Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Walt Zingmatilder on May 07, 2021, 07:23:38 AM
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In a big ''fuck'' you to fishermen, nurses, the coronavirus bereaved, common sense and decency. The good people of Hartlepool have voted for a group of monkeys as a penance for hanging one some time ago.
We will now recieve our lecture on how we have to accept Brexit and understand this reaction as, for them a sensible reaction.
According to the Guardian voters blame labour for loss of jobs and Tory cuts in services.
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The Conservative majority appears to have been enabled by voters who had supported UKIP earlier. People who had supported Labour before but who had believed the irrational garbage of Farage are perceiving Johnson as a supporter of that cause.
Without a change in the electoral system, an independent Scotland will ensure that England is a one-party state.
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Apparently nobody was listening to the people of Hartlepool for decades.....mainly Tory decades.
What were they saying? No one seems to know.
I've never bought Ken Livingstone's view that people vote tory because labour aren't labour enough.
And why did they blame labour for Tory cuts?
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Well you do have to factor in the magnificent way the Tories play and fix the system:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/21/exclusive-labour-councils-in-england-hit-harder-by-austerity-than-tory-areas
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Well you do have to factor in the magnificent way the Tories play and fix the system:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/21/exclusive-labour-councils-in-england-hit-harder-by-austerity-than-tory-areas
Wouldn't that mean that they didn't know about austerity and just put it down to labour councils?
It would seem that this is an ''if you can't beat them join them'' reaction. What I don't think they realise is you can't vote tory and then become affluent because of it.....it's the other way round.
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Wouldn't that mean that they didn't know about austerity and just put it down to labour councils?
It would seem that this is an ''if you can't beat them join them'' reaction. What I don't think they realise is you can't vote tory and then become affluent because of it.....it's the other way round.
No argument from me. It's down to a lack of political engagement, or at least to a very superficial look at events. The Tories have been doing this for years, it is not new but they are getting more and more adept and brazen at it.
The problem down the line is that they will not be able to do this economically. There are the huge costs of the pandemic to figure out. There will be no levelling up done, I suspect there will be levelling down.
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No argument from me. It's down to a lack of political engagement, or at least to a very superficial look at events. The Tories have been doing this for years, it is not new but they are getting more and more adept and brazen at it.
The problem down the line is that they will not be able to do this economically. There are the huge costs of the pandemic to figure out. There will be no levelling up done, I suspect there will be levelling down.
Agreed I'm also wondering about Johnson's statement about them having lent Boris there votes. Was his ease at using the word lent betrayal of the tories being minded to ditch them when they had served their purpose?
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https://thecritic.co.uk/the-woodfired-brick-wall/
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In the late eighties it was my privilege to be able to persuade a tory colleague that they were ultimately a bad thing by pointing out that your tory does not only want to see her or himself moving up but they also want to see someone going down at the same time.
Titanic Britain may well be turning turtle as well as breaking in two.
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Another horror to come out of the result is the tories will now think they can let Covid rip.
Hartlepool demonstrates that nobody gives a shit about the bodies.
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Another horror to come out of the result is the tories will now think they can let Covid rip.
Hartlepool demonstrates that nobody gives a shit about the bodies.
Drivel.
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John McDonnell making a lot of sense on BBC news. There was no clear view in England of what Labour is currently for. Tye campaign in Scotland has been better, to the extent it was the best in my view of all the parties, and Labour's best here for at least 16 years. That said I doubt it will cut through much because it was a bit late and other factors got in the way.
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Another horror to come out of the result is the tories will now think they can let Covid rip.
Hartlepool demonstrates that nobody gives a shit about the bodies.
Don't quite see how you come to that conclusion.
However badly they have mismanaged most of this pandemic, it has never been in their interest to do any such thing.
When things were going badly for them for much of last year they suffered in the polls. Now with the vaccine roll out they are reaping the benefit (admittedly of the NHS doing such a good job in the main) but the one thing the Tories realised was the importance of a vaccine programme as a government they would be the beneficiaries of a certain "feel good" factor.
I think people do give a shit about the bodies and I think a reckoning will come but it is too early at the moment.
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Newsthumps take on Hartlepool:
https://newsthump.com/2021/05/07/hartlepool-looks-at-past-year-of-conservative-government-and-declares-ooh-yes-please/?
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Don't quite see how you come to that conclusion.
However badly they have mismanaged most of this pandemic, it has never been in their interest to do any such thing.
