Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on February 12, 2023, 09:40:47 AM

Title: Why is there a row over Scotland's longest road?
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 12, 2023, 09:40:47 AM
It's going to be interesting to see how this story develops. Even previously loyal SNP MSPs have been muttering if the road goes through their consituency/electoral area.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-64581289
Title: Re: Why is there a row over Scotland's longest road?
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 14, 2023, 07:08:39 PM
Meanwhile in Wales


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64640215
Title: Re: Why is there a row over Scotland's longest road?
Post by: jeremyp on February 15, 2023, 02:38:57 PM
Meanwhile in Wales


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64640215

Meanwhile in Bristol...

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-bus-gate-plan-main-7963687

It will not have the hoped for effect on traffic since there is another road parallel to this on the other side of the river and that road will take all the traffic that would otherwise go through the bus gate. This road will therefore be a permanent traffic jam with cars sitting there idling their engines and polluting the city centre. How do I know that? Because that is what we have got now due to road works.

The serious point is that cancelling road projects is not necessarily going to improve the environment if the alternative is massive traffic jams.
Title: Re: Why is there a row over Scotland's longest road?
Post by: SqueakyVoice on February 15, 2023, 07:38:17 PM
 
Quote
author=Jeremyp
...

The serious point is that cancelling road projects is not necessarily going to improve the environment if the alternative is massive traffic jams.
Building more roads means more people use more cars.
https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/
There has been a survey that found out if bikes are given a separated path to cycle on, that also gives people more choice to drive (and use more cars etc).
IIRC, that was what happened in Stevenage. So unfortunately,  even building cycle paths wouldn't  help the environment.
Title: Re: Why is there a row over Scotland's longest road?
Post by: SqueakyVoice on February 15, 2023, 07:40:59 PM
(Found it quicker than I'd  expected.) https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/sep/19/britains-1960s-cycling-revolution-flopped-stevenage (https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/sep/19/britains-1960s-cycling-revolution-flopped-stevenage)
Title: Re: Why is there a row over Scotland's longest road?
Post by: jeremyp on February 16, 2023, 12:17:00 PM
Building more roads means more people use more cars.
https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/
There has been a survey that found out if bikes are given a separated path to cycle on, that also gives people more choice to drive (and use more cars etc).
IIRC, that was what happened in Stevenage. So unfortunately,  even building cycle paths wouldn't  help the environment.

I don't really believe that in the general case. It assumes that there is an infinite number of cars.
Title: Re: Why is there a row over Scotland's longest road?
Post by: SqueakyVoice on February 18, 2023, 11:44:50 AM
I don't really believe that in the general case. It assumes that there is an infinite number of cars.
I've only skimmed through this, but it does seem to make the point. https://onlinemasters.ohio.edu/blog/traffic-congestion-problems-and-solutions/ (https://onlinemasters.ohio.edu/blog/traffic-congestion-problems-and-solutions/)
Quote
The USDOT found that between 1980 and 2021, the U.S. built more than 870,000 lane miles of highway, yet pre-COVID-19 congestion was worse than it was in the early 1980s.
The exec summary suggests more buses for Cambridge; it's massively unlikely that Cambs would have more roads.; a bit of history and geography (I'm a bit of a fan of their guided buses and park and ride scheme.)
There could be an argument about cars increasing on technology and economics improvements. But it doubt a university  would have missed that in their survey.
Title: Re: Why is there a row over Scotland's longest road?
Post by: SqueakyVoice on February 18, 2023, 12:11:46 PM
P.S.
.https://onlinemasters.ohio.edu/blog/traffic-congestion-problems-and-solutions/  (https://onlinemasters.ohio.edu/blog/traffic-congestion-problems-and-solutions/The)
More sources at the bottom that might be quite interesting.
Quote
The Fourth Regional Plan, “Reduce Highway Congestion Without Adding New Lanes” (http://fourthplan.org/action/highway-congestion)
 
...
 Streetsblog, “Three Reasons Why Congestion Decreases When Cities ‘Delete’ Road Lanes” (https://cal.streetsblog.org/2022/05/13/three-reasons-why-congestion-decreases-when-cities-delete-road-lanes/)