Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Steve H on December 13, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
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My vote and prediction go to Keir Starmer: firm left, but not considered extreme. The likely candidates, according to the i. (https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/next-labour-leader-candidates-odds-jeremy-corbyn-resignation-general-election-2019-keir-starmer-1340354)
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My vote and prediction go to Keir Starmer: firm left, but not considered extreme. The likely candidates, according to the i. (https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/next-labour-leader-candidates-odds-jeremy-corbyn-resignation-general-election-2019-keir-starmer-1340354)
I hope whoever it is has a coherent policy on Brexit
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As I have said on the election thread, I think our MP, Mark Tami, would make an excellent leader of the Labour Party.
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As I have said on the election thread, I think our MP, Mark Tami, would make an excellent leader of the Labour Party.
He's not exactly blessed with cabinet or shadow cabinet experience.
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He's not exactly blessed with cabinet or shadow cabinet experience.
He was a whip.
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I'd have thought Yvette Cooper would be high on the list.
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He was a whip.
Which isn't cabinet or shadow cabinet. It's a party function and as such he would be seen and portrayed as inexperienced
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I'd have thought Yvette Cooper would be high on the list.
Depends on what happens with the membership, I would doubt those who supported Corbyn would be keen. Not sure the Labour Party is leadable at the moment.
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Oddly, I agree with Corbyn .. they need to sort out what the party is about ... then select leaders who could achieve that.
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This is good on Labour's problem
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/labour-why-lost-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-media?__twitter_impression=true
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Keir Starmer for me.
Polly Toynbee on excoriating form in the Grauniad:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-manifesto-antisemitism-brexit
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Keir Starmer for me.
Jolly good. Don't agree with him about everything, but that's true of any candidate.
LR - who do you favour for leader that's got a realistic chance of getting the job?
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I think it is a great pity David Milliband is no longer a Labour MP I think he would have made a good party leader. However, I think Keir Starmer probably has what it takes to take over from Corbyn and do a much better job.
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I don't really care who takes over as long as they are not as utterly useless as Corbyn was.
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I'd have thought Yvette Cooper would be high on the list.
Yup, agree.
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Please, put your hands together and give a warm welcome for the exciting sound of the incredible
Dave Milli Band 😎
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In case you haven't got it yet, it doesn't matter:
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/ge2019-the-end-of-democracy-or-the-end-of-neoliberalism/
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In case you haven't got it yet, it doesn't matter:
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/ge2019-the-end-of-democracy-or-the-end-of-neoliberalism/
might as well top yourself now then Trent 😳
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Yup, agree.
She doesn't seem to have put herself forward. So far, it's between Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry, Jess Phillips, Angela Rayner, and Rebecca Long-Bailey.
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Corbyn has made a very half-hearted apology, if he was really sorry he would have handed in his resignation.
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might as well top yourself now then Trent 😳
No - I'll await the arrival of the lap dogs who'll bore me to death with their attempts at humour.
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Corbyn has made a very half-hearted apology, if he was really sorry he would have handed in his resignation.
He effectively has. He's said he'll stay on till a new leader is elected, in part this is forced on him because Tom Watson stood down so there is no deputy leader.
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No - I'll await the arrival of the lap dogs who'll bore me to death with their attempts at humour.
you should stop sucking lemons Trent .
A mouth screwed up like a cats arse is not a good look !
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He effectively has. He's said he'll stay on till a new leader is elected, in part this is forced on him because Tom Watson stood down so there is no deputy leader.
He has given the impression he would like to remain as leader for quite a while longer.
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She doesn't seem to have put herself forward. So far, it's between Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry, Jess Phillips, Angela Rayner, and Rebecca Long-Bailey.
All seem OK to me, except I can't stand Phillips. Starmer is certainly intelligent, lacks charisma? Maybe that's OK opposite the Liar in chief.
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He has given the impression he would like to remain as leader for quite a while longer.
No, he hasn't which is why there are already announced candidates for the leadership.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50781341
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He has given the impression he would like to remain as leader for quite a while longer.
Only to you. He will be stsanding down early in the new year. As for apologising, what the hell has he got to apologise for? the stupidity, bigotry, selfishness or all three of the people who voted Tory?
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No, he hasn't which is why there are already announced candidates for the leadership.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50781341
They are possible candidates not actual candidates yet.
Whoever is elected leader, they will be pointless if Momentum will actually be driving.
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All seem OK to me, except I can't stand Phillips. Starmer is certainly intelligent, lacks charisma? Maybe that's OK opposite the Liar in chief.
do you mean Jess(the misandrist)Phillips?
