Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Walt Zingmatilder on January 28, 2018, 01:31:29 PM
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1; I thought this could be a regular thread
2; Theresa has apparently been put on capability procedures by the party.....again. A normal course of action would be to resign, rather than wait to get the heave ho, for one's own sake. We know that failure in her office is no barrier to future livelihood.
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Drink a glass of sherry.
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....pick her nose with a chainsaw?
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....pick her nose with a chainsaw?
Isn't it enough to call for her resignation rather than wish a gruesome death on her?
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I think nothing is the safest option.
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Isn't it enough to call for her resignation rather than wish a gruesome death on her?
Did I say that the said instrument had to be active (but, knowing Boris.....)
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Did I say that the said instrument had to be active (but, knowing Boris.....)
Why did you mention it at all if the chainsaw is not running.
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I think nothing is the safest option.
It almost always is.
If it is not necessary to do something, it is necessary to do nothing. Somebody said that, but I'm too lazy to find out who.
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....pick her nose with a chainsaw?
Classy.
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I think nothing is the safest option.
Tbh I think she needs to see a doctor. She’s doesn’t look well.
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Tbh I think she needs to see a doctor. She’s doesn’t look well.
Ooh - almost a Dr Who meme.
She does look tired.
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Ooh - almost a Dr Who meme.
She does look tired.
If I were her I'd invite Jeremy along, so that he can decide in advance if he wants to redecorate No.10.
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I think nothing is the safest option.
Do you mean that just carrying on in the way she is currently doing is the safest option?
Or do you mean that it doesn't matter what she does she is doomed?
Or both ... or either?
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Drink a glass of sherry.
Then break out the petit four.
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Do you mean that just carrying on in the way she is currently doing is the safest option?
Or do you mean that it doesn't matter what she does she is doomed?
Or both ... or either?
I meant for her personally. Not for the country.
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If I were her I'd invite Jeremy along, so that he can decide in advance if he wants to redecorate No.10.
There's no way I'm applying for that job.
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There's no way I'm applying for that job.
I would more likely vote for you than JC.
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There's no way I'm applying for that job.
I meant another Jeremy - but now you mention it, Jeremy, should you ever decide to challenge the Maybot then you have my vote.
Go for it!
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I meant another Jeremy - but now you mention it, Jeremy, should you ever decide to challenge the Maybot then you have my vote.
Go for it!
Whilst I don't have a hatred of Corbyn like I do of Trump, JC is every bit as dangerous. I also think May is pathetic, maybe I'm getting old but I'd would have favoured Alan Johnson or Kenneth Clark as PM, sadly time has run out for both.
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Whilst I don't have a hatred of Corbyn like I do of Trump, JC is every bit as dangerous. I also think May is pathetic, maybe I'm getting old but I'd would have favoured Alan Johnson or Kenneth Clark as PM, sadly time has run out for both.
Yep you are getting old. I say this because your thoughts aren't a million miles away from mine in this area, and I'm getting old too. Although I think stating that JC is every bit as dangerous as Trump is an exaggeration, my main worry with Corbyn is that he would be every bit as paralysed as May is currently.
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Yep you are getting old. I say this because your thoughts aren't a million miles away from mine in this area, and I'm getting old too. Although I think stating that JC is every bit as dangerous as Trump is an exaggeration, my main worry with Corbyn is that he would be every bit as paralysed as May is currently.
The paralysis is in the electorate. We have had a coalition with the Lib dems and tories, we had a brief Tory government heavily and potentially fatally in hock to UKIP (The phantom menace), and now we have a coalition Tory DUP. It looks suspiciously like the electorate want a coalition but FPTP seems to produce hastily concocted wanky ones.
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Yep you are getting old. I say this because your thoughts aren't a million miles away from mine in this area, and I'm getting old too. Although I think stating that JC is every bit as dangerous as Trump is an exaggeration, my main worry with Corbyn is that he would be every bit as paralysed as May is currently.
I have no doubt that Corbyn would immediately spend money, an emergency budget for the NHS he said that yesterday to Marr.
Where is the money coming from, according to Corbyn Corp Tax.
https://core-politics.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/general-election-2017-libdems-white-flag.html
Quote from IFS:-
Increasing rates will raise less revenue in the medium to long run because firms would respond by investing less in the UK. This in turn would depress economic activity and lead to fewer jobs and lower wages. There is a very high degree of uncertainty about how large these effects are but estimates suggest that they may be substantial. The potential size of these effects is an indication of why the OECD and others judge corporation tax to have a particularly damaging effect on economic growth.
