, as human beings, cannot get our heads together and a bit of unconditional help from another person, whether practical, prayerful or just kind words, is greatly comforting and calming. Maybe you have grown beyond that sort of need but we are all different.
Jesus didn't hesitate to walk alongside others in their hour of need, seeing them as individuals, and I honestly believe that we must strive to do the same, quietly if possible.
Galatians 6 v 2 Nicholas Marks:
Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
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"righteous clout". Nicholas you have surpassed yourself.
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Sword, thanks for that passage which is spot on. I will learn it!
I love this:
1 Kings 19:5-8
5 Then he lay down under the bush and fell asleep.
All at once an angel touched him and said, “Get up and eat.” 6 He looked around, and there by his head was some bread baked over hot coals, and a jar of water. He ate and drank and then lay down again.
7 The angel of the Lord came back a second time and touched him and said, “Get up and eat, for the journey is too much for you.” 8 So he got up and ate and drank. Strengthened by that food, he traveled forty days and forty nights until he reached Horeb, the mountain of God.
(NIV)
This really shows God's great care for someone who was depressed. Food and rest, marvellous.
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Nick I'll keep it simple for you, it obviously has to be simple more simple than I realised, in that last post of yours to me you wrote the following:
"Jesus taught us how to harness that same force...for health, repair and resurrection".
Well that's fine that you have chosen to believe this, what I would like to know is how you would go about substantiating that this Jesus chap of yours actually did say this, only I would say that nobody knows that he said any such thing and there is no evidence to be had that proves that he did.
You only need to explain where you have acquired this verifiable evidence and demonstrate how it does verify these were his words; now you should be able to answer this without an accompanying sermon, or anything sermon like either.
I now look forward to a concise answer without the addition of another crappy sermon, a straight answer would be much appreciated.
ippy
Your as good as Seb for going round and round in circles ippy but I feel sure that someone will actually listen and get the gist of Jesus Christ's accurate teaching.
Jesus said...and I quote...I am the way, the truth, and the life...those that follow me will never die.
Jesus followed Jesus and though his body, his flesh and blood, were brought to death in a vicious and violent way...spiritually he didn't die...he went to the graveyard in the ether as an electric being but it couldn't contain him...he was brought back to his own mutilated body and restored to life. Now...if Jesus did it and told us we can do it then this might be a good reason to follow him.
Many have genetics damaged beyond repair but that doesn't stop them from repenting and harnessing a righteous spirit...remember there are parts of our body we can afford to lose because it is better to lose them than losing the whole body to Gehenna...but our electric/spiritual/eternal existence can be reinforced, strengthened, made whole ready for resurrection to a new vessel...providing we can read that Holy Book you want to condemn and take advantage of a universal authority which tells us we are heading for a cataclysmic event which will see all those captured in the verses of Revelation 21:8 snatched from the Earth to reside in an electric form aboard a fiery place of torment forever more. We would all be going there except that those who read and follow that Holy Book according to the instructions Jesus taught us will have an ability to stand much firmer than those who ridicule and disbelieve that authority...remember...it is no skin off their nose who is saved except that Jesus promised the faithful...he would save them. But in the future there will be a much stronger control because those who are put in charge as leaders will be established adherents in righteousness. Many even resurrected as Jesus said.
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"righteous clout". Nicholas you have surpassed yourself.
I write as I am inspired to write 2Corrie and this expression says exactly what it means. We are all oppressed if we let the mechanics of no control work its skulduggery. Our whole lives are over-ridden by the devious who seek to make their own prestige and fortune from the numbers of people they get hobbling to their tune.
Righteous clout means recovering some of our emotional strength for our own use and as this is the fuel that will feed our repair it will give the weakest with no clout a stronger voice because they are then in league with a strong leadership...Almighty God and Jesus Christ...plus all those who are also slating their genetic thirsts on God's Living Waters...now that's what I call righteous clout.
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Your as good as Seb for going round and round in circles ippy but I feel sure that someone will actually listen and get the gist of Jesus Christ's accurate teaching.
Jesus said...and I quote...I am the way, the truth, and the life...those that follow me will never die.
Jesus followed Jesus and though his body, his flesh and blood, were brought to death in a vicious and violent way...spiritually he didn't die...he went to the graveyard in the ether as an electric being but it couldn't contain him...he was brought back to his own mutilated body and restored to life. Now...if Jesus did it and told us we can do it then this might be a good reason to follow him.
Many have genetics damaged beyond repair but that doesn't stop them from repenting and harnessing a righteous 7spirit...remember there are parts of our body we can afford to lose because it is better to lose them than losing the whole body to Gehenna...but our electric/spiritual/eternal existence can be reinforced, strengthened, made whole ready for resurrection to a new vessel...providing we can read that Holy Book you want to condemn and take advantage of a universal authority which tells us we are heading for a cataclysmic event which will see all those captured in the verses of Revelation 21:8 snatched from the Earth to reside in an electric form aboard a fiery place of torment forever more. We would all be going there except that those who read and follow that Holy Book according to the instructions Jesus taught us will have an ability to stand much firmer than those who ridicule and disbelieve that authority...remember...it is no skin off their nose who is saved except that Jesus promised the faithful...he would save them. But in the future there will be a much stronger control because those who are put in charge as leaders will be established adherents in righteousness. Many even resurrected as Jesus said.
Trying to get someone to answer a very simple question and presenting it in as many differing ways in the hope that even the simplist mind could handle or might be able to understand isn't cicular.
It's a simple enough question but I suppose some prefer close the eyes and la la la la la, rather than open them up to some of the realities in life.
No doubt you'll open up your portable lecturn and give us all another never ending sermon rather than a realistic consice answer, that is if you do ever answer things you don't like.
Come on Nick you'not as big a prat that you're pretending to be; where's your evidence that supplies verifiable evidence that would or could support the bible and prove for once and all that it is the authentic words of your suposed god figure whatever it is supposed to be?
ippy
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Galatians 6 v 2 Nicholas Marks:
Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
Galatians 6:5
5 for each one should carry their own load.
I make this point tongue in cheek because you are of course correct SwordOfTheSpirit/Brownie...and in these end days it might be wise to listen to Jesus closer than to Paul, anyway, because it is Jesus who is the way, the truth and the life. It is really a mine-field because we want our prayers to be meaningful but the purpose of prayer isn't to appease a distressed spirit until they are well enough or strong enough to return to sin...it is to attach ourselves to God's Living Waters and lead others to it so that we can use God's and Jesus' righteous word to the max. in a continuum which doesn't stop until we achieve everlasting life...we are always encouraged to support each other.
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Trying to get someone to answer a very simple question and presenting it in as many differing ways in the hope that even the simplist mind could handle or might be able to understand isn't cicular.
It's a simple enough question but I suppose some prefer close the eyes and la la la la la, rather than open them up to some of the realities in life.
No doubt you'll open up your portable lecturn and give us all another never ending sermon rather than a realistic consice answer, that is if you do ever answer things you don't like.
Come on Nick you'not as big a prat that you're pretending to be; where's your evidence that supplies verifiable evidence that would or could support the bible and prove for once and all that it is the authentic words of your suposed god figure whatever it is supposed to be?
ippy
The invisible things of God are seen by those things that are visible.
You are proving to me ippy to be unable to grasp righteousness...so don't worry about it too much.
If we look at it logically you are insisting that someone who has found all the truth he needs in life from the Holy Bible to prove that the Holy Bible is true without using the Holy Bible and that is unreasonable, illogical, and bordering on foolishness...but even so I will answer you.
All the science that I am able to understand which comes up into one enormous head called the Grand Unification Of All The Universal Forces is unified into one understanding, for me, if, and only if, we take the wonderful teaching contained in the Holy Bible into account. Not iniquity...not any other teaching, but the Holy Bible, and especially the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.
Now you may think this is good fun chasing a silly old believer around a forum to show everyone just how clever you are but all you are doing is showing believers why they must cling to Jesus Christ at all times because there are forces out there which will snatch your pearls from you and grovel around the mud with them where they will be lost...That doesn't bother me too much because I have plenty of pearls.
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Galatians 6:5
5 for each one should carry their own load.
I make this point tongue in cheek because you are of course correct SwordOfTheSpirit/Brownie...and in these end days it might be wise to listen to Jesus closer than to Paul, anyway, because it is Jesus who is the way, the truth and the life. It is really a mine-field because we want our prayers to be meaningful but the purpose of prayer isn't to appease a distressed spirit until they are well enough or strong enough to return to sin...it is to attach ourselves to God's Living Waters and lead others to it so that we can use God's and Jesus' righteous word to the max. in a continuum which doesn't stop until we achieve everlasting life...we are always encouraged to support each other.
They might not return to sin, Nicholas.
Supporting someone, or some others, is a good witness. We don't always need words.
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The invisible things of God are seen by those things that are visible.
You are proving to me ippy to be unable to grasp righteousness...so don't worry about it too much.
If we look at it logically you are insisting that someone who has found all the truth he needs in life from the Holy Bible to prove that the Holy Bible is true without using the Holy Bible and that is unreasonable, illogical, and bordering on foolishness...but even so I will answer you.
All the science that I am able to understand which comes up into one enormous head called the Grand Unification Of All The Universal Forces is unified into one understanding, for me, if, and only if, we take the wonderful teaching contained in the Holy Bible into account. Not iniquity...not any other teaching, but the Holy Bible, and especially the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.
Now you may think this is good fun chasing a silly old believer around a forum to show everyone just how clever you are but all you are doing is showing believers why they must cling to Jesus Christ at all times because there are forces out there which will snatch your pearls from you and grovel around the mud with them where they will be lost...That doesn't bother me too much because I have plenty of pearls.
All you're proving is you don't want to answer a simple question, you're so into your fantasy world, real life is to difficult for you without your comforter blanket.
You come up with more and more nonsense in bucket loads rather than give me a sensible answer Nick.
You've made it clear that you believe in this religion nonsense, so there's no need to include any of it in any answer you might give me.
Nows the time to give me the answer the question given Nick, come on get on with it.
ippy
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They might not return to sin, Nicholas.
Supporting someone, or some others, is a good witness. We don't always need words.
If we don't get righteousness right Brownie we can finish up enslaved by those we help. If we just give, many will just take. It is a two way offer...give righteousness conditionally because you might find you are being taken for a ride. Look at ippy. He has no interest what-so-ever except to railroad and ridicule everything we have got to say about Jesus. He has no understanding what-so-ever of the points believers want to discuss and is just on a wind-up jolly.
I could go on to show you how this tactic is at the root of all oppression in every manifestation of it...which is why we must upbuild our own righteous spirit first or as Jesus said...seek ye first the kingdom of God. Those that don't, even with the very best of intentions, finish up serving iniquity and not Jesus Christ at all.
