Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Roses on October 30, 2019, 05:08:18 PM
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49607907
Here is the list so far of MPs who say they are stepping down, there may be more who will do so too.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49607907
Here is the list so far of MPs who say they are stepping down, there may be more who will do so too.
Quite a low number in one sense, it's been a bruising parliament and we are not that far from Jo Cox but a large number given the shortness of the parliament. If he stands and is elected will it make Dennis Skinner, Father of the House?
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Quite a low number in one sense, it's been a bruising parliament and we are not that far from Jo Cox but a large number given the shortness of the parliament. If he stands and is elected will it make Dennis Skinner, Father of the House?
I guess it isn't surprising that there will be a relatively low number stepping down at this election, given that they were voted in only in 2017 and would perhaps have expected a full 5 year term before having to make a decision about whether to stand, or not to stand again.
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I would be pleased if Boris, Leadsom and Gove stepped down.
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I suspect that this election might end up confirming a broken and probably irreparable UK in the face of the insanity that is Brexit: in NI it may be about the strength or weakness of unionism vs eventual reunification, in Scotland it will be about independence and the rejection of Brexit, and in England & Wales it will be about local variations in enthusiasm for Brexit - so, different agendas all round.
Any notion of 'bringing the country (as in the UK) together' is a joke, and it seems to me that the 'precious union' is now fatally wounded thanks to Brexit - good!
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I'm hoping for a new parliament that still can't decide, (if labour or lib Dems don't get in) so forcing a further extension to hold an in/out Brexit referendum some time next year
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I suspect that this election might end up confirming a broken and probably irreparable UK in the face of the insanity that is Brexit: in NI it may be about the strength or weakness of unionism vs eventual reunification, in Scotland it will be about independence and the rejection of Brexit, and in England & Wales it will be about local variations in enthusiasm for Brexit - so, different agendas all round.
Any notion of 'bringing the country (as in the UK) together' is a joke, and it seems to me that the 'precious union' is now fatally wounded thanks to Brexit - good!
No argument from me!
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I'm hoping for a new parliament that still can't decide, (if labour or lib Dems don't get in) so forcing a further extension to hold an in/out Brexit referendum some time next year
We might be past that now: if the only choice left for Brexit is between Johnson's flawed 'deal' and 'no deal', and the EU say no more negotiations, then revoke is the only sensible and credible alternative.
Moreover the result of the forthcoming GE might show that there is no general support for Brexit outwith England, so it may be that whatever mix of government emerges on Dec 13th, they would have to recognise that the most recent information (from the GE results) shows too much fragmentation on a UK-wide basis to conclude that there is a sufficient pro-Brexit consensus that is apparent in each of the 4 nations that comprise the UK, leading to the conclusion that either Brexit or the UK must be binned in that they are mutually exclusive positions.
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Where is Farage - normally he is all over the media, but has been conspicuously absent over the last two days as the election has been agreed.
Not sure what this means regarding the Brexit Party, but something is surely afoot.
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Watching David Lidington talking about threats to families of MPs - why would anyone do the job?
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Westminster voting intention: CON: 34% (+2) LAB: 26% (+2) LDEM: 19% (-2) BREX: 12% (-1) GRN: 1% (-1) via
@Survation
, 29 - 30 Oct Chgs. w/ 18 Oct
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Where is Farage - normally he is all over the media, but has been conspicuously absent over the last two days as the election has been agreed.
Not sure what this means regarding the Brexit Party, but something is surely afoot.
Electoral pact with the Tories, I suspect.
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Where is Farage - normally he is all over the media, but has been conspicuously absent over the last two days as the election has been agreed.
Not sure what this means regarding the Brexit Party, but something is surely afoot.
I was also wondering why that ghastly excuse for a human being hadn't been making his presence felt now there is going to be another general election.
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I was also wondering why that ghastly excuse for a human being hadn't been making his presence felt now there is going to be another general election.
In Washington apparently.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/30/brexit-party-divided-over-election-tactics
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In Washington apparently.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/30/brexit-party-divided-over-election-tactics
I've just written this on the Brexit thread but it seems worth putting here. The Mod team did discuss whether to merge the threads but felt that it was ok to have the two.
'I was talking about 'efficient tactical voting'. If as I suspect Farage makes an arrangement with Johnson, the leave vote will be fairly solid. The differing stances on Remain, or indeed whatever we can call Labour's position, will make this harder unless there is a clear lead from the parties themselves, I don't think that is going to happen.
To take an example, a friend of mine lives in Rees-Moggs constituency and was wondering about who to vote for to get him out - now it's problematic because last time Rees-Mogg got 54%, Labour34%, LD 8%, Green 2% - so Mogg just needs to get the same vote - but there is meant to be a Brexit candidate standing so you think on that basis all get behind Labour, except there has actually been an opinion poll done in the constituency (Which won't be the case in all constituencies) and that gives Tories 44%, so in theory beatable, Labour 14% !!!, LDs 28%, Brexit 7%, Green 3%. So if there wasn't an opinion poll, the obvious vote would have been Labour tactically but that isn't the case once you see the poll. Even when you see the poll and decide to vote LD, then is there much chance of Labour voters all going to the LDs without them actually standing down? There are many Labour voters I know who would see the LDs as just yellow Tories after the coalition and will never vote for them.
And all that's not even taking into account that a good number of Labour voters are leave. '
I strongly suspect there will be no Brexit candidate in that constituency
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Brexit and election are two different issues, so imo certainly should be on different threads.
Conservatives of-course will do their best to conflate the GE with brexit though, blaming Labour and/or parliament for forcing us into one. They will do nothing useful on Health, Housing, Education after (assuming) we leave just as they have not since 2010.
Brexit could have, and still can, be handled perfectly reasonably (ie a deal or remain) without effect on dealing with the more important issues.
I think Corbyn is right to de-emphasise brexit, but not sure that the idea will penetrate into the mind of an electorate whipped up into a brexit frenzy - hopefully we are sufficiently sick of it to see through it.
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To take an example, a friend of mine lives in Rees-Moggs constituency and was wondering about who to vote for to get him out - now it's problematic because last time Rees-Mogg got 54%, Labour34%, LD 8%, Green 2% - so Mogg just needs to get the same vote - but there is meant to be a Brexit candidate standing so you think on that basis all get behind Labour, except there has actually been an opinion poll done in the constituency (Which won't be the case in all constituencies) and that gives Tories 44%, so in theory beatable, Labour 14% !!!, LDs 28%, Brexit 7%, Green 3%. So if there wasn't an opinion poll, the obvious vote would have been Labour tactically but that isn't the case once you see the poll. Even when you see the poll and decide to vote LD, then is there much chance of Labour voters all going to the LDs without them actually standing down? There are many Labour voters I know who would see the LDs as just yellow Tories after the coalition and will never vote for them.
And all that's not even taking into account that a good number of Labour voters are leave. '
I strongly suspect there will be no Brexit candidate in that constituency
Everyone is going to have to think very hard about best tactics to adopt - so expect many to just vote on "gut" or opt to give it a miss.
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Everyone is going to have to think very hard about best tactics to adopt - so expect many to just vote on "gut" or opt to give it a miss.
Yes, agree, and add to that the confusion between the election and Brexit, it's going to be harder for Remain parties to do anything. The Tories will just run on Brexit, and land of milk and honey promises. I had been thinking yesterday that it would be a majority of 20 -30 but dependent on how it plays out, tactical voting could backfire.
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Brexit and election are two different issues, so imo certainly should be on different threads.
Conservatives of-course will do their best to conflate the GE with brexit though, blaming Labour and/or parliament for forcing us into one. They will do nothing useful on Health, Housing, Education after (assuming) we leave just as they have not since 2010.
Brexit could have, and still can, be handled perfectly reasonably (ie a deal or remain) without effect on dealing with the more important issues.
I think Corbyn is right to de-emphasise brexit, but not sure that the idea will penetrate into the mind of an electorate whipped up into a brexit frenzy - hopefully we are sufficiently sick of it to see through it.
The problem with the de-emphasizing is that it reduces the possibility of any effective tactical voting. It could be the Remain parties, and whatever Labour is, get caught in a middle place where enough people vote tactically about Bexit, and enough people vote on other issues, that it actually increases the seats the Tories take.
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And another opinion poll. Can't see Brexit or the Greens getting these figures. Particularly the Greens as they are definitely not standing in many seats.
CON: 36% (-) LAB: 21% (-2) LDEM: 18% (-) BREX: 13% (+1) GRN: 6% (-) via
@YouGov
Chgs. w/ 25 Oct
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Conservative and Labour to 'sit back' to get Ian Blackford unseated, apparently. Yep, that Remain tactical votestuff getting 'full' support from parties.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/396847da-fb69-11e9-a4b4-b816768ca711
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50246969
Some women MPs are complaining that the abuse they are suffering is forcing them to leave politics!
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50246969
Some women MPs are complaining that the abuse they are suffering is forcing them to leave politics!
Not just women - see my comment earlier about David Lidington talking about abuse this morning. That said, he thought that the abuse that women receive is more virulent.
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Not just women - see my comment earlier about David Lidington talking about abuse this morning. That said, he thought that the abuse that women receive is more virulent.
All abuse, be it female or male, should be cracked down upon BIG TIME.
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All abuse, be it female or male, should be cracked down upon BIG TIME.
What does 'BIG TIME' mean?
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What does 'BIG TIME' mean?
Well what do you think it means? ::)
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Well what do you think it means? ::)
I don't know, that's why I asked the question. What are you actually suggesting as measures?
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I don't know, that's why I asked the question. What are you actually suggesting as measures?
Anyone who has been proved to be abusive should be made to step down as an MP.
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Anyone who has been proved to be abusive should be made to step down as an MP.
what does 'abusive' mean, and what about the vast majority who are not MPs?
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It's being suggested that Johnson may change his seat to a safer one.
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what does 'abusive' mean, and what about the vast majority who are not MPs?
Very offensive and insulting, we are discussing MPs.
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Very offensive and insulting, we are discussing MPs.
Yes, them receiving abuse. The reports weren't just about receiving it from MPs but from everyone.
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What does 'BIG TIME' mean?
Saney
I think it has something to do with a circus ???
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Saney
I think it has something to do with a circus ???
Given our current political situation that would be appropriate.
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Trump makes a booty call
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50252285?fbclid=IwAR3xgKi9uZmkVC5NHLOGkHkCtvxOKrejQZMd7r2dRMIgGl_Sr0XQqP41YeU
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I see Nicky "no-neck" Morgan and Amber Rudd are leaving. NM is only in her 40s, so presumably she'll return to whatever profession she had before.
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I see Nicky "no-neck" Morgan and Amber Rudd are leaving. NM is only in her 40s, so presumably she'll return to whatever profession she had before.
You really cannot help your misogyny.
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You really cannot help your misogyny.
What misogyny? If I'd said Nicky "nice tits" Morgan, you'd've had a point, but I didn't.
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>:(
What misogyny? If I'd said Nicky "nice tits" Morgan, you'd've had a point, but I didn't.
Except you commented on her appearance to undermine her, misogynist.
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Don't be silly, twit.
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Don't be silly, twit.
You really don't like your misogyny being pointed out.
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If I called Johnson a fat git, or Nigel Fartage a nicotine-stained man-frog, would that make me a misandrist? Grow up.
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If I called Johnson a fat git, or Nigel Fartage a nicotine-stained man-frog, would that make me a misandrist? Grow up.
Keep justifying your misogyny to yourself.
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Go to hell.
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Go to hell.
Aw, misogynist gets upset.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50258139
For once Boris has done something right and told the idiot across the pond to stick his advice about the UK election and the suggestion the Tories team up with the hateful Farage!
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50258139
For once Boris has done something right and told the idiot across the pond to stick his advice about the UK election and the suggestion the Tories team up with the hateful Farage!
The article doesn't say that
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So Farage holding out for a no deal alliance. Any remainer has to hope Johnson says fuck off.
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So Farage holding out for a no deal alliance. Any remainer has to hope Johnson says fuck off.
Only if Johnson formally bins the deal and adopts no deal as official Tory policy. He won't do that, but if he did the Tories would lose swathes of voters who are pro-Brexit but anti no-deal.
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Only if Johnson formally bins the deal and adopts no deal as official Tory policy. He won't do that, but if he did the Tories would lose swathes of voters who are pro-Brexit but anti no-deal.
Well that's the opening position, whether the position stays like that we'll see, but yes I don't see how Johnson can accept it in this form.
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We might be past that now: if the only choice left for Brexit is between Johnson's flawed 'deal' and 'no deal', and the EU say no more negotiations, then revoke is the only sensible and credible alternative.
Moreover the result of the forthcoming GE might show that there is no general support for Brexit outwith England, so it may be that whatever mix of government emerges on Dec 13th, they would have to recognise that the most recent information (from the GE results) shows too much fragmentation on a UK-wide basis to conclude that there is a sufficient pro-Brexit consensus that is apparent in each of the 4 nations that comprise the UK, leading to the conclusion that either Brexit or the UK must be binned in that they are mutually exclusive positions.
I emailed Nigel farage a few months ago saying that there were three possible ways forward now: a soft Brexit (Boris deal) a WTO Brexit or remain. It definitely looks like there is more support for remain than either of the other two options, so it's a matter of how to get there. Boris and Nigel won't accept the other's form of Brexit, which is a start.
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I emailed Nigel farage a few months ago saying that there were three possible ways forward now: a soft Brexit (Boris deal) a WTO Brexit or remain. It definitely looks like there is more support for remain than either of the other two options, so it's a matter of how to get there. Boris and Nigel won't accept the other's form of Brexit, which is a start.
Boris' deal is not a soft brexit - far from it.
Back in the heady days of the referendum a 'soft' brexit was generally considered to be one where the UK remained in the customs union and or single market, a hard brexit where the UK left both and of course, not one was contemplating no deal as even a possibility.
So on that basis (how the 2016 referendum was fought) Boris' deal is certainly a hard brexit and as it doesn't commit to any of the key elements of the single market/customs union in the political declaration is towards the harder end of hard brexit.
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I emailed Nigel farage a few months ago saying that there were three possible ways forward now: a soft Brexit (Boris deal) a WTO Brexit or remain. It definitely looks like there is more support for remain than either of the other two options, so it's a matter of how to get there. Boris and Nigel won't accept the other's form of Brexit, which is a start.
Actually it wasn't an email, but a message to him via his website, and I didn't save it :( but I think I was saying that Remain had the largest share of all three options, so a democratic outcome would be to remain.
From what he said just now in his speech, I would suggest he might admit that remain would be better than Boris' deal, which he says isn't Brexit. So there may be hope...
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John Crace's take on the Brexit party event today.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/01/brexit-party-delusion-nigel-farage-crace-sketch
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Er....
I'll just leave this here.....
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/former-brexit-party-candidate-for-yorkshire-seat-says-she-comes-from-far-flung-star-and-aliens-are-working-with-world-governments-1-10081127
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Er....
I'll just leave this here.....
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/former-brexit-party-candidate-for-yorkshire-seat-says-she-comes-from-far-flung-star-and-aliens-are-working-with-world-governments-1-10081127
I am now at a stage with politics that this doesn't really sound odd.
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Er....
I'll just leave this here.....
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/former-brexit-party-candidate-for-yorkshire-seat-says-she-comes-from-far-flung-star-and-aliens-are-working-with-world-governments-1-10081127
absolutely crazy. On the same level as belief in the Big Sky Fairy and that bloke who came to earth to save us all 👽
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absolutely crazy. On the same level as belief in the Big Sky Fairy and that bloke who came to earth to save us all 👽
If you must insult Christians, at least be original. "Sky fairy" is a dreadful old cliche.
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If you must insult Christians, at least be original. "Sky fairy" is a dreadful old cliche.
the best shorthand available 👍
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the best shorthand available 👍
If you can't think of something original.
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Sorry it's the Fail,the only alternative when I googled was The Daily Star. Yorkshire Post asks you to register.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7628599/Tories-begging-Brexit-Party-candidates-NOT-stand-seats-chairman-Farages-party-says.html
I am now at a stage with politics that this doesn't really sound odd.
I know, I hardly raised an eyebrow.
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Er....
I'll just leave this here.....
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/former-brexit-party-candidate-for-yorkshire-seat-says-she-comes-from-far-flung-star-and-aliens-are-working-with-world-governments-1-10081127
So there are nutters in the Brexit party.
Who knew?
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If you must insult Christians, at least be original. "Sky fairy" is a dreadful old cliche.
But more polite than some I could think of! ;D
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The horrible Farage isn't going to stand as an MP in this election, probably scared he won't get voted in.
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I surmise that Farage is good at brinkmanship so he may well stand in the end. Many UKIP voters were voting for him, that party has virtually fallen apart since - no tears from me. If Nigel aligns himself with the Brexit party or stands as an independent, as long as he knows the areas, he will pick up votes.
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I surmise that Farage is good at brinkmanship so he may well stand in the end. Many UKIP voters were voting for him, that party has virtually fallen apart since - no tears from me. If Nigel aligns himself with the Brexit party or stands as an independent, as long as he knows the areas, he will pick up votes.
Farage created the Brexit party so there is no IF about him aligning himself with it.
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Westminster voting intention: CON: 38% (+3) LAB: 31% (+2) LDEM: 15% (-1) BREX: 9% (-2) GRN: 3% (-1) via
@ICMUnlimited
, 01 - 04 Nov Chgs. w/ Oct
Westminster voting intention: CON: 38% (-1) LAB: 25% (-2) LDEM: 16% (-) BREX: 11% (+4) via
@YouGov
Chgs. w/ 01 Nov
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Utterly scandalous piece of dishonesty from the Tories
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1191732381306277890.html
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I see Philip Hammond has stepped down as a Tory MP and is leaving politics.
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This with the lying video about Starmer, Rees Mogg and Andrew Bridgen (see Grenfell thread) makes it an exceptional day of cuntery by the Tories
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-politics-50302172?__twitter_impression=true
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Yes, that is bad. I don't know if we can ever get back to some sort of sanity again.
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This with the lying video about Starmer, Rees Mogg and Andrew Bridgen (see Grenfell thread) makes it an exceptional day of cuntery by the Tories
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-politics-50302172?__twitter_impression=true
Another Tory who has brought their party into disrepute. >:(
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I see the lying video of Keir Starmer has been defended as being 'satirical'. The Tory party are a disgrace.
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Alun Cairns has now stepped down, thank goodness.
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Hopefully voters in those parts of England who were, how shall we say, naive enough to vote 'Leave', and who might be tempted to vote Tory in the impending GE, will look at this - along with other recent faux pas - and taking into account the unprepossessing crew of fuckwits still holding office, will decide to treat the Tories with the contempt they deserve.
I suspect they are finished here in Scotland.
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Hopefully voters in those parts of England who were, how shall we say, naive enough to vote 'Leave', and who might be tempted to vote Tory in the impending GE, will look at this - along with other recent faux pas - and taking into account the unprepossessing crew of fuckwits still holding office, will decide to treat the Tories with the contempt they deserve.
I suspect they are finished here in Scotland.
Not sure about that - they have done a good job of representing themselves as the unionist vote and there are still people who will vote tactically to keep the SNP out - tbh anyone that does that who would rather vote LD or Lab seems a bit mad to me. I haven't seen any polls specifically for Scotland as yet, and I'm struggling to get much idea of how the vote might go here. It's just a shame that there isn't a chance for Ross Thomson to lose.
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Not sure about that - they have done a good job of representing themselves as the unionist vote and there are still people who will vote tactically to keep the SNP out - tbh anyone that does that who would rather vote LD or Lab seems a bit mad to me. I haven't seen any polls specifically for Scotland as yet, and I'm struggling to get much idea of how the vote might go here. It's just a shame that there isn't a chance for Ross Thomson to lose.
Even in the West, you'll still find the so-called 'loyalist' vote going to the Tories.
Just before the dark fell lastninght and the fireworks curfew came into force, I nipped along to the corner shop.
On my way back, I bumped into an Orangeman (literally).
He engaged me in politics, so I asked him what his intentions were.
He intended to vote Tory.
He didn't know their policies, their candidate or the secretary-in-a-state for Scotland, but he was only concerned about t the union.
I took the plunge and asked "Why?"
His answer?
"Boris will keep those Catholic B******* from taking over."
Aye........
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Even in the West, you'll still find the so-called 'loyalist' vote going to the Tories.
Just before the dark fell lastninght and the fireworks curfew came into force, I nipped along to the corner shop.
On my way back, I bumped into an Orangeman (literally).
He engaged me in politics, so I asked him what his intentions were.
He intended to vote Tory.
He didn't know their policies, their candidate or the secretary-in-a-state for Scotland, but he was only concerned about t the union.
I took the plunge and asked "Why?"
His answer?
"Boris will keep those Catholic B******* from taking over."
Aye........
That is depressing - let's hope the numbers with that outlook are too small to make any difference. Though I detest the Tories, I'm sure many in the Tory party want nothing to do with that sort of sectarianism.
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That is depressing - let's hope the numbers with that outlook are too small to make any difference. Though I detest the Tories, I'm sure many in the Tory party want nothing to do with that sort of sectarianism.
There's a depressing strain of it even at the top of the Tory party in Scotland, and there have been some in the SNP who have erred in the other way. The sectarian divide in politics that used to be Tory v Labour moved with the change and growth in the SNP to be Tory v SNP. Too many politicians who should know better use their social media presence to indulge in sectarianism via football.
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Rookie mistake
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-50306103
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Rookie mistake
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-50306103
If the blunders keep going throughout this election campaign, and it has been an encouraging start, I may end up with an overdose of schadenfreude.
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Rookie mistake
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-50306103
Aye, nice one - a pic of where the Bruce's heart is buried as a nice scene for an English Tory propaganda sheet....
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Not sure how this will play from Labour. Could be seen as tough action, might just remind people of the issue. And they need tp sort out the Vaz dithering.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50319044
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And Tom Watson stands down
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/06/tom-watson-to-quit-as-labour-deputy-leader-and-stand-down-as-mp?fbclid=IwAR17bzvH-1KbNIi5e_f_Fwt9nGz6b8iIv5SxS8sRfTRGFAtFFrIh4ebnzGE
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And Tom Watson stands down
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/06/tom-watson-to-quit-as-labour-deputy-leader-and-stand-down-as-mp?fbclid=IwAR17bzvH-1KbNIi5e_f_Fwt9nGz6b8iIv5SxS8sRfTRGFAtFFrIh4ebnzGE
I've run out of popcorn.
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Anchorman did you know that man was an orange man before you had conversation? If so how did you know, was he wearing a bowler - or had he been tango'd?
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What this election is demonstrating - in spades - is that the British political system is broken.
We have a parliamentary arrangement which encourages antagonistic behaviour in the lower chamber. The concept of "opposition" is enshrined constitutionally and physically in a world in which co-operation and collaboration are becoming more important. The historical layout of Simon de Montfort's early parliament in a church choir is no reason for the rowdy antagonism which the House of Commons promotes. This, together with a clumsy and unrepresentative "first past the post" voting system encourages the existence of just two political parties which are tribal in their policies and support.
We have ended up with two party leaders who exemplify caricatures of their party principles: one is a privileged womaniser, the other a polytechnic Trotskyite. They are each contributing to a potential brakup of the United Kingdom.
The real villain of this situation, however, is David Cameron - not for calling a referendum whose result he believed would muzzle the lunatic right wing of his party, but for failing to heed the warning of the Scottish referendum. Had he convened a Royal Commission to consider the constitutional arrangements required for good governance of a complex family of closely related countries and cultures in the 21st century, he might bee remembered as a great reforming statesman. Instead he opted for a sticking plaster - EVEL. And he is remembered as an idiot.
,
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And one of the issues with EVEL is that should Swinson somehow become PM then she can't vote on certain pieces of legislation. It's a guddle.
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'Viewers in Scotland have their own programme'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50327937
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If you are an ex Labour MP saying vote Tory, then I fail to see in what sense you were ever Labour
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50330007
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Anchorman did you know that man was an orange man before you had conversation? If so how did you know, was he wearing a bowler - or had he been tango'd?
Oh, I know, Robbie.
Unfortunately, my town is small enough so that everyone has a nodding aquaintance with everyone else. We have the blight or orangeism in our area...despite both the Church of Scotland and RC Churches co-operating, sharing events - even having clerics in each other's pulpits.
