Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Steve H on December 12, 2018, 02:24:27 PM
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Hoorah and huzzah! :D
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46535739
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It looks as if she will win it.
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I posted this on another thread a little while ago, but it belongs here.
As someone (can't remember who) said on The World at One a few minutes ago, May is now receiving the inevitable reward for sucking up to the ERG for the last couple of years - they are kicking her in the May equivalent of the nuts. Will she learn anything from this?
The consensus appears to be that she will survive this no confidence vote - though possibly not choose to remain as party leader for the next election.
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I just put telly on and it seems the majority of her party do have confidence in her, 117 don't. Now Mr Rees Mogg is on saying it's a terrible result. Still she won.
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I just put telly on and it seems the majority of her party do have confidence in her, 117 don't. Now Mr Rees Mogg is on saying it's a terrible result. Still she won.
She's a lame duck at best. Over a third of her own lot votedagainst her,and she only wonby saying she won't lead her lot into the next Westminster election. That gives her enimiesall the incentive they need to continue opposing her from within. Her victory meansabsolutely nothing.
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She's a lame duck at best. Over a third of her own lot votedagainst her,and she only wonby saying she won't lead her lot into the next Westminster election. That gives her enimiesall the incentive they need to continue opposing her from within. Her victory meansabsolutely nothing.
My Alexa has not been working for several days and I have not made the effort to go and find the little radio that works. I heard on the one upstairs that she is still our PM and am delighted to hear it. Of course she has made mistakes - she is a human being and for some reason people have a totally unrealistic expectation that PMs ought to not make mistakes. If the 'let's-drag-down-everyone-in-a-position-of-leadership', negative thinkers thought a bit harder and realised what a ghastly PM Rees-Mog or whatever his name is, would be - in my strongly held opinion - and had someone in mind with the same amount of parliamentary experience as Theresa May, then it might be a bit different, but, wel, thank goodness she has been supported by enough votes.
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My Alexa has not been working for several days and I have not made the effort to go and find the little radio that works. I heard on the one upstairs that she is still our PM and am delighted to hear it. Of course she has made mistakes - she is a human being and for some reason people have a totally unrealistic expectation that PMs ought to not make mistakes. If the 'let's-drag-down-everyone-in-a-position-of-leadership', negative thinkers thought a bit harder and realised what a ghastly PM Rees-Mog or whatever his name is, would be - in my strongly held opinion - and had someone in mind with the same amount of parliamentary experience as Theresa May, then it might be a bit different, but, wel, thank goodness she has been supported by enough votes.
May has not ruled out no deal or been candid about the preparations for it.
She spent the best part of two years nurturing hard brexiteers and fighting those she should have been forging a concensus with.
And now she is in perpetual danger of failing and nringing calamity.
The only thing that will garner my sympathy is her wreaking whatever revenge she can on that Frankensteins monster the ERG. We should never hear from them again.
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May has not ruled out no deal or been candid about the preparations for it.
She spent the best part of two years nurturing hard brexiteers and fighting those she should have been forging a concensus with.
And now she is in perpetual danger of failing and nringing calamity.
The only thing that will garner my sympathy is her wreaking whatever revenge she can on that Frankensteins monster the ERG. We should never hear from them again.
Having done a quick google to see what this ERG is, I agree with you.
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My Alexa has not been working for several days and I have not made the effort to go and find the little radio that works. I heard on the one upstairs that she is still our PM and am delighted to hear it. Of course she has made mistakes - she is a human being and for some reason people have a totally unrealistic expectation that PMs ought to not make mistakes. If the 'let's-drag-down-everyone-in-a-position-of-leadership', negative thinkers thought a bit harder and realised what a ghastly PM Rees-Mog or whatever his name is, would be - in my strongly held opinion - and had someone in mind with the same amount of parliamentary experience as Theresa May, then it might be a bit different, but, wel, thank goodness she has been supported by enough votes.
I feel much the same.
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May has not ruled out no deal or been candid about the preparations for it.
