Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Spud on December 21, 2019, 09:47:00 PM
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Do we need a nuclear deterrent?
If chemical weapons are banned internationally, why not nuclear weapons?
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Do we need a nuclear deterrent?
If chemical weapons are banned internationally, why not nuclear weapons?
well they make lovely paterns in the sky 😱
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Do we need a nuclear deterrent?
If chemical weapons are banned internationally, why not nuclear weapons?
My view of course is that there should be unilateral disarmament, always believed that. However many folk think having nuclear weapons is a deterrent to enemies & that's why we still have them. Polaris went which caused great joy in the peace movement, then we had Trident (something else in between the two iirc).
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I absolutely agree with you, which makes a nice change. As CND likes to point out, they cost vast sums, and at best will never be used.
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I absolutely agree with you, which makes a nice change. As CND likes to point out, they cost vast sums, and at best will never be used.
Christmad(sic) nom de plume, Steve? Good for you! I might do the same.
And I agree. Trident is a phallic substitute for power and relevance. Get rid.
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Ilike to use a daft name evry os often.
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Until every country relinquishes its nuclear weapons I think it would be a huge mistake for the UK to disarm.
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Until every country relinquishes its nuclear weapons I think it would be a huge mistake for the UK to disarm.
Well, it'll never happen, in that case. What terrible consequence do you imagine would follow unilateral disarmament by the UK?
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Well, it'll never happen, in that case. What terrible consequence do you imagine would follow unilateral disarmament by the UK?
We would be much more vulnerable, if we disarmed, imo.
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We would be much more vulnerable, if we disarmed, imo.
Vulnerable to what? How do all the countries that haven't got nuclear weapons survive?
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Vulnerable to what? How do all the countries that haven't got nuclear weapons survive?
The Russians seem to be making a nuisance of themselves where the UK is concerned, their planes and ships are often being chased off by our fighter planes. I should think Putin would be delighted if the UK got rid of its weapons. Fortunately it ain't going to happen whilst Boris is on the throne!
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The Russians seem to be making a nuisance of themselves where the UK is concerned, their planes and ships are often being chased off by our fighter planes. I should think Putin would be delighted if the UK got rid of its weapons. Fortunately it ain't going to happen whilst Boris is on the throne!
And how have our nuclear weapons helped in resisting Russian incursions? How could they help?
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Do we need a nuclear deterrent?
If chemical weapons are banned internationally, why not nuclear weapons?
Nope.
I first demonstrated alongside Christian CND and the Iona community against Polaris in 1978.
I'm delighted to say that that was the year the Church of Scotland endorsed its' opposition to nuclear weapons in general, and them being based near Scotland's biggest city in particular...a position the Kirk has debated four times since, each time affirming opposition.
Scotland's parliament (not just the SNP government_ has opposed this menace twice, as have the Convention of Scottish local Authorities (COSLA), the STUC, etc.
Time they were listened to.
Get this abomination away from these islands.
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Ilike to use a daft name evry os often.
i prefer to ignore the Oliphant in the room !
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Until every country relinquishes its nuclear weapons I think it would be a huge mistake for the UK to disarm.
Great.
You can park them next to your town, then.
And, while you're at it, can you take the Polaris subs now rotting near Edinburgh? They have still not been decomissioned and their reactors removed.
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i prefer to ignore the Oliphant in the room !
[/quote ::) ;D
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The Russians seem to be making a nuisance of themselves where the UK is concerned, their planes and ships are often being chased off by our fighter planes. I should think Putin would be delighted if the UK got rid of its weapons. Fortunately it ain't going to happen whilst Boris is on the throne!
So in what circumstances would you use Nuclear weapons?
I ask because leaders say we maintain them as a deterrent. If so, and we are attacked by nuclear weapons would you use it then? Because they have clearly at that point failed as a deterrent. If you do retaliate it is then game over for everyone. No one wins. SO why are we maintaining weapons that we will only ever use as a response which will bring about the end of this world as we know it?
Added on to that is the cock up theory. As we have seen in other areas where high-tech operation systems exist (think Boeing 737 Max) - there are often unforeseen consequences as a result of upgrades or new systems. Why are we such stupid risk takers?
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I wish nuclear weapons had never been created, but since they have, and the only country to own them was stupid enough to use them knowing there would be no reprisals, it seems to make sense to hold on to ours. Since WW2 they have acted as a deterrent and have not been used again, thank goodness. It would be great if every country who has a nuclear capability disarmed, and could be proved to have done so, but until that time comes, the UK should hold onto its weapons, imo.
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Anchs;
Christian CND ? The sense of being at the height of moral superiority must have been overwhelming 😇
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'MAD' is a mad policy, and always will be, and it does seem unlikely that the UK would ever use them - so they are an expensive white elephant. Plus they are just a half hour drive from where I'm sitting right now - so, target-wise, those of us located in this part of Scotland are quite close to a likely bulls-eye.
When Scotland becomes independent, which given the recent GE result and since the UK will tank under a Tory Brexit that is now a real possibility, then we'll see the back of them: but I'm sure they'd look lovely moored in the Thames, or maybe in Portsmouth.
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Anchs;
Christian CND ? The sense of being at the height of moral superiority must have been overwhelming 😇
Mope. Mucky, wet, asnd the only compensation for the above two being tea - or lager, if we were not fortunate enough to be arrested.
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I wish nuclear weapons had never been created, but since they have, and the only country to own them was stupid enough to use them knowing there would be no reprisals, it seems to make sense to hold on to ours. Since WW2 they have acted as a deterrent and have not been used again, thank goodness. It would be great if every country who has a nuclear capability disarmed, and could be proved to have done so, but until that time comes, the UK should hold onto its weapons, imo.
