Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Humph Warden Bennett on May 16, 2017, 09:59:01 AM

Title: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on May 16, 2017, 09:59:01 AM
Just a thought. When I consider those whom I feel have wronged me, and those whom I feel have wronged other people, compared to what Brady & his girlfriend did, most of my minor gripes seem very very small indeed.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: BeRational on May 16, 2017, 10:00:24 AM
Should have hanged years ago.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Gordon on May 16, 2017, 10:59:39 AM
I am not in favour of the death penalty, but where the evil Brady and Hindley were concerned I might have made the exception. >:(

Then you are in favour of the death penalty.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 16, 2017, 11:25:50 AM
Then you are in favour of the death penalty.

No not really. I do think the likes of Brady should be made to serve out their life sentences in the toughest of environments with no creature comforts at all.

Now that evil piece of scum is dead I think his body should be chopped up into little pieces and scattered in a remote place for rodents etc to eat!
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Anchorman on May 16, 2017, 11:43:35 AM
Should have hanged years ago.

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Sorry, BR.
I think witholding his requests to be transferred to a mainstream prison, and his demand to be allowed to die, were more fitting punishments for this individual.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on May 16, 2017, 11:46:32 AM
Now that evil piece of scum is dead I think his body should be chopped up into little pieces and scattered in a remote place for rodents etc to eat!

As to Brady finally being of some use to the planet, then I do have some sympathy with your post.

However, what differentiates H Sapiens from the rest of the animal kingdom is our differentiation between right, and wrong. Brady shouild be buried quickly, without fuss, and my sympathies with whoever has to speak at his funeral.


Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 16, 2017, 11:49:21 AM
Now that evil piece of scum is dead I think his body should be chopped up into little pieces and scattered in a remote place for rodents etc to eat!

As to Brady finally being of some use to the planet, then I do have some sympathy with your post.

However, what differentiates H Sapiens from the rest of the animal kingdom is our differentiation between right, and wrong. Brady shouild be buried quickly, without fuss, and my sympathies with whoever has to speak at his funeral.

Brady shouldn't have funeral just the disposal of his corpse.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: BeRational on May 16, 2017, 11:52:39 AM
Now that evil piece of scum is dead I think his body should be chopped up into little pieces and scattered in a remote place for rodents etc to eat!

As to Brady finally being of some use to the planet, then I do have some sympathy with your post.

However, what differentiates H Sapiens from the rest of the animal kingdom is our differentiation between right, and wrong. Brady shouild be buried quickly, without fuss, and my sympathies with whoever has to speak at his funeral.

I guess it depends what they say.

If they describe him accurately it should cause them no problem.

Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Harrowby Hall on May 16, 2017, 11:55:26 AM


However, what differentiates H Sapiens from the rest of the animal kingdom is our differentiation between right, and wrong. Brady shouild be buried quickly, without fuss, and my sympathies with whoever has to speak at his funeral.

But if he is buried without fuss there will be no funeral and no-one will be speaking.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 16, 2017, 11:55:39 AM
I guess it depends what they say.

If they describe him accurately it should cause them no problem.

His corpse shouldn't be permitted to pollute any church, or crem chapel!
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Aruntraveller on May 16, 2017, 12:00:11 PM
His corpse shouldn't be permitted to pollute any church, or crem chapel!

Why. It is only a corpse. The corpse isn't guilty of anything. Whoever or whatever the force/personality was that committed those horrific acts is gone. The corpse is just that - a corpse.

Leave it be. Brady is gone.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Anchorman on May 16, 2017, 12:05:27 PM
His corpse shouldn't be permitted to pollute any church, or crem chapel!


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Isn't that the decision of whatever denomination - if he had one?
There may also be surviving family who will be consulted before any funeral is carried out.
Gor my own part, funerals are there for the family, not the body in the vox, and no words said over said box will change anything - but there may well be some famikly members who mourn him - and their needs, not those of Brady - should be taken into consideration.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 16, 2017, 12:12:12 PM
My thoughts are with the families of his victims. This must be a frighteningly traumatic time for them.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Robbie on May 16, 2017, 12:40:46 PM
No not really. I do think the likes of Brady should be made to serve out their life sentences in the toughest of environments with no creature comforts at all.

Now that evil piece of scum is dead I think his body should be chopped up into little pieces and scattered in a remote place for rodents etc to eat!

He wanted to die for a long time (as Trent voyager said above). He had little quality of life, his punishment must have been worse than a quick death.

Like you i don't support the death penalty but had it been the wayof dealing with murderers at the time of his conviction, I wouldn't have lost sleep over Brady. Still I think life imprisonment can be a living death.