She spent the best part of two years nurturing hard brexiteers and fighting those she should have been forging a concensus with.
And now she is in perpetual danger of failing and nringing calamity.
The only thing that will garner my sympathy is her wreaking whatever revenge she can on that Frankensteins monster the ERG. We should never hear from them again.
I think that Vlad's analysis here is spot on.
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Far better May as PM than some of the alternatives like Rees-Mogg or Boris!
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My Alexa has not been working for several days and I have not made the effort to go and find the little radio that works. I heard on the one upstairs that she is still our PM and am delighted to hear it. Of course she has made mistakes - she is a human being and for some reason people have a totally unrealistic expectation that PMs ought to not make mistakes. If the 'let's-drag-down-everyone-in-a-position-of-leadership', negative thinkers thought a bit harder and realised what a ghastly PM Rees-Mog or whatever his name is, would be - in my strongly held opinion - and had someone in mind with the same amount of parliamentary experience as Theresa May, then it might be a bit different, but, wel, thank goodness she has been supported by enough votes.
The fact is that over a third of her own lot opposed - and oppose - her in the Commons.
That won't change.
Why shouldit?
Equally, she hassignalled her intention to resign sometime in the next two years or so - so the plotting behind the scenes will become increasingly dirty - on all wings of her party.
She has, therefore, lost much of the authority of a party leader, whislt gaining nothing in return. She may be in office, but hardly in control.
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That which may faces
Blame for a hard Brexit.
Losing majority due to defection of DUP
Lowing the meaningful vote
Not allowing the meaningful vote
Her own side calling a VONC
Tory party splitting.
That which will save May
No no deal
Second referendum
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That which may faces
Blame for a hard Brexit.
Losing majority due to defection of DUP
Lowing the meaningful vote
Not allowing the meaningful vote
Her own side calling a VONC
Tory party splitting.
That which will save May
No no deal
Second referendum
It's poetry, Captain: but not as we know it.
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The fact is that over a third of her own lot opposed - and oppose - her in the Commons.
That won't change.
Why shouldit?
Equally, she hassignalled her intention to resign sometime in the next two years or so - so the plotting behind the scenes will become increasingly dirty - on all wings of her party.
She has, therefore, lost much of the authority of a party leader, whislt gaining nothing in return. She may be in office, but hardly in control.
True enough. The questions that come to mind are:
- What do you want her to do now?
- What would you advise her to do?
- What do you think she will do?
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True enough. The questions that come to mind are:
- What do you want her to do now?
- What would you advise her to do?
- What do you think she will do?
1. Call a new referendum.
2 Seek a multi-party consensus.
3 Nothing....she's a Tory.
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1. Call a new referendum.
2 Seek a multi-party consensus.
3 Nothing....she's a Tory.
Just suppose Corbyn becomes PM, do you think he would call for another referendum, because he hasn't given any indication that he would?
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Far better May as PM than some of the alternatives like Rees-Mogg or Boris!
I agree, but anything which embarrasses the Tory party and brings a general election nearer and a Labour victory more likely is fine by me.
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I agree, but anything which embarrasses the Tory party and brings a general election nearer and a Labour victory more likely is fine by me.
I doubt anything would be better under Labour.
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1. Call a new referendum.
This needs an act of parliament, May won't propose one and not clear if one could pass.
2 Seek a multi-party consensus.
I agree, but can't see Corbyn cooperating as he wants a general election, and looks to hold out against the Withdrawal Agreement and/or referendum until he can force one.
3 Nothing....she's a Tory.
Most likely, or at least make no progress - likely to result in a no-deal exit.
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Quite liked this:
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/how-theresa-may-could-still-get-her-brexit-deal-through-parliament
Which suggests a referendum as a way for May to get mandate for WA.
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The only thing that will garner my sympathy is her wreaking whatever revenge she can on that Frankensteins monster the ERG. We should never hear from them again.
