Religion and Ethics Forum

Religion and Ethics Discussion => Philosophy, in all its guises. => Topic started by: floo on October 23, 2017, 01:23:18 PM

Title: Money or integrity?
Post by: floo on October 23, 2017, 01:23:18 PM
If you were offered a great deal of money to do something, which went against your moral integrity would you accept or refuse it?

I would definitely refuse it.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2017, 01:31:00 PM
If you were offered a great deal of money to do something, which went against your moral integrity would you accept or refuse it?

I would definitely refuse it.

Surely it depends on your circumstances? If you were starving and your child would die, if you didn't accept the money?
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: floo on October 23, 2017, 01:35:47 PM
Surely it depends on your circumstances? If you were starving and your child would die, if you didn't accept the money?

Even then I think I would have to refuse it, but of course not being in that situation I can't say for sure.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Gordon on October 23, 2017, 01:36:29 PM
If you were offered a great deal of money to do something, which went against your moral integrity would you accept or refuse it?

I would definitely refuse it.

Depends on what was asked of you and what your situation is: sounds like you're asking about Consequentialism vs Deontology.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2017, 01:43:31 PM
Even then I think I would have to refuse it, but of course not being in that situation I can't say for sure.
So your morals do not include saving your child from death? Morality is surely a balance of things, not s single absolute question?
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Steve H on October 23, 2017, 01:43:49 PM
Depends on the seriousness of the moral trangression I was being asked to perform.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Steve H on October 23, 2017, 01:44:32 PM
Depends on what was asked of you and what your situation is: sounds like you're asking about Consequentialism vs Deontology.
Show-off.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Walter on October 23, 2017, 01:58:15 PM
If you were offered a great deal of money to do something, which went against your moral integrity would you accept or refuse it?

I would definitely refuse it.
short of killing someone ,heights , and the ability to get away with it , show me the money .
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: floo on October 23, 2017, 02:01:07 PM
So your morals do not include saving your child from death? Morality is surely a balance of things, not s single absolute question?

I would not save myself or my child from death if it meant me doing something heinous like murdering someone or human trafficking, for instance.

I wasn't thinking of extreme circumstances when I composed my OP, although I should have guessed someone would have thrown that into the pot. ::)

So being more specific, if for instance, you were asked to lie, or take part in a scam in order to earn a very large sum of money would you do so? I wouldn't.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Walter on October 23, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
oh! and a TV advert for Go compare , I wouldn't do that . ;)
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Walter on October 23, 2017, 02:04:11 PM
I would not save myself or my child from death if it meant me doing something heinous like murdering someone or human trafficking, for instance.

I wasn't thinking of extreme circumstances when I composed my OP, although I should have guessed someone would have thrown that into the pot. ::)

So being more specific, if for instance, you were asked to lie, or take part in a scam in order to earn a very large sum of money would you do so? I wouldn't.
Floo, I'm glad I'm not one of your children.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2017, 02:04:43 PM
I would not save myself or my child from death if it meant me doing something heinous like murdering someone or human trafficking, for instance.

I wasn't thinking of extreme circumstances when I composed my OP, although I should have guessed someone would have thrown that into the pot. ::)

So being more specific, if for instance, you were asked to lie, or take part in a scam in order to earn a very large sum of money would you do so? I wouldn't.
Isn't letting your child die when you could save it, heinous?

Ad to your question, say Anne Frank was in the attic and someone offered you money not to tell the Nazis where she was, are you saying you would still tell them she was upstairs?
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: floo on October 23, 2017, 02:10:10 PM
Isn't letting your child die when you could save it, heinous?

Ad to your question, say Anne Frank was in the attic and someone offered you money not to tell the Nazis where she was, are you saying you would still tell them she was upstairs?

So are you saying you would kill someone else to save your child?

I wouldn't have let on to the Nazis that Anne Frank was in my attic, I certainly wouldn't have taken any money for doing so.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Shaker on October 23, 2017, 02:14:49 PM
So are you saying you would kill someone else to save your child?
A great many parents say that (not a few have done it), and I'm more than a little suspicious of those who aver otherwise.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2017, 02:25:17 PM
So are you saying you would kill someone else to save your child?

I wouldn't have let on to the Nazis that Anne Frank was in my attic, I certainly wouldn't have taken any money for doing so.
So you would have lied to save someone else's child but not your own? Odd!