So he'll immediately spend but Labour have a fiscal rule so they will have to raise taxes and their attempts to tax will not raise the revenue they need. So they will go after the richest, but the richest will leave, then the next richest and the next.
It is legitimate position to hold that we should pay more tax to fund the NHS etc, to pretend that it isn't your position in order that you can get into power is a worry.
Did agree with him on homeless issue though!
His answers to questions on capitalism were evasive, pair that with a Chancellor who's pastime is 'generally fermenting the overthrow of capitalism' and yeah I'd be terrified of a Corbyn government.
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Where is the money coming from,
I suggest you look at the Tories borrowing record.
Magic Money trees abound.
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I suggest you look at the Tories borrowing record.
Magic Money trees abound.
I'm reminded that someone once said we get the politicians we deserve.
I raise a legitimate concern about Corbyn and the defence is zero but it might get a round of applause on Question Time.
Lets all sing 'Ohhh Jeremy Corbyn' and feel superior because we are the good guys.
I think Kinnock's son will have to use his Dad's Bournemouth speech from 1985 in 2025. :)
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Yep you are getting old. I say this because your thoughts aren't a million miles away from mine in this area, and I'm getting old too. Although I think stating that JC is every bit as dangerous as Trump is an exaggeration, my main worry with Corbyn is that he would be every bit as paralysed as May is currently.
Ken Clarke is about the only Tory left in Parliament whom I might actually vote for. My concern about Corbyn is not so much the man himself,(although I am no fan of seventies beardism) but the Militant Tendency mob behind "Momentum". No I am not suggesting that Jezza is a supporter of Militant/RSL, my worry is that the Trots will take over the party change the rules, and then force Corbyn out in favour of one of their own.
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Ken Clarke is about the only Tory left in Parliament whom I might actually vote for. My concern about Corbyn is not so much the man himself,(although I am no fan of seventies beardism) but the Militant Tendency mob behind "Momentum". No I am not suggesting that Jezza is a supporter of Militant/RSL, my worry is that the Trots will take over the party change the rules, and then force Corbyn out in favour of one of their own.
I think it will be Momentum versus Moggmentum.
There is an awfully bad track record at forcing Jeremy Corbyn out.......and indeed any labour leader. The tories dispatch leaders though with alacrity,
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I think it will be Momentum versus Moggmentum.
There is an awfully bad track record at forcing Jeremy Corbyn out.......and indeed any labour leader. The tories dispatch leaders though with alacrity,
I can only hope that Mom v Mogg would result in a Lib Dem revival, but so far that does not seem to be happening :(
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Ken Clarke is about the only Tory left in Parliament whom I might actually vote for. My concern about Corbyn is not so much the man himself,(although I am no fan of seventies beardism) but the Militant Tendency mob behind "Momentum". No I am not suggesting that Jezza is a supporter of Militant/RSL, my worry is that the Trots will take over the party change the rules, and then force Corbyn out in favour of one of their own.
Readers may find this interesting.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/claire-kober-quits-labour-left-jeremy-corbyn-victory-haringey-council-leader-latest-a8185101.html
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No I am not suggesting that Jezza is a supporter of Militant/RSL, my worry is that the Trots will take over the party change the rules, and then force Corbyn out in favour of one of their own.
Corbyn is unassailable at the moment. I think a leadership challenge from the left would suffer the same fate as the leadership challenge from the right suffered. I think the danger of him winning is that his government would descend into chaos because he is utterly useless. Of course governments in chaos seems to be par for the course these days.
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Corbyn is unassailable at the moment. I think a leadership challenge from the left would suffer the same fate as the leadership challenge from the right suffered. I think the danger of him winning is that his government would descend into chaos because he is utterly useless. Of course governments in chaos seems to be par for the course these days.
Yep, I'm not seeing how a left challenge would work. Those further to the left than Corbyn in the Labour Party are a small minority. In terms of the PLP, those further to the left wouldn't have the numbers to nominate a challenger.
I disagree that he is utterly useless he did win two leadership victories, have a large increase in membership, and do reasonably well in historic terms from the election base in 2015. That said, I think he's very limited and given the utter utter shambles of the current govt, that he is neck and neck in the polls is a huge failing.
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I should think that Corbyn is playing a waiting game, in the expectation that the Tories will implode into civil war, becoming unelectable. Hence, the ambiguity on Brexit.
I have no idea if a different leader would do better, presumably this would mean someone more right-wing and/or anti-Brexit. In the old saying, who? The obvious candidate is Starmer, who is full of charisma (sarcasm).
