Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sriram on April 13, 2017, 02:41:05 PM
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Hi everyone,
Every once in a while I post some 'street' magic event. Here is one performed on the Ellen TV show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_xhSQGKxO4
You'll like it.
Cheers.
Sriram
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Ah, yes, I saw this, it's a lovely use of technology and legerdemain. Best magician I have seen live is Jerry Sadowitz. And he is scabrously funny
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Here is another of this guy Dynamo walking on the Thames...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GMqigTnKFs
Good one.
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Maybe Jesus did the same thing...do you think?!
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Maybe Jesus did the same thing...do you think?!
No, not really, much as I doubt any miracles of Jesus, i don't think they are there to be conjuring tricks. I am of the opinion that the miracles, apart from the resurrection, get in the way of any message in the Gospels, but they aren't there to show Jesus as a street magician.
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No, not really, much as I doubt any miracles of Jesus, i don't think they are there to be conjuring tricks. I am of the opinion that the miracles, apart from the resurrection, get in the way of any message in the Gospels, but they aren't there to show Jesus as a street magician.
Why? Both are walking on water. Why is one just a 'trick' and another a 'miracle'?
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Magic is not always about sleight of hand, trap doors, hidden compartments, smoke and mirrors or something up the sleeve. I have seen some amazing street magic in India.
Today's trend to show magic right in the middle of a crown, on a personal one to one basis and without elaborate costumes, is great and shows us that there are many things that we don't understand. Maybe even the magicians themselves don't fully understand what they are doing......
We may choose to dismiss these events as 'tricks', illusions or a con. But fact is that they clearly defy our understanding of normal life and normal laws of nature.
Yeah...I've heard of James Randi and his 1 million prize....but regardless of that, magic goes on merrily, growing every day!
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Magic is not always about sleight of hand, trap doors, hidden compartments, smoke and mirrors or something up the sleeve. I have seen some amazing street magic in India.
Today's trend to show magic right in the middle of a crown, on a personal one to one basis and without elaborate costumes, is great and shows us that there are many things that we don't understand. Maybe even the magicians themselves don't fully understand what they are doing......
We may choose to dismiss these events as 'tricks', illusions or a con. But fact is that they clearly defy our understanding of normal life and normal laws of nature.
Seriously? People who say that they are doing tricks aren't doing tricks but are using 'real magic'.
Wow.
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Maybe Jesus did the same thing...do you think?!
I suspect Jesus was a good magician and could pull the wool over the eyes of the credulous.
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Seriously? People who say that they are doing tricks aren't doing tricks but are using 'real magic'.
Wow.
One mans 'trick' is another mans 'miracle'. A 'trick' need not mean what we think it does.
Do you think the guy walked on the Thames using a glass platform built surreptitiously by him.... or maybe he was held up by strings attached to a crane.... or maybe a helicopter was hovering above holding him up..... or maybe it was all just a hoax and all the people in the video are paid actors.....or maybe it was digitally made up...... ::)
Similarly with the Ellen video....
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One mans 'trick' is another mans 'miracle'. A 'trick' need not mean what we think it does.
Do you think the guy walked on the Thames using a glass platform built surreptitiously by him.... or maybe he was held up by strings attached to a crane.... or maybe a helicopter was hovering above holding him up..... or maybe it was all just a hoax and all the people in the video are paid actors.....or maybe it was digitally made up...... ::)
Similarly with the Ellen video....
These people are professional conjurers and aren't claiming to be anything else. The whole point is that it looks impossible.
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Here's a light hearted version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVugsBipaMA
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Here's a light hearted version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVugsBipaMA
;D
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These people are professional conjurers and aren't claiming to be anything else. The whole point is that it looks impossible.
That is the problem. Once we believe something very strongly that itself sets the boundaries to our knowledge. Just as some religious people believe that the moon landing is a hoax.
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That is the problem. Once we believe something very strongly that itself sets the boundaries to our knowledge. Just as some religious people believe that the moon landing is a hoax.
What problem?
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What problem?
That you see gullible people everywhere! ;)
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That you see gullible people everywhere! ;)
I think you are certainly gullible yes.
You clearly are due to your unevidenced beliefs.
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I think you are certainly gullible yes.
You clearly are due to your unevidenced beliefs.
Now you should understand what I said in Msg.13!!!
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Now you should understand what I said in Msg.13!!!
Do you have faith?
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Dear Sriram,
Why? Both are walking on water. Why is one just a 'trick' and another a 'miracle'?