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If we don't get righteousness right Brownie we can finish up enslaved by those we help. If we just give, many will just take. It is a two way offer...give righteousness conditionally because you might find you are being taken for a ride. Look at ippy. He has no interest what-so-ever except to railroad and ridicule everything we have got to say about Jesus. He has no understanding what-so-ever of the points believers want to discuss and is just on a wind-up jolly.
I could go on to show you how this tactic is at the root of all oppression in every manifestation of it...which is why we must upbuild our own righteous spirit first or as Jesus said...seek ye first the kingdom of God. Those that don't, even with the very best of intentions, finish up serving iniquity and not Jesus Christ at all.
Well, first off I am not going to look at any other poster in order to call them out for any reason. This is a discussion forum, open to all, which means there will be diverse opinions. If I don't like that I can go elsewhere. There are exclusive forums out there - and jolly boring they are too! If I joined one of those I would be tempted to be naughty.
As for being a wind-up, Nicholas, you've been accused of that more than once ! I didn't agree then, still don't, but you of all people should know what it is like to be given names by those who don't agree, or who just don't 'get' you.
However, I do agree that there are those who will exploit anyone who seeks to help them. So we have to take care of ourselves. Jesus gave us the commandment to love our neighbour as our self which means we must love our self. We're no use to anyone else if we are not in good order. It is also the case that those who are constantly self-sacrificing are often trying to fulfill their own needs which achieves nothing in the long term. We won't be respected if we don't respect ourselves so, to a point, I am in agreement with you on that one.
Having said all that, if we are reasonably balanced, we can be good to others without being feverishly "do-gooding"; it will come about naturally. We just have to be a bit wised up and know our limits - and our own weaknesses! Then we can walk the extra mile.
The 'Good Samaritan' is a fine example of a seemingly ordinary person going about his business, who perceived a need and was prepared to cross the road to give aid with no fuss and without any conditions. To him, it was the obvious thing to do.
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If we don't get righteousness right Brownie we can finish up enslaved by those we help. If we just give, many will just take. It is a two way offer...give righteousness conditionally because you might find you are being taken for a ride. Look at ippy. He has no interest what-so-ever except to railroad and ridicule everything we have got to say about Jesus. He has no understanding what-so-ever of the points believers want to discuss and is just on a wind-up jolly.
Yes! Look at Ippy.
What does lie behind his willingness to railroad and ridicule everything to do with religion.
Do you find it not strange that someone without faith spends so many hours reading and never learning?
Ippy should be lamented over...
I could go on to show you how this tactic is at the root of all oppression in every manifestation of it...which is why we must upbuild our own righteous spirit first or as Jesus said...seek ye first the kingdom of God. Those that don't, even with the very best of intentions, finish up serving iniquity and not Jesus Christ at all.
Great is he who is us, than he who is in the world. It should lead us to pray fervently for such as Ippy for we know the heartache the truth will bring if when too late he learns the truth.
God loves us all, and we should be selfless as Christ was. We are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. If eventually it serves to make him realise the truth that God is real. Then all the hassle will be worth it. :)
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Brownie/Sassy...
What i am trying to say is that Jesus identified to us that we each have a spiritual nature. A real living electrical force which we can upbuild within ourselves as Jesus did and prosper in righteousness. It is important that we do because it is the abuse of our spirit which feeds evil and I have tried to show that working on low charge causes many health problems...yet no one has twigged. Your very best scientists are totally unaware that generating a strong spirit is generating a strong electric force with benefits like repair and resurrection clearly stamped upon it.
This leads to us examining all abuses of it because we see wife beaters, baby bashers, all bully's, all evil, following the same pattern of stealing it from their victims. Now if we are looking at things correctly we can take precautions against all bullying and the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ is that best precaution.
I think that is very important and I think Jesus does to.
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Sword, thanks for that passage which is spot on. I will learn it!
You're welcome! :)
I love this:
1 Kings 19:5-8
5 Then he lay down under the bush and fell asleep.
...
(NIV)
This really shows God's great care for someone who was depressed. Food and rest, marvellous.
Yes, I like that passage too. God could have told him off, told him to get up and go where he was supposed to go, but He didn't. Instead, He let Elijah rest and recuperate and get his strength back first.
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If we don't get righteousness right Brownie we can finish up enslaved by those we help. If we just give, many will just take. It is a two way offer...give righteousness conditionally because you might find you are being taken for a ride. Look at ippy. He has no interest what-so-ever except to railroad and ridicule everything we have got to say about Jesus. He has no understanding what-so-ever of the points believers want to discuss and is just on a wind-up jolly.
I could go on to show you how this tactic is at the root of all oppression in every manifestation of it...which is why we must upbuild our own righteous spirit first or as Jesus said...seek ye first the kingdom of God. Those that don't, even with the very best of intentions, finish up serving iniquity and not Jesus Christ at all.
I've no need to ridicule anything you say about Jesus or god, it seemsto be a problem you have, you can't get it that alll I'm asking of you is that you show where the evidence, you think you have is, only you keep on conveying the bible contains the words of god, but you refuse to enlighten us about where you have obtained the verifiable evidence that would back up this claim of yours.
I reserve the ridicule for your refusal to give a logical, rational answer, honestly, saying the bible proves the bible is true, think about it Nick, it doesn't come much more ridiculous than that; please note no ridicule of the bible but plenty of ridicule for your refusal to address the question to which I've been trying to extract an answer from you.
To date you haven't answered me Nick, all you've done is send sermon like statements that bear no relation to the question I keep trying to get you to answer, let's have the answer Nick?
ippy
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You ain't gonna get evidence, Ippy, there is none in the sense of there being anything seen or heard.
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You ain't gonna get evidence, Ippy, there is none in the sense of there being anything seen or heard.
In which case unbelief is reasonable.
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Of course.
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I write as I am inspired to write
Commonly known as 'free association', peppered with a few of your favourite buzz-words (which mean nothing).
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In which case unbelief is reasonable.
It may be to you Floo...but not to Almighty God or Jesus Christ. Disbelievers are frowned upon because Jesus died and was resurrected so that there is no excuse for not believing. The Romans and the Jews disbelieve/d in Jesus and yet his teaching is the only way into 'Heaven on Earth'. There is no other way. We can't dodge it, ridicule it, or otherwise besmirch it, because it is pulled from a science that delivers all of Almighty God's and Jesus Christ's promises to those who align themselves with righteousness. There can be no exceptions. It would be like telling a fish it must breathe oxygen from the atmosphere or a man to breathe oxygen from out of the water. We are electric/spiritual beings and all laws of science, of our emotions and of our desire for improvement are embodied in that fact. All you are saying is that you don't want any part of it and prefer the alternative...all I am saying is that the science will come to the forefront because it is accurate and many who haven't burnt their bridges will respond in due course.
It's a shame about the rest...but there we go.
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In which case unbelief is reasonable.
Whilst I don't mind the atheist misnomer being used to describe me, I'm most definitely not an unbeliever.
I have never seen anything sensible written or have heard anything sensible that would give me any reason to think that there's any such thing as a god, whatever it or that might be, so how do I become an unbeliever in something that's for me not there in the first place, to be an unbeliever in; I'm not an aunicornist either.
Nick is quite capable of saying "I haven't got any verifiable evidence that the bible contains the actual words of god or Jesus", he must know this but refuses to admit it, all he does is convey more and more obtuse unintelligible sermon like gibberish.
I can admit that I can't prove that the god idea is completely without foundation, even though there is no verifiable evidence to support the idea, what's so difficult for Nick to admit his shortcomings none of you religionists have even a shred of verifiable evidence that would support your beliefs and most of you would admit this is so but without giving up your beliefs, what's so different about Nick.
ippy
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That is quite a reasonable post imo, ippy.
Nicholas, I don't agree that there is no excuse for not believing; some people just can't believe. It never makes sense to them.
I found it difficult for a very large part of my life but I must admit I was always open to believing, and wanted to, but not at the expense of being dishonest to myself or others. Anyway let's just say the Lord caught me unawares one day but supposing that hadn't happened? Would it be my fault? I didn't put up barriers but I did need certainty; not tangible proof which is so often talked about because that isn't possible, but to know in myself, and I got that.
It might not have happened though. We'll never know.
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That is quite a reasonable post imo, ippy.
Nicholas, I don't agree that there is no excuse for not believing; some people just can't believe. It never makes sense to them.
I found it difficult for a very large part of my life but I must admit I was always open to believing, and wanted to, but not at the expense of being dishonest to myself or others. Anyway let's just say the Lord caught me unawares one day but supposing that hadn't happened? Would it be my fault? I didn't put up barriers but I did need certainty; not tangible proof which is so often talked about because that isn't possible, but to know in myself, and I got that.
It might not have happened though. We'll never know.
Sorry Brownie but: "the Lord caught me unawares one day",?
You nor anyone else has any good reason to say or write the above, no one could possibly know this kind of thing, 'I've had a series of things some would choose to say that kind of thing, that's life it happens, be content, there's no good reason to try to summon up mysterious forces, you might as well have buried a cat under the entry threshold to your home for protection from evil spirits, it would make just as much sense.
ippy
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I was relating a personal experience, ippy - just one sentence out of the entire post - not trying to persuade anyone to believe in its authenticity.
(I do have cats buried in various places in the back garden, plus ashes scattered....)
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That is quite a reasonable post imo, ippy.
Nicholas, I don't agree that there is no excuse for not believing; some people just can't believe. It never makes sense to them.
I found it difficult for a very large part of my life but I must admit I was always open to believing, and wanted to, but not at the expense of being dishonest to myself or others. Anyway let's just say the Lord caught me unawares one day but supposing that hadn't happened? Would it be my fault? I didn't put up barriers but I did need certainty; not tangible proof which is so often talked about because that isn't possible, but to know in myself, and I got that.
It might not have happened though. We'll never know.
I'ts really a question of how Almighty God and Jesus view things, Brownie.
Jesus died and was resurrected. and a wonderful book was put into existence explaining what righteousness is all about. That was the word made flesh and 2000 years have passed with that knowledge in our midst. Many dastardly deeds have resulted...and many have heard Jesus' teaching and responded to it. This was an essential part of the plan so that there was a body of righteous people to steward the new heavens and the New Earth.
God's Judgement appears to hinge upon the passing of a fiery lake of sulphur which appears to be a planetary body of some sort. Not one of us can dodge it because this rogue planet is on a crash or near crash course with us but those who are prepared to accommodate righteous teaching beforehand are promised salvation by the same mechanics which Jesus incorporated in his own salvation.
It seems we will be given notice of this forthcoming event and those who have not fallen beneath the level of sin acceptable by our God will also be saved because they will be easily converted to the science but those who don't respond, don't repent, don't show any interest in righteous comradeship, I'm afraid, will be on stony ground...just as Revelation 21:8 says. Now...many don't think there is anything after death but close examination of the Holy Bible says there is and those who aren't saved will have to take the consequences of not being saved.
