Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Theism and Atheism => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on December 25, 2016, 02:11:16 PM
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Caring for people is a negative Christmas message according to Farage
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/25/ignore-archbishop-canterburys-negative-christmas-message-nigel/
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Why a thread on this subject. I thought that this attitude of Farage's was taken for granted. ;)
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Farage is such a prize prat, I'm sure he just says things off the top of his head for the sake of saying something.
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Farage is such a prize prat, I'm sure he just says things off the top of his head for the sake of saying something.
If I was being paid to write an article defending Nige I would argue that for Ukip/BNP the Anglican church is part of the establishment that they loathe so much. But as I am not I shall agree with you instead.
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If I was being paid to write an article defending Nige I would argue that for Ukip/BNP the Anglican church is part of the establishment that they loathe so much.
Surely the CofE is the very part of the establishment that they support, in name at least, when they talk about British values and Britain's Christian roots?
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Surely the CofE is the very part of the establishment that they support, in name at least, when they talk about British values and Britain's Christian roots?
There is no "British" church. If you want to see what Ukip/BNP are really like get onto today's Indy & read the responses to Brendan Cox's alternative Christmas Message.
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There is no "British" church. If you want to see what Ukip/BNP are really like get onto today's Indy & read the responses to Brendan Cox's alternative Christmas Message.
I am aware that there is no 'British' church, H, but whenever I've heard Griffin or Farage referring to their opposition to Islam, it has gone hand in hand with their 'support' of the Archbishop of Canterbury and/or the Anglican church in the UK.
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I am aware that there is no 'British' church, H, but whenever I've heard Griffin or Farage referring to their opposition to Islam, it has gone hand in hand with their 'support' of the Archbishop of Canterbury and/or the Anglican church in the UK.
Not this Archbish
http://news.sky.com/story/farage-on-carswell-i-dont-know-why-he-joined-10579532
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Farage talking about Christian values, is post-truth, post-fact, post bloody everything. I suppose he means by Christian values slagging off Muslims and other brown people, and telling refugees to naff off.
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Farage is such a prize prat, I'm sure he just says things off the top of his head for the sake of saying something.
Even if he is everything you say he was still a major mover in getting Europe off of our backs.
ippy
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Surely the CofE is the very part of the establishment that they support, in name at least, when they talk about British values and Britain's Christian roots?
Since when was the CofE established in britain?
It might be in England, but not the more enlightened nations in the 'uk'
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Since when was the CofE established in britain?
It might be in England, but not the more enlightened nations in the 'uk'
That's precisely the point, Jim. Whenever Griffin spoke or Farage speaks about British values, they always seem to refer to the CofE, assuming, I s'pose, that it exists across the board. They should be referring to the Anglican Church in the UK, but are so parochial that they don't realise that they are talking about England only, not the other nations in the UK.
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That's precisely the point, Jim. Whenever Griffin spoke or Farage speaks about British values, they always seem to refer to the CofE, assuming, I s'pose, that it exists across the board. They should be referring to the Anglican Church in the UK, but are so parochial that they don't realise that they are talking about England only, not the other nations in the UK.
Which is precisely why Farage is loathed in Scotland - except for the Orange Order, which see him as a bastion of loyalism.
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Not this Archbish
http://news.sky.com/story/farage-on-carswell-i-dont-know-why-he-joined-10579532
Interesting, when told he is responsible for an undercurrent of racism, Farage doesn't deny it, he criticises the accuser for not being on board with the racism.
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Why Welby was entirely Orthodox - and Christian - in his remarks.....and Farage patently was not. https://coffeewithlouis.wordpress.com/2016/12/27/a-christmas-quarrel-by-nigel-farage/
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Good, Anchorman.
I expect this is old news to everyone else and there may even have been a thread about it, which I missed, but I only heard today what Farage said to Brendan Cox, widower of Jo Cox.
This from Guardian (5 days ago):
(NF saying) ...the widower of the murdered MP Jo Cox was tainted by extremism because he supported the organisation.
I read that he said to Cox, "You'd know more about extremism than I would".
Doesn't that just take the biscuit?
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Good, Anchorman.
I expect this is old news to everyone else and there may even have been a thread about it, which I missed, but I only heard today what Farage said to Brendan Cox, widower of Jo Cox.