No! What Sane is saying ( message 5 ) it detracts from the true message of the Gospels, Sane is not a Christian ( but believe me when I tell you he has a Christian heart ) but he is saying do not fixate on the miracles, this is missed when reading the Gospels.
Here is a miracle you might have missed in the Gospels, my Lord bent before his Disciples and washed all their feet, and today millions of Christians perform that very same miracle.
Gonnagle.
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Dear Sriram,
No! What Sane is saying ( message 5 ) it detracts from the true message of the Gospels, Sane is not a Christian ( but believe me when I tell you he has a Christian heart ) but he is saying do not fixate on the miracles, this is missed when reading the Gospels.
Here is a miracle you might have missed in the Gospels, my Lord bent before his Disciples and washed all their feet, and today millions of Christians perform that very same miracle.
Gonnagle.
I agree with you Gonnagle. 'Miracles' are not important and that is why you won't find much emphasis on miracles in Hinduism...though Krishna is believed to have performed many. It is character and humility that is important.
My point was that Magic is a very real thing and not just some 'trick' as people like to think. Maybe it is some sort of an illusion or by-passing of natural laws that we don't understand. But the tendency of some people to dismiss it as 'just a trick'...is what I was questioning.
Maybe Jesus and Krishna and others, performed the same magic that this guy Dynamo is doing. That was my point.
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My point was that Magic is a very real thing and not just some 'trick' as people like to think. Maybe it is some sort of an illusion or by-passing of natural laws that we don't understand. But the tendency of some people to dismiss it as 'just a trick'...is what I was questioning.
This is beyond gullibility. Why are you so desperate to believe that this is 'real magic' that you accuse those who perform it of dishonesty?
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This is beyond gullibility. Why are you so desperate to believe that this is 'real magic' that you accuse those who perform it of dishonesty?
????????
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????????
The performers don't claim to be doing 'real magic' - they say it's tricks - so why are you claiming they are being dishonest about it?
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The performers don't claim to be doing 'real magic' - they say it's tricks - so why are you claiming they are being dishonest about it?
I have already addressed that. What 'trick' do you think Dynamo did while walking on the Thames? You would have no clue, I am sure.
My point is that something that is a 'trick' for Dynamo (or Jesus or Krishna) will not be a trick for you and me. It is something extraordinary.
But some of you will be unwilling to accept that there can be anything extraordinary or beyond natural laws that you cannot even understand. That is the problem. You will continue to think in terms of trap doors, mirrors, glass platforms and so on....because that is all you know of.
What the real 'trick' is...you will not be able to understand.
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I have already addressed that. What 'trick' do you think Dynamo did while walking on the Thames? You would have no clue, I am sure.
Somebody says they are doing tricks, they do some tricks you can't explain and so you think it's real magic. As I said, beyond gullibility.
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I have already addressed that. What 'trick' do you think Dynamo did while walking on the Thames? You would have no clue, I am sure.
My point is that something that is a 'trick' for Dynamo (or Jesus or Krishna) will not be a trick for you and me. It is something extraordinary.
But some of you will be unwilling to accept that there can be anything extraordinary or beyond natural laws that you cannot even understand. That is the problem. You will continue to think in terms of trap doors, mirrors, glass platforms and so on....because that is all you know of.
What the real 'trick' is...you will not be able to understand.
Stage magic is a trick: for each trick there is an explanation but the audience don't know what it is - but they do know they are watching a trick. The likes of Penn & Teller come to mind, as do Paul Daniels and David Nixon (from my childhood) among others.
I was at a wedding recently and they hired a magician to mingle with the guests and do tricks to keep people entertained post-wedding and pre-meal. He sat at our table, and I watched him closely to try and spot the 'trick': I didn't, but was mesmerised by his skill and no doubt the props he used are part of this, such as when he produced a small plastic flower from my daughter-in-law's ear (which did surprise her).
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Some might be interested in this site where magician's deceptions are revealed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT4YFHB-mvc
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Somebody says they are doing tricks, they do some tricks you can't explain and so you think it's real magic. As I said, beyond gullibility.
I am not talking about children's party magic here.
I have provided two examples above. If you can explain them...fine. Or if the word 'trick' 'explains everything' and makes you feel comfortable and secure...fine with me.
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I see Sriram, the blue elephant man was someone dressed up like some of the performers at a Disney land pleasure parks, I suppose some of the children would have thought that Micky Mouse was a real figure too, had he been around at that time?
ippy
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I see Sriram, the blue elephant man was someone dressed up like some of the performers at a Disney land pleasure parks, I suppose some of the children would have thought that Micky Mouse was a real figure too, had he been around at that time?
ippy
You are back to your trolling, I see. Habits die hard! :D Have fun!
