Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: floo on April 06, 2018, 11:49:42 AM
-
deleted
-
Very nice.
-
I find it quite eerie reading about ancient Egypt, with their ideas about the afterlife, and their preparations for it, esp. in the pharaohs' tombs. There's a lot of pathos in seeing their grave goods, and their mummified bodies. But then maybe they have gone on to the Land of Two Fields, if that is the correct term.
Also thought of the old idea that you would be reunited with your family. OK, but not my mother, please!
-
I find it quite eerie reading about ancient Egypt, with their ideas about the afterlife, and their preparations for it, esp. in the pharaohs' tombs. There's a lot of pathos in seeing their grave goods, and their mummified bodies. But then maybe they have gone on to the Land of Two Fields, if that is the correct term. Also thought of the old idea that you would be reunited with your family. OK, but not my mother, please!
How much of a headache do you want, Wiggs? 'Cos the Egyptians' ideas of afterlife changed more often than the names of the camels owned by the touts at the pyramids! Equally, once you pooped your clogs, you might have several choices as to where you went - plus your being was split into four or five elements, each with different aspirations and requirements. No wonder mummification sometimes involved taking the brain out through the nasal cavity with a wire....it might have given the poor bloke wot was stuffed less to think about.......
-
Good stuff, Jim. Well, there's a hope that my mum's head has gone into orbit, like a tea-pot, as long as it stays away from me, or at least, the tongue in it.
-
If there is an afterlife and I meet up with my paternal grandmother, I sincerely hope the ghastly old witch is a different and much nicer character to the one she was in this life. She took pleasure in beating religion into her own kids, and frightening me, from the age of two onwards, with tortures of hell. >:( I literally danced a jig on her grave when visiting my home island sometime after old b*tch had, for once done the decent thing, and kicked the bucket in her 90s.
-
However, even if this was the case what if they are completely different characters in an afterlife and you don't even recognise one another?
My step grandmother died with fairly severe Alzheimer's. I sincerely hope that, if there is an afterlife, God wound back the clock a few years for her.
-
This is quite a sad thread.
Can we not forgive people in our families, who died imperfect as we all will - can't we forgive their shortcomings now they've gone? I would think hanging on to anything unpleasant about them makes our characters even more imperfect than they are.
-
This is quite a sad thread.
Can we not forgive people in our families, who died imperfect as we all will - can't we forgive their shortcomings now they've gone? I would think hanging on to anything unpleasant about them makes our characters even more imperfect than they are.
I cannot forgive that evil b*tch of a paternal grandmother. Her treatment of her children was evil and then some, which affected their lives and that of their children! If anyone deserves to be in hell she does. >:(
-
I cannot forgive that evil b*tch of a paternal grandmother. Her treatment of her children was evil and then some, which affected their lives and that of their children! If anyone deserves to be in hell she does. >:(
Anyone can forgive anyone - it's a matter of deciding to, and has nothing to do with your feelings.
-
Anyone can forgive anyone - it's a matter of deciding to, and has nothing to do with your feelings.
Well I have no intention of forgiving that woman, and have no guilt whatsoever about it.
-
Anyone can forgive anyone - it's a matter of deciding to, and has nothing to do with your feelings.
If only it were that simple.
-
Anyone can forgive anyone - it's a matter of deciding to, and has nothing to do with your feelings.
This is so true Steve.
My paternal grandmother was a very hard woman. But there were reasons. She went into service in a large house at the age of 10, and despite Downton Abbey trying to brainwash us into thinking it was all lovely for the folks below stairs; it really, really wasn't. Grandmother was up at 5 to make fires and regularly was still working at 9 & 10 in the evening with Sunday afternoons off.
She was tough on both my father and his sister, my aunt; who she frequently told that childbirth was the worst thing that could ever happen to a woman. Perhaps understandably my aunt never had children. She filled the void with alcohol. My father struggled all his life to express his emotions, I think, in part to do with his mothers attitudes and to do with his experiences in WW2.
However much I could blame my grandmother for this general lack of emotional stability she brought about, and I am sure she did, there comes a point where you have to say that was then, she had her reasons for the way she was, but this is now, and you have to get over it somehow. To hold the hatred towards her, that maybe she deserves, or maybe she doesn't is kind of irrelevant. The hatred can hurt only me now, not the dead and gone. As people we have to find a way to move on and forgive otherwise that hatred gets polished, and gains more power rather than diminishing as it should be encouraged to do.
-
If only it were that simple.
It is. Forgiveness is an act of will, not a matter of feelings, though better feelings about the person forgiven may follow.
-
It is. Forgiveness is an act of will, not a matter of feelings, though better feelings about the person forgiven may follow.
