Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Theism and Atheism => Topic started by: Steve H on March 30, 2018, 01:43:40 PM
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They spend a great deal of time and energy being sarky at believers' expense, and spouting dribs and drabs of philosophy almost as though they know what they're talking about, so we all know what they don't believe in, but what are their positive beliefs, and why do we never hear of them?
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They spend a great deal of time and energy being sarky at believers' expense, and spouting dribs and drabs of philosophy almost as though they know what they're talking about, so we all know what they don't believe in, but what are their positive beliefs, and why do we never hear of them?
Let's taken example of a non religious poster, torridon. In his posts to Alan Burns there is a great deal about why he believes, so I suggest you owe him an apology for your lazy generalisation.
How about another , enki? When he was asked by gonnagle about being an atheist, he gave two lovely written posts; you can see them in the Best Bits. So that's another non religious poster you owe an apology to.
How about a third, Dicky Underpants, who posts interesting and informed posts on a variety of matters, and shows a great deal more knowledge of the Bible than a few of the Christians in here. Another for you to apologise to.
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Let's taken example of a non religious poster, torridon. In his posts to Alan Burns there is a great deal about why he believes, so I suggest you owe him an apology for your lazy generalisation.
How about another , enki? When he was asked by gonnagle about being an atheist, he gave two lovely written posts; you can see them in the Best Bits. So that's another non religious poster you owe an apology to.
How about a third, Dicky Underpants, who posts interesting and informed posts on a variety of matters, and shows a great deal more knowledge of the Bible than a few of the Christians in here. Another for you to apologise to.
Steve H is not the first person to raise this.
I think though you exaggerate the openness of non believers on here. Enki for instance is not the only poster here.........and of course no question seems unaccompanied by a demand for an apology from you.
How often have we seen retreat into the ''atheism is merely the disbelief in gods''schtick for instance.
Why don't you apologise on behalf of the palpable religionethics posse?
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Steve H is not the first person to raise this.
I think though you exaggerate the openness of non believers on here. Enki for instance is not the only poster here.........and of course no question seems unaccompanied by a demand for an apology from you.
How often have we seen retreat into the ''atheism is merely the disbelief in gods''schtick for instance.
Why don't you apologise on behalf of the palpable religionethics posse?
So I cite three posters and you post something that implies I only cited one. Is lying just something you cannot help doing?
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Positive beliefs about what? Well, I like chocolate, and football. Errm, what else would there be? I like Egyptian cartouches, very beautiful. Tired now.
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Positive beliefs about what? Well, I like chocolate, and football. Errm, what else would there be? I like Egyptian cartouches, very beautiful. Tired now.
'Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.'
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Positive beliefs about what? Well, I like chocolate, and football. Errm, what else would there be? I like Egyptian cartouches, very beautiful. Tired now.
You missed off posting trite replies.
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You missed off posting trite replies.
As opposed to lying?
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Let's taken example of a non religious poster, torridon. In his posts to Alan Burns there is a great deal about why he believes, so I suggest you owe him an apology for your lazy generalisation.
How about another , enki? When he was asked by gonnagle about being an atheist, he gave two lovely written posts; you can see them in the Best Bits. So that's another non religious poster you owe an apology to.
How about a third, Dicky Underpants, who posts interesting and informed posts on a variety of matters, and shows a great deal more knowledge of the Bible than a few of the Christians in here. Another for you to apologise to.
OK, ok, some of them spend a great deal of time...
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You missed off posting trite replies.
Well, I am trite. Or really, my life is trite. What else is it supposed to be? Some kind of grandiose vision? Too old and too tired for that now.
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Well, I am trite. Or really, my life is trite. What else is it supposed to be? Some kind of grandiose vision? Too old and too tired for that now.
:'(
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They spend a great deal of time and energy being sarky at believers' expense, and spouting dribs and drabs of philosophy almost as though they know what they're talking about, so we all know what they don't believe in, but what are their positive beliefs, and why do we never hear of them?
