Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rhiannon on April 17, 2017, 02:48:54 PM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/16/prince-harry-sought-counselling-death-mother-led-two-years-total/
Good podcast with Bryony Gordon. Think there is some valuable stuff in there.
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That is really good Rhiannon, I feel strongly we do need to hear more about how it is not wrong 'feeling weird' etc!
I'd read before about Prince Harry's problems, he's been remarkably open bless his heart, his brother too. It helps to hear stories from high profile people.
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Yes, it's so refreshing and touching to hear him opening up. I know Rio Ferdinand has been involved in the Heads Together project, and his recent programme about bereavement was intensely moving. It definitely helps that high profile people are talking about their stuff now, and not just women, but men too. It does make me hopeful that my kids' generation won't have to deal with the fear and stigma that ours have.
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Agreed. Also found Rio Ferdinand's programme moving.
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The situation probably arose because of the typical Windsor survial srategy. They seem to exhibit a remarkable ability to attempt to dehumanise threir offspring, with disasterous results. If this young man ends up with a ruined life, then the fault can be laid squarely at 'the firm'.
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The situation probably arose because of the typical Windsor survial srategy. They seem to exhibit a remarkable ability to attempt to dehumanise threir offspring, with disasterous results. If this young man ends up with a ruined life, then the fault can be laid squarely at 'the firm'.
No I don't think that is fair. It's true that his family were very ill equipped to deal with the grief of Harry and William following Diana's death, but equally I think the media must take some blame, not least in baying for the public grieving on the part of the Royal Family that I think led to the ill-judged decision to allow those two boys to walk behind their mother's coffin, and the subsequent hounding of him throughout his life as a young man and adult. But as Rio Ferdinand's programme shows, being a working class bloke doesn't suddenly make someone emotionally literate and able to share.
Dehumanising and abusing offspring doesn't begin and end with royalty and if Harry speaking out now makes it easier for others who have had upsetting, difficult and abusive childhoods then I fail to see what the problem is. Don't let your prejudice against who he is get in the way of the value of his message.
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Just seen Rhiannon's excellent post & agree. Been trying to a reply to Anchorman but got some forbidden error message. No need now anyway.
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With all the conspiracy theories flying around I'm not surprised he suppressed it all, to protect himself probably, initially.
It would be traumatic for any child to hear stories about his father and grandfather having his mother killed and about her affairs.
It was all so public and some of it tactless.
He's a human being, one that gets his family publically dissected, in a way that was likely to disturb a child, and children react differently to bereavement.
Also people who don't like the royalty and have an agenda, don't cut them any slack.
He was a child, subjected to the sort of abuse on the death of his mother, most of us would be horrified at, had he been anyone else.
The abuse came from a lot of the tactless coverage bounded about, not from his family. It doesn't surprise me he suppressed his feelings and that had a bad effect on him later.
How must it have looked to a little boy who's mother was pursued by the press to her death, and who then was the focal point of conspiracy theories by the media? What could a little boy do with those feelings of anger when he heard all that stuff? About his family, about his dad and grandad.
He's was still just a kid.
Of course it caused him a problem.
It doesn't matter if he is royalty, he's a human being and was at the time a little boy who loved his mum.
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Seemed enormously honest, while I have no belief in the monarchy, the people themselves are therefore no different, no better, no worse than the any of us. He has my sympathy and respect for this.
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The situation probably arose because of the typical Windsor survial srategy. They seem to exhibit a remarkable ability to attempt to dehumanise threir offspring, with disasterous results. If this young man ends up with a ruined life, then the fault can be laid squarely at 'the firm'.
Not at all.
Much can be laid at the feet of the media and the gossip.
He must have heard it, the things said against his family.
No other child would have been expected to cope.
In schools counselling is often arranged for traumatic events.
He was a child like any other child.
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Seemed enormously honest, while I have no belief in the monarchy, the people themselves are therefore no different, no better, no worse than the any of us. He has my sympathy and respect for this.
Yes, I have no strong feelings for the monarchy either way but I think he did well.
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He has done well & is shaping up fine.
I'm glad he is sharing now and his brother has shared too, it helps others.
Many people sprang from a stiff upper lip background &whilst it doesn't do to 'let it all hang out' at all times, things do need to be talked about.