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Dear Ekim,
The Masked Magician >:( taking the magic out of magic, shame, we all need a little magic in our life's.
But I much prefer this guy ( I found him after watching Siriams original link )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peL1orGWPn8
This guy loves his magic but also puts the science into it.
Gonnagle.
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I am not talking about children's party magic here.
I have provided two examples above. If you can explain them...fine. Or if the word 'trick' 'explains everything' and makes you feel comfortable and secure...fine with me.
The whole point, Sriram, is that while you can't explain them you know that there is an explanation: the trick involves the skill and deception needed to carry out what is explainable but in a manner that disguises what the explanation is. That magic is primarily a source of entertainment for a paying audience and income for the performer/promoter tends to suggest there is nothing unnatural about it.
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Dear Ekim,
The Masked Magician >:( taking the magic out of magic, shame, we all need a little magic in our life's.
But I much prefer this guy ( I found him after watching Siriams original link )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peL1orGWPn8
This guy loves his magic but also puts the science into it.
Gonnagle.
I think your link is more about pyrotechnics used for special effects in movies than about magic. And ekim's link is about old style stage magic...and even that rather naive IMO.
If anyone can find an explanation for the above two videos I have given...please feel free.
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The whole point, Sriram, is that while you can't explain them you know that there is an explanation: the trick involves the skill and deception needed to carry out what is explainable but in a manner that disguises what the explanation is. That magic is primarily a source of entertainment for a paying audience and income for the performer/promoter tends to suggest there is nothing unnatural about it.
No...I don't think so. Its just a mindset. 'It can't be done....it can't be done....there must be some explanation....it's just a trick' etc.etc.
Party magic is different. I have bought my son a magic set many years ago. That's not what I am talking about. I am talking about walking on the Thames and pulling out printed selfies from an ipad.
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No...I don't think so. Its just a mindset. 'It can't be done....it can't be done....there must be some explanation....it's just a trick' etc.etc.
Party magic is different. I have bought my son a magic set many years ago. That's not what I am talking about. I am talking about walking on the Thames and pulling out printed selfies from an ipad.
That you can't figure it out doesn't mean it isn't a trick: the likes of Dynamo and Derren Brown are highly skilled at what they do.
Which is more likely: that the normal order of things can be suspended in selected cases only, and primarily for the purposes of entertainment, or that people who are self-identified tricksters are performing honest trickery for reward?
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Magic is not always about sleight of hand, trap doors, hidden compartments, smoke and mirrors or something up the sleeve. I have seen some amazing street magic in India.
Today's trend to show magic right in the middle of a crown, on a personal one to one basis and without elaborate costumes, is great and shows us that there are many things that we don't understand. Maybe even the magicians themselves don't fully understand what they are doing......
We may choose to dismiss these events as 'tricks', illusions or a con. But fact is that they clearly defy our understanding of normal life and normal laws of nature.
Yeah...I've heard of James Randi and his 1 million prize....but regardless of that, magic goes on merrily, growing every day!
Perfect example of the argument from personal incredulity. Just because you can't figure out how street magicians do their tricks does not mean they aren't just tricks.
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Dear Siriam,
I think your link is more about pyrotechnics used for special effects in movies than about magic. And ekim's link is about old style stage magic...and even that rather naive IMO.
Pyrotechnics!! Magic old son but if you delve a little deeper you will find the mans history is steeped in good old fashioned stage magic, his mother and father have turned their basement into a museum of magic they also invented Hollywood fake blood used in so many hammer horror films.
Gonnagle.
PS: I honestly don't know what point you are trying to make in this thread although I have always enjoyed a bit of finger flinging or prestidigitation especially the history, Houdini being a favourite. ;)
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As an aside. I used to religiously Watch Penn and Teller on the TV in the 90's in a programme called "The Unpleasant World of Penn & Teller."
I used to have this on VHS, sadly long gone now but is relevant to the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3FHytuCdHg
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Harry Houdini's disappearing elephant trick was never explained until a few years after he had died, when his team chose to show the world how the trick was performed. Everyone knew it was a trick, but no one could say how it was done until the mechanics of it were revealed. Does this mean that up to that moment people should have believed that it was actual magic they were watching rather than a trick, simply because no one was able to explain it?
When my grand daughter was about 8, I used to perform all manner of magic tricks to her. She was mightily impressed. When I told her that they were all tricks, she flatly refused to believe me, because she much preferred the 'magic' element to be true. She only started to realise they were tricks when I showed her how they were done.
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I am not talking about children's party magic here.
