Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: NicholasMarks on September 16, 2017, 12:32:12 PM
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Here's something I prepared earlier for a different audience...enjoy...
Revelation 1-22
It seems that we are well and truly living through that period identified as the ‘last days.’
It is a fearful time and Satan is winding up so much confusion that the hysteria will spread out throughout the world on a global scale and everyone will need to question their faith…but remember this…Almighty God, Jehovah, and Jesus Christ, went to great lengths to prepare us for this time. Even Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection were experienced so that those who put faith in God through Jesus, at this time, will have a deeper hope, and know how to behave at this time. There is no question about whether we can be resurrected or not…we can…all because the energy we are invited to share in, God’s fountain of living waters, is indestructible, and we know that meekness and righteous obedience will attach us to this source of refreshment, delivering all of Jesus’ promises to us, now, throughout these tribulations and in the future new heaven and the new Earth.
We must gear ourselves to await the imminent passing of Wormwood, which, we are told, will ultimately, dissolve the elements…but those following Jesus, accurately, will come to live on, in peace, harmony, health, good-order, and in a righteous new world…but Satan will set many traps for us all, until he is hurled into the great abyss.
Revelation 22:21…May the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus be with the holy ones.
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Signs of the end times indeed but we've had them many times before, each time worse than previously at least to those living through it. Yet life for most of us is not bad Nick & to dwell too much on what might be is not healthy. Concern for others is important & enjoying our lives as much as we can too.
At least that passage indicates some will know everlasting & blissful life and the rest will be obliterated, nothing about eternal conscious torment.
Revelation is a story containing some truths but not literally true. Other faiths, including Hindusim, have similar.
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Signs of the end times indeed but we've had them many times before, each time worse than previously at least to those living through it. Yet life for most of us is not bad Nick & to dwell too much on what might be is not healthy. Concern for others is important & enjoying our lives as much as we can too.
At least that passage indicates some will know everlasting & blissful life and the rest will be obliterated, nothing about eternal conscious torment.
Revelation is a story containing some truths but not literally true. Other faiths, including Hindusim, have similar.
Revelation isn't yet fully played out Robinson. In fact, jusr as you have just stated, it will come at a time when people are saying all is well. If you had the global perspective you would nkow just how many people all around the world are experiencing some terrible floods, landslides, devastating fires and earthquakes..with much worse xpected. Not to worry though but Almighty God and Jesus don't see it like that and neither do I.
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Revelation is a book of fantasy, which can be interpreted in any crazy way you wish. I feel sorry for those who take it seriously, especially the end timers who have been spouting this garbage since Jesus died. He thought it was going to happen in the lifetime of his disciples, but if he couldn't get it right, no one can.
did you know?
the book of Revelation used to be called the book of Bollocks but the scribes decided to re-name it!
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. If you had the global perspective you would nkow just how many people all around the world are experiencing some terrible floods, landslides, devastating fires and earthquakes..
If you bothered to look at the historical global perspective then you would realise that there is nothing new in those disasters.
But you won't because it doesn't fit in with your fantasy.
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Floo/Seb/Walter...
The book of Revelation is an amazing teaching...It is written in a style that suited Bible followers years ago because it contains great power and truth that is denied the less interested and it grows with every generation that studies it.
It starts with the inauguration in Heaven of Jesus Christ over the planet Earth and over the entire jurisdiction of his father, Almighty God.
The 7 churches that Jesus himself started, here on Earth, are represented at that festival and Jesus gives them a stark warning if they misbehave or deviate from his teaching. It also tells us of the 4 living creatures who represent beings from the four corners of the universe. They are from many genetic cultures as noted by their combinations of life forms, and they also represent many people, because of the many eyes on them, and they each have the extra dimension of flight under their belts detailed by their extra wings.
They all agree with Almighty God's plan appertaining to the arrival of this rogue planetary system, that is now approaching the Earth, which is...let it serve as a Judgment. Those that believe in the wonderful way of life captured in Jesus' righteous teaching will be scientifically saved but those who prefer the attitude of those listed in Revelation 21:8 will not. Now...there is much more...but I'm just reading a little from that 'little scroll'...but it is very bitter, so we will do it a stage at a time.
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Floo/Seb/Walter...
The book of Revelation is an amazing teaching...It is written in a style that suited Bible followers years ago because it contains great power and truth that is denied the less interested and it grows with every generation that studies it.
It starts with the inauguration in Heaven of Jesus Christ over the planet Earth and over the entire jurisdiction of his father, Almighty God.
The 7 churches that Jesus himself started, here on Earth, are represented at that festival and Jesus gives them a stark warning if they misbehave or deviate from his teaching. It also tells us of the 4 living creatures who represent beings from the four corners of the universe. They are from many genetic cultures as noted by their combinations of life forms, and they also represent many people, because of the many eyes on them, and they each have the extra dimension of flight under their belts detailed by their extra wings.
They all agree with Almighty God's plan appertaining to the arrival of this rogue planetary system, that is now approaching the Earth, which is...let it serve as a Judgment. Those that believe in the wonderful way of life captured in Jesus' righteous teaching will be scientifically saved but those who prefer the attitude of those listed in Revelation 21:8 will not. Now...there is much more...but I'm just reading a little from that 'little scroll'...but it is very bitter, so we will do it a stage at a time.
NicholasMarks
I am amazed that you cannot hear the gales of lauughter that greets every post you make based upon your version of Chritianity, I have friends (yes, I do) who are Christian and even they consider you to exist on the very edges of Christianity when it comes to your interpretation of the Bible.
Some have even stated that they consider you to be one of those Christians who are probably driving people from the Church and stopping others from joining it.
The expression 'living in a world of your own' comes to mind.
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Revelation isn't yet fully played out Robinson. In fact, jusr as you have just stated, it will come at a time when people are saying all is well. If you had the global perspective you would nkow just how many people all around the world are experiencing some terrible floods, landslides, devastating fires and earthquakes..with much worse xpected. Not to worry though but Almighty God and Jesus don't see it like that and neither do I.
Nicholas, there have always been devastating natural disasters - there's been no time since beginning of time when these have not happened. Wars too. When I said "..all is good", I meant here in the 'Western world' & I meant for most of us probably including you. Even here terrible things happen, we've had several recently. We can't be complacent but are we supposed to be forever worrying about what might happen or go on with our business.
There is nothing new under the sun Nicholas. You may be right, I can't tell but I cannot stop the inevitable. While I'm here I do the best I can.
Owlswing, do you really discuss R&E posters with friends?
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Nicholas, there have always been devastating natural disasters - there's been no time since beginning of time when these have not happened. Wars too. When I said "..all is good", I meant here in the 'Western world' & I meant for most of us probably including you. Even here terrible things happen, we've had several recently. We can't be complacent but are we supposed to be forever worrying about what might happen or go on with our business.
There is nothing new under the sun Nicholas. You may be right, I can't tell but I cannot stop the inevitable. While I'm here I do the best I can.
Owlswing, do you really discuss R&E posters with friends?
First of all I suggest you take a peek at what is happening in America, as we speak. Secondly, I invite you to look at some youtube videos by the Two Preachers and all their research of unreported, but very serious, disasters that are occurring...as we speak, involving millions of people, from all around the world and which is largely going unreported. You might also like to look up in your skies occasionally and let me know what you think about all the chemtrailing. I could go on but you are unreceptive...but that doesn't prevent me from saying that it is all forewarned from within the Holy Bible which tells us how to be the most effective throughout...and, dare I say it...It involves the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.
ps...mention this to Seb and Floo as well.
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NicholasMarks
I am amazed that you cannot hear the gales of lauughter that greets every post you make based upon your version of Chritianity, I have friends (yes, I do) who are Christian and even they consider you to exist on the very edges of Christianity when it comes to your interpretation of the Bible.
Some have even stated that they consider you to be one of those Christians who are probably driving people from the Church and stopping others from joining it.
The expression 'living in a world of your own' comes to mind.
I'm all for a bit of humour Owlswing. Most Christians, correction, all Christians, have got to prepare for their bride and this can only mean putting on righteousness and the only way to do this is by...well...as above in Robinson's reply. Very soon you will come to realise why I am adamant on these matters...but at least you will have an escape route as long as you haven't burnt your bridges.
Your Christian friends aren't doing too much in saving you, are they??
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I'm all for a bit of humour Owlswing. Most Christians, correction, all Christians, have got to prepare for their bride and this can only mean putting on righteousness and the only way to do this is by...well...as above in Robinson's reply. Very soon you will come to realise why I am adamant on these matters...but at least you will have an escape route as long as you haven't burnt your bridges.
Your Christian friends aren't doing too much in saving you, are they??
you crack me up mate , well done hahahaha
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You aren't 'saving ' anyone NM, your posts lack any credibility.
The Holy Bible has all the credibility I need, Floo. No one can supercede Jesus Christ's teaching...I'm simply trying to help, and, on that path, certain ideas of how I can be saved and how you can be saved have flooded into my mind's eye...because when you realise how the bare bones of science work a whole network of our difficult problems finds expression in our thinking.
It is that science I am trying to righteously tell you all about because in the proccess of discovering and working these things I have gleaned a lot of evidence...but it isn't for sneerers, or the unGodly, I can wait until after Wormwood. But I would prefer that many others are saved...though I know that their sincere consent to adhere to righteousness, accurately, as Jesus alone taught us, is an imperative.
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I'm all for a bit of humour Owlswing. Most Christians, correction, all Christians, have got to prepare for their bride and this can only mean putting on righteousness and the only way to do this is by...well...as above in Robinson's reply. Very soon you will come to realise why I am adamant on these matters...but at least you will have an escape route as long as you haven't burnt your bridges.
Your Christian friends aren't doing too much in saving you, are they??
You first paragraph is not worthy of comment.
My Christian friends are, and remain, my Christian friends because they are open-minded enough to recognise that their religious beliefs are, like my own, matters of FAITH and NOT of FACT and thus there is little friction on the subject.
The difference between my Christian friends and you, NM, is that they talk sense while you talk, IMO, total bollocks.
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The Holy Bible has all the credibility I need, Floo. No one can supercede Jesus Christ's teaching...I'm simply trying to help, and, on that path, certain ideas of how I can be saved and how you can be saved have flooded into my mind's eye...because when you realise how the bare bones of science work a whole network of our difficult problems finds expression in our thinking.
It is that science I am trying to righteously tell you all about because in the proccess of discovering and working these things I have gleaned a lot of evidence...but it isn't for sneerers, or the unGodly, I can wait until after Wormwood. But I would prefer that many others are saved...though I know that their sincere consent to adhere to righteousness, accurately, as Jesus alone taught us, is an imperative.
Sorry NM your posts make no sense at all, no one on this forum, including Christians, take you seriously. I know many Christians and not one of them has equated their faith with 'science'.
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Owlswing, do you really discuss R&E posters with friends?
NO NO NO a thousand times NO! That would be, I imagine, a monumental breach of Forum rules and etiquette!
What I do discuss with them, the Christian ones, are the contents of some of the more ridiculous beliefs and positions posted.
The general concensus offered by my Christian friends is that the people posting the opinions discussed are either on a huge wind-up or are stupid or on the outer fringes of Christian belief.
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NO NO NO a thousand times NO! That would be, I imagine, a monumental breach of Forum rules and etiquette!
What I do discuss with them, the Christian ones, are the contents of some of the more ridiculous beliefs and positions posted.
The general concensus offered by my Christian friends is that the people posting the opinions discussed are either on a huge wind-up or are stupid or on the outer fringes of Christian belief.
You realise that the Jewish priests and those that were easily influenced by them said exactly the same things about Jesus don't you Owlswing.
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You realise that the Jewish priests and those that were easily influenced by them said exactly the same things about Jesus don't you Owlswing.
Without resort to quoting from the Bible show me where there is any evidence of these people saying the things you are saying that they said.
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Without resort to quoting from the Bible show me where there is any evidence of these people saying the things you are saying that they said.
The Jews are saying it still Owlswing...and I read similar comments on this forum about this wonderful person who leads those who need him most out of the hands of oppression...not necessarily the type of oppression you might consider oppression, but the type that is creeping up on the whole world even as we speak and which will be fully revealed to us all, soon enough.