This from Guardian (5 days ago):
(NF saying) ...the widower of the murdered MP Jo Cox was tainted by extremism because he supported the organisation.
I read that he said to Cox, "You'd know more about extremism than I would".
Doesn't that just take the biscuit?
Yep.
If the 'british' values Farage claims to worship are based on Christianity - as he claimed they were - he's not great cop at living up to them.
There was no hint of the Christ of the Bible in Farage's words or actions which would lead anyone to think his 'faith' is anything other than a belief in himself.
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Why are people who disagree with someone like Brendan Cox always have to be far right or BNP.
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Why are people who disagree with someone like Brendan Cox always have to be far right or BNP.
Not sure anyone has said that. If you could substantiate the assertion.......
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Not this particular thread, it just appears to be a thing on t'internet, twitter etc.
I have said it before, it is as if being on the right is a crime against humanity now, plus there is a tendency to miss out the right and make everyone far right
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I have said it before, it is as if being on the right is a crime against humanity now
Didn't know that that was news to anyone ;)
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Why are people who disagree with someone like Brendan Cox always have to be far right or BNP.
They don't JP, at least not as far as I can see.
There must be many who don't agree with most or some of what he promotes who are lefties, but have strong feelings or are conflicted about particular issues.
I think the reason why what Farage (is reported to have) said to Cox has been highlighted so negatively is because it was a thoughtless, rather stupid and, above all, insensitive remark to make to a recently bereaved widower.
Regardless of political persuasion, anyone can connect with Brendan Cox on a personal level - not forever but for a while yet.
Several things have happened over the past, fairly recent, years, in the lives of politicians and every time the general feeling is one of great sympathy, politics are set aside. Thinking of two off hand, Gordon Brown's little daughter, Jennifer, was born prematurely and died within a few days; David Cameron's much loved son, Ivan, died. We can go back further and remember Norman Tebbitt's wife who was so disabled after the hotel bombing, and how Mr Tebbitt responded to his family crisis. His right-wingedness was way in the background at that time.
So I have no doubt there are left and middle 'wingers' who disagree with some of what Mr Cox says and he doesn't say that much for goodness sake, but are sensitive to his recent loss and put political opinions on the back burner.
Farage was totally insensitive, if what is reported is true and it seems so.
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Caring for people is a negative Christmas message according to Farage
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/25/ignore-archbishop-canterburys-negative-christmas-message-nigel/
Read the article where does Farage say "caring for people is negative"?
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Farage talking about Christian values, is post-truth, post-fact, post bloody everything. I suppose he means by Christian values slagging off Muslims and other brown people, and telling refugees to naff off.
Wiggs talking about Politics is a list of catchphrases. I think Farage is a pretty weak politician who talks a lot of divisive rhetoric the way to deal with him is not to do the same.
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What's wrong with you lot Farage was being positive, Wilby was being miserable and negative. What is wrong with that?
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Read the article where does Farage say "caring for people is negative"?
did I say he 'said' that. Welby's post asks people to care for others less fortunate, Farage calls it a negative message. If asking people to care for others is a negative message, then it follows that caring for people is a negative act.
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did I say he 'said' that. Welby's post asks people to care for others less fortunate, Farage calls it a negative message. If asking people to care for others is a negative message, then it follows that caring for people is a negative act.
It was the impression I took from your post, when I read the article you linked to it was Welby talking about uncertainty and Farage having a go about that.
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It was the impression I took from your post, when I read the article you linked to it was Welby talking about uncertainty and Farage having a go about that.
Welby is talking about caring for people in uncertainty, Farage thinks tgat's negative. It's factual that there are people homeless etc so Farage thinks asking people to care for them is a negative thing and ergo a negative act.
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Welby is talking about caring for people in uncertainty, Farage thinks tgat's negative. It's factual that there are people homeless etc so Farage thinks asking people to care for them is a negative thing and ergo a negative act.
I'm confused now, you are saying that Farage is saying caring for people is negative?
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I'm confused now, you are saying that Farage is saying caring for people is negative?
He often comes across as a someone who believes that everyone should fend for themselves.
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Welby is talking about caring for people in uncertainty, Farage thinks tgat's negative. It's factual that there are people homeless etc so Farage thinks asking people to care for them is a negative thing and ergo a negative act.
