Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Owlswing on November 16, 2017, 02:28:58 PM

Title: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Owlswing on November 16, 2017, 02:28:58 PM
Is this prostitution in disguise?

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/teenage-model-apos-sells-her-072433463.html
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Shaker on November 16, 2017, 02:47:23 PM
There have been other examples of this.

I don't know that I particularly have any stance on it as such. Calling it prostitution is one thing; but that's legal here, I believe it is in Germany and it certainly is in one US state.

The nub of it for me is the same here as it is elsewhere. Is she competent and consenting? She certainly seems to be. She seems highly intelligent and enterprising, actually. You could put a feminist argument that she's selling a commodity - her virginity - to the highest bidder and thus making herself a sellable object; but for one thing much of contemporary feminism isn't notably sex positive (and is blatantly hypocritical when it comes to sex work), and for another, surely that applies across the board to anybody who has to sell their time, skills and labour to earn a living.

I dunno. If she's comfortable and safe - genuinely so - have at it.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: floo on November 16, 2017, 02:56:04 PM
Is this prostitution in disguise?

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/teenage-model-apos-sells-her-072433463.html

It is prostitution, imo, how very tragic! :o
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Shaker on November 16, 2017, 02:57:30 PM
It is prostitution, imo, how very tragic! :o
Does she think it's tragic?
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: floo on November 16, 2017, 03:37:24 PM
Does she think it's tragic?

Maybe not at present, but could well live to regret it in later life.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Walter on November 16, 2017, 04:10:54 PM
Maybe not at present, but could well live to regret it in later life.
for £2,million , I think it would be a distant memory ! plus she may enjoy the experience  WIN -WIN ?
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: jeremyp on November 16, 2017, 06:09:50 PM
Maybe not at present, but could well live to regret it in later life.

With £2 million, I seriously doubt she is regretting it.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 16, 2017, 06:15:23 PM
for £2,million , I think it would be a distant memory ! plus she may enjoy the experience  WIN -WIN ?
So had your daughter done this you would see it as a win win?
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Rhiannon on November 16, 2017, 06:25:16 PM
Maybe not at present, but could well live to regret it in later life.

It’s really not uncommon to kick yourself over the first person you have sex with. £2 million might make it less cringey to look back on.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: floo on November 16, 2017, 06:30:23 PM
With £2 million, I seriously doubt she is regretting it.

There is more to life than money, like self respect.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 16, 2017, 06:38:18 PM
It’s really not uncommon to kick yourself over the first person you have sex with. £2 million might make it less cringey to look back on.
or more
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 16, 2017, 06:39:09 PM
There is more to life than money, like self respect.
But the person may well have self respect and money here.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Shaker on November 16, 2017, 06:41:23 PM
There is more to life than money, like self respect.
Not everybody equates self respect with "not having sex."
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Walter on November 16, 2017, 06:42:43 PM
So had your daughter done this you would see it as a win win?
of course I would , I'm not fucking mental !!!
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Walter on November 16, 2017, 06:45:30 PM
There is more to life than money, like self respect.
I would probably pay £2million NOT to have sex with you , thanks all the same
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 16, 2017, 06:48:05 PM
of course I would , I'm not fucking mental !!!
Really? Your daughter auctions her virginity to a random rich person, and you would be cheering away on the sidelines?
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Robbie on November 16, 2017, 07:17:59 PM
It’s really not uncommon to kick yourself over the first person you have sex with. £2 million might make it less cringey to look back on.


I agree! (She could disguise herself and sell it again if she's a good enough actress.)

From what I have read, many students sell themselves to pay for uni. When they graduate and are working they leave all that behind them.

If the experience is very unpleasant she might regret it but £2m will help.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 16, 2017, 07:19:22 PM


I agree! (She could disguise herself and sell it again if she's a good enough actress.)

From what I have read, many students sell themselves to pay for uni. When they graduate and are working they leave all that behind them.

If the experience is very unpleasant she might regret it but £2m will help.

Or it will make it worse.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Walter on November 16, 2017, 07:21:28 PM
Really? Your daughter auctions her virginity to a random rich person, and you would be cheering away on the sidelines?

'on the sidelines' ..... I'm not a freekin pervert Saney.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Shaker on November 16, 2017, 07:27:30 PM


I agree! (She could disguise herself and sell it again if she's a good enough actress.)
Or wearing tights, of course.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Robbie on November 16, 2017, 07:31:55 PM
Or it will make it worse.

Depends how horrible it was and how able she is to put it down to experience and move on, everyone's different.
Lots of people have horrible sexual experiences when they're young and have nothing to show for it!

I was wondering what sort of man would pay £2m for a woman's virginity when he could probably get it for nothing and that is a creepy thought.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: jeremyp on November 16, 2017, 07:38:32 PM
There is more to life than money, like self respect.

Yes but £2 million!

Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Robbie on November 16, 2017, 08:40:56 PM
The more I think about this, the more I wonder about the man who is paying and I have a mental picture of someone very strange indeed. I hope he's been thoroughly vetted and the agency has laid down strong guidelines.

This also elevates the state of virginity which is odd nowadays.  Maybe he is inadequate in some way and knows a virgin will have nothing with which to compare him.

Nevertheless £2m is not to be sneezed at.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Rhiannon on November 16, 2017, 08:46:44 PM
The more I think about this, the more I wonder about the man who is paying and I have a mental picture of someone very strange indeed. I hope he's been thoroughly vetted and the agency has laid down strong guidelines.

This also elevates the state of virginity which is odd nowadays.  Maybe he is inadequate in some way and knows a virgin will have nothing with which to compare him.

Nevertheless £2m is not to be sneezed at.

It's not an uncommon fantasy though, is it, being the first? And this man is Arabic.

Throw is a stupid amount of money and it is as much about power as it is sex.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Rhiannon on November 16, 2017, 08:47:20 PM
Or it will make it worse.

Indeed. She won't know which until later.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Shaker on November 16, 2017, 09:01:53 PM
Maybe not at present, but could well live to regret it in later life.
What a recipe for a dismal and wasted existence it would be to go through life rejecting anything on the chance that you might regret it.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Owlswing on November 16, 2017, 09:12:35 PM

I am just wondering what the act of making her transaction public is likely to cost her.

She is, after all, in America and I cannot see the Bible belt and the Westboro lot taking kindly to her decsion and making their opinions on it very very public.

Hate campaign type public.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Shaker on November 16, 2017, 09:18:28 PM
I am just wondering what the act of making her transaction public is likely to cost her.

She is, after all, in America and I cannot see the Bible belt and the Westboro lot taking kindly to her decsion and making their opiniopns on it very very public.

Hate campaign type public.
Balanced against that you have to take into account that this is an online age and - to use an idiom now a few decades out of date - today's news is tomorrow's fish and chip paper.

Even in the States, who will remember her name a month from now let alone a year?
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Rhiannon on November 16, 2017, 09:28:47 PM

I am just wondering what the act of making her transaction public is likely to cost her.

She is, after all, in America and I cannot see the Bible belt and the Westboro lot taking kindly to her decsion and making their opiniopns on it very very public.

Hate campaign type public.

I doubt she will be on the receiving end of too much. The alt right save their bile for the victims and families of victims of mass shootings these days.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Robbie on November 16, 2017, 09:33:52 PM
It's not an uncommon fantasy though, is it, being the first? And this man is Arabic.

Throw is a stupid amount of money and it is as much about power as it is sex.

I noted he was probably an Arab but £2m? The two other highest bidders were a Hollywood actor and a Russian businessman. I just hope she is safe.

Regarding the publicity, she didn't give her full name and even the first name, Giselle, may not be her real name.
The photo is not so striking as to be remembered so I doubt this story will follow her.

Considering what a very expensive business university education is now, and how debt-ridden students are unless they have a lot of financial support from family, the story doesn't surprise me at all.  Who can blame her?
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Owlswing on November 16, 2017, 10:13:03 PM

To go back to the OP - is is a form, albeit as a one-off, of prostition?
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Robbie on November 16, 2017, 10:25:35 PM
Oh yes, selling sex is prostitution however dressed up.
I wonder if it will be a one off?
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Rhiannon on November 17, 2017, 08:07:37 AM
There's actually a huge amount that we are taking on trust here. That the photo is really her, that the businessman exists, that this isn't some kind of weird trolling or publicity stunt...
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Robbie on November 17, 2017, 08:17:43 AM
That's true, someone could have just put the story up for a laugh and to cause controversy. Oh well, we've had a discussion about it, no harm done to us.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: floo on November 17, 2017, 09:11:34 AM
What a recipe for a dismal and wasted existence it would be to go through life rejecting anything on the chance that you might regret it.

Like prostitution, for instance? ::)
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Rhiannon on November 17, 2017, 09:37:49 AM
Like prostitution, for instance? ::)

Or marriage?
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 17, 2017, 09:42:04 AM
Balanced against that you have to take into account that this is an online age and - to use an idiom now a few decades out of date - today's news is tomorrow's fish and chip paper.

Even in the States, who will remember her name a month from now let alone a year?
Surely it's now much more likely to be remembered or searchable than chip papers? You don't need to remember a name just how to use a search engine.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Owlswing on November 17, 2017, 09:49:39 AM

There's actually a huge amount that we are taking on trust here. That the photo is really her, that the businessman exists, that this isn't some kind of weird trolling or publicity stunt...


I did think of this before I posted, but, it being set in the U S and knowing their penchant for doing bloody stupid things.

At least one other case exists, if my admittedly rather imperfect memory, serves, of a similar case of a girl in tge U S who tried to auction off her virginity on Ebay. In that case I think, ebay blocked it.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on November 17, 2017, 09:50:58 AM
Is this prostitution in disguise?