Consider that, having won the vote, she is unassailable for a year. What could she do in that year? Well, she could lose the vote on her deal and then announce that suspending Brexit is a better option than "no deal". If she does that, the only way to remove her would be for the Tory party to revolt against her which would precipitate a general election, or paralyse the government. Either way, Brexit stalls.
Note: May has said she will not fight the next GE as leader and it takes about six weeks to elect a new party leader, so if a GE is precipitated as a result of a no confidence vote, the Tories will have to fight it leaderless.
I think provoking yesterday's vote might have been a stroke of genius.
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I doubt anything would be better under Labour.
Cheap cynicism. Everything would be better under Labour.
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Cheap cynicism. Everything would be better under Labour.
A statement with nothing to back it up. ::)
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A statement with nothing to back it up. ::)
Hah.
Kettle meet pot.
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Hah.
Kettle meet pot.
Looking back on past Labour Governments what have they done which was so wonderful?
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Looking back on past Labour Governments what have they done which was so wonderful?
You mean apart from the NHS, establishing the Welfare State, Equal Pay Act, Decriminalisation of homosexuality, outlawing racial discrimination, establishing the Open University, National Minimum Wage, Cancelling up to 100% of debt for the poorest countries in the world.....
I could go on but there are none so blind as those who will not see.
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Looking back on past Labour Governments what have they done which was so wonderful?
Even if they did nothing else at all, establishing the NHS is probably the greatest achievement of any British government since WW2.
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You mean apart from the NHS, establishing the Welfare State, Equal Pay Act, Decriminalisation of homosexuality, outlawing racial discrimination, establishing the Open University, National Minimum Wage, Cancelling up to 100% of debt for the poorest countries in the world.....
I could go on but there are none so blind as those who will not see.
Quite. I can't understand why anyone doesn't vote Labour, frankly.
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You mean apart from the NHS, establishing the Welfare State, Equal Pay Act, Decriminalisation of homosexuality, outlawing racial discrimination, establishing the Open University, National Minimum Wage, Cancelling up to 100% of debt for the poorest countries in the world.....
I could go on but there are none so blind as those who will not see.
Devolution in Wales, Scotland and NI.
Disability Discriminatuon Act...
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Quite. I can't understand why anyone doesn't vote Labour, frankly.
Because, up here, where once they were unassailable, they now spiral down to increasing mediocrity, lacking principle or direction, with an increasingly banal series of leaders, until the present, a poor chap called Leonard, is unknown even by most Labour stalwarts.
They are an increasingly distant third place in politics up here.
My own constituency - which once boasted Keir Hardie - now has no Labour councillors, MSPs, MP or MEP.
Indeed, the next town to mine, where Hardie lived, is now represented in Westminster by a Tory for the first time in eighty years. (Fortunately, my own area dos not suffer from the same catastrophe)
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Looking back on past Labour Governments what have they done which was so wonderful?
As others have said: the NHS, the welfare state, the increase in council house building after the war, the Open University, the minimum wage...
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I get your point Anchor but no-one is saying Labour politicians are beyond reproach. Or any politicians. It's all about the lesser of two or more evils.
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I get your point Anchor but no-one is saying Labour politicians are beyond reproach. Or any politicians. It's all about the lesser of two or more evils.
I may not have agreed with them at every turn, but Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling and Jack McConnell were a towering force in Scottish politics, and in the Labour movement, as were Donald Dewar, Robin Cook and John Smith.
Though my politics lie elsewhere, I'm genuinely saddened by the sharp decline in Scottish Labour over the last fifteen years, with no sign of a revival in fortune in sight.
I've run out of fingers trying to count the number of leaders they've gone through since McConnell was defeated as First Minister in 2007, but each one seems more inept than the last.
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You mean apart from the NHS, establishing the Welfare State, Equal Pay Act, Decriminalisation of homosexuality, outlawing racial discrimination, establishing the Open University, National Minimum Wage, Cancelling up to 100% of debt for the poorest countries in the world.....
I could go on but there are none so blind as those who will not see.