That's a reflection of the nature of this forum, surely, people who want to discuss RE issues can come here to do it. The only common denominator of beliefs among atheists is the lack of a belief in gods. Outside that pretty much anything goes. I've got my tastes and preferences like everyone. I try, as a point of principle perhaps, to avoid belief systems; they fix the mind and play into tribalism imo.
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OK, ok, some of them spend a great deal of time...
not much of an apology.
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I'm not sure what Steve is after. Some kind of view of what reality is? I expect there would be a wide variation, and quite a lot of people saying 'don't know'. As I said earlier, as I got older, I have believed in fewer and fewer things, they seem like unnecessary baggage. As Camus said, football provides plenty of moral lessons.
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Steve
I tried posting exactly what I believe, I am Pagan, Priest and witch, and apart from, I think, two people, all I got from the usual suspects (plus a couple who are no longer on the forum), was sarcasm, belittlement and very bad jokes.
I hold my beliefs as hard as any Christian, but I, unlike the Christians, am able to state categorically that my Pagan beliefs are FAITH NOT FACT! This is something that the Christians seem congenitally incapable of realizing applies equally to their beliefs - beliefs NOT FACTS!
You only have to look at the number of threads on this forum that turn into endless screeds of the the same "The bible is the truth, undiluted and unchallengable.
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I'm not sure what Steve is after. Some kind of view of what reality is? I expect there would be a wide variation, and quite a lot of people saying 'don't know'. As I said earlier, as I got older, I have believed in fewer and fewer things, they seem like unnecessary baggage. As Camus said, football provides plenty of moral lessons.
Are you abandoning ''saying'' for ''being''?
or the antitheist standard belief. ''We don't know what it is but we know it isn't God?''
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I believe in love, proper love, not obsession or neediness or ownership masquerading as it, but proper love where you want the best for the other, daft woman that I am.
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Hard to know what to cite: my family, my friends, motorbikes, guitars (inc. banjos), good company and interesting conversations, good beer/whisky and horse racing: that will do to be going on with.
Oh yes - there is one more: that as many people as possible should be happy and safe.
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I am far from perfect, but I do my best to help others as best as I can. My family is very important to me, the help and support they have given us since my husband became brain damaged is immeasurable. I am very grateful I have my hobbies, which give me pleasure, especially my artwork which people are kind enough to say they like. :)
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I'm not sure what Steve is after. Some kind of view of what reality is? I expect there would be a wide variation, and quite a lot of people saying 'don't know'. As I said earlier, as I got older, I have believed in fewer and fewer things, they seem like unnecessary baggage. As Camus said, football provides plenty of moral lessons.
For a theist, God fills an enormous explanatory space. What's it all about, why are we here. Subtract God, surely something else must be pulled in to fill the vacuum, I suppose.
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For a theist, God fills an enormous explanatory space. What's it all about, why are we here. Subtract God, surely something else must be pulled in to fill the vacuum, I suppose.
I was once a theist, and I’m ok with there being a vacuum now. I have to find my own meaning and take responsibility and it’s ok. I don’t believe stuff, just... live, I guess.
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For a theist, God fills an enormous explanatory space. What's it all about, why are we here. Subtract God, surely something else must be pulled in to fill the vacuum, I suppose.
I used to be a Christian, I was just wondering if I feel a vacuum, not really. I thought that religion fills an emotional space, rather than an intellectual one, but I'm not sure what the emotional space would be. I suppose yearning, maybe, also something to do with love.
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Asked about what they believe the thread seems IMHO to be morphing into another what Christians believe.
I don't think you guys can help yourselves.
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Asked about what they believe the thread seems IMHO to be morphing into another what Christians believe.
I don't think you guys can help yourselves.
Stop lying
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Asked about what they believe the thread seems IMHO to be morphing into another what Christians believe.
I don't think you guys can help yourselves.
That is because Steve asked a rather open question, so we're having to speculate what he meant. I think Wiggs and Rhiannon gave rather interesting responses anyway.