Welby's reference to uncertainty is a jab at Brexit, i.e. his lack of faith and confidence in Britain and his deluded idea that the EU is a good thing. Farage's comments were aimed at that.
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Welby's reference to uncertainty is a jab at Brexit, i.e. his lack of faith and confidence in Britain and his deluded idea that the EU is a good thing. Farage's comments were aimed at that.
Where did Welby mention Brexit in his Christmas message?
The Archbishop did not mention any specific events.
That being so, where did you get the idea that his message was a "jab at Brexit"?
Perhaps Beer'n'fags Nige was just living down to his persona and being a twat again?
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I agree with what you said about Farage, NS, he talks out of the top of his head sometimes, without thinking.
However he does give the impression of being generally uncaring about society, survival of the fittest, etc.
That attitude was a common one towards the end of the 1980s and early to mid 1990s, I encountered it a few times and it saddened me. Is Farage an anachronism perhaps?
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Where did Welby mention Brexit in his Christmas message?
That being so, where did you get the idea that his message was a "jab at Brexit"?
Perhaps Beer'n'fags Nige was just living down to his persona and being a twat again?
What did the rest of the paragraph say in the bit you copied from the telegraph?
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I agree with what you said about Farage, NS, he talks out of the top of his head sometimes, without thinking.
However he does give the impression of being generally uncaring about society, survival of the fittest, etc.
That attitude was a common one towards the end of the 1980s and early to mid 1990s, I encountered it a few times and it saddened me. Is Farage an anachronism perhaps?
He is a nationalist you get that impression from this flavour of politician, Sturgeon, Farage, Trump.
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He is a nationalist you get that impression from this flavour of politician, Sturgeon, Farage, Trump.
Nationalists are usually highly unpleasant people. :o
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Nationalists are usually highly unpleasant people. :o
Far too simplistic Floo.
It depends on the kind of nationalism.
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Nationalists are usually highly unpleasant people. :o
Thanks, floo.
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Far too simplistic Floo.
It depends on the kind of nationalism.
Absolutely.
I have no truck whatsoever with ethnic nationalism.
Civic nationalism's a whole different ball game.
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Absolutely.
I have no truck whatsoever with ethnic nationalism.
Civic nationalism's a whole different ball game.
In your opinion, i view the SNP just as toxic as Trump, just as dishonest, moan a whole lot more. :)
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In your opinion, i view the SNP just as toxic as Trump, just as dishonest, moan a whole lot more. :)
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That would be the party which has English, French, Pakistani, Indian, Chinese and Dutch born elected representatives at local, national, UK and EU level?
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That would be the party which has English, French, Pakistani, Indian, Chinese and Dutch born elected representatives at local, national, UK and EU level?
It would be the party the represents anyone as long as they are from the right nation. Never claimed they were racist.
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In your opinion, i view the SNP just as toxic as Trump, just as dishonest, moan a whole lot more. :)
I don't think they are toxic at all. I disagree with them on Scottish Independence (or I did before the Brexiteers kicked them in the teeth) but I don't think they are anything like as dishonest as Trump.
As somebody who likes breaking political unions up, you must have some sympathy with them.
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It would be the party the represents anyone as long as they are from the right nation. Never claimed they were racist.
And since many regard the 'UK' as a union, rather than a nation, surely you'd be happy to break it up?
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I don't think they are toxic at all. I disagree with them on Scottish Independence (or I did before the Brexiteers kicked them in the teeth) but I don't think they are anything like as dishonest as Trump.
Well everyone has different opinions, they spin as hard as Blair did.
As somebody who likes breaking political unions up, you must have some sympathy with them.
Flawed premise and conclusion, you are somebody who is consistent though well done!
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It would be the party the represents anyone as long as they are from the right nation. Never claimed they were racist.
mmm, you might want to try and rephrase that 'from' implies precisely racism. What about Eilidh Whiteford's Private Members bill, that wasn't limited to Scotland?
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And since many regard the 'UK' as a union, rather than a nation, surely you'd be happy to break it up?
Heck yeah I'd vote for Scotland to leave.
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Well everyone has different opinions, they spin as hard as Blair did.