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The Jews are saying it still Owlswing...and I read similar comments on this forum about this wonderful person who leads those who need him most out of the hands of oppression...not necessarily the type of oppression you might consider oppression, but the type that is creeping up on the whole world even as we speak and which will be fully revealed to us all, soon enough.
Do me a favour please, NM
When you decide to speak/write in English and not gobbledegook send me a PM and I will start to read your posts again - at the moment reading them just gives me a headache bordering on a migraine.
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Do me a favour please, NM
When you decide to speak/write in English and not gobbledegook send me a PM and I will start to read your posts again - at the moment reading them just gives me a headache bordering on a migraine.
it's a wind up , a very clever one , don't get drawn in.
NM is a fictitious character, as is another I see on here!
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Do me a favour please, NM
When you decide to speak/write in English and not gobbledegook send me a PM and I will start to read your posts again - at the moment reading them just gives me a headache bordering on a migraine.
Very soon you will all know what I'm talking about, Owlswing. I'm seeing it ahead of you lot because, well, I have listened to Revelation and have a very good idea of how it will all pan out...and Jesus Christ looms large in how it will affect us all.
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Very soon you will all know what I'm talking about
Be honest now Nick.
For how many years have you been predicting 'soon'/'very soon'?
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Very soon you will all know what I'm talking about, Owlswing. I'm seeing it ahead of you lot because, well, I have listened to Revelation and have a very good idea of how it will all pan out...and Jesus Christ looms large in how it will affect us all.
I'm guessing you are game keeper turned poacher with an agenda to turn people away from Christianity by making it look ridiculous. You are doing a great job and very amusing too . keep it up Nick.
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Be honest now Nick.
For how many years have you been predicting 'soon'/'very soon'?
Soon...here...means imminently...it's already happening...Seb. You just have to be tuned in to see it. If the Holy Bible doesn't cut it with you try youtube using the tabs...chemtrails, planet x, hurricane irma, fema camps...and don't think you are somehow excused because...well...it doesn't bother you too much...because the Last Trumpet will settle all scores, once and for all...It's all in Revelation.
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Soon...here...means imminently...it's already happening...Seb. You just have to be tuned in to see it. If the Holy Bible doesn't cut it with you try youtube using the tabs...chemtrails, planet x, hurricane irma, fema camps...and don't think you are somehow excused because...well...it doesn't bother you too much...because the Last Trumpet will settle all scores, once and for all...It's all in Revelation.
I reckon some people will be making 'end times' predictions 2000 years hence assuming Christianity hasn't been dispensed with.
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I reckon some people will be making 'end times' predictions 2000 years hence assuming Christianity hasn't been dispensed with.
Almighty God isn't slow in how we perceive slowness...it is because he wants everyone who can repent, to do so. The salvation science just wont work if we don't. But you already know this because you have already read what is in the, Holy Bible...haven't you??
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Almighty God isn't slow in how we perceive slowness...it is because he wants everyone who can repent, to do so. The salvation science just wont work if we don't. But you already know this because you have already read what is in the, Holy Bible...haven't you??
Science doesn't feature in the Bible! ::)
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Science doesn't feature in the Bible! ::)
I've already explained Floo that it does...it's just overstated by the more important issues pertaining to life. You see, if you want your word to go over the period of say 10,000 years, intended to help people, you play down the bits that people wont understand until they reach an intellectual level where they might understand and at that time they wont tell you in a manner to suit Floo...they will tell us in a manner that suits Jesus Christ...and he told us to expect a powerful Judgment unleashed by a fiery lake of sulphur and I simply want to help you and anyone else who rejects righteousness a helping hand in being saved.
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Soon...here...means imminently...
Not the question I asked Nick.
Go back and read the question.
If you cannot accurately understand a simple question then I can only conclude that your so called accurate understanding of 'science' is flawed, greatly flawed.
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Your definition of science is an NM construct. ::)
Any god who would consign people to a lake of fire for mere unbelief is beyond evil. >:(
Your not reading what is written Floo just rebounding back with more of the same antiChristian stuff.
If a planet, Biblically called Wormwood, comes around every few thousand years and you are warned to follow a certain path because you will not be saved from it otherwise, that is down to you. Almighty God and Jesus Christ have done their part...now you must do yours. It's ok to ignore the warning...but it seems such a waste...especially amid all the promises made to those who are saved.
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Your not reading what is written Floo just rebounding back with more of the same antiChristian stuff.
If a planet, Biblically called Wormwood, comes around every few thousand years and you are warned to follow a certain path because you will not be saved from it otherwise, that is down to you. Almighty God and Jesus Christ have done their part...now you must do yours. It's ok to ignore the warning...but it seems such a waste...especially amid all the promises made to those who are saved.
We know it does NOT come round, otherwise the orbits of the planets would be different to what they are.
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Almighty God isn't slow in how we perceive slowness...it is because he wants everyone who can repent, to do so. The salvation science just wont work if we don't. But you already know this because you have already read what is in the, Holy Bible...haven't you??
If your Almighty God will not initiate the "End Times" until we all repent it ain't gonna happen 'cos I ain't repenting NOTHING! Not nohow!
Tough luck NM - no apocalypse for you!
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Almighty God isn't slow in how we perceive slowness...it is because he wants everyone who can repent, to do so. The salvation science just wont work if we don't. But you already know this because you have already read what is in the, Holy Bible...haven't you??
You're alluding to the letter of 2Peter (3:9) where the author tries to save face because he was already, in those decades after the Crucifixion*, being harassed for an explanation as to why God hadn't already wound up 'this system of things' as they'd been told Christ and Paul had said (the text of the NT makes the implication of imminent End quite clear).
Of course, this didn't stop countless 'enthusiasts' throughout history still expecting the End to be "just round the corner". In this sense, Nick, you're just one in a long line of self-styled prophets, though most of the previous crowd have probably been just a little less free in their interpretation of biblical text. Well, they were all wrong. But of course, you're different.....
You might like to take a little instruction from the lessons of history (though the idea of being instructed probably doesn't appeal). William Miller for instance. Miller was a Baptist preacher who predicted the End of the World for certain on various dates between 1843 - 1844, the final fiasco being known as The Great Disappointment. Unfortunately, many of his followers had sold up their businesses and homes in expectation of the End. There is one detail which does have some tangential relevance to yourself, given your enthusiasm for "The New World Translation". Several offshoots of Miller's teaching survived, and continue as sects to this day - particularly the Seventh Day Adventists, who greatly influenced Charles Taze Russell, the founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The JWs, of course, are notorious for their predictions of imminent Armageddon, and have given at least ten dates for the same since their foundation (the last specific and of course fallacious one being 1975). I don't suppose they're likely to clasp you to their bosom, though, despite the good word you put in for them. They're far too authoritarian, and your free-associative ramblings would not be welcome in the headquarters of Watchtower Inc.
*The letter attributed to Peter probably dates from the 2nd century, long after the original Peter was dead, if indeed there was an original Peter in the first place.
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If your Almighty God will not initiate the "End Times" until we all repent it ain't gonna happen 'cos I ain't repenting NOTHING! Not nohow!
Tough luck NM - no apocalypse for you!
Your twisting words Owlswing...It don't matter...It will come, it will go...and those who are saved will be saved in a new heavens and a new Earth and those that wont be saved...well they wont.
I've just posted this youtube on my other post theme...I advise you to watch it as well as ippy. But we make our own choices on these sensitive issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39a7nbf8ro4
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You're alluding to the letter of 2Peter (3:9) where the author tries to save face because he was already, in those decades after the Crucifixion*, being harassed for an explanation as to why God hadn't already wound up 'this system of things' as they'd been told Christ and Paul had said (the text of the NT makes the implication of imminent End quite clear).
Of course, this didn't stop countless 'enthusiasts' throughout history still expecting the End to be "just round the corner". In this sense, Nick, you're just one in a long line of self-styled prophets, though most of the previous crowd have probably been just a little less free in their interpretation of biblical text. Well, they were all wrong. But of course, you're different.....
You might like to take a little instruction from the lessons of history (though the idea of being instructed probably doesn't appeal). William Miller for instance. Miller was a Baptist preacher who predicted the End of the World for certain on various dates between 1843 - 1844, the final fiasco being known as The Great Disappointment. Unfortunately, many of his followers had sold up their businesses and homes in expectation of the End. There is one detail which does have some tangential relevance to yourself, given your enthusiasm for "The New World Translation". Several offshoots of Miller's teaching survived, and continue as sects to this day - particularly the Seventh Day Adventists, who greatly influenced Charles Taze Russell, the founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The JWs, of course, are notorious for their predictions of imminent Armageddon, and have given at least ten dates for the same since their foundation (the last specific and of course fallacious one being 1975). I don't suppose they're likely to clasp you to their bosom, though, despite the good word you put in for them. They're far too authoritarian, and your free-associative ramblings would not be welcome in the headquarters of Watchtower Inc.
*The letter attributed to Peter probably dates from the 2nd century, long after the original Peter was dead, if indeed there was an original Peter in the first place.
Thank you Dicky for your very well thought out post. I realise that there are many confusing issues on the points I make about the end days. We don't know exactly when but the signs are now stronger than ever.
I've enclosed a youtube video on a previous post...I wont do it again, here, but advise anyone interested in what is going on around the world, right now, to have a look...and I can tell you it is being hidden from general view whilst those in the know and have the money to spare are building luxury bunkers for themselves and other nefarious behaviours which is all available for us to view, at the moment, through youtube. A behaviour pattern protecting the few but not many others. In fact, there are stark warnings for those who find themselves in need of help.
I'm saying, no need for all of that...just follow Jesus accurately and leave the rest to the Gospels and the hope in Jesus for his resurrection promises which include all who ever lived. That is the power of this indestructible energy, called here...God' fountain of living waters.
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We know it does NOT come round, otherwise the orbits of the planets would be different to what they are.
I could go into orbital patterns with you BeRational but I'm not sure you would grasp my point there anymore than you grasp my point here. All the planets are currently showing gravitational distress, according to many researchers...none more so than planet Earth.
Now, to fit into my understanding there are 3 aspects to orbital motion.
i....pulled to the sun by gravity.
2...then slipping into weightlessness.
3...then expelled away from the sun by centrifugal force.
4...then leaving the sun, creating an elliptical orbit before slipping into weightlessness again so that gravity can take control yet again...pulling the planet back.
So, you see the problem isn't so easy to resolve as you seem to think...but there is no guessing when Wormwood will be at its most dangerous, so I reckon that's just as long as we have to repent effectively.
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Nicholas Marks
Two points:
1. You know something? I'll take Prof Brian cox's word over yours every time!!
2. Why don't you come clean, own up, admit, that you know that all this tripe you have been typing for years is just one big wind up, a con, a falsehood, an attempt at world domination, etc?
:)
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I could go into orbital patterns with you BeRational but I'm not sure you would grasp my point there anymore than you grasp my point here. All the planets are currently showing gravitational distress, according to many researchers...none more so than planet Earth.
Now, to fit into my understanding there are 3 aspects to orbital motion.
i....pulled to the sun by gravity.
2...then slipping into weightlessness.
3...then expelled away from the sun by centrifugal force.
4...then leaving the sun, creating an elliptical orbit before slipping into weightlessness again so that gravity can take control yet again...pulling the planet back.
So, you see the problem isn't so easy to resolve as you seem to think...but there is no guessing when Wormwood will be at its most dangerous, so I reckon that's just as long as we have to repent effectively.
look Nick, you've got a good gig going on here , don't ruin it . Some of us have studied real science so don't embarrass yourself. You can fool some of the people some of the time......................
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Name the researchers claiming planets including Earth are suffering from 'gravitational distress'! I looked the term up on google and could find nothing to support your claim.
Here is one account of it all Floo...Gravitational Distress is my term for when things go wrong in the planets because that is usually what causes it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km3uhv6oVWg
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Nicholas Marks
Two points:
1. You know something? I'll take Prof Brian cox's word over yours every time!!
2. Why don't you come clean, own up, admit, that you know that all this tripe you have been typing for years is just one big wind up, a con, a falsehood, an attempt at world domination, etc?