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The Word made flesh was not a book - according to the ACCURATE reading of an ACCURATE translation of Scripture. "In the begining, the Word was there - the Word was with God, and the Word was God." God, NM, is not a book. He is a person - the Word - logos - incarnate, Christ Jesus.
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The Word made flesh was not a book - according to the ACCURATE reading of an ACCURATE translation of Scripture. "In the begining, the Word was there - the Word was with God, and the Word was God." God, NM, is not a book. He is a person - the Word - logos - incarnate, Christ Jesus.
That is the most ACCURATE post on this thread Anchorman.
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That is also what I have always believed. I do question whether I believe it because I was taught it and read it but I feel comfortable with the Word being Jesus.
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I was relating a personal experience, ippy - just one sentence out of the entire post - not trying to persuade anyone to believe in its authenticity.
(I do have cats buried in various places in the back garden, plus ashes scattered....)
To protect you and yours from evil spirits?
ippy
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The Word made flesh was not a book - according to the ACCURATE reading of an ACCURATE translation of Scripture. "In the begining, the Word was there - the Word was with God, and the Word was God." God, NM, is not a book. He is a person - the Word - logos - incarnate, Christ Jesus.
Thank you for that Anchorman...That is precisely what I said. The Gospels are the account of that word made flesh and they cannot be divorced from each other. Not the accurate word anyway. There are various versions which contradict what Jesus taught...this is iniquity. Please read what is written and not what is suggested even insisted upon by those who want to stamp a different account of righteousness. It is the upbuilding of an everlasting spirit into a spiritual being that, like Jesus, can give us life after death.
It's almost as if Jesus, in death, sank to the electrical prison we all go to showing us that he had snatched the keys that holds us all in it and that we too can be resurrected to a new vessel...if we follow his way, his truth and his life...but we must get it right else the science will not work.
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To protect you and yours from evil spirits?
ippy
No, they only protect other cats and frighten away foxes. Just think, when we move house, or peg, the new owners won't know they are buying a Pet Cemetary.
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I'ts really a question of how Almighty God and Jesus view things, Brownie.
Jesus died and was resurrected. and a wonderful book was put into existence explaining what righteousness is all about. That was the word made flesh and 2000 years have passed with that knowledge in our midst. Many dastardly deeds have resulted...and many have heard Jesus' teaching and responded to it. This was an essential part of the plan so that there was a body of righteous people to steward the new heavens and the New Earth.
God's Judgement appears to hinge upon the passing of a fiery lake of sulphur which appears to be a planetary body of some sort. Not one of us can dodge it because this rogue planet is on a crash or near crash course with us but those who are prepared to accommodate righteous teaching beforehand are promised salvation by the same mechanics which Jesus incorporated in his own salvation.
It seems we will be given notice of this forthcoming event and those who have not fallen beneath the level of sin acceptable by our God will also be saved because they will be easily converted to the science but those who don't respond, don't repent, don't show any interest in righteous comradeship, I'm afraid, will be on stony ground...just as Revelation 21:8 says. Now...many don't think there is anything after death but close examination of the Holy Bible says there is and those who aren't saved will have to take the consequences of not being saved.
Nick, as allways strong on ascertion, with zero factual content, you're totally unable to seperate the two, nothing like a bit of fantasy and you refuse to give a straight answer to a straight question.
Nick, where's you verifiable evidence that would, if you had any, support your strange sermons?
ippy
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No, they only protect other cats and frighten away foxes. Just think, when we move house, or peg, the new owners won't know they are buying a Pet Cemetary.
Likewise only with dogs I don't mind cats but we're dog people, the burried dog spirits chase off the cats from leaving spiritual crapp in our garden.
ippy
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Nick, as allways strong on ascertion, with zero factual content, you're totally unable to seperate the two, nothing like a bit of fantasy and you refuse to give a straight answer to a straight question.
Nick, where's you verifiable evidence that would, if you had any, support your strange sermons?
ippy
On a roll now ippy but it wont alter the truth one iota. The truth is that all universal laws resolve themselves in the 'word'...the word of Almighty God...all because everything is energy (ref A Einstein and Almighty God) and as you might expect, everything unifies in that word...including every science.
We, here on planet Earth aren't yet that advanced so we can conclude that a much more advanced people delivered this knowledge along with a few blessings and a few warnings...one of which is the warning about God's Judgement...and...guess what...like you, no one seems to believe him...or his son, Jesus Christ.
The clues indicate it's not far off.
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Thank you for that Anchorman...That is precisely what I said. The Gospels are the account of that word made flesh and they cannot be divorced from each other. Not the accurate word anyway. There are various versions which contradict what Jesus taught...this is iniquity. Please read what is written and not what is suggested even insisted upon by those who want to stamp a different account of righteousness. It is the upbuilding of an everlasting spirit into a spiritual being that, like Jesus, can give us life after death. It's almost as if Jesus, in death, sank to the electrical prison we all go to showing us that he had snatched the keys that holds us all in it and that we too can be resurrected to a new vessel...if we follow his way, his truth and his life...but we must get it right else the science will not work.
Nope. Sorry, NM, but an ACCURATE reading of the first twelve or so verses of John 1 - in an accurate translation - will show that John makes it clear that Christ - the 'logos' of God - is Himself God - not 'a god', 'a book' , a scientific dynamically energised accurate proposition, but God Himself Incarnate for us. There is no split in the Godhead, but one God, who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit - as per what most Christians accept - and, incidentally, most churches as well. https://www.oikoumene.org/en/about-us
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Nope. Sorry, NM, but an ACCURATE reading of the first twelve or so verses of John 1 - in an accurate translation - will show that John makes it clear that Christ - the 'logos' of God - is Himself God - not 'a god', 'a book' , a scientific dynamically energised accurate proposition, but God Himself Incarnate for us. There is no split in the Godhead, but one God, who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit - as per what most Christians accept - and, incidentally, most churches as well. https://www.oikoumene.org/en/about-us
I'm not going to argue this point with you Anchorman. If, as Paul told us, Jesus hadn't remained subservient to his father we would have two equal Gods so I'm not going to belittle either. But it is glaringly obvious...bearing in mind that the key to righteousness is taking things of God on face value that the written word accurately states, over and over again, that Jesus is the son of God...the image of his father.
Now...the 'word' is righteousness. God's Heavenly laws by which he controls many mansions/planets all controlled by righteousness...the 'word'...and Jesus was the word made flesh...and that word made flesh is contained in the Gospels.
I can't see the argument but I'm sure you'll find one.
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On a roll now ippy but it wont alter the truth one iota. The truth is that all universal laws resolve themselves in the 'word'...the word of Almighty God...all because everything is energy (ref A Einstein and Almighty God) and as you might expect, everything unifies in that word...including every science.
We, here on planet Earth aren't yet that advanced so we can conclude that a much more advanced people delivered this knowledge along with a few blessings and a few warnings...one of which is the warning about God's Judgement...and...guess what...like you, no one seems to believe him...or his son, Jesus Christ.
The clues indicate it's not far off.
Nick, you can assert away to your hearts content but that doesn't make any of your multiple assertions to be factual, without verifiable evidence the nonsense you and your fellow travellers keep on pushing in the way you do, every one of these utterances will continue to remain as nothing more than a load of meaningless hot air.
Doesn't it ever occur to you that your posts very rarely relate to anything anyone asks you about, it's a bit like when someone asks you, 'what do you think of the weather today' and your answer would be something like, 'guess what? They've found life at the bottom of the Marinaia Trench', or absolutely anything else unrelated to the question you've been asked
It surprises me that you seem to be so utterly and completely unaware of this failing of yours Nick.
I wonder, if you do decide to reply to this post, I wonder which part of your fluffing bible you'll pick as an answer, which of course, as usual, it wont be an answer.
Where's the verifiable evidence that supports the veracity of your bible Nick? Straight answer please Nick? No sermons needed thank you very much.
ippy
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Nick, you can assert away to your hearts content but that doesn't make any of your multiple assertions to be factual, without verifiable evidence the nonsense you and your fellow travellers keep on pushing in the way you do, every one of these utterances will continue to remain as nothing more than a load of meaningless hot air.
Doesn't it ever occur to you that your posts very rarely relate to anything anyone asks you about, it's a bit like when someone asks you, 'what do you think of the weather today' and your answer would be something like, 'guess what? They've found life at the bottom of the Marinaia Trench', or absolutely anything else unrelated to the question you've been asked
It surprises me that you seem to be so utterly and completely unaware of this failing of yours Nick.
I wonder, if you do decide to reply to this post, I wonder which part of your fluffing bible you'll pick as an answer, which of course, as usual, it wont be an answer.
Where's the verifiable evidence that supports the veracity of your bible Nick? Straight answer please Nick? No sermons needed thank you very much.
ippy
You refuse to accept solid scientific principles ippy which leads us into Bible truth...that's ok. Your questions have been answered over and over but gou refuse to acknowledge anything at all. That isn't discussion...it just means stalemate with Almighty God, Jesus Christ, righteousness and righteous science on my side.
Now...for all the rest, you must read Jesus accurately. He, not me says upbuild a righteous spirit and harness resurrection for yourselves...and death always follows genetic decay so sin is progressively leading us to that decay. Now here is the important thing...God promises to lead us to his spiritual waters...it is a quencher of thirsts that no other quencher can reach and following Jesus accurately isn't too high a price to pay for it.
You will find that this living water is all around you all the time it quenches genetic thirsts which otherwise go wild with electric starvation...and anyone with serious health problems might do well to give Jesus a try.
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You refuse to accept solid scientific principles ippy which leads us into Bible truth...that's ok. Your questions have been answered over and over but gou refuse to acknowledge anything at all. That isn't discussion...it just means stalemate with Almighty God, Jesus Christ, righteousness and righteous science on my side.
Now...for all the rest, you must read Jesus accurately. He, not me says upbuild a righteous spirit and harness resurrection for yourselves...and death always follows genetic decay so sin is progressively leading us to that decay. Now here is the important thing...God promises to lead us to his spiritual waters...it is a quencher of thirsts that no other quencher can reach and following Jesus accurately isn't too high a price to pay for it.
You will find that this living water is all around you all the time it quenches genetic thirsts which otherwise go wild with electric starvation...and anyone with serious health problems might do well to give Jesus a try.
Nick I'm not refusing anything, as soon as you supply the verifiable evidence that supports the veracity of your bible Nick, I'll convert immediately, straight answer only please Nick? No sermons needed thank you very much.
But Nick, if there's a problem because you can't find the verifiable evidence let me know and I promise I won't give you to hard a time just because you haven't got any supportive evidence , I realise once you admit it that you haven't got any verifiable evidence it means you'll be giving up on a very heavy investment that you've been making over the years, I promise you I wont take it lightly.