I don't know about tangoed - but certainly overdoesd on Red Bull if nothing else!
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I see Chris Williamson has said he will stand as an independent in Derby North, and asked the Labour Party not to stand against him!
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We are having a bidding war on spending. The sentence that says 'Labour is adding a cool £150bn to its investment plans over five years, a very big sum' is almost enchanting in its awfulness.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50325059
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I think this election is the most eye wateringly awful one since I came to live in the UK 50 years ago. :o
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Pretty much but it doesn't seem to make much difference
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/general-election-tories-rees-mogg-bridgen-boris-johnson-cleverly-satire-a9193906.html
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And then this
https://news.yahoo.com/brexit-boris-johnson-sparks-anger-091447429.html
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Looking at the reports of what Johnson said in NI it is hard to know whether he is just overtly lying for convenience, as usual, or whether he is so unaware of what 'his' deal actually says that he simply doesn't know the details to begin with but is happy to just make it up as he goes along.
If the arrangements for NI are so good, as he says, then one wonders why he is so intent on restricting these benefits to NI alone.
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Looking at the reports of what Johnson said in NI it is hard to know whether he is just overtly lying for convenience, as usual, or whether he is so unaware of what 'his' deal actually says that he simply doesn't know the details to begin with but is happy to just make it up as he goes along.
If the arrangements for NI are so good, as he says, then one wonders why he is so intent on restricting these benefits to NI alone.
IIRC during the referendum Johnson was offering a soft exit, with the UK remaining in the single market?
I think he just says what sounds good at any time - ignoring any details or inconveniences. A flaw that caused Gove to ditch him during the Con leadership campaign in 2016.
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Pretty much but it doesn't seem to make much difference
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/general-election-tories-rees-mogg-bridgen-boris-johnson-cleverly-satire-a9193906.html
What doesn't make much difference? They are trying to occupy the media space, even if it is with shit.
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We are having a bidding war on spending. The sentence that says 'Labour is adding a cool £150bn to its investment plans over five years, a very big sum' is almost enchanting in its awfulness.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50325059
Never Never Land
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What this election is demonstrating - in spades - is that the British political system is broken.
...
Yes. It's Punch and Judy not a council of the wise.
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What doesn't make much difference? They are trying to occupy the media space, even if it is with shit.
Apologies, I wasn't clear there - I agree - even if it's shit, and lying shit, and they get caught out on it, it doesn't make much difference to voters and gets them noticed by others.
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Vetting is important
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/tories-announce-candidate-who-once-said-women-should-keep-their-knickers-on-to-avoid-rape/07/11/?doing_wp_cron=1573124170.3347940444946289062500&fbclid=IwAR1juhFwL9GLQ5xlAeLUlbWtrb2vAiZqS-KF2G4u3mHgyaLN1TX6fqq8TD0
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Tired and emotional?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50344110
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Not sure why they took so long to publish this
New Scottish Westminster poll, YouGov 23-25 Oct (changes vs 30 Aug - 3 Sep / vs GE2017); SNP - 42% (-1 / +5) Con - 22% (+2 / -7) LD - 13% (+1 / +6) Lab - 12% (-3 / -15) Brex - 6% (nc / +6) Grn - 4% (nc / +4)
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Westminster voting intention: CON: 40% (-) LAB: 30% (+1) LDEM: 15% (+1) BREX: 8% (-1) GRN: 3% (-) via
@Panelbase
, 06 - 08 Nov Chgs. w/ 31 Oct
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Meanwhile in Rotherham
https://unherd.com/2019/11/labours-fun-feminists-are-enabling-exploitation/
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Meanwhile in Rotherham
https://unherd.com/2019/11/labours-fun-feminists-are-enabling-exploitation/
Another right-wing twat claiming he loved the Labour party until Corbyn came along. How very oriiginal.
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Another right-wing twat claiming he loved the Labour party until Corbyn came along. How very oriiginal.
It's a she. And you're missing the point of the story.
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Max Hastings on Boris:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR3znb21-OEnOG8fUj3UgnPqeioifPX7c8fjz1H6q_rpmK8I31gwKioc8cM
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Trent, that article is very good.
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Trent, that article is very good.
I thought so. Always rated Hastings despite his leanings.
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Westminster Voting Intention:
CON: 41% (-1)
LAB: 29% (+3)
LDM: 15% (-1)
BXP: 6% (-3)
GRN: 2% (=)
Via
@OpiniumResearch
, 6-8 Nov.
Changes w/ 30 Oct-1 Nov.
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Brexit Party standing in no Tory seats - what a surprise!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50377396
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I see the BBC managed to splice in pictures of Johnson placing a wreath in 2016 into coverage of the 2019 ceremony where he managed to put it upside down
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Brexit Party standing in no Tory seats - what a surprise!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50377396
A big surprise, NOT!
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I see the BBC managed to splice in pictures of Johnson placing a wreath in 2016 into coverage of the 2019 ceremony where he managed to put it upside down
For which the Beeb has apologised.
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For which the Beeb has apologised.
If it had been Corbyn, we would have had the 'gaffe' on the front pages.
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I like the Beeb and don't think it is biased.
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I like the Beeb and don't think it is biased.
Not just the BBC, Corbyn got slated at a previous ceremony for not bowing enough.
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Westminster voting intention: CON: 36% (-) LAB: 29% (+1) LDEM: 17% (-) BREX: 11% (+1) via
@ComRes
, 30 Oct - 05 Nov Chgs. w/ 31 Oct
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I like the Beeb and don't think it is biased.
Look something LR likes!
You must be a little naive if you can't see the inherent bias highlighted by this "mistake".
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Look something LR likes!
You must be a little naive if you can't see the inherent bias highlighted by this "mistake".
I don't think the BBC is biased at all. I like many things, look at my wonders of nature thread.
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I don't think the BBC is biased at all. I like many things, look at my wonders of nature thread.
Yes we know you don't think the BBC is biased, but can you explain why you think that? Otherwise it is mere assertion. As pointed out by NS earlier Corbyn would have received very different coverage had he made a mistake.
I also would hark back to a previous discussion about the way the two leaders are identified. Listen for the number of times Johnson is called "Boris" and the number of times Jeremy is called "Corbyn" and also listen closely to the inflections used.
You are not listening closely enough if you think there is no bias at work.
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Yes we know you don't think the BBC is biased, but can you explain why you think that? Otherwise it is mere assertion. As pointed out by NS earlier Corbyn would have received very different coverage had he made a mistake.
I also would hark back to a previous discussion about the way the two leaders are identified. Listen for the number of times Johnson is called "Boris" and the number of times Jeremy is called "Corbyn" and also listen closely to the inflections used.
You are not listening closely enough if you think there is no bias at work.
I cannot see any bias at all, Boris seems to receive as much criticism as Corbyn does. This morning for instance, it was stated on the Radio 4 news that Boris is having a Cobra meeting at Corbyn's behest to discuss the terrible flooding in Doncaster, which is a danger to life. It was made quite clear that Boris was extremely remiss in having to be urged to do so by Corbyn.
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Farage was apparently offered a peerage at the weekend - so he was being offered an hour and tax free sinecure to do some form of a deal? And this is democracy?
At the same time he isn't giving the 100 quid back to candidates he's just stood down, or recompensing them for any expenditure taken up to now. Shyster!
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Farage was apparently offered a peerage at the weekend - so he was being offered an hour and tax free sinecure to do some form of a deal? And this is democracy?
At the same time he isn't giving the 100 quid back to candidates he's just stood down, or recompensing them for any expenditure taken up to now. Shyster!
Some suggestion that some of those jilted Brexit candidates might end up as UKIP candidates in the same seats. :o
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Farage was apparently offered a peerage at the weekend - so he was being offered an hour and tax free sinecure to do some form of a deal? And this is democracy?
At the same time he isn't giving the 100 quid back to candidates he's just stood down, or recompensing them for any expenditure taken up to now. Shyster!
If that is correct the world has gone completely bonkers! :o
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If that is correct the world has gone completely bonkers! :o
I would suggest corrupt is a better word
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Some suggestion that some of those jilted Brexit candidates might end up as UKIP candidates in the same seats. :o
I hope they sue Farage
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Meanwhile in Rotherham
https://unherd.com/2019/11/labours-fun-feminists-are-enabling-exploitation/
When was Julie Bindell elected spokesperson for all women and the final arbiter of who is a feminist? The aim should be to remove any economic pressures that make some women feel that such employment is their best realistic option. Then we could be more confident that any women involved were there of their own choice. I heard a couple of dancers being interviewed several months ago on, I think, PM. They were furious at the "feminists" who had filmed them in their club and published the films on-line. And I don't think the possibility of women being put into riskier situations by the closure of the club can be so easily dismissed.
That she refers to Corbyn's candidate and not the Labour candidate is telling. It's beyond me why some who claim to care about the people who live in this country happily play into the narratives promulgated by a corrupt, disreputable establishment. Corbyn's awful, isn't he, perhaps we should vote for the lying sociopath party who've been asset-stripping the country for the last 9 years. What a conundrum.
Re wreath-gate - I saw a comment on this suggesting it was a coded cry for help from the BBC. It was so obvious it's beyond belief whoever edited that footage didn't realise it would be spotted. Though I suppose it did avoid the BBC actually showing Johnson, who looked like he'd slept in a hedge, messing up his not-very-complicated role at the cenotaph. I thought party leaders were held to such high standards on Remembrance Day...
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Westminster voting intention: CON: 35% (+1) LAB: 29% (+3) LDEM: 17% (-2) BREX: 10% (-2) GRN: 1% (-) via
@Survation
, 06 - 08 Nov Chgs. w/ 30 Oct
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Farewell Brexit Party
Westminster voting intention: CON: 42% (+3) LAB: 28% (+2) LDEM: 15% (-2) BREX: 4% (-6) GRN: 4% (-) via @YouGov, 11 - 12 Nov Chgs. w/ 08 Nov.
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Farewell Brexit Party
Westminster voting intention: CON: 42% (+3) LAB: 28% (+2) LDEM: 15% (-2) BREX: 4% (-6) GRN: 4% (-) via @YouGov, 11 - 12 Nov Chgs. w/ 08 Nov.
Farewell Brexit and Tories would be on my wish list.
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Maybe we could have a split in the Lib Dems?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liberal-democrats-leader-general-election-news-remain-members-latest-a9201146.html
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Farewell Brexit and Tories would be on my wish list.
Now what was that old saying, something like, 'don't count your chickens'.
Regards, ippy.
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When was Julie Bindell elected spokesperson for all women and the final arbiter of who is a feminist? The aim should be to remove any economic pressures that make some women feel that such employment is their best realistic option. Then we could be more confident that any women involved were there of their own choice. I heard a couple of dancers being interviewed several months ago on, I think, PM. They were furious at the "feminists" who had filmed them in their club and published the films on-line. And I don't think the possibility of women being put into riskier situations by the closure of the club can be so easily dismissed.
That she refers to Corbyn's candidate and not the Labour candidate is telling. It's beyond me why some who claim to care about the people who live in this country happily play into the narratives promulgated by a corrupt, disreputable establishment. Corbyn's awful, isn't he, perhaps we should vote for the lying sociopath party who've been asset-stripping the country for the last 9 years. What a conundrum.
Re wreath-gate - I saw a comment on this suggesting it was a coded cry for help from the BBC. It was so obvious it's beyond belief whoever edited that footage didn't realise it would be spotted. Though I suppose it did avoid the BBC actually showing Johnson, who looked like he'd slept in a hedge, messing up his not-very-complicated role at the cenotaph. I thought party leaders were held to such high standards on Remembrance Day...
Love the asset stripping comment, hadn't thought of them in that light but you're right and if they can't win an election with a main opponent like Jeremy Corbyn? Jeremy, what a gift to the Tories.
At this moment, today only, it seems to be going brexit, but that's today? I'll only believe the result when we hear it the day after.
Regards, ippy
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My eldest daughter is giving a talk to her Guides tonight about Parliament and general elections. I said all they need to know is that what politicians promise in the run up to an election is to get the voters on side. More often than not when in Government they make excuses as to why they can't follow through with those promises. ::)
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My eldest daughter is giving a talk to her Guides tonight about Parliament and general elections. I said all they need to know is that what politicians promise in the run up to an election is to get the voters on side. More often than not when in Government they make excuses as to why they can't follow through with those promises. ::)
I doubt that would be enough to earn a badge though :)
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I doubt that would be enough to earn a badge though :)
Good, I sewed on all her badges when she was a child, the sewing badge was about the only one she didn't get. ;D
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North East Somerset, constituency voting intention: LDEM: 39% (+29) CON: 39% (-14) LAB: 18% (-17) GRN: 5% (+3) IND: 1% (+1) via @YouGov, 6-10 Nov Chgs w/ GE2017
Rees-Mogg's seat
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Quite bizarre take from Umunna, given that ex Tory Govt ministers are in the Lib Dems, and Swinson voted for cuts when in coalition
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/chuka-umunna-lib-dems-election-independent-remain-alliance-tories-welfare-benefits_uk_5dcc4c18e4b03a7e0293e7cd?ncid=other_twitter_cooo9wqtham&utm_campaign=share_twitter
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I saw Luciana Berger interviewed, she said they can't support Rosie Duffield in Canterbury, as she wants Corbyn in Downing St. So the Lib Dems oppose Corbyn, not Brexit? Of course, the original Lib Dem candidate stood down, Boris is grinning.
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North East Somerset, constituency voting intention: LDEM: 39% (+29) CON: 39% (-14) LAB: 18% (-17) GRN: 5% (+3) IND: 1% (+1) via @YouGov, 6-10 Nov Chgs w/ GE2017
Rees-Mogg's seat
Ree-Smug could be on his way out! :D :D :D
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I saw Luciana Berger interviewed, she said they can't support Rosie Duffield in Canterbury, as she wants Corbyn in Downing St. So the Lib Dems oppose Corbyn, not Brexit? Of course, the original Lib Dem candidate stood down, Boris is grinning.
I can see there being a few people who will leave the LDs because of this - the influx of MPs from Labour and Tories to them seems to have removed any clarity that there was (and other than Brexit there was little of that. I suppose though the problem is that the Labour position still seems quite Brexity, and for the LDs that is problematic. The idea that they could support the Labour party but not its leader was always going to cause problems with any deal
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Ree-Smug could be on his way out! :D :D :D
Given that Labour finished second in the set by a distance ahead of the LDs, it's politically impossible for them to stand aside on the basis of an opinion poll, but I would have thought the Greens might stand down.
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In the strange world of this election, it's been made to easy to forget that this is not just about Brexit. In another election, I would have presumed that the news about the A&E wait times would have a major effect. In this one, who knows.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50397856
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From the BBC's running reporting thread on the Election
"It's been a morning of nursery rhymes and small mammals for the prime minister, who has been visiting a school near Taunton in Somerset.
He held Rosie the rabbit (who he said was "very well behaved") in a classroom at West Monkton Primary School, and sang a song about Peter Rabbit with pupils - but notably did not partake in the corresponding "bunny ears" hand action.
Mr Johnson suggested singing The Wheels On The Bus, taking the opportunity to joke: "The wheels are staying very much on the bus."
He was accompanied by Rebecca Pow, the Conservative candidate seeking re-election for Taunton Deane, who joked that the children were better singers than the prime minister.
Mr Johnson revealed he cannot solve a Rubik's Cube "for toffee" while watching a pupil complete it in around two minutes, and - while talking about the children's favourite books - asked whether they had the Incredible Hulk.
One child shouted "boobies" while looking at a copy of the book, to which Mr Johnson replied: "Those aren't boobies, they are muscles."
Chants of "Boris out" could be heard from outside the schools, where Labour, Lib Dem and climate change activists had gathered."
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Good piece by Stephen Bush
"Good morning. Boris Johnson accused Jeremy Corbyn of planning to hold two referendums in 2020 (one on Brexit, and a second on Scottish independence), but all anyone is talking about is masturbation, after CCHQ trailed that the Prime Minister would refer to those referendums as an act of “onanism”.
There are a lot of questionable choices here. The two referendums charge - unlike the trillion pounds of spending, or Priti Patel's false claim today that Labour will extend the free movement of people across the world - has the rare benefit of being true. Unless Labour wins a parliamentary majority, which is highly unlikely given the strength of the SNP, they will be dependent on the support of other political parties - that means another independence referendum for the SNP and another Brexit referendum for everyone else.
But it's not clear to me, from either the polls or my travels across the country, that it is in the Conservatives' interests to paint Labour as the party of a second referendum. The Tories look to be at or near the upper limit of what they can win from Leave voters - they enjoy a consistent opinion poll lead because some Remainers who voted Labour in 2017 aren't at the moment. Now, for some of those voters, they are rejecting Labour for other reasons, chiefly among them antisemitism. But the reality is for most, lack of trust over Brexit is the major issue. Attacking Labour as the party of a second referendum looks highly risky on the Conservatives' part.
The second questionable choice is that word “onanism”. The point and purpose of Johnson's use of arcane words and toilet humour during his days on Have I Got News For You or before he became Prime Minister was to send a simple message: that he is not like other Tories. He's a cuddly Tory, a fun Tory! But wasn't the message yesterday meant to be about how a Labour vote means two referendums in 2020? Do people in those must-win marginals hit by the floods want to vote for a fun Tory? Don't they want a serious Prime Minister who can get the house in order, literally and figuratively.
We know that Johnson is good at selling Brand Boris. But he could yet come undone if he can't reliably sell Brand Tory. "
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And a thread that is an excellent summary of UK politics
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1195025481147523078.html
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We need to talk about dying
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/life-expectancy-uk-mortality-rate-health-foundation-lse-report-a9201701.html
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The Tories have announced £500 million to 'reverse the Beeching cuts'. How much is HS2 costing? I suspect a magnitude out.
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The Tories have announced £500 million to 'reverse the Beeching cuts'. How much is HS2 costing? I suspect a magnitude out.
You can't reverse the Beeching cuts. Most of the lines and stations have been built over. There's no room to replace them.
Oh, and to answer your question about HS2, it's roughly £403 million per mile. I suspect two orders of magnitude.
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You can't reverse the Beeching cuts. Most of the lines and stations have been built over. There's no room to replace them.
Oh, and to answer your question about HS2, it's roughly £403 million per mile. I suspect two orders of magnitude.
Or even three.
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You can't reverse the Beeching cuts. Most of the lines and stations have been built over. There's no room to replace them.
Oh, and to answer your question about HS2, it's roughly £403 million per mile. I suspect two orders of magnitude.
A few lines have been reinstated. HS2 is a huge white elephant, and should be scrapped, but more branch lines is a good idea.
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How should railways and transport be organised and run? How should digital be organised and run? NHS? Education?
Why do I get the impression that no-one has actually thought anything through without being already invested in one fantasy or other?
As it is Xmas we are now being showered with borrowed billions inevitably to be spent on grafters dishing out crap!
Politicians have had forever to sort out this stuff but never actually discuss the issues, only who should be in charge.
Somewhat frustrated.
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How should railways and transport be organised and run? How should digital be organised and run? NHS? Education?
Why do I get the impression that no-one has actually thought anything through without being already invested in one fantasy or other?
As it is Xmas we are now being showered with borrowed billions inevitably to be spent on grafters dishing out crap!
Politicians have had forever to sort out this stuff but never actually discuss the issues, only who should be in charge.
Somewhat frustrated.
Cone now, Udayana, we're being offered lots of free stuff, and milk, and honey, and bendy bananas. We are living in blessed times where our political leaders combine the wisdom of Solomon, the allure of Cleopatra, and the dribbling skills of Stanley Matthews.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50433951
What a ghastly man, I hope the Church of Scotland kicks him out. ;D
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Westminster voting intention: CON: 41% (+1) LAB: 33% (+3) LDEM: 14% (-2) BREX: 5% (-2) GRN: 2% (-1) via
@SavantaComRes
, 13 - 14 Nov Chgs. w/ 12 Nov
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Here's hoping they manage it.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/17/view-from-uxbridge-young-voters-battle-to-oust-boris-johnson
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Davidson doesn't really seem to get ethical behaviour
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/ruth-davidson-under-fire-over-unprecedented-payment-general-election-pundit-1174483
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Davidson doesn't really seem to get ethical behaviour
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/ruth-davidson-under-fire-over-unprecedented-payment-general-election-pundit-1174483
Er....Capitalism in action?
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Hmm...
https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/17/boris-johnson-met-alexander-lebedev-without-security-after-nato-summit
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Westminster voting intention: CON: 42% LAB: 28% LDEM: 13% BREX: 5% GRN: 3% via
@Survation
, 14 - 16 Nov
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Westminster voting intention: CON: 42% LAB: 28% LDEM: 13% BREX: 5% GRN: 3% via
@Survation
, 14 - 16 Nov
I think I might request that you stop posting the opinion polls. It's all too grim.
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I think I might request that you stop posting the opinion polls. It's all too grim.
I just need people to share my pain
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I just need people to share my pain
Why don't you stop looking at them so your don't cause yourself an injury? ;D
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Why don't you stop looking at them so your don't cause yourself an injury? ;D
More likely my tablets or phone that would be injured ;)
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More likely my tablets or phone that would be injured ;)
I know what you mean, I am sick to death of hearing about the election and Brexit, I know it is important to know what is going on, but I still feel like throwing something at my laptop or the TV screen.
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Cone now, Udayana, we're being offered lots of free stuff, and milk, and honey, and bendy bananas. We are living in blessed times where our political leaders combine the wisdom of Solomon, the allure of Cleopatra, and the dribbling skills of Stanley Matthews.
Is he the bloke who used to run a Guantanamo Bay type place for 'bootiful' turkeys?
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Is he the bloke who used to run a Guantanamo Bay type place for 'bootiful' turkeys?
Stanley's, the wizard of the wings, defensive supremo brother Bernard.
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;D
I know what you mean, I am sick to death of hearing about the election and Brexit, I know it is important to know what is going on, but I still feel like throwing something at my laptop or the TV screen.
Agree. Plus we have HRH Andy and BJ, wonder what will come next?
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I don't know whether anyone has posted this before, apologies if they have but this site is astonishing:
https://boris-johnson-lies.com/
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I don't know whether anyone has posted this before, apologies if they have but this site is astonishing:
https://boris-johnson-lies.com/
Boris has been taking lessons from his White house pal! >:(
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If we are lucky there will be no candidates left. This sort of stuff is so frequent that it shows up the vetting procedures to be pretty crap.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-50468770?__twitter_impression=true
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Then again when you can still be a possible cabinet minister and say this...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2416737/amp/Michael-Gove-food-banks-Poor-got-blame.html?__twitter_impression=true
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We have just had a visit from our local Labour MP. I sent him an e-mail the other day saying we would support him as he is a good MP. I reminded him of the time 11 years when he visited us at our previous property as I had a neighbourhood issue I wished to discuss with him. I was looking afterour baby granddaughter, he walked the floor with her whilst I made him a cuppa. Anyway I got an e-mail back saying he would be in our area this afternoon and I would probably see him, which we did. I told him I wished he was the leader of the Labour Party, but didn't expect a comment. However, he surprised me by saying he didn't think Corbyn would be leader much longer, WOW!
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Arghh!
Conservative 45% (+8) Labour 27% (-) Lib Dem 16% (-1) Green 3% (-) Brexit Party 2% (-7) Kantar Nov 14-18 #ge2019
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Arghh!
Conservative 45% (+8) Labour 27% (-) Lib Dem 16% (-1) Green 3% (-) Brexit Party 2% (-7) Kantar Nov 14-18 #ge2019
Corbyn will almost certainly be booted out if the Tories win the election, HEAVEN HELP US! :o
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Corbyn will almost certainly be booted out if the Tories win the election, HEAVEN HELP US! :o
I suspect dependent on the result he's more likely to resign.
Anyway the Tories, mmm
https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2019/11/18/food-bank-use-has-soared-by-3800-and-child-poverty-is-up-38-under-conservative-rule/
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I hear the TV interview last night went really well for both candidates, NOT.
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Imteresting little speculation
https://unherd.com/2019/11/what-if-everyone-loses-this-election/
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I suspect this election will solve nothing in any definitive sense and, moreover, it seems impossible to predict - but there are possibilities that could open up new issues or accentuate current one.
