Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Humph Warden Bennett on November 03, 2017, 02:10:22 PM

Title: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on November 03, 2017, 02:10:22 PM
I know that we have done this before, but this time it is being debated in Parliament:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/voting-age-lower-16-sixteen-mp-debate-commons-change-law-a8035191.html
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: floo on November 03, 2017, 02:17:05 PM
I think it should stay at 18 when one is considered an adult.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 03, 2017, 02:17:41 PM
I think it should stay at 18 when one is considered an adult.
circular argument.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Sebastian Toe on November 03, 2017, 02:24:02 PM
I think it should stay at 18 when one is considered an adult.
No taxation without representation!
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on November 03, 2017, 02:34:22 PM
No taxation without representation!

I think that way too.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: floo on November 03, 2017, 02:43:00 PM
Are many 16 year olds capable of making a sensible decision about politics, when their hormones are raging? It is hard enough at 18, imo.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 03, 2017, 02:45:59 PM
Are many 16 year olds capable of making a sensible decision about politics, when their hormones are raging? It is hard enough at 18, imo.
  I find shockingly hard at the age of 192!!! We allow 16 year olds to join the army, marry, fuck, and work. Voting seems the least the those.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Anchorman on November 03, 2017, 02:50:38 PM
I think it should stay at 18 when one is considered an adult.


In more civilised areas - Scot;and, for example, we think otherwise.
I take it you now think that 16-18 year olds should not pay taxes, join the forces, etc, as well?
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on November 03, 2017, 02:51:57 PM
Are many 16 year olds capable of making a sensible decision about politics, when their hormones are raging? It is hard enough at 18, imo.
There should be an upper age for voting.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: floo on November 03, 2017, 02:59:38 PM
There should be an upper age for voting.

Like 192. ;D
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on November 03, 2017, 03:00:22 PM
  I find shockingly hard at the age of 192!!! We allow 16 year olds to join the army, marry, fuck, and work. Voting seems the least the those.

If you are 192 then you are old enough to remember the last time that the Tories lost where I live!
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Walter on November 04, 2017, 05:07:12 AM
There should be an upper age for voting.
there should be an upper age limit FULL STOP !
63and3/4 is ideal 😱
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Harrowby Hall on November 04, 2017, 07:58:13 AM
My main concern is that in recent times enfranchised young people have tended to show a considerable reluctance to exercise their vote.

My assumption is that they perceive the practice of politics ignores their particular interests and see no point in taking part in any "democratic" process. Jeremy Corbyn's successful seizure of the leadership of the Labour Party appears to be partially the result in tapping into this perception.

I think that Floo's categorisation of 16 and 17 year-olds as being distracted by "raging hormones" is not really accurate. The worst excesses of puberty are over by this age, and most are engaged in deciding what kind of adult life they want - even if it only at the level of what form tertiary education should take. And the consequence of large scale debt arising from simply continuing their education was a decision they had had no say in.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: floo on November 04, 2017, 08:33:32 AM
If the voting age was lowered to 16, I wonder how many would actually bother to vote? Apparently it is hard to get the under 40s to vote in any great numbers, so I have heard.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Anchorman on November 04, 2017, 08:57:57 AM
If the voting age was lowered to 16, I wonder how many would actually bother to vote? Apparently it is hard to get the under 40s to vote in any great numbers, so I have heard.

The stats show that substantial numbers of 16-18 year olds voted in the 2014 referendum and in last years Scottish local government elections.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Harrowby Hall on November 04, 2017, 08:58:57 AM
If the voting age was lowered to 16, I wonder how many would actually bother to vote? Apparently it is hard to get the under 40s to vote in any great numbers, so I have heard.

That's what I'm trying to say in my latest post. It is some time since I have talked with young people about it, but a frequent comment was of the "what good would my vote be?" nature. Perhaps it's a built-in problem of the "first past the post" two-party system.

But there are political subjects which are of concern to young people. Why shouldn't they have a say in their consideration?
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Sebastian Toe on November 04, 2017, 03:14:38 PM
If the voting age was lowered to 16, I wonder how many would actually bother to vote? Apparently it is hard to get the under 40s to vote in any great numbers, so I have heard.
Is that a reason to not allow them to vote?
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: floo on November 04, 2017, 03:26:12 PM
Is that a reason to not allow them to vote?

How low should the voting age go do you think?
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Sebastian Toe on November 04, 2017, 03:55:38 PM
How low should the voting age go do you think?
16 is fine. See replies #3 and #7.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: floo on November 04, 2017, 04:03:08 PM
I would prefer it to stay at 18, so we will have to agree to differ.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: jeremyp on November 04, 2017, 06:26:00 PM
I think we should abolish the voting age but make people do an exam to prove they are competent to vote. Recent ballots have shown quite a lot of us have no clue.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Shaker on November 04, 2017, 09:41:14 PM
I think we should abolish the voting age but make people do an exam to prove they are competent to vote. Recent ballots have shown quite a lot of us have no clue.
Which sounds an awful lot like aristocracy rather than democracy (demos, the people).
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Rhiannon on November 04, 2017, 10:51:31 PM
Which sounds an awful lot like aristocracy rather than democracy (demos, the people).

I’d have thought it a meritocracy myself.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Shaker on November 04, 2017, 11:05:40 PM
I’d have thought it a meritocracy myself.
If you know your Greek, technically it's pretty well the same thing.

Either way, it's not democracy. The idea that the great unwashed hordes can't be trusted with the vote because they're not intelligent like as what I are and might vote for things that I don't like isn't an -ocracy but a particularly nasty -ism.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Rhiannon on November 04, 2017, 11:18:21 PM
The idea of taking exams in order to play a part in the running of society is peculiar to meritocracy.

The problem isn’t so much that voters can’t be trusted with their vote, but that politicians and leaders can’t be trusted not to lie.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Shaker on November 04, 2017, 11:31:23 PM
The idea of taking exams in order to play a part in the running of society is peculiar to meritocracy.

The problem isn’t so much that voters can’t be trusted with their vote

That seems to be the problem for Jeremy, who implied as much.

Quote
but that politicians and leaders can’t be trusted not to lie.
That's never been any different.

If there's an issue of trust in play, it's in trusting people to know when they're being lied to. The general view of the political class and the esteem in which politicians broadly are held suggests that that trust isn't misplaced.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 05, 2017, 08:37:22 AM
The only rule I would have about voting as regards exams is that people who think you should pass exams for voting shouldn't have a vote.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: jeremyp on November 06, 2017, 03:46:53 AM
Which sounds an awful lot like aristocracy rather than democracy (demos, the people).
I think meritocracy would be a more appropriate name for it than aristocracy. But don't worry, my suggestion was mostly tongue in cheek.

However, I really don't think it is a good idea to let 16 year olds vote as a rule. I think you need to give them a chance to get some maturity.
Title: Re: Lower the Voting Age?
Post by: Walter on November 06, 2017, 09:01:32 AM
Quote
However, I really don't think it is a good idea to let 16 year olds vote as a rule. I think you need to give them a chance to get some maturity.

I'm well old and I'm still waiting!!!!