I have provided two examples above. If you can explain them...fine. Or if the word 'trick' 'explains everything' and makes you feel comfortable and secure...fine with me.
It makes me uncomfortable that people can perform tricks, pass them off as real magic, and gain a kind of religious koudos off it while taking money off those they have duped.
In a way Sriram, my perception is that your culture leaves you vulnerable to this sort of thing. There are plenty of Gurus running around claiming all sorts.
It's called being gullible, that because you can't see how it's done, you believe you can't be fooled, hence you believe it.
I've known a few people in RL who believe some Indian " guru" really leaves a trail of ash wherever he goes and i've also met a few people who also thought Paul Daniels was a " real" white magician. Paul Daniels doesn't claim to use real magic, just tricks but they ignore that.
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You are back to your trolling, I see. Habits die hard! :D Have fun!
Not really Sriram, if the cap fits wear it, would be a fair comment that relates to the overall sentiments you have been conveying on this thread of yours.
Comments don't necessarily need to be a dozen paragraphs long to be valid, as in my last post to you.
Like most of the ideas conveyed by religions they have some good ideas and some really bad ones that border on the idiotic; a considerable number on the idiotic as you must appreciate, even if you may prefer to not admit.
I live a reasonably good ethical life, like anyone else nowhere perfect, all without believing in unsupportable knowledge such as many of the things claimed by your religion or anyone else's.
I would like to remind you that it's the religions that I've no time for, I'm not your enemy and you would be made most welcome here in my company any time.
ippy
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Dear Ippy,
Like most of the ideas conveyed by religions they have some good ideas and some really bad ones that border on the idiotic; a considerable number on the idiotic as you must appreciate, even if you may prefer to not admit.
Pejorative, is that the right word. ???
Gonnagle.
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The secret of walking on water, explained.
https://youtu.be/dycpIPTFJ04
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Hi everyone,
I don't know what 'real magic' is and what 'artificial magic' is. Yes...there is party magic with things stuffed up the sleeve, hidden compartments etc.
But there is also magic which cannot be explained by us or even by scientists. As you may know, I don't believe in the 'supernatural'. Everything is natural, even particles influencing one another instantaneously across the universe. Now that is natural but it is also extraordinary and that's magic!
Reincarnation is magic! NDE's are magic! Spontaneous healing is magic! Premonitions are magic! There is plenty of magic if you want to see it. Our unconscious mind works lots of magic!
I prefer to acknowledge things that I don't understand.....and I don't need the reassurance that there is nothing extraordinary in the world. I don't have all the answers but I am happy with that.
I started this thread only to give people a little wonder....like when you watch something out of the ordinary. Its not for entertainment. Not for the claps. Not for the laughs. Not for the explanations of 'its only this...its only that'. Not to be brushed aside immediately to get back to our comfort zone. None of that.
Its for the question mark that it leaves us with.
Cheers.
Sriram
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iPad magic
http://www.simonpierro.com/iphone-magic-simon
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As it's Easter.
Here's some magic, the chocolatey sort ;)
http://thekidshouldseethis.com/post/animated-chocolate-cake-zoetropes-by-alexandre-dubosc
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Dear Rose,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPDo_xNcVus
Real or fake?
Maybe Our Lord was just a really fit guy.
Or, OR! Maybe Our Lord actually walked on the Dead sea.
http://twistedsifter.com/2012/06/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-dead-sea/
Gonnagle.
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Rose #43
Nice one!!
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But there is also magic which cannot be explained by us or even by scientists.
Such as?
As you may know, I don't believe in the 'supernatural'. Everything is natural, even particles influencing one another instantaneously across the universe. Now that is natural but it is also extraordinary and that's magic!
I think there's enough extraordinary stuff in the World without having to pretend there is magic too.
Reincarnation is magic!
Reincarnation is make believe.
NDE's are magic! Spontaneous healing is magic! Premonitions are magic!
All of these have prosaic explanations (the we may or may not know yet) except premonitions which are usually called "guessing".
I prefer to acknowledge things that I don't understand
I freely acknowledge there are many things in the World that I do not understand but I am not so arrogant as to believe anything I can't understand must be magic.
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Believing in magic is gullibility.
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Dear Berational,
Is believing in miracles a type of gullibility.
I see gullible people, everywhere!
I see miracles everywhere.
Gonnagle.
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Dear Berational,
Is believing in miracles a type of gullibility.
I see miracles everywhere.
Gonnagle.
You must be very gullible.
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Dear Berational,
AYE!! Me and wee Albert.