Indeed and merely sort of repeating your's, I.e. making a different assertion doesn't give any strength to your opinion. And why have you switched from as 'toxic as Trump' to something different?
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Heck yeah I'd vote for Scotland to leave.
Would that be because you would want the best for the country you are from?
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Where did Welby mention Brexit in his Christmas message?
That being so, where did you get the idea that his message was a "jab at Brexit"?
He didn't mention it directly but what else would he mean by in these uncertain times? Nothing else has changed from last year, 2015, except for Brexit and he wasn't harking on like this last year, using phrases like these uncertain times and implying things have got even worse than last year. This is what Farage responded to, and to Welby's lack of faith in the better future that Brexit could give us if it is handled properly.
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Nationalists are usually highly unpleasant people. :o
And bigger the 'nation' the worse they are. Look at the EU!!!
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And bigger the 'nation' the worse they are. Look at the EU!!!
Nah.....the brexiters are about all I can stomach.
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He didn't mention it directly but what else would he mean by in these uncertain times? Nothing else has changed from last year, 2015, except for Brexit and he wasn't harking on like this last year, using phrases like these uncertain times and implying things have got even worse than last year. This is what Farage responded to, and to Welby's lack of faith in the better future that Brexit could give us if it is handled properly.
Brexit is only one thing that has changed since 2015, Jack. For instance, we have a President-Elect in the US who is somewhat unpredictable; we have - at least for the West - a new selection of terrorist formats; we have the inevitable instability that occurs in the lead up to General Elections - to be held in several European nations; we have a seemingly rejuvenated Russia under a leader who seems to feel constanmtly under threat; ... That's just to name a few.
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Indeed and merely sort of repeating your's, I.e. making a different assertion doesn't give any strength to your opinion. And why have you switched from as 'toxic as Trump' to something different?
I still maintain that certainly amongst my friends Sturgeon is seen as toxic as Trump. I know its the fashion on this forum to demonise anyone with a different view but may I remind you that I have voted LibDem, Tory and Labour so I'm hardly a right wing extremist or lefty loon.
I do assert that the SNP spin a lot and have given examples, e.g. being anti-austerity for years yet when given the power to end austerity carry on with austerity. Yes I know they have excuses.
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Would that be because you would want the best for the country you are from?
Well yes given that is where my vote would be counted. I actually think it would be in the interests of Scotland as well. The SNP pander to nationalistic anti-English fervour in Scotland and it prevents the SNP being properly held to account, I think with that issue solved it would result in better government for the people of Scotland. Not that I'm an expert but their record on Education isn't great is it?
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Nah.....the brexiters are about all I can stomach.
You didn't understand my post. You Nats want to join the EU which is one massive nation state in effect with all the bad points and very few of the good ones!
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Brexit is only one thing that has changed since 2015, Jack. For instance, we have a President-Elect in the US who is somewhat unpredictable; we have - at least for the West - a new selection of terrorist formats; we have the inevitable instability that occurs in the lead up to General Elections - to be held in several European nations; we have a seemingly rejuvenated Russia under a leader who seems to feel constanmtly under threat; ... That's just to name a few.
Uncertain, in this context means wholly new and unprecedented. So kind of yes with Trump but then this was kind of true of Bush (a chimp in a human costume), especially with hindsight. Elections? Nah!!!!! We have those all the time. And the EU has always been shit. Putin? Nah!!!!! That is due to the stupidity of the West and more applicably to the US bullish attitude. Anyway, Russia's iffyness has always been there. So what's left? Yes, that's right Brexit, which is a phenomena of the reaction against Neo Liberalism, which is what Farage is against. We are approaching a Post Neo-Liberalism era.
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You didn't understand my post. You Nats want to join the EU which is one massive nation state in effect with all the bad points and very few of the good ones!
Nope.
Scotland did not vote to JOIN the EU.
I'm happy to say we voted - heavily - to REMAIN in the EU.
Hope that helps.
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Scotland did not vote to JOIN the EU.
Out of interest, are there national breakdowns of the vote back in the 70s to join the EEC? If so, which way did the Scots vote?
