Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Philosophy, in all its guises. => Topic started by: Keith Maitland on November 20, 2017, 06:06:09 AM
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'Even if we are born healthy and into a relatively stable environment, even if all our basic needs are met, we still face difficulties. We seek health and vitality, friends and mates, pleasure and happiness. Our desires appear unlimited. And presuming that we fulfill these desires, we still face pressing philosophical concerns: What is real? What can we know? What should we do? What can we hope for? And, most importantly, what is the meaning of life in a world that contains so much suffering and death? This is the central philosophical question of human life. Fortune may shine upon us but we ultimately suffer and perish, raising the question of the point of it all. If all our hopes, plans, longings, and loves ultimately vanish, then what does it all mean? Our question is not just academic; it penetrates to the core of the human existence.'
https://reasonandmeaning.com/2017/11/19/the-problem-of-life/
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'Even if we are born healthy and into a relatively stable environment, even if all our basic needs are met, we still face difficulties. We seek health and vitality, friends and mates, pleasure and happiness. Our desires appear unlimited. And presuming that we fulfill these desires, we still face pressing philosophical concerns: What is real? What can we know? What should we do? What can we hope for? And, most importantly, what is the meaning of life in a world that contains so much suffering and death? This is the central philosophical question of human life. Fortune may shine upon us but we ultimately suffer and perish, raising the question of the point of it all. If all our hopes, plans, longings, and loves ultimately vanish, then what does it all mean? Our question is not just academic; it penetrates to the core of the human existence.'
https://reasonandmeaning.com/2017/11/19/the-problem-of-life/
This is the age old problem that religion and spirituality have sought to solve.
We have two parts. One is the lower part that faces all the issues that you outline above. The second is the higher part which shows us the way to eternity and freedom from suffering.
Many people living with the lower nature itself manage to be so ego centric that they remain defiantly insulated from such issues and problems. Others strive towards the second and manage to live a life of faith, hope, knowledge and joy.
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This is the age old problem that religion and spirituality have sought to solve.
We have two parts. One is the lower part that faces all the issues that you outline above. The second is the higher part which shows us the way to eternity and freedom from suffering.
Many people living with the lower nature itself manage to be so ego centric that they remain defiantly insulated from such issues and problems. Others strive towards the second and manage to live a life of faith, hope, knowledge and joy.
Most religions offer fantasy beliefs calculated to soothe the mind; buddhism being the main exception where, instead of escapism, the emphasis is on reconciling oneself to reality, to suffering, to mortality.
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Most religions offer fantasy beliefs calculated to soothe the mind; buddhism being the main exception where, instead of escapism, the emphasis is on reconciling oneself to reality, to suffering, to mortality.
Buddhism is very much a spiritual philosophy born of Samkhya. It focuses on eliminating karmic influences and ending rebirth.
It is however the most misinterpreted philosophy....ranging from nihilism at one end and idol worship of the Buddha on the other. This is probably because there is no written material from the Buddha himself. His disciples tried to spread his teachings in various countries and over the centuries different people interpreted his teachings to suit their requirements.
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This is the age old problem that religion and spirituality have sought to solve.
We have two parts. One is the lower part that faces all the issues that you outline above. The second is the higher part which shows us the way to eternity and freedom from suffering.
Many people living with the lower nature itself manage to be so ego centric that they remain defiantly insulated from such issues and problems. Others strive towards the second and manage to live a life of faith, hope, knowledge and joy.
Couldn't help noticing Sriram, torri's post demolished your naive view in five lines worth of wisdom.
Regards ippy
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'Even if we are born healthy and into a relatively stable environment, even if all our basic needs are met, we still face difficulties. We seek health and vitality, friends and mates, pleasure and happiness. Our desires appear unlimited. And presuming that we fulfill these desires, we still face pressing philosophical concerns: What is real? What can we know? What should we do? What can we hope for? And, most importantly, what is the meaning of life in a world that contains so much suffering and death? This is the central philosophical question of human life. Fortune may shine upon us but we ultimately suffer and perish, raising the question of the point of it all. If all our hopes, plans, longings, and loves ultimately vanish, then what does it all mean? Our question is not just academic; it penetrates to the core of the human existence.'
https://reasonandmeaning.com/2017/11/19/the-problem-of-life/
What a little ray of sunshine you are! ::)
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I always think of this Joseph Campbell quote when I read stuff like the OP.
‘Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.’
Something about the external search for meaning seems to me to be a way of avoiding taking responsibility for one’s own life.
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The idea of the point of it all baffles me. What is this 'all'? Surely, most people live day by day, or week by week, and don't really look at their life as a whole narrative. I think depression makes people ask such questions.
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Or alternatively they ask such questions and depression follows? Both of those seem a bit post hoc, ergo propter hoc to me. Depression seems more about nothing meaning anything on any level.
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My experience of depression is that it is because you know there is so much meaning in the moment (laughing with friends, a walk in the rain, hugging your kids) and you can't meet the moment so you are aware of life slipping through your fingers. It has never had anything to do with the 'big ideas'.
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This is the age old problem that religion and spirituality have sought to solve.
We have two parts. One is the lower part that faces all the issues that you outline above. The second is the higher part which shows us the way to eternity and freedom from suffering.
Many people living with the lower nature itself manage to be so ego centric that they remain defiantly insulated from such issues and problems. Others strive towards the second and manage to live a life of faith, hope, knowledge and joy.
I like that Sririam.
In his OP Keith echoes what a lot of people think, "Is there any point to anything?". I've heard people say that. Sad but understandable.
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Perhaps depression is more complex than one thing? Even if it is different for different people? Though I do recognise the idea of slipping through the fingers, it depends on the me at the time and which of what rationalisms or irrationalisms that me is feeling at the time.
The OP is only relating when that me is being terribly grand and intense. Sometimes depression is tiny and vague.
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My experience of depression is that it is because you know there is so much meaning in the moment (laughing with friends, a walk in the rain, hugging your kids) and you can't meet the moment so you are aware of life slipping through your fingers. It has never had anything to do with the 'big ideas'.
I can identify with that and with what NS has said.
(I feel like a group hug but that's not really on nowadays ;) )
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Perhaps depression is more complex than one thing? Even if it is different for different people? Though I do recognise the idea of slipping through the fingers, it depends on the me at the time and which of what rationalisms or irrationalisms that me is feeling at the time.
The OP is only relating when that me is being terribly grand and intense. Sometimes depression is tiny and vague.
It's funny but as both a theist and a non theist (loosely speaking) I've never looked for the big meaning beyond the present. I know exactly what you mean about depression being vague. Sometimes it can just be a feeling of greyness.
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Like being in a glass jar, the world goes on outside it but you can't reach it. Yet it's safe in a way. Big grey cloud overhead, utter exhaustion.
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Like being in a glass jar, the world goes on outside it but you can't reach it. Yet it's safe in a way. Big grey cloud overhead, utter exhaustion.
The safety thing is very much to do with anxiety, which I have had far more than depression. But then it leads to depression, because you can see life is going on and you can't join it, and you know that this time will never come back.
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I always think of this Joseph Campbell quote when I read stuff like the OP.
‘Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.’
Something about the external search for meaning seems to me to be a way of avoiding taking responsibility for one’s own life.
Nice one. Alan Watts is particularly good on all this too. One of my favourites (paraphrased due to dodgy memory, but not much): "So much trouble in life stems from people taking seriously what the gods invented for play."
ETA: Actual quote: "Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the Gods made for fun."