Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Owlswing on November 28, 2017, 07:14:21 PM
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I have been mulling over whether or not to post this since Saturday night and am only doing so now to stop myself going (more) bloody nuts (than I already am)!
A couple of friends, four guys and five girls, and I were having a drink in an almost empty pub and one of those silences that result from running out of things about which to bitch that we haven't bitched to death before fell upon us when one of the girls, well known for her frequent visits to porn web-sites, asked why so many of those performing in porn films, male and female, wore a crucifix around their necks but not the Star of David or the Pentacle or even a St Christopher.
To say that the ensuing conversation offered no sensible answer to the question would be a gigantic understatement.
I have not tried to check the veracity of the statement and have no intention of so doing, but the "WHY" is nagging at the back of my mind and I throw it to the assembled intellect of the Forum to see if anyone has an answer or even a possible reason for the phenomenon.
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Off the top of my head:
Probably most porn is US-based, so a de facto though not de jure Christian climate, and in any case crosses are widely seen by many as another item of jewellery - a fashion accessory in some cases - with no religious component.
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why so many of those performing in porn films, male and female, wore a crucifix around their necks but not .......................the Pentacle
Maybe those who would wear it lack the necessary tools of that trade?
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Maybe those who would wear it lack the necessary tools of that trade?
You'll have to be a bit less elliptical, Vlad.
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The majority of porn is staged - or at least stage managed. It is totally devoid of spontaneity. So, here is a suggestion ...
My guess is that the majority of porn watchers are adolescent Americans - many of them not receiving sex education because the redneck Trump-supporting religious boneheads believe that it will encourage these young people to engage in sinful activity. Their only source of information therefore is porn. The shadowy bosses of the porn industry therefore encourage their actors to wear crosses in the expectation that the young will subliminally perceive the actors' activity as being normal and acceptable.
I'm sure someone can produce a better explanation ....
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You'll have to be a bit less elliptical, Vlad.
I'm not sure if he's trying to take the piss out of Pagans or Freemasons . . .
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Off the top of my head:
Probably most porn is US-based, so a de facto though not de jure Christian climate, and in any case crosses are widely seen by many as another item of jewellery - a fashion accessory in some cases - with no religious component.
I would agree, except that our informant stated that the same seems to be the case in films originating in Germany, Sweden, Hungary and Russia.
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I'd have thought that porn aficionados would be more interested in the other forms of dangly bits on show.
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It should be little sleighs for the patron saint of porn brokers, amongst other things.
http://www.kinky.com/guess-whos-patron-saint-sex-work/
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I'd have thought that porn aficionados would be more interested in the other forms of dangly bits on show.
The lady in question has no interest in dangly bits unless they dangle from the chest.
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It should be little sleighs for the patron saint of porn brokers, amongst other things.
http://www.kinky.com/guess-whos-patron-saint-sex-work/
Nice bit of research there NS!
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In answer to the question though, I agree with Shaker's idea but would add that in terms of those watching (and even adding the other countries) the most culturally transgressive symbol that would resonate with watchers and emphasise the 'naughtiness' would be a cross.
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Very ornate and embellished crosses are worn by all sorts of people with no religious affiliations so I wouldn't read too much into it. It doesn't surprise me one bit that porn stars wear them.
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In answer to the question though, I agree with Shaker's idea but would add that in terms of those watching (and even adding the other countries) the most culturally transgressive symbol that would resonate with watchers and emphasise the 'naughtiness' would be a cross.
There's a thought - last thing before the cameras roll the wardrobe mistress yelling "Hang on, you forgot your Crucifixs!"
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In answer to the question though, I agree with Shaker's idea but would add that in terms of those watching (and even adding the other countries) the most culturally transgressive symbol that would resonate with watchers and emphasise the 'naughtiness' would be a cross.
Yes, I like that. It's much more parsimonious than my suggestion.
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There's a thought - last thing before the cameras roll the wardrobe mistress yelling "Hang on, you forgot your Crucifixs!"
Anything filmed in early November when they all have to have poppies attached somewhere is the real nightmare.
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Anything filmed in early November when they all have to have poppies attached somewhere is the real nightmare.
I once saw one on all fours sporting a daffodil , not pleasant :o
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What a Carry On!
(Isn't it a bit weird that we're discussing porn here as if it is quite OK and a normal subject of conversation over a drink?)
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What a Carry On!
(Isn't it a bit weird that we're discussing porn here as if it is quite OK and a normal subject of conversation over a drink?)
its normal to many people . Because you don't think it is doesn't mean it isn't ::)
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What a Carry On!
(Isn't it a bit weird that we're discussing porn here as if it is quite OK and a normal subject of conversation over a drink?)
It ISN'T normal subject which is why I held off from posting about it as I did.