Now's your chance Nick, just the facts, no assertions, come on spill it all out.
ippy
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Nicholas, many of us give serious consideration to things you say; I have certainly thought about it all and found it very interesting.
You appear not to 'listen' to anything anyone says.
Please do.
No man is an island.
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Nicholas, many of us give serious consideration to things you say; I have certainly thought about it all and found it very interesting.
You appear not to 'listen' to anything anyone says.
Please do.
No man is an island.
I have tried to give you absolute truth according to the Holy Bible and according to science Brownie. I see a unification between the two and it all hinges upon a material that God calls his living waters. If everything unifies with that material including Jesus Christ's resurrection then I'm entitled to bring that knowledge into the arena and make it known how that knowledge can help us all. If no one wants to listen that is ok with me...but it is also linked to the last days of this evil system of things, and that we are living in that time should be obvious to us all.
Now if you are telling me I'm not responding to questions on the strength of another who has been answered more than adequately many times...you are mistaken.
Misleading people is the art of those who don't like God and I'm afraid I'm not one of those.
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I have tried to give you absolute truth according to the Holy Bible and according to science Brownie. I see a unification between the two and it all hinges upon a material that God calls his living waters. If everything unifies with that material including Jesus Christ's resurrection then I'm entitled to bring that knowledge into the arena and make it known how that knowledge can help us all. If no one wants to listen that is ok with me...but it is also linked to the last days of this evil system of things, and that we are living in that time should be obvious to us all.
Now if you are telling me I'm not responding to questions on the strength of another who has been answered more than adequately many times...you are mistaken.
Misleading people is the art of those who don't like God and I'm afraid I'm not one of those.
Are you taking your definition of 'Living Waters' from John, NM?
If you are, then you acknowlege Christ is God....because He is the One who mentions 'living water' - however your interpretation of the phrase is, er, unique.
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Just a heads up, NM. Christ uses the phrase 'living water' to mean, not some 'dynamic energy' - as a corrupt mistranslation of the Bible has it, but the person of God we know as the Holy Spirit. Not 'Person', NM. Scripture always declares His personhood, not a force, pseudoscientific idea, energy, but a Person - the third person of the Godhead. Here's the CHRISTIAN view: https://gotquestions.org/living-water.html
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Are you taking your definition of 'Living Waters' from John, NM?
If you are, then you acknowlege Christ is God....because He is the One who mentions 'living water' - however your interpretation of the phrase is, er, unique.
God's Living Waters is the root cause of the entire work of the Holy Bible because it's the root cause of the universe and all the sciences in it...This means that when Almighty God says in the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth he is saying that the entire process that created the universe did so at his/God's behest. We now have a material that can be atoms, stars, galaxies, the scientific principles contained within those structures and everything that their chemistry leads all this material/energy into becoming.
Almighty God then used this material in the construction of life and Jesus showed us how to harness this material for our own health and welfare which includes repair, resurrection and, ultimately everlasting life...all we have to do is follow Jesus Christ accurately and claim what is on offer...regardless of what life throws at us.
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Just a heads up, NM. Christ uses the phrase 'living water' to mean, not some 'dynamic energy' - as a corrupt mistranslation of the Bible has it, but the person of God we know as the Holy Spirit. Not 'Person', NM. Scripture always declares His personhood, not a force, pseudoscientific idea, energy, but a Person - the third person of the Godhead. Here's the CHRISTIAN view: https://gotquestions.org/living-water.html
I get all my support from the Holy Bible, and from righteous exploration, according to Jesus' accurate teaching, Anchorman.
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Oh, and you'd better not read this link, NM - because it is a very scholarly, accurate reading of Jesus' scandalous shout in John 7 - and the commentator makes it clear that the 'scandal' was Jesus doing something only God would do, and taking the place of God Himself whilst doing it. Were He anyone other than God, this would be blasphemy by any category you choose. https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/John/Jesus-Source-Living-Water-All
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I have tried to give you absolute truth according to the Holy Bible and according to science Brownie. I see a unification between the two and it all hinges upon a material that God calls his living waters. If everything unifies with that material including Jesus Christ's resurrection then I'm entitled to bring that knowledge into the arena and make it known how that knowledge can help us all. If no one wants to listen that is ok with me...but it is also linked to the last days of this evil system of things, and that we are living in that time should be obvious to us all.
Now if you are telling me I'm not responding to questions on the strength of another who has been answered more than adequately many times...you are mistaken.
Misleading peoeple is the art of those who don't like God and I'm afraid I'm not one of those.
If you are trying to apply the absolute truth, then obviously you're not trying hard enough, like this post of yours, I'd like to understand it but like your fellow believers none of us are able to get our heads around what looks like and amounts to words that could be taken as little more than demented ramblings.
You seem to think you're writing answers to other posters, you are not answering anyone, none of your words are making any sense and you are getting worse, most people you refer to as atheists do not dislike your god, we just don't think there is a god yours or anyone elses anywhere to dislike, there's nothing there, we think it's so unlikely that there is any such thing as a god the whole idea of gods isn't worth the bother.
Take a deep breath before you write anything else and then when you write your next post see if you can make it understandable, best without references to electricity or rightiousness, these two referrences are inclined to turn you into a figure of derission.
ippy
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Oh, and you'd better not read this link, NM - because it is a very scholarly, accurate reading of Jesus' scandalous shout in John 7 - and the commentator makes it clear that the 'scandal' was Jesus doing something only God would do, and taking the place of God Himself whilst doing it. Were He anyone other than God, this would be blasphemy by any category you choose. https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/John/Jesus-Source-Living-Water-All
It is more righteously acceptable to read here that Almighty God's direct agent...his son, Jesus Christ, no less, told those who would listen that God's Living Waters is something quite special, beneficial to those seeking righteousness, and is spiritual in nature. It is all around us all the time and whilst many live their lives in ignorance of it, cutting themselves off from its refreshing fruits, and from quenching of our deepest genetic thirsts, those who follow the 'word made flesh' can become reattached...but only by following Jesus accurately...You see how science keeps creeping in to that righteous 'word.' We must get it right...and I can tell you that much of what is written in the Holy Bible and which is repeated over and over is somewhat different to what is encouraged...as if it has no real value...iniquity...and we can't follow iniquity and think somehow we are following Jesus no matter how many times we speak his name.
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If you are trying to apply the absolute truth, then obviously you're not trying hard enough, like this post of yours, I'd like to understand it but like your fellow believers none of us are able to get our heads around what looks like and amounts to words that could be taken as little more than demented ramblings.
You seem to think you're writing answers to other posters, you are not answering anyone, none of your words are making any sense and you are getting worse, most people you refer to as atheists do not dislike your god, we just don't think there is a god yours or anyone elses anywhere to dislike, there's nothing there, we think it's so unlikely that there is any such thing as a god the whole idea of gods isn't worth the bother.
Take a deep breath before you write anything else and then when you write your next post see if you can make it understandable, best without references to electricity or rightiousness, these two referrences are inclined to turn you into a figure of derission.
iipy
ippy...when you can prove to me that there isn't a superabundant, invisible material contained within this universe which science claims exists and God claims exists and which, by my calculations, must be the raw material from which everything else is made from then I'll still believe in Almighty God and Jesus Christ because it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to me...and I have the science to prove it. Now atheism is well known to keep condemning God and Jesus Christ and anyone and everyone who aligns with them...so I don't think your remarks have any serious consideration attached to them.
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ippy...when you can prove to me that there isn't a superabundant, invisible material contained within this universe which science claims exists and God claims exists and which, by my calculations, must be the raw material from which everything else is made from then I'll still believe in Almighty God and Jesus Christ because it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to me...and I have the science to prove it. Now atheism is well known to keep condemning God and Jesus Christ and anyone and everyone who aligns with them...so I don't think your remarks have any serious consideration attached to them.
This is another potty load of drivel Nick, I'll explain where you've gone wrong, yet again, later I'm going out now.
ippy
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Nicholas, why don't you join in with posters on threads in non-religious sections?
Jesus socialised and I doubt if he talked about his heavenly father all the time, he was an all round person.
It would be nice for us to see other sides of you.
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Nicholas, why don't you join in with posters on threads in non-religious sections?
Jesus socialised and I doubt if he talked about his heavenly father all the time, he was an all round person.
It would be nice for us to see other sides of you.
I have asked him to do that too.
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NM: I've had dealings with Christian denominations from Orthodox to Pentecostals. I've dialogued with groups such as the JWs, Mormons and Unitarians, who claim to be Christian, but are not, by any definition I recognise, believers. Your take on the Scripture is unique. Throwing stuff like 'electric', 'dynamic', 'scientific' etc, into every sentence - when they are not in any recognised Scripture or translation, makes your argument mot only incomprehensible, but useless as a tool of evangelism. I honestly do not know where your ideas come from - but they do not accord in any way with Scripture or Christian apologetics as we know them. You seem incapable of examining the possibility of the personhood of the Holy Spirit, the divinity of Christ, etc - mainstream Christian doctrines for millennia, every one of them.
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I have asked him to do that too.
Yes I remember you saying that. I wish he would but we can't force him and have given up on all this now, it has ceased to be of interest. Plenty of other threads, as we have said :D.
However, I have to say, again, imo too much is being made of belief or non-belief in the Trinity. It seems to be a sticking point for many.
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NM: I've had dealings with Christian denominations from Orthodox to Pentecostals. I've dialogued with groups such as the JWs, Mormons and Unitarians, who claim to be Christian, but are not, by any definition I recognise, believers. Your take on the Scripture is unique. Throwing stuff like 'electric', 'dynamic', 'scientific' etc, into every sentence - when they are not in any recognised Scripture or translation, makes your argument mot only incomprehensible, but useless as a tool of evangelism. I honestly do not know where your ideas come from - but they do not accord in any way with Scripture or Christian apologetics as we know them. You seem incapable of examining the possibility of the personhood of the Holy Spirit, the divinity of Christ, etc - mainstream Christian doctrines for millennia, every one of them.
There is a lot of knowledge, all gleaned from the Holy Bible in everything I say, Anchorman. It's sad that you are unable to understand it but I'm afraid that understanding what Jesus lived for, died for, and was resurrected for, is of paramount importance because it leads to a profound understanding which, like Jesus and Almighty God say, will lead to everlasting life.
You see...the state of the world today, with all its wars, ill health, confusion and distress is the net result of evil with its co-conspirator...iniquity...but studying, as an individual, Jesus' exact teaching is the only way to God's Living Waters and that is a path that takes us in the opposite direction to the consequences evil.
You may not think God's spiritual energy as gleaned by following righteousness is of any use to you but it is the product of an indestructible energy which we can harness and train into an indestructible spirit...and this will prove on Judgement day how obedient to righteousness we've been.
Following Jesus accurately isn't a chore...it is a way of eliminating falsehoods out of indoctrination and iniquity is the worlds worst at indoctrination.