Albert Einstein. There are only two ways to live your life: as though nothing is a miracle, or as though everything is a miracle.
Gonnagle.
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You do know that Einstein was not a theist?
You seem to quote him as if he supports your position.
He does not and would not have approved.
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Dear Berational,
You do know he was not an atheist, what I do know, he was a genius, a very deep thinking man, on all sorts of topics, and if he was alive, I think he would just laugh at my hero worship of him.
Gonnagle.
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He did not believe in a personal god and thought it was childish.
If you think so much of his opinion, why don't you?
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Dear Berational,
Do you have a hero, do you agree with everything they say, but what does a personal God mean?
Gonnagle.
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Dear Berational,
Do you have a hero, do you agree with everything they say, but what does a personal God mean?
Gonnagle.
I do not keep quoting people either. A point stands on its own merit no matter who makes it.
Einstein was a genius but he knew no more about gods than I do.
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Dear Berational,
Einstein was a genius but he knew no more about gods than I do.
Agreed, but he never dismissed the idea of God.
Gonnagle.
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Dear Berational,
Agreed, but he never dismissed the idea of God.
Gonnagle.
He did your God which he called man made and childish.
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Dear Berational,
Did he? Maybe you can explain to me what my God is, I for the life of me don't know what my God is, at present.
Gonnagle.
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Dear Berational,
Did he? Maybe you can explain to me what my God is, I for the life of me don't know what my God is, at present.
Gonnagle.
How can you believe something when you do not know what is?
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Dear Berational,
How can you disbelieve something when you don't know what it is.
Gonnagle.
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I think your link is more about pyrotechnics used for special effects in movies than about magic. And ekim's link is about old style stage magic...and even that rather naive IMO.
If anyone can find an explanation for the above two videos I have given...please feel free.
Dynamo is walking on a platform which is just far enough under the water to not be seen easily and also to allow shallow bottom boats such as the two canoes to pass over it. This adds to the illusion. The police boat that 'rescues' him would not be able to pass over it though!
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Maybe you can explain to me what my God is, I for the life of me don't know what my God is, at present.
That doesn't make any sense. How do you know to call it 'god' if you don't know what it is? How does the phrase "I believe in god" mean anything at all?
"I believe in vanfugzod."
"What is vanfugzod?"
"No idea."
See? It doesn't make sense...
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Dear Stranger,
No, what you have just posted makes no sense, but I become a bit weary of repeating myself on this forum, being constantly asked to explain, you know what!! I sometimes have the feeling that no one really reads my posts but that can't be, I am just being silly, my post are always wind swept and interesting.
Tell you what old son!! Take a couple of hours out, check out my profile and go to my posts, I don't know how far they go back but it might give you a sense of where I am coming from, on the other hand, you might come to the concussion that that Gonnagle type person is a right weirdo ;)
Gonnagle.
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Dear Berational,
How can you disbelieve something when you don't know what it is.
Gonnagle.
Gonners how many times do you need to be told that people that don't believe in gods don't disbelieve in them; how do you disbelieve in something that's not there in the first place to disbelieve in and there is no supportable evidence for the existence of gods other than inside the imaginations of, sadly, a lot of people.
ippy
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Dear ippy, Darling ippy,
Lots.
Gonnagle.
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Gonners how many times do you need to be told that people that don't believe in gods don't disbelieve in them; how do you disbelieve in something that's not there in the first place to disbelieve in and there is no supportable evidence for the existence of gods other than inside the imaginations of, sadly, a lot of people.
ippy
What?
Lots of people disbelieve in Santa and he isn't there.
If someone tells you how they think God is in their religion and that you should believe it too, and you don't believe it, you disbelieve.
Of course they disbelieve, they disbelieve in a scenario put forward by someone else.
Your logic is faulty, ippy.
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Dear Rose,
Careful, be very careful, they will drop down from the rafters and start pursuing young ladies in skimpy negligees who leave their veranda windows open ::) ::) oops sorry that's Vampires, my mistake. :P
Gonnagle.
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Dear Rose,
Careful, be very careful, they will drop down from the rafters and start pursuing young ladies in skimpy negligees who leave their veranda windows open ::) ::) oops sorry that's Vampires, my mistake. :P
Gonnagle.
No danger to me then Gonnagle 🤣
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Dear Berational,
How can you disbelieve something when you don't know what it is.
Gonnagle.
Simple!
That is the DEFAULT position.
I disbelieve everything until I see evidence to believe it.
This is where we differ. My position is rational, yours is not.
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What?
Lots of people disbelieve in Santa and he isn't there.