Who whines like a school girl if she doesn't get cast in the lead role of the 5th form pantomime .
Do you mean her ?
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Only to you. He will be stsanding down early in the new year. As for apologising, what the hell has he got to apologise for? the stupidity, bigotry, selfishness or all three of the people who voted Tory?
have a look in a mirror Steve
Can you see through your bitter tears ?
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the stupidity, bigotry, selfishness or all three of the people who voted Tory?
There were undoubtedly elements of that in the electorate but I don't think you can characterise those 45% of the electorate who voted for the Tories as such.
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It's no good just blaming people. Better to try to understand. One factor about Starmer is that he is identified with Remain. He will have to wear sackloth and ashes.
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There were undoubtedly elements of that in the electorate but I don't think you can characterise those 45% of the electorate who voted for the Tories as such.
👍👍👍
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have a look in a mirror Steve
Can you see through your bitter tears ?
What a childish post.
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Only to you. He will be stsanding down early in the new year. As for apologising, what the hell has he got to apologise for? the stupidity, bigotry, selfishness or all three of the people who voted Tory?
Corbyn has been a pathetic leader and has plenty for which to apologise. He lacked any sort of credibility and it is not surprising Boris has won hands down.
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There were undoubtedly elements of that in the electorate but I don't think you can characterise those 45% of the electorate who voted for the Tories as such.
Yes, i imagine lots saw it as the least bad option. Was surprised they didn't do better in Scotland given Brexit.
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What a childish post.
yes Steve , it's a reflection of your us and them attitude and your brown nosing quest for acceptance from others on here
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Steve's posts are the childish ones. ::) Many of us are fed up that Boris has had a landslide victory, but having a temper tantrum as he appears to be having is very silly indeed. Labour needs to get its act together, and choose a new leader whose performance will encourage former Labour supporters to return to the fold.
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Only to you. He will be stsanding down early in the new year. As for apologising, what the hell has he got to apologise for? the stupidity, bigotry, selfishness or all three of the people who voted Tory?
This sanctimonious sneering of the hard left will never win a majority.
Caroline Flint reported Thornberry as saying to someone ‘I’m glad my constituents aren’t as stupid as yours’.
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Steve's posts are the childish ones. ::)
Hilarious!!! Pots & kettles & all that.
I have an idea: why don't you and Steve ignore each other? There appears to be animosity between you, dunno why, but you don't have to respond to messages. It would certainly make life easier for you both.
yes Steve , it's a reflection of your us and them attitude and your brown nosing quest for acceptance from others on here
That is just plain nasty & totally unnecessary. Thought you were better than that.
(YOu can now call me a 'brown noser' whatever that is, i don't give a monkey's.)
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Robbie ,
Sometimes I think you're just too nice for this board (unlike Walter!).
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Hilarious!!! Pots & kettles & all that.
I have an idea: why don't you and Steve ignore each other? There appears to be animosity between you, dunno why, but you don't have to respond to messages. It would certainly make life easier for you both.
That is just plain nasty & totally unnecessary. Thought you were better than that.
(YOu can now call me a 'brown noser' whatever that is, i don't give a monkey's.)
Robbie when we want your advice we will ask for it. ::)
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LR and I have quite a lot of previous, on here and on other fora past and present. We irritate the hell out of each other, and are both guilty of winding the other up.
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Robbie when we want your advice we will ask for it. ::)
Have some more advice you don't want. You better get used to being given advice you don't want if you intend staying on this message board. You're welcome.
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Have some more advice you don't want. You better get used to being given advice you don't want if you intend staying on this message board. You're welcome.
YAWN! ::)
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Another vote for Keir Starmer. He seems a good communicator.
I liked how he cut through the spin about Brexit and trade deals with the EU: "Guess what? They're treaties. So when you sign a treaty you have – for the common good – given back again that bit of your sovereignty. The sovereignty that we gain will be for a millisecond between the signature that ends the major treaty and the signatures that enter the new treaties”
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what the hell has he got to apologise for?
Being a useless twat in charge ofHer Majesty's Opposition.
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It's no good just blaming people. Better to try to understand. One factor about Starmer is that he is identified with Remain. He will have to wear sackloth and ashes.
Only to get elected. After a couple of years it will be completely apparent that Brexit was a huge mistake and we can begin the process of getting back into the EU.
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Another vote for Keir Starmer. He seems a good communicator.