When things were going badly for them for much of last year they suffered in the polls. Now with the vaccine roll out they are reaping the benefit (admittedly of the NHS doing such a good job in the main) but the one thing the Tories realised was the importance of a vaccine programme as a government they would be the beneficiaries of a certain "feel good" factor.
I think people do give a shit about the bodies and I think a reckoning will come but it is too early at the moment.
I have to admit I was somewhat mystified at the Hartlepool result, but I think this post nails it.
The vaccine roll out has been a tremendous success and I think the government can take quite a lot of credit for that, in particular, for the way it seems to have managed to procure plenty of supplies of the vaccine. If you add in to the mix the fact that the EU totally botched up their vaccine programme, the voters of Hartlepool can see that, not only has the government saved us from COVID19, but they managed to stick one on Johnny Foreigner at the same time.
I know the above is a gross simplification of the real state of affairs, but the if the last six years have taught us anything, they have taught us that the average voter understands simple and can't be doing with complex.
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I strongly suspect that the governments success at rolling out the Covid vaccine (compared to the rest of Europe!) was a big factor.
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And from Peter Mandelson on BBC
Time and time again on the doorsteps, I heard if we have a Tory govt we might as well have a Tory MP as we have a better chance of getting money into the area
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And from Peter Mandelson on BBC
Time and time again on the doorsteps, I heard if we have a Tory govt we might as well have a Tory MP as we have a better chance of getting money into the area
Aye. This is no way to run a country.
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I have not been following the news as I just hear the occasional headlines, but I have noticed a lack of Labour people being quoted. I think perhaps they have been very weak in their efforts, but I don't know and, I have to say, don't care very much except that I know weak opposition is not good!
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And from Peter Mandelson on BBC
Time and time again on the doorsteps, I heard if we have a Tory govt we might as well have a Tory MP as we have a better chance of getting money into the area
Ow!
I don't know which frightens me more: that voters would think like that or that they might be right.
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I don't know which frightens me more: that voters would think like that or that they might be right.
I think you'll find your use of the word "might" in that sentence incorrect.
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Interesting that Andrew Adonis calling for Starmer to go. Attacked from both sides.
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I think you'll find your use of the word "might" in that sentence incorrect.
What word would you suggest instead? I don't think it's 100% guaranteed that Hartlepool will now be showered with government cash.
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What word would you suggest instead? I don't think it's 100% guaranteed that Hartlepool will now be showered with government cash.
Possibly not, but it would definitely seem to give them a better chance given Tory corruption.
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Isn't a major part of the problem the fact our main political parties appear to be based in the socio-cultural divisions of the past rather than identifiable modern political philosophies?
And that this is confounded by our first-past-the-post voting system?
The Green Party and the Lib Dems do appear to operate from a political philosophy basis but are hamstrung by fptp which favours the tribalism of the two main parties.
And then there is the situation where the leader of the Labour Party chooses to play down his achievements (former DPP, Queen's Counsellor, Knight of the Realm and the holder of two degrees -one from Oxford) possibly because they make him look like a successful Tory.
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What word would you suggest instead? I don't think it's 100% guaranteed that Hartlepool will now be showered with government cash.
It sounds like the other redwall constituencies are getting around the 20 million mark. Not sure what that buys or where it'll end up.
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Ben Houchen's win and indeed he is very impressive
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That Boris blimp is beautifully on record waiting for the day when Johnson is either replaced as leader or the Tories are voted out.
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Well, here's a peculiar thing. Down here in true blue West Sussex Labour have just increased their tally of County councillors from 5 to 9. Still a Tory council, but it is interesting. In our ward we got rid of a long standing Tory with a new Labour member. The Tories lost 10 seats.
It is not what I would call fertile ground for Labour and yet......
I draw no conclusions except that Labour fought a local campaign on local issues here and won. The suggestion in the press is that Labour did not nationally concentrate enough on local issues.
A way forward perhaps?
I'm not discounting other factors such as a changing demographic - Worthing is getting people who would normally gravitate to Brighton but find the place to expensive. Worthing is both cheaper and less frenetic than its brash neighbour.
Still I'm going to fan the very small flame of optimism this has engendered within me.
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Well, here's a peculiar thing. Down here in true blue West Sussex Labour have just increased their tally of County councillors from 5 to 9. Still a Tory council, but it is interesting. In our ward we got rid of a long standing Tory with a new Labour member. The Tories lost 10 seats.
It is not what I would call fertile ground for Labour and yet......
I draw no conclusions except that Labour fought a local campaign on local issues here and won. The suggestion in the press is that Labour did not nationally concentrate enough on local issues.
A way forward perhaps?