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Uncertain, in this context means wholly new and unprecedented. So kind of yes with Trump but then this was kind of true of Bush (a chimp in a human costume), especially with hindsight. Elections? Nah!!!!! We have those all the time. And the EU has always been shit. Putin? Nah!!!!! That is due to the stupidity of the West and more applicably to the US bullish attitude. Anyway, Russia's iffyness has always been there. So what's left? Yes, that's right Brexit, which is a phenomena of the reaction against Neo Liberalism, which is what Farage is against. We are approaching a Post Neo-Liberalism era.
If I understand it correctly, we are fast approaching a Free trade free-for-all. That is about as Neo-Liberal as one can get. In fact, its possibly a retrogressive step to an earlier stage of British life.
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Out of interest, are there national breakdowns of the vote back in the 70s to join the EEC? If so, which way did the Scots vote?
See link, also note it wasn't a vote to join but to continue membership
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum,_1975
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You didn't understand my post. You Nats want to join the EU which is one massive nation state in effect with all the bad points and very few of the good ones!
Not English though and for the rabid Scottish nationalists that is all that matters. :)
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And bigger the 'nation' the worse they are. Look at the EU!!!
And England is bigger than Scotland and Wales and NI put together!!!!!!!!!
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Nope.
Scotland did not vote to JOIN the EU.
I'm happy to say we voted - heavily - to REMAIN in the EU.
Hope that helps.
Nope. Scotland didn't vote at all it was the UK that voted - tough shit to your lot.
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If I understand it correctly, we are fast approaching a Free trade free-for-all. That is about as Neo-Liberal as one can get. In fact, its possibly a retrogressive step to an earlier stage of British life.
That depends on who is voted into power isn't it. We have a chance to leave the EU and so from there to get rid of all the Brussels lovers out of Westminster and install people who want to serve the British people.
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That depends on who is voted into power isn't it. We have a chance to leave the EU and so from there to get rid of all the Brussels lovers out of Westminster and install people who want to serve the British people.
And that is precisely what will lead us into a Free Trade free-for-all, JK. As one of the richest nations in the world, we have a moral duty to help the less well off around the globe and I'm afraid that many people are not interested in the less well off, but simply to ensure that the richest get richer still. Ironically, this is one area that we currently do better than the EU as a whole - and the 'put Britain first' attitude of some Brexit leaders is likely to put us many years backwards on the road towards global fairness.
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See link, also note it wasn't a vote to join but to continue membership
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum,_1975
So, the Scots were somewhat lukewarm, eh? ;) ;)
I wonder why they are so keen to remain now? Does it have something to do with the amount of EU that comes into the Scottish economy? ;) ;)
By the way, I've had to make the same point (re. remaining, rather than joining) to so many over the years, that I'm embarrassed to realise that I put the latter in my post. My apologies.
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And that is precisely what will lead us into a Free Trade free-for-all, JK. As one of the richest nations in the world, we have a moral duty to help the less well off around the globe and I'm afraid that many people are not interested in the less well off, but simply to ensure that the richest get richer still.
Really? I've not heard one politician campaign on that basis, the traditional ideological split between centre left / right is over how everyone gets richer and how much of a role governments should play in that. Free trade will help the poorer countries since the EU has barriers for those outside.
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And that is precisely what will lead us into a Free Trade free-for-all, JK. As one of the richest nations in the world, we have a moral duty to help the less well off around the globe and I'm afraid that many people are not interested in the less well off, but simply to ensure that the richest get richer still. Ironically, this is one area that we currently do better than the EU as a whole - and the 'put Britain first' attitude of some Brexit leaders is likely to put us many years backwards on the road towards global fairness.
My post and jab was at the Neo-Liberal elites that are doing exactly what you are crying about. This is particularly true of the EU who with their custom tariffs and the like have kept other nations out of their market, especially ones that needed it like the African states. This has kept them poor; or perhaps poorer, due to the selfish, inward looking, "pulling up the draw bridge" attitude that some accuse us in doing in their 'Little Englander' chant. To call them two faced would be an insult to duplicity. It is the Western establishment that has caused the thing you are opposing.
Then for the African states etc. add to their woes the destructiveness of international aid that wipes out local markets and produce, and is used by the likes of the EU for soft power i.e. to impose their will, political outlook and culture on them. My statement of voting out the EU sycophantic turds in Westminster was to get rid of this class of people who are vindictive to such regions of the globe and get people who want to trade fairly with all the world.