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That is because Steve asked a rather open question, so we're having to speculate what he meant. I think Wiggs and Rhiannon gave rather interesting responses anyway.
I seem to recall noting that Rhiannon found God did not meet her specifications. I know nothing about Wigginhall's former Christianity.
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I seem to recall noting that Rhiannon found God did not meet her specifications. I know nothing about Wigginhall's former Christianity.
That's rather cheap. I think you could do better than that.
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That's rather cheap. I think you could do better than that.
How do you mean cheap?
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I seem to recall noting that Rhiannon found God did not meet her specifications. I know nothing about Wigginhall's former Christianity.
Lying about Rhiannon. Why do you lie continually?
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I used to be a Christian, I was just wondering if I feel a vacuum, not really. I thought that religion fills an emotional space, rather than an intellectual one, but I'm not sure what the emotional space would be. I suppose yearning, maybe, also something to do with love.
I felt relief when I lost my faith, which had been imposed on me as a child, with threats of hell if I didn't, 'get right with god'.
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Lying about Rhiannon. Why do you lie continually?
That's my opinion. She is quite able to refute if she sees fit to.
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That's my opinion. She is quite able to refute if she sees fit to.
It's specifically not what she has said so is misrepresentation and lying. Something you have done constantly on this thread on a day to commemorate the supposed crucifixion of your supposed saviour. You might as well have shoved that alleged spear into his side with your lying.
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It's specifically not what she has said so is misrepresentation and lying. Something you have done constantly on this thread on a day to commemorate the supposed crucifixion of your supposed saviour. You might as well have shoved that alleged spear into his side with your lying.
Linguistic totalitarianism has to be fought 24/7.
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Linguistic totalitarianism has to be fought 24/7.
By lying and betraying your values, and if you really believe in the values of your supposed saviour, hitting the hammer to nail him to that cross?
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not much of an apology.
I'm not jumping through hoops for you!
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I'm not jumping through hoops for you!
Who is asking you to jump through hoops? You made a lazy generalization about non religious people and you seem unwilling to apologise for that.
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It's specifically not what she has said so is misrepresentation and lying. Something you have done constantly on this thread on a day to commemorate the supposed crucifixion of your supposed saviour. You might as well have shoved that alleged spear into his side with your lying.
I seem to recall Rhiannon mentioning that she expected certain help from God and did not find it forthcoming.
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I seem to recall Rhiannon mentioning that she expected certain help from God and did not find it forthcoming.
No, she didn't find an answer to a call. The absence of a god was what she found. It wasn't a rejection. Nothing about expectation, nothing bout help. So if you want to apologise to Rhiannon for your misrepresentation, go ahead. It will be a start. Yohcan then just on this thread follow up withapoligising to torridin, and then me.
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No, she didn't find an answer to a call. The absence of a god was what she found. It wasn't a rejection. Nothing about expectation, nothing bout help. So if you want to apologise to Rhiannon for your misrepresentation, go ahead. It will be a start. Yohcan then just on this thread follow up withapoligising to torridin, and then me.
I'd rather cancel my membership of this forum. Can that be arranged?
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I'd rather cancel my membership of this forum. Can that be arranged?
You don't have to log on.
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That word, "Lying', being used inappropriately again. NS you need to lie down. You don't have to log on either.
As for apologies, I've yet to see an atheist on here, not all but one of the coterie - apologise to someone of faith for all the sneering, sarcastic, vile remarks they make to them, too many to pinpoint.
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That word, "Lying', being used inappropriately again. NS you need to lie down. You don't have to log on either.
As for apologies, I've yet to see an atheist on here, not all but one of the coterie - apologise to someone of faith for all the sneering, sarcastic, vile remarks they make to them, too many to pinpoint.
no, Vlad has misrepresented what people have said on this thread. Completely appropriate.
What coterie? And what vile remarks? Have you reported them?
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That word, "Lying', being used inappropriately again. NS you need to lie down. You don't have to log on either.
