Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Walt Zingmatilder on October 30, 2018, 11:15:24 AM
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No 1
Lowering of the school leaving age.
Why this is a benefit?
Removes the resentment of those forced to remain in it. Will teach those who opt out the value of education, save resources and waste.
How to offset adverse effects.
Effective adult education opportunities.
Why we will never see it?
Education is the national baby sitting service.
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What has this to do with Brexit?
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Glad you asked.
Sun's not even over the Yardarm yet.
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What has this to do with Brexit?
Taking back control, of course.
Of course rather than turn back something that might be useful, taking back control will be used to turn back labour laws and civil rights.
I guess you missed the connection with Brexit as you can only see things from a nationalist perspective.
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Taking back control, of course.
Nope, still not seeing it. And while you are here, are you suggesting seriously that you want the age people need to stay in education reduced? If so to what?
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Nope, still not seeing it. And while you are here, are you suggesting seriously that you want the age people need to stay in education reduced? If so to what?
I presume if we take back control we can turn the clock back and that is the context of the post.
I'm happy that some readers appreciate that even if you and others lack that ability.
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I presume if we take back control we can turn the clock back and that is the context of the post.
I'm happy that some readers appreciate that even if you and others lack that ability.
So you don't actually see this as a benefit, and it's really just a whinge about Brexit.
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Nope, still not seeing it. And while you are here, are you suggesting seriously that you want the age people need to stay in education reduced? If so to what?
15.
Once disgruntled students leave GCSE students will be undisturbed.
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So you don't actually see this as a benefit, and it's really just a whinge about Brexit.
And what would be wrong with just a whinge about Brexit.
I do see this as a benefit and cannot see how you have failed to see this as my intent.
I fear that those managing Brexit and those putting it through through brutishness are seeking a no benefit Brexit.... the ultimate English, "fuck you" Brexit.
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And what would be wrong with just a whinge about Brexit.
I do see this as a benefit and cannot see how you have failed to see this as my intent.
I fear that those managing Brexit and those putting it through through brutishness are seeking a no benefit Brexit.... the ultimate English, "fuck you" Brexit.
In itself nothing, but there is a long ongoing thread on Brexot. I'm just not getting your point here.
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In itself nothing, but there is a long ongoing thread on Brexot. I'm just not getting your point here.
If that is so It will not be for the want of me spelling out that truly taking back control could free us up to lower the school leaving age but sensible ideas like the lowering of the school leaving age are not likely to materialise in a Brexit which is from start to finish perversely bonkers.
How Brexit is only allowed one thread and yet certain subjects can command any number of threads escapes me.
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If that is so It will not be for the want of me spelling out that truly taking back control could free us Hup to lower the school leaving age but sensible ideas like the lowering of the school leaving age are not likely to materialise in a Brexit which is from start to finish perversely bonkers.
How Brexit is only allowed one thread and yet certain subjects can command any number of threads escapes me.
It's not stopped but if your point was about Brecit it would fit better there. As it is, if you think that reducing the age that you have to stay in education is a good idea, then conflating it with Brexit has just got in the way.
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It's not stopped but if your point was about Brecit it would fit better there. As it is, if you think that reducing the age that you have to stay in education is a good idea, then conflating it with Brexit has just got in the way.
Well I'm sorry you haven't got the point but I don't think that just because you can't make the connections others should be deprived.
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Well I'm sorry you haven't got the point but I don't think that just because you can't make the connections others should be deprived.
I'm not asking anyone to be deprived of your wisdom. Just trying to help you spread your pearls.
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I'm not asking anyone to be deprived of your wisdom. Just trying to help you spread your pearls.
Then I should be thanking you. Will it help to start a new thread do you think?
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Then I should be thanking you. Will it help to start a new thread do you think?
For what? If you just want to make the argument clearly that the age you can leave education should be reduced, then you can make it hete. You might want to change the title to make it clear. Always glad to be of help.
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£350 million a week for the NHS
Is something we'll never see.
(Apologies to those who see no connection between this and Brexit)
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You are getting a lovely new 50p design. Surely that and a blue passport is all that matters?
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I wasn't aware that the EU controls school leaving age.
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Lower it and kids who want to get qualifications will be forced to leave school and go out to work by their parents - happened to friends of mine.
Still not seeing the EU connection either but I thought I'd throw that in.
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Lower it and kids who want to get qualifications will be forced to leave school and go out to work by their parents - happened to friends of mine.
Still not seeing the EU connection either but I thought I'd throw that in.
Another view
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/peter-inson-lower-the-school-leaving-age-dont-raise-it-5333823.html
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Another view
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/peter-inson-lower-the-school-leaving-age-dont-raise-it-5333823.html
From 2007? Do we have a 'new generation of criminals? 11 years alter and my eldest is in post 16 education in a school mostly filled with working class kids, some who come from the special unit on site, and it bears no resemblance whatsoever to this.
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Perhaps what Vlad is suggesting is that in order to survive after we become the Venezuela of Europe we shall only survive by becoming a low age economy.
If we really want to become a manufacturing nation again then our main competitor will be Bangladesh. Having a well-educated workforce would would damage our chances completely. Just think - we could buy shirts and shoes and woolly jumpers all bearing a label saying "Made in England".
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Perhaps what Vlad is suggesting is that in order to survive after we become the Venezuela of Europe we shall only survive by becoming a low age economy.
