Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: Roses on April 07, 2019, 08:46:52 AM
-
It sickens me that some people consider their version of a god more important than their family, even their children. If a god does exist, it shouldn't be so far up its one rear end that it expects to come first and be worshipped. No one or thing is worthy of worship, especially not the Biblical god if the things stated in that book about it are true.
-
It sickens me that some people consider their version of a god more important than their family, even their children. If a god does exist, it shouldn't be so far up its one rear end that it expects to come first and be worshipped. No one or thing is worthy of worship, especially not the Biblical god if the things stated in that book about it are true.
I'm afraid Richard Dawkins comes first with me. My family receive regular instructions via electronic means.
-
I'm afraid Richard Dawkins comes first with me. My family receive regular instructions via electronic means.
Damn, no one seems to be answering...……..is there anyone on this forum who can get me a cup of tea milk no sugar?
-
Damn, no one seems to be answering...……..is there anyone on this forum who can get me a cup of tea milk no sugar?
Does it occur to you that you might just have commited the fastest total derail ever?
-
Does it occur to you that you might just have commited the fastest total derail ever?
Jesus greatest command was to love God, others and yourself.
Floo then switched to worship and God being up his own Jacksie.
I don't know what she means by worship and the latter sentiment seems a bit gratuitous.
What do you have to bring to this thread?
-
Does it occur to you that you might just have commited the fastest total derail ever?
Vlad should stop emptying a large amount of alcohol into each cuppa, then his posts might make more sense. ;D
-
It sickens me that some people consider their version of a god more important than their family, even their children. If a god does exist, it shouldn't be so far up its one rear end that it expects to come first and be worshipped. No one or thing is worthy of worship, especially not the Biblical god if the things stated in that book about it are true.
I remember many years ago - so long ago I think it was on the BBC message boards - a Christian arguing that he would not deny God even if the consequence was that he would be put in prison or worse, which was fine. But then he said it wouldn't matter if he was the only breadwinner of his family and not denying God would put them in poverty.
No amount of arguing that God would surely understand if the he (the poster) were to deny him (God) in such circumstances would persuade him to change his mind.
-
I remember many years ago - so long ago I think it was on the BBC message boards - a Christian arguing that he would not deny God even if the consequence was that he would be put in prison or worse, which was fine. But then he said it wouldn't matter if he was the only breadwinner of his family and not denying God would put them in poverty.
No amount of arguing that God would surely understand if the he (the poster) were to deny him (God) in such circumstances would persuade him to change his mind.
Subjected to a form of brainwashing that is still, I regret to say, legal! Especially unpleasant when practised upon children under 16!
-
People who put god before their young children should have them removed for their own safety, imo.
-
Subjected to a form of brainwashing that is still, I regret to say, legal! Especially unpleasant when practised upon children under 16!
Brainwashing involves torture Owl, I think you'll find that torture goes against any human rights legislation I've heard of, it's illegal here in the UK, although I've not heard of anyone being taken to court for trying to indoctrinate people.
Brainwashing and indoctrination are two very different brain messing methods, I think you may notice even the supposedly well educated get the correct names of the two entirely disparate methods mixed up.
Regards ippy
PS I have to admit the word brainwashing is inclined to easily slip off of the tongue more readily than the word indoctrination.
-
Brainwashing involves torture Owl, I think you'll find that torture goes against any human rights legislation I've heard of, it's illegal here in the UK, although I've not heard of anyone being taken to court for trying to indoctrinate people.
Brainwashing and indoctrination are two very different brain messing methods, I think you may notice even the supposedly well educated get the correct names of the two entirely disparate methods mixed up.
Regards ippy
PS I have to admit the word brainwashing is inclined to easily slip off of the tongue more readily than the word indoctrination.
Brainwashing can involve using torture but not always. If a child, for instance, is repeatedly fed a particular brand of religion, and is not permitted to question it, that is brainwashing. Look the definition up, as I have just done.
-
Brainwashing involves torture Owl, I think you'll find that torture goes against any human rights legislation I've heard of, it's illegal here in the UK, although I've not heard of anyone being taken to court for trying to indoctrinate people.
Brainwashing and indoctrination are two very different brain messing methods, I think you may notice even the supposedly well educated get the correct names of the two entirely disparate methods mixed up.
Regards ippy
PS I have to admit the word brainwashing is inclined to easily slip off of the tongue more readily than the word indoctrination.
I disagree! Teaching a child of any age the concept that the only result of telling a priesty that the Bible is bollocks is eternal damnation in Hell without hope of release id brainwashing! It is using terror in children to condition them to the views of tghe Christian church which increasing it is being found out for breaking its own rules anytime it suits it!
And don't bother telling me that this is only happening in the Catholic branch!
-
Brainwashing can involve using torture but not always. If a child, for instance, is repeatedly fed a particular brand of religion, and is not permitted to question it, that is brainwashing. Look the definition up, as I have just done.