If someone tells you how they think God is in their religion and that you should believe it too, and you don't believe it, you disbelieve.
Of course they disbelieve, they disbelieve in a scenario put forward by someone else.
Your logic is faulty, ippy.
O K Rose, where are these gods I'm supposed to disbelieve in?
Where is there any viable evidence that would support the god or gods idea?
Gonners lots of people used to think the sun revolved around the earth, it doesn't matter how many believe something like that and they're wrong, double or triple the numbers and they're still wrong; but there if there's something you're determind to not understand I suppose you wont.
ippy
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O K Rose, where are these gods I'm supposed to disbelieve in?
Where is there any viable evidence that would support the god or gods idea?
Gonners lots of people used to think the sun revolved around the earth, it doesn't matter how many believe something like that and they're wrong, double or triple the numbers and they're still wrong; but there if there's something you're determind to not understand I suppose you wont.
ippy
Ippy, you miss the point.
Someone puts up a Gods scenario, and you disbelieve it.
It doesn't matter if it's Jesus, Thor or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
People disbelieve in them, because they don't accept other people's beliefs about them.
Disbelieve
be unable to believe.
"he seemed to disbelieve her"
synonyms: not believe, not credit, give no credence to, discredit, discount, doubt, distrust, mistrust, be suspicious of, have no confidence/faith in, be incredulous of, be unconvinced about; not accept, reject, repudiate, question, challenge, contradict; informaltake with a pinch of salt
"he totally disbelieved her"
incredulous, unbelieving, doubtful, dubious, unconvinced;
distrustful, mistrustful, suspicious, lacking trust, cynical, sceptical
"he gave a disbelieving laugh"
Lots of people are unconvinced that gods of any sort exist, they disbelieve.
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Ippy, you miss the point.
Someone puts up a Gods scenario, and you disbelieve it.
It doesn't matter if it's Jesus, Thor or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
People disbelieve in them, because they don't accept other people's beliefs about them.
Disbelieve4
be unable to believe.
"he seemed to disbelieve her"
synonyms: not believe, not credit, give no credence to, discredit, discount, doubt, distrust, mistrust, be suspicious of, have no confidence/faith in, be incredulous of, be unconvinced about; not accept, reject, repudiate, question, challenge, contradict; informaltake with a pinch of salt
"he totally disbelieved her"
incredulous, unbelieving, doubtful, dubious, unconvinced;
distrustful, mistrustful, suspicious, lacking trust, cynical, sceptical
"he gave a disbelieving laugh"
Lots of people are unconvinced that gods of any sort exist, they disbelieve.
Rose, have a think, take your time, how does anyone disbelieve in something that's not there?
I don't mind the misnoma of atheist being used to describe my line of thought but I'm no more an atheist than I'm a non-stamp collector, I'm a non-religious person.
Until someone comes up with some kind of cast iron proof that there are gods in existance, I remain a non-religious person because there is no plausable reason for me to think that there is any such thing as a god in the first place.
I don't disbelieve in the wizard type persons of the Harry Potter kind because there's no reason to think there are real wizards and that would apply to any work of fiction, wizards, gods, unicorns, I don't disbelieve in any of those either.
Does that help, Rose?
ippy
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Dynamo is walking on a platform which is just far enough under the water to not be seen easily and also to allow shallow bottom boats such as the two canoes to pass over it. This adds to the illusion. The police boat that 'rescues' him would not be able to pass over it though!
That is rubbish! That is not a swimming pool, that is the Thames he is walking on. And the water is not even ankle deep for him...and he walks almost half way into the river. And how do you think he could have constructed a platform in the Thames without any of the authorities knowing?!!
The point is...its ok if we don't know. We don't HAVE to keep coming up with inane explanations.
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That is rubbish! That is not a swimming pool, that is the Thames he is walking on. And the water is not even ankle deep for him...and he walks almost half way into the river. And how do you think he could have constructed a platform in the Thames without any of the authorities knowing?!!
The point is...its ok if we don't know. We don't HAVE to keep coming up with inane explanations.
It's a trick, Sriram - if you knew how it was done it wouldn't be a trick. David Copperfield once made the Statue of Liberty disappear but do you believe it did?
These guys refer to themselves as illusionists for a reason.
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Dear Berational,
AYE!! Me and wee Albert.
Albert Einstein.
There are only two ways to live your life: as though nothing is a miracle, or as though everything is a miracle.
Gonnagle.
But everyone always ignores the extended part of this quote: "Although if you believe in miracles then you must be gullible".