If we really want to become a manufacturing nation again then our main competitor will be Bangladesh. Having a well-educated workforce would would damage our chances completely. Just think - we could buy shirts and shoes and woolly jumpers all bearing a label saying "Made in England".
After Brexit the school leaving age will no doubt be raised to disguise the unemployment figures.
I suggested that adult education be available when those early leavers feel the need.
That way resources need only be spent on those willing to use them.
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From 2007? Do we have a 'new generation of criminals? 11 years alter and my eldest is in post 16 education in a school mostly filled with working class kids, some who come from the special unit on site, and it bears no resemblance whatsoever to this.
There is now great concern over what is known as ''county line'' where school age children are exploited by drug dealers. Excluded and disaffected pupils are especially vulnerable.
I think England stopped worrying about how students felt or coped being concerned more about league tables, exam factories and indulging principals and headteachers in their free market, business oriented fantasies.
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Apologies - I hadn't spotted that I had mistyped. There should have been a "W" before "age".
So here is my intended contribution.
Perhaps what Vlad is suggesting is that in order to survive after we become the Venezuela of Europe we shall only survive by becoming a low wage economy.
If we really want to become a manufacturing nation again then our main competitor will be Bangladesh. Having a well-educated workforce would would damage our chances completely. Just think - we could buy shirts and shoes and woolly jumpers all bearing a label saying "Made in England".
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Apologies - I hadn't spotted that I had mistyped. There should have been a "W" before "age".
So here is my intended contribution.
Perhaps what Vlad is suggesting is that in order to survive after we become the Venezuela of Europe we shall only survive by becoming a low wage economy.
If we really want to become a manufacturing nation again then our main competitor will be Bangladesh. Having a well-educated workforce would would damage our chances completely. Just think - we could buy shirts and shoes and woolly jumpers all bearing a label saying "Made in England".
I'm afraid after Brexit there can only be the stone age and the only tourist dollars those brought by professional anthropologists.
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I think England stopped worrying about how students felt or coped being concerned more about league tables, exam factories and indulging principals and headteachers in their free market, business oriented fantasies.
I think that it as a Labour government which invented the academy concept - thereby allowing anyone sufficiently interested to be allowed to manage schools. It was an early step towards industrialising education. But I think that it was Kenneth Baker who first realised he could interfere with the internal management of education - imposing a sort of bowdlerised "management by objectives" into education. One of the shortcomings of politicians in power is that when they do impose MbO they select objectives which are easy to measure rather than those which meaningful and informative.
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I think that it as a Labour government which invented the academy concept - thereby allowing anyone sufficiently interested to be allowed to manage schools. It was an early step towards industrialising education. But I think that it was Kenneth Baker who first realised he could interfere with the internal management of education - imposing a sort of bowdlerised "management by objectives" into education. One of the shortcomings of politicians in power is that when they do impose MbO they select objectives which are easy to measure rather than those which meaningful and informative.
Yes, It was also The Conservatives who invented OFSTED to dictate how things would be taught and where the emphasies should lie. The goal of education then became meeting what was decided at some Office or awayday hotel and conference centre rather than the humanitarian emerging needs of the pupils and then it naturally evolved into a story about adults, knighthoods, takeovers, Heads started calling themselves Principals and CEO's, I know of a local head who referred to classrooms as 'plant' and there was asset stripping golden handshakes etc.
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If we really want to become a manufacturing nation again
What do you mean "again"? We are a manufacturing nation. We are currently ranked number seven in the World for industrial output.
We may drop a couple of places as a result of Brexit, of course.
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I mean "again" in the sense that Brexiteers use the word. In terms of a nostalgic dream of a time that we were totally self-sufficient. I would have thought that anyone reading my post would immediately understand that.
I was clearly mistaken.
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I mean "again" in the sense that Brexiteers use the word.
You mean in the sense of it being a distortion of the truth?
In terms of a nostalgic dream of a time that we were totally self-sufficient. I would have thought that anyone reading my post would immediately understand that.
When was that? We weren't self sufficient at the time of the First World War, never mind the Second.
I was clearly mistaken.
I can only respond to the words as written. It looked like you were claiming we are not a manufacturing nation. Whether it is you making the claim or just Brexiteers, it is a false claim, and in the case of the Brexiteers, one arrived at by believing a false narrative fed to them by the anti-EU media and liars such as Nigel Farage.
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jeremyp
I'm sorry that you did not perceive that I was being a little facetious. You must have lived in very sheltered circumstances if you have never heard someone say something like "we don't make anything any more".
But you must also know, if you do consider the opinions expressed and attitudes displayed on this forum, that I am not a Brexiteer and have no sympathy with the Brexit philosophy. It is characteristic of English (not the language) discourse that understatement and contrary statement are often used to emphasise points in discussion - something which our American co-linguists occasionally complain about.
If you are indeed a literalist then you are missing out on a lot of fun.
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I'm sorry that you did not perceive that I was being a little facetious. You must have lived in very sheltered circumstances if you have never heard someone say something like "we don't make anything any more".
I hear it all the bloody time. That's why it winds me up so much.
I am not a Brexiteer and have no sympathy with the Brexit philosophy. It is characteristic of English (not the language)
The thing is I hear "we don't make things anymore" from all sorts of people, not just Brexiteers. It's a such common trope, so much part of received wisdom that one somebody says it, I assume they believe it to be true. In reality, British manufacturing has grown in real terms almost continuously since the war with a blip at the beginning of the Thatcher era and another one after the financial crash of 2008.
I'm sorry, but it is one of my buttons and you pushed it.