Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Science and Technology => Topic started by: SusanDoris on May 20, 2020, 08:27:36 AM
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On the GH boards, there are posters who claim that rocks have some form of consciousness. I understand that quartz crystals are widely used, but do the rocks from which they come, or any rokcks have any measurable energy of any sort?
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On the GH boards, there are posters who claim that rocks have some form of consciousness. I understand that quartz crystals are widely used, but do the rocks from which they come, or any rokcks have any measurable energy of any sort?
That rather depends on how you define 'energy', which is a term that gets co-opted and misused in a number of ways, and both deliberately and accidentally.
Ultimately, matter is energy concentrated into a particular framework (Einstein's E=mc2 and all that) so it is energy in one sense. Most crystalline structures also have a range of harmonic frequencies to which they react which is sometimes referred to as an 'energy', but in that sense there is no energy coming from the crystal itself, it's responding to whatever the source of the vibration is (this is essentially how early digital watches worked - quartz crystals vibrate at exactly 32,768 oscillations per second and can be vibrated by a very minor electrical charge).
In the broader sense any object with mass has various intrinsic forms of energy - gravitational potential energy from being at a particular point in a gravity well, kinetic energy from being in motion - but these are not intrinsic to the crystalline nature, nor are they unique to crystals.
In the conventional scientific thinking the 'spiritual energy' claims of crystals are not backed by any evidence I'm aware of. Some specific claims about effects purported to be of crystals' 'mystic' properties have been debunked, but there are always new claims and new provisos.
O.
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On the GH boards, there are posters who claim that rocks have some form of consciousness.
There is no evidence for this. There is some speculation (guesswork) that consciousness in fundamental and therefore everything is, to a tiny degree, conscious.
I understand that quartz crystals are widely used, but do the rocks from which they come, or any rokcks have any measurable energy of any sort?
As Outrider has indicated, energy in the scientific sense is present in all sorts of forms in rocks, and anything else for that matter, but woo peddlers tend to misuse the term and make unsupported claims about it.
Just one correction to what Outrider said: it's a (very) common misconception that E = mc2 means that energy and matter are equivalent (you even see it in some pop-science books and articles). The m stands for mass, not matter. Both energy and mass are properties of things, not things in themselves.
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On the GH boards, there are posters who claim that rocks have some form of consciousness. I understand that quartz crystals are widely used, but do the rocks from which they come, or any rokcks have any measurable energy of any sort?
This is a variant of panpsychism which has been popularised recently by Philip Goff.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panpsychism/
The idea is that there is consciousness in everything even down to the fundamental particles of the universe. It's complete nonsense.
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That rather depends on how you define 'energy', which is a term that gets co-opted and misused in a number of ways, and both deliberately and accidentally.
Ultimately, matter is energy concentrated into a particular framework (Einstein's E=mc2 and all that) so it is energy in one sense. Most crystalline structures also have a range of harmonic frequencies to which they react which is sometimes referred to as an 'energy', but in that sense there is no energy coming from the crystal itself, it's responding to whatever the source of the vibration is (this is essentially how early digital watches worked - quartz crystals vibrate at exactly 32,768 oscillations per second and can be vibrated by a very minor electrical charge).
In the broader sense any object with mass has various intrinsic forms of energy - gravitational potential energy from being at a particular point in a gravity well, kinetic energy from being in motion - but these are not intrinsic to the crystalline nature, nor are they unique to crystals.
In the conventional scientific thinking the 'spiritual energy' claims of crystals are not backed by any evidence I'm aware of. Some specific claims about effects purported to be of crystals' 'mystic' properties have been debunked, but there are always new claims and new provisos.
O.
Many thanks for your very interesting reply. So a small electrical charge of some sort causes crystals to vibrate? What is the state of the rock or crystals when not responding to such an electrical charge? Do the crystals just keep oscillating at 32,768 per second? What about the rest of the rock in which they are found?
Unfortunately, there is a never-ending set of people who wil do anything they can to try to confirm their faith beliefs.