;)
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That is rubbish! That is not a swimming pool, that is the Thames he is walking on. And the water is not even ankle deep for him...and he walks almost half way into the river. And how do you think he could have constructed a platform in the Thames without any of the authorities knowing?!!
Would you kindly watch this view of the 'magic' and let me know where my statements are incorrect?
https://youtu.be/2Yx2hU9uv40
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Dear Berational,
You do know he was not an atheist, what I do know, he was a genius, a very deep thinking man, on all sorts of topics, and if he was alive, I think he would just laugh at my hero worship of him.
Gonnagle.
Hmmm, Einstein used many labels to describe his religious views, including "agnostic", "religious nonbeliever" and a believer in "Spinoza's God".
Although he also expressed his conception of God as "pantheistic".
He also said that he had gradually lost his faith early in childhood:
. . . I came—though the child of entirely irreligious parents—to a deep religiousness, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of twelve. Through the reading of popular scientific books, I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression. Mistrust of every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a sceptical attitude toward the convictions that were alive in any specific social environment—an attitude that has never again left me, even though, later on, it has been tempered by a better insight into the causal connections.
It is quite clear to me that the religious paradise of youth, which was thus lost, was a first attempt to free myself from the chains of the 'merely personal,' from an existence dominated by wishes, hopes, and primitive feelings. Out yonder, there was this huge world, which exists independently of us human beings and which stands before us like a great, eternal riddle, at least partially accessible to our inspection and thinking. The contemplation of this world beckoned as a liberation, and I soon noticed that many a man whom I had learned to esteem and to admire had found inner freedom and security in its pursuit. The mental grasp of this extra-personal world within the frame of our capabilities presented itself to my mind, half consciously, half unconsciously, as a supreme goal. Similarly, motivated men of the present and of the past, as well as the insights they had achieved, were the friends who could not be lost. The road to this paradise was not as comfortable and alluring as the road to the religious paradise, but it has shown itself reliable, and I have never regretted having chosen it.
https://ia802307.us.archive.org/18/items/EinsteinAutobiography/EinsteinAutobiography.pdf
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Rose, have a think, take your time, how does anyone disbelieve in something that's not there?
I don't mind the misnoma of atheist being used to describe my line of thought but I'm no more an atheist than I'm a non-stamp collector, I'm a non-religious person.
Until someone comes up with some kind of cast iron proof that there are gods in existance, I remain a non-religious person because there is no plausable reason for me to think that there is any such thing as a god in the first place.
I don't disbelieve in the wizard type persons of the Harry Potter kind because there's no reason to think there are real wizards and that would apply to any work of fiction, wizards, gods, unicorns, I don't disbelieve in any of those either.
Does that help, Rose?
ippy
No.
If someone says something exists, and you don't believe it does, then you disbelieve in it.
Lots of people have looked at the evidence and disbelieve in the Loch Ness monster. They disbelieve in it.
Just because it's the word God, doesn't make any difference.
Lots of people have looked at for example, Catholics say and believe and decided they don't believe it, therefore they disbelieve.
Why are you so frightened of admitting you disbelieve in what religions claim?
Many people disbelieve in religion, but admit they don't actually know if something intelligent started the universe, but you can still look at the evidence that we know so far, and conclude you don't believe something did. That's disbelieving.
How can you only disbelieve in things that exist? :o
It makes no sense.
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That is rubbish! That is not a swimming pool, that is the Thames he is walking on. And the water is not even ankle deep for him...and he walks almost half way into the river. And how do you think he could have constructed a platform in the Thames without any of the authorities knowing?!!
The point is...its ok if we don't know. We don't HAVE to keep coming up with inane explanations.
It's only a temporary platform, the authorities wouldn't be interested.
Provided he removed it afterwards.
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That is rubbish! That is not a swimming pool, that is the Thames he is walking on. And the water is not even ankle deep for him...and he walks almost half way into the river. And how do you think he could have constructed a platform in the Thames without any of the authorities knowing?!!
The point is...its ok if we don't know. We don't HAVE to keep coming up with inane explanations.
What makes you think the authorities didn't know? This type of trick has been explained and demonstrated as using a platform just below the water level. But you won't accept that because you want to believe in magic.
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Maybe even the magicians themselves don't fully understand what they are doing......
I think they really do!
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Would you kindly watch this view of the 'magic' and let me know where my statements are incorrect?
https://youtu.be/2Yx2hU9uv40
Hmmm....well...I agree that they seem to hit something at just one spot. But they actually went over the places he had walked without hitting anything. They have not clarified that it is a glass platform.