And where did I say that I would kill someone?
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: floo on October 23, 2017, 02:40:41 PM
So you would have lied to save someone else's child but not your own? Odd!

And where did I say that I would kill someone?


I didn't say I would lie for Anne Frank. I   said I wouldn't tell the Nazis where she was, but if I had to lie, in those extreme circumstances that would be the right thing to do as the Nazis were evil scum.

Killing an innocent person  to save my own child would be heinous.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Enki on October 23, 2017, 02:46:53 PM
At sometime in the 1980s, when football pools were still popular, we had a pools syndicate in the staffroom(I was a teacher). All the members were men. Two of the female staff wanted to join but the person running it said that they weren't welcome. I objected to this, and when the women started their own syndicate instead, I decided to join them rather than be with the all male syndicate. About 3 weeks later, the men's syndicate had a win, which amounted to about £800 per person. I was the butt of quite a few jokes following that win. :)  Looking back on it, I don't feel any resentment, just a humorous episode in my life, and I don't regret what I did at all, even though I lost out on a considerable amount of money. Mind you, it has crossed my mind that if there is some sort of a god, he was definitely misogynistic. ;)
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: floo on October 23, 2017, 02:52:44 PM
At sometime in the 1980s, when football pools were still popular, we had a pools syndicate in the staffroom(I was a teacher). All the members were men. Two of the female staff wanted to join but the person running it said that they weren't welcome. I objected to this, and when the women started their own syndicate instead, I decided to join them rather than be with the all male syndicate. About 3 weeks later, the men's syndicate had a win, which amounted to about £800 per person. I was the butt of quite a few jokes following that win. :)  Looking back on it, I don't feel any resentment, just a humorous episode in my life, and I don't regret what I did at all, even though I lost out on a considerable amount of money. Mind you, it has crossed my mind that if there is some sort of a god, he was definitely misogynistic. ;)

Whilst I don't approve of gambling, you did the right thing, by standing up for your principles.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2017, 02:55:31 PM

I didn't say I would lie for Anne Frank. I   said I wouldn't tell the Nazis where she was, but if I had to lie, in those extreme circumstances that would be the right thing to do as the Nazis were evil scum.

Killing an innocent person  to save my own child would be heinous.
So you believe in lying under certain circumstances.

And who said anything about killing again? Surely allowing your child to die for, say you not stealing bread, which is a lie,  is heinous?
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2017, 02:56:52 PM
Whilst I don't approve of gambling, you did the right thing, by standing up for your principles.
So is the right thing standing by your principles? So if your principles were to make money, it would be right to stand by them?
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: floo on October 23, 2017, 02:58:51 PM
So you believe in lying under certain circumstances.

And who said anything about killing again? Surely allowing your child to die for, say you not stealing bread, which is a lie,  is heinous?

I thought you implied killing, if I misread your post I apologise.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: floo on October 23, 2017, 02:59:43 PM
So is the right thing standing by your principles? So if your principles were to make money, it would be right to stand by them?

PEDANT! ::)
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2017, 03:02:01 PM
I thought you implied killing, if I misread your post I apologise.

You mean when I wrote

'Isn't letting your child die when you could save it, heinous?' Don't see how.

BUT if the choice was save my child or someone else died? Save my child!!!! In an instant.


If the choice is as above why would you condemn an innocent, your child, to death?
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2017, 03:03:37 PM
PEDANT! ::)

No, pointing out that you are stating something illogical isn't pedantry. Pointing out you misspelled something would be.  ;)
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Shaker on October 23, 2017, 03:04:43 PM
I give you two great thinkers on the subject:

"Morals? Can't afford 'em, guvnor." - George Bernard Shaw

"A conscience is nice, but business is business." - Derek Edward Trotter.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Walter on October 23, 2017, 03:10:40 PM
No, pointing out that you are stating something illogical isn't pedantry. Pointing out you misspelled something would be.  ;)
I used to have a lovely pedant, wore it round my neck for years until someone offered me a lot of money for it .
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: floo on October 23, 2017, 03:56:53 PM
You mean when I wrote

'Isn't letting your child die when you could save it, heinous?' Don't see how.

BUT if the choice was save my child or someone else died? Save my child!!!! In an instant.


If the choice is as above why would you condemn an innocent, your child, to death?

As I have said before it depends what I would have to do to save my child, if it meant killing an innocent person, no way!
Title: Re: Money or integrity?
Post by: Robbie on October 23, 2017, 04:05:41 PM
If you were offered a great deal of money to do something, which went against your moral integrity would you accept or refuse it?