:)
World domination is something we should all have huge concerns about at the moment Susan. But I'm afraid that as many are reading the signs as are reading the Holy Bible. How the Holy Bible can be considered tripe when many many people have found so much truth in it and so many tyrants, with a little alteration, have tried to build it into their systems of oppression, plus the fact that it is currently showing us the birth pains, expressed in Revelation, creeping up on us all, so graphically...let's not forget that the Jews under the direction of Almighty God, started it all.
I suggest you ask Brian Cox how all this indisputable, dynamic energy, entombed inside every atom and which has a wonderful explanation embodied within Bible teaching, can help you get saved from imminent disaster, if Jesus Christ can't.
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look Nick, you've got a good gig going on here , don't ruin it . Some of us have studied real science so don't embarrass yourself. You can fool some of the people some of the time......................
It's the only explanation, Walter. This is why space objects can be slung out such great distances and still return. The pendulum uses a similar trick and I have put this knowledge to good use in my own life experiences. There is a moment in orbital motion when a body becomes weightless and this is the signal for centrifugal force to switch to gravity and vice versa.
ps...This why, when the planets were ejected out of our sun they fell into orbital motion and didn't just keep going.
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Here is one account of it all Floo...Gravitational Distress is my term for when things go wrong in the planets because that is usually what causes it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km3uhv6oVWg
hahahahahahahaah! you're good.
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Your twisting words Owlswing...It don't matter...It will come, it will go...and those who are saved will be saved in a new heavens and a new Earth and those that wont be saved...well they wont.
I've just posted this youtube on my other post theme...I advise you to watch it as well as ippy. But we make our own choices on these sensitive issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39a7nbf8ro4
Why do you keep banging out such a load of old tosh Nick, all without a shred of evidence that would support the veracity of, up until now, of any of it?
I reckon you're like a few others that post on the forum and unfortunately for all of you, you are more susceptible to childhood indoctrination than most, it must be so or you lot wouldn't keep on with this load of religion based old tripe.
ippy
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NM
I am sorry, but I have just read through all your posts on this thread and more than a few on others.
I very much regret that there is only one logical conclusion to which I can attribute the things that you write.
You are without doubt one of the biggest, if not THE BIGGEST, WUM ever!
This being the case I can safely ignore you as this is, of course, the only treatment for what you are doing - no audience = no-one to wind up!
One last point - when, or if, you ever find someone else who agres with your version of the was of things get them to join this Forum so we can see that you are not alone.
Farewell WUM NM
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NM
I am sorry, but I have just read through all your posts on this thread and more than a few on others.
I very much regret that there is only one logical conclusion to which I can attribute the things that you write.
You are without doubt one of the biggest, if not THE BIGGEST, WUM ever!
This being the case I can safely ignore you as this is, of course, the only treatment for what you are doing - no audience = no-one to wind up!
One last point - when, or if, you ever find someone else who agres with your version of the was of things get them to join this Forum so we can see that you are not alone.
Farewell WUM NM
I'm sorry you see things that way Owlswing but the subject is so deep and intense that without the open mindedness that righteousness induces and occasionally reading the various books in the Holy Bible you become like a little boy, with no musical knowledge, who sits down at a piano for the first time and tries to play Beethoven's 5th...it will not happen...So...get yourself a good copy of the Holy Bible and start the technical detail first...then you may become an accomplished technician in the righteous arts than can save you.
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NM
I am sorry, but I have just read through all your posts on this thread and more than a few on others.
I very much regret that there is only one logical conclusion to which I can attribute the things that you write.
You are without doubt one of the biggest, if not THE BIGGEST, WUM ever!
This being the case I can safely ignore you as this is, of course, the only treatment for what you are doing - no audience = no-one to wind up!
One last point - when, or if, you ever find someone else who agres with your version of the was of things get them to join this Forum so we can see that you are not alone.
Farewell WUM NM
Owl whilst you may have a point, I have to say for N M although his posts might be a bit off key, I'm sure he is a very sincere man and I've never known him to be anything less than polite no matterwhat he has chucked at him.
Regards ippy
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I could go into orbital patterns with you BeRational but I'm not sure you would grasp my point there anymore than you grasp my point here. All the planets are currently showing gravitational distress, according to many researchers...none more so than planet Earth.
Now, to fit into my understanding there are 3 aspects to orbital motion.
i....pulled to the sun by gravity.
2...then slipping into weightlessness.
3...then expelled away from the sun by centrifugal force.
4...then leaving the sun, creating an elliptical orbit before slipping into weightlessness again so that gravity can take control yet again...pulling the planet back.
So, you see the problem isn't so easy to resolve as you seem to think...but there is no guessing when Wormwood will be at its most dangerous, so I reckon that's just as long as we have to repent effectively.
It is easy to resolve.
The planet's are not in orbital stress.
They are stable.
There is no evidence for this planet you have been told about.
It is false.
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I'm sorry you see things that way Owlswing but the subject is so deep and intense that without the open mindedness that righteousness induces and occasionally reading the various books in the Holy Bible you become like a little boy, with no musical knowledge, who sits down at a piano for the first time and tries to play Beethoven's 5th...it will not happen...So...get yourself a good copy of the Holy Bible and start the technical detail first...then you may become an accomplished technician in the righteous arts than can save you.
I have read the Bible, I was, for the first 15 years of my life, brought up as Hoigh Church Anglican - my father's faith.
Unfortunately, at 15, I grew up and realised the hypocrisy and arrant nonsence that the Bible contains, hence my conversion to Paganism.
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Owl whilst you may have a point, I have to say for N M although his posts might be a bit off key, I'm sure he is a very sincere man and I've never known him to be anything less than polite no matterwhat he has chucked at him.
Regards ippy
Ippy
In my view that is precisely why he is so much of a joke - he actually believes the crap he posts.
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It is easy to resolve.
The planet's are not in orbital stress.
They are stable.
There is no evidence for this planet you have been told about.
It is false.
The problem is that when a planet becomes distressed its gravity is being altered but its long established gravity patterns maintain the equilibrium and so heat is induced and the various knock on effects that that causes. I have put a youtube video on here recently that scientifically explains some of the many disturbances that are happening in all the planets over recent years but the evidence of what is happening here on planet Earth is undeniable, suggesting what many researchers are saying...that is...that the fact that Wormwood is well on its way is quite true..
ps...busy day today so don't expect any fast responses.
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You are making it up NM, you have absolutely no evidence to back up your assertion that the planet is in Gravitational Distress. Your very unique interpretation of the Bible is not evidence in any shape or form. I am concerned that some vulnerable people looking in on this forum could be take in and distressed by your nonsense, which has no basis in fact. >:(
Floo, have you looked on YouTube? Jeeeez!
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The problem is that when a planet becomes distressed its gravity is being altered but its long established gravity patterns maintain the equilibrium and so heat is induced and the various knock on effects that that causes. I have put a youtube video on here recently that scientifically explains some of the many disturbances that are happening in all the planets over recent years but the evidence of what is happening here on planet Earth is undeniable, suggesting what many researchers are saying...that is...that the fact that Wormwood is well on its way is quite true..
ps...busy day today so don't expect any fast responses.
None of that is true.
You have been told some nonsense.
There are no planetary disturbances, and they have been stable for millions of years, and will be for millions more.
You need to stop looking at crazy websites that tell you nonsense.
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Sadly NM seems to have been taken in by the garbage some of these websites spout. :o
Floo, remember he's a joker.
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Floo, remember he's a joker.
Sadly, I think he believes this stuff, because he has spouted it for a long time.
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Sadly, I think he believes this stuff, because he has spouted it for a long time.
Further to #51
Sadly - that is about the only appropriate description for NM state.
It is his depth of belief in the nonsense he posts that is such a waste - if applied to something real it would be worth its weight in gold!
Alas . . .
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3...then expelled away from the sun by centrifugal force.
You need to learn about what centrifugal force actually is first in relation to planitary orbits before you spout off any more rubbish like this Nick.
Clue;
You wont find the answer in the bible!!
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I wasted about two minutes investigating the YouTube reference he gave. That was all I needed to realise that it was tripe or a con and possibly both. What saddened me was the number of comments and responses attached to the video. All appeared to be swallowing the nonsense and praising the man in the video.
Important to this tripe are some "Inuit elders". Quite what connection these ostensible tribal eskimo leaders have with Christianity is anybody's guess ...
There is the business of Earth "moving south" "South" is a geographic term related to the axis around which the Earth rotates. Earth cannot "move south" there is no north or south in space. And if you were to be on a point on the Earth which moved south, at its antipode would be a point moving north. One contributor stated that the times of dawn had changed (evidence of Earth moving south, I suppose). Sunrise and sunset times can be calculated for any date at any time whether in the past or the future. There is no evidence of any influence that would cause these to no longer be reliable.
So, Sparky, if you are not a WUM, just where is the evidence of the validity of these ... err ... events? And what is the relationship between eskimos and the bible?
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I wouldn't hold your breath if you are expecting a sensible answer to that question. ;D
. . . or to any other question addressed to NM . . . !
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Owlswing/Floo/Harrowby Hall/Seb/BeRational/Walter...
The problem is, you see, that it is all in the Holy Bible...Not my version of course, but the bare-bones behind what I'm saying. There are a number of instances where Almighty God's indestructible 'dynamic energy' is featured within Biblical pages...most obviously when Jesus was resurrected after saying, those that follow me (Jesus) will never die. So, even you lot have that ability to be resurrected, back to the flesh, if you could summon up enough faith. The 'word' demands that to benefit from God's science we must follow righteous laws and those righteous laws are embodied within the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
It's sad, but, because of your attitudes, I must deduce that there isn't much chance that you will pull it together in time...and you know what the alternative is.
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Ippy
In my view that is precisely why he is so much of a joke - he actually believes the crap he posts.
I have a lot of sympathy for your view, but he's not a bad person, I doubt if he'd knowingly cause any harm to anyone.
ippy
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I feel sorry for you NM I really do. I know some think you are a WUM, but I am of the opinion you genuinely believe the nonsense you are spouting, which makes it all the more sad. :(
That, dear Floo, is exactly why he IS a WUM! He KNOWS, he has been told often enough, and by enough people, that what he is posting is nonsense and that no-one believes a word of it, and he still posts more of it - that IS a wind-up.
He reminds me of a song by the Seekers from 1965 - In a World of our own (that no-one else can share)!
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NM doesn't believe what we are telling him, he is so sure of his own rightness, however wrong he is, he can't see the wood for the trees.
Perhaps that is because I prefer to be guided by Jesus Christ rather than Floo.
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Perhaps that is because I prefer to be guided by Jesus Christ rather than Floo.
Or even by scientists who, strangley enough, work in the 21st century CE, and thus know far more about science that the bunch of yokels who wrote the gospels etc!
Jesus Christ did not write the Bible, so whatever he might have thought and known is lost for ever as there is no record, even in the Bible, of him having written one single solitary word.
Floo has tried to defend the indefensible - you!
You might, for that reason alone, give her a bit of respect.
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Or even by scientists who, strangley enough, work in the 21st century CE, and thus know far more about science that the bunch of yokels who wrote the gospels etc!
What scientists guide you Owlswing? Dawkins has turned into New Atheism's version of Alf Garnett.
Sagan's yer man of course. Pre all this science equals anti religion revivalist crap.
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What scientists guide you Owlswing? Dawkins has turned into New Atheism's version of Alf Garnett.
Sagan's yer man of course. Pre all this science equals anti religion revivalist crap.
word soup , word soup , word soup.
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Perhaps that is because I prefer to be guided by Jesus Christ rather than Floo.
And which Jesus is that then?? The Biblical one or the real one ???
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Revelation isn't yet fully played out Robinson. In fact, jusr as you have just stated, it will come at a time when people are saying all is well. If you had the global perspective you would nkow just how many people all around the world are experiencing some terrible floods, landslides, devastating fires and earthquakes..with much worse xpected. Not to worry though but Almighty God and Jesus don't see it like that and neither do I.
Mortality rates due to natural disasters over the last 100 years peaked in the 1920's and have been falling ever since :
https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Death-rates-from-natural-catastrophes-Final.png
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word soup , word soup , word soup.
Vassler
I don't know if you've heard of Carl Sagan.
If Western philosophy is just footnotes to Plato then Dawkins, Cox, De Grasse Tyson, Kaku and Greene are footnotes to Sagan.
