Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: floo on June 22, 2017, 12:02:39 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40368573
If this breaking news story is true it shows up the CofE in a very poor light! :o
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I suspect it has something to do with this
http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2008/12/04/can-a-priest-ever-reveal-what-is-said-in-confession/
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I suspect it has something to do with this
http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2008/12/04/can-a-priest-ever-reveal-what-is-said-in-confession/
there must be a large part of my brain missing preventing me from understanding religious practice
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I don't think it's about confession. For example, church leaders received letters alleging abuse about Ball, and did not pass them on to the police. They also actively campaigned for him, stating that he was innocent. And he was not placed on a register of dodgy clerics. In other words, church leaders knew he was a serial abuser, but covered up for him, and allowed him to carry on working.
I think one of his victims committed suicide, I wonder how much help he had received?
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I suspect it has something to do with this
http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2008/12/04/can-a-priest-ever-reveal-what-is-said-in-confession/
It is NOTHING to do with confession!
This is the C of E and the boys he abused were sent to him for spiritual guidance - what they got was 'bend over and drop your Daks!'
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Ok.
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It's also about various cover-ups. Ball was protected by various church leaders, obtained a clean Criminal Records Bureau sheet, was not placed on a dodgy clerical list, and hence kept on working. His victims were disbelieved, dismissed and called 'mischief-makers'. You wonder how far the cover-up went.
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How many other denominations are covering up sexual abuse perpetrated by their clergy?
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How many other denominations are covering up sexual abuse perpetrated by their clergy?
If it's covered up ...
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It's also about various cover-ups. Ball was protected by various church leaders, obtained a clean Criminal Records Bureau sheet, was not placed on a dodgy clerical list, and hence kept on working. His victims were disbelieved, dismissed and called 'mischief-makers'. You wonder how far the cover-up went.
It went all the way up to Lord Carey who was, at the time, Archbishop of Canterbury.
From the quoted piece on the OP
Quote - Ball was given funds authorised by Lord Carey to support him.
Lord Carey also wrote to Ball's identical twin brother, Michael Ball - another bishop - in 1993 saying: "I believed him to be basically innocent" - Unquote
For various assualts on 18 men and boys - WHICH HE ADMITTED - he got just 32 months!
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Maybe wigginhall thinks that wasn't the limit of how high the cover up went?
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Maybe wigginhall thinks that wasn't the limit of how high the cover up went?
Yeah - why not, after all the Queen is the Head of the Chuirch in Enghland, let's blame her . . . she MUST have known all about it!
Her great-great- whatrever founded the C of E so she is homour bound to protect its reputation isn't she!
SORTED!
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Yeah - why not, after all the Queen is the Head of the Chuirch in Enghland, let's blame her . . . she MUST have known all about it!
Her great-great- whatrever founded the C of E so she is homour bound to protect its reputation isn't she!
SORTED!
Why all the straw? That wigginhall wonders that it might extend higher is surely the exact same speculation that people apply to the RCC. No one did she must have known.
Oh and I also had in mind the PM as possibly being aware of the decision.
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I might be wrong, but knowing Carey's flavour of Anglicanism I can imagine him being happy with Ball swearing on a Bible that he was innocent. For the same reason I doubt Carey told anyone outside of his own circle what was going on. Other Evangelical bishops, yes. Her Maj, no. Not Bible believing enough. And he is very arrogant. I don't believe he would have sought the advice of any politician.
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I might be wrong, but knowing Carey's flavour of Anglicanism I can imagine him being happy with Ball swearing on a Bible that he was innocent. For the same reason I doubt Carey told anyone outside of his own circle what was going on. Other Evangelical bishops, yes. Her Maj, no. Not Bible believing enough. And he is very arrogant. I don't believe he would have sought the advice of any politician.
Which is fine but you don't need to be seeking advice. Arrogance can lead people to announce things. The point is surely that speculation of how high something goes is not making a statement about how high something goes?
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I heard this on the radio on way home.
Nothing new or surprising about any of it. I knew abut the ex-Bishop of Lewes years ago & that came as a surprise at the time because he was so welll liked & generally highly regarded.
As life goes on you realise you can't take anything for granted!
Carey maintains he believed in Peter Ball's innocence & we can't prove otherwise. He didn't handle it right tho' & has to answer for that.
Floo abuse of all kinds happens everywhere. Relgious organisations afford prominent members some clout or 'standing' which they can hide behind if they have any nasty proclivities
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So he did have political and royal backing. Not Carey. Ball himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/07/bishop-peter-ball-escaped-charges-mps-royal-family-intervened-court
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Yeah he had a lot of support. He was the sort of person about whom people would say "No! can't be true!" & would almost die to protect him.