As for apologies, I've yet to see an atheist on here, not all but one of the coterie - apologise to someone of faith for all the sneering, sarcastic, vile remarks they make to them, too many to pinpoint.
Many of the highly unpleasant remarks are made by theists, more so than non believers, imo.
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Many of the highly unpleasant remarks are made by theists, more so than non believers, imo.
Any evidence for the assertion?
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Any evidence for the assertion?
Vlad has been giving it large in a most unpleasant way today. SteveH is often rude to non believers. I think I am right in saying that most of the posters who have been permanently banned from the forum were theists because of their reprehensible behaviour.
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Vlad has been giving it large in a most unpleasant way today. SteveH is often rude to non believers. I think I am right in saying that most of the posters who have been permanently banned from the forum were theists because of their reprehensible behaviour.
More assertion.
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More assertion.
An assertion with evidence to support it surely?
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An assertion with evidence to support it surely?
No. You have stated that theists make more unpleasant remarks than non theists. Simply pointing out that a couple of theists make unpleasant remarks in your opinion does nothing to back up that. The point about people being banned is just a further assertion.
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Many of the highly unpleasant remarks are made by theists, more so than non believers, imo.
Examples?
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They spend a great deal of time and energy being sarky at believers' expense, and spouting dribs and drabs of philosophy almost as though they know what they're talking about, so we all know what they don't believe in, but what are their positive beliefs, and why do we never hear of them?
Don't have any beliefs as such.
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I seem to recall noting that Rhiannon found God did not meet her specifications. I know nothing about Wigginhall's former Christianity.
Liar.
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I seem to recall Rhiannon mentioning that she expected certain help from God and did not find it forthcoming.
Liar
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That word, "Lying', being used inappropriately again. NS you need to lie down. You don't have to log on either.
As for apologies, I've yet to see an atheist on here, not all but one of the coterie - apologise to someone of faith for all the sneering, sarcastic, vile remarks they make to them, too many to pinpoint.
IME the majority of non believers are tolerant of believers. They are not tolerant of lying, misrepresentation and the kind of disgusting beliefs where god saves them from a parking ticket but can’t be arsed to lift a finger to help Charlie Gard.
Vile? Yeah, pretty much.
And Vlad lied about what I’ve said in the past. But lying for Jesus is how he rolls.
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Rhiannon rocks ;)
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Rhiannon rocks ;)
Hey Bro
Ain't that a monumental statement of the truth.
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IME the majority of non believers are tolerant of believers. They are not tolerant of lying, misrepresentation and the kind of disgusting beliefs where god saves them from a parking ticket but can’t be arsed to lift a finger to help Charlie Gard.
But what if sometimes God does help with minor things and then lets major things happen.
You deny my suggestion that God doesn't meet your specifications and yet here we are, with you joining the chorus against me.
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But what if sometimes God does help with minor things and then lets major things happen.
You deny my suggestion that God doesn't meet your specifications and yet here we are, with you joining the chorus against me.
If god ensures a fine day for the church panto, but fails to prevent a plane crash, it is far from a god of love, it doesn't know the meaning of that word. >:(
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If god ensures a fine day for the church panto, but fails to prevent a plane crash, it is far from a god of love, it doesn't know the meaning of that word. >:(
What a ridiculously simplistic view of life.
Appeal to ridicule.
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What a ridiculously simplistic view of life.
Appeal to ridicule.
I think my comment was quite reasonable compared to yours. BTW, I thought you were considering leaving the forum yesterday, I see you are still here! ;D ;D ;D
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I think my comment was quite reasonable compared to yours. BTW, I thought you were considering leaving the forum yesterday, I see you are still here! ;D ;D ;D
I heard you considered leaving the forum. I see you are still here ;D ;D ;D ;D
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LR - you are assuming that God can prevent all disasters. It all depends on what you mean by "omnipotent". A few months ago, I started a thread on that topic, hoping for a serious discussion. I should have known that that was a vain hope, with the obsessively sarcastic atheists on here.
