Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: Roses on March 13, 2019, 11:45:48 AM
-
What is your opinion of faith healers? I think they all come out of the same stable as witch doctors. The scam merchant Benny Hinn has apparently claimed that amputated limbs have regrown curtesy of his 'healing' ministry, like as if! ::) My husband's brother and wife, both Christians of the born again creed, attended one of his meetings when in the US a good few years ago. They were not in the least bit impressed, and regarded the guy as a con man.
I have mentioned this before, when I was a kid of thirteen and about to have eye surgery. My parents tried to persuade me to take part in a faith healing meeting at the Pentecostal church we attended, a faith healer was visiting our island. Even at that tender age I was sceptical and flatly refused to take part. Years later we discovered the guy had been outed as a fake. Although as it turns out he would have done me less harm than the optician who was also a fake, HEY HO! :o
-
Hi LR,
I heard in an online talk by James B Jordan that in the past, in African villages where Christianity was introduced, witch doctors who were in some cases able to heal people with their "magic" found that they could no longer do so. The missionaries were more successful, hence stories of them being killed.
Anyway, I've mentioned Dorothy Kerin before - the girl who was miraculously cured and went on to set up a hospital/retreat centre in London then East Sussex, claiming she had received a vision from Jesus and been called to heal others.
I worked for a year as a carer in the hospital near Tunbridge Wells, and although she was no longer around, a few of her team were living out their last days there so I met them.
This is totally different from Benny Hinn, from what I have heard of him. They have services each week in a chapel with laying on of hands and prayer.
-
At best so called 'faith healing' can have a placebo effect, imo.
At our previous property we owned a field, which came to media attention when it was claimed that the Mum of Jesus had been seen there, and people cured of their illnesses! I actually saw for a second or two an image, which resembled the picture book version of that woman when standing at the field gate one evening in 1997. I am convinced that was a product of my imagination. I had a frozen shoulder a year two later, which wasn't getting any better, despite medical attention. Someone suggested I visited the field in the hope of a cure. Just for fun I did, within five minutes the pain was much improved, and by the next day I had no more problems with it. I am convinced the vibes from the field encouraged my body's own healing mechanisms to kick in.
-
Your case seems to be a reverse placebo of some kind. You don't believe in such cures but regardless of that, you got cured and you are trying to find standard text book 'scientific' reasons for it.
In Yoga we accept an energy field in and around all beings. Like a magnetic field. Blocks and disturbances in this field can affect our health, physical and mental. Most faith healing or laying of hands or spontaneous cures are due to the regulation of this field.
-
I am convinced the vibes from the field encouraged my body's own healing mechanisms to kick in.
Any idea what these 'vibes' may have been?
-
Any idea what these 'vibes' may have been?
The view of the field from the gate was very pleasant, it was unusual because it was very steep and quite a climb up to the top, where there were some majestic trees. I named it 'Cae Mari', 'Field of Mary'. It was listed as a Millennium site, I am not sure why. The Prince of Wales had some interest in it I believe, I have forgotten the details all these years later, having so many other things of much more importance to concern me.
-
The view of the field from the gate was very pleasant, it was unusual because it was very steep and quite a climb up to the top, where there were some majestic trees. I named it 'Cae Mari', 'Field of Mary'. It was listed as a Millennium site, I am not sure why. The Prince of Wales had some interest in it I believe, I have forgotten the details all these years later, having so many other things of much more importance to concern me.
So what were the vibes that you think helped you heal?
-
So what were the vibes that you think helped you heal?
hmm... but she just told you :)
A "vibe" is subjective, ie. something you feel for a variety of possible reasons.
-
So what were the vibes that you think helped you heal?
The view of the field gave off pleasant vibes.
-
The view of the field gave off pleasant vibes.
A field does not 'give off' vibes, assuming 'vibes' are meant to be sensations or signals which are believed by some to be received by human brains. The temperature of the soil and the air is always varying slightly; the plants are doing what they do naturally, i.e. chemically changing some absorbed molecules and atoms etc into food for itself and discharging their waste molecules etc into the air. If those are breathed in, they will probably affect the lungs and the blood system in some way.
to realise and accept the facts about what actually happens is far more satisfying, self-esteem-promoting contentment-inducing than any nonsense about any kind of faith healing, and give credit to the brain's powers for taking care of its human!