I liked how he cut through the spin about Brexit and trade deals with the EU: "Guess what? They're treaties. So when you sign a treaty you have – for the common good – given back again that bit of your sovereignty. The sovereignty that we gain will be for a millisecond between the signature that ends the major treaty and the signatures that enter the new treaties”
He is quite obviously a good communicator and intelligent - but his objectives and strategy on brexit were completely wrong.
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Being a useless twat in charge ofHer Majesty's Opposition.
He got more votes for labour in this election and in 2017 than Blair, Brown or Miliband got in the previous three elections. That the tories nevertheless won is due to our useless fptp voting system.
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That the tories nevertheless won is due to our useless fptp voting system.
And Farage's Brexit Party manoeuvre.
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Only to get elected. After a couple of years it will be completely apparent that Brexit was a huge mistake and we can begin the process of getting back into the EU.
I think Labour will have to avoid all mention of the EU for a long time. For those Labour traditionalists who voted Tory, Brexit will be done in January. After that they'll probably switch off from the whole mess because they'll have been listened to, got their way, and are, in any case, bored of Brexit. If the consequences of Brexit are as bad a you fear they're most unlikely to take any responsibility for them. Just as they blamed Brussels for all manner of Westminster policies they'll doubtless blame Westminster for the consequences of our newfound separation from Brussels. If Labour is to win these folk back it will have to become complicit in their lies and denials.
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Robbie when we want your advice we will ask for it. ::)
Even more hilarious :D.
It wasn't advice, merely a suggestion based on my opinion which came from what I observe. Don't worry I'm not out to spoil anyone's fun, play away.
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Even more hilarious :D.
It wasn't advice, merely a suggestion based on my opinion which came from what I observe. Don't worry I'm not out to spoil anyone's fun, play away.
;D ;D ;D
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From the BBC live thread
"On Sunday, former Labour MP Caroline Flint accused Ms Thornberry of telling one her colleagues from a Brexit-backing area: "I'm glad my constituents aren't as stupid as yours."
Ms Thornberry said the accusation was "a total and utter lie".
Asked about that this morning, the shadow foreign secretary accused Caroline Flint of making up “the most extraordinary lies about me”. She actually used another word, repeatedly, but it's not broadcastable at this time of the morning...
She said she had asked Ms Flint to withdraw the remarks, but she hadn't, “so I’ve had to go to solicitors.”
"This simply isn’t fair or right and you can’t just make things up on national television."
Ms Thornberry accused Ms Flint of engaging in "real schoolyard stuff", adding: "It's absolutely ridiculous, we have better things to think about.""
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From the BBC live thread
"On Sunday, former Labour MP Caroline Flint accused Ms Thornberry of telling one her colleagues from a Brexit-backing area: "I'm glad my constituents aren't as stupid as yours."
Ms Thornberry said the accusation was "a total and utter lie".
Asked about that this morning, the shadow foreign secretary accused Caroline Flint of making up “the most extraordinary lies about me”. She actually used another word, repeatedly, but it's not broadcastable at this time of the morning...
She said she had asked Ms Flint to withdraw the remarks, but she hadn't, “so I’ve had to go to solicitors.”
"This simply isn’t fair or right and you can’t just make things up on national television."
Ms Thornberry accused Ms Flint of engaging in "real schoolyard stuff", adding: "It's absolutely ridiculous, we have better things to think about.""
Pathetic behaviour on the part of them both, which isn't going to enhance Thornberry's leadership bid, imo.
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Pathetic behaviour on the part of them both, which isn't going to enhance Thornberry's leadership bid, imo.
If though Thornberry didn't say it, how is it pathetic behaviour on her part? If she did, why is it pathetic behaviour on Flint's part?
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If though Thornberry didn't say it, how is it pathetic behaviour on her part? If she did, why is it pathetic behaviour on Flint's part?
Having a spat like this in public has done neither of them any good, when it should have been settled in private.
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Having a spat like this in public has done neither of them any good, when it should have been settled in private.
If Thornberry didn't say it, then Flint put a lie into the public view - what else could she do to defend herself if Flint refused her request to withdraw the remark?
If Thornberry did say it, then surely it is in the public interest that a contender for leader of the opposition said it?
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He got more votes for labour in this election and in 2017 than Blair, Brown or Miliband got in the previous three elections.
2019: Corbyn 32.1% (result: lost)
2005: Blair 35.2% (result: won)
Blair, Brown and Milliband were not up against the current crop of Tories or the appalling record of the current government. A tub of lard should have been able to beat them. Furthermore, Blair managed to win in 2005 on the back of an illegal and unpopular war in Iraq.
The Conservatives polled nearly 40% more votes than Labour in 2019. In 2015, they only polled 21% more. In 2010, they only polled 24% more.