May I use one or two of the scientific factual parts of your direct words in my GH response, please? I will preface them by saying, 'I have found out that....'
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Strangers and JeremyP
thank you for your posts. I keep an eagle eye open for all the woo stuff- and there's plenty of it!! - and do not let it pass unchallenged.
Last week, I started a topic: Aliens and their means of travel. :) It is interesting to respondand of course at the moment I have plenty of time to do so.
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What is GH?
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What is GH?
It doesn't matter. If you want to investigate, that's up to you. My heart sinks at the thought of you joining - I'd probably have to ignore your posts!!
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Many thanks for your very interesting reply. So a small electrical charge of some sort causes crystals to vibrate? What is the state of the rock or crystals when not responding to such an electrical charge? Do the crystals just keep oscillating at 32,768 per second? What about the rest of the rock in which they are found?
OK, quartz is piezoelectric (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectricity) so mechanical distortion creates an electrical potential and vice versa, which means you can stimulate it with electricity to induce an oscillation that can also be detected electronically.
The resonate frequency depends on the crystal's physical size and shape. They are often literally cut in the shape of a tiny tuning fork. The 32,768 Hz is by design because it's a power of 2 (215), which means you can use simple binary circuits to divide it down to one cycle per second to use in a clock.
See: Quartz clock (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_clock), and in particular Quartz clock - Mechanism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_clock#Mechanism).
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Just one correction to what Outrider said: it's a (very) common misconception that E = mc2 means that energy and matter are equivalent (you even see it in some pop-science books and articles). The m stands for mass, not matter. Both energy and mass are properties of things, not things in themselves.
Clarification, rather than correction, I wasn't trying to go into too much depth on it. The equation refers to mass, but the implication of that (given that, in earlier convention, mass and energy were independent things) is that the two are facets of the same concept.
O.
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Many thanks for your very interesting reply. So a small electrical charge of some sort causes crystals to vibrate? What is the state of the rock or crystals when not responding to such an electrical charge? Do the crystals just keep oscillating at 32,768 per second? What about the rest of the rock in which they are found?
Without the electrical charge (or some other energy input) there is nothing to make the crystals resonate. If they are embedded in another rock it starts to get complicated. Each material within the rock will have its own harmonic frequency - crystalline structures, like quartz, will be fairly consistent, whereas other rock-types will have frequencies that depend more on their shape and the relative densities within sections. It's possible that a random piece of mixed rock might have a combination of harmonic frequencies where you could get it to resonate, but most often individual elements will dampen each other out and no overall consistent effect will be observed.
The simplest analogy I can think of is that it's a little like 'twanging' a ruler off the edge of a desk, and then trying the same thing with a pencil case which has a ruler in it...
May I use one or two of the scientific factual parts of your direct words in my GH response, please? I will preface them by saying, 'I have found out that....'
You're more than welcome - I'm not a citation on the internet!!! Woohoo! :)
O.
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It doesn't matter. If you want to investigate, that's up to you. My heart sinks at the thought of you joining - I'd probably have to ignore your posts!!
And a very good day to you too!
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And a very good day to you too!
Considering most of your posts on this Forum, can you really be surprised at the lady's decision?
I'm not!
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Strangers and Outrider
Thank you very much for your further replies. I will read them again carefully this afternoon and sort out my GH response.
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It doesn't matter. If you want to investigate, that's up to you. My heart sinks at the thought of you joining - I'd probably have to ignore your posts!!
I googled. The only GH message board I could find was to do with the soap opera 'General Hospital. I'm not interested in soaps, so you need not fear my sullying your message board.
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I googled. The only GH message board I could find was to do with the soap opera 'General Hospital. I'm not interested in soaps, so you need not fear my sullying your message board.
http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/
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Considering most of your posts on this Forum, can you really be surprised at the lady's decision?
I'm not!
I have just written and posted myresponse about the topic and on the way via this topic and following up the links, I have had a most interesting morning, for which my thanks to all.