As for funeral, i thought funeral was just burying or cremating the body. Anything else is frills. He'll be disposed of quietly no doubt, no undertaker is going to want to advertise the fact that they're dealing with his remains - but they are just remains, not him.

My sympathies are with those relatives of his victims who are still alive.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Harrowby Hall on May 16, 2017, 01:11:33 PM

As for funeral, i thought funeral was just burying or cremating the body. Anything else is frills.

Well, you thought wrong.

Burying, burning etc is disposal. Frills is funeral.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Harrowby Hall on May 16, 2017, 01:15:18 PM
My thoughts are with the families of his victims. This must be a frighteningly traumatic time for them.

Well, it will certainly revive memories of the children they lost, but I would have thought that Brady's demise would bring relief rather than be "frighteningly traumatic".
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 16, 2017, 01:47:50 PM
Why. It is only a corpse. The corpse isn't guilty of anything. Whoever or whatever the force/personality was that committed those horrific acts is gone. The corpse is just that - a corpse.

Leave it be. Brady is gone.

It what that corpse represents that is contaminated.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Aruntraveller on May 16, 2017, 02:28:38 PM
It what that corpse represents that is contaminated.

As I say. Leave it be. Brady's gone.

Unfortunately I'm sure the press will do it's usual salacious job of highlighting the funeral which will then cause the possible grief we all,I hope would be spared, for the families. Let his cremation, burial, funeral, whatever is chosen, happen and don't cover it in the press. Don't mention it.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 16, 2017, 02:58:33 PM
As I say. Leave it be. Brady's gone.

Unfortunately I'm sure the press will do it's usual salacious job of highlighting the funeral which will then cause the possible grief we all,I hope would be spared, for the families. Let his cremation, burial, funeral, whatever is chosen, happen and don't cover it in the press. Don't mention it.

He doesn't deserve a funeral! Hopefully his corpse will be disposed of quietly without anyone being any the wiser!
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Anchorman on May 16, 2017, 03:08:53 PM
He doesn't deserve a funeral! Hopefully his corpse will be disposed of quietly without anyone being any the wiser!


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Again, in disposing of his remains, the feelings of any surviving members of Brady's family will be taken into consideration.
I can't imagine anyone will mourn his passing, but, routinely, the prison authorities will consult the next of kin if there is one.
There have been cases when crematoria or churches have been opened late at night to accomodate such services or commemorations at the wish of the next of kin. In such cases, the funeral is usually strictly private and by invitation only.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 16, 2017, 03:19:33 PM

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Again, in disposing of his remains, the feelings of any surviving members of Brady's family will be taken into consideration.
I can't imagine anyone will mourn his passing, but, routinely, the prison authorities will consult the next of kin if there is one.
There have been cases when crematoria or churches have been opened late at night to accomodate such services or commemorations at the wish of the next of kin. In such cases, the funeral is usually strictly private and by invitation only.

It is the relatives of his victims whose feelings that should be taken into consideration, not that of his family. Although if they have any decency they wouldn't want that piece of scum having any sort of ceremonial send off.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Robbie on May 16, 2017, 03:45:05 PM
Ian Brady didn't appear to have any relatives:

http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/crime-files/ian-brady

I'd never before read much about him, the above makes chilling reading.

He will be disposed of, probably cremated, quietly and discreetly. We'll know nothing about it until afterwards.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 16, 2017, 03:51:46 PM
Ian Brady didn't appear to have any relatives:

http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/crime-files/ian-brady

I'd never before read much about him, the above makes chilling reading.

He will be disposed of, probably cremated, quietly and discreetly. We'll know nothing about it until afterwards.

Chilling reading is an understatement!

Whilst I certainly don't buy the concept of original sin, I certainly think people can be born with the propensity to be a psychopath or sociopath like Brady.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: wigginhall on May 16, 2017, 05:17:18 PM
I find his mental illness interesting, assuming he was a psychopath.   Does this mean he was responsible for what he did?  I don't know, but certainly when he wanted to go back to prison, he wasn't allowed.   I think he also got medication.

But he was considered sane enough to stand trial, but I suppose he was quite intelligent.   

It's similar to Peter Sutcliffe, I suppose.  I can also understand why people say, sod psychiatry, hang the bastards, although the law presumably would not allow that, if they are judged insane.   

Actually, I just noticed that Sutcliffe was moved back to prison, so presumably was judged sane enough.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: ippy on May 16, 2017, 05:22:13 PM
Should have hanged years ago.

Like you B R I'm with the majority, I totally agree with you.

ippy
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 16, 2017, 05:39:21 PM
I find his mental illness interesting, assuming he was a psychopath.   Does this mean he was responsible for what he did?  I don't know, but certainly when he wanted to go back to prison, he wasn't allowed.   I think he also got medication.