I certainly don't think God arranges nice weather for Church events, and neither does any sensible Christian, though I've heard that sort of childish nonsense from happy-clappys before now.
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LR - you are assuming that God can prevent all disasters. It all depends on what you mean by "omnipotent". A few months ago, I started a thread on that topic, hoping for a serious discussion. I should have known that that was a vain hope, with the obsessively sarcastic atheists on here.
I certainly don't think God arranges nice weather for Church events, and neither does any sensible Christian, though I've heard that sort of childish nonsense from happy-clappys before now.
The sky fairy supposedly created everything so why can't it prevent disasters? If it lets them happen it must enjoy human suffering! >:(
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LR - you are assuming that God can prevent all disasters. It all depends on what you mean by "omnipotent". A few months ago, I started a thread on that topic, hoping for a serious discussion. I should have known that that was a vain hope, with the obsessively sarcastic atheists on here.
I certainly don't think God arranges nice weather for Church events, and neither does any sensible Christian, though I've heard that sort of childish nonsense from happy-clappys before now.
So what areas of life do you think God selects in which to intervene? How do you believe such a choice is made?
Can you explain how your answer will, of necessity, be a guess?
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So what areas of life do you think God selects in which to intervene? How do you believe such a choice is made?
Can you explain how your answer will, of necessity, be a guess?
Good question, SD. :)
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Sigh... ::)
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Sigh... ::)
You might sigh, but you have no answer to any questions posed about god as it is all speculation, nothing more.
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Sigh... ::)
But it’s a valid and important question, and one I ultimately couldn’t answer when I was a Christian. If you believe in a loving god then that god would not turn his back on a suffering child because they were of the wrong or no faith. So the only thing to believe in that case is that god doesn’t intervene and healings, accidents, illnesses, deaths and all the rest are random. In which case, why have intercessory prayer? Either that or god answers some prayers but not others, keeps some safe but not others, heals some but not others - is a capricious monster, in other words.
But never mind, because he’s shit hot at finding parking spaces.
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But it’s a valid and important question, and one I ultimately couldn’t answer when I was a Christian. If you believe in a loving god then that god would not turn his back on a suffering child because they were of the wrong or no faith. So the only thing to believe in that case is that god doesn’t intervene and healings, accidents, illnesses, deaths and all the rest are random. In which case, why have intercessory prayer? Either that or god answers some prayers but not others, keeps some safe but not others, heals some but not others - is a capricious monster, in other words.
But never mind, because he’s shit hot at finding parking spaces.
I think praying can have a placebo effect and give those offering the prayer a feeling of comfort. Prayers are remembered if the outcome is positive but forgotten if negative. The excuse given for god not coming through is that god knows best!
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They spend a great deal of time and energy being sarky at believers' expense, and spouting dribs and drabs of philosophy almost as though they know what they're talking about
Perhaps when you accuse other people of being snarky, you might consider avoiding it yourself.
so we all know what they don't believe in, but what are their positive beliefs, and why do we never hear of them?
I believe I shouldn't believe anything without evidence.
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I believe that this thread is not going well...
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I believe that this thread is not going well...
I doubt that was the intention of the poster of the OP! ;D
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I doubt that was the intention of the poster of the OP! ;D
Stinking innuendo.
Atheists are supremely ascendant on this forum. If threads, boards or forums cannot get off the ground perhaps the finger should be pointing at the majority contingent for lacking wit, imagination and security.
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Stinking innuendo.
Atheists are supremely ascendant on this forum. If threads, boards or forums cannot get off the ground perhaps the finger should be pointing at the majority contingent for lacking wit, imagination and security.
You certainly have an overactive imagination if your posts are anything to go by. ;D
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Stinking innuendo.
Atheists are supremely ascendant on this forum.
What do you mean by that? Plenty of theists post here and give as good as they get. That's not bad considering they are hamstrung by having to defend fantasy.