For instance, and leaving aside NI given the unique political climate there, it could be the case that the Tories win a majority and bash on with the Brexit madness but there are no Tory MP's outwith England. Perhaps the Tories win a narrow majority but their key Brexit players, including Johnson, lose their seats. Then there are the permutations involving a hung parliament.
Get your popcorn in!
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I suspect this election will solve nothing in any definitive sense and, moreover, it seems impossible to predict - but there are possibilities that could open up new issues or accentuate current one.
For instance, and leaving aside NI given the unique political climate there, it could be the case that the Tories win a majority and bash on with the Brexit madness but there are no Tory MP's outwith England. Perhaps the Tories win a narrow majority but their key Brexit players, including Johnson, lose their seats. Then there are the permutations involving a hung parliament.
Get your popcorn in!
Obviously things may change but where I was thinking at the start that it would be a small Tory majority it begins to feel more and more as if it will be a substantial majority. I also think that with that a hard brexit becomes a real possibility.
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We have just had a Brexit party leaflet through the door sporting a photo of Farage and Widdicombe. >:( We are trying to work out how to dispose of it matching the amount of disgust we experiencing. Flushing it down the loo is a consideration, but one is mindful that it might pollute the sewer. Any suggestions?
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I went to bed quite happy last night, after checking Twitter and seeing that in an ITV poll of 30,000 viewers 75% gave Corbyn the "win". I awoke this morning to the BBC and YouGov (co-founded by Nadhim Zahawi and another pal of Jeffery Archer) reporting a draw and The Metro claiming Johnson won "by a whisker".
Dominic Raab says nobody "gives a toss" about the Tories changing their campaign Twitter handle to FactCheckUK.
The only people who have any reason to vote Conservative are those with a vested interest in making rich people richer. There must be a reason why the massed ranks of the British Establishment are manipulating news, lying, smearing and laughing in our faces about it. In my opinion it's because Corbyn can't be relied on to lie in the interests of the rich and powerful.
I watched about two-thirds of the interview with Prince Andrew, I had to turn it off as my skin was crawling. And people wonder how Jimmy Saville got away with it for so long. I think that comment is relevant to the coming election, by the way, not a derail.
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I went to bed quite happy last night, after checking Twitter and seeing that in an ITV poll of 30,000 viewers 75% gave Corbyn the "win". I awoke this morning to the BBC and YouGov (co-founded by Nadhim Zahawi and another pal of Jeffery Archer) reporting a draw and The Metro claiming Johnson won "by a whisker".
Dominic Raab says nobody "gives a toss" about the Tories changing their campaign Twitter handle to FactCheckUK.
The only people who have any reason to vote Conservative are those with a vested interest in making rich people richer. There must be a reason why the massed ranks of the British Establishment are manipulating news, lying, smearing and laughing in our faces about it. In my opinion it's because Corbyn can't be relied on to lie in the interests of the rich and powerful.
I watched about two-thirds of the interview with Prince Andrew, I had to turn it off as my skin was crawling. And people wonder how Jimmy Saville got away with it for so long. I think that comment is relevant to the coming election, by the way, not a derail.
To be precise about Raab what he said was nobody gives a toss about Twitter cut and thrust, and while it's an exaggeration, I think in one sense he's right. The vast majority of people see Twitter as a distraction and don't really care what goes on on it. They won't see this as much more than political parties doing what political parties do. I suspect they will be happy that it's getting the attention.
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I awoke this morning to the BBC and YouGov (co-founded by Nadhim Zahawi and another pal of Jeffery Archer) reporting a draw ...
While factually accurate on the original founders of yougov it doesn't tell the whole story. For most of its existence the key players in yougov were Stephan Shakespeare (CEO and indeed a Tory) and Peter Kelner (Chair). Peter isn't involved anymore, but was President until a couple of years ago. Peter is a load-standing Labour supporter (not sure whether he remains so under Corbyn) and indeed his wife is an ex Labour minister.
Peter was always the media face of yougov and they were regularly portrayed as pro Labour as a result.
But actually all this is non-sense. If you run a polling organisation the value in that business is your ability to poll accurately. The moment anyone suspects you add a deliberate bias to your polls your value as a business is gone. So regardless of the political affiliations of those running polling organisations they will ensure that the polling organisation in question is free of political bias in their polling.
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This election just gets weirder
https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/20/ralf-little-suspended-twitter-pretending-tory-party-press-office-11187105/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
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To be precise about Raab what he said was nobody gives a toss about Twitter cut and thrust, and while it's an exaggeration, I think in one sense he's right. The vast majority of people see Twitter as a distraction and don't really care what goes on on it. They won't see this as much more than political parties doing what political parties do. I suspect they will be happy that it's getting the attention.
That 'vast majority' tends to shrink as you get younger, where the 'vast majority' don't follow the conventional print or broadcast media.
O.
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That 'vast majority' tends to shrink as you get younger, where the 'vast majority' don't follow the conventional print or broadcast media.
O.
But then older people are more likely to vote. Twitter is its own echo chamber and actions on it aren't taken as seriously by those who don't use it, who use it but in ways that don't relate to politics. The story about it is all over conventional media but I think that many of those who use it won't see it as a big thing either.
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My husband and I have a postal vote, so much easier for us.
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Not sure about this. There is a take that Scottish politics are becoming more Ulsterised (I think that underestimates the previous similarity) and I remember when there were sermons to vote Labour but I cannot see that if a church has certain values that it can or should avoid talking about them.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18046887.bishops-advise-catholics-not-vote-tories-general-election/?ref=twtrec
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This election just gets weirder
https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/20/ralf-little-suspended-twitter-pretending-tory-party-press-office-11187105/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
"Press orifice"! :D
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Did anyone see Farage on Question Time Leaders' Special this week? He seemed to be stating that he wanted Britain to be free to "make its own laws" and free of ECJ interference by leaving the EU...even though the ECJ has found in his favour in a court case
https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/parliament-guilty-of-bias-against-farage-group-over-eu-cash-ecj-rules/
The ECJ rules on upholding EU laws such as free movement of people and can block deportation of European criminals.
http://theconversation.com/when-britain-can-deport-eu-citizens-according-to-the-law-86896
What I am not clear on is how leaving the EU will change the role of the European Convention on Human Rights in British laws. A lot of people seemed frustrated during the referendum on decisions made by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) that prevented the deportation of criminals e.g. as it would breach Article 8 of the Convention - right to family life.
How much does this issue influence your voting decision?
ETA - I voted remain but I can see why someone this issue might prompt someone to vote Leave - but if we leave and the deal reached with the EU stops free movement of people, how do people who voted Brexit feel about the ECHR continuing to be involved in some deportation cases - as leaving the EU does not mean leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, which has been incorporated into UK law by our Parliament.
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Did anyone see Farage on Question Time Leaders' Special this week? He seemed to be stating that he wanted Britain to be free to "make its own laws" and free of ECJ interference by leaving the EU...even though the ECJ has found in his favour in a court case
https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/parliament-guilty-of-bias-against-farage-group-over-eu-cash-ecj-rules/
The ECJ rules on upholding EU laws such as free movement of people and can block deportation of European criminals.
http://theconversation.com/when-britain-can-deport-eu-citizens-according-to-the-law-86896
What I am not clear on is how leaving the EU will change the role of the European Convention on Human Rights in British laws. A lot of people seemed frustrated during the referendum on decisions made by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) that prevented the deportation of criminals e.g. as it would breach Article 8 of the Convention - right to family life.
How much does this issue influence your voting decision?
Good to see you posting again. The whole ECHR question is one of those where politicians make sure the issue is confused so that people just see it as part of the Europe nonsense. Farage has been foremost on this.
I'm not really voting on Brexit at all in this election since I would never vote Tory, and regard the Brexit Party as a scam rather than a political party. It's about the rest of the policies for me, and the individuals standing in my constituency. In another seat I might look at tactical voting for a non Brexit supporting party but that doesn't apply in my constituency.
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Thanks NS - yes I finally found/ made some time to come back and post and good to see the place is buzzing. I have been reading stuff on and off - especially on the Trans thread.
I am in a Labour borough - I like my MP - but also find myself torn between my opposition to certain Labour policies (education) and my distaste at voting Conservative, though I am drawn to the Conservative party's sudden tougher talk on law and order - there have been a lot of stabbings, muggings and break-ins in my area although it is still relatively safe compared to other areas. At the top of my road, an elderly couple were broken into at 3am by a group of men who threatened to stab them with a screwdriver if they did not hand over money and valuables. School boys regularly get mugged by groups of older kids/ young men.
Difficult to know how to prioritise local vs national issues, In the past in different elections I have voted Tory, Labour, Lib-Dem.
I was listening to a podcast about the ECHR - I think you are right that this issue has been confusing. I am not sure if the Brexit Party or any Leave voters have articulated their views on this issue somewhere.
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Thanks NS - yes I finally found/ made some time to come back and post and good to see the place is buzzing. I have been reading stuff on and off - especially on the Trans thread.
I am in a Labour borough - I like my MP - but also find myself torn between my opposition to certain Labour policies (education) and my distaste at voting Conservative, though I am drawn to the Conservative party's sudden tougher talk on law and order - there have been a lot of stabbings, muggings and break-ins in my area although it is still relatively safe compared to other areas. At the top of my road, an elderly couple were broken into at 3am by a group of men who threatened to stab them with a screwdriver if they did not hand over money and valuables. School boys regularly get mugged by groups of older kids/ young men.
Difficult to know how to prioritise local vs national issues, In the past in different elections I have voted Tory, Labour, Lib-Dem.
I was listening to a podcast about the ECHR - I think you are right that this issue has been confusing. I am not sure if the Brexit Party or any Leave voters have articulated their views on this issue somewhere.
The problem with Tory policy on law and order is that if increasing police numbers is part of the solution then their policy caused it in part in the first place. I also don't think that getting tough is necessarily the answer and coming from a city where stabbings have substantially reduced, and a city where violence has always been an issue, that reduction has not been achieved by toughness but by adaptability.
UKIP and the Tories to some extent conflated the ECHR with all things EU in an attempt to confuse people. I don't think the Brexit party is real.
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The problem with Tory policy on law and order is that if increasing police numbers is part of the solution then their policy caused it in part in the first place. I also don't think that getting tough is necessarily the answer and coming from a city where stabbings have substantially reduced, and a city where violence has always been an issue, that reduction has not been achieved by toughness but by adaptability.
I was in NY during Giuliani's "tough" "zero-tolerance" period but don't think it was hard punitive policies that ended the crime waves - the major change was that the number of police were vastly increased. The new force recruited were basically the same kind of youths that would otherwise, jobless, have fallen into the gangs. As it was, they were everywhere in good numbers engaging positively with ordinary people - imo not "tough" at at all but changing the mindset.
UKIP and the Tories to some extent conflated the ECHR with all things EU in an attempt to confuse people. I don't think the Brexit party is real.
The conflation is deliberate of-course. There seems to be a large contingent that want to withdraw from the EHCR, they would need to leave the EU before being able to do that.
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The funding gap for the political parties is a bit big.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50508009
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The problem with Tory policy on law and order is that if increasing police numbers is part of the solution then their policy caused it in part in the first place.
I agree. And even if they increase the funding to give back some of the police numbers they cut that contributed to the rise in crime, there is a good chance that people still won't be actually prosecuted for crimes. This newspaper report says "Almost 92 per cent of offences do not result in perpetrators being charged or summonsed in England and Wales, with the number of offences taken to court dropping by almost 30,000 in a year.....Figures published by the Home Office show in the year ending September 2018 only 8.2 per cent of 5 million recorded crimes were prosecuted, down from 9.5 per cent the previous year."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/crime-statistics-uk-justice-prosecution-rates-rape-victims-disclosure-police-funding-a8747191.html
There seems to be a reducing deterrent effect on people inclined towards committing criminal acts, if the local anecdotal evidence is taken into account.
I also don't think that getting tough is necessarily the answer and coming from a city where stabbings have substantially reduced, and a city where violence has always been an issue, that reduction has not been achieved by toughness but by adaptability.
Not sure what you mean by adaptability?
UKIP and the Tories to some extent conflated the ECHR with all things EU in an attempt to confuse people. I don't think the Brexit party is real.
Part of the Brexit vote seemed to be a protest vote by sections of the public against certain judicial decisions that were perceived to the values of a liberal elite that did not have to experience the consequences of those decisions as they were more insulated by their wealth and privilege. Not really sure how to resolve that division in the country that was exacerbated by the economic crisis.
ETA: And these judicial decisions were made by UK courts without it going to the ECHR. The Human Rights Act was passed by Parliament presumably because British MPs supported the values and rights the Act protected. So not the fault of the EU. So even if we left the EU or left the European Convention on HUman Rights our judges would still interpret the existing legislation to uphold those rights under British law, unless enough MPs are elected who do not support such rights and they pass new legislation revoking the right to family life etc
ETA: Unless it is deemed that the courts are exceeding their remit in their interpretation of law.
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/nov/28/european-court-of-human-rights
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One article on the approach to knife crime in Glasgow
https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2017/dec/03/how-scotland-reduced-knife-deaths-among-young-people
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From the BBC running election commentary
"Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage is beginning his speech in London, where he is setting out the party's election policies.
Mr Farage begins by saying his party is not launching a "manifesto" because "a word association test with manifesto gave the word lie", adding that there have been too many "broken promises" in past election campaigns. "
Strangely, lie is one of the words I associate with Farage
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From the BBC running election commentary
"Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage is beginning his speech in London, where he is setting out the party's election policies.
Mr Farage begins by saying his party is not launching a "manifesto" because "a word association test with manifesto gave the word lie", adding that there have been too many "broken promises" in past election campaigns. "
Strangely, lie is one of the words I associate with Farage
BIG TME! Every time I see that horrible man on the screen I want to throw something at it. >:(
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From the BBC running election commentary
"Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage is beginning his speech in London, where he is setting out the party's election policies.
Mr Farage begins by saying his party is not launching a "manifesto" because "a word association test with manifesto gave the word lie", adding that there have been too many "broken promises" in past election campaigns. "
Strangely, lie is one of the words I associate with Farage
did you know?
A Niggly Farage is a medical condition of the gentleman area
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NSFW
https://www.thetorymanifesto.com/?fbclid=IwAR2A2qkARNB_jzhnXhLdqq1m_dXKRr9_e-pquiDsVazLXhtsworYsR58IAs
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Boris in visiting North Wales today, the Welsh dragons should get their knives and forks out take part in a tasty meal, he has plenty of flesh on his bones. ;D ;D ;D
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BIG TME! Every time I see that horrible man on the screen I want to through something at it. >:(
All of the main parties promised to honour the result of the 2016 in or out referendum, compared to the position we are now in nearly four years later wouldn't it make that promise a lie, regardless of your opinion of Nigel or Boris, whether they're good or bad men is irrelevant.
Regards, ippy.
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All of the main parties promised to honour the result of the 2016 in or out referendum, compared to the position we are now in nearly four years later wouldn't it make that promise a lie, regardless of your opinion of Nigel or Boris, whether they're good or bad men is irrelevant.
Regards, ippy.
The third largest party by members and elected representatives, made no such promise.
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Remainer.
The third largest party by members and elected representatives, made no such promise.
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A chip shop owner in South Yorkshire has offered free fish and chips to people who vote for the Brexit party. :evil: He has been reported to the police as it is illegal to bribe people in this way.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50537324?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics&link_location=live-reporting-story
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A chip shop owner in South Yorkshire has offered free fish and chips to people who vote for the Brexit party. :evil: He has been reported to the police as it is illegal to bribe people in this way.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50537324?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics&link_location=live-reporting-story
Also pointless. That's why we have secret ballots.
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Also pointless. That's why we have secret ballots.
True, I wondered how he would guarantee those claiming a freebie had actually voted for the Brexit mob.
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True, I wondered how he would guarantee those claiming a freebie had actually voted for the Brexit mob.
He doesn't have to. He's just giving out free food to everyone if the Brexit party wins in the 2 seats in Barnsley. Nothing about having to actually vote for them.
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Remainer
Why is that relevant to Anchorman's point?
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Obviously the Chief rabbi has a right to say this, but I can't help feel that the implicit approval of the Tory party is a bit off.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50552068
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Obviously the Chief rabbi has a right to say this, but I can't help feel that the implicit approval of the Tory party is a bit off.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50552068
I agree with you. Corbyn has been very remiss in not stamping down much more firmly on anti-Semitism in his party. However, extreme right-wingers are often anti-Semitic too, Hitler wasn't known for his liberal approach to Jews!
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ho hum - so implicit approval of the Tories and their leader who speaks of watermelon smiles and grinning piccaninnies.
I guess some prejudices are more equal than others.
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I agree with you. Corbyn has been very remiss in not stamping down much more firmly on anti-Semitism in his party. However, extreme right-wingers are often anti-Semitic too, Hitler wasn't known for his liberal approach to Jews!
I don't think Hitler is the issue here - I think it's the racism in the Tory party.
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All of the main parties promised to honour the result of the 2016 in or out referendum, compared to the position we are now in nearly four years later wouldn't it make that promise a lie, regardless of your opinion of Nigel or Boris, whether they're good or bad men is irrelevant.
Regards, ippy.
Not all of them, as has been pointed out; they did so, of course, based on the premise that the election would be conducted fairly and honestly, and it turns out that didn't happen - we'd have even more proof of that if Johnson wasn't suppressing the report into Russian interference in the campaign, of course, but we have sufficient evidence from the financial irregularities in the multiple illegally co-operating Leave campaigns and the demonstrable lies churned out by the likes of Johnson and Farage.
O.
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Obviously the Chief rabbi has a right to say this, but I can't help feel that the implicit approval of the Tory party is a bit off.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50552068
He can express his feelings and of those in the Jewish community who feel similarly, however what he is doing is smearing Corbyn without substantiation. It seems completely partisan.
Where is the evidence that Corbyn is anti-Semitic or has sanctioned anti-Semitism in the Labour party?
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He can express his feelings and of those in the Jewish community who feel similarly, however what he is doing is smearing Corbyn without substantiation. It seems completely partisan.
Where is the evidence that Corbyn is anti-Semitic or has sanctioned anti-Semitism in the Labour party?
There is none.
And it is as you say partisan.
The Tories are never held accountable in the same way.
I am so sick of this election and country.
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He can express his feelings and of those in the Jewish community who feel similarly, however what he is doing is smearing Corbyn without substantiation. It seems completely partisan.
Where is the evidence that Corbyn is anti-Semitic or has sanctioned anti-Semitism in the Labour party?
I haven't seen or read the whole speech, but from the parts I've seen it doesn't seem as though he's accusing Corbyn of anti-Semitism himself, but rather of him and the Labour party in general not doing enough to fight anti-Semitism. It does seem like the media picks up the anti-Semitism claims against Labour a lot more consistently than they pick up the anti-Islam accusations against the Tories - I'm not sure if that's a deliberate move on the part of the media, or if it's a reflection of our greater anxiety regarding the historic treatment of Jews and our current general hostility towards Islam, or a combination of both.
O.
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I haven't seen or read the whole speech, but from the parts I've seen it doesn't seem as though he's accusing Corbyn of anti-Semitism himself, but rather of him and the Labour party in general not doing enough to fight anti-Semitism. It does seem like the media picks up the anti-Semitism claims against Labour a lot more consistently than they pick up the anti-Islam accusations against the Tories - I'm not sure if that's a deliberate move on the part of the media, or if it's a reflection of our greater anxiety regarding the historic treatment of Jews and our current general hostility towards Islam, or a combination of both.
O.
I was going by the article he wrote for The Times, especially where he says "It is a failure of leadership. A new poison – sanctioned from the top – has taken root in the Labour Party."
There is criticism of actions against anti-Semitism plus a couple of (disputed) figures about cases - but dismisses Labour claims: "The claims that the party is “doing everything” it reasonably can to tackle anti-Jewish racism and that it has “investigated every single case”, are a mendacious fiction"
He then goes on to say:
Many members of the Jewish community can hardly believe that this is the same party that they called their political home for more than a century. It can no longer claim to be the party of equality and anti-racism.
How far is too far? How complicit in prejudice would a leader of Her Majesty’s opposition have to be to be considered unfit for office? Would associations with those who have incited hatred against Jews be enough? Would describing as “friends” those who endorse the murder of Jews be enough? It seems not.
I expect it is the association between Corbyn and the Palestinian cause and the support for Labour within the Muslim community that is at the heart of this.
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I was going by the article he wrote for The Times, especially where he says "It is a failure of leadership. A new poison – sanctioned from the top – has taken root in the Labour Party."
Arguably, he's right. Of course, I'd also argue that it's part of a general nationalist trend in this country, for which Corbyn isn't particularly complicit (but the likes of Johnson and Farage are), which is evidenced in the general reported rise in racist incidents.
There is criticism of actions against anti-Semitism plus a couple of (disputed) figures about cases - but dismisses Labour claims: "The claims that the party is “doing everything” it reasonably can to tackle anti-Jewish racism and that it has “investigated every single case”, are a mendacious fiction"
I don't know enough about the internal workings of the Labour to be able to judge that claim, but I do feel that sometimes Corbyn's tendency to buck the absolute confidence that other politicians blithely (and disingenuously) portray doesn't help him in this instance.
He then goes on to say:
Many members of the Jewish community can hardly believe that this is the same party that they called their political home for more than a century. It can no longer claim to be the party of equality and anti-racism.
How far is too far? How complicit in prejudice would a leader of Her Majesty’s opposition have to be to be considered unfit for office? Would associations with those who have incited hatred against Jews be enough? Would describing as “friends” those who endorse the murder of Jews be enough? It seems not.
I expect it is the association between Corbyn and the Palestinian cause and the support for Labour within the Muslim community that is at the heart of this.
See, I have a slightly different take on that. To me, that reads like he doesn't expect anything better from the Tories (and others) but he does feel like he should be able to expect better from Labour - it's a sense of betrayal, rather than a sense of an injustice divorced from any personal history.
Of course, given the political leanings of the current Labour leadership, and the exploits of the current Israeli leadership, a degree of tension in light of the inevitable criticisms of the regime seems unavoidable.
O.
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I see Michael Heseltine has stated that he doesn't want the Tories to get a majority in the election.
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I see Michael Heseltine has stated that he doesn't want the Tories to get a majority in the election.
Unfortunately, as things stand, it seems a significant, Brexit-leaning portion of the usual Labour support does... :'(
O.
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Unfortunately, as things stand, it seems a significant, Brexit-leaning portion of the usual Labour support does... :'(
O.
I think you are correct, I have a nasty feeling the Tories will win this election. :o
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See, I have a slightly different take on that. To me, that reads like he doesn't expect anything better from the Tories (and others) but he does feel like he should be able to expect better from Labour - it's a sense of betrayal, rather than a sense of an injustice divorced from any personal history.
Of course, given the political leanings of the current Labour leadership, and the exploits of the current Israeli leadership, a degree of tension in light of the inevitable criticisms of the regime seems unavoidable.
O.
However, when you add in his congratulations to Johnson becoming PM. it's problematic
https://israelb.org/2019/07/chief-rabbi-mirvis-congratulates-boris-johnson/
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I see that the Muslim Council of Britain have issued a statement about the Tories and Islamophobia
"As a faith community, we commonly are threatened by Islamophobia. This an issue that is particularly acute in the Conservative Party who have approached Islamophobia with denial, dismissal and deceit," it said.
"It is abundantly clear to many Muslims that the Conservative Party tolerate Islamophobia, allow it to fester in society, and fail to put in place the measures necessary to root out this type of racism. It is as if the Conservative Party has a blind spot for this type of racism.'
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I see that the Muslim Council of Britain have issued a statement about the Tories and Islamophobia
"As a faith community, we commonly are threatened by Islamophobia. This an issue that is particularly acute in the Conservative Party who have approached Islamophobia with denial, dismissal and deceit," it said.
"It is abundantly clear to many Muslims that the Conservative Party tolerate Islamophobia, allow it to fester in society, and fail to put in place the measures necessary to root out this type of racism. It is as if the Conservative Party has a blind spot for this type of racism.'
I cant help but wonder if the Lib Dems would be well-served by publicly insulting the Zeus-worshippers, just to get some publicity - it seems like no-one particular hates them, but it also seems like there aren't many people that care one way or the other at the moment....
O.
