Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on February 14, 2018, 10:13:27 PM
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Again
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43066226
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I nearly posted a thread on this when the story first broke, but couldn’t think of anything useful to say. More young people dead but we know nothing will change.
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I Know what you mean, I just thought that saying anything was better than getting to the stage of just letting the news pass by because it's happened so frequently. Even then this is the sixth school shooting this year in the U.S. with someone injured or killed but the others weren't serious enough to get the coverage here.
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But the Constitutional Right to Bear Arms is sacrosanct ... What will it take to change this?
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I Know what you mean, I just thought that saying anything was better than getting to the stage of just letting the news pass by because it's happened so frequently. Even then this is the sixth school shooting this year in the U.S. with someone injured or killed but the others weren't serious enough to get the coverage here.
Yes I know, and I agree.
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Another terrible gun tragedy! Why can't the Americans see that gun ownership is the problem? If Trump had his way even babies would carry a gun, he is so supportive of the right for all Americans to bear arms. >:(
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Another terrible gun tragedy! Why can't the Americans see that gun ownership is the problem? If Trump had his way even babies would carry a gun, he is so supportive of the right for all Americans to bear arms. >:(
No, he’s supportive of doing whatever it takes to remain in power, and for him that means pandering to the gun lobby. I’ve never heard anything from him that suggests he’s a gun fanatic.
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No, he’s supportive of doing whatever it takes to remain in power, and for him that means pandering to the gun lobby. I’ve never heard anything from him that suggests he’s a gun fanatic.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221
That seems like the work of a gun fanatic to me.
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221
That seems like the work of a gun fanatic to me.
No, that’s the work of a power fanatic.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41478293
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No, that’s the work of a power fanatic.
He is still fanatical about guns, I have heard him on the topic.
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Yes I'd agree Rhiannon - he is just playing to his base. He doesn't believe it and he knows that gun control is the right thing to do, but he can't risk alienating the people who got him elected.
It's just sad that his grasping for power is going to cost many, many more people their lives.
We will be back here again all too soon shaking our heads at the self delusion of a large part of the population of the USA, which leads to such carnage on their streets and in their schools.
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He is still fanatical about guns, I have heard him on the topic.
Did you look st the link? A gun fanatic who was once in favour of gun restriction? Don’t think so. But like many narcissists he knows how to play to his target audience and be very convincing.
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Oh, America, what will it take to make you understand?
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Sadly, this sort of story from the US is not even newsworthy.
It's just 'situation normal' for them.
There will probably be another to follow somewhere else this year, then next, then next, then next ......
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Sadly, this sort of story from the US is not even newsworthy.
It's just 'situation normal' for them.
There will probably be another to follow somewhere else this year, then next, then next, then next ......
It was the second item of news on the Today Programme.
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It was the second item of news on the Today Programme.
But the other 5 school shootings where people were killed or injured this year weren't - this gets the headlines because it's a high death toll. The basic subject isn't news
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But the other 5 school shootings where people were killed or injured this year weren't - this gets the headlines because it's a high death toll. The basic subject isn't news
I was suggesting that the subject wasn't the first item on the news because it is so common in the US. :o
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Dear America,
Damn!! How do you even start to get your head around this stupid second amendment, I still feel that they should be asking the actual gun owners what action should be taken to prevent this woeful waste of life.
Every time I read about this kind of tragedy I always feel that America is a country that has never fully woken up, it kind of still lives in the past, has anyone read Jon Sopels "If only they didn't speak English" after I read it my gut feeling was that it is a country held together with sticking plasters, it feels to me that racism is endemic in that country, half the country thinks the Adam and Eve myth is actual fact.
I have never wanted to visit this country but it has always fascinated me, the huge size, how do you even govern a country that size, anyway forgive my waffling, but this kind of tragedy always leaves me empty with no answers.
Gonnagle.
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I suspect that those in support of the gun lobby would say the answer is more guns - that's been the usual response,
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I suspect that those in support of the gun lobby would say the answer is more guns - that's been the usual response,
Agreed. :o
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Yes, if only there'd been some teachers who were armed, they would have stopped it - yeah, right. Still, Trump sent thoughts and prayers, so that makes it alright.
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Yes, if only there'd been some teachers who were armed, they would have stopped it - yeah, right. Still, Trump sent thoughts and prayers, so that makes it alright.