Thanks LR for the confirmation!
(see - we don't always disagree!)
-
I disagree! Teaching a child of any age the concept that the only result of telling a priesty that the Bible is bollocks is eternal damnation in Hell without hope of release id brainwashing! It is using terror in children to condition them to the views of tghe Christian church which increasing it is being found out for breaking its own rules anytime it suits it!
And don't bother telling me that this is only happening in the Catholic branch!
Owl, I agree with the things you're saying here, brainwashing as a word has an entirely different meaning to the word indoctrination, I was questioning the use of a word not the sentiment of your post.
These religious people are, as you rightly say, always doing their best to indoctrinate any youngsters they can lay their grubby hands on.
Look up The North Korean war & brainwashing it's all there.
Regards ippy
-
I think brainwashing is more about using techniques to 'wash out' the beliefs and thought processes which can oppose indoctrination e.g. remove religious beliefs, the opiate of the people' and indoctrinate with communist doctrine. Small children are less likely to need brainwashing as they are naturally susceptible to thought control or indoctrination, which is why part of the process is often to separate them from families or inappropriate social background.
-
I think brainwashing is more about using techniques to 'wash out' the beliefs and thought processes which can oppose indoctrination e.g. remove religious beliefs, the opiate of the people' and indoctrinate with communist doctrine. Small children are less likely to need brainwashing as they are naturally susceptible to thought control or indoctrination, which is why part of the process is often to separate them from families or inappropriate social background.
I agree, I see brainwashing as a technique(albeit an aggressive one) intended to impose the process of indoctrination on others.
-
I agree, I see brainwashing as a technique(albeit an aggressive one) intended to impose the process of indoctrination on others.
Torture therefore Brainwashing, Owl means indoctrination by legal means Brainwashing would be illegal due to the torture element.
Owl, like so many keeps on using the wrong word, its a bit like where the weather people on TV etc, keep on saying a bit of rain when you can't have a bit of rain but you can, as rain is a liquid, have a drop of rain.
Look up the Korean war where brainwashing was found to be an abject failure and because of that virtually no one uses brainwashing any more.
Regards ippy
-
Torture therefore Brainwashing, Owl means indoctrination by legal means Brainwashing would be illegal due to the torture element.
Owl, like so many keeps on using the wrong word, its a bit like where the weather people on TV etc, keep on saying a bit of rain when you can't have a bit of rain but you can, as rain is a liquid, have a drop of rain.
Look up the Korean war where brainwashing was found to be an abject failure and because of that virtually no one uses brainwashing any more.
Regards ippy
Seeing as it is clear from your response, and those preceding it, you know full well exactly what I meant and the NR style pedantry was totally unnecessary!
-
It sickens me that some people consider their version of a god more important than their family, even their children. If a god does exist, it shouldn't be so far up its one rear end that it expects to come first and be worshipped. No one or thing is worthy of worship, especially not the Biblical god if the things stated in that book about it are true.
Although in general I dislike amateur psychology, I must say that religion in general, and Christianity in particular, seem to be an itch that you cannot help scratching. You seem to be fighting against it. If you were a completely contented atheist, why would you keep starting all these multi-exclamation-marked posts, objecting to points of view no-one has expressed?
-
Moderator Please note some posts have been removed as they were derail and a 'spat'
-
Brainwashing can involve using torture but not always. If a child, for instance, is repeatedly fed a particular brand of religion, and is not permitted to question it, that is brainwashing. Look the definition up, as I have just done.
Brainwashing is not recognised by orthodox psychology, and many experts believe that there is no such thing. https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/12/brainwashing-is-mind-control-real.html
-
SteveH,
Brainwashing is not recognised by orthodox psychology, and many experts believe that there is no such thing. https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/12/brainwashing-is-mind-control-real.html
This article concerns the effectiveness or otherwise of "brainwashing" people such that they join or remain with groups. It concludes though:
"Obviously children, elderly people with diminished mental capacities, the mentally ill, and those who have serious mental deficiencies are excluded from being able to make conscious and responsible decisions. When groups exert influence over these individuals, then this isn’t “brainwashing”—it is behavior that should be addressed by the authorities to prevent exploitation or harm coming to these people."
Your disagreement with Floo is terminological, not substantive.
-
Seeing as it is clear from your response, and those preceding it, you know full well exactly what I meant and the NR style pedantry was totally unnecessary!
Just seen this reply of yours H, yes I did know what you meant but using brainwashing to describe indoctrination is a common enough misuse of the now known to be defunct process but again it's so completely the wrong word, like using the word 'stereo' to describe a radio, nobody called a radio a 'mono' before they first started broadcasting stereo sound in 1967. (I may be about a year or two out on that one).
I get picked up from time to time on word usage, I adjust my usage when I realise, mostly I get picked up on pronunciation but most people outside of London don't seem to understand that the way we speak in London is the standard, it's everybody else that have accents.