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http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/
:) And my post is on the Inner Space board!!
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http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/
Thanks. Looks interesting, but I spend too long online as it is, so I'l spare SD my presence.
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Considering most of your posts on this Forum, can you really be surprised at the lady's decision?
I'm not!
Mind your own flaming business!
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Susan I have just joined the GH forum, but haven't as yet posted anything.
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Susan I have just joined the GH forum, but haven't as yet posted anything.
Thank you for mentioning it. What is your user name there? As you will see, I have posted and started topics in Inner Space and Paranormal! Any help I can give, please pm here or e-mail me.
It was the first forum I joined, and the other day one of the mods gave me the link to my first post - which contained a spelling error! That was back in 2005.
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Thank you for mentioning it. What is your user name there? As you will see, I have posted and started topics in Inner Space and Paranormal! Any help I can give, please pm here or e-mail me.
It was the first forum I joined, and the other day one of the mods gave me the link to my first post - which contained a spelling error! That was back in 2005.
Thanks Susan I have sent you a PM.
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Decided to join after all. Sorry, SD, I'm afraid you'll just have to put up with me.
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Looked up Graham Hancock on Wikipedia. He's obviously a total fruitcake, but the forum might be interesting. I can always leave if the tinfoil-hat brigade get too infuriating.
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Decided to join after all. Sorry, SD, I'm afraid you'll just have to put up with me.
:D Okay! I look forward to the challenge! what is your user name there and let me know which board and topic has your first post.
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SteveH. I'm now waiting for the email that lets me confirm my registration.
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Sorry Susan, I have decided that GH isn't for me, especially now Stevie boy has just joined it. I have to put up with his presence on R&E, the only forum which we now both share, as yesterday I left the other forum on which we both posted.
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If it'll keep you happy, I won't confirm my registration.
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If it'll keep you happy, I won't confirm my registration.
The forum isn't for me, with or without your presence, my dear, so please confirm your registration.
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The forum isn't for me, with or without your presence, my dear, so please confirm your registration.
OK, will do. Thanks. So you've left St Thads? I look forward to your return before the end of June. ::)
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OK, will do. Thanks. So you've left St Thads? I look forward to your return before the end of June. ::)
You will look forward to it in vain. I have enough stresses in my life without my BP hitting the roof when a couple of members, who shall be nameless, post. I am not talking about you BTW. I am very tempted to tell them in no uncertain terms what I actually think of them, but that would be wrong. I decided to leave without making an issue of it. I have removed the forum from my browser so I am not tempted to look in on it again.
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Still haven't received the email from GH forum that I need to activate my membership. I'm not that bothered about joining, so if it doesn't arrive, sod 'em.
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Still haven't received the email from GH forum that I need to activate my membership. I'm not that bothered about joining, so if it doesn't arrive, sod 'em.
Mine arrived with in minutes after I applied for membership.
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Thanks. Looks interesting, but I spend too long online as it is, so I'l spare SD my presence.
Wot have you done to to Susan Constable-Jed :-)? I've witnessed you and Littleroses rubbing each other up wrong way but not you and Susan. I miss everything that goes on & usually turn up when it's over.
I'm looking at the Hancock forum too.
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I finally got on to the GH board, but decided, like LR, that it's not really for me, so have left.
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I finally got on to the GH board, but decided, like LR, that it's not really for me, so have left.
Flipping heck, we have something in common, I feel faint! :P ;D
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Wot have you done to to Susan Constable-Jed :-)? I've witnessed you and Littleroses rubbing each other up wrong way but not you and Susan. I miss everything that goes on & usually turn up when it's over.
I'm looking at the Hancock forum too.
I don't know. I admit that I was slightly taken aback by her abrupt response to my question.
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I don't know. I admit that I was slightly taken aback by her abrupt response to my question.
I'm afraid I've forgotten what you said and also my response! :) I tend not to spend time on wishy-washy replies - I listen to posts and respond where I think I have something to say , to challenge or to support.