I am sure the bereaved families feel so much better now! ::)
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Gonners
but this kind of tragedy always leaves me empty with no answers.
Waffle away, I suspect that you are not alone in that thought.
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I heard an interesting comparison from an American writer, that one guy put a bomb in his shoe to blow up a jet, and now everybody has to take their shoes off in airports. School shootings are almost weekly occurrences, and nothing happens. Still, there's no point in these comparisons, as we are dealing with an irrational and sentimental sub-stratum in US society, not amenable to reason.
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Damn!! How do you even start to get your head around this stupid second amendment, I still feel that they should be asking the actual gun owners what action should be taken to prevent this woeful waste of life.
Every time I read about this kind of tragedy I always feel that America is a country that has never fully woken up, it kind of still lives in the past.
Exactly.
And 'Fox News' just said this is the deadliest school shooting "in the history of Broward County."
Needless to say, only in America do individual counties have histories of school shootings.
>:(
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It’s not a guns issue, it’s a mental health one, according to the President.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/15/donald-trump-florida-shooting-speech-mental-health-gun-control
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It’s not a guns issue, it’s a mental health one, according to the President.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/15/donald-trump-florida-shooting-speech-mental-health-gun-control
Like one should believe anything that comes out of the mouth of that clown! >:(
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It’s not a guns issue, it’s a mental health one, according to the President.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/15/donald-trump-florida-shooting-speech-mental-health-gun-control
So as a practical measure then. the first thing one would do is make it harder for people with mental health issues to get guns, and since it's hard to determine that in advance, you would then vastly reduce the access to guns for everyone.
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So as a practical measure then. the first thing one would do is make it harder for people with mental health issues to get guns, and since it's hard to determine that in advance, you would then vastly reduce the access to guns for everyone.
Agreed, but it isn't likely to happen whilst Trump is president.
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It’s not a guns issue, it’s a mental health one, according to the President.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/15/donald-trump-florida-shooting-speech-mental-health-gun-control
How perverse. To rescind his predecessor's attempt to reduce the ability of people with mental problems to obtain firearms and then to say that there should be such control.
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How perverse. To rescind his predecessor's attempt to reduce the ability of people with mental problems to obtain firearms and then to say that there should be such control.
That says it all about Trump's mentality. :o
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I’m rather sickened by the casual assumption that this man has MH issues in the first place. The likelihood is that he hasn’t. Limiting access to guns for people with MH issues is generally - although not exclusively - to protect themselves from suicide. It is possible that Trump views the suicides of the desperate as a useful step in making America great again.
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Is it a casual assumption? Or is it a diagnosis that to engage in such an act is what we would define as demonstrative of having a mental health issue even if it is not the sole or prime cause?
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I’m rather sickened by the casual assumption that this man has MH issues in the first place. The likelihood is that he hasn’t. Limiting access to guns for people with MH issues is generally - although not exclusively - to protect themselves from suicide. It is possible that Trump views the suicides of the desperate as a useful step in making America great again.
He went into a school and shot and killed people. He's got some kind of mental health issue, even if it's not technically a disease.
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It would appear that guy is definitely mentally ill. Allowing someone like him to own a firearm/s is bonkers!
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It would appear that guy is definitely mentally ill. Allowing someone like him to own a firearm/s is bonkers!
Not just him and his ilk, anyone. It should be as difficult to own a gun in the USA as it is in the UK.
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I’m rather sickened by the casual assumption that this man has MH issues in the first place. The likelihood is that he hasn’t. Limiting access to guns for people with MH issues is generally - although not exclusively - to protect themselves from suicide. It is possible that Trump views the suicides of the desperate as a useful step in making America great again.
On the IS board, there is a lot of information from the US posters. Apparently the woman who adopted him has had to call the cops out very many times during his life, including for abuse of her.
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Not just him and his ilk, anyone. It should be as difficult to own a gun in the USA as it is in the UK.
Agreed. But surely in the US, even they should be able to see that allowing someone with mental health issues to own a gun is bonkers!
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Agreed. But surely in the US, even they should be able to see that allowing someone with mental health issues to own a gun is bonkers!
You would certainly think so.
Re. restricting gun ownership: I don't think the US could realistically go from where it is to where the UK is in one go: the nuts would go on killing sprees all over the country. Checks on would-be buyers shouldn't be impossible, though.
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You would certainly think so.