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While Iadmire Harry Windsor's candour, I maintain that the circumstances which caused it were initiated by the claustrophobic ingrained ethos of the Windsor survival mode. Diana was the brood mare for the continuation of the bloodstock, pure and simple. Yes, she was flawed - so was her husband, when it comes to that. As long as two children existed, the situation was stable - that one of those children might have been suffering, sensitive and failing to deal with the horrors of bereavement should have been picked up by 'the firm'. Instead, like his dad, he was sent to various schools to be educated. Like his dad, he had little choice in the matter. At least, unlike his dad, he enjoyed his careeer in the forces.
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Harry went to Eton, like his brother, which was what his mother wanted as it's just outside London. Both boys could go home either to London or down to Highgrove easily at weekends and see other family and friends. They lost their mother tragically but were much loved.
To be bereaved by a parent dying when you're not quite 13 would be hard for anyone. Families generally aren't the best at helping though they tried. Thank goodness the two brothers had eachother for support. They're grown up now and doing well, able to help others who've suffered bereavements.
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Yes, all in all they seem to be doing ok given both what they have gone through and the insane pressure that comes with being who they are. Many people are ill equipped to deal with the grief of others, especially children.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39622611
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Harry went to Eton, like his brother, which was what his mother wanted as it's just outside London. Both boys could go home either to London or down to Highgrove easily at weekends and see other family and friends. They lost their mother tragically but were much loved.
To be bereaved by a parent dying when you're not quite 13 would be hard for anyone. Families generally aren't the best at helping though they tried. Thank goodness the two brothers had eachother for support. They're grown up now and doing well, able to help others who've suffered bereavements.
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I know what it's like to lose a parent as a child, since my dad died when I was four.
At least I did not have to live in the situation in which Harry Windsor found himself: raised by a parent who himself was mentally damaged by his own very peculiar upbringing, and in the knowledge of both his mother and father's extra-marital affairs.
If he were cushioned from the latter as a child, growing up in the upper class ghetto of Eton would have opened his eyes.
His mental torture was largely the fault of the vwery unique circumstances of the burden of his granny's role - another reason for ditching this ghastly system that continually damages the lives it produces.
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I know what it's like to lose a parent as a child, since my dad died when I was four.
At least I did not have to live in the situation in which Harry Windsor found himself: raised by a parent who himself was mentally damaged by his own very peculiar upbringing, and in the knowledge of both his mother and father's extra-marital affairs.
If he were cushioned from the latter as a child, growing up in the upper class ghetto of Eton would have opened his eyes.
His mental torture was largely the fault of the vwery unique circumstances of the burden of his granny's role - another reason for ditching this ghastly system that continually damages the lives it produces.
LONG LIVE THE MONARCHY.
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So you want to perpetuate a system which continually produces damaged, unhappy lives?
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So you want to perpetuate a system which continually produces damaged, unhappy lives?
That is so untrue.
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Princes William and Henry, just two people as an example out of a huge family, are not permanently damaged! They are fine young men and many of us feel quite proud of them. The monarchy has learned by past mistakes and changed enormously even in my lifetime. The Queen never puts a foot wrong, has always put duty and country first and is a devoted grandmother. Her own parents set an excellent example to everyone.
For goodness sakes Anchorman, your prejudice is really showing! Prejudice is a form of fear - and hatred. Very unChristian. You don't have to like or approve of the monarchy,lots don't, but stop showing such horrible hatred. It's unbecoming of you.
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Maybe Anchorman would prefer us to have a President like Trump! :o
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So you want to perpetuate a system which continually produces damaged, unhappy lives?
It's a comparatively small number. How about ending the school factory system, that damages lives? Divorce, ending that? Marriage itself, that can be damaging. Where do you draw the line? Should everyone have compulsory counselling?
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Maybe Anchorman would prefer us to have a President like Trump! :o
We have a president like Trump. It is called May and it's just thrown its teddy out of the pram.
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We have a president like Trump. It is called May and it's just thrown its teddy out of the pram.
She isn't anything like Trump.
Trump is crass, Theresa May is more ' straight laced.'
Trump makes wild statements about ' dealing with people/ countries.
Trump is worse, far worse!
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We have a president like Trump. It is called May and it's just thrown its teddy out of the pram.