It was the combination of the source and the subject of the jewellery that seemed odd enough to make it worth mentioning.
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Isn’t the most likely explanation that they are Catholic, or at least Christian? The transgression thing makes sense, and I’m thinking this goes a step further.
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Off the top of my head:
Probably most porn is US-based, so a de facto though not de jure Christian climate, and in any case crosses are widely seen by many as another item of jewellery - a fashion accessory in some cases - with no religious component.
this I agree with , however there is a great deal of content coming from the Balkan states and Russia either home made or very low budget productions using mainly amateur people .
These are not slick productions with recognised porn actors , mainly ordinary folk for whom the crucifix is incidental to the film .
They just happen to be wearing it and it becomes evident when they get their kit off.
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this I agree with , however there is a great deal of content coming from the Balkan states and Russia either home made or very low budget productions using mainly amateur people .
These are not slick productions with recognised porn actors , mainly ordinary folk for whom the crucifix is incidental to the film .
They just happen to be wearing it and it becomes evident when they get their kit off.
This is what I think too. Catholics who also happen to make porn.
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Russian Orthodox crucifixes are quite different from RC, or Anglican Crucifixes.
FTR I do recall seeing a porn video in which one of the actresses wore a Star of David.
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This is what I think too. Catholics who also happen to make porn.
I heard a programme on radio 4 which covered some of this . It has become popular as a very lucrative income stream for normally low paid or unemployed people out in the sticks with a laptop and a video camera .
To be honest it looks far more genuine and real than the stuff 'coming' out of USA and therefore much more appealing , so I'm told ;)
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Off the top of my head:
Probably most porn is US-based, so a de facto though not de jure Christian climate, and in any case crosses are widely seen by many as another item of jewellery - a fashion accessory in some cases - with no religious component.
A cross yes, in my experience those who wear a crucifix actually mean it. That is why I find it interesting that the OP refers to the latter rather than the former.
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Russian Orthodox crucifixes are quite different from RC, or Anglican Crucifixes.
FTR I do recall seeing a porn video in which one of the actresses wore a Star of David.
For research purposes, I presume :o
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For research purposes, I presume :o
Yes the segment was entitled "Marilyn from Canterbury" & I wanted to check if it really was filmed in Canterbury.......
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Yes the segment was entitled "Marilyn from Canterbury"
It wasn't Canterbury :o
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This is what I think too. Catholics who also happen to make porn.
They're rubbish. Ten minutes of hard-core sex, four and a half hours of guilt.
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I heard a programme on radio 4 which covered some of this . It has become popular as a very lucrative income stream for normally low paid or unemployed people out in the sticks with a laptop and a video camera .
To be honest it looks far more genuine and real than the stuff 'coming' out of USA and therefore much more appealing , so I'm told ;)
In a lot of places Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity is cultural as much as religious. I doubt many taking part even think about the fact they are wearing crucifixes/crosses.
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I thought that too. Crosses of all types are worn by lots of people - and can look quite dramatic - but rarely is a crucifix seen. We could be wrong about this issue though, it might be the exception.
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In a lot of places Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity is cultural as much as religious. I doubt many taking part even think about the fact they are wearing crucifixes/crosses.
As above, in my experience that is not the case. In the USA crosses are commonplace, but few wear a crucifix just as a piece of jewellery, since the same is usually considered by non practitioners to be an ugly image.
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Is Sir Owl's friend accurate when she refers to crucifixes and not crosses?
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That's what I wondered.
I also thought that a porn actor, wearing either cross or crucifix, would appear to be sacreligious and therefore more daring - doubt the actors think about it one way or the other but we'd have to ask them to be sure.
PS: Googled "Why do porn actors wear crosses and crucifixes" and, blimey, loads of stuff came up with a variety of reasons so it must be quite common! Also mentioned gangsta rappers and other people.
(I do find myself looking up some bizarre things these days! I'm in bed, not being idle but came home after being very sick earlier. Feeling less nauseous now thank goodness, all this is taking my mind off it!)
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Is Sir Owl's friend accurate when she refers to crucifixes and not crosses?
A quick 'phone call to the lady in question and she said that she mentioned both, but did state that the crucifix was the rarer of the two.
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(I do find myself looking up some bizarre things these days! I'm in bed, not being idle but came home after being very sick earlier. Feeling less nauseous now thank goodness, all this is taking my mind off it!)
Whereas a dyed in the wool Christian's nausea would get progressively worse . . . .
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It's not that I like it Owlswing but cannot and will not judge someone who does not share my faith. I doubt that a cross or crucifix has any meaning to the actors.
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It's not that I like it Owlswing but cannot and will not judge someone who does not share my faith. I doubt that a cross or crucifix has any meaning to the actors.
A light edit . . .