He was an agnostic but never went the whole atheist hog.
Dawkins missed his opportunity in producing a Sagan like masterpiece.
It could have been called the Success of Science and covered Darwinism and the effects on religion and society.
Instead we got Religion, the root of all evil.....IMHO solely antitheist axe grinding wankfodder.
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Vassler
I don't know if you've heard of Carl Sagan.
If Western philosophy is just footnotes to Plato then Dawkins, Cox, De Grasse Tyson, Kaku and Greene are footnotes to Sagan.
He was an agnostic but never went the whole atheist hog.
Since in at least one statement he apparently equated atheism with knowing that there are no gods (as opposed to simply not believing that there are any) I for one am not inclined to regard him as le dernier cri here.
Also, since Dawkins (like many of us here and unlike you) understands the difference between atheism and agnosticism, he too has stated his agnosticism - correctly, in his case.
Dawkins missed his opportunity in producing a Sagan like masterpiece.
Sounds like bullshit on stilts to me. I love Sagan's books as much as anyone, but in terms of popularity/visibility as well as raw units Dawkins surely outstrips him by a country mile. The Selfish Gene alone I should say ranks over The Dragons of Eden umpteen times over. And that's even before we get on to The Blind Watchmaker, Climbing Mount Improbable and the rest. Of Sagan's books best known to the general reading public I should say Cosmos and The Demon-Haunted World are likely the front runners. Both very, very fine works indeed; but in terms of bare sales and cultural influence, nope - Dawkins has the laurel here and I suspect you know it. Sorry - genuflect before your wood-panelled triptych of Sagan all you like but you're divorced from reality here.
Instead we got Religion, the root of all evil
Who has actually stated this, Vlad? Be specific. Name names. Squeal like a piggy. Sing like a widdle boidy. Spill the Heinz. Dob them in. Call the Government's 0800 rootofallevil.gov.uk hotline and report them anonymously.
(Pretty sure we've been here before ... but such is Vlad).
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Since in at least one statement he apparently equated atheism with knowing that there are no gods (as opposed to simply not believing that there are any) I for one am not inclined to regard him as le dernier cri here.
Also, since Dawkins (like many of us here and unlike you) understands the difference between atheism and agnosticism, he too has stated his agnosticism - correctly, in his case.
Sounds like bullshit on stilts to me. I love Sagan's books as much as anyone, but in terms of popularity/visibility as well as raw units Dawkins surely outstrips him by a country mile. The Selfish Gene alone I should say ranks over The Dragons of Eden umpteen times over. And that's even before we get on to The Blind Watchmaker, Climbing Mount Improbable and the rest. Of Sagan's books best known to the general reading public I should say Cosmos and The Demon-Haunted World are likely the front runners. Both very, very fine works indeed; but in terms of bare sales and cultural influence, nope - Dawkins has the laurel here and I suspect you know it. Sorry - genuflect before your wood-panelled triptych of Sagan all you like but you're divorced from reality here.
Who has actually stated this, Vlad? Be specific. Name names. Squeal like a piggy. Sing like a widdle boidy. Spill the Heinz. Dob them in. Call the Government's 0800 rootofallevil.gov.uk hotline and report them anonymously.
(Pretty sure we've been here before ... but such is Vlad).
My guess is that Vlad is referring to 'Cosmos' and comparing it to 'Root of All Evil?' as a TV show and missing the out question mark.
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My guess is that Vlad is referring to 'Cosmos' and comparing it to 'Root of All Evil?' as a TV show and missing the out question mark.
Surely you don't mean the question mark that Dawkins insisted on?
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Well there are sales of books and then there is getting round to reading them and of course, the coffee table in between
However, I'm talking about both television which has viewers and the public awareness of science.
We could argue whether Dawkins had the televisual access that Sagan had. My guess is that he did and he even had a job in that area.
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Well there are sales of books and then there is getting round to reading them and of course, the coffee table in between
... as Prof. Hawking would be the first to tell you.
However, I'm talking about both television which has viewers and the public awareness of science.
We could argue whether Dawkins had the televisual access that Sagan had. My guess is that he did and he even had a job in that area.
In terms of television Sagan probably edges it - Cosmos was deservedly popular. Public awareness of science - Dawkins, I think. He's never done all that much TV, presumably because he feels that it's not a medium that appeals to him anywhere near as much as writing. Dawkins is known as a superb writer, a great expositor of complex ideas in clear language; Sagan could do it too but I don't think anybody would say he was noted for it.
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What scientists guide you Owlswing? Dawkins has turned into New Atheism's version of Alf Garnett.
Sagan's yer man of course. Pre all this science equals anti religion revivalist crap.
When I need advice on science I will go to someone whose opinions I respect, thank you.
Dawkins - no- not my cup of tea - his atheism is almost as repugnant to me as Sassy's, Hope's and your Christianity.
Sagan - maybe, but I haven't read or seen much of his work.
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What scientists guide you Owlswing?
...and you?
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When I need advice on science I will go to someone whose opinions I respect, thank you.
Dawkins - no- not my cup of tea - his atheism is almost as repugnant to me as Sassy's, Hope's and your Christianity.
Sagan - maybe, but I haven't read or seen much of his work.
Why would Dawkins' atheism affect whether you would take his advice on science?
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...and you?
A whole host thank you, most recently Davies I suppose.
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A whole host thank you, most recently Davies I suppose.
Not Marks?
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Why would Dawkins' atheism affect whether you would take his advice on science?
Strangely enough because I only know him for his atheism
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Strangely enough because I only know him for his atheism
Unfortunately this is true of many - too many.
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I have just been exploring Wikipedia. I came across the name Zecharia Sitchin.
I did not dig any further after reading the Wiki entry, but there did appear to be some similarity between Mr Sitchin's ... err ... intellectual outpourings and our Nick's hidden planet stuff. Read it yourselves.
Incidentally, I did not watch all of the YouTube farrago - I have my sanity to think of - but am I correct in thinking that something significant is going to happen on 23 September? Have we got a reliable date for the end of the world or something?
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Perhaps that is because I prefer to be guided by Jesus Christ rather than Floo.
How can you possibly be guided by someone that odds on probably didn't even exist as being someone out of the ordinary.
It's doubtful and unlikely he was sent here by anything or anyone that there is zero evidence for, like a non existent god, and the fact he's been dead for about a couple of thousand years anyway, plus the stories about him were written some time after his death and they can't and haven't been verified as factual either?
Assertions don't, never can or have counted as evidence at any time, I wonder why this fact is so hard for you to understand Nick?
Perhaps you're missing something Nick, suppose I went to my bank and asked them for one of the two million pounds I don't have in my account, the bank clark will look at my account on the computer screen and then say well you've only got a fiver in your account, so I think to myself this is easy, and I say no I've got a couple of million in there, then the bank clark says, oh sorry I didn't realise and promptly asks me how I want the money paid out? It's not going to happen is it Nick?
Now the above is how you come over to me when you're presenting things like Jesus says:
You wouldn't expect the bank to accept my assertion that I've two million in my bank account, why do you think it's any more acceptable to accept your assertion when in an exactly similar way when you assert things like Jesus says this or that?
I haven't got a shred of evidence that I've got two million quid in the bank any more than you have a shred of evidence that Jesus said this, that or anything else when you assert he said this, that or anything else?
You very well may believe Jesus said all sorts of things Nick, but without verifiable evidence how can you or anyone else possibly know if he even existed and if he did, did he say the things you think he said Nick?
Again where's your verifiable evidence that this he she or it thing you refer to as god really exists? Simple question Nick.
No need for a sermon Nick just an answer to the question asked'll do.
Kind regards ippy
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I have just been exploring Wikipedia. I came across the name Zecharia Sitchin.
I did not dig any further after reading the Wiki entry, but there did appear to be some similarity between Mr Sitchin's ... err ... intellectual outpourings and our Nick's hidden planet stuff. Read it yourselves.
Incidentally, I did not watch all of the YouTube farrago - I have my sanity to think of - but am I correct in thinking that something significant is going to happen on 23 September? Have we got a reliable date for the end of the world or something?
Sitchin is quite interesting, he starts his speculation based on (supposedly) clues left behind by ancient visitors from space rather than the bible. His work does contain a lot of interesting facts and ideas unlike NM's which is a complete stream of nonsense. If alien cosmonauts did leave clues, maybe they were incorporated in the bible in some, possibly distorted, form?
Anyway, a recent study has found a record of a comet (probably asteroid) impact with earth, correlated with the start of the Younger Dryas, on the pillars at Gobekli Tepi. Something suggested by Graham Hancock - who references Sitchin on various points.
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-ancient-stone-pillars-clues-comet.html
None of this is to say that predictions of such events have any credibility. We need to find and track the objects in space and determine if they are headed for us. Even if we find they are, there is little we can do about it - let's just hope they are small and don't hit anything critical.
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Here is a reference to events expected on 23 September:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/856288/end-of-the-world-September-23-2017-Nibiru-Planet-X
Please note that it comes from one of the most authoritative and respected organs of the British press and that it is labelled "Science". It cannot therefore be rejected as a hoax. We must take it at its face value. Everything will change on Saturday - life on Earth as we know it will be totally destroyed.
I suppose I must take my leave from you all. Thank you, Nick, for drawing this to my attention - I owe you a great debt of gratitude. I dare say I may well post items on this forum during whatever time is left to me, but let me take this opportunity to say good bye to all my friends on the Religion and Ethics Forum. :-[ :-[ :-[
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Sitchin is quite interesting, he starts his speculation based on (supposedly) clues left behind by ancient visitors from space rather than the bible. His work does contain a lot of interesting facts and ideas unlike NM's which is a complete stream of nonsense. If alien cosmonauts did leave clues, maybe they were incorporated in the bible in some, possibly distorted, form?
Anyway, a recent study has found a record of a comet (probably asteroid) impact with earth, correlated with the start of the Younger Dryas, on the pillars at Gobekli Tepi. Something suggested by Graham Hancock - who references Sitchin on various points.
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-ancient-stone-pillars-clues-comet.html
None of this is to say that predictions of such events have any credibility. We need to find and track the objects in space and determine if they are headed for us. Even if we find they are, there is little we can do about it - let's just hope they are small and don't hit anything critical.
oh dear! oh dear oh frickin dear!
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oh dear! oh dear oh frickin dear!
ah .. you don't like "off the wall" theories?
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ah .. you don't like "off the wall" theories?
He doesn't like anyone or anything to do with religion!
His only real skill - as demonstrated on this Forum - is abuse in one form or another.
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It's not religious, just mad on its own terms ;D
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It's not religious, just mad on its own terms ;D
Expect to get Modded - you are not allowed to call someone's mental state into question
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oh dear! oh dear oh frickin dear!
Many years ago I was recommended to read Sitchin. Well, I bought a bargain set of paperbacks and was quite interested. Then looked for the sceptical view - which confirmed my opinion of the books! Later I put them all, torn up, into the recycle bag, since I thought it would be unfair to encourage even one person to start believing them. There were some interesting pictures and points of view, but these were vastly outweighed by the distortions of facts and history.
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He doesn't like anyone or anything to do with religion!
His only real skill - as demonstrated on this Forum - is abuse in one form or another.
I love it when others speak for me, saves me the trouble.
Owly, do you feel suitably abused yet?
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Hi there Nick, just a thought, I note you disappear when someone, anyone nails you down to answering a specific question?
What's the problem Nick, can't answer without giving a sermon?
Haw about writing a sermon accompanied with an answer to the actual question asked, then that should keep you happy on both counts?
Hope to hear from you soon Nick with an answer and I wish you all of the very best, Lusi ippy
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No doubt NM is waiting with baited breath for that planet to collide with Earth tomorrow so he can say, 'I told you so'! If it doesn't happen, as is likely, I suspect he will disappear for a while until he can come up with another 'end times' scenario with which to 'terrify' us. ;D
I'm busy tomorrow, can we delay it?
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I'm busy tomorrow, can we delay it?
Do you know the old one, 'It's not the end of the world I'm worried about, it's the day after'.
Daft, yes, but I like it.
ippy
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I bet a large sum of dosh we will still be here, posting as usual, on Sept 24th. ;D
Did you post that before you knew I'd be upgrading the forum software today?