But he was considered sane enough to stand trial, but I suppose he was quite intelligent.   

It's similar to Peter Sutcliffe, I suppose.  I can also understand why people say, sod psychiatry, hang the bastards, although the law presumably would not allow that, if they are judged insane.   

Actually, I just noticed that Sutcliffe was moved back to prison, so presumably was judged sane enough.

I am no psychiatrist of course, but I suspect psychopathic behaviour is rather different to other mental health conditions and they can control their behaviour if they so wish.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 16, 2017, 05:46:52 PM
I am no psychiatrist of course, but I suspect psychopathic behaviour is rather different to other mental health conditions and they can control their behaviour if they so wish.
That post should just end after 4 words
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: wigginhall on May 16, 2017, 05:59:32 PM
I am no psychiatrist of course, but I suspect psychopathic behaviour is rather different to other mental health conditions and they can control their behaviour if they so wish.

I have no idea, and I trained as a psychotherapist.  They certainly often lack empathy, and hence remorse.   But maybe empathy is part of morality, in any case.    If they see you as a machine or a piece of meat, their choices will be very different.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Robbie on May 16, 2017, 06:40:16 PM
Flooit doesn't matter that you aren't a psychiatrist, you can still read & learn.

it is possible for psychopaths to control behaviour and we must remember that most manage to stay within the law all their lives and don't commit crimes of violence which does not mean they don't create havoc in other ways because they are plausible and manipulative. There are other crimes which aren't violent such as serious fraud at which psychopaths excel.

Also there are people who have some psychopathic tendencies but would not be classified as psychopath.

There's no doubt a psychopath knows what is right or wrong from what he or she has learned by being in the world, just doesn't 'feel' it in the same way as others. There's no guilt.

From what I have now read, Brady ticks all the boxes but there are some who don't tick all of them as far as anyone can tell, but most of them.

There are differences in brain function on MRI scan in lower frontal lobe/orbital cortex (it's a while since I studied psychology but i remember this) between a psychopath and non-psychopath but it's possible the differences could be caused by other factors.

All in all a complex business.



Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: wigginhall on May 16, 2017, 07:02:07 PM
Very complex.  You can't say that Brady is a psychopath, therefore X and Y.   Individuals are a mixture of different elements, which vary a lot.   I was just interested in the interaction between sanity and responsibility.   There are people who can't even be questioned, as they are not cognitively able.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Robbie on May 16, 2017, 07:07:58 PM
You're right there.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Ricky Spanish on May 17, 2017, 07:28:18 AM
Didn't even know he was still alive.  So his death means fuck all to me...
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 17, 2017, 08:28:03 AM
Would anyone really be insensitive enough to scatter Brady's ashes on Saddleworth Moor? The coroner won't release his corpse for cremation unless he gets that assurance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39940080
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Robbie on May 17, 2017, 08:56:47 AM
No floo I am pretty sure that was never even considered but such suggestions make news.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 17, 2017, 08:58:54 AM
No floo I am pretty sure that was never even considered but such suggestions make news.

Apparently Brady wanted his ashes to be scattered on the moor!
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Rhiannon on May 17, 2017, 09:00:29 AM
'Apparently'.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Harrowby Hall on May 17, 2017, 10:10:31 AM
Why don't they just put his ashes in the dustbin and let them go to landfill like the other rubbish?
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Rhiannon on May 17, 2017, 10:25:38 AM
I really fail to see what difference it makes as to what is done with his body, although I can understand the coroner's views. We have some very odd ideas about death and memorial.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 17, 2017, 10:47:57 AM
I really fail to see what difference it makes as to what is done with his body, although I can understand the coroner's views. We have some very odd ideas about death and memorial.

What sort of odd ideas?  The idea of any sort of  ceremony, including a funeral, for this evil piece of the proverbial is an anathema to many people. HH has the right idea, just put his ashes in the dustbin where they belong.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Aruntraveller on May 17, 2017, 10:54:40 AM
What sort of odd ideas?  The idea of any sort of  ceremony, including a funeral, for this evil piece of the proverbial is an anathema to many people. HH has the right idea, just put his ashes in the dustbin where they belong.

I do understand your feelings Floo - but when I see your posts on this subject I can't help feeling that you are not exactly lowering yourself to his standards, but allowing your feelings to be coarsened by his actions.

It doesn't feel healthy to me.

Much better just to let it lie - pay it no heed. (Although as I said before I'm sure the press will do their best to rub salt in the wounds of the families affected)
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 17, 2017, 11:07:50 AM
I do understand your feelings Floo - but when I see your posts on this subject I can't help feeling that you are not exactly lowering yourself to his standards, but allowing your feelings to be coarsened by his actions.