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Dear Jim,
Mainstream Christian Doctrine!! To be perfectly honest I get more out of a NicholasMarks post than all the other Christians on this forum, sorry to be blunt Jim but your post reads like a "my way or the highway" which is one of the main reasons I don't attend Church regularly, to many so called Christians pointing the finger and saying "oh your not one of us".
To end my little rantette I will leave you with a fact, a fact you can't get over, under, around, the Holy Bible is not some old dusty tome that you should read and then forget, it is there to make you think, to awaken the old grey cells, to take you down paths of new enlightenment, so if for one poster it shouts electric, scientific, dynamic, then more power to that posters elbow.
Gonnagle.
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Dear Jim,
Mainstream Christian Doctrine!! To be perfectly honest I get more out of a NicholasMarks post than all the other Christians on this forum, sorry to be blunt Jim but your post reads like a "my way or the highway" which is one of the main reasons I don't attend Church regularly, to many so called Christians pointing the finger and saying "oh your not one of us".
To end my little rantette I will leave you with a fact, a fact you can't get over, under, around, the Holy Bible is not some old dusty tome that you should read and then forget, it is there to make you think, to awaken the old grey cells, to take you down paths of new enlightenment, so if for one poster it shouts electric, scientific, dynamic, then more power to that posters elbow.
Gonnagle.
If you're looking for strict doctrine - don't go to Kirk!
We accept 'liberality of conscience, Gonners - but there are limits.
Like all Christian denominations I know, we accept the Apostles Creed - grounded - accurately - in Scripture.
That's what unites us; all the bells, smells, robes, candles, hymns etc are just icing on the cake.
The fact is that NM's 'scientific electric righteousness' does not appear in any Scripture or translion or even paraphrase with which I'm familiar.
It might be on the Klingon one (yes, there IS a version in Klingon. Why? Don't ask me!)
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If you're looking for strict doctrine - don't go to Kirk!
We accept 'liberality of conscience, Gonners - but there are limits.
Like all Christian denominations I know, we accept the Apostles Creed - grounded - accurately - in Scripture.
That's what unites us; all the bells, smells, robes, candles, hymns etc are just icing on the cake.
The fact is that NM's 'scientific electric righteousness' does not appear in any Scripture or translion or even paraphrase with which I'm familiar.
It might be on the Klingon one (yes, there IS a version in Klingon. Why? Don't ask me!)
Thanks for that Gonnagle...at the moment I feel a little like Jesus must have when he said of the Jews, I wanted to pull you all to me but you wouldn't listen.
If you read your Holy Bible a little more accurately Anchorman you will find that Jesus fed you on baby food because you wouldn't understand him...I'm feeding you solids and don't expect me to get too concerned for anyone who is watching all this distress on the tele, unfolding, and is arguing the toss about how we might prepare for salvation and bringing God's righteous teaching into this modern era...especially when I stick exclusively to Jesus' righteous teaching.
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Dear Jim,
Mainstream Christian Doctrine!! To be perfectly honest I get more out of a NicholasMarks post than all the other Christians on this forum, sorry to be blunt Jim but your post reads like a "my way or the highway" which is one of the main reasons I don't attend Church regularly, to many so called Christians pointing the finger and saying "oh your not one of us".
To end my little rantette I will leave you with a fact, a fact you can't get over, under, around, the Holy Bible is not some old dusty tome that you should read and then forget, it is there to make you think, to awaken the old grey cells, to take you down paths of new enlightenment, so if for one poster it shouts electric, scientific, dynamic, then more power to that posters elbow.
Gonnagle.
How about people with cancer because they have sinned, Gonzo? You think that stating that needs more power to someone's elbow?
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Thanks for that Gonnagle...at the moment I feel a little like Jesus must have when he said of the Jews, I wanted to pull you all to me but you wouldn't listen.
If you read your Holy Bible a little more accurately Anchorman you will find that Jesus fed you on baby food because you wouldn't understand him...I'm feeding you solids and don't expect me to get too concerned for anyone who is watching all this distress on the tele, unfolding, and is arguing the toss about how we might prepare for salvation and bringing God's righteous teaching into this modern era...especially when I stick exclusively to Jesus' righteous teaching.
More utter tripe and it looks to me you're continuing to think of yourself as some sort of martyr enduring some kind of trial that only exsists inside your totally indoctrinated mind.
ippy
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How about people with cancer because they have sinned, Gonzo? You think that stating that needs more power to someone's elbow?
Jesus, himself without sin showed us how to live without sin...and also how to repair from sin. Sin isn't just doing bad acts...it is wasting our righteous strength...and there aren't many alive today who don't. Our righteous strength is the powerhouse of our body and wasting it not only damages our own genetics we pass that damage to subsequent generations. One of our biggest problems is mind over matter. We strive to achieve results by mental effort instead of muscular effort and this leaves us emotionally fatigued.
It's a very big science which shows that exhausted body-cells not in receipt of its fair share of nervous stimulation will go wild, cancerous, so it is wise to take Jesus Christ very seriously indeed.
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So what about the multitude of disabled Christians, then? Where did they - we - go wrong? Can I cite paraplegic Joni Earickson Tada - a fantastic evangelist and example of Christian living whom I;m proud to call a friend? Or my friend singer/songwriter and Christian writer Marilyn Baker, who has used her disability for the Kingdom? Or myself, a believer in the Triune God, and used by Him despite a few disabling ailments, one of which will worsen with the years? Where does your nonsense - and, NM, that is what iyt is - fit in?
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Jesus, himself without sin showed us how to live without sin...and also how to repair from sin. Sin isn't just doing bad acts...it is wasting our righteous strength...and there aren't many alive today who don't. Our righteous strength is the powerhouse of our body and wasting it not only damages our own genetics we pass that damage to subsequent generations. One of our biggest problems is mind over matter. We strive to achieve results by mental effort instead of muscular effort and this leaves us emotionally fatigued.
It's a very big science which shows that exhausted body-cells not in receipt of its fair share of nervous stimulation will go wild, cancerous, so it is wise to take Jesus Christ very seriously indeed.
You waste your strength by continually writing your senseless utterences here on th forum.
Ippy
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You waste your strength by continually writing your senseless utterences here on th forum.
Ippy
God's energy is free to all who approach it righteously. Its power repairs our genetics...or, put another way...quenches thirsts that otherwise cannot be reached...so I reckon I'm getting along fine. Don't concern yourself with me even though I might concern myself for you...it's all in a days work.
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So what about the multitude of disabled Christians, then? Where did they - we - go wrong? Can I cite paraplegic Joni Earickson Tada - a fantastic evangelist and example of Christian living whom I;m proud to call a friend? Or my friend singer/songwriter and Christian writer Marilyn Baker, who has used her disability for the Kingdom? Or myself, a believer in the Triune God, and used by Him despite a few disabling ailments, one of which will worsen with the years? Where does your nonsense - and, NM, that is what iyt is - fit in?
Many people feel lifted when they are in a group and feel that something wonderful has happened...notably at a football match when your team wins. Righteousness is conserving that energy and not wasting it. Upbuilding a righteous spirit from it because an unrighteous spirit gets trapped in the ether. Jesus Christ is the one to follow. Even if others want to follow him as well it's not wise to break away from his teaching by common consent because few understand righteousness as he does.
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That, NM, is not an answer. It isn't even an attempt at an answer. To help you revise your witterings, here's an article on Christians and disability. Clue: It comes from an 'accurate'. 'righteous'. look at Scripture. It should be right up your street, then. http://www.bethinking.org/human-life/a-biblical-view-of-disability Please read and respond.
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God's energy is free to all who approach it righteously. Its power repairs our genetics...or, put another way...quenches thirsts that otherwise cannot be reached...so I reckon I'm getting along fine. Don't concern yourself with me even though I might concern myself for you...it's all in a days work.
Even your fellow religious believers see you as cracked Nick, not just me.
It would be good to see you writing something with a bit of sense attached to it, insted of all of your, not much more than schoolboy nonsense.
ippy
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It would be good to see Nicholas talking about something non-religious, like music, TV, sport, or books. Even the weather or what he's doing for Christmas.
No doubt Nicholas will have a big star on top of the Christmas tree and maybe a few smaller ones dotted about.
An angel perhaps but no fairies.
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While I wait (patiently) for his response, I'd be interested in NM's take on Christmas - given that the JWs, whom he admires, but is not a part of, reject it (though they used to embrace it)
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That, NM, is not an answer. It isn't even an attempt at an answer. To help you revise your witterings, here's an article on Christians and disability. Clue: It comes from an 'accurate'. 'righteous'. look at Scripture. It should be right up your street, then. http://www.bethinking.org/human-life/a-biblical-view-of-disability Please read and respond.
What we have to realise Anchorman is that Jesus delivered everything we need to know about disability. I’m not free from light disabilities and don’t wish to be dismissive of them. If we say that Adam and Eve were born perfect and death came into the world because of sin…we know straightaway that the passage to death is littered with sin…and as we know that everyone who dies from sin aren’t always themselves nasty sinners, then we know we haven’t really grasped what sin is.
Almighty God knows that we lose track of our sins so that whilst our health fails because of them we have lost track of the path of its destruction…hence, Jesus Christ, the perfect example for following and thereby achieving the best results from paying back for our sins, bearing in mind that the disabilities build up slowly, cross generations and can be soul destroying…so, it’s wise to follow the pattern that Jesus taught us and this can be identified as not wasting our inner nervous strength and turning it into righteous strength with our own profile firmly stamped upon it.
If we knew how the living cell replicates we would know what goes wrong. We know it’s often our influence because perfectly healthy cells can suddenly become rogue cells and become cancerous…Well, if we pool together all the knowledge gleaned from the Holy Bible we find that sin is wasting our inner, righteous strength. We get worked up, do things that are wasteful of it, we waste it chasing rainbows, we waste it seeking false idols, going down false paths and feeding false relationships. Evil has a knack of driving us by fear and deceit and these are wasteful losses of our spiritual strength which is delivered via the same root as our nervous strength. As we waste it our glands and organs get more and more tired and our morale slumps drastically…so…following Jesus is a way round all this and gain resurrection to a new vessel into the bargain…that’s how it is revealed to me and I learn more and more about it every day.
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Your lack of understanding of the scope of disability is matched only by your complete inability to read and interpret Scripture 'accurately', I'm afraid. Many, many disabled Christians - myself included, do not recognise one iota of the Chriastian faith in your post.
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Your lack of understanding of the scope of disability is matched only by your complete inability to read and interpret Scripture 'accurately', I'm afraid. Many, many disabled Christians - myself included, do not recognise one iota of the Chriastian faith in your post.
That's sad Anchorman, not unexpected, but sad.