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I should think that Corbyn is playing a waiting game, in the expectation that the Tories will implode into civil war, becoming unelectable. Hence, the ambiguity on Brexit.
I have no idea if a different leader would do better, presumably this would mean someone more right-wing and/or anti-Brexit. In the old saying, who? The obvious candidate is Starmer, who is full of charisma (sarcasm).
Be fair, Starmer seemed to be a better DPP than does the current incumbent.
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Apparently if Mrs May stops being PM she could go to the Lords as Baroness Dungurning.
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I looked up the odds on next Labour leader, expecting Starmer to be frontrunner; in fact, it's Thornberry. I forgot about her, which is odd, as I like her. She operates in left field, ha ha ha.
It is amusing that the right wing, which predicted Corbyn to get hammered in the election, are now saying that Labour would have won with a different leader, and would be miles ahead in the polls with a different leader. I think Yvette Cooper has slipped down the table, so I don't know who their heir apparent is.
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I disagree that he is utterly useless he did win two leadership victories, have a large increase in membership, and do reasonably well in historic terms from the election base in 2015. That said, I think he's very limited and given the utter utter shambles of the current govt, that he is neck and neck in the polls is a huge failing.
Winning the leadership election is a different proposition to running the party - and the government. Why did he even have to fight a challenge to his leadership? Because he failed to lead the PLP effectively.
Given the state of the Tory Party following the referendum, Labour should have been close enough in the polls to stop Theresa May from even calling a general election. Labour should have been in a position to win any general election called in 2017. Even now, as you say, they are only neck and neck in the polls. As the leader, Corbyn must shoulder the responsibility.
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It is amusing that the right wing, which predicted Corbyn to get hammered in the election, are now saying that Labour would have won with a different leader, and would be miles ahead in the polls with a different leader. I think Yvette Cooper has slipped down the table, so I don't know who their heir apparent is.
I think it is absolutely true. If they had a leader of the calibre of say John Smith or Tony Blair or Neil Kinnock, they'd be streets ahead.
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I think it is absolutely true. If they had a leader of the calibre of say John Smith or Tony Blair or Neil Kinnock, they'd be streets ahead.
I might as well say that if the Tories were led by Churchill, they would be doing better. Who are the right wing hopefuls in present day Labour, never mind the corpses? Well, Yvette Cooper used to be it, but I don't know who else. Chuka Umunna, I suppose - would they be streets ahead with him? Would the Labour vote have increased by 10%? I think a lot of activists would walk away.
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I might as well say that if the Tories were led by Churchill, they would be doing better.
Very possibly. The fact that Labour lacks proper leadership is not related in any way to the fact that the Tories are in similar straits.
Who are the right wing hopefuls in present day Labour, never mind the corpses?
There are none. They were purged along with New Labour. That doesn't alter the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is crap.
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Winning the leadership election is a different proposition to running the party - and the government. Why did he even have to fight a challenge to his leadership? Because he failed to lead the PLP effectively.
Given the state of the Tory Party following the referendum, Labour should have been close enough in the polls to stop Theresa May from even calling a general election. Labour should have been in a position to win any general election called in 2017. Even now, as you say, they are only neck and neck in the polls. As the leader, Corbyn must shoulder the responsibility.
Yes the polls. Is May as high as she is because part of her poll is a cruel lie, like those which said Miliband was neck and Neck with Cameron? Talking of which May' odd mandibular articulations far outnumber Miliband's unfortunate encounter with a bacon sandwich.
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Very possibly. The fact that Labour lacks proper leadership is not related in any way to the fact that the Tories are in similar straits.
There are none. They were purged along with New Labour. That doesn't alter the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is crap.
I'm not sure they were purged, didn't they all resign in a bid to topple Corbyn? A detail exploited by Lidington who cruelly reminded Thornbury at PMQ.
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The primary qualification of any candidate for leadership of the Conservative Party for the last twenty years or so was that his or her name was not Kenneth Clarke.
Hague, Howard, Duncan Smith and Cameron all possessed this qualification and I suspect that much of the state of the party currently is the consequence of the conspiracies of right-wing paleolithic throwbacks to prevent Clarke's accession.
It is interesting to note that even as he approaches his eightieth year, Ken Clarke still has more life in him than many of the brain-dead nonentities sitting on the Government back benches.
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I should think that Corbyn is playing a waiting game, in the expectation that the Tories will implode into civil war, becoming unelectable. Hence, the ambiguity on Brexit.