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NICK I'm so disappointed so far Only 11and half hours left here.!!!!!!!! and NOTHING
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Phew
Wow
What an experience. That blazing flash of all-consuming light. The roaring sound - so deep it was unfathomable. The way the whole world began to spin and the overwhelming simultaneous feeling of weight and weightlessness as gravity disappeared.
And the sight of the whole of humanity standing before The Great Throne. Totally naked - including that girl from down the road with the big ....
And then I woke up.
Well, Nick, another defeat for the credulous.
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http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/end-of-world-still-coming-soon-christian-numerologists-say-it-was-just-postponed/ar-AAsqa7C?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartandhp
The end of the world has been postponed until October 21st! ;D
When it will be postponed until - - - anyoine taking bets on the next World End date?
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Moderator:
Please note that a number of posts that involved commenting on various other members have been removed as a derail.
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When it will be postponed until - - - anyoine taking bets on the next World End date?
October 21st is slated I believe.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/doomsday-october-bible/
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What about the new and improved date after that?
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Each time the date is changed no doubt another excuse will be made, which some will accept! ::)
really, I never thought of that.
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Each time the date is changed no doubt another excuse will be made, which some will accept! ::)
Eventually, they're going to be right.
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Sometimes people believe silly information because they never take in what the obvious truth is...
No one but my Father who is in heaven knows the day of my return.
If they don't know the day of Christ's return why would they know the end of the world?
As Christ said... People will be doing all the things they did then and now as before the flood. Going about their daily lives and suddenly
it comes upon them.
The end times have been with us, since Christ returned to God. However man is becoming more ungodly now more than any other time in the history of the world.
Sad that as people mocked Noah they will mock others too.
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Sometimes people believe silly information because they never take in what the obvious truth is...
No one but my Father who is in heaven knows the day of my return.
If they don't know the day of Christ's return why would they know the end of the world?
As Christ said... People will be doing all the things they did then and now as before the flood. Going about their daily lives and suddenly
it comes upon them.
The end times have been with us, since Christ returned to God. However man is becoming more ungodly now more than any other time in the history of the world.
Sad that as people mocked Noah they will mock others too.
What is really sad is that there are still people around who, despite two thousand years of human development in virtually every field of knowledge, still believe that the person who they say created it all, who has given mankind the ability to achieve all that it has has done so just so he can say, at an unspecified future date, "I'm bored with this" and destroy it all.
What a pathetic and horrendous waste.
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Sometimes people believe silly information because they never take in what the obvious truth is...
No one but my Father who is in heaven knows the day of my return.
If they don't know the day of Christ's return why would they know the end of the world?
As Christ said... People will be doing all the things they did then and now as before the flood. Going about their daily lives and suddenly
it comes upon them.
The end times have been with us, since Christ returned to God. However man is becoming more ungodly now more than any other time in the history of the world.
Sad that as people mocked Noah they will mock others too.
With all of the tripe you keep coming out with Sass, it'd be more surprising if there wasn't any mockery.
By the way what's happened to the usual sermon of yours? You know your more usual lengthy type of sermon with all of the numbers that obviously must mean something to you?
ippy
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However man is becoming more ungodly now more than any other time in the history of the world.
Because murder, genocide, rape, child death and plagues are all down, you mean?
O.
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If religion died a death I don't think that would be any bad thing.
It's definitely on its way Floo, but don't forget we still have a few Zeus followers and I know some people that still believe in astrology, all equally credible, their'll always be a few?
ippy
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It's definitely on its way Floo, but don't forget we still have a few Zeus followers and I know some people that still believe in astrology, all equally credible, their'll always be a few?
ippy
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world!
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Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world!
Yes that is a worry, but the figures are looking good here in the UK, depending on your view, of course.
ippy
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Yes that is a worry, but the figures are looking good here in the UK, depending on your view, of course.
ippy
in the UK too , so that's not looking good to me .
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Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world!
How much of that is down to the absurd practice of counting the children of Muslim parents as Muslims?
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How much of that is down to the absurd practice of counting the children of Muslim parents as Muslims?
couldn't tell you mate. I only believe what I want to believe . ::) ::) ::)
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Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world!
Wouldn't you say that you were a Muslim if you had an AK47 pointing at your tackle?
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Wouldn't you say that you were a Muslim if you had an AK47 pointing at your tackle?
He possibly wouldn't care so much, given that AK47s are notoriously bad at hitting very small targets, even at close range! ;)
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He possibly wouldn't care so much, given that AK47s are notoriously bad at hitting very small targets, even at close range! ;)
OOOOO! Bitchy!
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He possibly wouldn't care so much, given that AK47s are notoriously bad at hitting very small targets, even at close range! ;)
ooooof, that hurt. :-[ :-[ :-[
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did you know?
the book of Revelation used to be called the book of Bollocks but the scribes decided to re-name it!
I think happened the same time Opal Fruits became Starbust
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What is really sad is that there are still people around who, despite two thousand years of human development in virtually every field of knowledge, still believe that the person who they say created it all, who has given mankind the ability to achieve all that it has has done so just so he can say, at an unspecified future date, "I'm bored with this" and destroy it all.
What a pathetic and horrendous waste.
IGNORANCE is the reason so many die.
King James Bible
Hosea 4:6a
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge,
God isn't destroying he making things anew. But look how destructive your words are and that is the reason the Old has to go.
To ensure the good remains.
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IGNORANCE is the reason so many die.
King James Bible
Hosea 4:6a
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge,
God isn't destroying he making things anew. But look how destructive your words are and that is the reason the Old has to go.
To ensure the good remains.
Honest Sassy - for a person with a brain you are as stupendous a failure as I can find anywhere, you are terminally incapable of a single solitary thought of your own.
If it ain't in the Bible you haven't a clue!
John 11:35
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Honest Sassy - for a person with a brain you are as stupendous a failure as I can find anywhere, you are terminally incapable of a single solitary thought of your own.
If it ain't in the Bible you haven't a clue!
John 11:35
Do you realise you are saying I am in agreement with God on his word?
It is knowing what is in the bible which tells us the things in the world you cannot fathom.
King James Bible
For the froward is abomination to the LORD: but his secret is with the righteous.
The bible is as much a pathway to God as Jesus Christ is today.
The same pathway which Christ trod. People of God are living beings. Alive to the presence and knowledge of God through Christ. You make yourself an enemy of others and the others are made your enemy by yourself.
Truth is... You are both the aggressor and defender, because religion makes you that way. But the enemy never had been your enemy only in your own mind and making.
Whatever your words it will carry no weight or power is will literally just return to you void because they are words of harm not good. Ever wondered why you feel as you do and why you say what you do?
Religion must be a pretty powerful thing in your consciousness for someone who believes no god exists? Why do you allow it to run your life and affect your emotions within yourself and the way you relate to others? Seems only you have the problem with religion and it is with yourself, alone.
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Do you realise you are saying I am in agreement with God on his word?
It is knowing what is in the bible which tells us the things in the world you cannot fathom.
King James Bible
For the froward is abomination to the LORD: but his secret is with the righteous.
The bible is as much a pathway to God as Jesus Christ is today.
The same pathway which Christ trod. People of God are living beings. Alive to the presence and knowledge of God through Christ. You make yourself an enemy of others and the others are made your enemy by yourself.
Truth is... You are both the aggressor and defender, because religion makes you that way. But the enemy never had been your enemy only in your own mind and making.
Whatever your words it will carry no weight or power is will literally just return to you void because they are words of harm not good. Ever wondered why you feel as you do and why you say what you do?
Religion must be a pretty powerful thing in your consciousness for someone who believes no god exists? Why do you allow it to run your life and affect your emotions within yourself and the way you relate to others? Seems only you have the problem with religion and it is with yourself, alone.
Funny you know Sass I look at these pages with wonder when I see how effective the indoctrination of various posters have taken upon themselves staring in the face of reality and rejecting reality.
I'm, I suppose your average Jo and manage to live a roughly normal life and feel I would like to think when I leave this world hopefully by my actions, I may have in some way left it a better place than when I entered, you see much like the majority of ordinary people.
All of the above without giving any religion a serious thought as practical solution to the worlds problems, apart from being astounded here how I read the religious utterances of otherwise sensible people, religion plays no part in my very normal family life, you could be the same as me Sass and have more time to do positive things much better than pointless things such as religious practises.
Kind regards ippy
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All too often the ones who give it large about their 'true' faith, and threaten people with dire consequences if they don't convert to their version of it, do nothing to help others in a practical way. As I have said many times, the sort of person you are is much more important than the religion you espouse.
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All too often the ones who give it large about their 'true' faith, and threaten people with dire consequences if they don't convert to their version of it, do nothing to help others in a practical way. As I have said many times, the sort of person you are is much more important than the religion you espouse.
That's very nice of you Floo you didn't have to say that about me but thanks anyway.
Regards ippy
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That's very nice of you Floo you didn't have to say that about me but thanks anyway.
Regards ippy
My pleasure. ;D
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My pleasure. ;D
Love it ;D ;D ;D
ippy
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Says one whose own posts would be highly amusing if they weren't so silly!
Do you actually have anything positive or informative to say?
Well, best not to say anything till you do.
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Funny you know Sass I look at these pages with wonder when I see how effective the indoctrination of various posters have taken upon themselves staring in the face of reality and rejecting reality.
I'm, I suppose your average Jo and manage to live a roughly normal life and feel I would like to think when I leave this world hopefully by my actions, I may have in some way left it a better place than when I entered, you see much like the majority of ordinary people.
All of the above without giving any religion a serious thought as practical solution to the worlds problems, apart from being astounded here how I read the religious utterances of otherwise sensible people, religion plays no part in my very normal family life, you could be the same as me Sass and have more time to do positive things much better than pointless things such as religious practises.
Kind regards ippy
What is more positive in a persons life than helping the homeless, the starving and the poor. My God leads me in paths which benefit others. How will your life have benefited others when you leave it? Reality is... religion is just a practice of rituals to you. In reality to me it is a way of life changed by love from a God of love who places care for others as a genuine act from the heart. I am sorry you feel as you do. I do not measure my life by such thoughts and I do not judge others by my own thoughts. Truth is that life is about making a difference because we care. Try not thinking of it as religious codes of practice. Try seeing it as a living reality in the presence of a gracious and loving God who loves all...EVEN YOU. :)
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All too often the ones who give it large about their 'true' faith, and threaten people with dire consequences if they don't convert to their version of it, do nothing to help others in a practical way. As I have said many times, the sort of person you are is much more important than the religion you espouse.
All in your head... You use it as an excuse and we see it does not work if true and you are living proof.
That kind of behaviour makes people oppressed, bitter, weak and an attacker of all things good. Calling evil good and good evil.
You never really knew the living God or the real love. The selfless love like Christs which despite everything the people did to him to make him suffer still prayed for forgiveness for those who hurt and put him to death. Love in a perfect example of forgiving others when it has cost so much. No one is perfect like Christ when it comes to faith and Love. But being hurt does not give anyone a license to hurt others.
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Do you actually have anything positive or informative to say?
Well, best not to say anything till you do.
And you do? ;D
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The big secular charitable programme the welfare state is in retreat as several excuses are and were made for its retraction. It was not ever thus.
Secular humanism in the U.K. Has taken a turn to individualistic darwinianism rather than a secular socialist societies. As far as I know there is no atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army nor any mass movement willing to move in to teach and nurse in deprived areas like the British marxists of the thirties.
It's the Darwinian appeal of the selfish gene I suppose.
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What is more positive in a persons life than helping the homeless, the starving and the poor. My God leads me in paths which benefit others. How will your life have benefited others when you leave it? Reality is... religion is just a practice of rituals to you. In reality to me it is a way of life changed by love from a God of love who places care for others as a genuine act from the heart.
Some of us manage that without all the daft baggage and accoutrements. Travel light.
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All too often the ones who give it large about their 'true' faith, and threaten people with dire consequences if they don't convert to their version of it, do nothing to help others in a practical way. As I have said many times, the sort of person you are is much more important than the religion you espouse.
I don't think the retraction of the welfare state in the face of a tide of people proclaiming their Godlessness bears your theory out at all.
It is commonly claimed that atheists are out helping when Christians are on their knees......I say that's rubbish. Atheists are ranting rather than forming big movements for social and mutual help.