You see, when your scientists issue a new drug...which often, the evidence suggests, may or may not work...it will have a huge fan-fare and everyone will want some. Well I too have a new medicine to offer. Not because I'm clever but because Almighty God and his much loved son are clever...they have realised and delivered this knowledge to us but because its free it seems we don't want it. It is God's living Waters. Only available through righteousness because, like the lilies in the valley, we have to achieve that same radio frequency which unthinking life hits automatically and by meekness, humility, righteous respect for our deity and wholesome prayer we can achieve that right harmonious note.
We are told it quenches thirsts that no other quencher can reach...but you will never know unless you give it a try.
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Nick: You bang on about cancer, illness, disability, etc. Do you have any scientific knowledge of these issues? Any experience of Christians with disabilities, life limiting or terminal illness? Because your posts make no sense, and are in no way shape or form Christian thinking. Can I respectfully suggest you google Joni Earickson-Tada? She's paraplegic, and has battled cancer - a double whammy. I first met her in 1980, and have met her a few times since - and I'm in touch with her. Her books, talks, paintings, songs; her ministry amongst Christians of all abilities gives her a far better witness to faith and disability than mine can ever be. There are umpteen sites - and her books are on Amazon and a must for anyone interested in the subject. Try googling 'Joni and friends' - that should open your eyes - if it doesn't, nothing will. Meanwhile, here's an article from the secular Time magazine which should give you pause for thought. http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2016484,00.html
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That's sad Anchorman, not unexpected, but sad.
You see, when your scientists issue a new drug...which often, the evidence suggests, may or may not work...it will have a huge fan-fare and everyone will want some. Well I too have a new medicine to offer. Not because I'm clever but because Almighty God and his much loved son are clever...they have realised and delivered this knowledge to us but because its free it seems we don't want it. It is God's living Waters. Only available through righteousness because, like the lilies in the valley, we have to achieve that same radio frequency which unthinking life hits automatically and by meekness, humility, righteous respect for our deity and wholesome prayer we can achieve that right harmonious note.
We are told it quenches thirsts that no other quencher can reach...but you will never know unless you give it a try.
Do you really believe the guff you just posted, NM?
As someone with a few disabilities, I can tell you that 'balderdash' doesn't even come close.
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Nick: You bang on about cancer, illness, disability, etc. Do you have any scientific knowledge of these issues? Any experience of Christians with disabilities, life limiting or terminal illness? Because your posts make no sense, and are in no way shape or form Christian thinking. Can I respectfully suggest you google Joni Earickson-Tada? She's paraplegic, and has battled cancer - a double whammy. I first met her in 1980, and have met her a few times since - and I'm in touch with her. Her books, talks, paintings, songs; her ministry amongst Christians of all abilities gives her a far better witness to faith and disability than mine can ever be. There are umpteen sites - and her books are on Amazon and a must for anyone interested in the subject. Try googling 'Joni and friends' - that should open your eyes - if it doesn't, nothing will. Meanwhile, here's an article from the secular Time magazine which should give you pause for thought. http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2016484,00.html
It strikes me you are getting yourself a little worked up Anchorman and so I think its time to quieten it down again a little. Jesus Christ is the best witness for Jesus Christ's teaching and all I'm saying is follow his teaching accurately.
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Nope. I'm not worked up in the slightest. I'm appalled at your lack of understanding of basic Christian teaching, and failure to read Scripture with any accuracy. You haven't googled Joni, yet - you can't have; there are so many sites which mention her.
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Nope. I'm not worked up in the slightest. I'm appalled at your lack of understanding of basic Christian teaching, and failure to read Scripture with any accuracy. You haven't googled Joni, yet - you can't have; there are so many sites which mention her.
Just in case.... Joni & Friends. http://www.joniandfriends.org/
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It would be good to see Nicholas talking about something non-religious, like music, TV, sport, or books. Even the weather or what he's doing for Christmas.
No doubt Nicholas will have a big star on top of the Christmas tree and maybe a few smaller ones dotted about.
An angel perhaps but no fairies.
Brownie, if you do ask him about anything as you say you'd only get another sermon that had nothing to do with whatever you have asked him.
I reckon it's possible he's been or is a pot smoker, this habit can be mind altering, in his case it could be the cause of his religious mania; I would like to be wrong but whatever it is causing this religious extremism of his; it certainly needs to be sorted out, for his sake, I no longer see his problem as any kind of a laughing matter.
ippy
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It's a single mindedness that I have seen in some other people, about various issues. There's nothing we can do about it. Sometimes it passes.
I've always quite liked Nicholas and did at first enjoy reading his posts, they made me think about things from a different angle, but now it's too much for me.
Well, that could be my problem more than his! I don't have to read the posts after all, there are plenty of others.
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My biggest beef with NM is that vulnerable people might be frightened by his wormwood silliness!
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My biggest beef with NM is that vulnerable people might be frightened by his wormwood silliness!
If you want to be worried by anything Floo I suggest you start by listening to your news bulletins. The horrendous bombing...the millions of dispossessed people...the scheming governments behind all this distress. The fact that the Holy Bible foretells us of a great commotion which will settle all issues is being spoken of from many YouTube sources with amazing evidence to support them...Me...I'm guilty as charged...its all in the Holy Bible...everyone reading Revelation is told about these times in loud and poignant words. The folly is in not taking them seriously...still...I'm just telling you how to protect yourselves from it all...proven by Jesus Christ himself...but you seem to forget that that was horrific beyond words as well. Oh, I forgot, you get your kicks out of ridiculing it.
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Just in case.... Joni & Friends. http://www.joniandfriends.org/
Bumped for NM
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is being spoken of from many YouTube sources with amazing evidence to support them...
Evidence? No.
Supporting evidence? Definitely not.
Accurate evidence? You are having a laugh.
Amazing evidence? OK, for the gullible, those fooled by the online shysters, maybe!
::)
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Just in case.... Joni & Friends. http://www.joniandfriends.org/
A great organisation Anchorman. I'm sure Jesus is proud of them...but I still maintain that Jesus was teaching us a science which is more beneficial because his teaching uses the science that injures our genetics and reverses it, to soothe, calm and rest them. It tells us how to maintain a healthy level of energy within the framework of our flesh and blood and how to reach out for worthwhile things which bring our own living-cells replicating processes into a healthier format.
You don't have to take a blind bit of notice of me to do it...but you must follow Jesus' teaching accurately which is a science built upon the highest spiritual knowledge and everlasting life has to include repair from all our illnesses else it is invalid and Jesus' teaching is anything but invalid.
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A great organisation Anchorman. I'm sure Jesus is proud of them...but I still maintain that Jesus was teaching us a science which is more beneficial because his teaching uses the science that injures our genetics and reverses it, to soothe, calm and rest them. It tells us how to maintain a healthy level of energy within the framework of our flesh and blood and how to reach out for worthwhile things which bring our own living-cells replicating processes into a healthier format.
You don't have to take a blind bit of notice of me to do it...but you must follow Jesus' teaching accurately which is a science built upon the highest spiritual knowledge and everlasting life has to include repair from all our illnesses else it is invalid and Jesus' teaching is anything but invalid.
So, your theories about illness, disability, etc, have diddly squat to do with Christ, faith or anything resembling either Christ's teaching or, for that matter, science.
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Evidence? No.
Supporting evidence? Definitely not.
Accurate evidence? You are having a laugh.
Amazing evidence? OK, for the gullible, those fooled by the online shysters, maybe!
::)
With evidence you start with the absolute, proven facts, and work backwards to what might be causing them...provable facts like...climate change, earthquakes, wild flooding, major die-offs, unusual magnetic disturbances, scientific data saying all planets in this solar system becoming disturbed and agitated, governments and peoples making special and extreme preparations. The causes can be restricted to just a few and top of the list is rogue bodies/planets crashing into our solar system and besides of there being a good account of it in Revelations there are many observers gathering information about them.
It's one of those things whereby we can simply ignore it else take precautions. The easiest of those precautions is to follow the teaching of he that told us how to deal with all mishaps...that is...follow his teaching accurately. If you can't it just means you will fail God's Judgement and as sad as that may be there will be many that wont.
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So, your theories about illness, disability, etc, have diddly squat to do with Christ, faith or anything resembling either Christ's teaching or, for that matter, science.
I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion Anchorman...but I'm sure you can see that the accurate teaching is what he told us and we have an obligation to follow him accurately...especially when the sins of our fathers and forefathers have cocked it up for us. Still...at least you have been made aware of the potential of Jesus' teaching...the rest is up to you.
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It might be worth another try, well here we go:
Nick, without referring to the bible in any way, get that? Without referring to the bible in any way Nick, what verifiable evidence have you got that can confirm all of the magical, mystical and superstition based parts written about in the bible did in reality actually happen.
I know you have trouble with straight answers Nick, but do your best please and let me and all of the others have as straight an answer as you can manage to the above, that would be lovely, thank you in advance.
ippy
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It might be worth another try, well here we go:
Nick, without referring to the bible in any way, get that? Without referring to the bible in any way Nick, what verifiable evidence have you got that can confirm all of the magical, mystical and superstition based parts written about in the bible did in reality actually happen.
I know you have trouble with straight answers Nick, but do your best please and let me and all of the others have as straight an answer as you can manage to the above, that would be lovely, thank you in advance.
ippy
Again ippy...your conditions aren't of any merit because you refuse to listen to any reasoning.
For some reason you refuse to accept that all that energy which science says exists couldn't have a greater purpose than science can yet understand and by following a certain scientific direction its full impact on our sciences can be made known. All entirely built on top of modern science with Biblical guidance where both sources are telling a similar story.
I'm not hopeful that you can understand this but few could grasp 'Relativity' either, could they??
Notice how respectful I respond to you...give it a try yourself...sometime.
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NM you don't use any reasoning where religion is concerned!
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Again ippy...your conditions aren't of any merit because you refuse to listen to any reasoning.
For some reason you refuse to accept that all that energy which science says exists couldn't have a greater purpose than science can yet understand and by following a certain scientific direction its full impact on our sciences can be made known. All entirely built on top of modern science with Biblical guidance where both sources are telling a similar story.
I'm not hopeful that you can understand this but few could grasp 'Relativity' either, could they??
Notice how respectful I respond to you...give it a try yourself...sometime.
What's the problem Nick, no answer again, I didn't ask you anything about science, energy or relativity, all I was asking from you was as follows:
Without referring to the bible in any way, get that? Without referring to the bible in any way Nick, what verifiable evidence have you got that can confirm all of the magical, mystical and superstition based parts written about in the bible did in reality actually happen.
You're unable to supply any verifiable evidence so you write about anything else other than an answer, rather than admit you haven't got any verifiable evidence that would stand up to scrutiny.
ippy
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scientific data saying all planets in this solar system becoming disturbed and agitated,
Lets start with the absolute provable fact surrounding this one.
What is the scientific data to which you refer?