It is an act of will which one doesn't have to accept.
I have no idea why my grandmother was like she was, her own mother was a lovely woman and like liked her. :)
-
It is an act of will which one doesn't have to accept.
Indeed - but you originally said that you couldn't forgive her. In fact, as you now admit, you could, but won't. Fair enough, but let's be accurate.
-
It is. Forgiveness is an act of will, not a matter of feelings, though better feelings about the person forgiven may follow.
And if the person that ‘needs’ forgiveness is still causing harm to you and others?
-
It is. Forgiveness is an act of will, not a matter of feelings, though better feelings about the person forgiven may follow.
It is totally irrelevant to a dead person whether one forgives them in ones' mind or not. I do not forgive a couple of people in my life but since any feelings of anger or bitterness would harm me not them, I put the events to the back of my mind and left them there. I do not think some things need to be forgiven, but forgotten? Yes, although the mind is such that it has everything stored in longterm memory. I have not let my life be damaged by letting things come to the front of my thinking. Both died years ago.
I can understand why things as they were.
-
Sometimes staying angry is necessary in order to protect yourself.
-
Anyone can forgive anyone - it's a matter of deciding to, and has nothing to do with your feelings.
You can utter the words "I forgive you" but if you still feel anger and bitterness, have you really forgiven them? I frequently forgive people, but sometimes it takes an effort of will to put the resentment aside. I can totally accept that, for some people, the pain is too great to ever be able to forgive the perpetrator.
-
Just agreeing with Rhiannon; anger can be an important defence and resistance to bad stuff. Even when someone is dead it may be important to do this, saying no to oppression. Tell me about it.
-
You can utter the words "I forgive you" but if you still feel anger and bitterness, have you really forgiven them? I frequently forgive people, but sometimes it takes an effort of will to put the resentment aside. I can totally accept that, for some people, the pain is too great to ever be able to forgive the perpetrator.
Deciding to forgive is the beginning of the healing process (if you'll forgive me coming over a bit touchy-feely).
-
Deciding to forgive is the beginning of the healing process (if you'll forgive me coming over a bit touchy-feely).
That's probably true. Now could you answer the question.
-
That's probably true. Now could you answer the question.
By all means - yes, you have really forgiven them. The anger and bitterness will start to fade from that point.
-
By all means - yes, you have really forgiven them. The anger and bitterness will start to fade from that point.
You sound immensely confident on that score. I am more sceptical.
-
Indeed - but you originally said that you couldn't forgive her. In fact, as you now admit, you could, but won't. Fair enough, but let's be accurate.
No I can't forgive her.
-
I think it's unwise to legislate for other people's forgiveness or lack of. People have their own pathway, and it's not for me to tell them how to travel along it.
-
I think it's unwise to legislate for other people's forgiveness or lack of. People have their own pathway, and it's not for me to tell them how to travel along it.
Hear! Hear! I suspect others might not have been so forgiving if they had experience of my paternal grandmother.
-
Deciding to forgive is the beginning of the healing process (if you'll forgive me coming over a bit touchy-feely).
Bollocks.
-
I have a few opinions on the matter, but if I started explaining, it would look as if there was still a slight problem! There isn't so I shrug my shoulders and continue with the rest of my life with the memories archived and stored away in a remote corner of my long-term memories. :)
I am learning a few details about memory storage which I sort of knew before, but( the book I'm reading is clarifying it interestingly.)
-
It's just not true. I've seen people erupt with rage over soneone who had hurt them, and I thought the rage was the beginning of healing. There is so much bollocks talked about forgiveness.
-
It's just not true. I've seen people erupt with rage over soneone who had hurt them, and I thought the rage was the beginning of healing. There is so much bollocks talked about forgiveness.
The beginning of healing definitely was giving myself permission to feel anger, because I’d always been taught that I wasn’t allowed to be angry. It took a while for it to feel safe to do so, but without it I’d have stayed a victim. Fuck that.
You can be angry and remain true to your values. I’ve never sought revenge.
-
I'm just wary of recipes. When I was a therapist, there were always people whom therapy did not suit. So saying to them, you should do therapy, is dangerous. Same for most things.
-
I find it quite eerie reading about ancient Egypt, with their ideas about the afterlife, and their preparations for it, esp. in the pharaohs' tombs. There's a lot of pathos in seeing their grave goods, and their mummified bodies. But then maybe they have gone on to the Land of Two Fields, if that is the correct term.
Also thought of the old idea that you would be reunited with your family. OK, but not my mother, please!
My mother an emphatic YES! My Mothers-in-law an equally emphatic NO!