It doesn't feel healthy to me.

Much better just to let it lie - pay it no heed. (Although as I said before I'm sure the press will do their best to rub salt in the wounds of the families affected)

How am I lowering myself to Brady's standards, I haven't killed anyone?
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Rhiannon on May 17, 2017, 11:12:22 AM
I do understand your feelings Floo - but when I see your posts on this subject I can't help feeling that you are not exactly lowering yourself to his standards, but allowing your feelings to be coarsened by his actions.

It doesn't feel healthy to me.

Much better just to let it lie - pay it no heed. (Although as I said before I'm sure the press will do their best to rub salt in the wounds of the families affected)

Yes, this is what I feel. There are procedures on place that will be adhered to.

It's worth bearing in mind that Brady loved attention and no doubt he anticipated it would come after his death. There are other nutcase out there who will find his notoriety attractive. The only people hurt by the attention now will be the families of the bereaved.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Aruntraveller on May 17, 2017, 11:14:00 AM
How am I lowering myself to Brady's standards, I haven't killed anyone?

As I didn't say that I can't answer your question.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 17, 2017, 11:15:36 AM
Whatever.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Aruntraveller on May 17, 2017, 11:18:50 AM
Whatever.

Yeah. Right. Don't engage with the point made, put up a straw man instead.

I was very careful with my wording - I said you were
Quote
allowing your feelings to be coarsened by his actions.



Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Robbie on May 17, 2017, 11:24:09 AM
I do understand your feelings Floo - but when I see your posts on this subject I can't help feeling that you are not exactly lowering yourself to his standards, but allowing your feelings to be coarsened by his actions.

It doesn't feel healthy to me.

Much better just to let it lie - pay it no heed. (Although as I said before I'm sure the press will do their best to rub salt in the wounds of the families affected)

I agree with you and Rhiannon Trentboyaer.
He's not worth getting worked up about it all now he's gone & the possibility of his ashes being scattered on Saddleworth is remote.They'll just be dumped somewhere and no-one will know anything about it. End of.

& floo Trent didn't suggest you'd killed anyone, he said:- " --I can't help feeling that you are not exactly lowering yourself to his standards, but allowing your feelings to be coarsened by his actions.

That can happen so easily.
When we look back in history (& i know you wouldn't do any of this) people used to clamour to attend public hangings in this country and even now you get crowds of people outside courts wanting to shout and bang on the van that holds a dangerous prisoner. It isn't healthy.

PS I see Trent has posted.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 17, 2017, 11:34:41 AM
Surely anyone in their right mind would feel revolted by the actions of Brady and say so.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Aruntraveller on May 17, 2017, 11:39:02 AM
Surely anyone in their right mind would feel revolted by the actions of Brady and say so.

Yes and no.

People express themselves differently and at different times.

What I am saying though is the almost prurient display of interest by you and the press, for example, does not give any help to the families involved. The expressions of faux outrage make you feel better. Nobody else.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on May 17, 2017, 11:41:54 AM
Yes and no.

People express themselves differently and at different times.

What I am saying though is the almost prurient display of interest by you and the press, for example, does not give any help to the families involved. The expressions of faux outrage make you feel better. Nobody else.

I wouldn't call my interest prurient. I didn't even start this thread.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Aruntraveller on May 17, 2017, 11:43:24 AM
I wouldn't call my interest prurient. I didn't even start this thread.

That's why I said 'almost prurient'

Ok you didn't start this thread, this is relevant how?
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Shaker on November 03, 2017, 12:53:48 PM
I see Brady's ashes have been scattered at sea, causing even more pollution. :o
The sea has far greater environmental problems than about 4lbs of ash, I think.
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Sebastian Toe on November 03, 2017, 02:00:38 PM
I see Brady's ashes have been scattered at sea, causing even more pollution. :o
Have you ever thought of how many tons of bird poop enters the oceans on a daily basis?
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: floo on November 03, 2017, 02:08:44 PM
Have you ever thought of how many tons of bird poop enters the oceans on a daily basis?

I was being cryptic! Brady's ashes should have been chucked into the sewer as befitted that evil piece of the proverbial..
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Sebastian Toe on November 03, 2017, 02:15:38 PM
I was being cryptic! Brady's ashes should have been chucked into the sewer as befitted that evil piece of the proverbial..
The output from a sewer ends up where?
Title: Re: Ian Brady is dead
Post by: Robbie on November 03, 2017, 02:19:54 PM
Hee hee, in't sea of course along with all the shit.
Really it doesn't matter where his remains were dumped does it?  He's long gone.