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What's the problem Nick, no answer again, I didn't ask you anything about science, energy or relativity, all I was asking from you was as follows:
Without referring to the bible in any way, get that? Without referring to the bible in any way Nick, what verifiable evidence have you got that can confirm all of the magical, mystical and superstition based parts written about in the bible did in reality actually happen.
You're unable to supply any verifiable evidence so you write about anything else other than an answer, rather than admit you haven't got any verifiable evidence that would stand up to scrutiny.
ippy
You must think that this technique of yours is new ippy. It isn't. Just keep throwing the same objections without any consideration what-so-ever to the facts. By rights I should just ignore you but I have a big message to pass on and arguing the toss with snipers of the truth has a useful purpose for my Deity. It might just save one person from the inevitable distress that is getting closer as we argue.
It is an electric universe that triggers all science by way of the conflicts between this high-speed electric energy and the static universe that lies beneath it. This is why people speak of experiences whereby time slips...or they travel hundreds of miles in minutes without any obvious reason...or how space craft can perform amazing maneuvers...or even what causes the gravity manipulations attached to the poltergeist effect...and much more besides.
It's of no consequence to me who are saved and who isn't...I just try to make everyone aware so that those saved will know there is plenty more to the science than just resurrection...and that they have earned the right to that science because of their faith in Jesus Christ.
Now...you might just fool me by saying something different than...yerrrr...but ow does that prove the bible exists wiv owt using the bible.
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Lets start with the absolute provable fact surrounding this one.
What is the scientific data to which you refer?
You have a peculiar knack Seb of wanting others to do your research for you. You will soon know as much of what is written in the Holy Bible as any serious Bible student and you wont have even opened one up.
You have the same sources of information I have...you know the level of evidence that is acceptable to you...seek it out and you will find it because scientific sources are making it known for those who look.
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We know the documents making up the Bible exist, but that isn't the question! All you are making us aware of is your take on the Bible. You have never offered any verifiable evidence the way you see it has any credence.
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You have a peculiar knack Seb of wanting others to do your research for you. You will soon know as much of what is written in the Holy Bible as any serious Bible student and you wont have even opened one up.
You have the same sources of information I have...you know the level of evidence that is acceptable to you...seek it out and you will find it because scientific sources are making it known for those who look.
I have looked and found none.
I presume that you have some so what is it?
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I have looked and found none.
I presume that you have some so what is it?
No Seb...the evidence is out there and you are welcome to look for it...I've given up holding peoples hand when they can't be bothered. I'm trying to guide those who will listen back to righteousness but if they don't want to, well, that's up to them.
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I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion Anchorman...but I'm sure you can see that the accurate teaching is what he told us and we have an obligation to follow him accurately...especially when the sins of our fathers and forefathers have cocked it up for us. Still...at least you have been made aware of the potential of Jesus' teaching...the rest is up to you.
I arrived at that conclusion from the POV of a disabled Christian who has read Scriptures - accurately - without trying to throw in language which has not a jot or tittle to do with either Scripture or science, NM.
Simple.
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No Seb...the evidence is out there and you are welcome to look for it...I've given up holding peoples hand when they can't be bothered. I'm trying to guide those who will listen back to righteousness but if they don't want to, well, that's up to them.
I said I looked for it. I didn't find any. You can't supply any. It is therefore evident that it does not exist
You have no arguement.
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You must think that this technique of yours is new ippy. It isn't. Just keep throwing the same objections without any consideration what-so-ever to the facts. By rights I should just ignore you but I have a big message to pass on and arguing the toss with snipers of the truth has a useful purpose for my Deity. It might just save one person from the inevitable distress that is getting closer as we argue.
It is an electric universe that triggers all science by way of the conflicts between this high-speed electric energy and the static universe that lies beneath it. This is why people speak of experiences whereby time slips...or they travel hundreds of miles in minutes without any obvious reason...or how space craft can perform amazing maneuvers...or even what causes the gravity manipulations attached to the poltergeist effect...and much more besides.
It's of no consequence to me who are saved and who isn't...I just try to make everyone aware so that those saved will know there is plenty more to the science than just resurrection...and that they have earned the right to that science because of their faith in Jesus Christ.
Now...you might just fool me by saying something different than...yerrrr...but ow does that prove the bible exists wiv owt using the bible.
I've got the first part of your message that you don't answer the questions asked of you, you're democratic I'll give you that, democratic in so much as you don't answer anyone properly, you don't reserve your non-answers for me alone.
If you were to think things out carefully, if, as you say, you're trying to pass over some obscure message, it might lend some credibility to your cause if occasionaly your replies, replies a loose term in your case, were at least relevent to the questions asked.
At the moment your answers are so far away and irrelevent, you spoil your own case, so if as it seems and you say you have an agenda, frankly the words you use where it should be you answering someones legitimate question come over as another load of silly meaningless words and again you can't be taken seriously because you've sabotaged your own your own agenda, by not having the decency to give a straight answer.
Take us seriously and you never know Nick, we'll probably start to take you seriously it should work both ways Nick.
ippy
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I arrived at that conclusion from the POV of a disabled Christian who has read Scriptures - accurately - without trying to throw in language which has not a jot or tittle to do with either Scripture or science, NM.
Simple.
The accurate teaching of Jesus Christ is what he said and did...not me, Anchorman. I could go out on a limb and show you how iniquity harnesses the good will of many but in fact is feeding the creators of iniquity...but I wont.
There is no reason why you can't look for that truth in parallel with others who are not seeking that level of accuracy but as our own righteous spirit is needed for all righteous improvement we must all try for it because no righteous spirit means no resurrection to everlasting life...and the alternative isn't anything I would wish on anyone.
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I've got the first part of your message that you don't answer the questions asked of you, you're democratic I'll give you that, democratic in so much as you don't answer anyone properly, you don't reserve your non-answers for me alone.
If you were to think things out carefully, if, as you say, you're trying to pass over some obscure message, it might lend some credibility to your cause if occasionaly your replies, replies a loose term in your case, were at least relevent to the questions asked.
At the moment your answers are so far away and irrelevent, you spoil your own case, so if as it seems and you say you have an agenda, frankly the words you use where it should be you answering someones legitimate question come over as another load of silly meaningless words and again you can't be taken seriously because you've sabotaged your own your own agenda, by not having the decency to give a straight answer.
Take us seriously and you never know Nick, we'll probably start to take you seriously it should work both ways Nick.
ippy
On no ippy...I wasn't trained in seeing through the evil art of circular argument not to see it when it is being used against me. It is a significant point to make here because I have a wider interest in this tactic.
We each have a level of emotional/electric/nervous/spiritual strength...but when it is lost we are depressed and our health begins to malfunction and the more it goes on the more serious those health problems become...I witnessed this in an industrial environment and realised in a way that was proven over and over again that this electric force is robbed by bully's. Every single person who has been on the receiving end of a bully knows how they argue round and round in circles wielding spiteful and nasty remarks until they have sapped their victim of all their strength. Wife beating is one form of it but it get's much worse as the Jews know to their bitter experience. But here is the novel bit...by this experience I know that the cancer cell behaves in exactly the same way as the bully...wildly sending out short sharp shock waves to cause distress, feeding their own wild replication processes in the same way...it seems that Jesus Christ knows all this as well else why is his teaching telling us how to avoid such bullying...both internally and externally??
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On no ippy...I wasn't trained in seeing through the evil art of circular argument not to see it when it is being used against me. It is a significant point to make here because I have a wider interest in this tactic.
We each have a level of emotional/electric/nervous/spiritual strength...but when it is lost we are depressed and our health begins to malfunction and the more it goes on the more serious those health problems become...I witnessed this in an industrial environment and realised in a way that was proven over and over again that this electric force is robbed by bully's. Every single person who has been on the receiving end of a bully knows how they argue round and round in circles wielding spiteful and nasty remarks until they have sapped their victim of all their strength. Wife beating is one form of it but it get's much worse as the Jews know to their bitter experience. But here is the novel bit...by this experience I know that the cancer cell behaves in exactly the same way as the bully...wildly sending out short sharp shock waves to cause distress, feeding their own wild replication processes in the same way...it seems that Jesus Christ knows all this as well else why is his teaching telling us how to avoid such bullying...both internally and externally??
I'm not arguing with you Nick, so there's no circular argument; what is it that makes you so reluctant to give anyone a straight answer to any question you're asked?
You've gone off on a tangent to the question I've asked you, again, what has that lot got to do with you providing verifiable evidence that would support the magical, mysterious and superstition based sections of your bible?
We're not going around in circles by me asking you to answer my question, all you have to do is answer me, it'difficult to understand why the things you think are answers have nothing to do with my question.
Once you give me this verifiable evidence you say you have I will convert to christianity, obviously I'd need to check that your knowledge can be verified before I was to convert.
I look forward to seeing this verifiable evidence of yours Nick.
ippy
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I've got the first part of your message that you don't answer the questions asked of you, you're democratic I'll give you that, democratic in so much as you don't answer anyone properly, you don't reserve your non-answers for me alone.
If you were to think things out carefully, if, as you say, you're trying to pass over some obscure message, it might lend some credibility to your cause if occasionaly your replies, replies a loose term in your case, were at least relevent to the questions asked.
At the moment your answers are so far away and irrelevent, you spoil your own case, so if as it seems and you say you have an agenda, frankly the words you use where it should be you answering someones legitimate question come over as another load of silly meaningless words and again you can't be taken seriously because you've sabotaged your own your own agenda, by not having the decency to give a straight answer.
Take us seriously and you never know Nick, we'll probably start to take you seriously it should work both ways Nick.
ippy
It must be obvious to you by now ippy that I have no andwer suitable for you but I do have an answer for all those who might feel depressed, lonely, offended, bullied, without hope, emotionally distressed, etc ect...It is all down to how we handle our spiritual strength...and often it is at the hands of bullying...bullying isn't always obvious. It can take many forms but the thing to look out for is constant and continual attacks on your nervous strength. It gets worse and worse until they are hitting you square on the nose with no fear of redress because you are totally spent. Now....the point of this is that Jesus Christ taught us to harness that inner strength and I can tell you it works...don't take my word for it...take Jesus'...who also teaches us how to repair from very serious conditions using the same science.
Sorry ippy but my message can't wait for obstructers.
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It must be obvious to you by now ippy that I have no andwer suitable for you but I do have an answer for all those who might feel depressed, lonely, offended, bullied, without hope, emotionally distressed, etc ect...It is all down to how we handle our spiritual strength...and often it is at the hands of bullying...bullying isn't always obvious. It can take many forms but the thing to look out for is constant and continual attacks on your nervous strength. It gets worse and worse until they are hitting you square on the nose with no fear of redress because you are totally spent. Now....the point of this is that Jesus Christ taught us to harness that inner strength and I can tell you it works...don't take my word for it...take Jesus'...who also teaches us how to repair from very serious conditions using the same science.