Also, given the depth of the Thames, constructing a glass platform of that length (right into the middle of the river) is a major construction job. And what about all the barges and yacht going around?! I am not convinced that the authorities are going to allow any such nonsense that could be dangerous to other vessels.
Look...I am not saying its something supernatural. I don't believe in supernatural things. But I do believe that everything need not be explained through commonsense, mundane means.
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It's a trick, Sriram - if you knew how it was done it wouldn't be a trick. David Copperfield once made the Statue of Liberty disappear but do you believe it did?
These guys refer to themselves as illusionists for a reason.
Ok..illusion ...fine. Now..what exactly is an illusion? If a man can make hundreds of people standing on the spot suddenly stop seeing the Statue of Liberty or a train or a plane or the Taj Mahal...what does it say about our minds and that persons control over it?! Is it normal mundane... oh hum... stuff?!
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Hmmm....well...I agree that they seem to hit something at just one spot.
If you look carefully at the water after the hit occurs, you can see the platform's outline.
But they actually went over the places he had walked without hitting anything.
Did they? Really.
He gets on the boat, it backs up a bit, then goes away from where he was walking.
They have not clarified that it is a glass platform.
The voice on the video is saying
'It's the glass beneath'.
Why would he say that?
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Also, given the depth of the Thames, constructing a glass platform of that length (right into the middle of the river) is a major construction job.
The bridge has seven spans. The platform goes diagonally, no further than the first span.
Hardly half way across!
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Hmmm....well...I agree that they seem to hit something at just one spot. But they actually went over the places he had walked without hitting anything. They have not clarified that it is a glass platform.
Given the colour of the Thames, it doesn't really have to be glass.
Also, given the depth of the Thames, constructing a glass platform of that length (right into the middle of the river) is a major construction job.
I don't know why you keep saying "right in the middle", he never got more than a few metres from the bank. And the Thames is tidal. Where he was walking would be dry land at low tide, so they could have constructed the platform without even getting their feet wet.
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Oh, and in the video they have a boat positioned under the first span to stop anybody from using it and inadvertently hitting the platform.
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No.
If someone says something exists, and you don't believe it does, then you disbelieve in it.
Lots of people have looked at the evidence and disbelieve in the Loch Ness monster. They disbelieve in it.
Just because it's the word God, doesn't make any difference.
Lots of people have looked at for example, Catholics say and believe and decided they don't believe it, therefore they disbelieve.
Why are you so frightened of admitting you disbelieve in what religions claim?
Many people disbelieve in religion, but admit they don't actually know if something intelligent started the universe, but you can still look at the evidence that we know so far, and conclude you don't believe something did. That's disbelieving.
How can you only disbelieve in things that exist? :o
It makes no sense.
You really don't get it Rose, not to worry.
ippy
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Given the colour of the Thames, it doesn't really have to be glass.
I don't know why you keep saying "right in the middle", he never got more than a few metres from the bank. And the Thames is tidal. Where he was walking would be dry land at low tide, so they could have constructed the platform without even getting their feet wet.
Yes...I generally agree with you. But constructing a glass platform in full public view is too obvious and elaborate a hoax for a magician. Looks silly! Half of central London would have known about it.
Jesus didn't have glass platforms btw!
If some magicians can create illusions of disappearing trains and planes and levitation and so on, I think they can walk on water too. I actually don't see a problem.
The point is, how is the illusion created what does that tell us about the mind?
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The point is, how is the illusion created what does that tell us about the mind?
That the mind is general pretty easy to trick and prefers a fantastic story to a mundane reality.
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If some magicians can create illusions of disappearing trains and planes and levitation and so on,
The clue is in the word 'illusion' ;
an instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience
Once you understand that then you will realise that the 'events' in question did not actually happen as portrayed!
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The point is, how is the illusion created what does that tell us about the mind?
It tells us that there are gullible people, everywhere.
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One interesting idea is that he could have used features under the Thames, like an old Roman road which can be just under the water at low tide.
Someone has put up articles in the comments.
https://100gf.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/how-did-dynamo-walk-across-the-river-thames-magician-performs-stunt-for-tv-show/
http://www.visitmyharbour.com/harbours/thames-estuary/thames-estuary/expanded.asp
I favour the plexiform platform as a means, but making use of low tide and natural featured would be interesting
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Sriram
Dynamo has also revealed how he does some of his illusions
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/tech/news/500006/Dynamo-secrets-revealed-Samsung-Galaxy-S7
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Sriram
Dynamo has also revealed how he does some of his illusions
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/tech/news/500006/Dynamo-secrets-revealed-Samsung-Galaxy-S7
MEh - just a fluff of promo for Samsung.