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/teenage-model-apos-sells-her-072433463.html

It would seem to be prostitution to me, but I don't see anything wrong with that if there is no coercion. IMHO it is preferable to selling a kidney for a few hundred quid, which some have resorted to.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Owlswing on November 17, 2017, 09:52:34 AM

It would seem to be prostitution to me, but I don't see anything wrong with that if there is no coercion. IMHO it is preferable to selling a kidney for a few hundred quid, which some have resorted to.


Which is more important - saving a life or getting an education?
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Shaker on November 17, 2017, 09:53:44 AM
Like prostitution, for instance? ::)
Like anything at all. Far better to cultivate an attitude that whatever happens, good or bad, it's something to learn from and that regret is a bad thing (as well as a waste of time).

Other pearls of wisdom available at very competitive rates.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Rhiannon on November 17, 2017, 10:33:25 AM
Life without risking regret is a life that hasn't been lived, a safe life, a half life. Sometimes there's a heavy price to pay for the gamble the doesn't pay off, but as in all high stakes games if it comes in the rewards are astronomical.

FTR I regard the two biggest risks in life are having kids (it's like they reach into your heart and wring it) and falling in love. From that point of view selling your virginity in a business transaction could be seen as quite a safe option.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on November 17, 2017, 12:17:55 PM
Which is more important - saving a life or getting an education?

My point is that some people have been so desperate for money that they have sold their kidneys for a fraction of the sum that this young lady has been paid for renting the use of her vagina.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Robbie on November 17, 2017, 12:56:05 PM
Like prostitution, for instance? ::)

There are worse things, floo. It's not unknown for people do it to fund uni, young people can be very adventurous.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: wigginhall on November 17, 2017, 01:03:07 PM
One of my top students, who in the end got a first, partly funded herself by posing on page 3 of the Sun.  Of course, she got a fearful time with other students, well, male ones of the crass variety, but she was a tough kid, and weathered it. 
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on November 17, 2017, 01:07:41 PM
One of my top students, who in the end got a first, partly funded herself by posing on page 3 of the Sun.  Of course, she got a fearful time with other students, well, male ones of the crass variety, but she was a tough kid, and weathered it.

I do not see that as prostitution. I don't know when this happened, but I would suspect that any student who chose to make money this way in the current climate would get more grief from her local NUS women's committee than from "crass" males.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Harrowby Hall on November 18, 2017, 11:56:35 AM
So the story goes ...

George Bernard Shaw was sitting next to a rather glamorous woman at a dinner party. He teased her: "If I paid you a thousand pounds, would you go to bed with me?"

The answer came: "Why, Mr Shaw, who could resist an offer like that>"

"If I paid you one pound, would you go to bed with me?"

Indignant explosion: "What do you take me for? A prostitute?"

"We have already established that - we are negotiating the price."

Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: ippy on November 18, 2017, 12:56:23 PM
The thing is who are we to judge I no longer know what's right in such things.

ippy
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Owlswing on November 18, 2017, 02:14:52 PM
So the story goes ...

George Bernard Shaw was sitting next to a rather glamorous woman at a dinner party. He teased her: "If I paid you a thousand pounds, would you go to bed with me?"

The answer came: "Why, Mr Shaw, who could resist an offer like that>"

"If I paid you one pound, would you go to bed with me?"

Indignant explosion: "What do you take me for? A prostitute?"

"We have already established that - we are negotiating the price."


L O L

Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Walter on November 18, 2017, 02:25:31 PM
Or marriage?
I tell you what; it would have been less expensive for me if I had had a live in prostitute / maid.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Walter on November 18, 2017, 02:29:57 PM
Which is more important - saving a life or getting an education?
depends whose life it is  ::)
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Sebastian Toe on November 18, 2017, 06:48:09 PM
Which is more important - saving a life or getting an education?
Education is important, saving a life is importanter!
 ;)
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Harrowby Hall on November 19, 2017, 08:13:28 AM
I tell you what; it would have been less expensive for me if I had had a live in prostitute / maid.

Not after you had paid the fines for living off immoral earnings!  ;)
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Owlswing on November 19, 2017, 09:07:00 AM

Not after you had paid the fines for living off immoral earnings!  ;)


Not really, he would be paying her - therefore SHE would be the one living off immoral earnings, but I think the idea was of a wife fulfilling both functions, maid and whore.
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Rhiannon on November 19, 2017, 09:22:59 AM
Not really, he would be paying her - therefore SHE would be the one living off immoral earnings, but I think the idea was of a wife fulfilling both functions, maid and whore.

Yeah because that's a recipe for marital harmony and fulfilment.  ::)
Title: Re: Is this a matter of ethics or morals or economics?
Post by: Walter on November 19, 2017, 12:26:20 PM
Not really, he would be paying her - therefore SHE would be the one living off immoral earnings, but I think the idea was of a wife fulfilling both functions, maid and whore.
thanks Owly, you saved me the trouble