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I think this hasn't been updated for some of the latest issues but it is quite a list of issues with candidates.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1196432005766025216.html
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I cant help but wonder if the Lib Dems would be well-served by publicly insulting the Zeus-worshippers, just to get some publicity - it seems like no-one particular hates them, but it also seems like there aren't many people that care one way or the other at the moment....
O.
The Chief Rabbi's statement remains the headline news on BBC website. The Muslim Council's statement about the Tories appeared on the running news section on the website, and is not and has never been a headline.
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I see that the Muslim Council of Britain have issued a statement about the Tories and Islamophobia
"As a faith community, we commonly are threatened by Islamophobia. This an issue that is particularly acute in the Conservative Party who have approached Islamophobia with denial, dismissal and deceit," it said.
"It is abundantly clear to many Muslims that the Conservative Party tolerate Islamophobia, allow it to fester in society, and fail to put in place the measures necessary to root out this type of racism. It is as if the Conservative Party has a blind spot for this type of racism.'
I agree with that, there should be no place in British society for Islamophobia or anti-Semitism. However extremists of any religion should be brought to book if they are causing harm to others.
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It's all about the age
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50543903
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The Chief Rabbi's statement remains the headline news on BBC website. The Muslim Council's statement about the Tories appeared on the running news section on the website, and is not and has never been a headline.
The Islamophobia complaints are probably valid but just look like whataboutery. Corbyn has given his speech in Tottenham but seems to have addressed the issue with generalities not specific actions taken or to be taken.
Labour put up an MP (didn't catch her name) to discuss antisemitism on World at One, but who clearly had no actual knowledge of any facts of interest - straight after damning interviews with Louise Ellman - who had been hounded out of the party by antisemites, and Charlie Falconer who supported the Chief Rabbi.
ISTM was all predictable before the election and should have been planned for - or maybe he has no credible responses to the criticisms and/or failures?
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It's all about the age
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50543903
And the formal education, it would seem, plays a strong part.
O.
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The Islamophobia complaints are probably valid but just look like whataboutery. Corbyn has given his speech in Tottenham but seems to have addressed the issue with generalities not specific actions taken or to be taken.
Labour put up an MP (didn't catch her name) to discuss antisemitism on World at One, but who clearly had no actual knowledge of any facts of interest - straight after damning interviews with Louise Elleman - who had been hounded out of the party by antisemites, and Charlie Falconer who supported the Chief Rabbi.
ISTM was all predictable before the election and should have been planned for - or maybe he has no credible responses to the criticisms and/or failures?
Given that the Chief Rabbi's remarks on Johnson and Corbyn give implicit support to the Tories, I think that the idea that it's whataboutery here doesn't apply. It's part of the claim.
I agree that the Labour Party have handled this badly from the start, and continue to do so.
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And the formal education, it would seem, plays a strong part.
O.
Which would be caused by the left wing elitist bias in university education according to some.
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Which would be caused by the left wing elitist bias in university education according to some.
Fascists... :P
O.
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I was in a wood yard earlier today and saw a sign on the wall, it said:
No Anti Semetic wood sizes are sold in this yard .
Crazy 😳
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There were in fact 673 allegations against Labour members reported over the previous 10 months, not all involving recent events. One allegation concerned an 8-year old incident. The number reported seems modest....In addition to the 673 there were a further 433 allegations reported to Labour that did not in fact concern Labour members. Such errors of attribution have clearly inflated perceptions of how many genuine Labour members may be antisemitic.
Of these 673 linked to Labour members, 220 (33%) were rejected because there was insufficient evidence.
So in Labour we now have 453 allegations which seem to have been handled correctly and promptly. This represents 0.08% of our 540,000 members. It rather contradicts the myth that in Labour antisemitism is “rampant”, or that it has become a “cess-pit of antisemitism” or “an unsafe place for Jews”
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/antisemitism-no-justification-for-singling-out-labour/
If these stats are correct the perceptions of people feeling afraid do not seem to have a basis in statistics. So what is causing these emotions of anxiety/ fear and how fair is it to use these emotions to denigrate the values of Corbyn and many Labour party members. If these stats are correct and therefore evidence and statistics don't matter anymore I think I have got to the point where I would not care if someone called me anti-Semitic - it would just be empty noise.
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Corbyn's interview with Andrew Neil went very badly indeed, Boris must be rubbing his hands with glee. :o
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Corbyn's interview with Andrew Neil went very badly indeed, Boris must be rubbing his hands with glee. :o
Well, Andrew Neill rarely fails to pin his own right-wing inclinations to his sleeve, but let's hope that he's professional enough to hold Johnson to the fire in the same way that he has Corbyn and Sturgeon. To be fair, on broadcast he is generally quite pressing, it's in his written work that he shows his own opinions I find.
O.
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Well, Andrew Neill rarely fails to pin his own right-wing inclinations to his sleeve, but let's hope that he's professional enough to hold Johnson to the fire in the same way that he has Corbyn and Sturgeon. To be fair, on broadcast he is generally quite pressing, it's in his written work that he shows his own opinions I find.
O.
At the end of the day whatever the politicians claim they will do when in government, and what they actually achieve are usually very different.
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Be interested to see some analysis of the documents - this could be very damaging for the Tories
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50572454
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Be interested to see some analysis of the documents - this could be very damaging for the Tories
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50572454
Very damaging indeed if that is true, the NHS is a high priority to most UK citizens.
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Be interested to see some analysis of the documents - this could be very damaging for the Tories
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50572454
I expect the Tories will just say that this type of stuff doesn't count. They're already giving a lot of our money to private healthcare providers (a family member died of cancer last year and we were all astonished to find the district nurses were employed by Virgin) but they'll claim it doesn't matter as long as the service is free at point of use. This is disingenuous at best. It's another opportunity to syphon off our taxes into billionaires' already bulging coffers, is what it is.
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I expect the Tories will just say that this type of stuff doesn't count. They're already giving a lot of our money to private healthcare providers (a family member died of cancer last year and we were all astonished to find the district nurses were employed by Virgin) but they'll claim it doesn't matter as long as the service is free at point of use. This is disingenuous at best. It's another opportunity to syphon off our taxes into billionaires' already bulging coffers, is what it is.
The prescriptions issue will be the big one if the document stands up to scrutiny.
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Jeremy Corbyn was terrible on Andrew Neil last night. He should have been well-prepared for both anti-Semitism and spending questions.
Painting a life-long campaigner against racism of all stripes as a racist is 1984-level propaganda which is being amplified by the BBC. Meanwhile, the Tories are looking to consolidate executive power if they get a majority at the election:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tory-manifesto-conservative-boris-johnson-dictator-general-election-brexit-a9216861.html
Sorry to link to an opinion piece but news stories on this real threat are hard to find. I'm not giving clicks to the Conservative party site. Given that nobody involved in the Conservative (how ironic) assault on our democracy seems worried about consequences, short or long term, I'm getting more and more concerned.
And one more thing - people on £80,000+ a year griping about paying an extra £20 a month in tax, when hundreds of people died of poverty on our streets last year and 19% of our population live in ABSOLUTE poverty
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14193
is revolting.
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Jeremy Corbyn was terrible on Andrew Neil last night. He should have been well-prepared for both anti-Semitism and spending questions.
I thought he was reasonably well-prepared - the problem is that he tries to communicate nuance and complexity, and the modern media doesn't appear to have time for that.
Painting a life-long campaigner against racism of all stripes as a racist is 1984-level propaganda which is being amplified by the BBC.
Except they weren't doing that - very few people are getting the chance to vote directly for Corby, if they want Corby they're having to vote Labour, and Labour does currently have an issue with anti-Semitism. Sure it's being played up in the press, but it's there at some level, and Labour haven't managed to get a suitable handle on it.
Meanwhile, the Tories are looking to consolidate executive power if they get a majority at the election:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tory-manifesto-conservative-boris-johnson-dictator-general-election-brexit-a9216861.html
Sorry to link to an opinion piece but news stories on this real threat are hard to find. I'm not giving clicks to the Conservative party site. Given that nobody involved in the Conservative (how ironic) assault on our democracy seems worried about consequences, short or long term, I'm getting more and more concerned.
I fear the country as a whole is shift to the right, at least in the short term - which at least in part I think is down to the New Labour abandonment of the mid-left in favour of a centrist position which shifted the balance point to the right and which we've not managed to reassert.
And one more thing - people on £80,000+ a year griping about paying an extra £20 a month in tax, when hundreds of people died of poverty on our streets last year and 19% of our population live in ABSOLUTE poverty
Where do you get the figure of 19% of the populace living in absolute poverty? Relative poverty, perhaps, although that's emblematic of the inequality in income distribution and wealth, but absolute poverty is a different measure, and unless they've massively changed the reference points they're using recently I'd be highly surprised to see it that high.
In recent times, with increases in the minimum wage and generally high employment, even relative poverty should be in decline, although both those figures and the concept of minimum wage need a serious review in light of the increased desire for companies to operate on a 'gig economy' model of not actually employing people.
All of which is not to disagree with your underlying point that the guy on Question Time (?) suggesting that he wasn't in a high income bracket for earning £80k a year is exactly the sort of entitled unaware dipshit that's permitted to vote that undermines the appeal of democracy, for me. I'm not sure what the better system is, but surely there's got to be something better than letting that sort of numpty vote for the likes of Johnson, Gove or Rees-Mogg?
O.
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14193
is revolting.
[/quote]
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Hi Outrider, sorry I've not got time to split up your reply.
I thought he was reasonably well-prepared - the problem is that he tries to communicate nuance and complexity, and the modern media doesn't appear to have time for that.
Except they weren't doing that - very few people are getting the chance to vote directly for Corby, if they want Corby they're having to vote Labour, and Labour does currently have an issue with anti-Semitism. Sure it's being played up in the press, but it's there at some level, and Labour haven't managed to get a suitable handle on it.
I fear the country as a whole is shift to the right, at least in the short term - which at least in part I think is down to the New Labour abandonment of the mid-left in favour of a centrist position which shifted the balance point to the right and which we've not managed to reassert.
Where do you get the figure of 19% of the populace living in absolute poverty? Relative poverty, perhaps, although that's emblematic of the inequality in income distribution and wealth, but absolute poverty is a different measure, and unless they've massively changed the reference points they're using recently I'd be highly surprised to see it that high.
In recent times, with increases in the minimum wage and generally high employment, even relative poverty should be in decline, although both those figures and the concept of minimum wage need a serious review in light of the increased desire for companies to operate on a 'gig economy' model of not actually employing people.
All of which is not to disagree with your underlying point that the guy on Question Time (?) suggesting that he wasn't in a high income bracket for earning £80k a year is exactly the sort of entitled unaware dipshit that's permitted to vote that undermines the appeal of democracy, for me. I'm not sure what the better system is, but surely there's got to be something better than letting that sort of numpty vote for the likes of Johnson, Gove or Rees-Mogg?
O.
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14193
is revolting.
Corbyn should have had a strategy ready for the attacks that were bound to come his way. He sounded like he was being bullied, which isn't a good look for a potential PM, I don't think.
Corbyn is being portrayed by unquestioning supporters of the state of Israel as a racist. Have a look at Rachel Riley's Twitter account for example. The BBC are effectively blaming Corbyn for every allegedly racist comment made by Labour supporters (or supposedly Labour supporters). They don't apply the same standards to the right.
The figure of 19% living in absolute poverty shocked me too, it's in the link I provided from the IFS, from a report on poverty by the Joseph Rowntree Trust. I may have misunderstood, I'll check it out again when I have time and post to correct the figure if I have.
I don't know what would be better than democracy. It generally seems to work OK in Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Norway though, so perhaps we just need a different type.
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Corbyn has dithered over making a proper apology for the anti-Semitic comments made by some members of his party, just as he has dithered about his attitude to Brexit.
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Hello again Outrider, the absolute poverty details are on page 32 of the pdf linked from the IFS page. I may still have misunderstood!
And it's the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, not Trust.
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Hi Outrider, sorry I've not got time to split up your reply.
Not a problem - this is a volunteer forum, it would be churlish to complain about anything freely given :)
Corbyn should have had a strategy ready for the attacks that were bound to come his way. He sounded like he was being bullied, which isn't a good look for a potential PM, I don't think.
He had his strategy - I don't think it's a winning one, but he is to at least some degree a man of principle and I don't think he's suddenly going to try and be the polished media star now.
Corbyn is being portrayed by unquestioning supporters of the state of Israel as a racist.
Importantly, though, that's not what Andrew Neill was accusing him of there, and he was responding to that specific allegation - he needs to do something about the links being made between Labour and anti-Semitism, but he needs to be careful about how it's done. If he pushes too hard he splits the party, if he doesn't push hard enough he risks deepening the attack.
Have a look at Rachel Riley's Twitter account for example.
I generally avoid Twatter - if something's important enough to talk to the world about, chances are it's not simple enough to cover in 280 characters.
The BBC are effectively blaming Corbyn for every allegedly racist comment made by Labour supporters (or supposedly Labour supporters).
No they aren't, they're raising other people's accusations against the party, and they're taking him to task as the leader of the party for the party's response to accusations, that's different. I think he could be well served to invite in an independent investigatory figure - it would take the onus off him, relieve him of the accusation of not showing sufficient leadership and (which I think he genuinely wants) would get to the root of anything that's actually there.
They don't apply the same standards to the right.
The BBC, in their role as the public broadcaster, are somewhat limited to the scope of what is the public discourse, and are therefore to an extent at the mercy of the same generally right-wing press as the rest of us. I think they could be making more of the accusations of Islamophobia against the Tories, for instance, but it's simply not in the public consciousness in the same way, and if they're the only media outlet holding to that line they face the accusation of being partisan from a right-wing media and a Tory party that would love the opportunity to shut them down.
The figure of 19% living in absolute poverty shocked me too, it's in the link I provided from the IFS, from a report on poverty by the Joseph Rowntree Trust. I may have misunderstood, I'll check it out again when I have time and post to correct the figure if I have.
They're citing is as 'Absolute Poverty', but it's a calculation 'After Housing Costs' - so not a direct measurement of absolute poverty, although still an indicator of the state of the low- and unpaid in the country. It's not something you could easily compare to another country's figures, however, which is how I'm used to seeing such measures.
I don't know what would be better than democracy. It generally seems to work OK in Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Norway though, so perhaps we just need a different type.
Perhaps we need a better 'demos'? I don't think Mrs O. would go for the snow, however, and as a Health and Safety Professional I'm pretty much limited to places that apply UK regulations...
O.
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Corbyn has dithered over making a proper apology for the anti-Semitic comments made by some members of his party, just as he has dithered about his attitude to Brexit.
Why would he apologise for something someone else has allegedly done?
O.
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Why would he apologise for something someone else has allegedly done?
O.
Because he is the leader of the Labour Party and responsible for what goes on in it. Boris should be apologising for racism in the Tory party.
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Corbyn has dithered over making a proper apology for the anti-Semitic comments made by some members of his party, just as he has dithered about his attitude to Brexit.
Corbyn has said he's sorry at least 3 times for any hurt or distress caused to Jewish people by antisemitism from Labour members. There doesn't actually appear to be any evidence of this alleged endemic and wide-spread racism in Labour. Jeremy Corbyn is not responsible for what every single member of his party says or does. People are entitled to criticise the actions of the state of Israel, or at least they ought to be.
I take it you don't like "dithering". Personally, I like an attempt to give honest answers to questions and a recognition that not every idea that pops into a party leader's head should be adopted immediately as policy. Corbyn has promised he will implement whatever the result of a second EU membership referendum tells him to, which I think is the only way out of this ridiculous and dangerous cul-de-sac the Tories have driven us into.
I'm hoping that we'll see a 1945 type of moment, when propaganda and lies failed to bamboozle the electorate into voting against their own interests. But I'm not betting on it and I'm very worried about the future.
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Beat me to it Christine. Corbyn has apologised which is more than can be said for the lying liar over any of his descriptive analogies. By which I mean racist comments.
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Apparently the Tory candidate in my constituency has been suspended for anti Muslim comments.
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Hi Outrider,
You make some very good points. I'll have a think about whether I'm being unfair to the BBC.
One thing about the right-wing press setting the agenda (and getting promoted hourly on Today) - if the BBC employees were doing journalism, they could take the headlines and present some relevant facts about them. They don't. They just read them out, which some might interpret as endorsement. Nick Robinson can communicate a lot with his tone of voice and the occasional avuncular chuckle.
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It appears that there is no confirmed date for an interview with Johnson by Andrew Neil, and that it may not happen. If it doesn't suggest they just put up this
https://youtu.be/ZAxA-9D4X3o
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Confirmation of the suspension of my Tory candidate. That's 2 down in Scotland so far. As I posted earlier link, there seem ti be lots this election in different parties being removed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/election-2019-50577918?__twitter_impression=true
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Confirmation of the suspension of my Tory candidate. That's 2 down in Scotland so far. As I posted earlier link, there seem ti be lots this election in different parties being removed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/election-2019-50577918?__twitter_impression=true
Pity it wasn't a Tory marginal seat.
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The perils of being a carpetbagger
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18063237.top-snp-candidate-booed-forgetting-seat-hustings/
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Arghh!
Conservative 45% (+8) Labour 27% (-) Lib Dem 16% (-1) Green 3% (-) Brexit Party 2% (-7) Kantar Nov 14-18 #ge2019
That 45% is basically everybody who wants Brexit, except for the 2% voting Brexit. It's hard to see the Tories not gaining a huge majority with figures like that
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Thought that was a good PPB for Labour
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Hi Outrider,
You make some very good points. I'll have a think about whether I'm being unfair to the BBC.
One thing about the right-wing press setting the agenda (and getting promoted hourly on Today) - if the BBC employees were doing journalism, they could take the headlines and present some relevant facts about them. They don't. They just read them out, which some might interpret as endorsement. Nick Robinson can communicate a lot with his tone of voice and the occasional avuncular chuckle.
I agree. You'd think with a 24 hour news channel they'd take the opportunity to actually set out a context, build the picture, but they appear to be beholden to the rapid flick, grabby headline and an unfulfilled promise that more detail will be on the website when it rarely is.
O.
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Ooft
@YouGov MRP projection published by @thetimes Con MAJORITY of 68 Con 359 (+42) Lab 211 (-51) LD 13 (+1) Brexit 0 (-) Green 1 (-) SNP 43 (+8) PC 4 (-) Other 1 (-)
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Letter to FT
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YD3R8a7Qi6t9MwSVHiuQ_b7lMmw5GhRO/view
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That 45% is basically everybody who wants Brexit, except for the 2% voting Brexit. It's hard to see the Tories not gaining a huge majority with figures like that
There must be a fair number of leftish Brexiters who would never vote tory.
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There must be a fair number of leftish Brexiters who would never vote tory.
Not sure of that. Brexit appears to override any other concerns currently. A deeply depressing thought as it is going to enable a government that does not have the best wishes of the public at heart. How people do not see this I cannot personally fathom.
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There must be a fair number of leftish Brexiters who would never vote tory.
I think they would if it meant we left the EU as that is more important to them than which party is in power. :o
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Confirmation of the suspension of my Tory candidate. That's 2 down in Scotland so far. As I posted earlier link, there seem ti be lots this election in different parties being removed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/election-2019-50577918?__twitter_impression=true
Another day and another candidate suspended. Labour this time
https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/politics/labour-axe-falkirk-candidate-1-5053352/amp?__twitter_impression=true
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Bearing in mind that a no-deal Brexit at the end of 2020 remains a risk despite assurances from high-profile Tories that 'Boris' can do a deal in that 'didn't he get rid of the backstop when they said he couldn't', while conveniently forgetting he did so by doing what his predecessor said no UK PM could ever do as regards NI: so I'm astonished that there are sufficient numbers of voters who are perverse enough to risk a Tory government.
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His charm overrunneth
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-branded-children-single-20977406.amp?__twitter_impression=true
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His charm overrunneth
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-branded-children-single-20977406.amp?__twitter_impression=true
I have a great desire to suspend him by his dangly bits from the nearest church steeple! >:(
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Madness or the pretence of madness?
https://dominiccummings.com/
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My husband and I have just voted. Our ballot papers arrived with this mornings mail, we have filled them in and put them in the envelopes. They will be put in the post box later on.
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Madness or the pretence of madness?
https://dominiccummings.com/
Possibly elements of both, with added lies.
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My husband and I have just voted. Our ballot papers arrived with this mornings mail, we have filled them in and put them in the envelopes. They will be put in the post box later on.
Almost any likely outcome fills me with dread.
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Almost any likely outcome fills me with dread.
There are some much more dreadful than others like a Tory majority. :o
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Almost any likely outcome fills me with dread.
Speaking as somebody who wants to keep the UK in the EU and the UK in one piece, I see no result that would allow both goals to be met and I think the most likely outcome is that neither will be met.
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Speaking as somebody who wants to keep the UK in the EU and the UK in one piece, I see no result that would allow both goals to be met and I think the most likely outcome is that neither will be met.
Sadly I think you are correct. :(
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Speaking as somebody who wants to keep the UK in the EU and the UK in one piece, I see no result that would allow both goals to be met and I think the most likely outcome is that neither will be met.
I wouldn't mind if Irish reunification happened as a result but I can't see that happening peacefully so even that is problematic.
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For whatever reason when I hear Boris say:
"Get Brexit Done"my mind does a peculiar segue into "We've Only Just Begun" by The Carpenters.
Which is really fucking annoying because Boris has managed to ruin that pleasure too.
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And now apparently the SNP has suspended its candidate for Labour-held Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, Neale Hanvey, for alleged anti-Semitic posts made on Facebook
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So it looks like the lying racist thug that is the PM is going to refuse to be interviewed by Andrew Neil. Colour me in no way surprised that he's a coward
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And now apparently the SNP has suspended its candidate for Labour-held Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, Neale Hanvey, for alleged anti-Semitic posts made on Facebook
I have just seen that.
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Surprised none of the parties have come up with the election slogan "2020 Vision". Now that I have, I offer it free of charge to Labour or the Greens, but if the tories, the Lib Dems or Brexit dare to use it I'll sue the bastards for breach of copyright. You are my witnesses that I invented it.
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I wouldn't mind if Irish reunification happened as a result but I can't see that happening peacefully so even that is problematic.
Having Irish as well as British citizenship, I think Irish reunification would be a good thing, but I doubt it would happen, and it would be unlikely to be peaceful.
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Rearrange into a well know phrase:
Far tree the apple not the from does fall
https://metro.co.uk/video/stanley-johnson-calls-public-illiterate-2059280/
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Westminster voting intention: CON: 42% (-) LAB: 34% (+2) LDEM: 13% (-1) BREX: 4% (+1) GRN: 3% (+1) via
@PanelbaseMD
, 27 - 28 Nov Chgs. w/ 22 Nov
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Labour gradually creeping up? I promise to go back to church if they can nobble the fat lying Boris.
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Labour gradually creeping up? I promise to go back to church if they can nobble the fat lying Boris.
I think there is a trend - the squeeze on the Lib Dems might be similar to last election, possibly helped by Swinson's lack of performance. It's been suggested that if the Tory lead falls below 7 % then it might be a hung parliament. Part of me would find it funny if we are back with the same numbers.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50603115
Boris has asked Trump not to endorse him as his favourite candidate, when he infests the UK next week. No doubt a Trump endorsement could lose the Tories some votes.
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Labour gradually creeping up? I promise to go back to church if they can nobble the fat lying Boris.
The outlook doesn't look good. The key seems to be traditional Labour voters who voted for Leave. What Labour needs to get across is that the changes they wanted are on offer and brexit itself and BJ don't bring them any closer.
Then there's also the distrust of Corbyn as leader - they can't counteract that without better hitting public support from the now older New Labour figures - Yvette Cooper, Hillary Benn, Millibands - & those that left the shadow cabinet earlier. Ie. Demonstrating that he will have a full, competent, team to make sure the plans are implementable and implemented.
Probably all too late anyway, imo.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50603115
Boris has asked Trump not to endorse him as his favourite candidate, when he infests the UK next week. No doubt a Trump endorsement could lose the Tories some votes.
Trump said his ideal would be Boris and Nigel as joint PMs.