That the tories nevertheless won is due to our useless fptp voting system.
The the Tories had an overall majority is the fault of FPTP but they also had the highest percentage of votes of any party.
Do not blame anything except Jeremy Corbyn's complete unelectability for Labour's loss this time round. If you want Labour to win again, you need to be honest about the causes of defeat.
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He got more votes for labour in this election and in 2017 than Blair, Brown or Miliband got in the previous three elections. That the tories nevertheless won is due to our useless fptp voting system.
Between 2017 and 2019 there was a 7.8% change in vote share against Labour that needs to be accounted for.
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He is quite obviously a good communicator and intelligent - but his objectives and strategy on brexit were completely wrong.
True. I actually have no understanding of how the former Labour voters who voted Tory in this election feel. If they are the group that Labour need to keep happy to get elected then they better get busy finding someone who appeals to them, which presumably means someone who wants to leave the EU and didn't back a 2nd referendum.
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Rebecca Long-Bailey is the current favourite - she'll do nicely. She's well to the left, and used to be a postie.
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Rebecca Long-Bailey is the current favourite - she'll do nicely. She's well to the left, and used to be a postie.
No, no, no.
I know it shouldn't make a difference, but she has a negative effect on me. She will not appeal to voters. Even less than JC. It would be a mistake. If she were picked I would have to vote for another party. Has the same effect on me as Swansong.
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Rebecca Long-Bailey is the current favourite - she'll do nicely. She's well to the left, and used to be a postie.
Well to the left is bad. We need somebody that voters do not think of as a Marxist (as somebody told me JC is the other day).
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What's the point of having a leader if you don't know what you want?
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I hope the next leader of the Labour Party is a moderate, I would hate a left winger like Corbyn to take over from him. I reckon they would be handing power to the Tories for the foreseeable future if that is the case.
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Rebecca Long-Bailey is the current favourite - she'll do nicely. She's well to the left, and used to be a postie.
she' olso a Roman Catholic whic indicates to me that her grip on reality is highly suspect .
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Well to the left is bad. We need somebody that voters do not think of as a Marxist (as somebody told me JC is the other day).
What's the point, though of another Blairite type to give the electorate a choice of blue or red Tories? There's already a centrist party in the Lib Dems, and we saw how well they did. Corbynite policies attached to someone who's at least been in the same room as some charisma wouldn't be a bad starting point.
O.
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Thornberry announces
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50834286
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Thornberry announces
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50834286
she'd be fantastic as a prop forward for Leeds Rhinos 😤
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What's the point, though of another Blairite type to give the electorate a choice of blue or red Tories?
First of all, a Blairite government would be bliss compared to the den of thieves we have now. Secondly, the choice between "red tory" and "Jeremy Corbyn" is a false dichotomy. You can be Labour without being either of those.
There's already a centrist party in the Lib Dems, and we saw how well they did.
You don't want their 11.9% of the vote? If you add the Lib-Dem percentage to that of Labour you have more than the Tories polled.
Corbynite policies attached to someone who's at least been in the same room as some charisma wouldn't be a bad starting point.
And competence.
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First of all, a Blairite government would be bliss compared to the den of thieves we have now. Secondly, the choice between "red tory" and "Jeremy Corbyn" is a false dichotomy. You can be Labour without being either of those.
You don't want their 11.9% of the vote? If you add the Lib-Dem percentage to that of Labour you have more than the Tories polled.
And competence.
jeremy ,
Give me your address and I'll send you a new dummy !
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What colour would you like , pink or blue ?
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Why does this have to take so long?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51000133
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51000133
The new leader of the Labour Party will be announced on April 4th.
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April 4th will be here in no time!
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It should have been a month later, so we could say "May the 4th be with you".
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Semi colon D!
I don't feel particularly invested in any of the front runners. You mentioned Rebecca LB earlier, she's interesting but i fear people may be afraid of another left winger. I like how she talks though.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/06/rebecca-long-bailey-announces-labour-leadership-bid
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Semi colon D!
I don't feel particularly invested in any of the front runners. You mentioned Rebecca LB earlier, she's interesting but i fear people may be afraid of another left winger. I like how she talks though.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/06/rebecca-long-bailey-announces-labour-leadership-bid
The headline though seems to be if it wasn't for those pesky voters, we would have won. A party aiming to win a majority in the UK needs to to some extent either embrace the system and not imply that the majority of voters are stupid and sheep, or make tearing down the system the objective, and somehow convince people it is needed.
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Yes, I can't see her being successful in this.
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The confirmed field. The next stage may well reduce the numbers.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51089217