Oh for heaven's sake, there is a world of difference between that idiot Trump and May, she is sane, he is a lunatic!
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the upper class ghetto of Eton
I didn't know you went to Eton.
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So you want to perpetuate a system which continually produces damaged, unhappy lives?
I've met quite a lot of people who have had dragged unhappy lives. None of them were in the Royal Family. Some of them came from council estates (let's get rid of that system) or middle class families (that system has to go) or highly religious backgrounds (definitely get rid of that system).
You seem to have so much hate and anger, why not let it go, I think you'll be happier.
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We have a president like Trump. It is called May and it's just thrown its teddy out of the pram.
No, May calling an election feels calculated, not temperamental.
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[quote anchorman 09.20]
....growing up in the upper class ghetto of Eton....[/quote]
I didn't know you went to Eton.
;D jeremy
Anchor I only just noticed that bit of your post. You really do have it bad, you sound chippy. Do you know Eton, exactly where it is or anyone who went there? If you did you wouldn't say that. Plenty of middle class go there & they give good scholarships.
No, May calling an election feels calculated, not temperamental.
It does indeed, because of jeremy corbyn's unpopularity she's confident of getting back in.
There's such a thing as overconfidence though, no-one can ever be that sure of the outcome of an election.
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Sorry, I do not agree with the English or Scottish private education system, or the flawed individuals it produces - Bullingdon club, anyone? (And a pig's......ear)
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Well Anchor, I am all for good state schools, i went to a grammar school (privately educated before that), husband and offspring were also educated at state grammar schools but that is in a way beside the point because private schools - or public schools as we call them -do exist whether we approve of the system or not. While they exist we must give them some credit for good education nor blame parents for sending their children to them. There's no point being bitter and angry about it.
Public schools vary tremendously & Eton is better than many, not only for education but for pastoral care. That is why it was chosen for the two royal princes whose mother was insistent on them going there, plus its proximity to London. You can't tar all the schools, or ex-pupils, with same brush.
What we can do is campaign strongly for better state schools. There are some very good ones but people deserve more. I've always understood that Scotland has higher educational standards than England.
We've gone off the point of what Prince Harry said in his podcast, which has nowt to do with what school he went to. His words have struck a chord with people across the board.
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Sorry, I do not agree with the English or Scottish private education system, or the flawed individuals it produces - Bullingdon club, anyone? (And a pig's......ear)
Whereas the state system produced the football hooligans of the 70's and 80's. We can all commit the fallacy of overgeneralisation.
Honestly, you do really need to get rid of that chip on your shoulder. Too many of your posts are poisoned by it.
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Jeremy, I agree, but a lot more of his posts are kind, witty and erudite. We've both had a go at him about his chip (more of a plank) & i think he will have got the message by now :).
Hooligans come from all educational backgrounds. For some it is a rite of passage! I had a brief foray into minor hooliganism aged 14 which was very educational - for my parents & teachers.
Prince Harry has grown into a kindly, thoughtful man who seems genuinely to want to help people, I believe he would be the same regardless of schooling but his high profile means more will hear him. Since Rhiannon posted this thread I've heard about it endlessly on radio, on TV and it pops up on the internet! It's been well received so I think we can fairly say, good for him.
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Jeremy, I agree, but a lot more of his posts are kind, witty and erudite.
Yes, I know. That makes it all the more annoying when his posts exhibit his chippiness.
Hooligans come from all educational backgrounds.
Indeed they do. That was my point.
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More work being done by Royals on mental health. Somewhat more impressive than Jeremy Hunt who thinks we all know what depression is like because we have all been a bit down!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39664608
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More work being done by Royals on mental health. Somewhat more impressive than Jeremy Hunt who thinks we all know what depression is like because we have all been a bit down!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39664608
They strike me as good and sincere people.
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More work being done by Royals on mental health. Somewhat more impressive than Jeremy Hunt who thinks we all know what depression is like because we have all been a bit down!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39664608
Surely some understanding and empathy is better than none
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Surely some understanding and empathy is better than none
thinking that we all know what depression is like because we have all been a bit down is showing precisely no understanding nor empathy.
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thinking that we all know what depression is like because we have all been a bit down is showing precisely no understanding nor empathy.
Actually it is damaging, because it is this kind of ignorance that leads people to think that those with clinical depression can 'pull themselves out of it'.