I'm not discounting other factors such as a changing demographic - Worthing is getting people who would normally gravitate to Brighton but find the place to expensive. Worthing is both cheaper and less frenetic than its brash neighbour.
Still I'm going to fan the very small flame of optimism this has engendered within me.
Here's hoping. Meanwhile SKY news is describing Labour victories sparks of hope and Andy Streets holding of his mayorality as a tory as joyous for them.
As somebody has pointed out press can't stop asking why people have abandoned labour but no bugger seems to be asking why people have gone to or stayed with Labour. It smells.
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Well, here's a peculiar thing. Down here in true blue West Sussex Labour have just increased their tally of County councillors from 5 to 9. Still a Tory council, but it is interesting. In our ward we got rid of a long standing Tory with a new Labour member. The Tories lost 10 seats.
It is not what I would call fertile ground for Labour and yet......
I draw no conclusions except that Labour fought a local campaign on local issues here and won. The suggestion in the press is that Labour did not nationally concentrate enough on local issues.
A way forward perhaps?
I'm not discounting other factors such as a changing demographic - Worthing is getting people who would normally gravitate to Brighton but find the place to expensive. Worthing is both cheaper and less frenetic than its brash neighbour.
Since I'm familiar with Worthing and I have a brother close to Hartlepool and now we see it on TV. I'm getting picture of Streets of new and affordable houses in Hartlepool and a dearth of that in Worthing. Given that Worthing has gone from being a jewel of a place with it's white buildings plush seafront and promenade and nice well manicured Gardens and parks to a place of pop up public houses and grass poking up through the pathways. I expect questions and criticisms to start coming from traditional Tory areas including who it is who being left behind.
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I am Angela Rayner: Deputy Leader, Shadow First Secretary of State, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Shadow Secretary of State for the Future of Work. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next
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Starmer more unpopular than Corbyn
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-polls-corbyn-labour-b1845588.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1620740099
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My aim is not to be offensive to Brexit and Tory supporters by calling them stupid.
So my mother had a Dog who had a bit of a proto evil streak like dropping a turd and then covering it with carefully torn newspaper.
Now when it was told off by my mother it would scan round the room to look for what it looked like the weakest person and snarl at them.
Of course these people aren't going to take it out on Boris.
The GBP seem to be in a race to hate each successive Labour leader more than the last one. This is a bit like north Korean generals getting more theatrical in their praise in order to please the dear leader or as a teacher of my acquaintance used to describe a difficult day with the pupils. The GBP are ''having a who can be the biggest arse contest.''
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I am Angela Rayner: Deputy Leader, Shadow First Secretary of State, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Shadow Secretary of State for the Future of Work. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next
I am Boris Maximus Spaffius Depfeffelium Johnson Prime minister, Interior decorator, Father to goodness knows how many, Ex Husband to two ex wives . And I will have my vengeance........... in the HARTLEPOOL BY ELECTION.
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Starmer more unpopular than Corbyn
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-polls-corbyn-labour-b1845588.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1620740099
Corbyn was unable to lead, but Starmer has not provided the leadership that was needed.
Even the post Hartlepool reshuffle makes no sense (to me at least). Labour need to demonstrate competency and integrity to contrast against Tories incompetent corruption - and have plans that will work and that everyone can see will work.
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Blair on Labour
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/05/tony-blair-without-total-change-labour-will-die
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I think because many voters have Stockholm syndrome labour should be contacting Cult deprogrammers and since we are talking about Johnson, maybe a few Cu*t deprogrammers too.
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The main problem is that the majority of the population still see Labour as a wishy-washy Communist party and seeing the practical application of these policies in both Russia and China want nothing to do with it.
The attachment of militant Left-wing unions, and their insistence on calling a strike everytime a member tears a fingernail, to the Labour party does not help them one iota!
The Bus strike in Hounslow, in the middle of Covid regulations easing passenger limitation regulations, which stopped all buses on the three main routes, for which the Unions refused to make public the reason/s, did nothing to help this situation.
This being a Union thing does not appear to have hurt the Mayor and Council aside from the fact that the Mayor and the Council both condemned the effect of the strike on people trying to get their kids to school and some to themselves to work.
This is not, in my experience, the first time that a strike by the various public service Unions has been a negative effect on a Labour vote.
But being, mostly, someone who finds almost ALL politicians of ALL parties self-serving 'I've got my arse on a seat in Westminster, when I choose to attend, giving me £100,000 plus per annum plus expenses and the voters can go fuck themselves' I have no confidence in how they are going to vote most of the time.