Rearrange into a well know phrase:
Far tree the apple not the from does fall
https://metro.co.uk/video/stanley-johnson-calls-public-illiterate-2059280/
Disappointed in Stanley. He may find it difficult to face facts about his beloved son but he shouldn't have made such a scathing comment about the general public. We ain't all ignorami.
https://newsthump.com/2018/04/05/i-dont-know-why-my-nose-is-growing-insists-boris-johnson-as-his-nose-visibly-grows/
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Trump said his ideal would be Boris and Nigel as joint PMs.
Disappointed in Stanley. He may find it difficult to face facts about his beloved son but he shouldn't have made such a scathing comment about the general public. We ain't all ignorami.
https://newsthump.com/2018/04/05/i-dont-know-why-my-nose-is-growing-insists-boris-johnson-as-his-nose-visibly-grows/
Boris obviously takes after his unpleasant old man! :o
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On the anniversary of Swift's birth, an appropriately Juvenalian piece from Marina Hyde
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/29/climate-boris-johnson-shame-prime-minister-reputation?__twitter_impression=true
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On the anniversary of Swift's birth, an appropriately Juvenalian piece from Marina Hyde
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/29/climate-boris-johnson-shame-prime-minister-reputation?__twitter_impression=true
I love it.
Boris Johnson’s big contribution to reducing plastic consumption is not wearing condoms.
... this election marks a change of behaviour for the prime minister, who has finally started withdrawing. Unfortunately, he’s pulling out of climate debates and BBC interviews, as opposed to single mothers.
We should also consider the promises Mr Johnson made about Mrs Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe (already a victim of his dislocated brain-mouth connection). How many calories has he burned in his efforts to keep these promises?
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Just by way of some light relief in these politically grim times, I was watching something on TV the other night when they were interviewing people in traditionally Labour strongholds who were now intending to vote Tory/Brexit. One such was asked what is Dad would have though of his son voting Tory, and he came out with the immortal: "If he were alive today, he'd be turning in his grave". Priceless!
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OMG , I saw that too , spat my tea out laughing .
Haha you couldn't make it up 😂😂😂
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Just by way of some light relief in these politically grim times, I was watching something on TV the other night when they were interviewing people in traditionally Labour strongholds who were now intending to vote Tory/Brexit. One such was asked what is Dad would have though of his son voting Tory, and he came out with the immortal: "If he were alive today, he'd be turning in his grave". Priceless!
Nice one. ;D
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Indeed
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-attenborough-boris-johnson-climate-change-debate-channel-4-ice-a9226776.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR29DwpxYvcZPtcYxMGouygp9-ox9iKrrn-g7csgCsLQTxO30tk_p0guwy0#Echobox=1575053499
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Westminster voting intention: CON: 39% (-2) LAB: 33% (+5) LDEM: 13% (-5) GRN: 5% (-) BREX: 4% (+1) via
@BMGResearch
, 27 - 29 Nov Chgs. w/ 21 Nov
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The gap is closing! It seems we're on course for a hung parliament.
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More of Johnson's mouthing off
https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-said-britain-poorest-chavs-losers-criminals-addicts-burglars-2019-11?fbclid=IwAR1Ok96iex7e9a8t1Zd_DuAQc0lXh73naSgRLM8c0XGcEyR2k87v0H_YyYY&r=US&IR=T
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More of Johnson's mouthing off
https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-said-britain-poorest-chavs-losers-criminals-addicts-burglars-2019-11?fbclid=IwAR1Ok96iex7e9a8t1Zd_DuAQc0lXh73naSgRLM8c0XGcEyR2k87v0H_YyYY&r=US&IR=T
Quoted from quoted article:
Earlier this week, it emerged that Johnson had labelled the children of single mothers "ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate," and accused their fathers of being too "feeble" to "take control of [their] woman."
Is this not a subject about which he has ... er ... personal knowledge?
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The Fib Dems
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/what-are-jo-swinsons-liberal-democrats-so-desperate-to-hide/
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The Fib Dems
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/what-are-jo-swinsons-liberal-democrats-so-desperate-to-hide/
I'm no great lover of the Lib Dems, but this looks like a non-story to me.
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I'm no great lover of the Lib Dems, but this looks like a non-story to me.
Given the use of lawyers, faked email, and that a staff member has been sacked - I think it merits attention.
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From the Sinn Fein manifesto launch, which given their policy of not taking up their seats, is an odd thing.
"At the latter, Sinn Fein leader, Mary Lou McDonald says this is "the election of a generation".
"Brexit has changed everything for all of us," she tells those gathered in Londonderry, and has "had the effect of uniting improbable allies in the face of real threats to people's livelihoods"."
If it has changed everything, I do wonder if there might be a slight chance were they to be able to affect the govt installed in WM whether they might reverse the policy?
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The ghastly Farage has been campaigning for the Brexit party in a town close to our village, I hope to goodness he doesn't campaign here too. I would feel the need to decontaminate our property if he infested it. >:(
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Peter Oborne attacks BBC for favouring Tories. Interesting from one of the most principled of right wing commentators.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/election-coverage-bbc-tories?fbclid=IwAR0OM0-sgVmNNWMyfpSoHYL3ghr7-N0c-p24h_71q6KK9fRmlgvTfKib8r8
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Peter Oborne attacks BBC for favouring Tories. Interesting from one of the most principled of right wing commentators.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/election-coverage-bbc-tories?fbclid=IwAR0OM0-sgVmNNWMyfpSoHYL3ghr7-N0c-p24h_71q6KK9fRmlgvTfKib8r8
Very interesting, but of course, you can't count it because it's published in the Guardian ;) that's despite the fact that as you say Oborne is a right wing commentator.
In the end though the article won't affect anything, the political classes have trained the apathetic masses to disregard nuance and jump to the dog whistle. Get Brexit done. Lock em up and throw away the key. Send em back to whence they came. Corbyn's an anti-semite/communist spy/terrorist sympathiser.
Oborne is pissing in a very ill-educated and misinformed wind.
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Top trolling from Burger King
https://inews.co.uk/news/burger-king-bus-brexit-vote-leave-whopper-asa-1332613
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;D
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So a right wing government seems on the cards, with the polls static. It will shred the NHS, plunge more people into poverty, deregulate everything, and help the rich. Why am I living in this nightmare?
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So a right wing government seems on the cards, with the polls static. It will shred the NHS, plunge more people into poverty, deregulate everything, and help the rich. Why am I living in this nightmare?
On the plus side, it will exacerbate the split and help break up the union.
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On the plus side, it will exacerbate the split and help break up the union.
OK, Jim, I will toast you in the water of life, while I sit in the workhouse.
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Johnson roasted by Andrew Neil.
https://youtu.be/ViNwF8qjTs4
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And the issue with page 48 in the Tory manifesto
https://www.indy100.com/article/page-48-tory-manifesto-general-election-judiciary-courts-constitution-9234351
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Even the Tories don't want you to vote Tory.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-general-election-campaign-john-major-conservatives-vote-a9235436.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2Np_Yk8Rx03qN5iLvPBDoUlEh6Mj0Fu3OF32LB1AgIJSB-QVwXOKotOdI#Echobox=1575630406
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Apparently disabled people don't understand money
https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/06/tory-candidate-says-disabled-people-paid-less-dont-understand-money-11280594/?fbclid=IwAR3WSvD4jJxMH85fB5nFoP5Ox54FraWu-K8h9SQzgr2wIrgCbFDGxH04C4M
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Apparently disabled people don't understand money
https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/06/tory-candidate-says-disabled-people-paid-less-dont-understand-money-11280594/?fbclid=IwAR3WSvD4jJxMH85fB5nFoP5Ox54FraWu-K8h9SQzgr2wIrgCbFDGxH04C4M
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Our DS son admittedly doesn't understand the value of money, but I believe he gets paid the princely sum of £3 per week for packing electrical goods two days a week a firm run by the social services. His benefits package is deemed sufficient.
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Corbyn v Johnson - the battle of the chores
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/05/scrub-antisemitism-out-of-labour-corbyn-wont-even-clean-his-own-house?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
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The Fib Dems
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/what-are-jo-swinsons-liberal-democrats-so-desperate-to-hide/
Appalling - and a source of regret for me, since I've voted Lib Dem most often in my adult life. It doesn't say much for their expensive lawyers either, who didn't bother to check the supposed 'replies' to OpenDemocracy (there were none), let alone noticing the laughable discrepancy of a 'reply' being given the day before O.D. had even asked the question!
The pitiful interview of Jo Swinson by Emma Barnett on Woman's Hour this morning did little to restore my confidence that the Lib Dems might be a strong force holding the balance of power in a hung parliament. Swinson sounded completely out of her depth and unprepared, whereas Barnett is a fearsome interviewer and something of a Rottweiler. Swinson's voice is all wrong too. A minor point, but her squeaky soprano makes her sound like a not-so-clever 6th form debater, and certainly not a strong leader.
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Corbyn v Johnson - the battle of the chores
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/05/scrub-antisemitism-out-of-labour-corbyn-wont-even-clean-his-own-house?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
They should issue them both with boxing gloves and let them fight it out that way, it would be more fun than listening to them slagging each other off.
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They should issue them both with boxing gloves and let them fight it out that way, it would be more fun than listening to them slagging each other off.
Er ... that would be an outright win for bully boy Boris and Jeremy would look really weedy in boxing kit and gloves.
I'm hoping for a sensible explanation of the proposed way forward - from one side anyway.
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Appalling - and a source of regret for me, since I've voted Lib Dem most often in my adult life. It doesn't say much for their expensive lawyers either, who didn't bother to check the supposed 'replies' to OpenDemocracy (there were none), let alone noticing the laughable discrepancy of a 'reply' being given the day before O.D. had even asked the question!
The pitiful interview of Jo Swinson by Emma Barnett on Woman's Hour this morning did little to restore my confidence that the Lib Dems might be a strong force holding the balance of power in a hung parliament. Swinson sounded completely out of her depth and unprepared, whereas Barnett is a fearsome interviewer and something of a Rottweiler. Swinson's voice is all wrong too. A minor point, but her squeaky soprano makes her sound like a not-so-clever 6th form debater, and certainly not a strong leader.
Swinson is my MP: I do hope she gets not just beat, but utterly tanked, and based on the unrepresentative sample of people I've spoken to she isn't popular locally due to her history of Tory-supporting. Of course it matters little, in that the outcome mainly depends on whether those previous Labour voters in parts of England who naively voted 'Leave' are, in sufficient numbers, perverse enough to now vote for the Tories next week - hope not.
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Apparently disabled people don't understand money
https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/06/tory-candidate-says-disabled-people-paid-less-dont-understand-money-11280594/?fbclid=IwAR3WSvD4jJxMH85fB5nFoP5Ox54FraWu-K8h9SQzgr2wIrgCbFDGxH04C4M
I'm not defending her disgraceful comments, but it appears that she was talking about learning-disabled, not pysically or sensorily disabled, people, and many of them do have difficulty with money. They should still, of course, be paid the same rate for a job as a non-disabled person, and it sounds as though she's saying that it's ok to take advantage of them, because they won't know.
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Frankie Boyle on the election
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/07/frankie-boyle-election-countdown-praying-prorogue-next-parliament?fbclid=IwAR2ds8AOefLiVJa4Qt89lBX_1rnztWp-CRoCWeJuB6OjJVyx6hVhDzXRoGU
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Election gets odder and odder
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/simon-hart-pembrokeshire-swastika-graffiti-nazi-sympathy-election-christina-rees-a9226291.html
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Why did the chicken cross the road?
To avoid the Andrew Neil interview
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Why did the chicken cross the road?
To avoid the Andrew Neil interview
Nicking that, for Facebook.
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Why did the chicken cross the road?
To avoid the Andrew Neil interview
;D ;D ;D
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Nicking that, for Facebook.
me too
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Brexit becomes Reform
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50704706#
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I despair
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/08/boris-johnson-delivers-20-minute-barrage-of-mansplaining-and-manspreading?__twitter_impression=true
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Brexit becomes Reform
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50704706#
Reform the voting system? Abolish the House of Lords? Bugger me - I agree with the nicotine-staiined man-frog!
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Meanwhile Johnson insists on unicorns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50711868
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Meanwhile Johnson insists on unicorns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50711868
Please don't upset the unicorns. I have it on good authority, i.e. my pet unicorn who sits on my wardrobe, that they have no wish to be linked to the No 10 idiot, and may consider suing you for your comment. ;D
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CON: 42% (-) LAB: 36% (+1) LDEM: 12% (-1) BREX: 3% (-) via @ICMResearch, 06 - 09 Dec
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How cats and dogs will vote. This is very biased to the Labour Party and the Guardian but at least one line made me laugh heartily
https://youtu.be/nFKwdxUv7Hc
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Dickhead and dickheader
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50726592
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Dickhead and dickheader
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50726592
In my opinion this says more about the "friend" than John Ashworth. But anyway, did we not already know that there are a lot of Labour MPs who don't like Jeremy Corbyn? Are there any Conservatives who don't like Boris Johnson?
Yesterday our sociopath PM showed his true colours again and Tory party "sources" threw an entirely mendacious dead cat to Laura Keunssberg which she tweeted to her 1 million + followers as the truth, as did Robert Peston. Matt Hancock, who was actually there, also tweeted a blatant lie. Luckily there's film of the non-incident exposing their lies and on the plus side, the recording of Johnson behaving like the entitled ignorant sociopath he is has circulated widely.
In a sane world I would have woken up this morning to the news that Laura Keunssberg had been sacked. Instead she tweeted an "apology" for the "confusion". There was no confusion, she passed on lies without checking their veracity. That is not journalism. The BBC news department is currently a disgrace (and I've taken into account Outrider's spirited defence, which I would have agreed with about 10 years ago).
The BBC and NHS were examples of how socialised organisations can deliver very good services to the benefit of everyone. The NHS has been chopped up and undermined gradually since Thatcher introduced an entirely unnecessary and benefit-free "internal market" and few seem to notice, let alone care that their tax money is being pocketed by billionaires instead of paying for sufficient doctors and nurses. (Blair and his light-blue government continued the trend, the wholesale use of PFI being the most outrageous example.) BBC news has been infiltrated by Tory activists (have a look at Nick Robinson's CV) who will be happy to see Auntie dead and in her grave. It's what Rupert wants.
Keunssberg said she had "two sources" for the lie she put out - she meant two Tories had told her lies she didn't check. She's been reprimanded for misrepresenting what Jeremy Corbyn said in an interview with her. Why is she still political editor of BBC News?
The BBC are reporting that nobody is really interested in the election, only a few organised Labour trouble-makers turn up to politicians' visits. Find the film of Corbyn at a rally in Bristol. Ask yourself why it wasn't on the BBC news last night.
If anyone would like to accuse me of being indoctrinated, please explain which of my points is incorrect and I'll explain, source it or retract. I think my views are based in reality but am always open to being shown I'm wrong.
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From the BBc's rolling thread - viewers in Scotland have their own programme - Fib Dems strike again
"We haven't heard much so far today from the Lib Dems, but they are out on the campaign trail and gearing up for a big last push before polling day.
Party candidate and Brexit spokesman Tom Brake, who has been at the launch of the Lib Dems' final campaign poster in central London, has been reiterating their main aim - to stop Brexit.
He says the Lib Dems are the only party in this election that “can take seats from the Conservatives”."
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In my opinion this says more about the "friend" than John Ashworth. But anyway, did we not already know that there are a lot of Labour MPs who don't like Jeremy Corbyn? Are there any Conservatives who don't like Boris Johnson?
Yesterday our sociopath PM showed his true colours again and Tory party "sources" threw an entirely mendacious dead cat to Laura Keunssberg which she tweeted to her 1 million + followers as the truth, as did Robert Peston. Matt Hancock, who was actually there, also tweeted a blatant lie. Luckily there's film of the non-incident exposing their lies and on the plus side, the recording of Johnson behaving like the entitled ignorant sociopath he is has circulated widely.
In a sane world I would have woken up this morning to the news that Laura Keunssberg had been sacked. Instead she tweeted an "apology" for the "confusion". There was no confusion, she passed on lies without checking their veracity. That is not journalism. The BBC news department is currently a disgrace (and I've taken into account Outrider's spirited defence, which I would have agreed with about 10 years ago).
The BBC and NHS were examples of how socialised organisations can deliver very good services to the benefit of everyone. The NHS has been chopped up and undermined gradually since Thatcher introduced an entirely unnecessary and benefit-free "internal market" and few seem to notice, let alone care that their tax money is being pocketed by billionaires instead of paying for sufficient doctors and nurses. (Blair and his light-blue government continued the trend, the wholesale use of PFI being the most outrageous example.) BBC news has been infiltrated by Tory activists (have a look at Nick Robinson's CV) who will be happy to see Auntie dead and in her grave. It's what Rupert wants.
Keunssberg said she had "two sources" for the lie she put out - she meant two Tories had told her lies she didn't check. She's been reprimanded for misrepresenting what Jeremy Corbyn said in an interview with her. Why is she still political editor of BBC News?
The BBC are reporting that nobody is really interested in the election, only a few organised Labour trouble-makers turn up to politicians' visits. Find the film of Corbyn at a rally in Bristol. Ask yourself why it wasn't on the BBC news last night.
If anyone would like to accuse me of being indoctrinated, please explain which of my points is incorrect and I'll explain, source it or retract. I think my views are based in reality but am always open to being shown I'm wrong.
That was the point of my comment - Greig Baker 'the friend' is the 'dickheader' for recording and leaking this. Keunssberg's tweet was a disgrace, and that she tweeted that the messenger shouldn't be attacked is nonsense. As you say there was no verification and the initial tweet reported the violent attack as a fact.
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That was the point of my comment - Greig Baker 'the friend' is the 'dickheader' for recording and leaking this. Keunssberg's tweet was a disgrace, and that she tweeted that the messenger shouldn't be attacked is nonsense. As you say there was no verification and the initial tweet reported the violent attack as a fact.
Sorry if I misunderstood. I'm so angry about what went on last night I just couldn't understand why nobody had already posted about it!
A friend showed me a video this morning which can be found by searching 'Jeremy Corbyn Mean Tweets'. It's charming and funny, which I am well aware is no substitute for leadership qualities, so don't take me to task on that point. Try to imagine Boris Johnson doing the equivalent.
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Sorry if I misunderstood. I'm so angry about what went on last night I just couldn't understand why nobody had already posted about it!
A friend showed me a video this morning which can be found by searching 'Jeremy Corbyn Mean Tweets'. It's charming and funny, which I am well aware is no substitute for leadership qualities, so don't take me to task on that point. Try to imagine Boris Johnson doing the equivalent.
See up thread the cats and dogs letters. I am biased against Johnson, I've met him
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I am biased against Johnson, but I haven't met him. Corbyn doesn't float my boat either. To be frank none of the party leaders are great shakes, imo.
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Sorry if I misunderstood. I'm so angry about what went on last night I just couldn't understand why nobody had already posted about it!
A friend showed me a video this morning which can be found by searching 'Jeremy Corbyn Mean Tweets'. It's charming and funny, which I am well aware is no substitute for leadership qualities, so don't take me to task on that point. Try to imagine Boris Johnson doing the equivalent.
This is rather good summary
https://bylinetimes.com/2019/12/10/trolls-sock-puppets-and-useful-idiots-an-anatomy-of-an-election-disinformation-campaign/
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I am biased against Johnson, but I haven't met him. Corbyn doesn't float my boat either. To be frank none of the party leaders are great shakes, imo.
Johnson is a dangerous racist lying sociopath. He is a self idolator.
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Johnson is a dangerous racist lying sociopath. He is a self idolator.
You missed out 'hypocrite', and 'coward'.
Happy to correct you.
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Yes, it's a PPB.
But, hey, this is quite well done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RjgDZE9mpM&fbclid=IwAR0MLOi9XBkDKen7ol0vMh8yvSzM3i3C6Am9VcEpAPamzrFqVINtkJY-SuA
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Aye
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/10/doctor-johnson-thousands-deaths-nhs-patient#click=https://t.co/y9mQSCqd7W
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Stuff that would have been rejected as too far for The Thick of It part 7369!
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/11/boris-johnson-hides-in-fridge-to-avoid-piers-morgan-interview?__twitter_impression=true
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I keep hearing this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8mduTEvnU0 when watching this election. I just wish more people did.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/50606225
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From elsewhere
'Sir Boris ran away.
Bravely ran away away.
When asked to go on GMB
His bouncer swore on live TV.
Brave Sir Boris turned about,
Gallantly chickened out.
"I'm Brave!" He screamed
"I'll get Brexit Done!"
Then hid in a fridge 'til the press had gone.
Bravest of the brave, Sir Boris!'
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Love it: how anyone could vote for a party led by that useless fucker beats me.
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The echos are so thick and fast it's hard to tell who's saying what ✊
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Rise and Shine..!!
Election Day...guys! Choose wisely!
All the best. :)
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Thanks sririam. Can't help feeling dread about the result which is depressing& hope I'm wrong.
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Thanks sririam. Can't help feeling dread about the result which is depressing& hope I'm wrong.
Yep. You and me both.
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Yep. You and me both.
This is the closest I came to spoiling my ballot paper. I voted for the least shite party.
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The one bright spot is the #dogsatpollingstations twitter feed
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I live in a constituency where the Conservative candidate has an unassailable majority. Under the FPTP system my vote is totally irrelevent. For the first time in my life I am considering not voting ... but I probably will ...
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I live in a constituency where the Conservative candidate has an unassailable majority. Under the FPTP system my vote is totally irrelevent. For the first time in my life I am considering not voting ... but I probably will ...
Well it is pouring with rain.........however, even though your vote doesn't strictly count, it still would be a vote in the total against the conservatives and however small the effect is psychologically, the more votes against them to my mind is a positive thing.
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Just got back from exercsing my democratic right, and rewarded myself afterwards with a fry-up in a nearby cafe. I hope the rain doesn't help the tories; it used to be said that bad weather was good for the tory vote, but that was when many working-class people didn't have their own transport other than bikes. Cars are practically ubiquitous nowadays, and postal votes are available for the asking, neither of which was the case back in the 60s and earlier, so it's probably much less true nowadays.
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Whilst delivering papers today I saw a very nice door, freshly painted, the grandest blue I've seen. A sign maybe?
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Just got back from exercsing my democratic right, and rewarded myself afterwards with a fry-up in a nearby cafe. I hope the rain doesn't help the tories; it used to be said that bad weather was good for the tory vote, but that was when many working-class people didn't have their own transport other than bikes. Cars are practically ubiquitous nowadays, and postal votes are available for the asking, neither of which was the case back in the 60s and earlier, so it's probably much less true nowadays.
I use a postal vote currently after a near miss at the Euro referendum where I made it to the polling booth at 21:58. I miss the experience of going to the polling station, getting marked off and then marking the paper and popping it in the ballot box.
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Whilst delivering papers today I saw a very nice door, freshly painted, the grandest blue I've seen. A sign maybe?
Well I put up my Christmas decorations yesterday. They had a predominantly red theme. A sign maybe?
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Well I put up my Christmas decorations yesterday. They had a predominantly red theme. A sign maybe?
Hope so.
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Is the General Election really on today...?!! No one seems to be talking about it. Not CNN, not Indian channels...no one. At least not noticeably. Even BBC has only a small news item. :o
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Whilst delivering papers today I saw a very nice door, freshly painted, the grandest blue I've seen. A sign maybe?
Fantastic!
Since the Saltire is blue and white, SNP's quids in, then.
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Is the General Election really on today...?!! No one seems to be talking about it. Not CNN, not Indian channels...no one. At least not noticeably. Even BBC has only a small news item. :o
Consider yourself lucky. It's bordering on obsession here for some and catalepsy for others.
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Is the General Election really on today...?!! No one seems to be talking about it. Not CNN, not Indian channels...no one. At least not noticeably. Even BBC has only a small news item. :o
Generally on polling day as campaigning is effectively suspended, there is little to cover other than the weather and turnout. The news outlets then tend to stick to reporting tgat the polls are open.
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Well I put up my Christmas decorations yesterday. They had a predominantly red theme. A sign maybe?
Christmas decorations go up on Christmas Eve, and come down on 12th night, should be entirely inside the house, and should not include any representsations of Father Christmas/Santa Claus, reindeer, or snowmen. A crib scene is optional but encouraged. That's the law.
