Religion and Ethics Forum

Religion and Ethics Discussion => Theism and Atheism => Topic started by: Walt Zingmatilder on April 16, 2023, 10:28:06 AM

Title: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on April 16, 2023, 10:28:06 AM
Interesting article in the Spectator.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/belief-in-god-doesnt-come-from-a-fear-of-death/
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 16, 2023, 11:18:22 AM
Interesting article in the Spectator.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/belief-in-god-doesnt-come-from-a-fear-of-death/

.....it would be nice if religionists attended a little more carefully to the way that non-belief actually works before publishing their fashionable simplifications.
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on April 16, 2023, 12:18:46 PM
.....it would be nice if religionists attended a little more carefully to the way that non-belief actually works before publishing their fashionable simplifications.
How’s your chance to explain how non belief works.....will Toe take it? Not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 16, 2023, 12:54:56 PM
How’s your chance to explain how non belief works.....will Toe take it? Not holding my breath.
Some people don't believe. They live their lives. It works. The end
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: jeremyp on April 16, 2023, 02:22:55 PM
Interesting article in the Spectator.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/belief-in-god-doesnt-come-from-a-fear-of-death/

It seems to be saying that people believe in God, not because of a fear of death but because of a fear of life.

Quote
We have found that the secular orthodoxy is simply too weak to get us through the night. I mean the dark night of despair. Ah, so you need religion as a crutch, says the humanist – whether the fear is of death or despair. Well yes, he is right, more or less, and we should admit it
Really? Are you in agreement with him?
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Gordon on April 16, 2023, 05:14:43 PM
Reads to me like a theist indulging in a spot of rationalisation and ending with a brazen Courtier's Reply.
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on April 17, 2023, 08:33:21 AM
Some people don't believe. They live their lives. It works. The end
What then is ''a life that worked''
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 17, 2023, 09:26:11 AM
What then is ''a life that worked''
It's the bit in-between being born and death.
Life
If you are alive then it's working.
It stops working when you die.
No further explanation required.
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on April 17, 2023, 09:31:50 AM
It's the bit in-between being born and death.
Life
If you are alive then it's working.
It stops working when you die.
No further explanation required.
So there are no lives that don't work which renders your use of the phrase ''lives that work'' a bit peculiar
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 17, 2023, 09:37:31 AM
So there are no lives that don't work which renders your use of the phrase ''lives that work'' a bit peculiar
Examples of lives that don't work?
I'm assuming that you had something in mind when you wrote that?
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on April 17, 2023, 09:44:28 AM
Examples of lives that don't work?
I'm assuming that you had something in mind when you wrote that?
Don't chuck it back on me  You suggested atheism produces lives that work and then wrote something to suggest that a life that works is a tautology

If all lives ''work'' then, what is the specific virtue of an atheist life?
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 17, 2023, 10:25:51 AM
Don't chuck it back on me  You suggested atheism produces lives that work and then wrote something to suggest that a life that works is a tautology

If all lives ''work'' then, what is the specific virtue of an atheist life?
You introduced virtue, what do you mean by that?
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on April 17, 2023, 10:41:08 AM
You introduced virtue, what do you mean by that?
No I think you introduced the atheists virtue aka moral reason for holding to anything namely that it ''works''
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 17, 2023, 11:03:41 AM
No I think you introduced the atheists virtue aka moral reason for holding to anything namely that it ''works''
Ah, I see where you went wrong.
"Works" does not attach virtue or morals to it unless you really really want to shoehorn those in.
I didn't, you did.
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on April 17, 2023, 11:06:52 AM
Ah, I see where you went wrong.
"Works" does not attach virtue or morals to it unless you really really want to shoehorn those in.
I didn't, you did.
There can be intellectual as well as moral virtue So far you've failed to sell both as far as a lifelong commitment to an atheist life is concerned
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 17, 2023, 11:19:54 AM
There can be intellectual as well as moral virtue So far you've failed to sell both as far as a lifelong commitment to an atheist life is concerned
I didn't realise that I was selling anything.

If you want to go down that route then maybe think on how well you ( and Alan) have managed to sell your brands of religion.
My take on that is that neither of you will be getting an annual bonus paid.
In fact you might even consider looking for another job more suited to your individual talents?
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on April 17, 2023, 04:10:17 PM
I didn't realise that I was selling anything.

If you want to go down that route then maybe think on how well you ( and Alan) have managed to sell your brands of religion.
My take on that is that neither of you will be getting an annual bonus paid.
In fact you might even consider looking for another job more suited to your individual talents?
You are a public evangelical atheist are you not?
I'm not sure you would be a Christian if you were swayed intellectually by any of our arguments. You would need to be convicted by the holy spirit and accept His diagnosis.

It seems to me that atheism is more by way of a purely intellectual position.
Some claim agnosticism with a commitment to atheism.
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 17, 2023, 04:12:08 PM
You are a public evangelical atheist are you not?

Nope.
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 17, 2023, 04:19:37 PM
I'm not sure you would be a Christian if you were swayed intellectually by any of our arguments.
That is correct.
I would be a simpleton if I was swayed by those.
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 17, 2023, 04:21:13 PM
. You would need to be convicted by the holy spirit and accept His diagnosis.
Maybe you or especially Alan could pray that the HS stops Seb-dodging?
Title: Re: Religion and the fear of death.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 17, 2023, 04:22:21 PM

It seems to me that atheism is more by way of a purely intellectual position.
Some claim agnosticism with a commitment to atheism.
Good for you.

I'm sure that some do.