Not now though, naivety is a thing of the past.
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It went all the way up to Lord Carey who was, at the time, Archbishop of Canterbury.
From the quoted piece on the OP
Quote - Ball was given funds authorised by Lord Carey to support him.
Lord Carey also wrote to Ball's identical twin brother, Michael Ball - another bishop - in 1993 saying: "I believed him to be basically innocent" - Unquote
For various assualts on 18 men and boys - WHICH HE ADMITTED - he got just 32 months!
The pervert should have been given a much longer sentence.
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This is sad.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/15/i-told-so-many-bishops-survivor-tells-of-system-that-protected-priest
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It's horrific Rhiannon!
This bit got to me -
'He speaks of a culture of inertia, obfuscation, denial and cover-up. “I raised core, critical issues with a very significant senior slice of the church down through the decades. I told an astonishing number of people.”
Even when, finally, he formally reported the abuse, he felt “blanked”. “It’s a very effective device for shutting down an issue. And you leave the issue, the burden, on the survivor’s shoulders – who feels cowed, intimidated by the weight of silence.” '
Moore was so very eminent - & then Fisher!
That poor lad didn't stand a chance.
There are many more whose stories won't ever come to light because there isn't enough detailed evidence.
So glad society has moved on and no-one is above being checked out in advance & investigated if there are complaints.
(A big problem now is secret organisations difficult to penetrate, of people who groom on internet & engineer meets.)
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I think I found his account of what Fisher did every bit as horrifying. What an utter bastard.
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Nothing new here, how about Bishop Murphy O'Connor, moved, I'll assume to cover up, a well known child abuser Michael Hill to Gatwick airport where he spent part of his time abusing handicapped children and then soon after that lot Murphy O'Connor headed an inquiry panel looking into child abuse committed in Island.
This sort of thing seems to go along with these organisations, whilst I can appreciate there will always be some bad eggs in any organisation, it's the covering up that's so unforgivable to my mind, there's no excuse to be made for any of that.
Having said the above the C of E seems to be in the minor league compared to the catholics.
ippy
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Welby has sacked Carey I think.
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Slimy bunch Rhiannon.
People like them can tell who is especially vulnerable by the way they speak, mannerisms, hesitancies, shyness & uncertain look in their eyes. They wouldn't dare pick on witty, confident & popular youngsters - who'd be likely to kick 'em in crotch anyway.
Makes me shudder.
Emerg - yes Justin Welby has asked George Carey to 'step down'. He is 81so not a biggy really. Not much else can be done about him though, people make mistakes when it comes to character judgement.
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Welby has sacked Carey I think.
Does it matter? Is this in some way important?
ippy
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Yes, within Anglicanism.
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Nothing new here, how about Bishop Murphy O'Connor, moved, I'll assume to cover up, a well known child abuser Michael Hill to Gatwick airport where he spent part of his time abusing handicapped children and then soon after that lot Murphy O'Connor headed an inquiry panel looking into child abuse committed in Island.
This sort of thing seems to go along with these organisations, whilst I can appreciate there will always be some bad eggs in any organisation, it's the covering up that's so unforgivable to my mind, there's no excuse to be made for any of that.
Having said the above the C of E seems to be in the minor league compared to the catholics.
ippy
Would be ippy. Smaller organisation.
There are many even smaller, tiny, who have the same problems.
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Would be ippy. Smaller organisation.
There are many even smaller, tiny, who have the same problems.
Yes?
ippy
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Deffo. They make news sometimes.
Some are individual churches with little or no links to others, no hierarchy to speak of except within that small community.
PleaseDon't think i spend my time searching out lurid news pieces but have come across some reports.
Not always clergy but people heavily involved in church & well thought of who do 'church work'.
Wearying isn't it?
Not just churches either......same old, same old.
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This kind of behaviour is why there are Witch Covens that consist of only teenage girls.
Very few covens that have adult male members will accept as potential members anyone under the age of twenty-one, a few will accept eighteen-year old males dedicants, but they will be put under the tutelage of a an adult female.
Why? Because Witches Covens have been accused of doing what the Christian church has been covering up for years, the sexual abuse of the young. With Chritians it is usually young boys - witches get accused of abusing young girls.
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I understand that now Owlswing.
Girls are abused in churches too especially 'needy' ones, in care, in trouble.Also older girls & young women who seek counsel, maybe already in abusive relationships. All very 'clever' on part of the perps.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-40407464
Carey has stepped down.