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Is the General Election really on today...?!! No one seems to be talking about it. Not CNN, not Indian channels...no one. At least not noticeably. Even BBC has only a small news item. :o
Not sure why there isn't foreign news coverage but the BBC and other broadcasters in the UK are severely restricted in what they are allowed to report on polling day.
Anyway, just cast my vote (for what little it's worth in my safe Labour constituency) but I can't say I'm optimistic about the outcome.
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Christmas decorations go up on Christmas Eve, and come down on 12th night, should be entirely inside the house, and should not include any representsations of Father Christmas/Santa Claus, reindeer, or snowmen. A crib scene is optional but encouraged. That's the law.
Doesn't a crib scene come under 'graven image'?
I thought that damn camel looked superior.
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Christmas decorations go up on Christmas Eve, and come down on 12th night, should be entirely inside the house, and should not include any representsations of Father Christmas/Santa Claus, reindeer, or snowmen. A crib scene is optional but encouraged. That's the law.
The arrival of the Christmas Decoration police. I thought the totalitarian state started after the election.
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Marina Hyde on Fridge hiding
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/11/fridge-hiding-the-final-frontier-in-election-wtf-ery?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
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What on earth have Christmas decorations got to do with this election? ::)
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What on earth have Christmas decorations got to do with this election? ::)
They remind you of some of the candidates; artificial, fragile and full of air.
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What on earth have Christmas decorations got to do with this election? ::)
Moderator Nothing, it's just a derail from Trentvoyager's reply to Spud.
Can we meander away from detailed decoration discussion? Or you can take it to the bearpit that is the Christmas thread.
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Westminster voting intention: CON: 44% (-) LAB: 33% (+1) LDEM: 12% (-1) GRN: 3% (-) BREX: 2% (-) via
@IpsosMORI
, 09 - 11 Dec Chgs. w/ 04 Dec
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Moderator Nothing, it's just a derail from Trentvoyager's reply to Spud.
Can we meander away from detailed decoration discussion? Or you can take it to the bearpit that is the Christmas thread.
Scrooge. :P
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I was wondering how people with vision problems manage to vote, maybe Anchorman or Susan Doris could answer that question?
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Back on topic:
I've just seen a reference, in a rather pompous post on Facebook, to "tactile voting". Is that braille ballot papers for the blind?
The Metro website is telling of huge queues building up outside polling stations in London. When I voted about two hours ago, I walked strasight in, and there were no other voters there.
Edited to add:
Strange coincidence that LR posted about blind people voting while I was typing that. My late wife used me as a proxy when we were married.
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I was wondering how people with vision problems manage to vote, maybe Anchorman or Susan Doris could answer that question?
Covered along with many other things here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50381748
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Ah Motherwell!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50755464
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Ah Motherwell!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50755464
and it was reported that damage to the value of around £3.75 had been caused 👽
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Agree with this.
https://davidallengreen.com/2019/12/three-things-not-happening-on-this-election-day/?fbclid=IwAR0KTLEyKkpgzj0eYznIr3C539y1LG0Eh9VEzD6_BvwkiNaFO7t4xG4mXI8
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Also ironic that Boris has basically republished May's deal, with the stuff on Ireland which the EU wanted. No wonder it's oven ready.
And a small majority will make him reliant on ERG again.
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Not sure why there isn't foreign news coverage but the BBC and other broadcasters in the UK are severely restricted in what they are allowed to report on polling day.
Anyway, just cast my vote (for what little it's worth in my safe Labour constituency) but I can't say I'm optimistic about the outcome.
Ok...
But it is surprising that there is no TV reporter screaming away about the elections and its possibilities. TV debates, analysis, predictions, exit polls, expert views....etc.etc.. All these are part of election news in India (and in US also as we can see).
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I was wondering how people with vision problems manage to vote, maybe Anchorman or Susan Doris could answer that question?
Blank signature guides are available for writing the 'X' on the ballot paper - on request at the polling station.
Failing that, a proxy or a postal vote are the alternatives.
I use the latter.
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Back on topic: I've just seen a reference, in a rather pompous post on Facebook, to "tactile voting". Is that braille ballot papers for the blind? The Metro website is telling of huge queues building up outside polling stations in London. When I voted about two hours ago, I walked strasight in, and there were no other voters there. Edited to add: Strange coincidence that LR posted about blind people voting while I was typing that. My late wife used me as a proxy when we were married.
It might be the reference to tactile signature guides which can be provided. All ballot papers are the same - they have to be. The thin nature of the ballot paper would make brailling it difficult.
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Ok...
But it is surprising that there is no TV reporter screaming away about the elections and its possibilities. TV debates, analysis, predictions, exit polls, expert views....etc.etc.. All these are part of election news in India (and in US also as we can see).
Here's the BBC explanation but it applies to all broadcasters...
How the BBC reports polling day (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48124106)
"The BBC, like other broadcasters, isn't allowed to report details of campaigning or election issues while the polls are open.
...
On polling day specifically, the BBC doesn't report on any of the election campaigns from 00:30 GMT until polls close at 22:00 GMT on TV, radio or bbc.co.uk or on social media and other channels."
We'll get exit polls and all the rest immediately after the polling stations close at 22:00. Exit polls are usually very accurate but coverage will go through the night (some people even watch it all) and the result should be clear by morning.
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Also ironic that Boris has basically republished May's deal, with the stuff on Ireland which the EU wanted. No wonder it's oven ready.
And a small majority will make him reliant on ERG again.
This is pretty good on that point: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/12/tory-rebel-s-last-stand
Johnson, said Clarke, was now “desperate for a deal. He’d go for anything. That’s why in the end there was no proper negotiating. It was all settled by a one-to-one meeting between him and Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar [held in Cheshire 10 October]. An hour and a half. On their own. They shook hands and did the deal.”
“Now Varadkar was able to do that,” Clarke continued, “confident the [EU] 28 would be all right, because what he shook hands on was what the EU had already agreed to offer Theresa May 12 or 18 months before. It was quite obvious from what Johnson said afterwards that he hadn’t understood what he was agreeing to. He had not recognised it as the original EU proposal. He still refuses to accept that he signed up to a customs union down the Irish Sea.”
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It might be the reference to tactile signature guides which can be provided. All ballot papers are the same - they have to be. The thin nature of the ballot paper would make brailling it difficult.
In the contrxt of the post, she obviously meant "tactical voting".
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Ok...
But it is surprising that there is no TV reporter screaming away about the elections and its possibilities. TV debates, analysis, predictions, exit polls, expert views....etc.etc.. All these are part of election news in India (and in US also as we can see).
We'll have tons of those after the polls close. You aren't allowed to publish an exit poll before then. As Stranger and I have pointed out on election day itself while the polls are opened there is very little leeway for any reporting. So if for example you look at the updating page on the BBC website, you will see pictures of the leaders voting, and people at the poling station with dogs, cats, etc. Also there can be reports of problems at polling station if they are closed for whatever reason.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-2019-50755004
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Blank signature guides are available for writing the 'X' on the ballot paper - on request at the polling station.
Failing that, a proxy or a postal vote are the alternatives.
I use the latter.
My husband and I have postal votes, which suit us better too. I read somewhere Farage said he would do away with them if he was in a position to do so, goodness knows why?
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My husband and I have postal votes, which suit us better too. I read somewhere Farage said he would do away with them if he was in a position to do so, goodness knows why?
Postal votes are (generally) more vulnerable to election fraud.
Also reported:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bbc-laura-kuenssberg-postal-votes-electoral-commission-a9242976.html
The BBC’s political editor may have broken electoral law by discussing supposed results of postal votes live on air, the Electoral Commission has indicated.
Speaking to the BBC's Politics Live, Laura Kuenssberg claimed to have received tip-offs from those with knowledge of early votes cast in the general election, during a discussion about poor weather impacting voter turnout.
She went on to describe what sources had told her about the results of postal ballots already counted.
And... of-course .. no postal votes are supposed to be counted until after 10pm tonight.
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I have not been following this thread, nor have I read the e-mails I have been sent , and when I got in from coffee after tap, I thought,'I'm not going out again today in this weather.' But then of course I remembered I had to vote. Okay, this is a safe seat and I could have not bothered, but I was determined to do so, as it is my democratic right to do so. Taxi there, driver guided me in, I voted, then was brought home again. £5.30 (but I always add a bit extra) so that was the cost of my vote! I hope the democracy of UK appreciates this!!
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I wonder how many people realise that Corbyn's parents where obviously quite well off, they bought a stately home when he was seven, and he attended an independent prep school?
Corbyn was born in Chippenham, Wiltshire, and lived until the age of seven in the nearby village of Kington St Michael. He is the youngest of the four sons of Naomi Loveday (née Josling; 1915–1987), a maths teacher, and David Benjamin Corbyn (1915–1986), an electrical engineer and expert in power rectifiers. His brother Piers Corbyn is a physicist, meteorologist and weather forecaster. His parents were Labour Party members and peace campaigners who met in the 1930s at a committee meeting in support of the Spanish Republic at Conway Hall during the Spanish Civil War.
When Corbyn was seven, the family moved to Pave Lane in Shropshire, where his father bought Yew Tree Manor, a 17th-century country house which was once part of the Duke of Sutherland's Lilleshall estate. Corbyn attended Castle House School, an independent preparatory school near Newport, Shropshire, before, at age 11, becoming a day student at the Adams' Grammar School in the town.
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I wonder how many people realise that Corbyn's parents where obviously quite well off, they bought a stately home when he was seven, and he attended an independent prep school?
Corbyn was born in Chippenham, Wiltshire, and lived until the age of seven in the nearby village of Kington St Michael. He is the youngest of the four sons of Naomi Loveday (née Josling; 1915–1987), a maths teacher, and David Benjamin Corbyn (1915–1986), an electrical engineer and expert in power rectifiers. His brother Piers Corbyn is a physicist, meteorologist and weather forecaster. His parents were Labour Party members and peace campaigners who met in the 1930s at a committee meeting in support of the Spanish Republic at Conway Hall during the Spanish Civil War.
When Corbyn was seven, the family moved to Pave Lane in Shropshire, where his father bought Yew Tree Manor, a 17th-century country house which was once part of the Duke of Sutherland's Lilleshall estate. Corbyn attended Castle House School, an independent preparatory school near Newport, Shropshire, before, at age 11, becoming a day student at the Adams' Grammar School in the town.
And?
You've heard of Lord Stansgate - AKA Anthony Wedgewood-Benn, haven't you?
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And?
You've heard of Lord Stansgate - AKA Anthony Wedgewood-Benn, haven't you?
Of course, however Corbyn is a little rougher around the edges than Benn was.
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Ok numbers then.
Cons 342
Lab 227
SNP 40
LDs 19
No independent win
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Tomorrows lottery numbers?
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L'ilRoses:- I wonder how many people realise that Corbyn's parents where obviously quite well off, they bought a stately home when he was seven, and he attended an independent prep school?
Yes, I knew his background. He's old school; many of the 'elder statesmen', some deceased, & other more recent, socialist politicians were from reasonably well heeled backgrounds and educated. They were highly intellectual and committed to social justice. At the same time they could relate to traditional working class socialists, trade unionists and the like.
There's nothing wrong with a person from a fairly privileged background being a socialist, it just means they think for themselves and don't accept the status quo.
Corbyn is a one off in many ways though, i don't think we can pigeon hole him. I'm not going to attempt psychoanalysis on Jeremy C on here :-)(all theoretical), but have done so in private, in discussion with friends and relatives. We've tried to work him out, he is a complex character and one who will carry on being himself regardless of what happens in terms of his political career.
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Feck!
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Feck!
Fuck
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FFS. Don't get ill. Don't get poor. Don't get old.
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FUCKING FUCKETY FUCK-FUCK! Bastard tories predicted to get an 86 majority! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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IF the numbers are correct Corbyn and Swinson go, Swinson possibly by losing her seat. We have no opposition except a guerilla war in Scotland. The Remain vote would appear to have split uselessly. Still be good for the sales of walk in fridges.
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If the poll is any way accurate regarding the SNP then it is hard to see how anyone can pretend that the UK is 'united': it isn't.
Brexit - the gift that keeps fucking things up.
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I wonder how many people realise that Corbyn's parents where obviously quite well off, they bought a stately home when he was seven, and he attended an independent prep school?
Corbyn was born in Chippenham, Wiltshire, and lived until the age of seven in the nearby village of Kington St Michael. He is the youngest of the four sons of Naomi Loveday (née Josling; 1915–1987), a maths teacher, and David Benjamin Corbyn (1915–1986), an electrical engineer and expert in power rectifiers. His brother Piers Corbyn is a physicist, meteorologist and weather forecaster. His parents were Labour Party members and peace campaigners who met in the 1930s at a committee meeting in support of the Spanish Republic at Conway Hall during the Spanish Civil War.
When Corbyn was seven, the family moved to Pave Lane in Shropshire, where his father bought Yew Tree Manor, a 17th-century country house which was once part of the Duke of Sutherland's Lilleshall estate. Corbyn attended Castle House School, an independent preparatory school near Newport, Shropshire, before, at age 11, becoming a day student at the Adams' Grammar School in the town.
And Orwell went to Eton. So what? No-one chooses their parents or their school.
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Early start tomorrow - awful numbers all round. Night night.
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Is there a fucking echo in here AGAIN ?
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FUCKING FUCKETY FUCK-FUCK! Bastard tories predicted to get an 86 majority! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I knew there was a reason for my sense of gloom.
What an arsehole aye?
I'm not going to stay up watching results come in, if I sleep well I'll be better equipped to deal with whatever bad tomorrow brings.
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If the poll is any way accurate regarding the SNP then it is hard to see how anyone can pretend that the UK is 'united': it isn't.
Brexit - the gift that keeps fucking things up.
It looks too good to be true...Even Swinson's seat looks shaky.
I kind of hoped we'd get 40 or 43 - but 55?
Yet again, it looks as if we will be governed by a party we rejected.
Same old, same old.
If Johnon rejects our demand for Indyref 2, I fear civil unreast by the hotheads.
I hope I'm wrong.
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It looks too good to be true...Even Swinson's seat looks shaky.
I kind of hoped we'd get 40 or 43 - but 55?
Yet again, it looks as if we will be governed by a party we rejected.
Same old, same old.
If Johnon rejects our demand for Indyref 2, I fear civil unreast by the hotheads.
I hope I'm wrong.
Good? It looks fucking disastrous. It gives a majority to a chicken in a fridge and based on the last couple of Tory govtd that means people dying on the streets. It's a poisoned and pointless chalice for the SNP in that it simply works as a distraction with no power.
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I was a staunch Labour supporter until the party voted to elect Red Ed as their leader - since then it has gone from bad to worse with the loony left taking over. Very sad.
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I was a staunch Labour supporter until the party voted to elect Red Ed as their leader - since then it has gone from bad to worse with the loony left taking over. Very sad.
Milliband was pale pink. What policy did he put forward that was 'Red'?
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So with the Blyth Valley result the Corbynite Manoeuvre is over. Runners and riders for next Labour leader? Obviously dependent on keeping seat.
Not easy as party members still the people that voted Corbyn in but you can't surely just move to McDonnell?
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Oooh - impressed with working a star trek reference into the election thread. Not impressed by anything else this evening.
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We are where no man has ever gone before
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And unfortunately we are now in a five year mission to seek out new lies, new fridges
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I'd have preferred to see Scotland stay in the union, it no longer looks like it will be staying, shame.
ippy
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I'd have preferred to see Scotland stay in the union, it no longer looks like it will be staying, shame.
ippy
Well if you lot will vote for a lying racist cowardly dangerous incompetent liar...
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Well if you lot will vote for a lying racist cowardly dangerous incompetent liar...
GIRUY
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GIRUY
STIPQ
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Sorry to rub it in folks...but you are in a serious minority it seems. :(
Better start believing in a God...I say! ;)
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GIRUY
Bet the lying cowardly racist dangerous Etonian likes you tickling his arsehole with your tongue
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Sorry to rub it in folks...but you are in a serious minority it seems. :(
Better start believing in a God...I say! ;)
Viewers in Scotland have their own programme
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Viewers in Scotland have their own programme
You mean starting the fight for independence??!!
That's very sad. You must have heard the story about the benefits of staying together.....
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You mean starting the fight for independence??!!
That's very sad. You must have heard the story about the benefits of staying together.....
No, I mean your post just showed ignorance about some of the posters on here. As so often you slipped into a lazy generalisation.
As to stories, surely you've heard the one about standing on your own 2 feet? (Which is a vacuous point other than to show that your 'story?' was vacuity in words)
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To adapt Monty Python, Swinson's loss was like a stream of bat's piss. A golden light in the dark.
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It would seem that those who voted leave in the referendum realised that the only way their wishes would be achieved was to vote Conservative.
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It would seem that those who voted leave in the referendum realised that the only way their wishes would be achieved was to vote Conservative.
While those who voted Remain got confused.
The problem is despite the branding on Sky this was so much more than a Brexit election.
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Viewers in Scotland have their own programme
Take the High Road?
Gutted but not surprised. Just got up and put news on.
And unfortunately we are now in a five year mission to seek out new lies, new fridges
In less than five years Con. voters will realise what a mistake they've made. Ooh 'con voters' is spot on.
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And of course viewers in NI have their own programme too. Some very interesting results.
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As somebody pointed out on the radio, the one positive is that it might be better than a very slim Tory majority, because the Brexit ultras will have less influence and Boris the Liar can take a more pragmatic approach. He has no morals, doesn't care about breaking promises and lying through his teeth, so who knows what he will end up doing, but he won't have to please the ERG who might push for no deal ("clean break") at the end of next year.
Doesn't stop it being a total fucking disaster for the UK, of course. As BHS said earlier, better not get ill, poor, or old. Perhaps in five years, when the NHS is in even worse shape, Brexit has caused job losses and loss of workers' rights, there are even more homeless and food banks, the country will come to its senses. Then again, perhaps not.
Anyway The Expanse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expanse_(TV_series)) season 4 has arrived on Amazon today, so that's good news.....
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Delighted my one vote helped get rid of Swinson, but angry that the uselessness of Labour in England and that so many of their ex-voters were perverse enough to vote for the despicable Tories to the extent that Scotland is dragged out of the EU. In spite of the obvious fact that the Scottish electorate have made their opposition to Brexit and the Tories very clear no doubt this will be ignored in the 'isn't Boris amazing' hysteria - and in the lie that the UK is 'united'.
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Oh dear. How sad. Never mind. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/jo-swinson-lib-dems-on-course-for-grim-night) ;D ;D ;D
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Do the Labour voters here really, really believe that if that Party had achieved a majority and Corbyn had become PM the country would have been significantly better governed, prosperous, confident, with public - no longer privatised - services running more efficiently with better pay structures, massive government loans gradually being paid back, that there would be well-funded welfare systems country-wide, and that there would be flourishing trade agreements with Europe?
Would they have made more trade agreements with the USA and would that help, bearing in mind the transport costs and environmental pollution an associated global warming dangers?
I am just so glad it is all over for the moment and I no longer have to think about the election.
Irrelevant P.S.: That fixed/arranged film and outrage about the child having to sleep on the floor in an A&E, along with, apparently, someone dressed up as a nurse, was a disgrace. One advantage of social media is that it was quickly debunked.
Yes of course there were lies all round but I just mention that one.
I'm going to the gym this morning to help keep me fit enough to still be alive at the next General Election.
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Oh dear. How sad. Never mind. (https://server8.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/sruj/shhzdcy/s8iwolzo/p2/servlet/redirect.srv/sruj/swktpeojwvzm/srst/p2/politics/2019/dec/13/jo-swinson-lib-dems-on-course-for-grim-night) ;D ;D ;D
Not sad (even ironically) Steve: since many of us locals are delighted to be rid of her.
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Irrelevant P.S.: That fixed/arranged film and outrage about the child having to sleep on the floor in an A&E, along with, apparently, someone dressed up as a nurse, was a disgrace. One advantage of social media is that it was quickly debunked.
Yes of course there were lies all round but I just mention that one.
If you mean this one, then you got it wrong.
https://bylinetimes.com/2019/12/10/trolls-sock-puppets-and-useful-idiots-an-anatomy-of-an-election-disinformation-campaign/
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The Guardian live blog precis of Johnson's thoughts has him opine that they 'must recognise that they are now a one-nation party, representing everyone from Kensington to Clwyd South, from Surrey Heath to Sedgefield.'
So I think we Scots know where we stand now: we aren't part of his 'one nation', though to be fair many of us don't want to be part of it anyway.
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Not sad (even ironically) Steve: since many of us locals are delighted to be rid of her.
So am I.
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Do the Labour voters here really, really believe that if that Party had achieved a majority and Corbyn had become PM the country would have been significantly better governed, prosperous, confident, with public - no longer privatised - services running more efficiently with better pay structures, massive government loans gradually being paid back, that there would be well-funded welfare systems country-wide, and that there would be flourishing trade agreements with Europe?
Yes, I really, really do.
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Irrelevant P.S.: That fixed/arranged film and outrage about the child having to sleep on the floor in an A&E, along with, apparently, someone dressed up as a nurse, was a disgrace. One advantage of social media is that it was quickly debunked.
Looks like you've swallowed a lie: There is no evidence to suggest the photo of a boy sleeping on a hospital floor was staged (https://fullfact.org/online/LGI-photo-boy-facebook/).
You really shouldn't rely on social media for this sort of thing - unless it's a reputable news source and fact checked.
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What an unmitigated disaster this election has been. :(
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What an unmitigated disaster this election has been. :(
One or two bright spots in the general carnage: Swinson getting the heave-ho, and the SNP's success in Scotland.
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One or two bright spots in the general carnage: Swinson getting the heave-ho, and the SNP's success in Scotland.
Indeed. I personally liked this one:
https://tinyurl.com/u2evuwb
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Irrelevant P.S.: That fixed/arranged film and outrage about the child having to sleep on the floor in an A&E, along with, apparently, someone dressed up as a nurse, was a disgrace. One advantage of social media is that it was quickly debunked.
Yes of course there were lies all round but I just mention that one.
You've got that wrong the subsequent story circulated by your party was the fake news. The hospital in question has confirmed this happened and offered a full apology.
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I was a staunch Labour supporter until the party voted to elect Red Ed as their leader - since then it has gone from bad to worse with the loony left taking over. Very sad.
Look on the bright side - we wiped the 'looney left' out here...the only token Labour MP left in Scotland is a Blairite.
Twenty years ago, if a banana stood for Labour here, he was a shoe-in. Now there's only one banana left, and the monkey's coming.
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I'd have preferred to see Scotland stay in the union, it no longer looks like it will be staying, shame.
ippy
Never mind...with the results the way they are, you might have to buy a box of Kleenex for Northern Ireland as well.
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You mean starting the fight for independence??!!
That's very sad. You must have heard the story about the benefits of staying together.....
No; what benefits?
That's a nre one on me.
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You've got that wrong the subsequent story circulated by your party was the fake news. The hospital in question has confirmed this happened and offered a full apology.
ans of course that doesn't cover the lie about one of Hancock's people being punched.
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I think Corbyn should do the decent thing and resign straight away. Our Labour MP, Mark Tami, who regained his seat, would make a good leader of that party, he is a good MP having done right by his constituency.
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Not sad (even ironically) Steve: since many of us locals are delighted to be rid of her.
I enjoyed that for personal reasons.
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Bet the lying cowardly racist dangerous Etonian likes you tickling his arsehole with your tongue
hahaha,
Says the leader of the R&E brown nosing echo chamber .
TBH what amuses me is the way you all pass round the Kool-aid and then spit your dummies out in unison
Happy days 😂
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hahaha,
Says the leader of the R&E brown nosing echo chamber .
TBH what amuses me is the way you all pass round the Kool-aid and then spit your dummies out in unison
Happy days 😂
It's always good to have a court jester as well.
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How depressing. And how depressing that Susan Doris doesn't realise who's lying to her.
Small comfort from the prospect of a united Ireland and the Tories and fans of Brexit having to own the consequences when there's nobody else left to blame. Though I expect there'll be someone to scapegoat if they look hard enough.
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It's always good to have a court jester as well.
Especially one who uses American idioms. Had to look up Kool Aid. Apparently refers to the cult of Jonestown. Seems accurate to me when applied to Johnson.
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How depressing. And how depressing that Susan Doris doesn't realise who's lying to her.