-
A field does not 'give off' vibes, assuming 'vibes' are meant to be sensations or signals which are believed by some to be received by human brains. The temperature of the soil and the air is always varying slightly; the plants are doing what they do naturally, i.e. chemically changing some absorbed molecules and atoms etc into food for itself and discharging their waste molecules etc into the air. If those are breathed in, they will probably affect the lungs and the blood system in some way.
to realise and accept the facts about what actually happens is far more satisfying, self-esteem-promoting contentment-inducing than any nonsense about any kind of faith healing, and give credit to the brain's powers for taking care of its human!
My definition of 'vibes' is something, which is either pleasant or unpleasant. Our field was very pleasant indeed.
-
In Yoga we accept an energy field in and around all beings. Like a magnetic field. Blocks and disturbances in this field can affect our health, physical and mental. Most faith healing or laying of hands or spontaneous cures are due to the regulation of this field.
That is utter tosh, of course.
-
That is utter tosh, of course.
It is indeed.
-
hmm... but she just told you :)
A "vibe" is subjective, ie. something you feel for a variety of possible reasons.
Was just asking for clarification.
-
That is utter tosh, of course.
Ha! Ha! Anything you guys haven't learnt at school is 'tosh' for you. Isn't epigenetics also 'tosh' for you? :D
-
At best so called 'faith healing' can have a placebo effect, imo.
At our previous property we owned a field, which came to media attention when it was claimed that the Mum of Jesus had been seen there, and people cured of their illnesses! I actually saw for a second or two an image, which resembled the picture book version of that woman when standing at the field gate one evening in 1997. I am convinced that was a product of my imagination. I had a frozen shoulder a year two later, which wasn't getting any better, despite medical attention. Someone suggested I visited the field in the hope of a cure. Just for fun I did, within five minutes the pain was much improved, and by the next day I had no more problems with it. I am convinced the vibes from the field encouraged my body's own healing mechanisms to kick in.
That's interesting - at Burrswood, the place set up by Dorothy Kerin, there was a myth that visions of both Dorothy and Mary had been seen there. I lived there for 9 months but never saw either!
Do you think if someone had advised you to take a walk in any field, your shoulder might have felt better? I quite often feel a lot better after so doing.
-
That's interesting - at Burrswood, the place set up by Dorothy Kerin, there was a myth that visions of both Dorothy and Mary had been seen there. I lived there for 9 months but never saw either!
Do you think if someone had advised you to take a walk in any field, your shoulder might have felt better? I quite often feel a lot better after so doing.
One didn't walk in the field unless one had climbing gear! ;D Standing at the gate did it for me, but as I said my body's own healing mechanisms kicked in when I stood at the gate.
-
One didn't walk in the field unless one had climbing gear! ;D Standing at the gate did it for me, but as I said my body's own healing mechanisms kicked in when I stood at the gate.
This is getting complicated... things Welsh often do, in my experience. I was an evening cleaner in an office a few years ago, and the manager, who was from South Wales, used to disappear into thin air instead of going home! Along with three other guys. It was quite spooky. When the company eventually moved out of that office, I discovered they had been living in a store room in the warehouse, and travelling back to Wales at weekends.
-
This is getting complicated... things Welsh often do, in my experience. I was an evening cleaner in an office a few years ago, and the manager, who was from South Wales, used to disappear into thin air instead of going home! Along with three other guys. It was quite spooky. When the company eventually moved out of that office, I discovered they had been living in a store room in the warehouse, and travelling back to Wales at weekends.
What a daft comment about the Welsh! ::) I have lived in Wales for longer than I have lived anywhere else and have discovered the Welsh the same as the rest of us, human!
-
What a daft comment about the Welsh! ::) I have lived in Wales for longer than I have lived anywhere else and have discovered the Welsh the same as the rest of us, human!
Sorry. The honourable lady's remarks about the magic field in Wales reminded one of one's experience with magic disappearing Welshmen, which was eventually explained as having a natural cause.
-
Sorry. The honourable lady's remarks about the magic field in Wales reminded one of one's experience with magic disappearing Welshmen, which was eventually explained as having a natural cause.