I would definitely refuse it.

Would depend what it was, how serious I considered the issue to be.  There are issues on which I would not compromise, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do anything that would hurt someone else for example. but others with grey areas.  So who knows?  As NS said a lot would depend on personal circumstances as well.  As things are I don't need money, it would be different if I did.  Principles can go out of the window if you're poor.
Title: Re: Money or integrity?
Post by: Walter on October 23, 2017, 04:50:22 PM
Would depend what it was, how serious I considered the issue to be.  There are issues on which I would not compromise, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do anything that would hurt someone else for example. but others with grey areas.  So who knows?  As NS said a lot would depend on personal circumstances as well.  As things are I don't need money, it would be different if I did.  Principles can go out of the window if you're poor.
and poor principles can come in through the window if you're rich
Title: Re: Money or integrity?
Post by: Robbie on October 23, 2017, 05:02:34 PM
Indeed they can, no-one is exempt.
Would that we were all moderately comfortable and content. Temptations could still creep in through the cracks though not necessarily financial.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Sebastian Toe on October 23, 2017, 05:08:11 PM
short of killing someone ,heights , and the ability to get away with it , show me the money .
If someone offers me a fortune to push you off a very tall building when nobody is looking, I'm in!  ;)
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Robbie on October 23, 2017, 05:13:00 PM
So being more specific, if for instance, you were asked to lie, or take part in a scam in order to earn a very large sum of money would you do so? I wouldn't.

I guessed you meant something along those lines - not lying to save someone's life, we'd all do that at a push. 

Agree, I wouldn't scam but I don't need a large sum of money. I can understand the temptation for someone in a desperate financial situation, especially if the scam was relatively moderate and wouldn't cause others to be impoverished (just inconvenienced). I'm being fanciful there but there must be 'small' scams.  No-one has asked me to take part in one and are not likely to anyway but I would have no interest. If I did I'd get caught, end up in jail, ruined, everything lost......not worth it, apart from moral considerations.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: floo on October 23, 2017, 05:14:03 PM
If someone offers me a fortune to push you off a very tall building when nobody is looking, I'm in!  ;)

There is always an exception to every rule, even mine, but I wouldn't need to be paid! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Money or integrity?
Post by: SweetPea on October 23, 2017, 08:11:58 PM
If you were offered a great deal of money to do something, which went against your moral integrity would you accept or refuse it?

I would definitely refuse it.

Floo, I think I know what this is about..... and just for the record, I think you did the right thing.
Title: Re: Money or intergrity?
Post by: Walter on October 23, 2017, 08:50:07 PM
There is always an exception to every rule, even mine, but I wouldn't need to be paid! ;D ;D ;D ;D
and finally your true colours are revealed !
The grinning faces hide nothing
Title: Re: Money or integrity?
Post by: Robbie on October 23, 2017, 09:06:45 PM
Sad to end up that way, Walter. Not only expendable but cheap  ;D.
Title: Re: Money or integrity?
Post by: Walter on October 23, 2017, 09:40:34 PM
Sad to end up that way, Walter. Not only expendable but cheap  ;D.
it would appear so , ah well ! 😢
Title: Re: Money or integrity?
Post by: Robbie on October 23, 2017, 09:54:55 PM
Not really, they don't mean it.
Title: Re: Money or integrity?
Post by: BeRational on October 23, 2017, 10:31:31 PM
If you were offered a great deal of money to do something, which went against your moral integrity would you accept or refuse it?

I would definitely refuse it.

Depends how bad it was and how much money was on offer, and if I would get away with it.

Gimme some details.
Title: Re: Money or integrity?
Post by: Walter on October 23, 2017, 10:56:05 PM
Not really, they don't mean it.
you're too kind and I think they do .
Title: Re: Money or integrity?
Post by: floo on October 24, 2017, 08:22:51 AM
Depends how bad it was and how much money was on offer, and if I would get away with it.

Gimme some details.

I hope you are joking! :o
Title: Re: Money or integrity?
Post by: SwordOfTheSpirit on October 31, 2017, 07:12:52 PM
If you were offered a great deal of money to do something, which went against your moral integrity would you accept or refuse it?

I would definitely refuse it.
As John Cleese once said, "This is a historic moment"

I agree 100% with your stance!