To cut SusanDoris a little slack, she does have to rely on a screen reader to navigate the internet. Goodness knows it's difficult enough to separate the lies from the truth on here without having another interface to deal with.
(I once, as part of my work, tried to use one of these screen reader things - it is a completely different, and to me, an exceptionally frustrating process!)
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To cut SusanDoris a little slack, she does have to rely on a screen reader to navigate the internet. Goodness knows it's difficult enough to separate the lies from the truth on here without having another interface to deal with.
(I once, as part of my work, tried to use one of these screen reader things - it is a completely different, and to me, an exceptionally frustrating process!)
And there is so much fake news, that when it is debunked it doesn't have the same impact and is easy to miss.
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To cut SusanDoris a little slack, she does have to rely on a screen reader to navigate the internet. Goodness knows it's difficult enough to separate the lies from the truth on here without having another interface to deal with.
(I once, as part of my work, tried to use one of these screen reader things - it is a completely different, and to me, an exceptionally frustrating process!)
Haud the bus!
If you build up a reasonable portfolio of sites on your 'Favourites' list, surfing isn't hard with a screen reader.
I've even been known to haunt the Scottish Tories' site - though I need to shower afterwards.
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Especially one who uses American idioms. Had to look up Kool Aid. Apparently refers to the cult of Jonestown. Seems accurate to me when applied to Johnson.
yeah , sorry about that Trent . Don't know what came over me .
(Could have been that BJ 😱)
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It's always good to have a court jester as well.
Mr Nearly,
You're welcome , the pleasure is all mine 😆
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You should read some of the sanctimonious flapdoodle on the Premier Christian Radio Facebook page. Absolutely emetic.
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To cut SusanDoris a little slack, she does have to rely on a screen reader to navigate the internet. Goodness knows it's difficult enough to separate the lies from the truth on here without having another interface to deal with.
(I once, as part of my work, tried to use one of these screen reader things - it is a completely different, and to me, an exceptionally frustrating process!)
I wasn't making a criticism of SusanDoris, I'm sorry it came over that way. What I find depressing is that the Conservatives' blatant and pretty much continual dishonesty has been so effective.
My bus and train were almost completely silent this morning, apart from a few squeaks from children and coughing. I live in a city damaged and disparaged by the Tories over decades. The EU helped us out of the hole the Tories dug for us. I don't think there's much hope for a bright future here.
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I wasn't making a criticism of SusanDoris, I'm sorry it came over that way. What I find depressing is that the Conservatives' blatant and pretty much continual dishonesty has been so effective.
My bus and train were almost completely silent this morning, apart from a few squeaks from children and coughing. I live in a city damaged and disparaged by the Tories over decades. The EU helped us out of the hole the Tories dug for us. I don't think there's much hope for a bright future here.
christine , you have my sympathy 😢
Imagine ! living in a city 😱
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You should read some of the sanctimonious flapdoodle on the Premier Christian Radio Facebook page. Absolutely emetic.
premier radio ?
That's the station that begs the gullible religios people for money to pay the presenters on the pretext of giving bibles to the hethans isn't it?
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And of course viewers in NI have their own programme too. Some very interesting results.
First time there is a majority for nationalist parties - Hmmmm
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Mr Nearly,
You're welcome , the pleasure is all mine 😆
That's definitely true
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First time there is a majority for nationalist parties - Hmmmm
Yep.
I think the Beeb seems to have skirted rount that.
I think it's very significant - and, in my pinion, positive.
Perhaps it might force the DUP to look to Stormont again.
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Yep.
I think the Beeb seems to have skirted rount that.
I think it's very significant - and, in my pinion, positive.
Perhaps it might force the DUP to look to Stormont again.
Talks starting on Monday - let's hope they go well - though Johnson's Brexit will be a strain I think
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Does anyone else think Len McCluskey has an awful lot to answer for?
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I see Dennis Skinner the Labour MP for Bolsover in Derbyshire is out after nearly 50yrs as an MP. He lives in Clay Cross, a village not far from the place in which we lived when we first married in 1969. My husband was a junior teacher at the then grammar school in Chesterfield.
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I see Dennis Skinner the Labour MP for Bolsover in Derbyshire is out after nearly 50yrs as an MP. He lives in Clay Cross, a village not far from the place in which we lived when we first married in 1969. My husband was a junior teacher at the then grammar school in Chesterfield.
A sad end. So we now have Peter Bottomley as Father of the House.
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Scary and good
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/12/boris-johnson-britain-uk-election/603466/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
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The New Yorker's view.
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/british-lose-right-to-claim-that-americans-are-dumber?fbclid=IwAR0MmOzSbx2FeSe7-4OPIudOVhQ6E3iMLIG3Tp00_znUqLZMzukN5Yjd_tw
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Does anyone know why it takes that last constituency to count its votes?
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How depressing. And how depressing that Susan Doris doesn't realise who's lying to her.
That is so wrong!! And rather patronisingly wrong too. Do you think I'm some dumb old dear who can't think for herself?!!. Did you not notice the opening 'irrelevant P.S.? *sigh*
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That is so wrong!! And rather patronisingly wrong too. Do you think I'm some dumb old dear who can't think for herself?!!. Did you not notice the opening 'irrelevant P.S.? *sigh*
Christine's comment is unpleasant and untrue. >:(
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Scary and good
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/12/boris-johnson-britain-uk-election/603466/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
Yeah, Tony Blair making you tea in his pajamas is very scary indeed.
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Possibly this
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/st-ives-constituency-could-last-3638476
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Yeah, Tony Blair making you tea in his pajamas is very scary indeed.
Especially given pajamas are not the best thing to drink tea from
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Possibly this
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/st-ives-constituency-could-last-3638476
Cheers!
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Just heard absolute fuckwit Labour MP Richard Burgon on the radio explaining why Labour lost by blaming everyone and everything he could think of except for Corbyn and the people around him. Absolutely clueless. This stuff is making me angry now - just at the time when we so desperately need well-funded healthcare, education, social welfare etc as the tories are about to take an even bigger axe to all of it this joker just doubles down to ensure it's even less likely to happen come another election. It's pure People's Front of Judea stuff while the scumbags move in unimpeded and dismantle everything good they can lay their self-serving little hands on.
Corbyn: the gift that keeps on giving - to the tories.
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That is so wrong!! And rather patronisingly wrong too. Do you think I'm some dumb old dear who can't think for herself?!!. Did you not notice the opening 'irrelevant P.S.? *sigh*
Susan,
Not at all sure what difference the 'irrelevant P.S' makes - it was not at all clear if you had understood that it was the Tories lying.
I agree with Christine that it is depressing to see that they have won the election by lying throughout and avoiding scrutiny, hiding behind a three word slogan.
Labour at least had some idea of the kind of society they want us to have - although I would agree they were unable to demonstrate how they could build and run it.
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Just heard absolute fuckwit Labour MP Richard Burgon on the radio explaining why Labour lost by blaming everyone and everything he could think of except for Corbyn and the people around him. Absolutely clueless. This stuff is making me angry now - just at the time when we so desperately need well-funded healthcare, education, social welfare etc as the tories are about to take an even bigger axe to all of it this joker just doubles down to ensure it's even less likely to happen come another election. It's pure People's Front of Judea stuff while the scumbags move in unimpeded and dismantle everything good they can lay their self-serving little hands on.
Corbyn: the gift that keeps on giving - to the tories.
blue,
I agree with you about Burgon
He's just a self serving busybody gobshite who likes the limelight and the sound of his own voice (which to me sounds as camp as pink Christmas tree)
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Just heard absolute fuckwit Labour MP Richard Burgon on the radio explaining why Labour lost by blaming everyone and everything he could think of except for Corbyn and the people around him. Absolutely clueless. This stuff is making me angry now - just at the time when we so desperately need well-funded healthcare, education, social welfare etc as the tories are about to take an even bigger axe to all of it this joker just doubles down to ensure it's even less likely to happen come another election. It's pure People's Front of Judea stuff while the scumbags move in unimpeded and dismantle everything good they can lay their self-serving little hands on.
Corbyn: the gift that keeps on giving - to the tories.
Yes, I heard that too ...never mind - just seen Walter's post!
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Christine's comment is unpleasant and untrue. >:(
No it isn't. Re-read the whole part of that thread again.
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No it isn't. Re-read the whole part of that thread again.
I have and her initial comment wasn't pleasant, imo.
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I have and her initial comment wasn't pleasant, imo.
The point is SD hadn't realised it was the Tories who lied about the child on the floor and then lied about a Labour activist punching someone. So SD was wrong. Christine had every right to point that out when I had also done the same as had other posters.
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Apparently a wedding ring has been found in a ballot box in Greater Manchester, which is rather strange, especially as no one has come forward to claim it. I wonder if the person put it in the box deliberately to spite their partner, maybe after a row?
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Christine's comment is unpleasant and untrue. >:(
In what way is it untrue?
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A sad end. So we now have Peter Bottomley as Father of the House.
Ah, I'll do some name dropping, my friend is friends with him (I know virtually nothing about him except he lives near Hastings).
BHS:- "Corbyn: the gift that keeps on giving - to the tories."
Yes inadvertently. He didn't do or say anything wrong, he just didn't do or say anything with enough emphasis to make it memorable. I think he's a good bloke but he doesn't make his presence felt sufficiently to impact on most of the public. He suits me, I'd be happy to talk with and listen to him whilst sitting in armchairs by the fire but others want more than that. I do not understand why anybody wants Boris apart from Brexiteers.
Glad the Brexit party sank.
In what way is it untrue?
Hope don't mind me butting in but LR merely misunderstood, didn't read Christine's comment in context. Susan got something wrong, we all do that, it's in the past now though.
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Hope don't mind me butting in but LR merely misunderstood, didn't read Christine's comment in context. Susan got something wrong, we all do that, it's in the past now though.
And she should apologise to Christine surely?
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We don't know that she hasn't but that's between them, doubt Christine is bothered. It's not my gig but I don't like to see anyone piled on for making a mistake.
I'll say no more about it.
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We don't know that she hasn't but that's between them, doubt Christine is bothered. It's not my gig but I don't like to see anyone piled on for making a mistake.
I'll say no more about it.
Why is asking LR a question a pile on? That seems like quite an unpleasant accusation?
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Adam Hills on The Last Leg tonight better than any politician
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Adam Hills on The Last Leg tonight better than any politician
Though as a programme it needs to get out of the bubble. The idea that we have to hold the govt to account is correct and doesn't matter about who you vote for.
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Though as a programme it needs to get out of the bubble. The idea that we have to hold the govt to account is correct and doesn't matter about who you vote for.
They are being better balanced here.
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There are various posts above commenting on whether I was wrong about a claim made in the news. The only thing I'll apologise for is mentioning it - as an irrelevant P.S.- please note the word irrelevant- in the first place.
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If I have wronged Christine I apologise.
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That is so wrong!! And rather patronisingly wrong too. Do you think I'm some dumb old dear who can't think for herself?!!. Did you not notice the opening 'irrelevant P.S.? *sigh*
Susan - you get things wrong sometimes - it happens. It is getting very boring if your ego keeps requiring you to bring up your age every time you are corrected on a mistake you have made rather than argue the actual point being challenged.
Other posters are corrected on their mistakes and acknowledge it or argue the point under discussion. The only person who seem to think of you as "dumb" or "old" on here seems to be you as you are the only person bringing it up *sigh*
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Susan - you get things wrong sometimes - it happens. It is getting very boring if your ego keeps requiring you to bring up your age every time you are corrected on a mistake you have made rather than argue the actual point being challenged.
Other posters are corrected on their mistakes and acknowledge it or argue the point under discussion. The only person who seem to think of you as "dumb" or "old" on here seems to be you as you are the only person bringing it up *sigh*
So now why are you bringing it up again?!! There will be no more comments on political topics from me.
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So now why are you bringing it up again?!! There will be no more comments on political topics from me.
I am not bringing it up. You brought it up. I am responding to your comment and just trying to make you aware that you bringing it up in your comments on threads seems to be getting to be a bit of a habit for you - in case you hadn't realised. If you had realised and are happy to continue bringing it up, it's a free country.
The English language hasn't changed has it? The last time I checked, responding to you bringing it up is not the same as bringing something up myself.
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Some analysis on NI
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/the-new-electoral-reality-in-northern-ireland-and-how-the-dup-hit-rock-bottom-nigel-dodds-belfast-north
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My heart bleeds for the DUP, NOT!
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Labour MP John Mc Donnell is not a happy bunny, he is refusing to be part of any shadow cabinet, should he be asked to do so.
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Some analysis on NI
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/the-new-electoral-reality-in-northern-ireland-and-how-the-dup-hit-rock-bottom-nigel-dodds-belfast-north
Interesting stuff. I thought that Brexit is a form of English nationalism, hence Scots and Irish are surplus to requirements. I don't know whether that leads to independence and unity respectively, but it seems likely.
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Interesting stuff. I thought that Brexit is a form of English nationalism, hence Scots and Irish are surplus to requirements. I don't know whether that leads to independence and unity respectively, but it seems likely.
Essentially, the Tories aere starting to be seen as a far-right English National Party up here.
Johnson is even less popular than Thatcher - and he hasn't started yet.
His government has already said they would refuse a section 30 order for Indyref 2 - playing right into Sturgeon's hands.
The bonds which tied the UK together are weakening daily.
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Glad to see that that deeply unpleasant little shit Zac Goldsmith got booted out by Sarah Olney. Very sorry that Dennis "the legend" Skinner lost, and slightly sorry that Anna Soubry did, even if she is a former tory.
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Some analysis on NI
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/the-new-electoral-reality-in-northern-ireland-and-how-the-dup-hit-rock-bottom-nigel-dodds-belfast-north
These are certainly interesting times and I am glad the DUP has lost its seats to more liberal parties.
Hopefully, Labour's loss of seats in Parliament means that in the very near future they will have a new leader, a less hard-Left manifesto and one that better reflects the cultural values of their traditional voters, if they actually want to be elected into power. A new approach may also make them a more credible Opposition and a serious challenge to the Tories in the next election.
My constituency retained its Labour candidate. I voted for my local MP rather than the leader of any of the parties. I am one of the voters who did not have any major aversion to Corbyn but did not see him as a statesman or leader of a country and did not believe that Labour could deliver economically or practically on many of its manifesto promises - I thought some of their policies would be a shambles - but I liked my MP, who had defied the party whip. I admit I did not want Boris in power - not because of his comments about letterboxes, watermelons etc as I am not offended by his use of satire - but because I see him an an arrogant, over-privileged buffoon. I find him to be untrustworthy, self-serving and lacking in attention to detail in a job that requires precision.
But regardless, he is PM and I await developments - these are certainly interesting times.
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We must now hold the tories to their promises - 50,000 new nurses, 30 new hospitals, and more police (can't remember the exact number promised).
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We must now hold the tories to their promises - 50,000 new nurses, 30 new hospitals, and more police (can't remember the exact number promised).
20,000 though that is less than they got rid of. And remember that it isn't 50,000 new nurses - it is 31,000 and retaining 19,000 who would have left. And watch out for page 48
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echo echo ECHO
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echo echo ECHO
Want to challenge the comment about accuracy?
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Want to challenge the comment about accuracy?
er?
Is it compulsory? 😱
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Glad to see that that deeply unpleasant little shit Zac Goldsmith got booted out by Sarah Olney. Very sorry that Dennis "the legend" Skinner lost, and slightly sorry that Anna Soubry did, even if she is a former tory.
Not weeping any tears over Jo Swansong.
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Not weeping any tears over Jo Swansong.
7/10 for that one Steve 😬
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er?
Is it compulsory? 😱
No, would just save you from being tedious. I'm all about the caring.
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7/10 for that one Steve 😬
If you mean the pun on her name, I'm afraid I can't claim credit. Someone on Facebook called her that.
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No, would just save you from being tedious. I'm all about the caring.
What a sap
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If you mean the pun on her name, I'm afraid I can't claim credit. Someone on Facebook called her that.
i should have known ::)
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Like it or not, which I don't, Boris is going to be in office for at least the next five years. He needs to pull his socks up and stop aping that idiot across the pond. The task before him is not going to be easy especially where trying to sort out the NHS is concerned. Hopefully he will get his act together and prove his doubters wrong.
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This is not a political comment - as I said yesterday, I shall notmake any more political comments.
I have a straightforward question and am simpy interested in a simple, e.g. yes/no, answer. I will not make comments on the replies.
Do Labour supporters agree that many people voted conservative because it was the ony way they would achieve a Brexit, a separation from the EU?
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This is not a political comment - as I said yesterday, I shall notmake any more political comments.
I have a straightforward question and am simpy interested in a simple, e.g. yes/no, answer. I will not make comments on the replies.
Do Labour supporters agree that many people voted conservative because it was the ony way they would achieve a Brexit, a separation from the EU?
Yes, probably - which makes them idiots twice over: for voting Tory, and for wanting Brexit.
If Scotland, Wales and Northern ireland became independent, and stayed in the EU, would we end up with a full Englsih Brexit?
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This is not a political comment - as I said yesterday, I shall notmake any more political comments.
I have a straightforward question and am simpy interested in a simple, e.g. yes/no, answer. I will not make comments on the replies.
Do Labour supporters agree that many people voted conservative because it was the ony way they would achieve a Brexit, a separation from the EU?
That is no doubt one reason, but I suspect dislike to Corbyn as a potential PM was another.
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This is not a political comment - as I said yesterday, I shall notmake any more political comments.
I have a straightforward question and am simpy interested in a simple, e.g. yes/no, answer. I will not make comments on the replies.
Do Labour supporters agree that many people voted conservative because it was the ony way they would achieve a Brexit, a separation from the EU?
Not a Labour supporter - but would agree that a reasonable percentage of voters switching from Labour to Conservative did so for brexit. Why they voted for brexit is a different matter - one that Labour (and LibDem) failed to address.
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SteveH, Littleroses and Udayana
Thank you for your replies.
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That is no doubt one reason, but I suspect dislike to Corbyn as a potential PM was another.
So how come Corbyn, in this election and the 2017 one, got more votes than Miliband, Brown and Blair, in 2015, 2010, and 2005? The Tory victory is due to our useless fptp voring sytem. We need to switch to single transferable vote.
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Steve H ;
The kind of bloke who insists his measuring tape is wrong when he cuts a piece of wood too short !
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So how come Corbyn, in this election and the 2017 one, got more votes than Miliband, Brown and Blair, in 2015, 2010, and 2005? The Tory victory is due to our useless fptp voring sytem. We need to switch to single transferable vote.
Goodness knows, I don't think they realised then quite what a truly rubbish party leader he would be.
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Goodness knows, I don't think they realised then quite what a truly rubbish party leader he would be.
He got the Labour party more votes in his two elections than they got in any of the previous three! How is thst being a rubbish leader?
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He got the Labour party more votes in his two elections than they got in any of the previous three! How is thst being a rubbish leader?
He was hopeless in the Commons and such a limp cabbage he couldn't stand up against May and Boris. It took the Labour Party too long to see how useless he was, if they had worked it out sooner they might not have lost this election so badly, they might have even won.
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You regularly accuse others of holding beliefs without evidence, but you are here holding one in spite of contrary evidence. I give up - there's no arguing with such rock-hard prejudice.
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You regularly accuse others of holding beliefs without evidence, but you are here holding one in spite of contrary evidence. I give up - there's no arguing with such rock-hard prejudice.
That is amusing coming from you who have made plenty of comments on this and other threads which scream your prejudiced views. As for Corbyn my evidence is the way he performed in the Commons, which was pathetic. Most people with whom I am acquainted thought he was no sort of leader, and many of them were Labour supporters.
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*SusanD*:- Do Labour supporters agree that many people voted conservative because it was the ony way they would achieve a Brexit, a separation from the EU?
Yes I certainly think that was a decisive factor couple with immigration. He made the right noises to attract traditional working class Labour supporters who are afraid of 'foreigners' changing their way of life.
Corbyn is a good man whom I believe has integrity but stays true to himself as far as he can. Politicians who want the top job often have to curry favour and compromise their values, he wouldn't have found that easy. You could tell that by the way he talked about Brexit; he was personally in favour of it but most of his party were not so he was prepared to go along with what they wanted, after all his job was/is to represent them, but with little enthusiasm. He also said he would act according to what the majority of the GBP voted which was Brexit. It was that simple to him.
Very interesting personality type.
It's possible he is now relieved that he won't be Labour's leader for much longer, he won't be the first party leader to feel like that. He'll carry on being useful in other ways.
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Corbyn useful? Thanks for giggle, Robbie. ;D ;D ;D
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Blog from a Labour canvasser that sounds correct.
https://eyalclyne.wordpress.com/2019/12/13/reflections-on-our-defeat-and-the-challenge-ahead/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
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That's a very good read NS. This part particularly resonated with me:-
"I think that the voters did not want a ‘nice old man,’ who ‘never did any wrong’ almost inhumanely, who always engages in calm discussions, but would favour a more relatable and animated person, who gets angry sometimes (after all, we have much to be angry about), and whom is perhaps more dominant in conversations and offers simple messages, like Jonson, or better yet, Bernie Sanders. Remember that people vote more emotionally than rationally, as an expression of their identities and wishes, and, sadly, our leader, whose policies and personality were my own reasons for joining the canvassing, wasn’t screen popular with the masses."
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Robbie
Thank you for reply.
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That's a very good read NS. This part particularly resonated with me:-
"I think that the voters did not want a ‘nice old man,’ who ‘never did any wrong’ almost inhumanely, who always engages in calm discussions, but would favour a more relatable and animated person, who gets angry sometimes (after all, we have much to be angry about), and whom is perhaps more dominant in conversations and offers simple messages, like Jonson, or better yet, Bernie Sanders. Remember that people vote more emotionally than rationally, as an expression of their identities and wishes, and, sadly, our leader, whose policies and personality were my own reasons for joining the canvassing, wasn’t screen popular with the masses."
Yes, despite the various serious accusations about Corbyn as regards anti Semitism, and commemorating terrorists, there seems a general idea that he was just 'not up to it', in part because we have killed nuance in politics. The Tories ran a better campaign this time simply by not introducing a policy that scared their core vote.
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This is not a political comment - as I said yesterday, I shall notmake any more political comments.
I have a straightforward question and am simpy interested in a simple, e.g. yes/no, answer. I will not make comments on the replies.
Do Labour supporters agree that many people voted conservative because it was the ony way they would achieve a Brexit, a separation from the EU?
I'm not an any party supporter but in this election I voted Conservative as the surest way possible to complete the leave process.
Regards, ippy.
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I'm not an any party supporter but in this election I voted Conservative ...
You'll be telling me next that the Pope is a Catholic.
... as the surest way possible to complete the leave process.
And when exactly do you think the leave process will be completed Ippy - assuming we formally leave the EU on 31st Jan onto the transitional arrangement the leave process will likely continue for years until we have a permanent new trading/regulatory/movement arrangement in place. And unless that can be achieved in 6 months (no-one with any credibility thinks it can) then we will be back into the world of extensions or no-deal cliff edges again come the summer.
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Do Labour supporters agree that many people voted conservative because it was the ony way they would achieve a Brexit, a separation from the EU?
My own experience is that there is some truth to that, but I also know a Labour activist who did a lot of canvassing in the campaign and his take away is that a lot of people he spoke to just refused to vote for a party led by Jeremy Corbyn.
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So how come Corbyn, in this election and the 2017 one, got more votes than Miliband, Brown and Blair, in 2015, 2010, and 2005? The Tory victory is due to our useless fptp voring sytem. We need to switch to single transferable vote.
Blair got a higher percentage of the vote in 2005. Brown and Milliband both lost by smaller margins than Corbyn in this election.
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I seem to have caused a bit of a stir by pointing out that the Tories lied, not the sick child, his mother or any Labour activists. The nurse in the photo was a nurse, not an actor dressed up. The hospital apologised. Have a look at the Yorkshire Evening Post.
LittleRoses, I apologised if my comment on how depressing it is that the Tory lie machine is so effective came over as a criticism of SusanDoris, did you not see that post?
What I posted was not deliberately unpleasant and not untrue.
You're a funny fellow, Walter, aren't you? It takes a real talent to find humour in things like people dying of poverty on our streets and working people needing foodbanks. As you're so talented, perhaps you could find an argument or a fact or two to hang your insults on? Any examples of my 'indoctrination' you want to share yet? Don't you want to expose my unthinking allegiance to slogans?