"I doubt that a cross or crucifix has any meaning to the actors"
to read
"I doubt that a cross or crucifix has any meaning to many of the actors"
and I would probably agree with you.
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True.
(When I said I can't and won't judge I am speaking about things like this, concerning consenting adults. I've no idea what makes people to do such things for a living but they are human beings like me.
I'd certainly judge anyone who committed acts of violence, armed robbery or the like.)
Anyway have you looked up why crosses are worn by porn actors? There's plenty of information about it on the internet.
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True.
(When I said I can't and won't judge I am speaking about things like this, concerning consenting adults. I've no idea what makes people to do such things for a living but they are human beings like me.
I'd certainly judge anyone who committed acts of violence, armed robbery or the like.)
Anyway have you looked up why crosses are worn by porn actors? There's plenty of information about it on the internet.
quite a lot of is not acting as such , they are performers , thousands of them are amateurs and they appear to enjoy it
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Actors appear to enjoy all sorts of things, that's what acting is about. Actors are performers.
I dunno much about porn, my sister and I watched 'Fifty Shades', on Netflix a while back as we'd heard a bit about the book ("Mommy" porn apparently), and wondered what the fuss was all about. That wasn't real nor was the story realistic imo - but it was very scarey.
(The actors didn't wear crosses or crucifixes - some of the time they wore a lot less than that.)
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Actors appear to enjoy all sorts of things, that's what acting is about. Actors are performers.
I dunno much about porn, my sister and I watched 'Fifty Shades', on Netflix a while back as we'd heard a bit about the book ("Mommy" porn apparently), and wondered what the fuss was all about. That wasn't real nor was the story realistic imo - but it was very scarey.
(The actors didn't wear crosses or crucifixes - some of the time they wore a lot less than that.)
"Fifty Shades" has about as much to do with the "real" world of Dom/Sub BDSM as "Harry Potter" has to do with witches (there are no wizards) in the real world.
For the uninitiated, in a true Dom/Sub relationship it is the Sub who controls what goes on, what happens and, far more importantly, what does NOT happen.
The Dom and the Sub will agree beforehand on what is called the "Safe" word - a word that would never be used in the normal course of anything that might happen during a BDSM session and, once said by the Sub, all, ALL activity stops, no ifs, buts or maybes, it stops.
Mr Grey is not a BDSM Dom, he is a sadistic controlling bully and rapist and the writer has no idea, and has admiited so, of what actually happens in a real BDSM relationship but this did not stop her writing two sequals that were equally ill-informed.
Most of what "the fuss was all about" was from BDSM afficianados bitching at the misrepresentation of their particular kink!
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Actors appear to enjoy all sorts of things, that's what acting is about. Actors are performers.
I dunno much about porn, my sister and I watched 'Fifty Shades', on Netflix a while back as we'd heard a bit about the book ("Mommy" porn apparently), and wondered what the fuss was all about. That wasn't real nor was the story realistic imo - but it was very scarey.
(The actors didn't wear crosses or crucifixes - some of the time they wore a lot less than that.)
maybe you should spend an hour whilst you are 'not feeling well 'and have a look at what I mean , then I won't need to explain it
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No, I like romantic fiction, Walter. However I'm quite interested in this thread. Oy, don't put my 'not feeling well' in quotation marks! I'm no faker, you cheeky thing!)
Owl, thanks for the information, I hadn't read any of that. Agree the male lead was a sadistic bully, that was frightening.
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Apparently 50 Shades started off as Twilight fan fic. Figures.
In our village library (aka the old telephone box) you can always find several copies.
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Apparently 50 Shades started off as Twilight fan fic. Figures.
In our village library (aka the old telephone box) you can always find several copies.
Much thumbed and dog-eared I have no doubt!
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Oy, don't put my 'not feeling well' in quotation marks! I'm no faker, you cheeky thing!
Come on, Robbie, you know that you can always rely on Walter for the cheap shot!
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Come on, Robbie, you know that you can always rely on Walter for the cheap shot!
..........and, there it is ::)
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..........and, there it is ::)
Since when was my name Walter!
But, then again, I have come to expect nothing else from you.
Like I said - you are gutless - you can dish it out but you can't take it!
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We can take it Owlswing, on the chins!
(I'm downstairs now and have just thrown up btw, I'm sure you wanted to know that.)
Walter is only having a bit of phun.
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Since when was my name Walter!
But, then again, I have come to expect nothing else from you.
Like I said - you are gutless - you can dish it out but you can't take it!
Mr Owl,
your expectations and pronouncements are none of my concern .
btw, Im guessing you and your woodland creature friends must be getting a strong 4G signal down there in the depths of the cold dark forest to be able to keep posting on here . Better get that fire lit though, it's going to be cold tonight
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We can take it Owlswing, on the chins!