The New Atheist preoccupation with religion as opposed to social charity has been noted by writers like
Karen Armstrong who has noted little interest in social charity from the four horsemen.
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The big secular charitable programme the welfare state is in retreat as several excuses are and were made for its retraction. It was not ever thus.
Secular humanism in the U.K. Has taken a turn to individualistic darwinianism rather than a secular socialist societies. As far as I know there is no atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army nor any mass movement willing to move in to teach and nurse in deprived areas like the British marxists of the thirties.
It's the Darwinian appeal of the selfish gene I suppose.
Another demonstration that you still haven't got the slightest idea of what secularism is all about ?
ippy
P S Look up Orbis, Medicine without frontiers and you can send money to the NSS UK to support the Rohingya refugees and to protect them from religious persecution.
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The big secular charitable programme the welfare state is in retreat as several excuses are and were made for its retraction. It was not ever thus.
Secular humanism in the U.K. Has taken a turn to individualistic darwinianism rather than a secular socialist societies. As far as I know there is no atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army nor any mass movement willing to move in to teach and nurse in deprived areas like the British marxists of the thirties.
It's the Darwinian appeal of the selfish gene I suppose.
If the welfare state is in retreat that can be laid squarely at the door of the Conservative and Unionist Party - you know, those who don't believe in it and never wanted such a thing in the first place - rather than your woeful misunderstanding of secularism (not to mention your Mary Midgley-level grasp of the selfish gene).
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If the welfare state is in retreat that can be laid squarely at the door of the Conservative and Unionist Party - you know, those who don't believe in it and never wanted such a thing in the first place - rather than your woeful misunderstanding of secularism
....and that people are voting for them and the people who don't vote because they don't mind the damage they cause.......one has to wonder why charity and social welfare are in retreat when there is a wave of non religious who like Floo are keen to point out the lack of charity in Christians.I suppose what we are seeing is no concomitant sense of social responsibility with an increase in non religion.
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As far as I know there is no atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army ..
...what would be the atheist equivalent of of this?
We believe in the immortality of the soul; in the resurrection of the body; in the general judgment at the end of the world; in the eternal happiness of the righteous; and in the endless punishment of the wicked.
www.salvationarmy.org.uk/salvation-army-doct
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....and that people are voting for them and the people who don't vote because they don't mind the damage they cause.......one has to wonder why charity and social welfare are in retreat
Are they? Like your alleged co-religionist "Crashes and" Burns you're asserting this rather than providing any evidence for it.
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(not to mention your Mary Midgley-level grasp of the selfish gene).
Selfish gene provided mood music for Thatcherism and New Atheist Alf Garnettism chimes with certain noises from UKIP.
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Selfish gene provided mood music for Thatcherism and New Atheist Alf Garnettism chimes with certain noises from UKIP.
I see you're in charge of the Assertatron while "Crashes and" is away.
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...what would be the atheist equivalent of of this?
We believe in the immortality of the soul; in the resurrection of the body; in the general judgment at the end of the world; in the eternal happiness of the righteous; and in the endless punishment of the wicked.
www.salvationarmy.org.uk/salvation-army-doct
We believe in determinism and the selfish phenotype, and because Darwinism is such a neat theory Then whose to say social Darwinism isn't valid
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We believe in determinism and the selfish phenotype, and because Darwinism is such a neat theory Then whose to say social Darwinism isn't valid
Bzzz. Fail. Eternal damnation not accounted for.
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Religion must be a pretty powerful thing in your consciousness for someone who believes no god exists? Why do you allow it to run your life and affect your emotions within yourself and the way you relate to others? Seems only you have the problem with religion and it is with yourself, alone.
Honestly Sassy you pontificate upon things you haven't got a clue about!
I use "Jesus wept" in the same way as an Army Sergeant Major would - as a polite euphemism - instead of saying "you are the biggest (insert expletive of your choice) on the (insert expletive of your choice) planet!
I have said before that my belief in MY GODS and GODDESSES is a matter of FAITH not FACT - and I have said on many occasions that you need to learn that YOUR God and his beknighted son are also matters of FAITH and not FACT.
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Funny you know Sass I look at these pages with wonder when I see how effective the indoctrination of various posters have taken upon themselves staring in the face of reality and rejecting reality.
I'm, I suppose your average Jo and manage to live a roughly normal life and feel I would like to think when I leave this world hopefully by my actions, I may have in some way left it a better place than when I entered, you see much like the majority of ordinary people.
All of the above without giving any religion a serious thought as practical solution to the worlds problems, apart from being astounded here how I read the religious utterances of otherwise sensible people, religion plays no part in my very normal family life, you could be the same as me Sass and have more time to do positive things much better than pointless things such as religious practises.
Kind regards ippy
I, in the firm faith that the deities with whom I and the members of my Coven communicate exist as part of our belief as a matter of faith not fact, I have no proof that they exist, I do however have faith, have absolutely no problem with someone, like yourself, who has no problem whatsoever with dismissing my faith as bollocks along with all other "religious faiths".
No problem whatsoever.
I would have a problem if you turned, for instance, "Sassy" on me and started to condemn my belief because of your conviction that yours is fact and mine fiction.
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What is more positive in a persons life than helping the homeless, the starving and the poor. My God leads me in paths which benefit others. How will your life have benefited others when you leave it? Reality is... religion is just a practice of rituals to you. In reality to me it is a way of life changed by love from a God of love who places care for others as a genuine act from the heart. I am sorry you feel as you do. I do not measure my life by such thoughts and I do not judge others by my own thoughts. Truth is that life is about making a difference because we care. Try not thinking of it as religious codes of practice. Try seeing it as a living reality in the presence of a gracious and loving God who loves all...EVEN YOU. :)
Like I said about indoctrination, no one needs to be religious to be able to help or be of benifit to our fellow man.
I can see a social side of regular meetings of friends, nothing wrong with any of that.
You give me the impression of someone much like the rest of us here on the forum, basicly decent and care about others without being over the top about it, I think you would be more or less the same person I have described without believing in the magical, mystical, superstition based beliefs bereft of any evidence that might have supported them.
I'm not judging you, but there are better things to do than wasting time on any way of life, that in your case you think it's the truth where you nor anyone else has the smallest shred of evidence that could in any way support any of the magical, mystical, superstitional based parts that the whole of these beliefs hang on.
In turn I feel sorry for you that you hang your life on such a load of bronze age ignorent nonsense, (ignorent in respect of things like not even knowing the Earth orbits the Sun).
You seem to suggest it's necessary to have a religious belief to be able to care for others and you really do think it's you that's living in reality, I'll assume you're joking.
Kind regards ippy.
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I, in the firm faith that the deities with whom I and the members of my Coven communicate exist as part of our belief as a matter of faith not fact, I have no proof that they exist, I do however have faith, have absolutely no problem with someone, like yourself, who has no problem whatsoever with dismissing my faith as bollocks along with all other "religious faiths".
No problem whatsoever.
I would have a problem if you turned, for instance, "Sassy" on me and started to condemn my belief because of your conviction that yours is fact and mine fiction.
Can't see a problem there or anything on its way either, can't see that I have any belief convictions either, if there were some kind of evidence that pointed to any of these magical mystery land beliefs I might have stood up and paid them some attention but that's unlikely to happen.
Ippy
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Can't see a problem there or anything on its way either, can't see that I have any belief convictions either, if there were some kind of evidence that pointed to any of these magical mystery land beliefs I might have stood up and paid them some attention but that's unlikely to happen.
Ippy
Yeah - but you do not insist, as some of the theists do, that I believe as you do because what I believe does not gel with what you believe!
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Bzzz. Fail. Eternal damnation not accounted for.
I don't quite know what you are getting at.
If someone hates God eternally how is that not something to be eternally condemned?
Similarly what business or purpose would a wicked person have or want in heaven?
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I don't quite know what you are getting at.
If someone hates God eternally how is that not something to be eternally condemned?
Similarly what business or purpose would a wicked person have or want in heaven?
What do you mean by "wicked person"?
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What do you mean by "wicked person"?
I've already defined that in my post.
Also if someone continues to wish harm on those in heaven why should they be allowed to do it?
If they are not allowed to inflict themselves and their desires why would they want to be in heaven?
Orthodox Christians believe all pass into the presence of God and that experience will either be heaven or hell.
What Christians never propose unlike some atheists is that the innocent are condemned.
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Your thinking seems to be a little muddled, to say the least!
In what way?
Can you quote a Christian who has ever said the innocent are condemned?
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What Christians never propose unlike some atheists is that the innocent are condemned.
According to Christianity there's no such thing as "innocent" for all (that's all) have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God* - or had you forgotten, Vladdychops?
* Romans 3:23
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According to Christianity there's no such thing as "innocent" for all (that's all) have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God - or had you forgotten, Vladdychops?
In which case no innocent people have been condemned.........but lots of people who have sinned and fallen short will get to heaven. Thanks to Jesus.
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In which case no innocent people have been condemned
Who said they have been? Oh, that's right - you did:
What Christians never propose unlike some atheists is that the innocent are condemned.
So we have ascertained that the first part of your sentence is bullshit, condemned by the very words of your book. What we didn't find out is (a) who these atheists are who are condemning innocent people and (b) what these innocent people are being condemned for. Quelle surprise.
.........but lots of people who have sinned and fallen short will get to heaven. Thanks to Jesus.
Pics or it didn't happen.
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It depends what they mean by innocent. Many of the more extreme Christians condemn non believers to burn in the 'fires of hell', however good or decent they are.
But many Christians say that people don't want God and are mutually excluded.
And others, the orthodox say that all get to heaven but some hate the experience which then becomes hell.
I realise none of that helps the cause of self pronounced innocence and denouncement of God and therefore the person doing that prefers the torture of the innocent accusation on very slender foundation.
If one can convince oneself of innocence and of God as a torturer then that is an effective God dodge.
Other views of damnation which have been and are mainstream are met with fingers in ears and the old la la la.
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If that were true, people of Hitler's ilk would go to heaven if they made a deathbed conversion, whereas an unbelievers who have done a lot of good in this world would go to hell, where is the justice in that?
I think God can effectively gate wolves in sheeps clothing trying to sneak in and savage the flock.
I should imagine in your travels you have met with lots of people who say that not all the apparently Christian will "be in that number when the saints etc".
The question is therefore are we in that number and do we want to be in that number.
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I've already defined that in my post.
Also if someone continues to wish harm on those in heaven why should they be allowed to do it?
If they are not allowed to inflict themselves and their desires why would they want to be in heaven?
Wait a minute.
How exactly will all of this 'wishing harm' and 'infliction' be carried out in a place where there is no "free will"?
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But many Christians say that people don't want God and are mutually excluded. And others, the orthodox say that all get to heaven but some hate the experience which then becomes hell.
It's almost as though there's no actual data or reliable information, and people are just pulling this stuff out of thin air...
I realise none of that helps the cause of self pronounced innocence and denouncement of God and therefore the person doing that prefers the torture of the innocent accusation on very slender foundation.
That very slender foundation of 'some Christians say' which was good enough before? Or the scriptural foundations (Revelations 21:8, Matthew 13:50 and 25:46, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Mark 9:43)
If one can convince oneself of innocence and of God as a torturer then that is an effective God dodge.
If one can deduce from the claims that there's an inherent injustice that's plainly obvious in the official doctrine of some churches, then it's not 'god-dodging' to highlight that as counter to those churches' claims of moral superiority.
Other views of damnation which have been and are mainstream are met with fingers in ears and the old la la la.
Probably because the entire concept of 'damnation' is laughable, relying as it does on the spurious and baseless notion of some 'spiritual' residue being manifested somewhere else after death.
O.
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Probably because the entire concept of 'damnation' is laughable, relying as it does on the spurious and baseless notion of some 'spiritual' residue being manifested somewhere else after death.
O.
Spiritual residue......or a set of information?
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Spiritual residue......or a set of information?
Damnation - spiritual residue. Afterlife, under some very modern arguments, set of information. Either way, it's still not based on anything evidentiary, and there's no reason to presume that it's an accurate description of reality.
O.
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Damnation - spiritual residue. Afterlife, under some very modern arguments, set of information. Either way, it's still not based on anything evidentiary, and there's no reason to presume that it's an accurate description of reality.