Regards ippy
-
Just seen this reply of yours H, yes I did know what you meant but using brainwashing to describe indoctrination is a common enough misuse of the now known do be defunct process but again it's so completely the wrong word, like using the word 'stereo' to describe a radio, nobody called a radio a 'mono' before they first started broadcasting stereo sound in 1967. (I may be about a year or two out on that one).
I get picked up from time to time on word usage, I adjust my usage when I realise, mostly I get picked up on pronunciation but most people outside of London don't seem to understand that the way we speak in London is the standard, it's everybody else that have accents.
Regards ippy
Bloody Hell - how to lose friends and alienate virtually the entire population of the Earth!
-
Just seen this reply of yours H, yes I did know what you meant but using brainwashing to describe indoctrination is a common enough misuse of the now known do be defunct process but again it's so completely the wrong word, like using the word 'stereo' to describe a radio, nobody called a radio a 'mono' before they first started broadcasting stereo sound in 1967. (I may be about a year or two out on that one).
I get picked up from time to time on word usage, I adjust my usage when I realise, mostly I get picked up on pronunciation but most people outside of London don't seem to understand that the way we speak in London is the standard, it's everybody else that have accents.
Regards ippy
;D ;D ;D
-
Bloody Hell - how to lose friends and alienate virtually the entire population of the Earth!
It's not my fault Owl, that those outside of London have accents and we don't!
Regards ippy :P
-
It's not my fault Owl, that those outside of London have accents and we don't!
Regards ippy :P
The Cockney's already have 50 grand on your head!
-
The Cockney's already have 50 grand on your head!
God has no doubt been down the bookies and put a billion grand bet on as it created humans and accents. ;D
-
The Cockney's already have 50 grand on your head!
My accent is a bit more north London, very similar to the well known guitarist Julian Breame's although my dad was in fact a Cockney, (Bow Bells, in the city could be heard right across the Hackney marshes in his day to where he was borne), as far as I'm aware I also pronounce the letter 'H' in the appropriate places.
I have relatives that live up in the north of the country and believe me they can be very rude to me about Londoners not having an accents, I can't think why?
ippy
-
Getting back to the OP, is there any poster here who would put their version of god before their family and responsibilities?
-
Getting back to the OP, is there any poster here who would put their version of god before their family and responsibilities?
Illogical question - God wouldn't expect anyone to avoid their worldly responsibilities.
-
That's right.
-
The Biblical god is all that is bad if the deeds attributed to it had any credibility, so therefore it would be surprising if it didn't expect humans to put it before anything else in their lives.
-
The Biblical god is all that is bad if the deeds attributed to it had any credibility, so therefore it would be surprising if it didn't expect humans to put it before anything else in their lives.
Compare and contrast:
""I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
"You shall have no other gods before me""
Exodus 20: 2,3
"He has showed you, O man, what is good;
and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?"
Micah 6:8
"When you spread forth your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your doings
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
defend the fatherless,
plead for the widow."
Isaiah 1: 15-17
-
Compare and contrast:
""I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
"You shall have no other gods before me""
Exodus 20: 2,3
"He has showed you, O man, what is good;
and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?"
Micah 6:8
"When you spread forth your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your doings
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
defend the fatherless,
plead for the widow."
Isaiah 1: 15-17
Words, but the deeds attributed to it are evil like the flood.
-
Words, but the deeds attributed to it are evil like the flood.
No - it's all words; written by people with different ideas who lived sometimes centuries apart.
You know perfectly well that the global flood never happened, least of all a flood caused by a vengeful deity. It's a fairy story - no doubt the original author had some primitive moral intent in mind when he wrote it (or borrowed it - it exists elsewhere in the middle East). The priest or scribe probably wanted the ancient Israelites to make sure they toed the line or else.
Why you should get so steamed up about such things after all this time is a mystery. You don't believe in such a god apparently, you know such things didn't occur, so why all the fuss?
You might as well get your knickers in a twist over the Australian Aborine myth of the evil Tiddlelick the Frog, who caused a world drought by drinking all the water - until the eel made him laugh and he pissed it all out again.
-
No - it's all words; written by people with different ideas who lived sometimes centuries apart.
You know perfectly well that the global flood never happened, least of all a flood caused by a vengeful deity. It's a fairy story - no doubt the original author had some primitive moral intent in mind when he wrote it (or borrowed it - it exists elsewhere in the middle East). The priest or scribe probably wanted the ancient Israelites to make sure they toed the line or else.
Why you should get so steamed up about such things after all this time is a mystery. You don't believe in such a god apparently, you know such things didn't occur, so why all the fuss?
You might as well get your knickers in a twist over the Australian Aborine myth of the evil Tiddlelick the Frog, who caused a world drought by drinking all the water - until the eel made him laugh and he pissed it all out again.
I agree that the Biblical god, and what is attributed to it, are fairy stories. I just hope if a god does exist it is above human machinations. People who claim to know what the Biblical is thinking and feeling are making it up as they go along.