A Government with a Trump look-alike for a leader doesn't really inspire confidence. Except, possibly, in the U.S.
NOTE! Apologies to ANY and ALL who take offence at the above. I have a serious hatred of both politicians and unions.
Owlswing
)O(
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Add to the above this from NS in the Trans Rights thread
Joan Smith on Labour's women problem
https://unherd.com/2021/05/women-dont-feel-safe-with-labour/
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I wish I understood what is happening. I have no explanation for why the current government is so popular unless it's the Coronavirus crisis.
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Add to the above this from NS in the Trans Rights thread
I was wondering about that, but I don't think the trans gender issues really impinge on most voters' lives that much.
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The main problem is that the majority of the population still see Labour as a wishy-washy Communist party and seeing the practical application of these policies in both Russia and China want nothing to do with it.
This cold war fear you are expressing was a little before my time. It came to a head in the 70's. Strikes had an affect because there were power cuts and TV closed early then of course there were the gravedigger and bin men strikes of 78/79 since them and the IRA darkened what was otherwise a genteel decade. I voted for Thatcher in 1979 as an alternative to this but never realised that The defeat of Ted Heath because he was bested by the unions had initiated her madness
The attachment of militant Left-wing unions, and their insistence on calling a strike everytime a member tears a fingernail, to the Labour party does not help them one iota![/quote] There are a lot of hyperbolic scare stories put around about the seventies that weren't true and make people believe it was worse than it really was.
The Bus strike in Hounslow, in the middle of Covid regulations easing passenger limitation regulations, which stopped all buses on the three main routes, for which the Unions refused to make public the reason/s, did nothing to help this situation.
Never heard of it. In fact Bus drivers have put their lives on the line to keep the country moving
This being a Union thing does not appear to have hurt the Mayor and Council aside from the fact that the Mayor and the Council both condemned the effect of the strike on people trying to get their kids to school and some to themselves to work.
This is not, in my experience, the first time that a strike by the various public service Unions has been a negative effect on a Labour vote.
But being, mostly, someone who finds almost ALL politicians of ALL parties self-serving 'I've got my arse on a seat in Westminster, when I choose to attend, giving me £100,000 plus per annum plus expenses and the voters can go fuck themselves' I have no confidence in how they are going to vote most of the time.
A Government with a Trump look-alike for a leader doesn't really inspire confidence. Except, possibly, in the U.S.
NOTE! Apologies to ANY and ALL who take offence at the above. I have a serious hatred of both politicians and unions.
Owlswing
)O(
[/quote]
What do you think of the bosses union, the CBI?
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This cold war fear you are expressing was a little before my time.
The attachment of militant Left-wing unions, and their insistence on calling a strike everytime a member tears a fingernail, to the Labour party does not help them one iota! There are a lot of hyperbolic scare stories put around about the seventies that weren't true and make people believe it was worse than it really was. Never heard of it. In fact Bus drivers have put their lives on the line to keep the country moving
This being a Union thing does not appear to have hurt the Mayor and Council aside from the fact that the Mayor and the Council both condemned the effect of the strike on people trying to get their kids to school and some to themselves to work.
This is not, in my experience, the first time that a strike by the various public service Unions has been a negative effect on a Labour vote.
But being, mostly, someone who finds almost ALL politicians of ALL parties self-serving 'I've got my arse on a seat in Westminster, when I choose to attend, giving me £100,000 plus per annum plus expenses and the voters can go fuck themselves' I have no confidence in how they are going to vote most of the time.
A Government with a Trump look-alike for a leader doesn't really inspire confidence. Except, possibly, in the U.S.
NOTE! Apologies to ANY and ALL who take offence at the above. I have a serious hatred of both politicians and unions.
Owlswing
)O(
What do you think of the bosses union, the CBI?
Please? Were you piss3ed when you wrote this???
I truly hope so as I hate to think what else might have caused such a mess!
Owlswing
)O(
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A measured take on the local elections, worth a read:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/13/resounding-conservative-election-victory-local-devolved-polls
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A measured take on the local elections, worth a read:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/13/resounding-conservative-election-victory-local-devolved-polls
Kettle is right to flag up labour panic. During which Starmer immediately fell in with the conservative narrative that they had something to apologise for. Get's them everytime except for Corbyn who was overcome with the agoraphobia he managed to overcome in 2017.
And thus the Tories have again chosen one of the central Labour policies. Labour will be apologetic up until the next election.........Johnson is the incarnation of not being respected for apologising.
Once apologising is underway it will then somehow never be enough vis the antisemitism row vis the 2008 crisis