O.
It's still information though isn't it. The hope I suppose is that nobody is recording it.
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It's still information though isn't it. The hope I suppose is that nobody is recording it.
Is it? Certainly none of the people I've spoke to in the past have conceived of the 'soul' or 'spirit' as being 'information'. You can choose to interpret it like that, but you're moving away from classic depictions of religion and theology so much as to make the terms meaningless.
O.
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Is it? Certainly none of the people I've spoke to in the past have conceived of the 'soul' or 'spirit' as being 'information'. You can choose to interpret it like that, but you're moving away from classic depictions of religion and theology so much as to make the terms meaningless.
O.
Just ask Alan Burns. AFAIK he is arguing that the soul is merely a decision making machine. It uses information but it is not in itself, imformation.
Once it is free of its information storage facility (the brain), after we are dead, how it will function, how it will even be able to know who or what it is. Well that question get a big shrug of the shoulders followed by a sheepish "I dunno" reponse!
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Is it? Certainly none of the people I've spoke to in the past have conceived of the 'soul' or 'spirit' as being 'information'. You can choose to interpret it like that, but you're moving away from classic depictions of religion and theology so much as to make the terms meaningless.
No doubt we all have a 21st century idea of what information is but it is not final and whatever it is it will have always been that. What happens to information anyway?
As far as religion and theology are concerned they have always used the allegories and parables to do to where they find themselves so there is nothing illegitimate about speaking of cultural metaphors...besides if you are prepared to give simulated universe the time of day you know that someone is/could be watching and it could be recorded. That is also true for a religious and theological view and has been for some time therefore it seems that it's the modern which has moved toward the classic depiction.
In the biblical version of the afterlife we are actually reconstructed or resurrected in a new ''body''.
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No doubt we all have a 21st century idea of what information is but it is not final and whatever it is it will have always been that.
Information will be, but our interpretation of it won't have been. And we have a 21st century idea of 'souls' and 'spirits' as well, and they're going the way of the 21st century idea of 'sorcery'.
What happens to information anyway?
The same thing that happens to everything, eventually. Entropy.
As far as religion and theology are concerned they have always used the allegories and parables to do to where they find themselves so there is nothing illegitimate about speaking of cultural metaphors...besides if you are prepared to give simulated universe the time of day you know that someone is/could be watching and it could be recorded.
That's been the case since long before I was born with the possibility that we were just a farm for aliens.
That is also true for a religious and theological view and has been for some time therefore it seems that it's the modern which has moved toward the classic depiction.
No, the modern view has come up with something superficially similar, and religion in a desperate quest for validity has glommed onto it and claimed 'that's what we meant all along'.
In the biblical version of the afterlife we are actually reconstructed or resurrected in a new ''body''.
Right. In the Biblical version there was a worldwide flood and a six thousand year old Earth and rain came from windows in the sky and grasshoppers only had four legs and whales were fish and there was only one god except when there other gods, and... You can selectively reinterpret as many elements of the vaguely worded scripture as you'd like, it still doesn't make a difference to the fundamental underlying truth: religion is about accepting the validity of the claim that there is some external source of absolute morality to whom we owe some sort of obeisance for the very fact of our existence, and that's a morally dubious case in and of itself, even if it could be demonstrated that there were a creator of any sort, let alone an absolutely moral one, which is a claim that doesn't fit with the reality that we see.
O.
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Information will be, but our interpretation of it won't have been. And we have a 21st century idea of 'souls' and 'spirits' as well, and they're going the way of the 21st century idea of 'sorcery'.
The same thing that happens to everything, eventually. Entropy.
That's been the case since long before I was born with the possibility that we were just a farm for aliens.
No, the modern view has come up with something superficially similar, and religion in a desperate quest for validity has glommed onto it and claimed 'that's what we meant all along'.
Right. In the Biblical version there was a worldwide flood and a six thousand year old Earth and rain came from windows in the sky and grasshoppers only had four legs and whales were fish and there was only one god except when there other gods, and... You can selectively reinterpret as many elements of the vaguely worded scripture as you'd like, it still doesn't make a difference to the fundamental underlying truth: religion is about accepting the validity of the claim that there is some external source of absolute morality to whom we owe some sort of obeisance for the very fact of our existence, and that's a morally dubious case in and of itself, even if it could be demonstrated that there were a creator of any sort, let alone an absolutely moral one, which is a claim that doesn't fit with the reality that we see.
O.
First I have to take you to task about a classic religious view being unrelated to information. After all How does John's Gospel start?
Secondly, Somebody had to eventually claim in the face of simulated universes that that is the novel idea and religion is trying to get onto the bandwagon. Just like what happened with the universe having a beginning, or as Augustine suggested the universe was created with time rather in time. Your thinking here, Outrider, is like saying of course the Bee Gees version of Tragedy is not as good as the Steps original.
Trying to squeeze an opponent, me, into a biblical literalist box is a shockingly desperate strategy that until you came along people have been intelligent enough not to do it. It doesn't cut much ice with me.
Didn't get the farm for aliens bit, but Jesus does make a lot of references to sheep and flocks.
This interested me though
religion is about accepting the validity of the claim that there is some external source of absolute morality to whom we owe some sort of obeisance for the very fact of our existence, and that's a morally dubious case in and of itself
What moral authority allows you to claim moral dubiousness?
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First I have to take you to task about a classic religious view being unrelated to information. After all How does John's Gospel start?
The English translation 'the word' is a poetic reference to a concept that doesn't have a direct English equivalent - it could just as easily have been translated as 'The Voice'.
Secondly, Somebody had to eventually claim in the face of simulated universes that that is the novel idea and religion is trying to get onto the bandwagon.
Because eventually the truth will out?
Just like what happened with the universe having a beginning, or as Augustine suggested the universe was created with time rather in time.
If you have enough people making up enough stuff far enough in advance, some of them are accidently going to get superficially close to something correct - you know, infinite monkeys and infinite typewriters and all that.
Your thinking here, Outrider, is like saying of course the Bee Gees version of Tragedy is not as good as the Steps original.
As someone who doesn't do religion, that's damnably close to sacrilege, you realise...
Trying to squeeze an opponent, me, into a biblical literalist box is a shockingly desperate strategy that until you came along people have been intelligent enough not to do it. It doesn't cut much ice with me.
I'm not trying to push anyone into any boxes, I'm simply pointing out that as you move further and further away from the 'classic' depiction of god and religion you increasingly get something that has no practical purpose or meaning.
Didn't get the farm for aliens bit, but Jesus does make a lot of references to sheep and flocks
Amongst the many interpretations of the panspermia idea of the origin of life on Earth was one that surmised that we'd been tended like farm animals by aliens for their own purposes - like the simulated universe concept, it replaces god as a 'creator' (in the short term, but not ultimately), but it doesn't make the alien/programmer any sort of corollary for a god, the god concept is something beyond simply an engineer.
religion is about accepting the validity of the claim that there is some external source of absolute morality to whom we owe some sort of obeisance for the very fact of our existence, and that's a morally dubious case in and of itself
What moral authority allows you to claim moral dubiousness?
The same one anyone else has, that ultimately we have no other recourse than to justify to ourselves what we think is right. I try to work on the 'least harm' principle, personally, though I'm in the deontological rather than consequentialist camp.
O.
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If you have enough people making up enough stuff far enough in advance, some of them are accidently going to get superficially close to something correct - you know, infinite monkeys and infinite typewriters and all that.
And I suppose Augustine did it all without any thought whatsoever?
i'll leave you to clean up ''Whaaa, he was just a thick Bronze age goat shagging christian Carthaginian twat anyway''.
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And I suppose Augustine did it all done without any thought whatsoever?
He was guessing, or extrapolating on earlier guesses, with no data to work from. He managed to maybe get one thing sort of right, so long as you don't look too deeply at the detail of his claim. I'm not saying he wasn't thinking, I'm saying he wasn't nearly critical enough of his sources, but that's largely a function of the society in which he was operating.
i'll leave you to clean up ''Whaaa, he was just a thick Bronze age goat shagging christian Carthaginian twat anyway''.
That doesn't need cleaning up, that works quite nicely on its own. I might have phrased it a little more decorously - in this conversation, in others I've been equally blunt - but the underlying meaning remains the same. Newton saw far, as he put it, because he stood on the shoulders of giants; those giants stood on the shoulders of midgets, and those midgets were being dragged back and down by the pygmies around them.
O.
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like the simulated universe concept, it replaces god as a 'creator' (in the short term, but not ultimately), but it doesn't make the alien/programmer any sort of corollary for a god, the god concept is something beyond simply an engineer.
We don't know it replaces God at all. After all a simulated universe suggests an intelligent designer responsible for the universe, who is not dependent on it or part of it.
At worst Chucking words like engineer, alien, programmer in the fashion you are can only really be a form of hypnosis illegitimately trying to control our thoughts about what that intelligent designer must be like. At best it must be poor incomplete analogy. Following your logic, artists become colour programmers, texture aliens and paint engineers.
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He was guessing, or extrapolating on earlier guesses, with no data to work from.
And that's a good thing in a simulated universe proponent but an EEEEEVVVVIIILLLLL dark skidmark on moral decency when done by a philosopher.
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We don't know it replaces God at all. After all a simulated universe suggests an intelligent designer responsible for the universe, who is not dependent on it or part of it.
And I'm responsible for my chicken sandwich, but that doesn't make me 'god' to the bacteria within it. If you want to reduce 'god' to being nothing more than the engineer that's fine, but I'd question whether that just renders the term meaningless.
At worst Chucking words like engineer, alien, programmer in the fashion you are can only really be a form of hypnosis illegitimately trying to control our thoughts about what that intelligent designer must be like.
I'm explaining that there is a difference between making a simulation for beings to live in, and being god. Conceivably, a human could create a simulation in which there were conscious programme elements interacting, but that person would not be 'god' - they'd have a high degree of power and influence within that universe, but I still contend that doesn't make them 'god', unless you accept that a god is not inherently good or moral or right, but is merely a cosmic tyrant with unchecked power.
At best it must be poor incomplete analogy. Following your logic, artists become colour programmers, texture aliens and paint engineers.
You can make a pretty simulation, and be an artist and engineer, but that's still short of 'god', isn't it?
O.
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And that's a good thing in a simulated universe proponent but an EEEEEVVVVIIILLLLL dark skidmark on moral decency when done by a philosopher.
If you're claiming that your simulated universe concept is an hypothesis awaiting data to confirm or refute it, no, then it's just conjecture. If you're Elon Musk deducing probabilities and claiming that it's probably true, then you've stepped away from science and pushed your philosophy past the point where it can be supported. Like Aquinas did. Whether Aquinas should have known better is questionable; Musk certainly should.
O.
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And I'm responsible for my chicken sandwich,
A fine example of the Peter principle.
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A fine example of the Peter principle.
As a chef I'm more of an example of Dilbert's Principle.
O.
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I'm explaining that there is a difference between making a simulation for beings to live in, and being god. Conceivably, a human could create a simulation in which there were conscious programme elements interacting, but that person would not be 'god' - they'd have a high degree of power and influence within that universe, but I still contend that doesn't make them 'god', unless you accept that a god is not inherently good or moral or right, but is merely a cosmic tyrant with unchecked power.
I think you are forgetting that the intelligent designer is not of the universe it designs. It could have any power and influence it allows itself and devolve any powers to it's creation and here we have touched upon another issue where theology has been active long before Messrs B Greene and NDG Tyson.
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I think you are forgetting that the intelligent designer is not of the universe it designs. It could have any power and influence it allows itself and devolve any powers to it's creation and here we have touched upon another issue where theology has been active long before Messrs B Greene and NDG Tyson.
No, that's fine, I'll concede that quite happily. You still don't seem to be addressing the idea that this is depicting god as 'nothing more' than a highly competent engineer. If that's the case then fine, we have no argument, because there's nothing in being an engineer that requires worship or acceptance of otherwise aribitrary moral requirements, and no obligation to obey rules or whims imposed from outside with no more less moral substance than anyone else's.
O.
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I think you are forgetting that the intelligent designer is not of the universe it designs. It could have any power and influence it allows itself and devolve any powers to it's creation and here we have touched upon another issue where theology has been active long before Messrs B Greene and NDG Tyson.