I would think Corbyn is faced with begging centrists desperate for Labour to be clear on Brexit (i.e. to stay in), the majority of Labour voters want to stay in yet Corbyn's ' ambiguity on Brexit' is because of what?
I'd suggest because he actually wants Brexit.
The Tories are in the worst state I can ever remember, but across the political spectrum from the DUP to Nick Clegg most are terrified of what a hard left Govt would do to the country.
Whenever I've tried to engage with Corbyn supporters and raise points they only seem to be able to counter with 'yeah but the Tories suck'.
I have no idea if a different leader would do better, presumably this would mean someone more right-wing and/or anti-Brexit. In the old saying, who? The obvious candidate is Starmer, who is full of charisma (sarcasm).
I have no idea either, Corbyn enjoys support from the hard left, the populist vote and reluctant centre left. I think a centre left candidate would lose a lot.
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IME Corbynists counter any argument with 'Yes, but Tony Blair'.
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The ones I know tend to ask, who else? As I said, Starmer is presumably first choice as a competent administrator, if Corbyn falls under a bus, and I suppose the left would favour Thornberry. I haven't heard anybody actually say that they would have raised the Labour vote by 10%, although there are plenty saying that Labour would be ahead now with somebody else. Yes, but who? I suppose it's Chuka Umunna then. Zzzz.
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I'd suggest because he actually wants Brexit
This is a possibility. There is a Brexit train of thought within the left that the EU is some kind of capitalist bulwark against the left generally. Not a view I share but it is definitely out there.
Indeed I suspect one or two posters on here think that too.
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Some Labour people seem to think that if they explicitly come out as anti-Brexit, they will lose votes, presumably Labour leave voters. I don't know if that is backed up by analysis. But I suppose the leadership think that in the recent election they garnered both Brexit voters (because Labour were saying they would accept the referendum), and also Remain voters (because they figured that May was going for hard Brexit). This is what I meant by ambiguity. I don't know where this goes now, as Starmer seems to be making noises about the single market, and there is generally an anti-hard Brexit atmosphere in Labour circles, except for the weirdos. I see Corbyn as plugging anti-austerity, which probably works quite well. Plus, of course, the Napoleonic line, why interrupt your enemy when they're making a bollocks of things.
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This is a possibility. There is a Brexit train of thought within the left that the EU is some kind of capitalist bulwark against the left generally. Not a view I share but it is definitely out there.
Indeed I suspect one or two posters on here think that too.
Yep.
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The ones I know tend to ask, who else? As I said, Starmer is presumably first choice as a competent administrator, if Corbyn falls under a bus, and I suppose the left would favour Thornberry. I haven't heard anybody actually say that they would have raised the Labour vote by 10%, although there are plenty saying that Labour would be ahead now with somebody else. Yes, but who? I suppose it's Chuka Umunna then. Zzzz.
Thornberry....far more charismatic. Hopefully she realises with her spat with Lidington how hard tory resistance will be.
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Well, Emily is a tough cookie, and rather wacky, which I like. In a pub-fight, I would pick her over Corbyn as my marrer. But she probably alienates a lot of people, very posh.
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If all you cared about was a Labour Govt. (not saying that this is anyone here but some other hypothetical person) then someone like Chuka would be a good choice.
As far as I’m aware elections are won by the floating voters, as one I had to hold my nose and vote Tory last GE, would have switched had Labour had a centrist leading the party.
It was like May wanted to lose, ‘lets rethink fox hunting’, half expected her to claim she was thinking about equal marriage or votes for women.
I can’t vote for a dishonest socialist, be honest ‘we want to spend billions on the NHS but you are going to have to pay for it’ – fine I could vote for that after consideration. Pretending only the rich will be paying for it no thanks.
Actually, Corbyn is keeping May in power, I suspect the DUP would almost agree to almost anything if it meant Corbyn in No.10.
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Well, Emily is a tough cookie, and rather wacky, which I like. In a pub-fight, I would pick her over Corbyn as my marrer. But she probably alienates a lot of people, very posh.
I like her too, never thought of her as 'posh'.
Mrs May should, imo, have a lie down in a comfortable, peaceful place for at least the next 24 hours (rehab?) - much longer would be better for her health but I doubt she can manage that.
Jakswan: It was like May wanted to lose, ‘lets rethink fox hunting’, half expected her to claim she was thinking about equal marriage or votes for women.
Yes!
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Theresa may resign, but I hope she doesn't, as she is Labour's best chance of winning the next election.