How about answering the points made?
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Well, it'll never happen, in that case. What terrible consequence do you imagine would follow unilateral disarmament by the UK?
]The worst consequence is that lots of people will lose their jobs.
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So in what circumstances would you use Nuclear weapons?
I ask because leaders say we maintain them as a deterrent. If so, and we are attacked by nuclear weapons would you use it then? Because they have clearly at that point failed as a deterrent. If you do retaliate it is then game over for everyone. No one wins. SO why are we maintaining weapons that we will only ever use as a response which will bring about the end of this world as we know it?
Because, if you don't have nuclear weapons, another country that does have them can hold you hostage.
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Because, if you don't have nuclear weapons, another country that does have them can hold you hostage.
Then why aren't all the many countries that don't have nuclear weapons being held hostage?
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Then why aren't all the many countries that don't have nuclear weapons being held hostage?
Because the global community won't let them do it. And the global community has a lot of nuclear weapons. If nobody had nuclear weapons except North Korea (for example) then there wouldn't be North Korea, but united Korea with a couple of smouldering slag heaps where some of the medium sized South Korean cities used to be.
I fully admit this is not an argument that the UK specifically needs nuclear weapons, but somebody on the side of freedom and democracy does.
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Great.
You can park them next to your town, then.
And, while you're at it, can you take the Polaris subs now rotting near Edinburgh? They have still not been decomissioned and their reactors removed.
The 'Monster in the Loch'
(fellow CND member here).
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They may also be the only available way to prevent the use of chemical weapons by rogue states?
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The 'Monster in the Loch'
(fellow CND member here).
I think the chap who inspired me as a young Christian, to demonstrate, was Ian Tweedlie, then a local minister and a member of the Iona Community.
He was banged up for 28 days in the nick - Gordon and NS will recognise the term 'Bar-l' - for protesting at the Holy Loch - there was a misnomer if ever there was one.
I was chained to a few others in a demo three years later. We were quite miffed when qwe were only cautioned...three folk in the line next to us were nicked and jailed.
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They may also be the only available way to prevent the use of chemical weapons by rogue states?
Evidence?
By the way, it didn't perevent Russia this year, did it?
As Salisbury.
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You know you're getting old when....
.....something you remember ends up in a blasted museum.
I remember having a cuppa at the Faslane Peace Caravan...a rather decrepit, manky wee thing, but it had a stove, tea and cups - even if there was more bacteria in the cups than in the muck in which the caravan stood.
Now the blasted thing is a museum exhibit in Glasgow's Riverside Museum.
http://www.rampantscotland.com/riverside/page/image43.html
It stands as a testimony to the many, from all walks of life, who kept up a vigil against Polaris and Trident.
Don't worry - it's been replaced by a modern version with better stoves, less bacteria and an internet connection.
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Evidence?
By the way, it didn't perevent Russia this year, did it?
As Salisbury.
You know there’s a difference between assassinating an individual and whips g out an army in a war.
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You know you're getting old when....
.....something you remember ends up in a blasted museum.
I remember having a cuppa at the Faslane Peace Caravan...a rather decrepit, manky wee thing, but it had a stove, tea and cups - even if there was more bacteria in the cups than in the muck in which the caravan stood.
Now the blasted thing is a museum exhibit in Glasgow's Riverside Museum.
http://www.rampantscotland.com/riverside/page/image43.html
It stands as a testimony to the many, from all walks of life, who kept up a vigil against Polaris and Trident.
Don't worry - it's been replaced by a modern version with better stoves, less bacteria and an internet connection.
My older son was a Faslane peace camper for a year or two in the 90s. Some crappy fashion chain or other pinched their initials (FCUK). I'll send him that link.
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Did I start this in the Theism and Atheism category? I wouldn't be surprised, as I found the cheese in the bread bin the other day.
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Did I start this in the Theism and Atheism category? I wouldn't be surprised, as I found the cheese in the bread bin the other day.
There was method in your madness. 'Ploughshares' was, and is, a Christian anti-war movement in the States.
Its' equivalent, Trident Ploughshares, is based on Christian ethics, teaching and grounded in the injunction to beat our swords into ploughshare.
We are an umbrella group, and the bunch I'm involved with, the Iona Community, buys into the group 100%.
http://tridentploughshares.org/introducing-tp/
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You know you're getting old when....
.....something you remember ends up in a blasted museum.
I remember having a cuppa at the Faslane Peace Caravan...a rather decrepit, manky wee thing, but it had a stove, tea and cups - even if there was more bacteria in the cups than in the muck in which the caravan stood.
Now the blasted thing is a museum exhibit in Glasgow's Riverside Museum.
http://www.rampantscotland.com/riverside/page/image43.html
It stands as a testimony to the many, from all walks of life, who kept up a vigil against Polaris and Trident.
Don't worry - it's been replaced by a modern version with better stoves, less bacteria and an internet connection.
I sent that photo to my older son in Australia, who was a Faslane camper in the 90s. He says that it was called "No. 10", and that he lived in it for a few months when he first arrived. He reckons it went to the museum in '97.
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I sent that photo to my older son in Australia, who was a Faslane camper in the 90s. He says that it was called "No. 10", and that he lived in it for a few months when he first arrived. He reckons it went to the museum in '97.
Yes. That was the old Kelvin Hall site.
It's in the fantastic Glasgow Riverside museum now - oh, and so uis a Polaris missile (sans warhead, of course!)
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Did I start this in the Theism and Atheism category? I wouldn't be surprised, as I found the cheese in the bread bin the other day.
Join hte club, when you put car keys in fridge is time to worry .