If I'm wrong and we aren't living in the modern equivalent of Cabaret (an analogy that struck me while I was struggling to enjoy the Strictly final) I'll be delighted.
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Ippy and JeremyP
Thank you for replies to my question.
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I seem to have caused a bit of a stir by pointing out that the Tories lied, not the sick child, his mother or any Labour activists. The nurse in the photo was a nurse, not an actor dressed up. The hospital apologised. Have a look at the Yorkshire Evening Post.
LittleRoses, I apologised if my comment on how depressing it is that the Tory lie machine is so effective came over as a criticism of SusanDoris, did you not see that post?
What I posted was not deliberately unpleasant and not untrue.
You're a funny fellow, Walter, aren't you? It takes a real talent to find humour in things like people dying of poverty on our streets and working people needing foodbanks. As you're so talented, perhaps you could find an argument or a fact or two to hang your insults on? Any examples of my 'indoctrination' you want to share yet? Don't you want to expose my unthinking allegiance to slogans?
If I'm wrong and we aren't living in the modern equivalent of Cabaret (an analogy that struck me while I was struggling to enjoy the Strictly final) I'll be delighted.
As far as I'm concerned, every post is read in a normal voice, without change for different writers, so something that one person might,correctly,hear in his/her head as sarcastic, or humourous, or angry, I hear them all similarly and rely on the words themselves.
this is just a comment, not political, or requiring response!!
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Feel the democracy
"Morgan named culture secretary
Nicky Morgan has been confirmed as Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.
She will be made a Tory peer."
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Feel the democracy
"Morgan named culture secretary
Nicky Morgan has been confirmed as Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.
She will be made a Tory peer."
I don't recall ever voting for members of the cabinet. The prime minister has always just appointed them.
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I don't recall ever voting for members of the cabinet. The prime minister has always just appointed them.
It's the HoL issue. She's now voting as a peer for life.
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It's the HoL issue. She's now voting as a peer for life.
Oh, I see. Yes, that's a good point. She should really leave the House of Lords when she gets fired. Either that, or there should be provision for ministers not to have to be members of Parliament.
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Oh, I see. Yes, that's a good point. She should really leave the House of Lords when she gets fired. Either that, or there should be provision for ministers not to have to be members of Parliament.
Yep, agree. And it looks like Swinson is going to be ennobled because the LDs so live up to that Democrat part.
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Boris the Liar is also Boris the Idiot...
Brexit bill to block further delay to transition (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50818134)
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Boris the Liar is also Boris the Idiot...
I thought that was so self-evident that it didn't really need saying, although admittedly some people seem remarkably able to ignore that which is plain to see.
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The problem, for me, isn't just Boris Johnson, Johnson could be reined in (in theory) by a competent cabinet, but look at the veritable box of tools he's working with: Rees-Mogg, Duncan-Smith, Patel, Javid and Gove... I can't understand how even the most pathologically Europe-averse leaver could have voted for that bunch to save them from the past decade of, well, that bunch...
Depressing that in a drive for a bad solution to a problem that doesn't exist we've got the promise of a solution to a problem that does exist from the people that created the problem who are idealogically driven to deepen the problem...
I hope Scotland gets independence, I can claim dual-citizenship!
O.
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Boris the Liar is also Boris the Idiot...
Brexit bill to block further delay to transition (http://www.religionethics.co.uk/news/election-2019-50818134)
We all know what Boris thinks about business...
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Feel the democracy
"Morgan named culture secretary
Nicky Morgan has been confirmed as Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.
She will be made a Tory peer."
Felt the democracy in 2016.
Shami Chakrabarti chaired the inquiry into antisemitism in the Labour Party, which turned out to be a whitewash, and, surprise, surprise, became a Labour Member of the HoL. as Baroness Chakrabarti later in the same year.
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Felt the democracy in 2016.
Shami Chakrabarti chaired the inquiry into antisemitism in the Labour Party, which turned out to be a whitewash, and, surprise, surprise, became a Labour Member of the HoL. as Baroness Chakrabarti later in the same year.
Seen elsewhere
'Zac Goldsmith, what a story. Son of humble billionaire, at 23 made editor of a magazine (owned by his uncle), gets Tory nom for leafy London seat at 32, loses the seat twice in 3 years, (also losing London mayoral race). Elevated to the House of Lords. Truly, the British dream.'
The HoL is a cesspit of corruption.
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Zac Goldsmith is an utterly unprincipled snake. He and Sarah Olney (LD) took it in turns to represent the good burghers of Richmond for some years. Now she's got it back, I hope she keeps it. She's probably got it for at least five years, anyway.
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Zac Goldsmith is an utterly unprincipled snake. He and Sarah Olney (LD) took it in turns to represent the good burghers of Richmond for some years. Now she's got it back, I hope she keeps it. She's probably got it for at least five years, anyway.
But he's worked so hard to get where he is!
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But he's worked so hard to get where he is!
He obviously modelled himself on Alan B'Stard.
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He obviously modelled himself on Alan B'Stard.
B'Stard wasn't thick enough to do this
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/zac-goldsmith-bollywood-favourite-film-actor-awards-cringeworthy-interview-watch-video-a7008896.html
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You'll be telling me next that the Pope is a Catholic.
And when exactly do you think the leave process will be completed Ippy - assuming we formally leave the EU on 31st Jan onto the transitional arrangement the leave process will likely continue for years until we have a permanent new trading/regulatory/movement arrangement in place. And unless that can be achieved in 6 months (no-one with any credibility thinks it can) then we will be back into the world of extensions or no-deal cliff edges again come the summer.
As I've said in my area voting Conservative was the best bet for leave, as for when we leave I think it's likely we'll be leaving on Jan 31-20 and of course there'll be endless ranging over the details because true to form they wont be seeing it's in the EU's best interests to smooth the path for us, but there, the UK as a country isn't exactly known for being clueless when dealing with other trading groups.
Unlike you I think leaving is a positive move, something if no matter how long we were to discuss this with each other we aint very likely to agree on any of it.
Just thought I'd add that I could have just about tolerated the original EEC arrangement although I did vote against that having toured across Europe several times I could see how poor they were over there at that time and I knew we would have to go down some way before the whole thing would be brought up to speck and only then hopefully our standards would start to better, so I thought, no thanks and voted accordingly.
In several areas the women were still down by the river banks banging out their washing, I'm not making that up, but that's not the only reason I'm a leaver, you're very welcome to your EU, just do me the favour of not taking me with you.
Regards, ippy.
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As I've said in my area voting Conservative was the best bet for leave, as for when we leave I think it's likely we'll be leaving on Jan 31-20 and of course there'll be endless ranging over the details because true to form they wont be seeing it's in the EU's best interests to smooth the path for us, but there, the UK as a country isn't exactly known for being clueless when dealing with other trading groups.
Unlike you I think leaving is a positive move, something if no matter how long we were to discuss this with each other we aint very likely to agree on any of it.
Just thought I'd add that I could have just about tolerated the original EEC arrangement although I did vote against that having toured across Europe several times I could see how poor they were over there at that time and I knew we would have to go down some way before the whole thing would be brought up to speck and only then hopefully our standards would start to better, so I thought, no thanks and voted accordingly.
In several areas the women were still down by the river banks banging out their washing, I'm not making that up, but that's not the only reason I'm a leaver, you're very welcome to your EU, just do me the favour of not taking me with you.
Regards, ippy.
I think we will live to regret leaving the EU.
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As I've said in my area voting Conservative was the best bet for leave, as for when we leave I think it's likely we'll be leaving on Jan 31-20 and of course there'll be endless ranging over the details because true to form they wont be seeing it's in the EU's best interests to smooth the path for us, but there, the UK as a country isn't exactly known for being clueless when dealing with other trading groups.
Except that the EU has conflicting interests - a good trade deal financially for the EU is also a good deal for the UK financially, but politically the EU could do with the UK not getting a good deal out of leaving to discourage others from leaving and jeapordising the EU project - in exactly the same way that the purely financial concerns didn't amount to much in the Brexit vote (or we would have remained), so they aren't the be all and end all of the European side, either.
As to whether the UK is clueless or not when it comes to negotiating international trade it's been an awfully long time since very many Brits did any of it...
Unlike you I think leaving is a positive move, something if no matter how long we were to discuss this with each other we aint very likely to agree on any of it.
Quite how leaving a priveleged position in a trade block of the most affluent countries in the world in favour of trying to compete on the global free-for-all against the US and China for pieces of the pittance that comes out of Africa, South America and Asia is a good move escapes me, but it seems that's what we're committed to now.
Just thought I'd add that I could have just about tolerated the original EEC arrangement although I did vote against that having toured across Europe several times I could see how poor they were over there at that time and I knew we would have to go down some way before the whole thing would be brought up to speck and only then hopefully our standards would start to better, so I thought, no thanks and voted accordingly.
I voted Remain because of how well we did at Crimea... oh, wait, no, that was ancient history, too...
O.
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I think we will live to regret leaving the EU.
But not for as long as we might have done, if the NHS sell-off goes smoothly...
O.
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Except that the EU has conflicting interests - a good trade deal financially for the EU is also a good deal for the UK financially, but politically the EU could do with the UK not getting a good deal out of leaving to discourage others from leaving and jeapordising the EU project - in exactly the same way that the purely financial concerns didn't amount to much in the Brexit vote (or we would have remained), so they aren't the be all and end all of the European side, either.
As to whether the UK is clueless or not when it comes to negotiating international trade it's been an awfully long time since very many Brits did any of it...
Quite how leaving a privileged position in a trade block of the most affluent countries in the world in favour of trying to compete on the global free-for-all against the US and China for pieces of the pittance that comes out of Africa, South America and Asia is a good move escapes me, but it seems that's what we're committed to now.
I voted Remain because of how well we did at Crimea... oh, wait, no, that was ancient history, too...
O.
It wasn't my intention to lash out at remainers and the women down by the river bashing out their washing out on the rocks was just pre the 1975 EEC referendum time when I was over there and did actually see these things amongst others for myself.
As to whether you may or may not have not come to anything like a similar conclusion to me about the things I saw at that time, well that's up to you I wont be joining in as I indicated in my previous post.
Regards, ippy.
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It wasn't my intention to lash out at remainers and the women down by the river bashing out their washing out on the rocks was just pre the 1975 EEC referendum time when I was over there and did actually see these things amongst others for myself.
So, you base your current opinions on behaviour you claim to have observed 45 years ago?
The past is a different country: they do things differently there.
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So, you base your current opinions on behaviour you claim to have observed 45 years ago?
The past is a different country: they do things differently there.
Yes H H, 45 years ago when the referendum for entering the EEC was looming, I wasn't referring to the present day, I would have thought that was obvious.
ippy.
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There was no referendum for entering the Common Market. The fact that you think there was in an indication of the unreliability of your memories.
As for the recollection of women washing by streams, is your argument (!) that this must still be the case?
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There was no referendum for entering the Common Market. The fact that you think there was in an indication of the unreliability of your memories.
As for the recollection of women washing by streams, is your argument (!) that this must still be the case?
The EEC, Harold Wilson's referendum or vote you chose the word you want to use!
Do you really think that I think women doing washing by the river was the only indicator of the state of health of economies at that time.
Is it really necessary to write a lengthy thesis that is also legally sound every time we pass on an observation that should be easily understood.
Alright we may not agree about the recent EU stuff?
ippy
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The EEC, Harold Wilson's referendum or vote you chose the word you want to use!
That wasn't a referendum to join the Common market/EEC/EU. We were already a member - the referendum was on whether we should remain a member or leave.
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That wasn't a referendum to join the Common market/EEC/EU. We were already a member - the referendum was on whether we should remain a member or leave.
IIRC:
We joined after a number of failed attempts - having lost the Empire and failing to build the Commonwealth as a cooperative trading block.
Even after joining the UK limped along as the "sick man of Europe" until, ironically, the benefits of EEC trade kicked in under the Thatcher government.
The EEC was needed to rebuild industry in Western Europe after obliteration in WWII, and has grown in influence and power ever since, helping pull Southern and Eastern Europe out of poverty.
It has had it's faults and made errors along the way, but so do all cooperative endeavours.
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That wasn't a referendum to join the Common market/EEC/EU. We were already a member - the referendum was on whether we should remain a member or leave.
Thank you Proff, hardly worth the trouble on such a minor point.
ippy
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IIRC:
We joined after a number of failed attempts - having lost the Empire and failing to build the Commonwealth as a cooperative trading block.
Even after joining the UK limped along as the "sick man of Europe" until, ironically, the benefits of EEC trade kicked in under the Thatcher government.
The EEC was needed to rebuild industry in Western Europe after obliteration in WWII, and has grown in influence and power ever since, helping pull Southern and Eastern Europe out of poverty.
It has had it's faults and made errors along the way, but so do all cooperative endeavours.
Always interesting to see another point of view.
Regards, ippy.
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Thank you Proff, hardly worth the trouble on such a minor point.
It's the "minor points" which indicate whether or not you have any understanding of what you are writing about. We are still awaiting some evidence that you have any real command of this matter beyond Daily Mail headlines. The United Kingdom had entered the EEC following a Conservative election victory in which joining the EEC had been a manifesto commitment.
The referendum of 1975 was held for exactly the same reason as the more recent referendum. Cameron held the referendum in order to shut down Rees Mogg and the ERG. Wilson used his referendum to silence Tony Wedgwood Benn and his coterie of hangers on. The main difference between the two events is that whereas Wilson was competent Cameron was slipshod and complacent.
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It's the "minor points" which indicate whether or not you have any understanding of what you are writing about. We are still awaiting some evidence that you have any real command of this matter beyond Daily Mail headlines. The United Kingdom had entered the EEC following a Conservative election victory in which joining the EEC had been a manifesto commitment.
The referendum of 1975 was held for exactly the same reason as the more recent referendum. Cameron held the referendum in order to shut down Rees Mogg and the ERG. Wilson used his referendum to silence Tony Wedgwood Benn and his coterie of hangers on. The main difference between the two events is that whereas Wilson was competent Cameron was slipshod and complacent.
HH
Thosee who can , do
Those who can't post messages on an obscure message board and feel pleased about themselves
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HH
Thosee who can , do
Those who can't post messages on an obscure message board and feel pleased about themselves
I think that you are very, very brave to admit to this - and on an obscure message board, too.
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Just thought I'd add that I could have just about tolerated the original EEC arrangement although I did vote against that having toured across Europe several times I could see how poor they were over there at that time and I knew we would have to go down some way before the whole thing would be brought up to speck and only then hopefully our standards would start to better, so I thought, no thanks and voted accordingly.
I'm in Belgium right now. They're not poor.
In several areas the women were still down by the river banks banging out their washing, I'm not making that up, but that's not the only reason I'm a leaver, you're very welcome to your EU, just do me the favour of not taking me with you.
The thing is, we are in the EU. It's not us dragging you along. It's you dragging us along.
And down.
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... as for when we leave I think it's likely we'll be leaving on Jan 31-20 and of course there'll be endless ranging over the details ...
The question was about 'when the leave process will be completed' not when we nominally leave the EU. And as you infer, but don't seem prepared to be clear on, this will take years. Boris' 'get brexit done' slogan is a lie as voting tory won't get it done for years.
because true to form they wont be seeing it's in the EU's best interests to smooth the path for us, but there, the UK as a country isn't exactly known for being clueless when dealing with other trading groups.
There will be a negotiation between two parties (the UK and the EU) who will both, quite rightly, be looking to protect their interests. The problem for the UK is that it wont be a negotiation between equals as we need their trade far more than they need ours. So it is likely that the final negotiated deal will be closer to that which the EU wants than the UK government. In a way I'm comfortable about that if it means we remain much closer in alignment to the EU.
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Just thought I'd add that I could have just about tolerated the original EEC arrangement although I did vote against that having toured across Europe several times I could see how poor they were over there at that time and I knew we would have to go down some way before the whole thing would be brought up to speck and only then hopefully our standards would start to better, so I thought, no thanks and voted accordingly.
In several areas the women were still down by the river banks banging out their washing, I'm not making that up, but that's not the only reason I'm a leaver, you're very welcome to your EU, just do me the favour of not taking me with you.
When and where was that Ippy.
I've travelled extensively across the EU member states and simply don't recognise your observation.
Actually one of the great achievements of the EU has been its ability to massively improve the economic position of its member states. There are a fair number that at the time of joining were genuinely poor (in many cases due to totalitarian regimes) and, due to EU membership, have become stable democracies with economies comparable to other traditionally 'rich' EU member states.
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It's the "minor points" which indicate whether or not you have any understanding of what you are writing about. We are still awaiting some evidence that you have any real command of this matter beyond Daily Mail headlines. The United Kingdom had entered the EEC following a Conservative election victory in which joining the EEC had been a manifesto commitment.
The referendum of 1975 was held for exactly the same reason as the more recent referendum. Cameron held the referendum in order to shut down Rees Mogg and the ERG. Wilson used his referendum to silence Tony Wedgwood Benn and his coterie of hangers on. The main difference between the two events is that whereas Wilson was competent Cameron was slipshod and complacent.
I have various reason for not wanting the now EU and the then EEC and I'm quite happy with my reasons for not wanting to be a part of the now EU.
Regards, ippy.
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When and where was that Ippy.
I've travelled extensively across the EU member states and simply don't recognise your observation.
Actually one of the great achievements of the EU has been its ability to massively improve the economic position of its member states. There are a fair number that at the time of joining were genuinely poor (in many cases due to totalitarian regimes) and, due to EU membership, have become stable democracies with economies comparable to other traditionally 'rich' EU member states.
Read my posts Proff the information you want me to give you is there.
Regards, ippy.
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So the madness and stupidity that is the BBC's political coverage continues.
In an interview with Tory MP Andrew Bowie about the SNP's ambitions for another Indy ref, the following question was put by Huw Edwards:
Given that the SNP achieved 48 seats don't you consider that a strong mandate for a referendum?
Bowie's reply was that the SNP only got 45% of the vote and he didn't consider that a mandate for anything.
Surely an open goal for Edwards to score in. No.
Did he say the UK government hasn't by your logic got a mandate either as you also got 45%?
No. Not a bit of it, just rambled on and said thank you very much to the MP.
I despair.
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So the madness and stupidity that is the BBC's political coverage continues.
In an interview with Tory MP Andrew Bowie about the SNP's ambitions for another Indy ref, the following question was put by Huw Edwards:
Given that the SNP achieved 48 seats don't you consider that a strong mandate for a referendum?
Bowie's reply was that the SNP only got 45% of the vote and he didn't consider that a mandate for anything.
Surely an open goal for Edwards to score in. No.
Did he say the UK government hasn't by your logic got a mandate either as you also got 45%?
No. Not a bit of it, just rambled on and said thank you very much to the MP.
I despair.
I'd like to say I'm surprised - but I don't like lying.
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I think that you are very, very brave to admit to this - and on an obscure message board, too.
Walter's 2 brain cells can post a couple of lines on an obscure message board. Expecting him to actually think through what he is posting might be asking too much of him.
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I have various reason for not wanting the now EU and the then EEC and I'm quite happy with my reasons for not wanting to be a part of the now EU.
Regards, ippy.
This posts reminds me of AB's reasons for his version of free will. No evidence or logic needed so long as your happy with your reasons Ippy.
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Given the rise of social media in informing people's opinions I am not surprised by the election result.
"Nearly 90% of Facebook ads paid for by the Conservative Party in the first few days of December contained misleading claims, an investigation has found. First Draft – a non-profit organisation which works on debunking fake news – analysed every ad promoted by the UK’s three main political parties on the social media giant in the first four days of December.
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/10/investigation-finds-88-tory-ads-misleading-compared-0-labour-11651802/?ito=cbshare
Noam Chomsky had an interesting line on "manufactured consent" by the media. The media tell the public what their corporate backers want them to hear in order to meet the needs of businesses.
Media costs a lot more than the public are willing to pay so corporate advertisers plug the funding gap in return for corporate access to the public, not just to sell them whatever increases corporate profit, but also to create myths around a manufactured bogeyman to discredit any criticism of the media-owners and corporations that might upset the status quo for the wealthy media bosses and business-owners. In this case, the bogeyman could be the EU.
It seems if you get 45% of the public to buy into the bogeyman myth you end up with the public voting against their own economic self-interest for something that is in the economic best interests of the wealthy 1%. Genius.
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Some people can be extremely gullible, imo.
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Given the rise of social media in informing people's opinions I am not surprised by the election result.
...
It would be good to actually get a handle on how social media affected voting in the elections - as opposed to msm. It must be confounded by the way that social media channels become echo chambers.
It seems if you get 45% of the public to buy into the bogeyman myth you end up with the public voting against their own economic self-interest for something that is in the economic best interests of the wealthy 1%. Genius.
Funny how those with the most money are good at getting the populace to vote to give them yet more.
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Some people can be extremely gullible, imo.
I agree!
Regards, ippy.
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It would be good to actually get a handle on how social media affected voting in the elections - as opposed to msm. It must be confounded by the way that social media channels become echo chambers.
Funny how those with the most money are good at getting the populace to vote to give them yet more.
Yes it's very clever how people with lots of money invest some of it in distracting people with little money into believing that there are more important considerations than money.
Rather than businesses and government having to invest in better infrastructure (that benefits everyone), it is economically beneficial to the wealthy to scapegoat the EU and their migrants to the UK, who pay more in taxes than they take out in benefits.
The end result is that we have UK born voters, who take out more in benefits than they pay in taxes, voting to be economically worse off and to increase inequality because this is less important to them than "taking back control".
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One of the things not talked about during the election
https://thecorrespondent.com/177/the-biggest-story-in-the-uk-is-not-brexit-its-life-expectancy/23433342405-302f1fdb?fbclid=IwAR3gqHNupOvxjS4lENToG3UlhXFGzCJjyqOIzLET_rmAog4n_PokosgTCOw
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Gosh, it seems we have an unelected official making far-reaching policy decisions (and ooh, does current employment law allow for people being "immediately binned"...?)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50978329
And
Zac Goldsmith was rejected by his electorate, but retains his government post via ennoblement.
Everyone happy with this?
Sorry if either have been discussed previously, I've not had access to the site for a couple of weeks. Happy new year all.
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The 'immediately binned' part will depend on the contract. Cummings is just playing a game.
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Zac Goldsmith was rejected by his electorate, but retains his government post via ennoblement. .
Goldsmith is an absolute disgrace, even by Tory standards. He probably models himself on Alan B'Stard.
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Goldsmith is an absolute disgrace, even by Tory standards. He probably models himself on Alan B'Stard.
He's never struck me as that intelligent. More a Piers Fletcher-Dervish with some b'stard advisors.
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He's never struck me as that intelligent. More a Piers Fletcher-Dervish with some b'stard advisors.
P F-D was dim but (for a Tory) decent. Goldsmith and B'Stard are unscrupulous psychopaths, although B'Stard, being fictional, is much worse.
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P F-D was dim but (for a Tory) decent. Goldsmith and B'Stard are unscrupulous psychopaths, although B'Stard, being fictional, is much worse.
Nah, B'stard is Boris. Zac is a puppet.
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I'd be interested in the views of people who voted Tory because they are so committed to democracy that a proportionally elected EU parliament didn't meet their requirement.
I think Cummings actions cannot be characterised as "a game". The fundamentals of our precarious freedoms and protections are being attacked. I don't think that my health or safety are of any concern whatsoever to the people running the country. They don't even pretend any more and their lack of concern for consequences scares me (though it could just be the psychopathic mind, they can't ALL be psychopaths, surely).
I've not heard any news since this morning, but I expect Johnson to wholeheartedly endorse Trump's warmongering distraction once Cummings has had the chance to tell him what to think.
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I've not heard any news since this morning, but I expect Johnson to wholeheartedly endorse Trump's warmongering distraction once Cummings has had the chance to tell him what to think.
I have a similar expectation. I fear the consequences of a typical ill-considered comment from Alexander Johnson on the fate of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe.
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https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/25/former-red-wall-areas-could-lose-millions-in-council-funding-review?
To which I can only say to those voters affected, were you really so naive as to trust the words of proven liars?
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S**t.
It is all so depressing.
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And the lies keep on coming:
https://tinyurl.com/lyingliarspt566
Or rather, revealed in all their breathtaking hypocrisy.