Re. restricting gun ownership: I don't think the US could realistically go from where it is to where the UK is in one go: the nuts would go on killing sprees all over the country. Checks on would-be buyers shouldn't be impossible, though.
Yes - that is the problem. There are so many guns, it is not comparable to the UK at all, or indeed Australia that managed to turn things around in the 90's, as there were many fewer guns in circulation there.
Stronger checks and licencing has got to be a starting point surely.
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I think that a starting point should be a re-consideration of the Second Amendment - perhaps with a view to removing it. The circumstances and context of its original drafting disappeared long ago.
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I think that a starting point should be a re-consideration of the Second Amendment - perhaps with a view to removing it. The circumstances and context of its original drafting disappeared long ago.
Sentiment gets in the way of that. Some youngsters outside the school were asking why the right to bear arms has become the right for a kid to legally own a semi automatic rifle.
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Let's hope this protest has some effect
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43105701
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Good!
Trump is blaming the FBI for the shooting now.
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Good!
Trump is blaming the FBI for the shooting now.
What a surprise. ::)
It does appear that there is the beginning of a backlash against the NRA and far too liberal gun ownership.
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According to my girls the view of young Americans on social media is that they should be allowed to arm themselves at school. I guess that if you have a government that won’t protect you then protecting yourselves seems like the best option.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43105701
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43105701
This was posted earlier.
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This was posted earlier.
Sorry I didn't see it.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43105701
That’s not social media. Check out Instagram and tumblr. It’s scary.
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That’s not social media. Check out Instagram and tumblr. It’s scary.
No thanks.
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Now it might be a solution but it seems to fly in the face of the lack of school shootings elsewhere. It reads like distraction to avoid responsibility
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/florida-shooting-schools-arm-teachers-guns-law-trump-education-secretary-a8213736.html
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Now it might be a solution but it seems to fly in the face of the lack of school shootings elsewhere. It reads like distraction to avoid responsibility
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/florida-shooting-schools-arm-teachers-guns-law-trump-education-secretary-a8213736.html
It's an indication of the desperate position the US is in. The right answer is gun control but the paralysis induced by the Second Amendment and the NRA means means you can't do that and the squeeze on public services caused by Republican tax cuts means that the proper law enforcement authorities are too overstretched to provide protection. The same squeeze ironically also means that the teachers will not be armed because the schools can't afford it.
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It's an indication of the desperate position the US is in. The right answer is gun control but the paralysis induced by the Second Amendment and the NRA means means you can't do that and the squeeze on public services caused by Republican tax cuts means that the proper law enforcement authorities are too overstretched to provide protection. The same squeeze ironically also means that the teachers will not be armed because the schools can't afford it.
Given the numbers of guns, 'Give a teacher a gun day' would cover that surely?
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http://newsthump.com/2018/02/20/teacher-with-dream-of-nourishing-young-minds-fortunately-also-quite-keen-on-learning-how-to-kill-people/
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I couldn't decide whether that was genuine or spoof.
The American mindset is unbelievable - the more guns there are the safer we shall be.
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Now on the news today - I hear that the armed school guard hid behind a pillar and did not go into the school to confront the killer.
It seems he has resigned. This makes the whole thing even more sad.
ETA Having re-read this, I realise that I have made it sound as if the resignation itself was sad which of course is not the case. I wonder how the officer concerned will be able to live with himself.
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The orange-haired twittering arsehole believes that the more guns there are the safer everyone us.
His opinion that teachers should carry guns so that "bad people with guns" will be killed by "good people with guns". One consequence of this is that it will make teachers the first target of any rogue gunman - whether they are armed or not. The more guns that are around the greater is the chance that someone who is harmless will be shot by accident.
Another thing which comes out of this appalling business is how little value appears to be given to life in the USA. Trump freely talks about killing as a first response to perceptions of danger.
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I think Trump believes that it is good for him if he says he believes in more guns rather than actually believing it.
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I think Trump believes that it is good for him if he says he believes in more guns rather than actually believing it.
Hearing about the gun people's financial backing of trump, their orchestration of insults against Hilary Clinton, and the close links between them and Trump is sickening. That news was on PM yesterday afternoon.
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It seems that a policeman was within intervention with his gun within 90 seconds but for some reason did not intervene. This puts a huge question mark on the Trump/NRA thesis I would have thought.
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Some teachers wanting things other than guns
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43154487