Sorry ippy but my message can't wait for obstructers.
You don't understand clinical depression, Nicholas.
All anyone who is depressed wants are a few simple, kind words & a bit of quiet, not preaching and teaching.
Give it a rest man.
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Yep. One may add depression to the list of things NM has problems comprehending - a list which includes cancer, illness and disability, and which seemingly increases each day. I agree, Brownie; clinical depression is a medically diagnosed condition with many contributing factors, and needs to be treated medically and with sensitivity. Faith DOES help - I hve experience of those for whom faith was an anchor in a sea of blankness - but this condition is medical.
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It must be obvious to you by now ippy that I have no andwer suitable for you but I do have an answer for all those who might feel depressed, lonely, offended, bullied, without hope, emotionally distressed, etc ect...It is all down to how we handle our spiritual strength...and often it is at the hands of bullying...bullying isn't always obvious. It can take many forms but the thing to look out for is constant and continual attacks on your nervous strength. It gets worse and worse until they are hitting you square on the nose with no fear of redress because you are totally spent. Now....the point of this is that Jesus Christ taught us to harness that inner strength and I can tell you it works...don't take my word for it...take Jesus'...who also teaches us how to repair from very serious conditions using the same science.
Sorry ippy but my message can't wait for obstructers.
dear oh dear, as long as you're happy!
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I get the bit about lonliness - since I accepted Christ as Lord I can truly say I've never felt alone, or abandoned, regardless of the situation. I'd add bullying to the list of Stuff NM struggles with. Believe me, when you're a partially sighted teenager whose schoolbag has been stuffed full of human excrement and thrown down a flight of stairs after you have proceded it in the same manner, you know what bullying is.
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I get the bit about lonliness - since I accepted Christ as Lord I can truly say I've never felt alone, or abandoned, regardless of the situation. I'd add bullying to the list of Stuff NM struggles with. Believe me, when you're a partially sighted teenager whose schoolbag has been stuffed full of human excrement and thrown down a flight of stairs after you have proceded it in the same manner, you know what bullying is.
I would say that NM seems to know an awful lot about bullying and oppression...It may be cus he saw a factory full of women herded like animals and saw the impact on their health that maybe he saw it as wrong and tried to do something about it...and perhaps you are getting the benefit of it here.
Perhaps, even...NM sees the same evil policy being played out world wide and wants you all to know about it before it's too late...but obstructers will block the way if we aren't careful.
The accurate teaching of Jesus Christ is all we need which tells us to upbuild a righteous spirit and by its strength and our correct thinking all the hormones produced by our healthier thought processes will slowly kick back into life...that's what I have gleaned from Jesus' teaching anyway...and much more besides.
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I would say that NM seems to know an awful lot about bullying and oppression...It may be cus he saw a factory full of women herded like animals and saw the impact on their health that maybe he saw it as wrong and tried to do something about it...and perhaps you are getting the benefit of it here.
Perhaps, even...NM sees the same evil policy being played out world wide and wants you all to know about it before it's too late...but obstructers will block the way if we aren't careful.
The accurate teaching of Jesus Christ is all we need which tells us to upbuild a righteous spirit and by its strength and our correct thinking all the hormones produced by our healthier thought processes will slowly kick back into life...that's what I have gleaned from Jesus' teaching anyway...and much more besides.
I would say that N M doesn't know any more about bullying and opression than any of the rest of us here on this forum.
Secularism doesn't seek to obstruct religions other than to put them into their place on a level with all the rest of us, without any of the special privileges they have gained for themselves in the past.
While I'm sure you believe in these supossed acurate teachings of this Jesus of yours, but it is only a belief, that certainly doesn't have a schred of verifiable evidence that would support any single part of its magical, mystical or superstitious content
At least Nick you seem to have given up on your rather silly the bible supplies the evidence for the words in the bible nonsense; that rather minor victory took some conciderable effort to acheive, stil,l I'll settle for that.
Try putting the lectern away for some of the time Nick, lighten up a bit, just because people like me see your religion stuff as absolute nonsense doesn't mean we're all mass murderers.
ippy
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'Lightening up' sounds good to me, ippy!
However we can't blame Nicholas for talking his stuff on a Religion and Ethics forum, there aren't many places where that can be done ;D.
I hope you have a very happy Christmas, Nicholas (everyone else too of course but I gave Nick a bit of a hard time earlier). Hope Santa leaves you something special ;).
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'Lightening up' sounds good to me, ippy!
However we can't blame Nicholas for talking his stuff on a Religion and Ethics forum, there aren't many places where that can be done ;D.
I hope you have a very happy Christmas, Nicholas (everyone else too of course but I gave Nick a bit of a hard time earlier). Hope Santa leaves you something special ;).
Thanks for that Brownie, a happy Newtons day to you.
ippy
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I had to look that up ippy! Didn't know Sir Isaac was (probably) born on 25th.
Hee hee, thought it might have something to do with Newton & Ridleys but my mind often works in peculiar ways.
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I had to look that up ippy! Didn't know Sir Isaac was (probably) born on 25th.
Hee hee, thought it might have something to do with Newton & Ridleys but my mind often works in peculiar ways.
You've got it.
ippy
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NM: I've had dealings with Christian denominations from Orthodox to Pentecostals. I've dialogued with groups such as the JWs, Mormons and Unitarians, who claim to be Christian, but are not, by any definition I recognise, believers. Your take on the Scripture is unique. Throwing stuff like 'electric', 'dynamic', 'scientific' etc, into every sentence - when they are not in any recognised Scripture or translation, makes your argument mot only incomprehensible, but useless as a tool of evangelism. I honestly do not know where your ideas come from - but they do not accord in any way with Scripture or Christian apologetics as we know them. You seem incapable of examining the possibility of the personhood of the Holy Spirit, the divinity of Christ, etc - mainstream Christian doctrines for millennia, every one of them.
Being a Christian is believing Christ is the Son of God and died for your sins and was resurrected from the dead.
There are many aspects of beliefs from certain Christian religions which I personally do not agree with. But clearly we are to examine our own conscience. If you do something you personally believe to be wrong then you sin.
True worshipers worship God in Spirit and Truth. We are not to judge who will and will not be saved. For only God and the Lord Jesus know these things.
If they personally through their faith believe something is wrong and do it, then they sin.
Not because it really is wrong but they deem it to be so and so would be sinning against God.
Two commandments sum them all up. Do we love our neighbour if we judge and condemn them?
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'judge' and 'condemn; are not the same as 'dispute', 'refute', 'reject' or 'oppose'. It is possible to engage in the latter four without employing the first two terms.
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'judge' and 'condemn; are not the same as 'dispute', 'refute', 'reject' or 'oppose'. It is possible to engage in the latter four without employing the first two terms.
I've dialogued with groups such as the JWs, Mormons and Unitarians, who claim to be Christian, but are not, by any definition I recognise, believers
It is what it is. No fork tongues allowed and no twisting of what you clearly said.
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Christ does not make exceptions by what one persons faith allows them to do and what it doesn't allow them to do.
The fact is that not all are who call Jesus Lord will he know. But those who obey his words and who have known he and the Father.
I have had a complete stranger walk up to me and ask if I was a believer as they had felt the God tell them I was. The same as I have been told someone else was a believer and they confirmed it to me.
You see God gives us confirmation in ways that are not of man but in the Spirit world.
You have no right to judge anyone regardless of their religious Christian order.
A man born of Spirit and Truth is not about tenets of a church or faith. It is about the truth of Christ and how we receive those truths. Christ is the Son of God. He died and was raised to life by God the Father that we may in turn have life through him.
Faith, hope and Love. The greatest of these is LOVE.
We must live in truth and accept the truth walking in Gods word and Spirit of Truth.
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Well, at least some of that wasn't from the KJV. I suppose that's progress.
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Well, at least some of that wasn't from the KJV. I suppose that's progress.
The WORD is in some of us.... You see the passages I give you I am given.
I sometimes have to look up the words and the give you the passages for you to follow.
God gives me what I need to say, as I need it.
That is what being a believer is all about. Some I know by passage but God I trust to guide me and he always has.
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The WORD is in some of us.... You see the passages I give you I am given.
I sometimes have to look up the words and the give you the passages for you to follow.
God gives me what I need to say, as I need it.
That is what being a believer is all about. Some I know by passage but God I trust to guide me and he always has.
He's not very strong on the English language then.
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He's not very strong on the English language then.
Definitely dropped off since the 17th century ...
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Definitely dropped off since the 17th century ...
actually they still talk like that in Barnsley ;)
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He's not very strong on the English language then.
He created the English language, it is just men who are not strong on understanding the word of God, especially ATHEIST. :)
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He created the English language, it is just men who are not strong on understanding the word of God, especially ATHEIST. :)
Now where in the Bible does it say god created the English language, I must have missed that bit? ;D
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He created the English language, it is just men who are not strong on understanding the word of God, especially ATHEIST. :)
[/quote
Eh?
English evolved (sorry, YECS) from Anglo-Saxon.
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He created the English language, it is just men who are not strong on understanding the word of God, especially ATHEIST. :)
[/quote
Eh?
English evolved (sorry, YECS) from Anglo-Saxon.
There was me thinking, French, Spanish and English all came down from the Latin?
Well at least I was taught that when learning Latin.I learned French in Junior school then went onto learn Latin and French in high school.
Hence the word Vacca meaning cow in Spanish and French just a letter here and there but pronounced the same. Why do you believe you know better than the text books?
The tower of babel do you think when they were all given their languages it had anything to do with YECS or Anglo-saxon?
Sometimes people think their cleverness somehow outweighs even the Word of GOD.
Who is correct? God or You?
Did Gods give man their tongue and did God not show through the Holy Spirit that it matters not their own language when it comes to Gods Spirit speaking through men?
Acts 2King James Version (KJV)
2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Whilst you do as Paul did and hit out at the truth because it does not serve your manmade teachings how will you stop becoming hard hearted?
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Anglo-Saxon was not derived from Latin. (Niether, for that matter, were ay of the Celtic or Norse languages which eventually melded with it to produce the variants of English and Scots. Try to keep up.
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Anglo-Saxon was not derived from Latin. (Niether, for that matter, were ay of the Celtic or Norse languages which eventually melded with it to produce the variants of English and Scots. Try to keep up.
Sassy claims to have studied French at school. Her typed contributions supposedly in that language suggest otherwise. The impression is of someone who has absolutely no grasp of grammar of English or French, nor even the most basic conception of what verbs or a possessive adjectives are; but who attempts to translate from one language to another by just looking up words in a dictionary, regardless of their linguistic function.
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I did have a chat with a Unitarian on another site yesterday, he claims that God is indivisible because Genesis Chapter 1 refers to "The spirit of God floated over the water".