Everything has a natural cause, even disappearing Welshmen! ;D
-
Ha! Ha! Anything you guys haven't learnt at school is 'tosh' for you. Isn't epigenetics also 'tosh' for you? :D
No, epigenetics exists, its just your over blown view of its importance and its role in evolution which is questioned based on the current evidence.
-
Ha! Ha! Anything you guys haven't learnt at school is 'tosh' for you.
No. Stuff that isn't true is tosh.
Isn't epigenetics also 'tosh' for you? :D
No, but neither is it the magic bullet you think it is.
-
What is your opinion of faith healers? I think they all come out of the same stable as witch doctors. The scam merchant Benny Hinn has apparently claimed that amputated limbs have regrown curtesy of his 'healing' ministry, like as if! ::) My husband's brother and wife, both Christians of the born again creed, attended one of his meetings when in the US a good few years ago. They were not in the least bit impressed, and regarded the guy as a con man.
I have mentioned this before, when I was a kid of thirteen and about to have eye surgery. My parents tried to persuade me to take part in a faith healing meeting at the Pentecostal church we attended, a faith healer was visiting our island. Even at that tender age I was sceptical and flatly refused to take part. Years later we discovered the guy had been outed as a fake. Although as it turns out he would have done me less harm than the optician who was also a fake, HEY HO! :o
Hi LR,
There are many healers who are genuine.
But more importantly people have been healed. I am not sure why you never really search for healings on the internet?
We are diverse but in honesty, people do want to believe and people are healed.
It is important that truth and Spirit are known. Healing is just something everyone can receive whether you believe or not. The faith of others have always counted to God.
-
Hi LR,
There are many healers who are genuine.
But more importantly people have been healed. I am not sure why you never really search for healings on the internet?
We are diverse but in honesty, people do want to believe and people are healed.
It is important that truth and Spirit are known. Healing is just something everyone can receive whether you believe or not. The faith of others have always counted to God.
At best faith healing has a placebo effect, imo. As for what counts with the mythical sky fairy, that is just the opinion of those who believe in it. Their opinions are so diverse, they count for nothing.
-
At best faith healing has a placebo effect, imo. As for what counts with the mythical sky fairy, that is just the opinion of those who believe in it. Their opinions are so diverse, they count for nothing.
I would accept your opinion had it been based on fact. My opinion remains because I know if you really wanted to, you could research and find healing does take place.
You have to have an opinion you base on facts no choice.
Not everyone is healed but that does not discount the fact that many are healed.
:)
-
I would accept your opinion had it been based on fact. My opinion remains because I know if you really wanted to, you could research and find healing does take place.
You have to have an opinion you base on facts no choice.
Not everyone is healed but that does not discount the fact that many are healed.
:)
Healing does take place from time to time, but I think it has a natural cause, nothing to do with any god.
-
Healing does take place from time to time, but I think it has a natural cause, nothing to do with any god.
A fair point but how do you prove it was not God when he specifically the one asked to provide that healing.
An interesting point given that the healing came.
-
A fair point but how do you prove it was not God when he specifically the one asked to provide that healing.
An interesting point given that the healing came.
You have no evidence any god exists, let alone heals anyone when in the mood to do so. Assuming it does exist, and is capable of healing people, why does it only respond positively occasionally, instead of doing so when asked? Why did my atheist husband survive, when well meaning people prayed for his recovery, yet our 'born again' friend died, leaving a devastated young family and wife to cope with great difficulty?
-
A fair point but how do you prove it was not God when he specifically the one asked to provide that healing.
An interesting point given that the healing came.
People pray to many gods. When some coincidences happen does that mean their gods exist as well?
-
A fair point but how do you prove it was not God when he specifically the one asked to provide that healing.
How do you prove that it is God when they may well have got better anyway?
-
How do you prove that it is God when they may well have got better anyway?
In all probability some people make unexplained recoveries when prayer hasn't entered the equation.
-
You have no evidence any god exists, let alone heals anyone when in the mood to do so. Assuming it does exist, and is capable of healing people, why does it only respond positively occasionally, instead of doing so when asked? Why did my atheist husband survive, when well meaning people prayed for his recovery, yet our 'born again' friend died, leaving a devastated young family and wife to cope with great difficulty?
Is there anybody you come across that you aren't tempted to caricature?
-
Is there anybody you come across that you aren't tempted to caricature?
What are you on about? I am stating a fact!