(I'm downstairs now and have just thrown up btw, I'm sure you wanted to know that.)
Walter is only having a bit of phun.
;)
hope you feel better soon (too much sherry?)
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What a horrible thought. Sherry, yeuch!
I feel a bit better, went up for a shower just after 8pm.
Husband kept saying I needed something to eat, he did something for himself, I couldn't face it but have just had tomato soup and am keeping it down. Lovely comfort food, only thing I've eaten today.
I'm sure I'll be OK tomorrow. Thanks.
Back to porn and crosses!
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What a horrible thought. Sherry, yeuch!
I feel a bit better, went up for a shower just after 8pm.
Husband kept saying I needed something to eat, he did something for himself, I couldn't face it but have just had tomato soup and am keeping it down. Lovely comfort food, only thing I've eaten today.
I'm sure I'll be OK tomorrow. Thanks.
Back to porn and crosses!
good for you , a positive attitude goes a long way and a good nights sleep , of course :)
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Mr Owl,
your expectations and pronouncements are none of my concern .
btw, Im guessing you and your woodland creature friends must be getting a strong 4G signal down there in the depths of the cold dark forest to be able to keep posting on here . Better get that fire lit though, it's going to be cold tonight
What a glorious demonstration of blind pig-ignorance of all things Pagan.
Still it was good for a laugh, which I always get from know-it-alls talking about things that they actually know S F A about.
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What a glorious demonstration of blind pig-ignorance of all things Pagan.
Still it was good for a laugh, which I always get from know-it-alls talking about things that they actually know S F A about.
You must have recognised your self in my post because I didn't mention 'Pagan' anywhere in it .
Your turn !
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You must have recognised your self in my post because I didn't mention 'Pagan' anywhere in it .
Your turn !
Hey, Dim-Wit - your comments are clearly directed at my being Pagan - "you and your woodland creature friends" and "in the depths of the cold dark forest" - can have no other meaning so don't try and dodge out of being caught out in gross ignorance.
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Like I said you gut-less little WUM - you are talking out of your a**e and you always use that 'your turn' type comment when you know you've been sussed WUMing nonsense trying to be clever.
Whatever - I'm leaving you to go happily and in blissful ignorance on your merry way as I have no intention of any further contact that might get me Modded for derailing and I will watch with interest for a post that you make that actually makes a valid contribution to a thread.
Any thread.
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Hey, Dim-Wit - your comments are clearly directed at my being Pagan - "you and your woodland creature friends" and "in the depths of the cold dark forest" - can have no other meaning so don't try and dodge out of being caught out in gross ignorance.
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do you not see your contradiction
' no other meaning ' or 'gross ignorance' which is it Mr Owl ? ::)
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Moderator:
Owlswing and Walter.
Thank you gents: I think we've all seen enough of this recent exchange between you both.
So let me suggest that we all amble quietly towards the general direction of the OP which, as I recall, had something to do with the jewellery worn by actors in porn films.
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They need a 'safe word' :D.
(Owly you get so cross all the time, Walter is only having a bit of fun winding you up - and you're the one who introduced pornography to the forum!)
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They need a 'safe word' :D.
(Owly you get so cross all the time, Walter is only having a bit of fun winding you up - and you're the one who introduced pornography to the forum!)
how you feeling today ? ;D ;D ;D don't laugh too much
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Weak and feeble. Been asleep most of day. Early this morning I tried to get up for work and husband kept pushing me back telling me, "You're not going anywhere!". Hot and cold, don't feel so sick though. Haven't eaten but will have more Heinz soup later :). I'm sure to be OK tomorrow. Thanks for asking.
Having been spurred on by this thread, I started watching a Louis Theroux documentary about the porn industry, left it after about fifteen minutes (to watch The Apprentice), and now can't get it back. Most enlightening from the bit I saw but gross! One young woman said, "I do A, I do O, I do everything", completely dead behind the eyes. Men using Cialis. Not very romantic. I didn't notice any crosses but was more interested in what was said and the faces.
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Weak and feeble. Been asleep most of day. Early this morning I tried to get up for work and husband kept pushing me back telling me, "You're not going anywhere!". Hot and cold, don't feel so sick though. Haven't eaten but will have more Heinz soup later :). I'm sure to be OK tomorrow. Thanks for asking.
Having been spurred on by this thread, I started watching a Louis Theroux documentary about the porn industry, left it after about fifteen minutes (to watch The Apprentice), and now can't get it back. Most enlightening from the bit I saw but gross! One young woman said, "I do A, I do O, I do everything", completely dead behind the eyes. Men using Cialis. Not very romantic. I didn't notice any crosses but was more interested in what was said and the faces.
you're welcome
yes I've been doing a bit of research today too ; bloody forgot to look for the crosses though! ;)
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I found the documentary again, will watch it sometime.