I completely agree and why it so tragic that they are now run by Marxists. We need the centre left to have a strong voice in UK politics, they are quite pathetic currently wimpering in the background.
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Even if they did nothing else at all, establishing the NHS is probably the greatest achievement of any British government since WW2.
Agreed. It was the jewel in the crown of the UK. If I was still living in the UK I should be a Labour voter. I would like to be. Thirty or forty years ago I probably would, but the Labour party died after the death of John Smith. I could never bring myself to vote Conservative and I don't think there is a single party I could in good conscience vote for anymore.
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I completely agree and why it so tragic that they are now run by Marxists. We need the centre left to have a strong voice in UK politics, they are quite pathetic currently wimpering in the background.
That is a daft statement, imo.
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That is a daft statement, imo.
Why?
I think that it may be a little hyperbolic, but the current Leader of the Opposition is a student revolutionary who has grown older but hardly grown up. He never even obtained a degree but abandoned his studies because he knew better than his lecturers.
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Why?
I think that it may be a little hyperbolic, but the current Leader of the Opposition is a student revolutionary who has grown older but hardly grown up. He never even obtained a degree but abandoned his studies because he knew better than his lecturers.
Whilst I have no time for Corbyn I wouldn't describe him as a Marxist, more like a limp lettuce.
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Whilst I have no time for Corbyn I wouldn't describe him as a Marxist, more like a limp lettuce.
Telling that you have ignored my and others replies about Labour government achievements.
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That is a daft statement, imo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lCcFjRhiaw
In his own words.
Corbyn has never to my knowledge denied being a Marxist, was hugely supportive of the Marxist Venezuela, which makes doom and gloom of fanciful Brexit forecasts look like a walk in the park, in reality it is a shit show.
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Telling that you have ignored my and others replies about Labour government achievements.
I replied directly to you with the opening words:-
I completely agree
That is telling.
Again it is tragic the Labour party is the hands of idealistic extremists and many, very good politicans, are reduced to being in the sidelines.
I have tried several times to get our Corbyn fan club on this forum to defend Corbyn's last manifesto, apart from token whataboutery 'yeah but the tories' there is no defence offered.
He has cult like following, business people would flee from the country if he got elected and would bankrupt this country in a few years.
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I replied directly to you with the opening words:-
I completely agree
That is telling.
Again it is tragic the Labour party is the hands of idealistic extremists and many, very good politicans, are reduced to being in the sidelines.
I have tried several times to get our Corbyn fan club on this forum to defend Corbyn's last manifesto, apart from token whataboutery 'yeah but the tories' there is no defence offered.
He has cult like following, business people would flee from the country if he got elected and would bankrupt this country in a few years.
I wasn't replying to you. If you look I quoted Littleroses.
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I completely agree and why it so tragic that they are now run by Marxists. We need the centre left to have a strong voice in UK politics, they are quite pathetic currently wimpering in the background.
It wasn't the centre-left that gave us most of those things. The 45-51 government was well to the left, and even the Wilson governmentswere pretty left-wing by today's standards. Jeremy C. is no more left-wing than Clement Attlee or Nye Bevan.
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I wasn't replying to you. If you look I quoted Littleroses.
My apologies!
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It wasn't the centre-left that gave us most of those things. The 45-51 government was well to the left, and even the Wilson governmentswere pretty left-wing by today's standards. Jeremy C. is no more left-wing than Clement Attlee or Nye Bevan.
Nye Bevan was not PM, Attlee was in coalition with Tories during the war can't imagine Corbyn doing that.
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Nye Bevan was not PM, Attlee was in coalition with Tories during the war can't imagine Corbyn doing that.
I'm sure he would if we were fighting an all-out war with a fascist power.
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I'm sure he would if we were fighting an all-out war with a fascist power.
One hopes that would be the case.
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I'm sure he would if we were fighting an all-out war with a fascist power.
Yeah right he could barely come to say that police should shoot terrorists.
Remind me of Attlee position on nuclear weapons?