I note in this post of yours you say, 'It could have any power and influence it allows itself', can you tell all of us how you came to know this as a fact.
Try, I know it's difficult for you but see if you can find a way to give an answer without changing the subject in some way Vlad, because I can't see there is any way you could possibly know this, (the underlined part above), to be a fact?
Kindest regards ippy
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I note in this post of yours you say, 'It could have any power and influence it allows itself', can you tell all of us how you came to know this as a fact.
Try, I know it's difficult for you but see if you can find a way to give an answer without changing the subject in some way Vlad, because I can't see there is any way you could possibly know this, (the underlined part above), to be a fact?
Kindest regards ippy
Did I ever say THIS IS A FACT? I might believe it's a fact and there are some dull and boring things which I can demonstrate are facts but I have always been of the opinion that any world view cannot be so demonstrated.
I think i've also voiced my opinion that anyone caught trying pulling down someone elses worldview is ok as long as they then don't try and claim that they don't have one themselves.
Now Outrider and I are currently chewing the fat over simulated universes. Now whether that is a scientific fact or even a scientific hypothesis I am not sure but even the programmer of a simple programmer can determine the amount of rules/degrees of freedom which apply to the characters in the programme and that is what I mean by choosing the amount of power one has over the simulation.
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No, that's fine, I'll concede that quite happily. You still don't seem to be addressing the idea that this is depicting god as 'nothing more' than a highly competent engineer.
I disagree as I keep saying God fits what a simulated universe designer has to be in relation to the universe it has designed and built. Beyond that, 'simulated universe' cannot say anything about the designer. No one can offer a either a ''nothing more'' nor a ''more than'' with scientific certainty.
I find your notion that religion doesn't or shouldn't describe it's deity/deities in glowing human metaphor most strange.
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Did I ever say THIS IS A FACT? I might believe it's a fact and there are some dull and boring things which I can demonstrate are facts but I have always been of the opinion that any world view cannot be so demonstrated.
I think i've also voiced my opinion that anyone caught trying pulling down someone elses worldview is ok as long as they then don't try and claim that they don't have one themselves.
Now Outrider and I are currently chewing the fat over simulated universes. Now whether that is a scientific fact or even a scientific hypothesis I am not sure but even the programmer of a simple programmer can determine the amount of rules/degrees of freedom which apply to the characters in the programme and that is what I mean by choosing the amount of power one has over the simulation.
I should have known better you always find a way to never answer anything, by the way do you think you're getting any closer to fully understanding secularism yet,? Oh yes, I almost forgot, you don't answer anything anyone asks you, so don't worry Vlad.
The kindest possible of regards ippy.
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I disagree as I keep saying God fits what a simulated universe designer has to be in relation to the universe it has designed and built. Beyond that, 'simulated universe' cannot say anything about the designer. No one can offer a either a ''nothing more'' nor a ''more than'' with scientific certainty.
True, but that depiction does not equate to 'god', it equates to a designer, a mechanic, an engineer.
I find your notion that religion doesn't or shouldn't describe it's deity/deities in glowing human metaphor most strange.
My point is that religions do describe them in 'glowing' human metaphor, they are always depicted as something more than human not just quantitatively, but qualitatively. This computer programmer - advanced programming though it is - is not intrinsically something beyond a possible human potential.
O.
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True, but that depiction does not equate to 'god', it equates to a designer, a mechanic, an engineer.
My point is that religions do describe them in 'glowing' human metaphor, they are always depicted as something more than human not just quantitatively, but qualitatively. This computer programmer - advanced programming though it is - is not intrinsically something beyond a possible human potential.
O.
Maker, that's another epithet for almighty God of old, Great Architect of the universe is another.
Man is made in God's image says.....co creator is a theological epithet for mankind. That a human can simulate what ''The maker'' does is no strange idea for religion. You seem to be revising the past in an act of heavy duty God avoidance.
The fact remains an intelligent designer who makes a universe of which they are not dependent on is a familiar trope in religion and has been for centuries.
There is also the problem of allowing the ability of universal transcendence in a simulator and then disallowing it in a simulator with the label God through a massive act of special pleading.
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Maker, that's another epithet for almighty God of old, Great Architect of the universe is another. Man is made in God's image says.....co creator is a theological epithet for mankind. That a human can simulate what ''The maker'' does is no strange idea for religion. You seem to be revising the past in an act of heavy duty God avoidance.
You seem to be pretending that Christianity makes no claim about god other than that he is a cosmic watchmaker...
The fact remains an intelligent designer who makes a universe of which they are not dependent on is a familiar trope in religion and has been for centuries.
Yes; it's not, though, the whole of the religious trope, is it?
There is also the problem of allowing the ability of universal transcendence in a simulator and then disallowing it in a simulator with the label God through a massive act of special pleading.
You'll have to explain what you're aiming at with 'universal transcendence' there.
O.
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You seem to be pretending that Christianity makes no claim about god other than that he is a cosmic watchmaker...
No I just said there are aspects of the simulator which God fulfils. Simulation theory tells us very little more about the simulator. Bostrom talks about windows etc.
You seem to be pretending that God has never been described in religion and theology as an intelligent designer who makes a universe from which he his separate and entirely independent. The simulator can never be less than that description which is also a theological description but it/he/she/ they could be more.
What we are IMHO seeing then is you shuffling with the the goal posts. Is this in an attempt to eliminate God from access to the characteristics of a universe creator which has to be the Fred and Ginger, Busby Berkeley of God avoidance by claiming that God is somehow overqualified.
Other contributers seem to want to go the other way and have us believe that the creator is somekind of teenage dirtbag. Suggesting that any fool can create a universe like the one we've got.
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More like a psychopath, if it exists, and what is attributed to it were true.
You need to take that up with Him.
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I would, but sadly it is in hiding.
Or you are.
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Or you are.
No god-dodging again, Vladster?
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No I just said there are aspects of the simulator which God fulfils. Simulation theory tells us very little more about the simulator. Bostrom talks about windows etc.
The description of a simulator, I'd say, lies within the common understanding of the Christian God, but only constitutes a part of it.
You seem to be pretending that God has never been described in religion and theology as an intelligent designer who makes a universe from which he his separate and entirely independent. The simulator can never be less than that description which is also a theological description but it/he/she/ they could be more.
I'm not pretending anything of the sort, I've conceded that point repeatedly - I'm observing that to equate the two is to distinctly undersell the common understanding of 'God'.
What we are IMHO seeing then is you shuffling with the the goal posts.
And now you're pretending that you're humble, which is frankly even less believable :) I've not moved any goal-posts at all, I've accepted the designer concept from the start as a part of the simulated universe hypothesis, I've just not accepted the implicit equivalence with the claim 'God'.
Is this in an attempt to eliminate God from access to the characteristics of a universe creator which has to be the Fred and Ginger, Busby Berkeley of God avoidance by claiming that God is somehow overqualified.
No, it's making the point that even if the simulated universe hypothesis were to be in some way validated or, for the sake of argument, accepted in principle, it still wouldn't be any sort of evidence for the Christian depiction of 'God'.
Other contributers seem to want to go the other way and have us believe that the creator is somekind of teenage dirtbag. Suggesting that any fool can create a universe like the one we've got.
Arguably, with the right digital tool-kit, any douche-bag could; that's, in part, why it's such an inadequate device with which to attempt to establish 'God'.
O.
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http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/end-of-world-still-coming-soon-christian-numerologists-say-it-was-just-postponed/ar-AAsqa7C?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartandhp
The end of the world has been postponed until October 21st! ;D
Are we all still here, Floo.or is this a nightmare dream?
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October 21st has been and gone, and we are all still here. I wonder what excuse those who believe in that daft nonsense will come up with this time for getting the date wrong? It is a pity NM isn't around so we can quiz him about it. ::)
I think he must have run out of Dynamic Energy from his last encounter with the forum Floo, I'd like to see him back, he would be good company for our A B but Alan's no where near as rightious as N M.
Regards ippy
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Perhaps Jesus hasn't got to the appropriate page in his Righteous Science textbook.
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Of course.
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We are nearly into December and we are still here in spite of the dire predictions of end timers like NM! ;D
in their favour, one day they will be right ;D
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in their favour, one day they will be right ;D
You have proof of this, of course.
It is far more likely mankind will end but the planet will go on without us.
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You have proof of this, of course.
It is far more likely mankind will end but the planet will go on without us.
No. At some point in the future Earth will no longer exist .
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Probably, but not the sort of demise the end timers just love to predict.
and their 'predictions' are far more entertaining :D
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Not if you are a child or vulnerable person. >:(
Since when did the Christians worry about such as they when it came to predictions of Godly punishment?
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There is so many posts containing out-of-date terminology and false beliefs about Christians today and even Christians after Christ died.
Is it too much to ask that atheists actually read the bible?
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Does it really need spelling out why the world did not end in October or why people should not have given any credence to the
person/s or the claim/s when made?
There is no logical way, given the evidence that the end of the world not coming can actually reflect badly on Christ or Christianity whatsoever.
This is why so many Christians tell atheists to study - up or shut-up.
We are not trying to be rude but it gets boring listening to the same old clap-trap spouted and written because the explanation why it did not happen is written in the bible.
At least educate yourselves on subjects before passing judgment in ignorance. Atheism has nothing to study.
Take for instance the things discussed the last two pages about the end of the world.
You can take the subject and google to get at least some idea. Come on folks how many years ago did Christ tell everyone only the father knew the day of his return?
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You don't need to read the bible to give no credence to the claims being made.
Most people don't judge all Christians by the end of the world claims made by the few.
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Sass it is some people who claim to CHRISTIANS who have been giving it large about the end times being imminent!
Come on, Floo! This is Christianity we are talking about here and you must know by now that Sassy is the ultimate Chritianity geek and can NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, be wrong!
This even tho' she seems to interpret the "revealed word of God"in whatever way she sees fit to make it say what she wants it to say regardless of the linguistic tricks and bullshine she needs to use to achieve her ends.
Just like every other Christian since AD1 day One!
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Come on, Floo! This is Christianity we are talking about here and you must know by now that Sassy is the ultimate Chritianity geek and can NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, be wrong!
This even tho' she seems to interpret the "revealed word of God"in whatever way she sees fit to make it say what she wants it to say regardless of the linguistic tricks and bullshine she needs to use to achieve her ends.
Just like every other Christian since AD1 day One!
Is it ponytailed, and angry in here or is it just me?
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Is it ponytailed, and angry in here or is it just me?
Depends where you look.
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Is it ponytailed, and angry in here or is it just me?
Neither ponytailed nor angry; just fed up with the pathetic attempts to prove that the Bible contains even one single word of truth.
It hasn't been achieved in 2017 years so I can't see it happening any time soon despite the best (worst?) erfforts of the Christians here.
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Come on, Floo! This is Christianity we are talking about here and you must know by now that Sassy is the ultimate Chritianity geek and can NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, be wrong!
This even tho' she seems to interpret the "revealed word of God"in whatever way she sees fit to make it say what she wants it to say regardless of the linguistic tricks and bullshine she needs to use to achieve her ends.
Just like every other Christian since AD1 day One!
I find it ironic that someone with strange beliefs can criticise another with strange beliefs.
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Spot on, great minds and all that!
If you dish it out you have to be able to take it.
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I find it ironic that someone with strange beliefs can criticise another with strange beliefs.
A big hello to the tu quoque.
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Porn again ::).
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Porn again ::).
Fallacies all over the place.
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Took the word out of my mouth!
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Porn again ::).
I'm a porn again Christian !
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I find it ironic that someone with strange beliefs can criticise another with strange beliefs.
You might like to review your ownership of the meaning of strange given the stats Walter
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations
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Don't be so serious 'andles (in any case all beliefs seem 'strange' to a non-believer regardless of their popularity).
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You might like to review your ownership of the meaning of strange given the stats Walter
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations
No thanks
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Don't be so serious 'andles (in any case all beliefs seem 'strange' to a non-believer regardless of their popularity).
Robbie, you're just one god away from atheism ;)
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That's fine, I don't need more than one, Walter.
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A big hello to the tu quoque.
To the tu quoque or to its latest exponent?